Lets not turn this into another solo vs. group debate. Chances are FFXIV's main emphasis will be party play. Just because they want to add content for somebody with only 40 minutes to play doesn't mean they're taking away the group emphasis. Some solo content while you're LFG or don't have time to group would be a nice addition I think.
Its not that they would be taking away group emphasis, its about taking a step in the wrong direction. First its solo content for casual players, then smaller man instances, then better rewards for solo players, then etc....It will then turn into WoW where BC solo-obtainable greens are better than pre-BC raid pieces.
I am all for group content but there's no reason for it to be "hardcore" grouping. They need to make grouping more accessible. The standard Tank/healer/DPS scheme is getting old to be honest, it makes huge bottlenecks of wasted time. Granted it is difficult to make content that 5 healers can do AND 5 tanks can do instead of the perfect combination, but waiting on the game and to form the "perfect" party is plain stupid. The classes need to be more "well rounded" so they can take on whatever role is needed in the party. We need X healer and X tank with X,Y, and Z DPS is getting archaic. It's completely silly that some of you defend it to the end of time and are so afraid to stray from it. I personally don't need a game where I can solo to max level but I do want a game I can play. It's not even like I am a super busy guy, but I do have a full time job and a girlfriend and friends. FFXI, the requirements were you couldn't have a full time job, couldn't have a GF unless she played too, couldn't have many friends unless they played also... and that's about it. For all you that went through all that, great, I am actually jealous I didn't get to see much of the game like you, but let's grow up now and let everyone else play an online Final Fantasy game too/
See, what you just stated in your post is what most of us want to stray away from in some MMOs. Some games are made to be played casually, while others aren't. I think that the crowd who loved FF11 doesn't want casual players, they don't want people who have "lives" that you speak of. They want hardcore, dedicated people who give up lots of time to play. Group centric play helps with this.
Some communities like having large player bases, but some don't. I didn't even play FF11 hardcore but I totally back up not having it a casual game. This is just one step in creating a game that is original and unique. Don't ruin what is good by trying to satisfy a group of people that the game isn't meant for.
Whether you have a "life" or not, pick and choose the games you want to play. I had a life too when I played FF11, and quit because I didn't have the time to put into the game as it wanted me to. One thing that Asian based companies are good at is targeting a certain market and keeping it that way.
I honestly think I'm missing what you're saying. What most of you are saying. I just want to make sure I have this right:
You're saying that you want this game to be just like it was, for people to sit in "new Jeuno (or whatever the newest Jeuno type city will be)" lfg for hours and hours and hours, not have anything else to do, because that would be considered casual? Also to not be able to do anything else aside from grouping, because that too would be considered too casual?
Don't take my post as anything other than what it is, I'm simply asking to see if that's really what you guys are saying.
I'd like to see them retain most of the grouping mechanics of the original, just not sure that's possible.
Like with movies, most MMORPG sequels turn out to be less successful than their predecessor. Most would agree that EQ2, Lineage 2 never reached the heights of the originals and some outright crashed and burned like AC2.
So how do you make a good sequel? I think like others have said, you need to stay true to your original audiance, yet still introduce enough changes to entice new players who might need some additional solo content to remain interested.
I myself decided not to play FFXI when I found out how group centric it was, especially in its early days. Even now, I might still have to pass if it turns out the FFXIV is exactly the same, I just don't have the time and patience for it.
But that's OK too, I don't have to play FFXIV, and they don't need to make the game to cater to my needs, just the needs of those looking for a particular experience.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It sounds dumb, but if you have to sit around for hours on end waiting for a group and you still continuously come back to the game to play, then yes, keep it that way.
The point I was trying to make was to stray away from changing things that made the first game successful to the players. Notice I said players, not the subs.
Implementing solo content isn't a bad idea in any way, its just that so many games implement it in a way that it completely takes over grouping or other aspects of the game. If FF14 did have solo content, the XP should be far far far less than grouping and the ratio should be far worse. The rewards should be pathetic and absolutely nothing compared to group rewards.
All I'm saying is that keep the game the way it was, make the improvements needed and keep the fans happy.
FFXI did a great job with group play by they should make FFXIV little less of a group. Let me explain myself. 5 years ago i had a good life , could play 3-10 hours no problem, now 5 years later i find myself with less time as for i have a wife and child now. Now my life is GREAT but ...... i love to play MMO's still and enjoy the group asspect of that i just do not have 3-10 hours to play. I want to enjoy my child growing up and would hate to cut his time short because i spent 1-2 hours looking for group, which FFXI was famous for. FFXIV should be some solo and a group size of say 3-4 could some mini bosses kinda of like LoTRo has a 3 man dungen which is great for ppl who have little time and need some good loot. I know FFXI you could group for the seal quest and was fun , but it was hard to group with just 3-4 ppl and get good xp. Am not saying it should be able to solo all the way to lvl cap but they need to set the game for ppl who enjoy the story and have little time to spend 1 hour looking for party and 1 hour getting there just to find out that your healer has to go in 30min . So you spend 2 hours to get 30min worth of xp when you could have just gone with 4 and gotten good xp
Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion Playing Rift
Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(
Interesting reads, but a lot of you folks here are failing to realize that Square-Enix will be developing this game with a Japanese style for Japanese players first and foremost. Your hopes and prayers will never be answered, simply because we are not who they are trying to appease to. Like many have said FFXI has been around for quite some time now and as with all games, the audience grows up and the games they play take a turn in different directions. And the Japanese are know to be fiercely loyal and open with their Japanese player base. Let's just get some things out the way:
They are known to radically change styles with each variation of FF they make.
They do not need input from western players.
They will have a very limited window for beta testing in the states.
If they are going to research the western market, they WILL be using WoW as a model.
They are not banking on this being a hit in the state.
The only time they ever responded to NA players in FFXI was when they released new servers to give us a fair shake.
The patches they released in the past are trickle downs from JP players' playing experiences and outcries. If FFIV doesn't do well here, don't expect a lot, they will simply pull the plug on the deadbeat servers and keep on truckin. And as far as supporting two different types of MMOs to cater to two different types of Japanese players, where in the rulebook does it say a billion dollar company can't and won't do just that?
I swear guys think about it....the only thing Square-Enix will do for us is give us a great translation and maybe our own server......and from where I'm standing that's all I need. Hell I was happy to even GET FFXI over here, yet along think I had any REAL input to it's development direction....get over yourselves...that may work here, but over there they won't even hear your whining screams.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Interesting reads, but a lot of you folks here are failing to realize that Square-Enix will be developing this game with a Japanese style for Japanese players first and foremost. Your hopes and prayers will never be answered, simply because we are not who they are trying to appease to. Like many have said FFXI has been around for quite some time now and as with all games, the audience grows up and the games they play take a turn in different directions. And the Japanese are know to be fiercely loyal and open with their Japanese player base. Let's just get some things out the way:
They are known to radically change styles with each variation of FF they make. They do not need input from western players. They will have a very limited window for beta testing in the states. If they are going to research the western market, they WILL be using WoW as a model. They are not banking on this being a hit in the state. The only time they ever responded to NA players in FFXI was when they released new servers to give us a fair shake.
