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SOE going overboard with forum Modds?
BullseyeArc1
Member UncommonPosts: 410
You get used to the forums at SOE, they have always have had more aggresive moderation than most boards. Everything has to be PG-13 or not negative towards SOE and thier games. That being said Im noticing much more modd activitey with posts. They also just started to moderate the GAT, that used to be the refuge for off subject posting, but not anymore. Some players like the forums more than the game these days, is it smart to start making those players mad also SOE?
Comments
The new 'Community Relations Manager' has a major Napolean complex. Ever since his initial meltdown, they have been extra diligent in scrubbing the OBoards. It is also the reason TUX was removed as the Rebel Senator and banned, he was "excessively negative" about the direction the development of the game is going.
There was also a major scrubbing of the last producer's letter, as all the posts that weren't of the 'We love you! You were the best!' nature were deleted.
They are making the same mistake they made after the NGE was inflicted on the playerbase. They think they can erase any dissent and the playerbase's unrest with the way things are will go away. It doesn't help that the new CR manager is so thin skinned that he feels any negative post about the game is a personal attack on him. It doesn't help matters any that his personal life is so empty that he spends the majority of every day reading the OBoards.
BINGO!
And to answer the OP, no...it's a foolish thing to do. TBH, the SWG forums are tame in comparison to so many others I've been to. They risk pissing off far too many players with their crackdown attitude. I actually know a player that was banned because Draakull THOUGHT they had used the word "tard"...Draakull made sure he lectured the player on the fact that 'real' retards could take offense. He lifted his pathetic ban after the player pointed out they HADN'T used the word...they had simple quoted another player and were criticising the person who had used it.
I think the forum crackdown has been great, we can once again have constructive discussions on the forum without having to deal with spam, trolling and personal attacks.
The forums are like Don't Mention Pre CU or you get banned. Like Germany with WW1 and WW2 it never happened!
Of course you do Badger!
I dont knock that you love the game, I think that's great to be honest, your not in limbo lurking for something to feel your free time.
But damn man SOE/SWG has to have done something in the past you didn't agree with.
And to answer the OP, no...it's a foolish thing to do. TBH, the SWG forums are tame in comparison to so many others I've been to. They risk pissing off far too many players with their crackdown attitude. I actually know a player that was banned because Draakull THOUGHT they had used the word "tard"...Draakull made sure he lectured the player on the fact that 'real' retards could take offense. He lifted his pathetic ban after the player pointed out they HADN'T used the word...they had simple quoted another player and were criticising the person who had used it.
I see alot of that lately, I even got perma banned myself and that's my first ever ban/warning/suspension on the internets! The reason was also "excessively negative", it wasn't even a personal attack either. I get the feeling this is his first job interacting with customers/players, and he's doing a really bad job at it, and his english skills isn't the brightest since some of his posts take a few times to read to understand what he's saying.
Why would soe be concerned with pissing off the customers with a forum ban? I'm pretty sure soe knows the current swg player isn't going anywhere regardless of what they do.
Yes, loads, and they continue to do things I don't agree with. Almost anyone SWG forum user will tell you, just mention "unattended macroing" to me and I will likely go crazy as I spill forth a torrent of SoE related abuse about thier current handling of the problem.
You can add the 180 turnaround on implementing the Free CTS over putting in essential community tools as well.
Currently their failing to implement server side spam filtering is what I am focusing on... I can rant all day on these topics, oh and add the NGE deleting a profession that SoE allowed me to work hard on improving as a correspondent for six months... that was a good one, but it was a long time ago and I ended up making sure you could play Pistoleer via Smuggler expertise so I'm done with that.
I just deal with the anger these things caused me differently to others, in life too I have a habit of trying to take some of the reponsibilty to prevent further damage when things go bad. The more messed up a situation is, the more likely I am to get involved... that's just me.
SoE have made some utterly disasterous mistakes in the past, I like to hang around and try to ensure they don't do any more things that negatively impact my friends playing SWG, and that they address the mistakes they have already made, and it seems to work to a certain extent.
Critism is just noise if it isn't constructive and effective, I see myself as highly critical of SoE because I know all the horrors that lurk under the hood of this game and I bring them to light. Most of the discussions you have here about things that SoE have done wrong in SWG just don't match with my own priorities for what needs to be done, so you rarely see this side of me.
