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Lack of social element

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  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco





     

    All in all, I will say the same again: my experiences are almost the opposite of yours, but that will not make me say that either me or you are right. What I'm rather saying is that it is definitely possible to socialize, and play with strangers in Lotro (in Snowbourn EU, at least), and with my experiences it is simply impossible to believe statements like "I had zero conversation in this game for a year", since that thing happened so easily and so naturally to myself, that the only 2 options I could imagine from someone stating this is either bullshitting, or (intentionally or not) trying to socialize in an uncommon way.

    If you read carefully, there are tons of implications in my posts stating that all this is based on my experiences. Even in my post that you replied to, I have written: "noone in the nine hells will convince me, that someone stating the "zero" comment is not lying or doing something in a totally wrong way.

    Sensing the subjectivity already?

    DB



    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.

    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095

    Seems to me like a bunch of whining from people who lack the motivation to organize their own social activities in a game, but rather want others to do it for them.  You want to socialize then get out there and put some effort into it, it's not the responsibility of other players to do it for you.

    You want a Kinship that does activities with it's player, then YOU can help organize them instead of expecting them to do it for you.

    I think one of the problems in modern games is that some older gamers used forced grouping as their primary source of social interaction and are either too lazy or too stupid to think outside of that box in today's solo friendly games.

    Just like everything in life, what you get out of it is what you put into it.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco





     

    All in all, I will say the same again: my experiences are almost the opposite of yours, but that will not make me say that either me or you are right. What I'm rather saying is that it is definitely possible to socialize, and play with strangers in Lotro (in Snowbourn EU, at least), and with my experiences it is simply impossible to believe statements like "I had zero conversation in this game for a year", since that thing happened so easily and so naturally to myself, that the only 2 options I could imagine from someone stating this is either bullshitting, or (intentionally or not) trying to socialize in an uncommon way.

    If you read carefully, there are tons of implications in my posts stating that all this is based on my experiences. Even in my post that you replied to, I have written: "noone in the nine hells will convince me, that someone stating the "zero" comment is not lying or doing something in a totally wrong way.

    Sensing the subjectivity already?

    DB



    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.

    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     



     

    Well, I'd gladly invite you to my kinship to prove that there really *are* good kinships (although it was waaay better a year ago I admit, still), there are only 2 small issues: it is in the EU :) and kinship is Hungarian-only.

    That's not saying it does not accept any other foreign members, but since all activites and chat are in hungarian (a language that is probably the most difficult in the world, but definitely in the top 5 hardest to learn :), so it does not have too much of an incentive for non-natives to join :/

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
    Originally posted by WSIMike 
     
    In short: "That wasn't my experience, so you're wrong". Is that the gist of what you're saying?



    Not quite so cut-and-dry, I'm afraid.



    I know what I experienced and I know the frustration we (a friend, his girlfriend and myself) experienced in trying to get Kin members involved with helping each other out, etc. It was an uphill fight the entire time. Everyone wanted to just do their own thing and only spoke up when they needed something.



    PUGs weren't any better. I don't know what it's like now, it could have changed. But I know that when I was playing actively, as was my good friend, we *did* try... We used the in-game group functions, we actively sought out people to try and help out... and we'd help out others looking for people. It was the same thing every time. They'd join up only if they needed the same quest(s) we were on, and were gone as soon as they got what they needed; they stuck around only as long as there was something in it for them. There was barely any talking and hardly anyone ever remained in contact afterwards.



    I come from FFXI, a game where communication and community are very important to get *a lot* done...  Aside from that, my friend, his girlfriend and I have all also played Lineage 2 for a few yearst, another game where helping other players out and not being "me me me" is quite important as well. So believe me, I know how to go about talking to people and searching for members for groups. None of us are anti-social or lazy about trying to get involved with the community in a given game. We tried to get involved, tried to build and participate in Kinships... We did everything we could, using every in-game function we could. Most people - in our experience - were too wrapped up in their own progress to be bothered.



    I don't know what it's like now... maybe it's improved a lot. But at the time, the anti-social, self-centered and clique-ish behavior of many in that game is what drove all three of us away, time and again. It wasn't the game itself... we loved the game, and still do.
     