The patches they released in the past are trickle downs from JP players' playing experiences and outcries. If FFIV doesn't do well here, don't expect a lot, they will simply pull the plug on the deadbeat servers and keep on truckin. And as far as supporting two different types of MMOs to cater to two different types of Japanese players, where in the rulebook does it say a billion dollar company can't and won't do just that?
I swear guys think about it....the only thing Square-Enix will do for us is give us a great translation and maybe our own server......and from where I'm standing that's all I need. Hell I was happy to even GET FFXI over here, yet along think I had any REAL input to it's development direction....get over yourselves...that may work here, but over there they won't even hear your whining screams.
I hope your right because all the westerns want is casual fest wow clones. As for the severs, to my knowlage FFXI has no JP specific server. anyone can play on any server, I am hoping FFXIV is that way aswell.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Interesting reads, but a lot of you folks here are failing to realize that Square-Enix will be developing this game with a Japanese style for Japanese players first and foremost. Your hopes and prayers will never be answered, simply because we are not who they are trying to appease to. Like many have said FFXI has been around for quite some time now and as with all games, the audience grows up and the games they play take a turn in different directions. And the Japanese are know to be fiercely loyal and open with their Japanese player base. Let's just get some things out the way:
They are known to radically change styles with each variation of FF they make. They do not need input from western players. They will have a very limited window for beta testing in the states. If they are going to research the western market, they WILL be using WoW as a model. They are not banking on this being a hit in the state. The only time they ever responded to NA players in FFXI was when they released new servers to give us a fair shake.
The patches they released in the past are trickle downs from JP players' playing experiences and outcries. If FFIV doesn't do well here, don't expect a lot, they will simply pull the plug on the deadbeat servers and keep on truckin. And as far as supporting two different types of MMOs to cater to two different types of Japanese players, where in the rulebook does it say a billion dollar company can't and won't do just that?
I swear guys think about it....the only thing Square-Enix will do for us is give us a great translation and maybe our own server......and from where I'm standing that's all I need. Hell I was happy to even GET FFXI over here, yet along think I had any REAL input to it's development direction....get over yourselves...that may work here, but over there they won't even hear your whining screams.
I hope your right because all the westerns want is casual fest wow clones. As for the severs, to my knowlage FFXI has no JP specific server. anyone can play on any server, I am hoping FFXIV is that way aswell.
I don't think he is.
Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft had on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
Sounds like they are trying to go for more of the western casual market. The big question is how casual are they shooting for? The WoW a couple hours a week casual or the 1 to 2 hours a day casual.
FFXI could of been a much bigger success if they would of allowed some soloing or some alternative to standing around for hours in the lfg channel.
Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft had on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
Sounds like they are trying to go for more of the western casual market. The big question is how casual are they shooting for? The WoW a couple hours a week casual or the 1 to 2 hours a day casual.
FFXI could of been a much bigger success if they would of allowed some soloing or some alternative to standing around for hours in the lfg channel.
I agree that they need to address the LFG aspect. That seems to be the major gripe.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
This is the HUGE misconception people keep talking about.Grouping is not the problem,TIME is not the problem,it is the mechanics or lack of grouping ideas and the players are the other problem.
What games like FFXI need is more mechanics that make grouping less painful and just all around easier for everyone and yes it "IS "possible,heck hire me and i could set it up easily,i hope they have some people in that 3000+ staff that can think.
The other big problem is that even if a game that forces grouping had ALL the mechanics it needs to make grouping easy and fun,there would still be people that find something to complain about.It is those people that think there is some "TIME"contract that forces people to get things done in a certain amount of time,well there is not.You can play ANY game at your own pace,there is nothing stopping anyone from doing otherwise.
So there it is ,,two problems the games lack of mechanics and the players who just like to FABRICATE excuses no matter what the game does to appease them.I call them excuses,because NOT once have i ever heard a player that talks about time constraints,ever mention improving mechanics to take away those constraints,so that tells me they are the problem because rather than fix it,they would rather have a game selfishly 'change" or cater to them.
SO no matter how FFXIV comes out,if you do not like the way things are done or lack of mechanics,ask for improvement,DO NOT try to change the whole game or it's concept to meet "ONE" person's demand...your own !.
Games need BULLETIN boards,so that players can type in ALL the jobs/classes things they want to do for that day.They can put in their req's days before they even login ,if they want,so that soon they login,players will see them and send them a tell.
Players need mechanics to store "saved"armour/weapon/items setups ,for each player ,each class,each job,this way they can press a button and they have their whole setup,without having to mule for hours to get the gear they need.Games need better info,so groups do not waste their time going to a camp ,only to find out it is overwhelmed with groups.Games need to make sure there is enough jobs to make a group happen,example [TANK and HEALER shortages].
There is MANY other ideas and mechanics that can make grouping easier,this is not a gaming concept that needs changing at all,we just need more devs with brains.
As far as servers go,you may see a more localized server because,usually they release in JPN first,so if their servers are full,then they will add "new" servers for their NA launch,this alone may allow the new servers to be 90% NA's.In the beginning a lot of people like to server jump,as people always tend to think the "grass is greener on the other side".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is the HUGE misconception people keep talking about.Grouping is not the problem,TIME is not the problem,it is the mechanics or lack of grouping ideas and the players are the other problem. What games like FFXI need is more mechanics that make grouping less painful and just all around easier for everyone and yes it "IS "possible,heck hire me and i could set it up easily,i hope they have some people in that 3000+ staff that can think. The other big problem is that even if a game that forces grouping had ALL the mechanics it needs to make grouping easy and fun,there would still be people that find something to complain about.It is those people that think there is some "TIME"contract that forces people to get things done in a certain amount of time,well there is not.You can play ANY game at your own pace,there is nothing stopping anyone from doing otherwise. So there it is ,,two problems the games lack of mechanics and the players who just like to FABRICATE excuses no matter what the game does to appease them.I call them excuses,because NOT once have i ever heard a player that talks about time constraints,ever mention improving mechanics to take away those constraints,so that tells me they are the problem because rather than fix it,they would rather have a game selfishly 'change" or cater to them. SO no matter how FFXIV comes out,if you do not like the way things are done or lack of mechanics,ask for improvement,DO NOT try to change the whole game or it's concept to meet "ONE" person's demand...your own !. Games need BULLETIN boards,so that players can type in ALL the jobs/classes things they want to do for that day.They can put in their req's days before they even login ,if they want,so that soon they login,players will see them and send them a tell. Players need mechanics to store "saved"armour/weapon/items setups ,for each player ,each class,each job,this way they can press a button and they have their whole setup,without having to mule for hours to get the gear they need.Games need better info,so groups do not waste their time going to a camp ,only to find out it is overwhelmed with groups.Games need to make sure there is enough jobs to make a group happen,example [TANK and HEALER shortages]. There is MANY other ideas and mechanics that can make grouping easier,this is not a gaming concept that needs changing at all,we just need more devs with brains. As far as servers go,you may see a more localized server because,usually they release in JPN first,so if their servers are full,then they will add "new" servers for their NA launch,this alone may allow the new servers to be 90% NA's.In the beginning a lot of people like to server jump,as people always tend to think the "grass is greener on the other side".
