I was never spanked, my mom used to get compliments on how well behaved I was.
My brother was never spanked and he never got in trouble; hes a rather accomplished academic. My little cousins were never spanked and those kids are awesome. I love taking care of them beacuse they are so polite and fun. I don't have any friends who were spanked and we're all doing great.
I think so many people confuse "not spanking" with "being a pussy"
I do.
I think the ability to cope with physical pain is part of a kids education.
I don't mind if people are not macho fighters with the ability to roughhouse it. I appreciate that you may prefer you child to be a scientist. My scientist mate of mine represents my country for kickboxing.
One doesn't have to be exclusive of the other. I don't think children raised without corporal punishment fit into an easy behaviorial stereotypes any more than children raised with corporal punishment do.
Personally I'm non violent. I never fight. I don't suppose I've had a fight in the last quarter century. However I can fight if I want to. My reflexes are conditioned, I can take the pain. This self confidence allows me not only to hang out with all my doctor, professor and scientist mates. Or the fine art crowd, but also the twitchy gangster types, squaddies and drunken builders who kick off every so often. I really value it very highly. A facilitator, a capability that has opened doors for me, increased my options in life.
I can take my wife places a bigger dweeb couldn't take his!
This is an entirely subjective opinion, I don't seek to judge what's right for other parents or other peoples kids. It's all good and it takes all sorts to make a world. Myself, physical capability, self defence, is a part of education that I feel strongly about.
There is more to school than just learning how to get into university.
I was spanked as a kid and don't feel any ill will. I deserved it when it happened. Mostly, the threats were enough. The times the belt or one of those thin wooden paddles from the bounce the ball game came into view, it was quick. Taking my toys was the BEST punishment, because I couldn't live without them=) I remember being forced to pack EVERYTHING I had into boxes. It took all day. Once I was done, my parents asked if I ever wanted to go through it again. I didn't=) So they said, "OK, unpack your stuff". I'm definitely using that one=) I was also left on the side of the highway on a road trip after a major bout of "stop touching me"and "You're on MY side" with my sister. My parents drove away and I believe I was standing there dumb struck. I was the sweetest kid for the rest of the trip. It was when you actually could leave your kid on the side of the road without worrying. Better times.
I'm not sure how I'll handle my kids. They're not old enough yet to understand a spanking. Timeout has worked thus far. Hope I can punish through threats, hehe. Yeah right. Basically a spanking is FINE. Beating is different. I still hate the looks some IDIOTS give you at a store just for raising your voice to your child. I'm seriously going to consider getting in their face one time to telling them, "YOU got a problem?" Probably get sued=) I remember when parents actually stood up for eachother for disciplining your kids. Every parent in the neighborhood was allowed to tell any other kid what they could and couldn't do and we all listened. All the moms and dads trusted each other. Now, if you even look wrong at someone elses kid people have their lawyer on speed dial. Its really sad.
Originally posted by Arndur Originally posted by popinjay What is the overriding action or mechanism that keeps them in line when that fails as well? If you assign chores or work and are still not getting the results you want, what is your next step? Do you assign more things they will either refuse or do half-heartedly?
You spank them, take away stuff, then tell them to do it again. I wasn't really spanked but having stuff taken away does suck and having to do extra to get it back even more. All 3 should be accpectable ways to punish a child.
Again, this assumes there is "stuff" to take. Many lower income and lower middle income kids don't have things to take. Most of them don't have internet access or games. A lot of kids raise themselves due to parent's inability to find some proper parenting techniques.
It's really not an option to assume that people have things, even in other countries around the world where poverty is rampant you don't have a huge crime problem and those parents aren't taking things away at all.
I think you answered it for yourself in a way; you spank if taking stuff doesn't work. Or are you saying it's the other way around because you listed spank first?
I was also left on the side of the highway on a road trip after a major bout of "stop touching me"and "You're on MY side" with my sister.
