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Bad decision to get away from open pvp sandbox full loot.

RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666

 

When i 1st heard about fallen earth, i thought it was the game that could replace darkfall online and compute vs mortal online.

After i checked their forum, i made a post with some question. I heard that it was not a sandbox game, i heard that it was pve over pvp and 1/3 zone of the whole world is where you can pvp only. Just like the wildness from runescape, but without full loot. So pvp in that game will be a grind like wow or a quake war.

I think this game will stay at a low number of subs. Its a game for 18+ so dont expect kids to play. You knew that most of the followers would be aldult so why dont you want to follow the old days?

If you make a 18+ mmorpg relate for mature, the rules is to make it a sandbox world, full loot and open pvp. Without that, kids wont even play it because their parents wont buy it for them. The adult wont play it because they are too hold to go on. They want the same fun was before and me either.  And when kids will be 18+, they would be too old to play the same kind of mmorpg so they would want to try something else like mortal online or darkfall online. Fallen earth, you going down.

About me, i never played UO in my life or archeron call and eve online, but i did try  Darkfall online. At the moment, its the best mmorpg out there, but since its not a rich company, there is a lot of problem and that kept me away from that game. Because of that, i dont play mmorpg anymore.

So with that faq, i believe that once an open pvp sandbox full loot game without glitch, fast paced enough, to date will be out, i think this game will be very popular and darkfall online is already doing good with their subs.

I still love you fallout 3.

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Comments

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462

    Well, I had to kind of struggle through your post, but I think I got the main point.

    1) You played DF. But not any of the older MMOs, like UO or AC. Okay.

    2) 18+ does not equal mature. In many cases, it's just the opposite (see Age of Conan). You also try to relate "mature", or 18+, to sandbox environments only. Well, most people who play WoW, which is not a sandbox, are over 18 (how old they may act is irrelevant - it's a fact). Sandbox is a niche genre, which is why Darkfall only has a small number of subs.

    3) Check out Earthrise. It's the quiet, pleasant surprise that no one is talking about. If they pull it off, I think it'll be better than both MO and Darkfall.

    I never really had an interest in this game, but I don't mind this kind of design decision. Just me, though.

    image

  • KrayzjoelKrayzjoel Member Posts: 906

    Darkfall online might be holding on at best sub wise. Full loot pvp isnt the best way to go business-wise as it it is a niche market only. This is probrobly why the makers of Fallen Earth made this decision. Maybe they could have full loot pvp server along with the other servers.

    Most of the people I know including myself love pvp but not full loot pvp, but that doesnt mean i wouldnt try it out.  

    Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
    Playing EVE Online and AOC.
    Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Full loot pvp is awful for business.  The previous poster summed it up nicely.

    30
  • tiamat1972tiamat1972 Member UncommonPosts: 4

    @ OP:

    Sorry, but you're really just 18 years old? How do you know what mature people wanna play?

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666

    You guys are right, Mature players play wow, war or other wow clones. The problem is that earth rise will be just like them, but the only different is that it will be a shooter. So the only way it can succeed is if it can compete with the other wow clones.

    When mortal online will come out, a lot of players will play it because it will be the most different mmorpg. Plus, there is no grind if you readed about it. You max in 2 weeks and do what ever you want after. For the players who dont like pvp, dont worry, there is a perfect flagging system done way better then darkfall online.

    At the end of the day or year for an mmorpg since the long term is what its all about, fallen earth will have to keep up on adding content like new dungeons and dungeons and dungeons and dungeons.What else? If they dont update too fast and we know they are not rich like wow to update that fast, the power lvl players, the players who buy the game early will quit early just after they finish to do all the quest they can do. An other problem is that in those pve focus games, some want to grind. Adding more content add more grind. Newbs will get sick of grinding while the others will keep up. If the devs update too fast or are not too fast, newbs will swtich game. ubers will also swtich game to play a game with more content.

    For earth rise, i dont see pvp a way to keep players playing for ever. thats what an mmorpg is about. Not getting the most subscribers possible for the 1st months, but keep them in the game for ever. Age of conan had a lot of subs at the beggining and dropped to 70k. What if they still dropping.

    Most of them might go back to wow or other clones. Because once fallen earth is not better, they will go back to a better one.