Nice to know your human
Wait until Draakass bans you for something you didn't do Badger...bookmark this thread and report back then
SoE may be able to **edit** up Star Wars, but even they can't end trolling in forums. Spam, fine...personal attacks, fine line here. A LOTTA players enjoy the forum drama and play for that reason. There was once a day where Rebs and Imps flamed all **edit**ing day. Did they "really" hate each other? Hell no! But it made the in-game fighting that **edit** much better!
Hey, maybe you can get "We are the World" song added as a zombie slayer reward...maybe a /holdhands emote too?! Heck...reward players GCW points for /holdhand'ing with the enemy rather than resorting to "attacks"?!
LOL! Priceless. Personal attacks and flaming will always be part of the O-boards. That cesspool has had heavy-handed, biased moeration for a long time and it will continue, so no change there. You see most negative feedback from players or views that do not fall in line with yours as spam or trolling (you have said as much in other responses). So now there is a tougher crackdown on those who dare to speak the truth regarding the game's many issues and the questionable business tactics of $OE, and you support this. Yet the fanbois and trolls that personally flame or troll anyone who dares to say anything negative about $OE continue do so with impunity over and over again. This is standard $OE operations.
Wait until Draakass bans you for something you didn't do Badger...bookmark this thread and report back then
SoE may be able to **edit** up Star Wars, but even they can't end trolling in forums. Spam, fine...personal attacks, fine line here. A LOTTA players enjoy the forum drama and play for that reason. There was once a day where Rebs and Imps flamed all **edit**ing day. Did they "really" hate each other? Hell no! But it made the in-game fighting that **edit** much better!
Hey, maybe you can get "We are the World" song added as a zombie slayer reward...maybe a /holdhands emote too?! Heck...reward players GCW points for /holdhand'ing with the enemy rather than resorting to "attacks"?!
Exactly, we all obviously want a clean environment on the forums but that's just dreaming, everywhere you go there'll be flames, troll baiting and the likes and mods are responsible for addressing those, however the SOE mods has gone overboard with banning people that dare say something negative about the game ever since Draakull was added to the staff, SOE should take that negative criticism into making the game better but knowing that company they rather not. As Smedley said 3 years ago, "We're doing just fine" after a plunge of lost players.
The OBoards are just as bad as they ever were. The trolls are still there. The negativity is still there. There are very few threads that I would consider constructive or that stay constructive for very long without the trolls moving in. Anyone can read the forums and judge for thenselves.
dont worry if players would rather post then play smed will just nge the forums!
Does anyone know if Smed's wife is Asian? I ask because this guy has to be married to a relative of a Sony higher up, there is simply no way that EQ1 made them so much money they would keep putting up with his crap. It is truly astounding how absolutely bad someone can be at their job and not get fired or even moved for it, I've heard the guy talk and he doesn't seem to have the gift of gab to convince people that he isn't doing as bad a job as he is. He has the backing of maybe the worlds largest entertainment conglomerate in Sony and look at his track record with it, SOE certainly has more failures overall than successes and even the successes hardly stand out as the best the industry has to offer.
EQ1 innovative and probably one of the first to recieve commercial success on a large scale but as I hear it there were better mmo's than even that for some of the hardcore types (I didn't play mmo's around the time of EQ1 so my knowledge is limited as to what else was around then but I've read posts where people made suggestions that EQ1 was the wow of it's day in that there were better games just not more well known),SWG which let's face it has always had it's share of problems but what is astonishing is that so many of us could get hooked by it then they NGE it we all know the rest.
Vanguard might be a decent game now but they angered so many from the start that it will never see any amount of success or pass as anything more than another niche game.
MXO current state speaks for itself.
POTBS another uninspiringoffering that angered as many as it pleased.
I've said it before and will say it again some people just love to bash the big dog on the block but not me I like SONY especially considering they have the ability financially to give the public what they want and to make the kinds of changes that games like AOC and DF can only dream of but how can they not see that this guy in this position will never be able to make that happen.
And TUX Edward Smith I think would be appaled by being compared to this guy.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Does anyone know if Smed's wife is Asian? I ask because this guy has to be married to a relative of a Sony higher up, there is simply no way that EQ1 made them so much money they would keep putting up with his crap. It is truly astounding how absolutely bad someone can be at their job and not get fired or even moved for it, I've heard the guy talk and he doesn't seem to have the gift of gab to convince people that he isn't doing as bad a job as he is. He has the backing of maybe the worlds largest entertainment conglomerate in Sony and look at his track record with it, SOE certainly has more failures overall than successes and even the successes hardly stand out as the best the industry has to offer. Vanguard might be a decent game now but they angered so many from the start that it will never see any amount of success or pass as anything more than another niche game.