This is the HUGE misconception people keep talking about.Grouping is not the problem,TIME is not the problem,it is the mechanics or lack of grouping ideas and the players are the other problem. What games like FFXI need is more mechanics that make grouping less painful and just all around easier for everyone and yes it "IS "possible,heck hire me and i could set it up easily,i hope they have some people in that 3000+ staff that can think. The other big problem is that even if a game that forces grouping had ALL the mechanics it needs to make grouping easy and fun,there would still be people that find something to complain about.It is those people that think there is some "TIME"contract that forces people to get things done in a certain amount of time,well there is not.You can play ANY game at your own pace,there is nothing stopping anyone from doing otherwise. So there it is ,,two problems the games lack of mechanics and the players who just like to FABRICATE excuses no matter what the game does to appease them.I call them excuses,because NOT once have i ever heard a player that talks about time constraints,ever mention improving mechanics to take away those constraints,so that tells me they are the problem because rather than fix it,they would rather have a game selfishly 'change" or cater to them. SO no matter how FFXIV comes out,if you do not like the way things are done or lack of mechanics,ask for improvement,DO NOT try to change the whole game or it's concept to meet "ONE" person's demand...your own !. Games need BULLETIN boards,so that players can type in ALL the jobs/classes things they want to do for that day.They can put in their req's days before they even login ,if they want,so that soon they login,players will see them and send them a tell. Players need mechanics to store "saved"armour/weapon/items setups ,for each player ,each class,each job,this way they can press a button and they have their whole setup,without having to mule for hours to get the gear they need.Games need better info,so groups do not waste their time going to a camp ,only to find out it is overwhelmed with groups.Games need to make sure there is enough jobs to make a group happen,example [TANK and HEALER shortages]. There is MANY other ideas and mechanics that can make grouping easier,this is not a gaming concept that needs changing at all,we just need more devs with brains. As far as servers go,you may see a more localized server because,usually they release in JPN first,so if their servers are full,then they will add "new" servers for their NA launch,this alone may allow the new servers to be 90% NA's.In the beginning a lot of people like to server jump,as people always tend to think the "grass is greener on the other side".
I don't think lfg mechanics is the problem. You can have all the lfg mechanics in the world but certain classes will always be less poplar, which usually ends up being the tank and healing classes. Which then cause many people to sit and wait in the lfg channel looking for those particular classes.
Something truly different needs to be done. Whether that is making the classes more hybrid like or allowing to hire npc to fill slots is open for debate.
Well, I have a few things I wanna say about this whole thing.
First, I don't ever remember sitting around for hours upon hours on any job waiting for a party. I played for 5 years and had 6 level 75 jobs and every other job was at least 37. Maybe thats because I had a better way of going about things. Before I start though, I did have times I played for along time, but for the most part I was not hardcore. Now for some examples, I did not immediatly log on as soon as I got home from work and just party party party party party... if I did I problably would have thought the game was really boring. In my opinion, there was always something I needed/wanted to do.. and while I did those things, if there was nothing going on in the LS, I just put my flag up and ran around doing what I was doing and soon I would get invites. Sometimes I would go, sometimes I would not be in the mood to. I also at one point had a static party of friends that agreed to level up a specific job with me at the times I could play.. while I was not on, if they wanted to party, they did other things/leveled other jobs because we had that option to do so. Be proactive, your first mistake is exactly what your saying about yourself, "I would sit in Jeuno for hours jsut lfp." Yes, just sit there, that will help you!
There were always tons of options I thought. Sometimes you just have to take the initiative to make things happen. Set up the party if your not getting invites.. ask your friends to party, LS mates, set up a static, or hell do something else besides grind. Go farm, hunt an NM, go fishing, do some rank, do some of the city missions, craft, bcnm, ksnm, CoP missions. If you want some exp, defend the city, or do those escort quests. Believe it or not there was tons of stuff to do. Another thing, I mean I only played for 5 YEARS, but I feel like I'm missing something... what was it.. oh yeah.. they even had a completely solo job that they put into the game, BST O.o.
So my question is this... how much more solo do you want the game. Serisouly, if you really want a much more soloable game, you might wanna think about putting the MMO's down and picking up some regular good old console games. Maybe its just me, but it sounds like thats what you solo players are asking for, and there is a market out there for you!
I am not saying they should make it more hardcore by any means, that would suck lol, and I'm even a little open to a few more soloable tweaks, but nothing that makes a big difference.
The poster above seems to have truly played FFXI to the fullest. I too was a fairly hardcore player, starting from the NA launch and played for 5+ years.
The discussion on the board seems to be focussing on FF14 having more solo activities to make it more casual. But this truly is not the difference when you compare a game like WoW to FFXI. The best comparison I can make is that Wow is like checkers and FFXI is like Chess. Both fun, but Chess is more complex and thus inherantly more rewarding to play--if you have the patience.
One aspect that I dont think will ever change is that what SE set out to do with FFXI is to make a completely emmersive world. They simulate a world with real distances, real challenges even in getting to places. While others look at these elements as annoyances, i.e. "how come they dont just let you fly?" etc. , it adds an level of weight to the game. It made you appreciate spending hours of farming in the dangruff wadi for gusbit greens so you can get your chocobo license and finally ride instead of walk. Or when you got your airship pass after defeating the Dark Lord at 50. Or Sea access when you finally beat that friggin airship BC!!! (Apologies in advance: only FFXI players will understand the above)
Same went for smaller accomplishments. There is a quest for EVERYTHING. And hard quests not that simple collect 10 of these or kill 30 of those kinf of quests. There is literally so much to do in the game, that if all you're doing is looking for party then you are missing 80% of the content.
Another aspect is the community. Because you had to group, you got to know people well... really well. And because the job system allowed a single character to experience all jobs you knew people in different roles. I have not played the game for a year or so now, but i still have my character and can log on and see the same familar faces and they will greet me like the father of the prodigal son, elated to see i'm back, even if just for a little while. Thats how much you bond in game and why i think people still play.
Although I dont have the time to play anymore, and while there were aspects of the game I would never dare repeat if I had to do it again (Chains of Promethus when the gil sellers were hyper inflating the economy) , I still believe FFXI is one of the most well crafted MMO every produces: from graphics, to game mechanics, to story line and content.
I truly hope they dont dont change too much with FFXIV.
Well, I have a few things I wanna say about this whole thing.