    Most of the DF players will join MO because i see most of them in the MO foruma already. A game like MO dont need to add dungeons after dungeons after dungeons or whatever since we the players update the game. Politic , war, what ever.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    Full loot pvp is awful for business.  The previous poster summed it up nicely.

     

    EVE disproved this statement.  full loot when done right has been successful.  its just done wrong most of the time.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061
    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    Full loot pvp is awful for business.  The previous poster summed it up nicely.

     

    EVE disproved this statement.  full loot when done right has been successful.  its just done wrong most of the time.

     

    Nobody is aiming for what EVE did. The game started at way below 50k subs and has slowly but steadily gained subscribers. Seems most decision makers are aiming for the 'WoW jackpot', which is extremely difficult and unlikely for most games to accomplish.

  • SpacehappySpacehappy Member Posts: 8

    To be honest if this game was full loot pvp I would not go near it, or if it was open world pvp I would also give it a wide berth. Personally I like to pvp when I want to, not be forced into it. I suck at pvp and i'm really glad that they made pvp optional in this game by telling you if you enter xxx zone you will be flagged when you come across a pvp area. As for low subs ect, well if they were really intrested in chasing high subs to compare with other games they would be out there making promises they could not keep like the last lot of so called hardcore pvp games did, look where that got those games.

    There is nothing in the dark that's not there in the light.

  • DomoclusDomoclus Member Posts: 28

    Heh, sounds like STALKER is more of an RPG than any of  the carebear MMORPGs on the market today. It allowed for full loot, and still I hardly ever picked up anything other than bullets from enemies, simply because I couldn't carry it all. Same with the original Fallouts, it would never be a problem to lose your possessions in a setting like, because one could always get a cheap shotgun by breaking into someone's house, then team up with other losers just like him and raid the nearest police station.

    If FE takes WoW's and others' approach and turns collecting fancy items into the main motivation to keep playing, then I'm gonna wait for detailed reviews before considering this game. I refuse to play any game for a false sense of achievement and security, but rather for excitement and for a chance to get involved in sticky situations which I would avoid at all costs in real life.

     

    P.S. Also, I believe that "PVP zoning", disproportionate high level/better items advantage, and lack of adequate death penalty (e.g. losing one's items) only encourages senseless player killing. The problem with modern RPGs is because they're trying to make players feel more comfortable in them than in real world (no risks, no dangers, no death, etc.) - an approach which works, but once every single game is that way than only top dogs with biggest budgets (WoW) will survive.

  • kahulbanekahulbane Member Posts: 73

    I really want to comment more heavily here, but I cannot...



    What I can say is the w()w clone thing is another misused word. As it has been discussed.



    FE is not a wow clone, even with or without limited PVP. There are aspects of the game that will keep it going.



    On that note, all this judging of MMolg's b4 they are even out is nutz... to read something in a FAQ and rant about it, without even playing anything to base it on is, well weak.



    If you think it is a bad thing to have or not have full l()()t, then go to that game's forum and post... how do you think it got to where it is now in the Beta? Why do you think AoC changed so much before it was released...? AoC was allot better in many ways, but the peeps in the forums and in the beta won... In the end they (the producers and devs) only wanted to make money, so everything was changed, and the features they left in suffered for it...



    There are so many games out there now; all are so much alike... It’s not like in the day of Meridian 59 and UO and EQ...

    So if you don’t like it, play something else. Oh wait... it’s not out yet... so you don’t know how the pve/pvp mechanics work... so we cannot really make a call.

    Sandbox games are hard for some people to get into. And Devs tend to avoid them. They have little in the way of quest, and you (the player) are left up to your own devices to occupy yourself and grow. There have been a few that did this well, but ended up putting in more content, as the masses wanted it.



    A sandbox game is just that, it is a server you log in to, and well, it’s like walking out your front door and getting a job... there you go... here is you starter cloths and a pen, good luck. No hand holding and guiding.



    I play EvE, WWII-online (real pvp, no loot), and W()W (sometimes) on PVP only servers. Full loot means little to me as a previous poster pointed out. In EvE, if I win a fight, I rarely take everything, if anything; your (avatar’s) life was enough.

    I’m not saying that I have not taken anything from my kills, I have, I always have, in UO, and every game that let me... but I cannot remember the last time I took everything.



    No flagging system is perfect, hell in Meridian 59 during a GM event; I hit a guy and was labeled a criminal... I hit him 1 time, maybe twice, there were 100's of critters and damn near as many players, it was almost imposable not to hit anyone... but at that point peeps could hit me for free... not cool but it was what it it was...