And TUX Edward Smith I think would be appaled by being compared to this guy.
Ya know, that's a great question. Smedly has obviously done some things right in his life, no doubt about that. You don't get to a level he is at without some success...but...at what point do you realize that the guy just isn't capable of running an MMO? Vanguard, EQ, MXO, SWG, PotBS (Pirates lol), Free Realms (Toon Town meets WoW) and soon, DC Online?!
DC Online is one I think will turn out to be another stone for them. SoE is going after CoH/CoV...a game that has a solid foothold in the superhero genre, and they're again doing it with a license that, while it lends some credibility to the title, also comes with heavy regulations and limits to what they can do (sound familiar?).
Smed may have been the industries go-to-guy at one point, but I think he's lost touch with who his customers are...when's the last time he posted on the SWG forums? Any forums? He simply seem doesn't do the research that he once had to have done...the products he develops directly reflect this disconnect IMO.
Captain Smith's ancestors have already contacted me...they're filing a defamation lawsuit against me for the comparison :P
Virrago is usually the one that hands out my bans, and I've had a few. I can safely say I deserved every one and was very lucky to not be perma-banned.
Forum drama is cool, but it can be dramatic without making it personal.
Virrago is usually the one that hands out my bans, and I've had a few. I can safely say I deserved every one and was very lucky to not be perma-banned.
Forum drama is cool, but it can be dramatic without making it personal.
LOL, that reminds me of something I've seen from a few of the mods...they like to say "Virrago would ban his own mother"...to which I always reply "So? Proves he's an ass...nothing more". And who knows...maybe his Mom is a real bitch.
I agree, there's a fine line between drama and personal attacks...but any mod or CRM NEEDS to know the difference. Flaming isn't "always" bad and is often misread. In MANY cases, forum drama motivates players to log in and play, even if it is just to kick the **edit** outta someone. I've seen it countless times with guildwars and PvP.
You bring up a great point here, but Smedley does post on forums and also give interviews with game sites and game conventions quite often. The problem is that he never talks about games and what makes them fun. All, and I mean all, he talks about is micro transactions, revenue models and demographics. Find any article over the last several years and see what I mean. He can barely be bothered to pay lip service to entertainment or enjoyment any more. However ask a question about money and he can't shut up.
He is so far removed from the process of actually making a game fun as a result of this and that seems to be the corporate culture now. Almost every giant blunder in soe history directly relates back to decisions that were made based on financial speculation as opposed to game design principles. That is the culture of soe now combined with the arrogance of sony corp on top of it and that is why they are where they are now.
Frankly he doesn't post on his own forums anymore, becasue he doesn't care about what his customers think with one exception. He only posts when there is something threatening revenue or they are trying to increase revenue via RMT. He usually has to preface the post with "I know this is going to be controversial....", but otherwise he just doesn't care.
www.gdcaustin.com/conference/keynotes.html
Just for an example of what I was talking about above. Here is a link to Smeds keynote speech and the game developers conference. Read what he is going to be talking about. Marketing, money, marketing, focus groups, retail distribution, etc. I love the line about "how developers can re-educate their teams to move from stagnant and dated MMO design toward mass market success." Yeah, real he is a real success story.
Now look at the next keynote speaks (blizzard) and what they are going to talk about.
See the drastic difference in what each companies leadership talks about. See which one is a mass marketing success and the other is laying off staff and losing studio heads.
Hmmm...this, along with your following link, were quite interesting reads and I think your analysis is spot on. John seems to have stopped caring about the customer and appears to be focused solely on the $ - which is just a small part of running a successful business.
Do you think that the partnership with Sony may have done more harm than good for him (and in turn, SWG)? Do you think Smed might be more focused on the customer if he didn't have the backing and name of Sony behind him?
Would Star Wars Galaxies be run the same if it were licensed by Verant Interactive Inc., rather than SoE? Sure, they're the same now, but the name Sony carries a certain amount of brand loyalty and name recognition that Verant Interactive Inc. just doesn't have.
Contrast SoE's game development and focus with that of Blizzard Entertainment. I've never player WoW (nor will I). How can a no-name company like Blizzard Entertainment deliver a game and content that keeps millions of players active, subscribed and happy, while Sony Online can't have more than 5000 subscribers to the largest name in all of marketing - Star Wars?