     

     

    You will never find the kind of communication and closeness of a group oriented game like FF in a largely solo oriented game like LoTRo.  Fact is that virtually all games are going the solo route so the style of close communication and long lasting relationship developed from group oriented games will be a thing of the past.  I'd say that there are few people that even understand what you are talking about.  I've played pretty much all games, I didnt' play FF much.  But no game has the social environment that I was used to in eq.  That was similar I think to what you are talking about in FF.  You would get a group and stay together for 5-6 hours.  You would develop close friendships. 

    I'm not sure about LoTRO because I'm new to it but the high lvl game might give you more of what you want.  In eq2 I get some group oriented play doing instances and raids.

    ---
    Ethion

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco





     

    All in all, I will say the same again: my experiences are almost the opposite of yours, but that will not make me say that either me or you are right. What I'm rather saying is that it is definitely possible to socialize, and play with strangers in Lotro (in Snowbourn EU, at least), and with my experiences it is simply impossible to believe statements like "I had zero conversation in this game for a year", since that thing happened so easily and so naturally to myself, that the only 2 options I could imagine from someone stating this is either bullshitting, or (intentionally or not) trying to socialize in an uncommon way.

    If you read carefully, there are tons of implications in my posts stating that all this is based on my experiences. Even in my post that you replied to, I have written: "noone in the nine hells will convince me, that someone stating the "zero" comment is not lying or doing something in a totally wrong way.

    Sensing the subjectivity already?

    DB



    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.

    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     



     

    Well, I'd gladly invite you to my kinship to prove that there really *are* good kinships (although it was waaay better a year ago I admit, still), there are only 2 small issues: it is in the EU :) and kinship is Hungarian-only.

    That's not saying it does not accept any other foreign members, but since all activites and chat are in hungarian (a language that is probably the most difficult in the world, but definitely in the top 5 hardest to learn :), so it does not have too much of an incentive for non-natives to join :/

    DB

     

    Might just take you up on that :)



    Always good chatting with ya, DB.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • YeeboYeebo Member Posts: 1,359
    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.
    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     

     

    You have made several references to FFXI in your posts.  The fact of the matter is that LoTRO is much more solo oriented than FFXI.  Players group when they feel like it (rather than because they have to to get anything done), and PuGs usually form around a specific objective or set of objectives.  If you are looking for "group or die" style play, FFXI is pretty much the only MMO that offers it. 

    It's not that that the players of LoTRO aren't social.  In my experience they are more social (and mature) than 90% of the MMOs I've tried.  That may reflect the fact that you are encouraged to find groups for the best quest rewards.  However, you are comparing the social dynamics of LoTRO to FFXI, pretty much the only mainstream forced grouping MMO left on the market.  It's not going to feel the same at all. 

    I also find your use of over the top hyperboly ("never had a conversation?") a bit surprising, you are a usually a pretty straight shooter.  I suppose you may have found an abortion of a server (some of the European ones are rumored to be well and truly dead), but your experience is nowhere near mine in modern or olden LoTRO (last played a week ago).

    As an aside:  if you still have WAR installed on your PC you might give it another shot.  Restart on one of the three crowded servers and you may find it to be more to your liking than it was at launch.  PvP is pretty much a group activity (unless you are suicidal), so you find a pretty dynamic and engaging (if occasionally somewhat WoWish in zone chat) social environment.   The PvE is still pretty much the worst among modern big budget MMOs in my experience (I wish I were using over the top hyperbole), but I've been having a lot of fun just leveling via scenarios and RvR lately.  Just be prepared to quit once you hit tier III, it starts to drag then imo.  But still, a solid month or two of fun.

    I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by Yeebo

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.
    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     

     

    You have made several references to FFXI in your posts.  The fact of the matter is that LoTRO is much more solo oriented than FFXI.  Players group when they feel like it (rather than because they have to to get anything done), and PuGs usually form around a specific objective or set of objectives.  If you are looking for "group or die" style play, FFXI is pretty much the only MMO that offers it. 

    It's not that that the players of LoTRO aren't social.  In my experience they are more social (and mature) than 90% of the MMOs I've tried.  That may reflect the fact that you are encouraged to find groups for the best quest rewards.  However, you are comparing the social dynamics of LoTRO to FFXI, pretty much the only mainstream forced grouping MMO left on the market.  It's not going to feel the same at all. 

    I also find your use of over the top hyperboly ("never had a conversation?") a bit surprising, you are a usually a pretty straight shooter.  I suppose you may have found an abortion of a server (some of the European ones are rumored to be well and truly dead), but your experience is nowhere near mine in modern or olden LoTRO (last played a week ago).