    I wish you luck (thread starter) in your sorrow filled quest to find the new great MMO, as I feel, that day has come and gone; for now. As the best and great were already done.

     

    Pain is the little thing that reminds us we are alive.
    Wisdom is what's left after we've run out of personal opinions.

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  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259
    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    Full loot pvp is awful for business.  The previous poster summed it up nicely.

     

    EVE disproved this statement.  full loot when done right has been successful.  its just done wrong most of the time.

     

     I was going to disagree because Eve's PvP is just awful, but regarding full loot, I do have to agree- that part works well.

  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259
    Originally posted by Spacehappy


    To be honest if this game was full loot pvp I would not go near it, or if it was open world pvp I would also give it a wide berth. Personally I like to pvp when I want to, not be forced into it. I suck at pvp and i'm really glad that they made pvp optional in this game by telling you if you enter xxx zone you will be flagged when you come across a pvp area. As for low subs ect, well if they were really intrested in chasing high subs to compare with other games they would be out there making promises they could not keep like the last lot of so called hardcore pvp games did, look where that got those games.

     

    I think they are doing this right. I was excited about Mortal Online until I realized that they have no counters to rejects who will stand by spawn points knifing people of their own faction for the lint in their pockets.

    And yes, someone has done that to me - when I logged into an EQ1 PvP server for the very first time, ever. Killed a brand-new level 1 char over and over again at the spawn point. For the lint in his pockets (2-3 copper).

  • neoterrarneoterrar Member Posts: 512

    Hmm, I don't think Fallen Earth was ever open pvp/sandbox/full loot or even considered it.

    It's a typical theme park in a post-apoc setting.

    If you want post-apoc with full loot/pvp look at Earthrise. Not quite the same, but as similar

    as you are going to get.

     

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Domoclus


    Heh, sounds like STALKER is more of an RPG than any of  the carebear MMORPGs on the market today. It allowed for full loot, and still I hardly ever picked up anything other than bullets from enemies, simply because I couldn't carry it all. Same with the original Fallouts, it would never be a problem to lose your possessions in a setting like, because one could always get a cheap shotgun by breaking into someone's house, then team up with other losers just like him and raid the nearest police station.
    If FE takes WoW's and others' approach and turns collecting fancy items into the main motivation to keep playing, then I'm gonna wait for detailed reviews before considering this game. I refuse to play any game for a false sense of achievement and security, but rather for excitement and for a chance to get involved in sticky situations which I would avoid at all costs in real life.
     
    P.S. Also, I believe that "PVP zoning", disproportionate high level/better items advantage, and lack of adequate death penalty (e.g. losing one's items) only encourages senseless player killing. The problem with modern RPGs is because they're trying to make players feel more comfortable in them than in real world (no risks, no dangers, no death, etc.) - an approach which works, but once every single game is that way than only top dogs with biggest budgets (WoW) will survive.



     

    I like the way you think good sir. Its a shame there arent more people like you in these forums.

  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367
    Originally posted by Hrothmund



    Seems most decision makers are aiming for the 'WoW jackpot', which is extremely difficult and unlikely for most games to accomplish.

      Frankly, I think it's impossible, at this point. Why?

     

    Wow did something that no other mmorpg could do, up to that point. That was get players who don't play mmorpg's to play mmorpg's.  Millions of gamers who didn't have time for the hardcore, time sink that was most mmorpg's got a chance to try one that wasn't a time sink. Add to that the IP of warcraft that tons of PC gamers (of the non-mmorpg) persuation loved...

     

    Point is, I think you will be hard-pressed to find another large body of untapped gamers waiting for something else to make mmorpg's attractive. So, what you are left with, mostly, is game companies fighting to divide a nearly fixed number of players amongst iheir games.

     

    That said, Niche games are just fine. Don't go after teh whole world to play your game, but make a game that your target audience will love, and do it right. Stop trying to make games that are all things to all people. It just ends up being a watered-down pile of crap that people tolerate, but nobody loves.

     

    To the OPs post, i am surprised that this game will have limited PvP, etc. It just seems like a road-warrior, post-apoc theme screams for a violent, dangerous world to play in.....how exactly can I have 'safe zones' outside of a town in a world that is completely wrecked? It is a bit contradictory to the theme of the game. But its just me.

