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Case Study: DDO. (Make SWG F2P!)

Greets.

Being a beta player in Turbine's revamp of its dead/dying DDO franchise, I have seen an enormous change in populations and gameplay, and I forsee DDO becoming a very successful F2P MMO in the near future.

What was once was a niche game, with a complex learning curve, is actually now becoming very popular with regular non-PnP players. While it is indeed F2P (which attracts the crowds), the gameplay however is very unique compared to standard "me-too" MMOs and which is what is retaining the masses.

The learning curve (while not as difficult as EVE or Anarchy Online) is forcing/training/molding the newcomers who are naturally interested/inquisitive in the mechanics of the game. While we now see thousands of WoW-players coming in, we have yet to see a 1% rise in spam on channels or even rudeness between groups - as newcomers are assimilated into an existing veteran based society which was already very helpful, mature, and courteous. DDO group mechanics are also such that reliance on each other is always essential - and this perhaps is easing and intergating the newcomers into the existing norms of the DDO populace. (Let's hope this lasts over the long haul.)

Turbine is certainly "milking" the Ca$h-$hop, and have made it so that everyone at some point, will have to purchase itsy-bitsy items here and there, just to progress forward. A mix of Guild Wars + Asian Cash-MMOs model, this will certainly be a huge financial success. DDO had limped along for many years, but the development costs are already covered, the zones coded and complete, the game mechanics have been refined over the years, and servers are stable and fluid - and now finally the cash is now pouring in - by the buckets!

So why do I bring this up?

I see some similarities between DDO and SWG.

SWG has been bleeding/limping along for years. It does not have money pouring in - so development is suffering. Population has always been low. SWG is by far THE most complex compilation of code in the entire MMO universe. (No EVE does NOT even come close to this beast!) The staggering amount of things we can do in SWG is mind-blowing. No other MMO offers so much in complexity, let alone an entirely sandbox environment, with an entirely player-run economy (there are no vendors in SWG selling ANYTHING - only players make/break/sell things - from entire cities to cybernetics and biotech).

Sure NGE happened. Yes we're all pissed. Let's move past that. Even in its current state - which is still a class of its own - by sheer amount of things to do, it offers a lot more than any MMO on this planet.

I, for one, will be sad to see it die when SWToR launches. (Oh, dont get me wrong, I will be first in line to join SWTOR subscription.) What I am saying is it will be sad for such an amazing piece of code to end up being shelved. (We've seen Matrix axed by SOE recently as well. I suspect Planetside will be axed when The Agency comes online - as their faction vs faction player-base might conflict in subscriptions.)

However, till that happens, what I propose is this:

Make SWG F2P following DDO's example financial model.

Sure it brings in the stink of a cash shop - but SOE is already doing that anyway - might as well get SWG to become F2P?

Note that in DDO you *can* essentially reach max level without spending a single penny (infact DDO devs have an internal bet as to who on each server is the 1st player to reach max level without spending cash).

I for one would like to be able to revisit my old dusty haunts in SWG and craft oddities, or just meet strange travellers from other star systems in dim lit smoky cantinas every now and then, without worrying about paying monthly fees.

Oh well.

Comments

  • MazinMazin Member Posts: 640

    You're gonna get flamed :P

    "Amazing piece of code"?

  • efefiaefefia Member Posts: 631

    SWG has more people paying a subscription fee participating in RMT than DDO, not gonna happen.

    ...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.

  • JYCowboyJYCowboy Member UncommonPosts: 652

    I've pondered this since DDO made its announcement.  Its a possibility but not for this year.

  • Baio2kBaio2k Member UncommonPosts: 162

    You didn't give any examples for what makes SWG a good model for cash shop.  

    Most of DDO's cash shop items are in the form of instanced content, that starts at level 3.  SWG has little instanced content and almost all of it as end game.   I mean they already are selling stuff cash stop style, I don't see how they can expand it as well as DDO

  • talismen351talismen351 Member Posts: 1,124

    SWG already has a cash shop...TCG. If ya want any of the new decent items they put in game, you need to blow money on cards and hope you get some decent loot once in a while. And on top of that , they still charge ya a subscription. So why would they go F2P when there are enouph stupid players to pay to play plus pay extra for cards?

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  • ssnautilusssnautilus Member Posts: 373
    Originally posted by Mazin


    You're gonna get flamed :P
    "Amazing piece of code"?

     

    *lol* Perhaps. In reality, most likely its spaghetti-code (ie. layers of code written by so many pass-by coders over the years - thats is a mish-mash of nonsense).

    However, I see it from a programmer's point of view. If I were to even *think* about the amount of things that are exisitng in this game - the sheer amount of objects and numerous functions attached with each, and how the entire universe all gels together (for better or worse) - I'd say flatly state either or both of the following statements:

    "Impossible!"

    "Not in this lifetime!"