First, I don't ever remember sitting around for hours upon hours on any job waiting for a party. I played for 5 years and had 6 level 75 jobs and every other job was at least 37. Maybe thats because I had a better way of going about things. Before I start though, I did have times I played for along time, but for the most part I was not hardcore. Now for some examples, I did not immediatly log on as soon as I got home from work and just party party party party party... if I did I problably would have thought the game was really boring. In my opinion, there was always something I needed/wanted to do.. and while I did those things, if there was nothing going on in the LS, I just put my flag up and ran around doing what I was doing and soon I would get invites. Sometimes I would go, sometimes I would not be in the mood to. I also at one point had a static party of friends that agreed to level up a specific job with me at the times I could play.. while I was not on, if they wanted to party, they did other things/leveled other jobs because we had that option to do so. Be proactive, your first mistake is exactly what your saying about yourself, "I would sit in Jeuno for hours jsut lfp." Yes, just sit there, that will help you!
There were always tons of options I thought. Sometimes you just have to take the initiative to make things happen. Set up the party if your not getting invites.. ask your friends to party, LS mates, set up a static, or hell do something else besides grind. Go farm, hunt an NM, go fishing, do some rank, do some of the city missions, craft, bcnm, ksnm, CoP missions. If you want some exp, defend the city, or do those escort quests. Believe it or not there was tons of stuff to do. Another thing, I mean I only played for 5 YEARS, but I feel like I'm missing something... what was it.. oh yeah.. they even had a completely solo job that they put into the game, BST O.o.
So my question is this... how much more solo do you want the game. Serisouly, if you really want a much more soloable game, you might wanna think about putting the MMO's down and picking up some regular good old console games. Maybe its just me, but it sounds like thats what you solo players are asking for, and there is a market out there for you!
I am not saying they should make it more hardcore by any means, that would suck lol, and I'm even a little open to a few more soloable tweaks, but nothing that makes a big difference.
That is great that you had a excellent experience. But apparently your experience was not the norm, apparently most people found finding a group a absolute nightmare. Maybe not all the time but enough for people to find FFXI unenjoyable. I personally didn't run into a issue until my mid 30's as a red mage, but I had friends that were other jobs that had more issues because there jobs were much less desirable. Which is the real problem, sure finding a group isn't a issue if you play a tanker or healer but play any of the hybird classes and you can be SoL a lot of times.
As far as all your options go if it were that easy well we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The norm? There were probly more people with at least 1, usually many more, level 75 jobs than there were people without at least 1, at least on my server... so maybe its just me but most people seemed to do just fine. Also, that wasnt the complete point of my post. I wanted to point out that there were many things to keep one busy besides grinding.. all it really sounds like to me is that people that are "casual" just really want a game that they can play and be top dog in like 2 weeks. I mean I made many examples of things people could have done solo.. including leveling one of the jobs to 75 completely solo.. so I dont see how you can still down my post if you actually read it. If you wanted to solo.. or if you got tired of playing a job that nobody wants to play with, then play BST.
Furthermore, I also said I had 6 level 75 jobs.. a PLD, WAR, DRK, SAM, NIN, RNG.. and I still never sat around.. I know saying this will probly get some people mad and flaming, but I'm prepared. In FFXI, reputation was huge, so maybe the reason I never sat around is because people knew I was a good player.. maybe the reason people did not invite you is because you were not so skilled, or did not put the time into getting decent gear >.>
WoW went too far with the 'catering to casuals' aspect. They shifted from a 'great' group endgame/mid-game-play style to a completely shameful solo/casual style of play. You also have to remember that FFXIV is Japanese and that their culture is COMPLETELY different than the Western's culture, and it affects game as well. If you think this game will fail you are completely wrong. Go look at all the games SE made (yes, single-player games, but the creativity is beyond any other game that EVER existed). SE is the most likely the only company that will never let you down. In Japan its all about honor and quality. In the western world its all about greed, money, QUANTITY, and control (power).
The main failure of FFXI is the lack of things to do while in a party.
I've played FFXI for over 200 days played time on my main character. Loved it for a long time, but after a while sitting there auto attacking waiting for TP just to hit ONE SINGLE BUTTON is not fun. I'm sorry.
Maybe mages will say that they have plenty of things to do! They did! However why have 20 classes if most of them are just auto attacking and then using a single button?
Its so annoying, I've leveled Dragoon, Warrior, and a pleathora of other melee classes and frankly they're all insanely dull, even at 75. I've leveled white mage and red mage and nearly every other mage, they have a lot to do sure, but a LOT of down time until you get high level, and then it gets really repetative.
They need to make it how they are planning on making it.
"Group vs group combat" as in you fight multiple monsters at the same time, lots of mayhem and madness and action happening.
WoW went too far with the 'catering to casuals' aspect. They shifted from a 'great' group endgame/mid-game-play style to a completely shameful solo/casual style of play. You also have to remember that FFXIV is Japanese and that their culture is COMPLETELY different than the Western's culture, and it affects game as well. If you think this game will fail you are completely wrong. Go look at all the games SE made (yes, single-player games, but the creativity is beyond any other game that EVER existed). SE is the most likely the only company that will never let you down. In Japan its all about honor and quality. In the western world its all about greed, money, QUANTITY, and control (power).
Athkore, I said in the opening thread post not to flame. So you hate westerners, fine, just keep it out of this thread.
The main failure of FFXI is the lack of things to do while in a party. I've played FFXI for over 200 days played time on my main character. Loved it for a long time, but after a while sitting there auto attacking waiting for TP just to hit ONE SINGLE BUTTON is not fun. I'm sorry. Maybe mages will say that they have plenty of things to do! They did! However why have 20 classes if most of them are just auto attacking and then using a single button? Its so annoying, I've leveled Dragoon, Warrior, and a pleathora of other melee classes and frankly they're all insanely dull, even at 75. I've leveled white mage and red mage and nearly every other mage, they have a lot to do sure, but a LOT of down time until you get high level, and then it gets really repetative. They need to make it how they are planning on making it. "Group vs group combat" as in you fight multiple monsters at the same time, lots of mayhem and madness and action happening.
There is an easy solution to this thought Laughing-man (by the way, cool avatar, I finally figured out what the words said on that symbol from Ghost in the Shell). Simply keep all the game mechanics from FF XI and improve on them for FF XIV. And by improve, I mean avoid casual aspects and try to make the game a wee bit easier. I can admit, the learning curve for that game was quite steep, and from reading all these posts it did suck trying to find a white mage or another important support role for your party. However, I think FF XIV should avoid doing hybrid roles (ex: Dragoon/White Mage). In my opinion, hybrid roles seem to go more towards the casual aspects rather than the hardcore (following these mechanics, of course).