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  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

    From my understanding the PvP is handled like it is in WoW.  Little to no PvP in S1 then S2 the PvP area is bigger and in S3 most of the map is an PvP area. The reason why the game isn't full loot is probably because the crafting is realtime and it would suck to get something ganked from you that took you a 24 hours or more to craft. 

    I consider FE to be a hybrid game, while it is quest driven like Theme Park games, there are no classes and you can get to max level without getting into a single fight if you wanted to.  I think the game is fine just how it is, now I just got to wait till launch. Im about to pull a Cartman i've been waiting for this game for like a year now.

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    Hmm this is news to me.  I thought I read before that FE was a MMOFPS with full loot FFA PvP that I was going to avoid at all costs.  I might check it out now, thanks.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by spankybus

    Originally posted by Hrothmund



    Seems most decision makers are aiming for the 'WoW jackpot', which is extremely difficult and unlikely for most games to accomplish.

      Frankly, I think it's impossible, at this point. Why?

     

    Wow did something that no other mmorpg could do, up to that point. That was get players who don't play mmorpg's to play mmorpg's.  Millions of gamers who didn't have time for the hardcore, time sink that was most mmorpg's got a chance to try one that wasn't a time sink. Add to that the IP of warcraft that tons of PC gamers (of the non-mmorpg) persuation loved...

     

    Point is, I think you will be hard-pressed to find another large body of untapped gamers waiting for something else to make mmorpg's attractive. So, what you are left with, mostly, is game companies fighting to divide a nearly fixed number of players amongst iheir games.

     

    That said, Niche games are just fine. Don't go after teh whole world to play your game, but make a game that your target audience will love, and do it right. Stop trying to make games that are all things to all people. It just ends up being a watered-down pile of crap that people tolerate, but nobody loves.

     

    To the OPs post, i am surprised that this game will have limited PvP, etc. It just seems like a road-warrior, post-apoc theme screams for a violent, dangerous world to play in.....how exactly can I have 'safe zones' outside of a town in a world that is completely wrecked? It is a bit contradictory to the theme of the game. But its just me.



     

    No its not just you. Your point is totally valid. This is a game that would suit player conflict at its core perfectly......which is what I thought the game was originally built around. I am really disapointed that the games makers appear to have caved into the pve crowd, fearing that they might lose subs otherwise. The silly thing about it is that a lot of pvp haters probably wont go near this game anyway and now the pvp fans probably wont be all that thrilled with having their gameplay restricted by loads of safe zones either.

    Mythic did the same kind of thing with WAR and tried to make a game that would please everyone and ended up making an unfocused game that didnt really excel at anything in particular. It ended up with a chunk of its players hiding in the pve zones and not fighting anyone, another chunk vanishing from the gameworld to fight endless arena matches and the rest were left wandering around barren and empty rvr "playpens" calling out for a challenge and only getting the echo of their own voice back.

    I'm still going to keep an eye on this game but I'm certainly a lot less interested in it than I was before. Hopefully one of the other pvp focused mmos will provide something more interesting.

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by spankybus

    Originally posted by Hrothmund



    Seems most decision makers are aiming for the 'WoW jackpot', which is extremely difficult and unlikely for most games to accomplish.

      Frankly, I think it's impossible, at this point. Why?

     

    Wow did something that no other mmorpg could do, up to that point. That was get players who don't play mmorpg's to play mmorpg's.  Millions of gamers who didn't have time for the hardcore, time sink that was most mmorpg's got a chance to try one that wasn't a time sink. Add to that the IP of warcraft that tons of PC gamers (of the non-mmorpg) persuation loved...

     

    Point is, I think you will be hard-pressed to find another large body of untapped gamers waiting for something else to make mmorpg's attractive. So, what you are left with, mostly, is game companies fighting to divide a nearly fixed number of players amongst iheir games.

     

    That said, Niche games are just fine. Don't go after teh whole world to play your game, but make a game that your target audience will love, and do it right. Stop trying to make games that are all things to all people. It just ends up being a watered-down pile of crap that people tolerate, but nobody loves.

     

    To the OPs post, i am surprised that this game will have limited PvP, etc. It just seems like a road-warrior, post-apoc theme screams for a violent, dangerous world to play in.....how exactly can I have 'safe zones' outside of a town in a world that is completely wrecked? It is a bit contradictory to the theme of the game. But its just me.