    How many MMO's blag/promise this or that features and they never materialize. And how many of those blagged "features" are simply cloned/me-too ones duplicated from other MMOs? Now think how many things we can do right now in SWG that not even an offline game can offer - let alone an online one! (Sure, EVE has a decent (but system-controlled/tainted) economy, and Anarchy Online has some nice gizmos and cybernetics. But neither encompass the sheer scale and scope of things in SWG.)

    If some new sci-fi MMO CEO were to stand at a MMO syposium TODAY and declare that they are duplicating all the current existing features of SWG - they would be laughed out and flamed 10,000% more than Darkfall. Why? See my above 2 statements. No one would believe them. And yet, this beast actually EXISTS today!

    This MMO is infact a (raw) prototype of what a MMO should have. With the right management, it surely CAN be fixed. Issues CAN be addressed, but all the red tape between the powers that be are rendering it impotent.

    And that is why it is indeed a tragedy, and sadly will soon to be put down like a broken horse.

  • ssnautilusssnautilus Member Posts: 373
    Originally posted by Baio2k


    You didn't give any examples for what makes SWG a good model for cash shop.  
    Most of DDO's cash shop items are in the form of instanced content, that starts at level 3.  SWG has little instanced content and almost all of it as end game.   I mean they already are selling stuff cash stop style, I don't see how they can expand it as well as DDO

    Well, off the top of my head, and following in line with DDO's method, here are some possibilities (nothing is written in stone - and everything is open to debate):

    Existing DDO Cash Shop Items                                     

                           Possible integration/options for SWG  
    Adventure packs = Each Zone costs $ (unlocked for entire account)   Each Planets costs $ (unlocked for entire account)  
    Character slots   Hmm.. this might taint the economy...?? (but being f2p means you can do the same with extra accounts anyway, so this is ok).  
    Unlimited Auction House access  

    Crafter-License for operating more than3 vendors

                                    
    Potions   Bacta/Medkits / etc (you dont HAVE to buy these - can buy them off players/vendors ingame - just for emergencies)  
    Hirelings   License to operate Pets / Droids in cities  
     n/a   Extra license for Barker Droids  
     n/a   License to own more than 3 vehicles in datapad.  
     n/a   License to fly in Space  
     n/a   License to mine space asteroids.  

     

    Existing DDO Cash Shop Items        Possible integration/options for SWG
     n/a   License to own more than 3 spaceships in datapad.
     n/a   License to own more than 3 pets in datapad.
     n/a   License to own more than 4 land plots (Yes, 4!).
    Items "Bound to Account" instead of per character   Items "Biolink to Account" instead of per character
    Shared (seperate) Bank space (20 items) for Bound-to-Account item sharing. (Cannot mail bound items).   Shared (seperate) Bank space (100 items) for Biolinked-to-Account item sharing. (Cannot mail biolinked items).
    (Unlimited) Mailing with item attachments option.   (Unlimited) Mailing with item attachments option.
     n/a   COD Mail Sales option.
     n/a   License to run for Politician (ie become mayor/own city).
    Guild Charter   Guild Charter
    Teleporting items   Crafted CAMP Shuttle Beacon operating license.
     n/a   Unlimited usage to shuttles - else limited to 10/day.
    Resurrrection shrine / rez items.   Crafted Resurection CAMP thingy (forget the name)
    Level sigils (very clever) but they drop as quest rewards well. Caps every 4 levels. NOT a rare drop.    Levelling certificate every 20 levels. Can drop via Terminal/Legacy/etc quest rewards. NOT a rare drop.
     Full Respecs (coming)    Profession changes.

     Well, thats just a start. Lots more possibilities.

    As you can see NOTHING (perhaps the planets) is mandatory for people to purchase. All F2P players can level up and play very well without any real issues. We gain a VERY healthy population and chances are, people WILL purchase more than the standard limits anyway just to be 1337.

    The above method (similar to Turbine policy) is not tyrannical, nor mandatory, and leaves room to breathe and function normally.

    Feel free to tweak the ideas presented.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Why would soe remove the subscription fee?  They have already proven they keep the subscription fee, remove content the current devs create and sell right back to the players for an additional fee through on of their various microtransaction efforts.

    All your idea will turn do is give soe more ideas of how to add more RMT on top of a subscription fee that is offering less and less.

  • ssnautilusssnautilus Member Posts: 373
    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Why would soe remove the subscription fee?  They have already proven they keep the subscription fee, remove content the current devs create and sell right back to the players for an additional fee through on of their various microtransaction efforts.
    All your idea will turn do is give soe more ideas of how to add more RMT on top of a subscription fee that is offering less and less.

     

    Because subs will evaporate and SWG will die when KOTOR launches. SOE has already hinted about the possibility of the "sunset clause" a while back.

    SWG is currently limping mostly offering a "value added service" on SOE Station Access subs - much like VG/Planetside/EQ/EQ2, etc. They are all limping. New MMO's like DCUO, Agency, and Freerealms are the Showcase newercomers competing with the same subscriberbase - so older/less popular ones will most likely die like MxO did. Besides we all know Lucas is calling the real shots when it comes to Star Wars universe.