    As an aside:  if you still have WAR installed on your PC you might give it another shot.  Restart on one of the three crowded servers and you may find it to be more to your liking than it was at launch.  PvP is pretty much a group activity (unless you are suicidal), so you find a pretty dynamic and engaging (if occasionally somewhat WoWish in zone chat) social environment.   The PvE is still pretty much the worst among modern big budget MMOs in my experience (I wish I were using over the top hyperbole), but I've been having a lot of fun just leveling via scenarios and RvR lately.  Just be prepared to quit once you hit tier III, it starts to drag then imo.  But still, a solid month or two of fun.

    Hey, in Mike's defense, he actually never had a statement like "I had zero conversation". This was said by someone else, who does absolutely nothing else but complain about LOTRO in each and every single one of his comments, so we know how to take his opinion (not a pinch, but rather with a wagonload of salt) :D

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by Yeebo

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).



    I can only speak to my own experiences, and obviously it's going to be subjective... It's what I've experienced. And, in my experience, the anti-social nature of people in LoTRO has been quite prevalent. Has everyone I've met been anti-social?  Nope. Has 100% of my experience been bad? Nope.. but the vast majority of it has been, enough so to push me away from the game after giving it a go several times.



    Could be that I just had *that* bad of luck finding people. Could be that Firefoot, at least at that time, was a crappy server in that regard. Could be that Jupiter and Saturn were out of alignment... who knows why it was the way it was. I'm only reporting on what I  and friends of mine experienced in our times playing.
    However, I do think there are good groups out there, somewhere. It'spartially why I had this statement in my initial post:

    "If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it."

     

     

    You have made several references to FFXI in your posts.  The fact of the matter is that LoTRO is much more solo oriented than FFXI.  Players group when they feel like it (rather than because they have to to get anything done), and PuGs usually form around a specific objective or set of objectives.  If you are looking for "group or die" style play, FFXI is pretty much the only MMO that offers it. 

    It's not that that the players of LoTRO aren't social.  In my experience they are more social (and mature) than 90% of the MMOs I've tried.  That may reflect the fact that you are encouraged to find groups for the best quest rewards.  However, you are comparing the social dynamics of LoTRO to FFXI, pretty much the only mainstream forced grouping MMO left on the market.  It's not going to feel the same at all. 

    I also find your use of over the top hyperboly ("never had a conversation?") a bit surprising, you are a usually a pretty straight shooter.  I suppose you may have found an abortion of a server (some of the European ones are rumored to be well and truly dead), but your experience is nowhere near mine in modern or olden LoTRO (last played a week ago).

    As an aside:  if you still have WAR installed on your PC you might give it another shot.  Restart on one of the three crowded servers and you may find it to be more to your liking than it was at launch.  PvP is pretty much a group activity (unless you are suicidal), so you find a pretty dynamic and engaging (if occasionally somewhat WoWish in zone chat) social environment.   The PvE is still pretty much the worst among modern big budget MMOs in my experience (I wish I were using over the top hyperbole), but I've been having a lot of fun just leveling via scenarios and RvR lately.  Just be prepared to quit once you hit tier III, it starts to drag then imo.  But still, a solid month or two of fun.

    As DB stated.. I never said I never had a conversation. I said people seldom talked to people outside their cliques, or seldom spoke at all, unless they needed something. I also stated that people in a new kin would be great to you when you were still new, but once the novelty wore off, they sorta forgot you existed and went back to their routines.



    That said, I just want to clarify something...



    Please read this following bit again, it's the bit in my first post in this thread where I reference FFXI. Note the *context* I'm using FFXI and Lineage 2 in:



    "I come from FFXI, a game where communication and community are very important to get *a lot* done... Aside from that, my friend, his girlfriend and I have all also played Lineage 2 for a few yearst, another game where helping other players out and not being "me me me" is quite important as well. So believe me, I know how to go about talking to people and searching for members for groups. None of us are anti-social or lazy about trying to get involved with the community in a given game."




    I'm using FFXI and L2 merely as a way to illustrate that I'm not anti-social and that I do seek out others to communicate and cooperate and do stuff with; that I am not the anti-social type who seeks out the darkest corner to linger in (figuratively speaking), nor the type that sits around and waits for people to come to me, complaining when they don't. I *do* seek out community and use whatever tools I can in-game to try and get involved and be pro-active.



    I said this because one or two suggestions were made that I didn't do enough in LoTRO to find the community I was looking for - and that simply isn't true.