My parents drove away and I believe I was standing there dumb struck. I was the sweetest kid for the rest of the trip. It was when you actually could leave your kid on the side of the road without worrying. Better times.
This sounds like psychological warfare.
I'm not sure I'd rather give my kids a spanking before doing this. Threatening to pull one's love away and abandonment is really harsh, imo.
This worked for you as you say, but I'm not sure I would ever do this to my children because to me it's bascially saying "You are so bad, that I'd rather not even have you, but would leave you by the side of the road and keep going."
Even though parents come back, the underlying message is still there I think.
I agree with spanking, but not a fit of rage of course. Parents need a time out prior to giving the spanking, and need to do so in a manner that the child understands it will be happening. The system such as making a list for the things the child has done and then you take the list to them and spank them and let them know exactly why they are receiving the spanking, and that the next time they do any of those things again, they may not recieve a spanking at the time they did them, but they will be noted and they will be reciving a spanking for them later.
After the spanking they then need to sit down and discuss what the problems were thoroughly and how they can prevent that from happening again. I was spanked, I had everything taken away from me and only had my bed left at one time, I had been grounded for a year. None of it really woked at the time, it was not until later that these things set in, years later after moving away from my parents.
My parents never really talked things over with me, or discussed things with me, and I think that was the majority of the problem. I was to be seen, not heard in my parents home. They believed in beatings not spanking as most people would consider them. When my parents told me they wee taking my possessions away, I not only did not care I would go to my room gather everything I owned and throw it away myself to save them the trouble. When they told me I was grounded, It made no difference to me anyhow, I mean I worked hard all the time anyways, and even when I wasn;t grounded, I had to do so many chores before I was allowed to do anything that it was impossible for me ever to finish them to go anyways. I was raised by VERY strict and rigid parents. I was not allowed to receive below an A in school without being punished, I was not allowed to even wear shorts or pants until I was older. I was forced to wear dresses to school all the way up to the age of 12. If a boy so much as looked at me, I had to read from the Bible aloud for hours.
All of this though had the opposite effect than what they expected, I mean I wound up leaving at 15 and never returning. There is a big difference between spanking and beatings, and a difference between having rules and being imprisoned.
I agree with spanking, but not beating them violently, and having rules, but not imprisonment.
Here's a fun little question for those who are pro spanking:
Schools are the only institutions in the United States in which striking another person is legal. Corporal punishment is not permitted in prisons, mental hospitals, or the military.
And I still stand by the monkey-see monkey-do; If you smoke, your kids are more likely to smoke, thats a fact. If you yell, your kids will yell. If you play hockey, your kid will want to play hockey
You can't hit your child and expect that to be different.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Here's a fun little question for those who are pro spanking:
Schools are the only institutions in the United States in which striking another person is legal. Corporal punishment is not permitted in prisons, mental hospitals, or the military. And I still stand by the monkey-see monkey-do; If you smoke, your kids are more likely to smoke, thats a fact. If you yell, your kids will yell. If you play hockey, your kid will want to play hockey
You can't hit your child and expect that to be different.
This also has the opposite reaction than you would expect. Children who were beaten, often hated their parents so much for doing that, they never raise a hand to their own children, because they would never want to do that to someone they love. Though they often overcompensate for this, and are then too lax on the child not giving ENOUGH discipline. The key is the balance between discipline and privilege to ensure your children do not grow up to be spoiled brats.
Another example of this is that my mothers parents drank heavily, my parents did not allow alchol in their home, and yet my brothers and sisters drink socially, not everyday like my grandparents, but still drink , even though my parents never drank. My parents were overly strict, yet none of their children are now. Most people I know do not want to be their parents, and they do things just the opposite of what they were taught. Maybe it is the " rebellion factor" , just to prove their own identies and make decisions for themselves they go out of their way to not do things the same way, and this includes not spanking their child because they were spanked. This does not mean that their child then in turn will not spank their children, it may just be the opposite.