I am not totally sure that FFXi isn't casual player friendly. ToAH and WoTG introduced a lot of hardcore content, but brought about a lot of casual content. Campaign (for one) was a lot of fun, I wouldn't consider campaign "hardcore" at all. A lot of people (casual and hardcore players) were more than happy to seek a party, and then go off and gain a moderate amount of exp and other bonuses in Campaign Battles. This system is a lot like Besieged, where as the players could have fun and gain a small amount of exp and help there server benefit form defending the city. If these types of systems are a precursor to the content we will see more of in FFXIV then I bet we will all be happy, but in all honesty these systems cater to casual game play. I don't see SE doing away with missions, quests and other battlefields that provide a challenge. So if they say the game will have more of a casual feel, we may have already tested the game concepts they are leaning the game towards.
because sitting for hours LFG to get a group just to grind, then dying an hour in to effectively undo your last several hours worth of work is fun!
Amirite?
Seriously, this is dumb. Keep the job system... it's the best in any mmo out. The grouping system was awesome in FFXI but being forced to do it to accomplish anything is stupid. Provide solo content, even if it's a minimal amount that requires you to do something tedious, at least provide it...
I have faith in FFXIV it might be a little more casual friendly so long as it is still community/party based then I don't mind... I will be extremely dissapointed though if it's easy to solo through the game with just grouping for "group quests" or whatever like so many other mmos.
WoW went too far with the 'catering to casuals' aspect. They shifted from a 'great' group endgame/mid-game-play style to a completely shameful solo/casual style of play. You also have to remember that FFXIV is Japanese and that their culture is COMPLETELY different than the Western's culture, and it affects game as well. If you think this game will fail you are completely wrong. Go look at all the games SE made (yes, single-player games, but the creativity is beyond any other game that EVER existed). SE is the most likely the only company that will never let you down. In Japan its all about honor and quality. In the western world its all about greed, money, QUANTITY, and control (power).
Athkore, I said in the opening thread post not to flame. So you hate westerners, fine, just keep it out of this thread.
What? I don't hate westerners. I'm just saying that Blizzard went too far with the 'cater to casuals/soloers' aspect. It was not originally intended. Blizzard deserves to be hit on for that and you and everyone that has been to the top in WoW know that that.. They completely changed the core of the game around them. A lot of people here are trying to compare WoW to FFXI. or pointing out things are that similar ... you can't. You can't compare those games in any way. It's a disgrace to do so. And I see you did not read my post correctly as it has nothing to do with hating westerners, I'm just telling the truth.
To me it seems like this thread was made for nothing more than to oppose the "I want a brand new game and not rehash with prettier graphics" thread, because that's all this would be.
If Square-Enix decided it was worth it, if enough people would pay a couple bucks more per month for a prettier Final Fantasy XI and that the cost to reproduce FFXI or change the game from its current state to an updated version didn't set them back, they could do it. But it's been out far too long and its player pool deminishes monthly. Even adding another expansion isn't likely to bring NEW players into the game, just give its current players something to do with themselves beside camp and battle the same old stuff. Take the moogle expansion for example. Final Fantasy XI might have another year's worth of content planned out, but if it's all that level of quality, just a series of mini-expansions, who's going to be interested? I'm not buying expansions that I'm not even strong enough to explore yet, or have the time to invest in.
Bahamut recentlly merged with another server, and most servers today have about 2,000 or less playing together, which includes however many gilsellers and bots there might be. Most servers could probably be combined. When I first started playing, because there were about 4,000 on at a time, I never had a hard time finding a party. But nowadays with only 2,000 players, LevelSync instigating the elitist clique, and all the casual-friendly additions - I don't even TRY to find a party anymore. It's just easier to play solo. I've spent days in Giddeus leveling clothcraft with an invite flag & search comment without getting a single an /tell. It's actually kind of depressing compared to how active the game was when I started in '06.
Anyway the point is that they're not making Final Fantasy XIV to cater to graphics whores any more than they're making it to cater to us party-players. As hard as it was being forced to play and rely upon a party for survival WAS one of the greatest things about Final Fantasy XI. And while they've made it less harsh on those members who (for whatever reason) find themselves forced to solo, it's still a party-centric game. Moreso than any other ones out there... I don't think XIV should resemble XI in any way. I'm even upset that they're using only slightly altered races from XI (I hoped for something brand new). Some people like the similarity in the franchise; I'll admit it's that familiarity that makes me play Final Fantasy XI over World of Warcraft or any other MMORPG: The Chocobos, the Moogles, the job classes and the play style. But another theme of Final Fantasy is how drastically they all differ from one another. I've not enjoyed any sequels, prequels, or mini-stories of any game as much as the original numbered titles.
So I ask you, when you say you'd rather "keep the feel of FFXI" I wonder; what exactly IS the feel of FFXI? Are you speaking of the feel of the game as it was at day zero, or the feel of the game today? What will be the feel of FFXI tomorrow? If people want to play Final Fantasy XI, they will. The reason these two games should and will be different is because people aren't going to pay twice for two identical MMORPG's.
Even now it's still impossible to get through the main storyline without having a lv.75 (or in some cases a party of lv.75's). That's something that greatly discouraged me and made me quit for almost a year. You'd complete a mission and maybe gain a rank, then suddenly you're too weak to complete the next mission until you gained about 10 levels, which meant about a week of grinding. I understand games should take time to beat, especially MMORPG's, but there should be a more natural development and objectives for players to complete that still incorporate relevance to the story so that it does NOT have "the feel of FFXI". By the time I was strong enough to do another mission I had long since forgotten what happend earlier in the plot. Eventually the game became more about gaining levels because you basically can't do anything before Lv.75 unless you're okay with leaving it unfinished for weeks or more.
I think for Final Fantasy XIV, if they plan on making it more 'casual / solo' friendly, they should make it soloable for the main storyline with a lot more content, even if the actual story progression is slower (...a LOT slower...) and force people to form parties and some max member alliances for things like notorious monsters, elite dungeons, expansion content, and acquiring pieces of relic-armor. I would also like to see this taken literally; as in you'd have all these useless pieces of rare junk that you'd be forced to develop the crafting skill to put it together yourself. But all that is just my own wet dream...
Wow. Sorry for the great big wall o' text. I'm at work and really have nothing better to do. =/
Comments
Its not that they would be taking away group emphasis, its about taking a step in the wrong direction. First its solo content for casual players, then smaller man instances, then better rewards for solo players, then etc....It will then turn into WoW where BC solo-obtainable greens are better than pre-BC raid pieces.
See, what you just stated in your post is what most of us want to stray away from in some MMOs. Some games are made to be played casually, while others aren't. I think that the crowd who loved FF11 doesn't want casual players, they don't want people who have "lives" that you speak of. They want hardcore, dedicated people who give up lots of time to play. Group centric play helps with this.
Some communities like having large player bases, but some don't. I didn't even play FF11 hardcore but I totally back up not having it a casual game. This is just one step in creating a game that is original and unique. Don't ruin what is good by trying to satisfy a group of people that the game isn't meant for.
Whether you have a "life" or not, pick and choose the games you want to play. I had a life too when I played FF11, and quit because I didn't have the time to put into the game as it wanted me to. One thing that Asian based companies are good at is targeting a certain market and keeping it that way.