Leadership would seem to be the obvious answer...but that doesn't explain how a game like "Everquest" could still be going when it's being run by the same company that can't seem to make Star Wars work...hell, authors can write about **edit**ing Wookiee zombies and sell their **edit**ty books, but a game based off of the same name is one disappointment after another. Can it all boil down to JUST leadership? Or is there a "passion" there for Everquest that just has never been there for Star Wars?
Sony is in big trouble period. They have a great brand name, but you can get about the same quality now for a lower price. Why buy a Sony for 3k when you can get a Samsung for 2k? Same can be said for everything Sony is selling, thier is a competitor that can now provide almost the same quality at a cheaper price. Downsizing at SOE is just a symptom of a bad economy and the times we live in.
Things are pretty bad all around for gaming companys, compairing anyone to a fluke like Blizzard just isnt fair. I doubt they really know why they made it big, its like a movie, not even the people making it can tell if its going to bomb or flurish. Me I think they appealled to the general public. Thats mainly why SWG never made it past its first year, the game started dieing in the first few months, people dropped out due to; this isnt a easy game. SWG had a big peak the first few months then it dropped to the nitch market it appealed to.
The 200k+ isnt what SOE is looking for, a big company like SOE needs alot more than that for it to be a success. A few million dollars a year isnt going to pay for the second generation of mmos that they are developing over at SOE. Lets hope that Smed has learned from the mistakes and will not make the same ones with the next wave of mmos.
I'm not sure I would call wow a fluke considering blizzards track record. There is a reason they have multiple game franchises in the best selling software lists, so I'm sure they knew what they were doing when they created wow. To the degree it is now, no, but that is a result of such weak competition right now more than anything else. There should be far more games competing for top honors than just one run away success.
Which is somewhat related to this thread and how soe conducts itself as a company. If you really want to point out flukes it would be everquest since soe has since then not come anywhere close to its success. Maybe treating their customers like shit and chasing away the people who actually showed talent making their games hasn't been such a good formula so far. After ten years in the industry I don't think it is just a result of recent economic trends.
My impressions of John Smedley from Fan Faire are simular to what posters here say. His eye is on the money making potential for SOE games a great percent of the time. If he shows a passion for any of the SOE games it would be only those he plays with his kids. That leaves Free Realms which all speak proudly of.
I would say Smed has moved on to another demographic, personally. He can not relate to the average MMO demographic of single 18-35 males with his responciblities and maturity. By nature of his job, he is forced to concentrate on the business than the fun. He has no hands on in the dev department but pushes the papers that make the games.
To the posters questioning the whole Star Wars Galaxies suffering in the relationship with SOE, yes and Smed has addmitted as much. In brief, in an early interview on DCUO, he said working with Jim Lee has been a dream come true in IP relationships for MMO development. Jim is/was a EQ vet and came at the project with resonable understandings unlike other IP holders. At that time, other IP holders would have been Warner for MXO and Lucas Arts for SWG.
There is great apathy in developing SWG among the team as witnessed by Jeff Freeman's posts. "Doing a job and getting a paycheck" in an attitude probably not limited to just him. One of the guys responcible for the Zombie Infestation being added to SWG is now leaving, Chris Fields (Dot). He has made his mark on the game and can now take on other projects at SOE. SWG is a stepping stone, much like Customer Service, in advancing at SOE. Blix moved up last year as others have proven themselves as well.
Smed may not code the actual gameplay, but being the president I'm sure he is pretty invovled in the overall direction of the games in his company. That is why they are all shifting to micro transaction, rmt, virtual card sales, etc. The focus has changed from creating game to one of creating products based on revenue models. That is the direct result of his passion with the eastern market model combined with his lack of concern for the playerbase. The passion from the leadership is no longer about making great games, because his lust for "changing the market" trumps everything else.
As for the comments about "the other IP holder", the same problems with swg were seen repeated many times in their other mmos. None to the degree of swg, but they were still the same problems. Again this is the culture of the company stemming from the top on down.
Also I doubt the apathy was alone at swg. I doubt anyone is excited working on planetside, eqoa, eq-mac, mxo, vanguard, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think every one of their mmos has lost or changed producer/directors over the last two years. I've heard DCU has undergone several senior changes already. The seniors at the seattle studio making the agency have left soe recently. Something is wrong at soe and I think it comes directly from the top.