Another form of punishment I would never do is make a child do things that aren't traditionally viewed as "punishment" or "bad medicine" in order to make them behave.
I've heard of people who don't spank their kids, but they'll say instead "Okay, you've been a naughty boy. Now go up in your room and do your Algebra." Wtf? That just negatively reinforces that math or Algebra is a punishment and will make the child hate it as they grow. They'll always associated it with a negative.
Same thing with television. Your child was bad, so no T.V. Well, that means that you are postitively reinforcing that television is good, or watching mindless shows is a reward. "No, you can't watch television until you've eaten all your vegetables. What, you're done? Okay, you can go watch South Park."
The worst is the Bible as punishment. The only way I'd ever sentence my child to reading the Bible if they were bad for punishment, was if I was a Jew, Atheist or a Muslim, lol. "Okay, since you don't know how to behave... go read the Bible like those heathens do!" LOL!
I can't imagine being bad, then sent to drudge through the Bible for most kids as a positive thing. All most would get out of that is "If I'm bad, Mommy/Daddy makes me read The Book of Ester." It would be a wonder if they grew up completely hypocritical and with poor morals/values because the message in itself of a religion as punishment is slightly hypocritical.
That's a form of weirdness all in itself. I'd probably make my child read a book on quantum physics if anything, but then again, that reinforces reading itself in a negative way. Or more likely, I'd make a child do exercise like running laps or doing pushups.
The physical pain (lungs, legs, muscles) hits the brain and you don't actually do any hitting, your child gets in shape and gains more discipline. Plus, the police can't arrest you for basically giving corporal punishment without hitting. Now one could say it's just as negative as reading, but I'd rather have smart fat kids, than healthy stupid ones who hate to read and write.
Little Billy: "When I'm bad, I have to read the Bible or math books. I hate reading and math."
Little Tommy: "When I'm bad, I have to run a half a mile. I hate running."
Here's a fun little question for those who are pro spanking:
Schools are the only institutions in the United States in which striking another person is legal. Corporal punishment is not permitted in prisons, mental hospitals, or the military. And I still stand by the monkey-see monkey-do; If you smoke, your kids are more likely to smoke, thats a fact. If you yell, your kids will yell. If you play hockey, your kid will want to play hockey
You can't hit your child and expect that to be different.
This also has the opposite reaction than you would expect. Children who were beaten, often hated their parents so much for doing that, they never raise a hand to their own children, because they would never want to do that to someone they love. Though they often overcompensate for this, and are then too lax on the child not giving ENOUGH discipline. The key is the balance between discipline and privilege to ensure your children do not grow up to be spoiled brats.
Another example of this is that my mothers parents drank heavily, my parents did not allow alchol in their home, and yet my brothers and sisters drink socially, not everyday like my grandparents, but still drink , even though my parents never drank. My parents were overly strict, yet none of their children are now. Most people I know do not want to be their parents, and they do things just the opposite of what they were taught. Maybe it is the " rebellion factor" , just to prove their own identies and make decisions for themselves they go out of their way to not do things the same way, and this includes not spanking their child because they were spanked. This does not mean that their child then in turn will not spank their children, it may just be the opposite.
Oh I know but somebody who didn't believe in spanking wouldn't beat their kids so much they would never do it to their kids.
Aswell, just because its true one way does not mean its true for the converse. Anecdotally I really can't think of anybody who's parents didn't spank but they did...
Then again almost everyone in my grand-parents generation spanked, so thats not really something you'd really start seeing untill my generation starts to spawn.
I wouldn't be willing to say because A can cause B, then its possible B can cause A.
But you will get no argument from me on the rebellion factor; I think everyone has examples of the religious upbringing going super off the other end hating religion or vice versa.
Wow... thats kinda creepy... I've been agreeing with a lot of people lately that I never thought I'd get the chance to agree with :P
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Corporal punishment, legal in 20 states, typically takes the form of "paddling," during which an administrator or teacher hits a child repeatedly on the buttocks with a long wooden board. ACLU and Human Rights Watch interviews found that students with disabilities also suffered many other forms of corporal punishment, including beatings, spanking, slapping, pinching, being dragged across the room, and being thrown to the floor.