I honestly think I'm missing what you're saying. What most of you are saying. I just want to make sure I have this right:
You're saying that you want this game to be just like it was, for people to sit in "new Jeuno (or whatever the newest Jeuno type city will be)" lfg for hours and hours and hours, not have anything else to do, because that would be considered casual? Also to not be able to do anything else aside from grouping, because that too would be considered too casual?
Don't take my post as anything other than what it is, I'm simply asking to see if that's really what you guys are saying.
I'd like to see them retain most of the grouping mechanics of the original, just not sure that's possible.
Like with movies, most MMORPG sequels turn out to be less successful than their predecessor. Most would agree that EQ2, Lineage 2 never reached the heights of the originals and some outright crashed and burned like AC2.
So how do you make a good sequel? I think like others have said, you need to stay true to your original audiance, yet still introduce enough changes to entice new players who might need some additional solo content to remain interested.
I myself decided not to play FFXI when I found out how group centric it was, especially in its early days. Even now, I might still have to pass if it turns out the FFXIV is exactly the same, I just don't have the time and patience for it.
But that's OK too, I don't have to play FFXIV, and they don't need to make the game to cater to my needs, just the needs of those looking for a particular experience.
In the end, I hope the song remains the same.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It sounds dumb, but if you have to sit around for hours on end waiting for a group and you still continuously come back to the game to play, then yes, keep it that way.
The point I was trying to make was to stray away from changing things that made the first game successful to the players. Notice I said players, not the subs.
Implementing solo content isn't a bad idea in any way, its just that so many games implement it in a way that it completely takes over grouping or other aspects of the game. If FF14 did have solo content, the XP should be far far far less than grouping and the ratio should be far worse. The rewards should be pathetic and absolutely nothing compared to group rewards.
All I'm saying is that keep the game the way it was, make the improvements needed and keep the fans happy.
FFXI did a great job with group play by they should make FFXIV little less of a group. Let me explain myself. 5 years ago i had a good life , could play 3-10 hours no problem, now 5 years later i find myself with less time as for i have a wife and child now. Now my life is GREAT but ...... i love to play MMO's still and enjoy the group asspect of that i just do not have 3-10 hours to play. I want to enjoy my child growing up and would hate to cut his time short because i spent 1-2 hours looking for group, which FFXI was famous for. FFXIV should be some solo and a group size of say 3-4 could some mini bosses kinda of like LoTRo has a 3 man dungen which is great for ppl who have little time and need some good loot. I know FFXI you could group for the seal quest and was fun , but it was hard to group with just 3-4 ppl and get good xp. Am not saying it should be able to solo all the way to lvl cap but they need to set the game for ppl who enjoy the story and have little time to spend 1 hour looking for party and 1 hour getting there just to find out that your healer has to go in 30min . So you spend 2 hours to get 30min worth of xp when you could have just gone with 4 and gotten good xp
Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
Playing Rift
Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(
Interesting reads, but a lot of you folks here are failing to realize that Square-Enix will be developing this game with a Japanese style for Japanese players first and foremost. Your hopes and prayers will never be answered, simply because we are not who they are trying to appease to. Like many have said FFXI has been around for quite some time now and as with all games, the audience grows up and the games they play take a turn in different directions. And the Japanese are know to be fiercely loyal and open with their Japanese player base. Let's just get some things out the way:
The patches they released in the past are trickle downs from JP players' playing experiences and outcries. If FFIV doesn't do well here, don't expect a lot, they will simply pull the plug on the deadbeat servers and keep on truckin. And as far as supporting two different types of MMOs to cater to two different types of Japanese players, where in the rulebook does it say a billion dollar company can't and won't do just that?
I swear guys think about it....the only thing Square-Enix will do for us is give us a great translation and maybe our own server......and from where I'm standing that's all I need. Hell I was happy to even GET FFXI over here, yet along think I had any REAL input to it's development direction....get over yourselves...that may work here, but over there they won't even hear your whining screams.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I hope your right because all the westerns want is casual fest wow clones. As for the severs, to my knowlage FFXI has no JP specific server. anyone can play on any server, I am hoping FFXIV is that way aswell.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I hope your right because all the westerns want is casual fest wow clones. As for the severs, to my knowlage FFXI has no JP specific server. anyone can play on any server, I am hoping FFXIV is that way aswell.
I don't think he is.
Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft had on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696163/E3-2009-Square-Enix-Press-Conference-Tons-Of-Final-Fantasy-XIV-Details-Revealed.html
Sounds like they are trying to go for more of the western casual market. The big question is how casual are they shooting for? The WoW a couple hours a week casual or the 1 to 2 hours a day casual.
FFXI could of been a much bigger success if they would of allowed some soloing or some alternative to standing around for hours in the lfg channel.
I don't think he is.
Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft had on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696163/E3-2009-Square-Enix-Press-Conference-Tons-Of-Final-Fantasy-XIV-Details-Revealed.html
Sounds like they are trying to go for more of the western casual market. The big question is how casual are they shooting for? The WoW a couple hours a week casual or the 1 to 2 hours a day casual.
FFXI could of been a much bigger success if they would of allowed some soloing or some alternative to standing around for hours in the lfg channel.
I agree that they need to address the LFG aspect. That seems to be the major gripe.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
This is the HUGE misconception people keep talking about.Grouping is not the problem,TIME is not the problem,it is the mechanics or lack of grouping ideas and the players are the other problem.
What games like FFXI need is more mechanics that make grouping less painful and just all around easier for everyone and yes it "IS "possible,heck hire me and i could set it up easily,i hope they have some people in that 3000+ staff that can think.
The other big problem is that even if a game that forces grouping had ALL the mechanics it needs to make grouping easy and fun,there would still be people that find something to complain about.It is those people that think there is some "TIME"contract that forces people to get things done in a certain amount of time,well there is not.You can play ANY game at your own pace,there is nothing stopping anyone from doing otherwise.
So there it is ,,two problems the games lack of mechanics and the players who just like to FABRICATE excuses no matter what the game does to appease them.I call them excuses,because NOT once have i ever heard a player that talks about time constraints,ever mention improving mechanics to take away those constraints,so that tells me they are the problem because rather than fix it,they would rather have a game selfishly 'change" or cater to them.
SO no matter how FFXIV comes out,if you do not like the way things are done or lack of mechanics,ask for improvement,DO NOT try to change the whole game or it's concept to meet "ONE" person's demand...your own !.
Games need BULLETIN boards,so that players can type in ALL the jobs/classes things they want to do for that day.They can put in their req's days before they even login ,if they want,so that soon they login,players will see them and send them a tell.
Players need mechanics to store "saved"armour/weapon/items setups ,for each player ,each class,each job,this way they can press a button and they have their whole setup,without having to mule for hours to get the gear they need.Games need better info,so groups do not waste their time going to a camp ,only to find out it is overwhelmed with groups.Games need to make sure there is enough jobs to make a group happen,example [TANK and HEALER shortages].