    Being F2P gives it a possible chance to survive (and perhaps even succeed) alongside KOTOR. If DDO can turn things around, perhaps SWG can as well.

  • MurdusMurdus Member UncommonPosts: 698
    Originally posted by ssnautilus


    Greets.
    Being a beta player in Turbine's revamp of its dead/dying DDO franchise,

     

    i stopped reading there to quote this and flame you.

     

    what?

  • mokoleusmokoleus Member Posts: 142

    although i might re-install SWG if it went f2p, i'd subscribe in a instant if they got rid of the NGE. infact, i'm pretty sure my entire guild might come back, if they got rid of the NGE. i would pay extra a month, to play on a pre nge server.... hell even with the combat upgrade..... 

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by ssnautilus

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    Why would soe remove the subscription fee?  They have already proven they keep the subscription fee, remove content the current devs create and sell right back to the players for an additional fee through on of their various microtransaction efforts.
    All your idea will turn do is give soe more ideas of how to add more RMT on top of a subscription fee that is offering less and less.

     

    Because subs will evaporate and SWG will die when KOTOR launches. SOE has already hinted about the possibility of the "sunset clause" a while back.

    SWG is currently limping mostly offering a "value added service" on SOE Station Access subs - much like VG/Planetside/EQ/EQ2, etc. They are all limping. New MMO's like DCUO, Agency, and Freerealms are the Showcase newercomers competing with the same subscriberbase - so older/less popular ones will most likely die like MxO did. Besides we all know Lucas is calling the real shots when it comes to Star Wars universe.

    Being F2P gives it a possible chance to survive (and perhaps even succeed) alongside KOTOR. If DDO can turn things around, perhaps SWG can as well.

    I'm not disagreeing with where the game is heading and your solution might be a viable alternative to breathing some sort of life into swg.  It might be a little premature to point to DDO as a solid case example of turning a game around just yet. 

    Beyond that there are a few snags in your plan. 

    1) soe has already tried to revamp this game twice in hopes getting a new potential player base to come play.  Just the potential of reviving the ugly press surrounding swg once again is a very strong deterrent for both LA and SOE.  Each company has new mmos coming out and the last thing they need is bad images of mmo mismanagement hovering over their future mmos.

    2) something like this would require a pretty large investment of revenue and development time.   Neither of which I think soe is willing to invest in a game that far past its prime.  Not to mention this would be the 3rd large revamp of the game. 

     

    I don't think either company is terribly concerned with the future of this game anymore.   SWG is never going to become a game that generates serious revenue again. 

  • ssnautilusssnautilus Member Posts: 373
    Originally posted by Daffid011


    I'm not disagreeing with where the game is heading and your solution might be a viable alternative to breathing some sort of life into swg.  It might be a little premature to point to DDO as a solid case example of turning a game around just yet. 
    Beyond that there are a few snags in your plan.
    1) soe has already tried to revamp this game twice in hopes getting a new potential player base to come play.  Just the potential of reviving the ugly press surrounding swg once again is a very strong deterrent for both LA and SOE.  Each company has new mmos coming out and the last thing they need is bad images of mmo mismanagement hovering over their future mmos.
    2) something like this would require a pretty large investment of revenue and development time.   Neither of which I think soe is willing to invest in a game that far past its prime.  Not to mention this would be the 3rd large revamp of the game. 
    I don't think either company is terribly concerned with the future of this game anymore.   SWG is never going to become a game that generates serious revenue again. 

     

    Sadly, I must agree with what you are saying on all counts. For that is most likely the reality, that they have NO INTENTION to survive, and such is the fate for SWG - to be lost to the world forever - to be longed for forever as the perfect-MMO-that-could-have-been - be it a sour or sweet memory - it will become a whisper in some obscure and dusty passage of Wikipedia.

    But there is no question in my mind (assuming [in my virtual mind] *IF* I was leading the project) that it CAN be revived and restored as a respectable competitor. I'd give my right arm (and replace it with a cybernetic one) to be given full reign (no Lucas strings attached - except to stick to the lore) and to compete head to head with KOTOR (or any other MMO). So many possibilities! Win or lose, blood in my mouth, what a glorious battle that would be!

     

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Why would the Smed ever give up money he is making now, when he is getting both RMT and monthly subscription $$$? The bastard is way too greedy for that....

    I will grant you that the game is at an average F2P level in terms of quality, but Smed has been RMTing all of the SOE games lately, in an effort to not get fired.

     

     

  • MazinMazin Member Posts: 640
    Originally posted by Burntvet


    Why would the Smed ever give up money he is making now, when he is getting both RMT and monthly subscription $$$? The bastard is way too greedy for that....
    I will grant you that the game is at an average F2P level in terms of quality, but Smed has been RMTing all of the SOE games lately, in an effort to not get fired.
     
     

     

    Eventually Smed will figure out that he can charge a real money tax on the amount of credits you have in game.  Alright you have 500 million credits in game, you owe me $50 a month in taxes a month on that plus your $15 sub plus TCG.

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