The report found that some students were physically abused for conduct related to their disabilities, including students with Tourette syndrome being punished for exhibiting involuntary tics and students with autism being punished for repetitive behaviors such as rocking. In some cases, corporal punishment against students with disabilities led to a worsening of their conditions. For instance, some parents reported that students with autism became violent toward themselves or others following corporal punishment.
"Corporal punishment can leave students feeling helpless, humiliated, and reluctant to return to school," said Farmer. "Physical force is ineffective, violates children's rights, and is especially egregious when used to punish students for their disabilities. More effective discipline, including positive behavioral supports, creates safe classrooms where children are able to learn."
That's a SERIOUS piece of wood! But in contrast, ACLU says NO, Bible says YES:
Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
Comments
I'm still partial to a bit of spanking.
I do.
I think the ability to cope with physical pain is part of a kids education.
I don't mind if people are not macho fighters with the ability to roughhouse it. I appreciate that you may prefer you child to be a scientist. My scientist mate of mine represents my country for kickboxing.
One doesn't have to be exclusive of the other. I don't think children raised without corporal punishment fit into an easy behaviorial stereotypes any more than children raised with corporal punishment do.
Personally I'm non violent. I never fight. I don't suppose I've had a fight in the last quarter century. However I can fight if I want to. My reflexes are conditioned, I can take the pain. This self confidence allows me not only to hang out with all my doctor, professor and scientist mates. Or the fine art crowd, but also the twitchy gangster types, squaddies and drunken builders who kick off every so often. I really value it very highly. A facilitator, a capability that has opened doors for me, increased my options in life.
I can take my wife places a bigger dweeb couldn't take his!
This is an entirely subjective opinion, I don't seek to judge what's right for other parents or other peoples kids. It's all good and it takes all sorts to make a world. Myself, physical capability, self defence, is a part of education that I feel strongly about.
There is more to school than just learning how to get into university.
I was spanked as a kid and don't feel any ill will. I deserved it when it happened. Mostly, the threats were enough. The times the belt or one of those thin wooden paddles from the bounce the ball game came into view, it was quick. Taking my toys was the BEST punishment, because I couldn't live without them=) I remember being forced to pack EVERYTHING I had into boxes. It took all day. Once I was done, my parents asked if I ever wanted to go through it again. I didn't=) So they said, "OK, unpack your stuff". I'm definitely using that one=) I was also left on the side of the highway on a road trip after a major bout of "stop touching me"and "You're on MY side" with my sister. My parents drove away and I believe I was standing there dumb struck. I was the sweetest kid for the rest of the trip. It was when you actually could leave your kid on the side of the road without worrying. Better times.
I'm not sure how I'll handle my kids. They're not old enough yet to understand a spanking. Timeout has worked thus far. Hope I can punish through threats, hehe. Yeah right. Basically a spanking is FINE. Beating is different. I still hate the looks some IDIOTS give you at a store just for raising your voice to your child. I'm seriously going to consider getting in their face one time to telling them, "YOU got a problem?" Probably get sued=) I remember when parents actually stood up for eachother for disciplining your kids. Every parent in the neighborhood was allowed to tell any other kid what they could and couldn't do and we all listened. All the moms and dads trusted each other. Now, if you even look wrong at someone elses kid people have their lawyer on speed dial. Its really sad.
You spank them, take away stuff, then tell them to do it again. I wasn't really spanked but having stuff taken away does suck and having to do extra to get it back even more. All 3 should be accpectable ways to punish a child.
Again, this assumes there is "stuff" to take. Many lower income and lower middle income kids don't have things to take. Most of them don't have internet access or games. A lot of kids raise themselves due to parent's inability to find some proper parenting techniques.