There is MANY other ideas and mechanics that can make grouping easier,this is not a gaming concept that needs changing at all,we just need more devs with brains.
As far as servers go,you may see a more localized server because,usually they release in JPN first,so if their servers are full,then they will add "new" servers for their NA launch,this alone may allow the new servers to be 90% NA's.In the beginning a lot of people like to server jump,as people always tend to think the "grass is greener on the other side".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Very very well put and I agree with it all
I don't think lfg mechanics is the problem. You can have all the lfg mechanics in the world but certain classes will always be less poplar, which usually ends up being the tank and healing classes. Which then cause many people to sit and wait in the lfg channel looking for those particular classes.
Something truly different needs to be done. Whether that is making the classes more hybrid like or allowing to hire npc to fill slots is open for debate.
Well, I have a few things I wanna say about this whole thing.
First, I don't ever remember sitting around for hours upon hours on any job waiting for a party. I played for 5 years and had 6 level 75 jobs and every other job was at least 37. Maybe thats because I had a better way of going about things. Before I start though, I did have times I played for along time, but for the most part I was not hardcore. Now for some examples, I did not immediatly log on as soon as I got home from work and just party party party party party... if I did I problably would have thought the game was really boring. In my opinion, there was always something I needed/wanted to do.. and while I did those things, if there was nothing going on in the LS, I just put my flag up and ran around doing what I was doing and soon I would get invites. Sometimes I would go, sometimes I would not be in the mood to. I also at one point had a static party of friends that agreed to level up a specific job with me at the times I could play.. while I was not on, if they wanted to party, they did other things/leveled other jobs because we had that option to do so. Be proactive, your first mistake is exactly what your saying about yourself, "I would sit in Jeuno for hours jsut lfp." Yes, just sit there, that will help you!
There were always tons of options I thought. Sometimes you just have to take the initiative to make things happen. Set up the party if your not getting invites.. ask your friends to party, LS mates, set up a static, or hell do something else besides grind. Go farm, hunt an NM, go fishing, do some rank, do some of the city missions, craft, bcnm, ksnm, CoP missions. If you want some exp, defend the city, or do those escort quests. Believe it or not there was tons of stuff to do. Another thing, I mean I only played for 5 YEARS, but I feel like I'm missing something... what was it.. oh yeah.. they even had a completely solo job that they put into the game, BST O.o.
So my question is this... how much more solo do you want the game. Serisouly, if you really want a much more soloable game, you might wanna think about putting the MMO's down and picking up some regular good old console games. Maybe its just me, but it sounds like thats what you solo players are asking for, and there is a market out there for you!
I am not saying they should make it more hardcore by any means, that would suck lol, and I'm even a little open to a few more soloable tweaks, but nothing that makes a big difference.
The poster above seems to have truly played FFXI to the fullest. I too was a fairly hardcore player, starting from the NA launch and played for 5+ years.
The discussion on the board seems to be focussing on FF14 having more solo activities to make it more casual. But this truly is not the difference when you compare a game like WoW to FFXI. The best comparison I can make is that Wow is like checkers and FFXI is like Chess. Both fun, but Chess is more complex and thus inherantly more rewarding to play--if you have the patience.
One aspect that I dont think will ever change is that what SE set out to do with FFXI is to make a completely emmersive world. They simulate a world with real distances, real challenges even in getting to places. While others look at these elements as annoyances, i.e. "how come they dont just let you fly?" etc. , it adds an level of weight to the game. It made you appreciate spending hours of farming in the dangruff wadi for gusbit greens so you can get your chocobo license and finally ride instead of walk. Or when you got your airship pass after defeating the Dark Lord at 50. Or Sea access when you finally beat that friggin airship BC!!! (Apologies in advance: only FFXI players will understand the above)
Same went for smaller accomplishments. There is a quest for EVERYTHING. And hard quests not that simple collect 10 of these or kill 30 of those kinf of quests. There is literally so much to do in the game, that if all you're doing is looking for party then you are missing 80% of the content.
Another aspect is the community. Because you had to group, you got to know people well... really well. And because the job system allowed a single character to experience all jobs you knew people in different roles. I have not played the game for a year or so now, but i still have my character and can log on and see the same familar faces and they will greet me like the father of the prodigal son, elated to see i'm back, even if just for a little while. Thats how much you bond in game and why i think people still play.
Although I dont have the time to play anymore, and while there were aspects of the game I would never dare repeat if I had to do it again (Chains of Promethus when the gil sellers were hyper inflating the economy) , I still believe FFXI is one of the most well crafted MMO every produces: from graphics, to game mechanics, to story line and content.
I truly hope they dont dont change too much with FFXIV.
That is great that you had a excellent experience. But apparently your experience was not the norm, apparently most people found finding a group a absolute nightmare. Maybe not all the time but enough for people to find FFXI unenjoyable. I personally didn't run into a issue until my mid 30's as a red mage, but I had friends that were other jobs that had more issues because there jobs were much less desirable. Which is the real problem, sure finding a group isn't a issue if you play a tanker or healer but play any of the hybird classes and you can be SoL a lot of times.
As far as all your options go if it were that easy well we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The norm? There were probly more people with at least 1, usually many more, level 75 jobs than there were people without at least 1, at least on my server... so maybe its just me but most people seemed to do just fine. Also, that wasnt the complete point of my post. I wanted to point out that there were many things to keep one busy besides grinding.. all it really sounds like to me is that people that are "casual" just really want a game that they can play and be top dog in like 2 weeks. I mean I made many examples of things people could have done solo.. including leveling one of the jobs to 75 completely solo.. so I dont see how you can still down my post if you actually read it. If you wanted to solo.. or if you got tired of playing a job that nobody wants to play with, then play BST.
Furthermore, I also said I had 6 level 75 jobs.. a PLD, WAR, DRK, SAM, NIN, RNG.. and I still never sat around.. I know saying this will probly get some people mad and flaming, but I'm prepared. In FFXI, reputation was huge, so maybe the reason I never sat around is because people knew I was a good player.. maybe the reason people did not invite you is because you were not so skilled, or did not put the time into getting decent gear >.>
WoW went too far with the 'catering to casuals' aspect. They shifted from a 'great' group endgame/mid-game-play style to a completely shameful solo/casual style of play. You also have to remember that FFXIV is Japanese and that their culture is COMPLETELY different than the Western's culture, and it affects game as well. If you think this game will fail you are completely wrong. Go look at all the games SE made (yes, single-player games, but the creativity is beyond any other game that EVER existed). SE is the most likely the only company that will never let you down. In Japan its all about honor and quality. In the western world its all about greed, money, QUANTITY, and control (power).
The main failure of FFXI is the lack of things to do while in a party.
I've played FFXI for over 200 days played time on my main character. Loved it for a long time, but after a while sitting there auto attacking waiting for TP just to hit ONE SINGLE BUTTON is not fun. I'm sorry.
Maybe mages will say that they have plenty of things to do! They did! However why have 20 classes if most of them are just auto attacking and then using a single button?