     

    Hey, I was just reading these boards as I have some history with FE and I'm eagerly awaiting how they will do... but I just had to stop and comment on your post - it is quite excellent indeed. You are perfectly right, and i can only hope more and more developers realize these things.

    Kudos :)

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • neoterrarneoterrar Member Posts: 512
    Originally posted by cukimunga


    From my understanding the PvP is handled like it is in WoW.  Little to no PvP in S1 then S2 the PvP area is bigger and in S3 most of the map is an PvP area. The reason why the game isn't full loot is probably because the crafting is realtime and it would suck to get something ganked from you that took you a 24 hours or more to craft. 
     

     

    I think you might be confused with WAR. That's how they handled PvP/RvR areas.

     

    ---

    As I mentioned WAR. I think all you PvP fans knew how odd it was to play on a normal server and have your enemy faction standing next to you, with nothing you could do about it. Imagine that in a Post-Apoc setting.

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258
    Originally posted by neoterrar

    Originally posted by cukimunga


    From my understanding the PvP is handled like it is in WoW.  Little to no PvP in S1 then S2 the PvP area is bigger and in S3 most of the map is an PvP area. The reason why the game isn't full loot is probably because the crafting is realtime and it would suck to get something ganked from you that took you a 24 hours or more to craft. 
     

     

    I think you might be confused with WAR. That's how they handled PvP/RvR areas.

     

    ---

    As I mentioned WAR. I think all you PvP fans knew how odd it was to play on a normal server and have your enemy faction standing next to you, with nothing you could do about it. Imagine that in a Post-Apoc setting.

    WAR may have been a better example. But still in WoW you start off in a Non PvP zone. You do some quests and then it guides you your first PvP zone. Then from there on out a lot of the areas are PvP zones.  I only managed to make it to lvl 50 in WoW before I quit so I don't know whats past that.

  • JGMIIIJGMIII Member Posts: 1,282

    It's still a sandbox but admittingly I am a bit sad that FFA looting was taken out.

    This in no way makes the game a non-sandbox however.

    Playing: EvE, Ryzom

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    Eve is a totally different game in reguards to loot.  someone in what is classified as level 1 gear in most games can kick people's asses in Eve if done right.  the game is not gear dependent as for as expensive or hard to get gear.  If a game is going to rely on gear then full loot is a stupid idea.

  • aleosaleos Member UncommonPosts: 1,938
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal


     
    When i 1st heard about fallen earth, i thought it was the game that could replace darkfall online and compute vs mortal online.
    After i checked their forum, i made a post with some question. I heard that it was not a sandbox game, i heard that it was pve over pvp and 1/3 zone of the whole world is where you can pvp only. Just like the wildness from runescape, but without full loot. So pvp in that game will be a grind like wow or a quake war.
    I think this game will stay at a low number of subs. Its a game for 18+ so dont expect kids to play. You knew that most of the followers would be aldult so why dont you want to follow the old days?
    If you make a 18+ mmorpg relate for mature, the rules is to make it a sandbox world, full loot and open pvp. Without that, kids wont even play it because their parents wont buy it for them. The adult wont play it because they are too hold to go on. They want the same fun was before and me either.  And when kids will be 18+, they would be too old to play the same kind of mmorpg so they would want to try something else like mortal online or darkfall online. Fallen earth, you going down.
    About me, i never played UO in my life or archeron call and eve online, but i did try  Darkfall online. At the moment, its the best mmorpg out there, but since its not a rich company, there is a lot of problem and that kept me away from that game. Because of that, i dont play mmorpg anymore.
    So with that faq, i believe that once an open pvp sandbox full loot game without glitch, fast paced enough, to date will be out, i think this game will be very popular and darkfall online is already doing good with their subs.
    I still love you fallout 3.



     

    so you are telling us DF is the only game you ever played? and yes Fallen Earth is very much a sandbox.

  • dramdrumdramdrum Member CommonPosts: 6

    " If you make a 18+ mmorpg relate for mature, the rules is to make it a sandbox world, full loot and open pvp"

     

    Excuse me, but wtf are you smoking? Full loot and open PvP is for mature people?

     

    Did you take a look at DFs population? It's full of immature teenagers acting in the worst possible way imaginable.

     

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