It's really not an option to assume that people have things, even in other countries around the world where poverty is rampant you don't have a huge crime problem and those parents aren't taking things away at all.
I think you answered it for yourself in a way; you spank if taking stuff doesn't work. Or are you saying it's the other way around because you listed spank first?
"TO MICHAEL!"
People start a parenting thread, and that's "worse" than the political thread and the forum sucks.
Clearly, there's not enough "Booger Picking and Eating: Left Index or Right Index finger?" threads for people to participate in here.
Someone quick: make some fart and ta-ta threads please, so the site gets a better rep, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
This sounds like psychological warfare.
I'm not sure I'd rather give my kids a spanking before doing this. Threatening to pull one's love away and abandonment is really harsh, imo.
This worked for you as you say, but I'm not sure I would ever do this to my children because to me it's bascially saying "You are so bad, that I'd rather not even have you, but would leave you by the side of the road and keep going."
Even though parents come back, the underlying message is still there I think.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I agree with spanking, but not a fit of rage of course. Parents need a time out prior to giving the spanking, and need to do so in a manner that the child understands it will be happening. The system such as making a list for the things the child has done and then you take the list to them and spank them and let them know exactly why they are receiving the spanking, and that the next time they do any of those things again, they may not recieve a spanking at the time they did them, but they will be noted and they will be reciving a spanking for them later.
After the spanking they then need to sit down and discuss what the problems were thoroughly and how they can prevent that from happening again. I was spanked, I had everything taken away from me and only had my bed left at one time, I had been grounded for a year. None of it really woked at the time, it was not until later that these things set in, years later after moving away from my parents.
My parents never really talked things over with me, or discussed things with me, and I think that was the majority of the problem. I was to be seen, not heard in my parents home. They believed in beatings not spanking as most people would consider them. When my parents told me they wee taking my possessions away, I not only did not care I would go to my room gather everything I owned and throw it away myself to save them the trouble. When they told me I was grounded, It made no difference to me anyhow, I mean I worked hard all the time anyways, and even when I wasn;t grounded, I had to do so many chores before I was allowed to do anything that it was impossible for me ever to finish them to go anyways. I was raised by VERY strict and rigid parents. I was not allowed to receive below an A in school without being punished, I was not allowed to even wear shorts or pants until I was older. I was forced to wear dresses to school all the way up to the age of 12. If a boy so much as looked at me, I had to read from the Bible aloud for hours.
All of this though had the opposite effect than what they expected, I mean I wound up leaving at 15 and never returning. There is a big difference between spanking and beatings, and a difference between having rules and being imprisoned.
I agree with spanking, but not beating them violently, and having rules, but not imprisonment.
Here's a fun little question for those who are pro spanking:
Schools are the only institutions in the United States in which striking another person is legal. Corporal punishment is not permitted in prisons, mental hospitals, or the military.
And I still stand by the monkey-see monkey-do; If you smoke, your kids are more likely to smoke, thats a fact. If you yell, your kids will yell. If you play hockey, your kid will want to play hockey
You can't hit your child and expect that to be different.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
If a child responds to spanking, they will respond to other methods of discipline.
If a child won't respond to other methods of discipline, they won't respond to spanking.
This also has the opposite reaction than you would expect. Children who were beaten, often hated their parents so much for doing that, they never raise a hand to their own children, because they would never want to do that to someone they love. Though they often overcompensate for this, and are then too lax on the child not giving ENOUGH discipline. The key is the balance between discipline and privilege to ensure your children do not grow up to be spoiled brats.
Another example of this is that my mothers parents drank heavily, my parents did not allow alchol in their home, and yet my brothers and sisters drink socially, not everyday like my grandparents, but still drink , even though my parents never drank. My parents were overly strict, yet none of their children are now. Most people I know do not want to be their parents, and they do things just the opposite of what they were taught. Maybe it is the " rebellion factor" , just to prove their own identies and make decisions for themselves they go out of their way to not do things the same way, and this includes not spanking their child because they were spanked. This does not mean that their child then in turn will not spank their children, it may just be the opposite.