Its so annoying, I've leveled Dragoon, Warrior, and a pleathora of other melee classes and frankly they're all insanely dull, even at 75. I've leveled white mage and red mage and nearly every other mage, they have a lot to do sure, but a LOT of down time until you get high level, and then it gets really repetative.
They need to make it how they are planning on making it.
"Group vs group combat" as in you fight multiple monsters at the same time, lots of mayhem and madness and action happening.
Athkore, I said in the opening thread post not to flame. So you hate westerners, fine, just keep it out of this thread.
There is an easy solution to this thought Laughing-man (by the way, cool avatar, I finally figured out what the words said on that symbol from Ghost in the Shell). Simply keep all the game mechanics from FF XI and improve on them for FF XIV. And by improve, I mean avoid casual aspects and try to make the game a wee bit easier. I can admit, the learning curve for that game was quite steep, and from reading all these posts it did suck trying to find a white mage or another important support role for your party. However, I think FF XIV should avoid doing hybrid roles (ex: Dragoon/White Mage). In my opinion, hybrid roles seem to go more towards the casual aspects rather than the hardcore (following these mechanics, of course).
I am not totally sure that FFXi isn't casual player friendly. ToAH and WoTG introduced a lot of hardcore content, but brought about a lot of casual content. Campaign (for one) was a lot of fun, I wouldn't consider campaign "hardcore" at all. A lot of people (casual and hardcore players) were more than happy to seek a party, and then go off and gain a moderate amount of exp and other bonuses in Campaign Battles. This system is a lot like Besieged, where as the players could have fun and gain a small amount of exp and help there server benefit form defending the city. If these types of systems are a precursor to the content we will see more of in FFXIV then I bet we will all be happy, but in all honesty these systems cater to casual game play. I don't see SE doing away with missions, quests and other battlefields that provide a challenge. So if they say the game will have more of a casual feel, we may have already tested the game concepts they are leaning the game towards.
because sitting for hours LFG to get a group just to grind, then dying an hour in to effectively undo your last several hours worth of work is fun!
Amirite?
Seriously, this is dumb. Keep the job system... it's the best in any mmo out. The grouping system was awesome in FFXI but being forced to do it to accomplish anything is stupid. Provide solo content, even if it's a minimal amount that requires you to do something tedious, at least provide it...
I have faith in FFXIV it might be a little more casual friendly so long as it is still community/party based then I don't mind... I will be extremely dissapointed though if it's easy to solo through the game with just grouping for "group quests" or whatever like so many other mmos.
Athkore, I said in the opening thread post not to flame. So you hate westerners, fine, just keep it out of this thread.
What? I don't hate westerners. I'm just saying that Blizzard went too far with the 'cater to casuals/soloers' aspect. It was not originally intended. Blizzard deserves to be hit on for that and you and everyone that has been to the top in WoW know that that.. They completely changed the core of the game around them. A lot of people here are trying to compare WoW to FFXI. or pointing out things are that similar ... you can't. You can't compare those games in any way. It's a disgrace to do so. And I see you did not read my post correctly as it has nothing to do with hating westerners, I'm just telling the truth.
To me it seems like this thread was made for nothing more than to oppose the "I want a brand new game and not rehash with prettier graphics" thread, because that's all this would be.
If Square-Enix decided it was worth it, if enough people would pay a couple bucks more per month for a prettier Final Fantasy XI and that the cost to reproduce FFXI or change the game from its current state to an updated version didn't set them back, they could do it. But it's been out far too long and its player pool deminishes monthly. Even adding another expansion isn't likely to bring NEW players into the game, just give its current players something to do with themselves beside camp and battle the same old stuff. Take the moogle expansion for example. Final Fantasy XI might have another year's worth of content planned out, but if it's all that level of quality, just a series of mini-expansions, who's going to be interested? I'm not buying expansions that I'm not even strong enough to explore yet, or have the time to invest in.
Bahamut recentlly merged with another server, and most servers today have about 2,000 or less playing together, which includes however many gilsellers and bots there might be. Most servers could probably be combined. When I first started playing, because there were about 4,000 on at a time, I never had a hard time finding a party. But nowadays with only 2,000 players, LevelSync instigating the elitist clique, and all the casual-friendly additions - I don't even TRY to find a party anymore. It's just easier to play solo. I've spent days in Giddeus leveling clothcraft with an invite flag & search comment without getting a single an /tell. It's actually kind of depressing compared to how active the game was when I started in '06.
Anyway the point is that they're not making Final Fantasy XIV to cater to graphics whores any more than they're making it to cater to us party-players. As hard as it was being forced to play and rely upon a party for survival WAS one of the greatest things about Final Fantasy XI. And while they've made it less harsh on those members who (for whatever reason) find themselves forced to solo, it's still a party-centric game. Moreso than any other ones out there... I don't think XIV should resemble XI in any way. I'm even upset that they're using only slightly altered races from XI (I hoped for something brand new). Some people like the similarity in the franchise; I'll admit it's that familiarity that makes me play Final Fantasy XI over World of Warcraft or any other MMORPG: The Chocobos, the Moogles, the job classes and the play style. But another theme of Final Fantasy is how drastically they all differ from one another. I've not enjoyed any sequels, prequels, or mini-stories of any game as much as the original numbered titles.
So I ask you, when you say you'd rather "keep the feel of FFXI" I wonder; what exactly IS the feel of FFXI? Are you speaking of the feel of the game as it was at day zero, or the feel of the game today? What will be the feel of FFXI tomorrow? If people want to play Final Fantasy XI, they will. The reason these two games should and will be different is because people aren't going to pay twice for two identical MMORPG's.
Even now it's still impossible to get through the main storyline without having a lv.75 (or in some cases a party of lv.75's). That's something that greatly discouraged me and made me quit for almost a year. You'd complete a mission and maybe gain a rank, then suddenly you're too weak to complete the next mission until you gained about 10 levels, which meant about a week of grinding. I understand games should take time to beat, especially MMORPG's, but there should be a more natural development and objectives for players to complete that still incorporate relevance to the story so that it does NOT have "the feel of FFXI". By the time I was strong enough to do another mission I had long since forgotten what happend earlier in the plot. Eventually the game became more about gaining levels because you basically can't do anything before Lv.75 unless you're okay with leaving it unfinished for weeks or more.
I think for Final Fantasy XIV, if they plan on making it more 'casual / solo' friendly, they should make it soloable for the main storyline with a lot more content, even if the actual story progression is slower (...a LOT slower...) and force people to form parties and some max member alliances for things like notorious monsters, elite dungeons, expansion content, and acquiring pieces of relic-armor. I would also like to see this taken literally; as in you'd have all these useless pieces of rare junk that you'd be forced to develop the crafting skill to put it together yourself. But all that is just my own wet dream...
Wow. Sorry for the great big wall o' text. I'm at work and really have nothing better to do. =/
Abraxas [365]