Another form of punishment I would never do is make a child do things that aren't traditionally viewed as "punishment" or "bad medicine" in order to make them behave.
I've heard of people who don't spank their kids, but they'll say instead "Okay, you've been a naughty boy. Now go up in your room and do your Algebra." Wtf? That just negatively reinforces that math or Algebra is a punishment and will make the child hate it as they grow. They'll always associated it with a negative.
Same thing with television. Your child was bad, so no T.V. Well, that means that you are postitively reinforcing that television is good, or watching mindless shows is a reward. "No, you can't watch television until you've eaten all your vegetables. What, you're done? Okay, you can go watch South Park."
The worst is the Bible as punishment. The only way I'd ever sentence my child to reading the Bible if they were bad for punishment, was if I was a Jew, Atheist or a Muslim, lol. "Okay, since you don't know how to behave... go read the Bible like those heathens do!" LOL!
I can't imagine being bad, then sent to drudge through the Bible for most kids as a positive thing. All most would get out of that is "If I'm bad, Mommy/Daddy makes me read The Book of Ester." It would be a wonder if they grew up completely hypocritical and with poor morals/values because the message in itself of a religion as punishment is slightly hypocritical.
That's a form of weirdness all in itself. I'd probably make my child read a book on quantum physics if anything, but then again, that reinforces reading itself in a negative way. Or more likely, I'd make a child do exercise like running laps or doing pushups.
The physical pain (lungs, legs, muscles) hits the brain and you don't actually do any hitting, your child gets in shape and gains more discipline. Plus, the police can't arrest you for basically giving corporal punishment without hitting. Now one could say it's just as negative as reading, but I'd rather have smart fat kids, than healthy stupid ones who hate to read and write.
Little Billy: "When I'm bad, I have to read the Bible or math books. I hate reading and math."
Little Tommy: "When I'm bad, I have to run a half a mile. I hate running."
"TO MICHAEL!"
Television is good.
It makes you smart.
This also has the opposite reaction than you would expect. Children who were beaten, often hated their parents so much for doing that, they never raise a hand to their own children, because they would never want to do that to someone they love. Though they often overcompensate for this, and are then too lax on the child not giving ENOUGH discipline. The key is the balance between discipline and privilege to ensure your children do not grow up to be spoiled brats.
Another example of this is that my mothers parents drank heavily, my parents did not allow alchol in their home, and yet my brothers and sisters drink socially, not everyday like my grandparents, but still drink , even though my parents never drank. My parents were overly strict, yet none of their children are now. Most people I know do not want to be their parents, and they do things just the opposite of what they were taught. Maybe it is the " rebellion factor" , just to prove their own identies and make decisions for themselves they go out of their way to not do things the same way, and this includes not spanking their child because they were spanked. This does not mean that their child then in turn will not spank their children, it may just be the opposite.
Oh I know but somebody who didn't believe in spanking wouldn't beat their kids so much they would never do it to their kids.
Aswell, just because its true one way does not mean its true for the converse. Anecdotally I really can't think of anybody who's parents didn't spank but they did...
Then again almost everyone in my grand-parents generation spanked, so thats not really something you'd really start seeing untill my generation starts to spawn.
I wouldn't be willing to say because A can cause B, then its possible B can cause A.
But you will get no argument from me on the rebellion factor; I think everyone has examples of the religious upbringing going super off the other end hating religion or vice versa.
Wow... thats kinda creepy... I've been agreeing with a lot of people lately that I never thought I'd get the chance to agree with :P
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
US: Students With Disabilities Face Corporal Punishment at Higher Rates- August 10, 2009
That's a SERIOUS piece of wood! But in contrast, ACLU says NO, Bible says YES:
Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
"TO MICHAEL!"
Amen to that! I think if it comes from the bible then it's not bad.