    I never said I wanted LoTRO to be more like FFXI... That some seem to take that away from it isn't my problem.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • YeeboYeebo Member Posts: 1,359
    Originally posted by WSIMike



    As DB stated.. I never said I never had a conversation. I said people seldom talked to people outside their cliques, or seldom spoke at all, unless they needed something. I also stated that people in a new kin would be great to you when you were still new, but once the novelty wore off, they sorta forgot you existed and went back to their routines.



    That said, I just want to clarify something...



    Please read this following bit again, it's the bit in my first post in this thread where I reference FFXI. Note the *context* I'm using FFXI and Lineage 2 in:



    "I come from FFXI, a game where communication and community are very important to get *a lot* done... Aside from that, my friend, his girlfriend and I have all also played Lineage 2 for a few yearst, another game where helping other players out and not being "me me me" is quite important as well. So believe me, I know how to go about talking to people and searching for members for groups. None of us are anti-social or lazy about trying to get involved with the community in a given game."




    I'm using FFXI and L2 merely as a way to illustrate that I'm not anti-social and that I do seek out others to communicate and cooperate and do stuff with; that I am not the anti-social type who seeks out the darkest corner to linger in (figuratively speaking), nor the type that sits around and waits for people to come to me, complaining when they don't. I *do* seek out community and use whatever tools I can in-game to try and get involved and be pro-active.



    I said this because one or two suggestions were made that I didn't do enough in LoTRO to find the community I was looking for - and that simply isn't true.



    I never said I wanted LoTRO to be more like FFXI... That some seem to take that away from it isn't my problem.

    Ahh, that's a bit more clear.  I'll admit I didn't read through the entire thread, so i did take your reference to FFXI out of context..

    My personal experience was that there was a large element of luck involved in finding a good KS.  I went through three before I found one that was active and supported my play style.  Even in that one I eventually ended up leaving because I thought one of the officers treated a friend of mine poorly (he got dumped from the parallel creep KS without explanation...a few weeks later it turned out to be an honest mistake, but we were both gone by then) .  We both moved to a smaller KS that had been trying to recruit us (met some of the officers in a random PuG that went really well).  There are only about ten active players, but we all know each other and have the same goals in game.  I'd say from launch to my current KS was at least six months. Been in it ever since.  

    Not sure if you will find my experience encouraging or discouraging :-)

     

     

    Edit: also, apologies for putting words into your mouth.  I never meant to imply that you want LoTRO to be a Tolkien themed FFXI, I didn't take that away from any of your comments. 

    My initial response may have been a bit poorly worded.  My main point was due to the structure of the game LoTRO simply isn't going to have the same kind of social cohesion that FFXI has.  I personally don't like being forced to group, but at the same time I can see that most modern MMOs just don't have the close knit social dynamics of launch EQ or modern FFXI (that was the point I was trying to make...not that forced grouping is "te suxxors" or something like that).  Like anything, having a lot of solo content in your game is a trade-off. 

    You can also encourage social cohesion by focusing your endgame on RvR or guild warfare.  Even in WAR, despite the fact that the community isn't generally as mature as in LoTRO (I see a lot of WoW style BS in open chat channels), I do see stronger overall social cohesion due to the "us versus them" mentality the game encourages.  In /regional you see a lot more "Order storming keep X, reinforcements needed!" and less "Where do I find farmer Bob's cow?" 

     

    I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by Yeebo


     
    Edit: also, apologies for putting words into your mouth.  I never meant to imply that you want LoTRO to be a Tolkien themed FFXI, I didn't take that away from any of your comments. 
    My initial response may have been a bit poorly worded.  My main point was due to the structure of the game LoTRO simply isn't going to have the same kind of social cohesion that FFXI has.  I personally don't like being forced to group, but at the same time I can see that most modern MMOs just don't have the close knit social dynamics of launch EQ or modern FFXI (that was the point I was trying to make...not that forced grouping is "te suxxors" or something like that).  Like anything, having a lot of solo content in your game is a trade-off. 
    You can also encourage social cohesion by focusing your endgame on RvR or guild warfare.  Even in WAR, despite the fact that the community isn't generally as mature as in LoTRO (I see a lot of WoW style BS in open chat channels), I do see stronger overall social cohesion due to the "us versus them" mentality the game encourages.  In /regional you see a lot more "Order storming keep X, reinforcements needed!" and less "Where do I find farmer Bob's cow?" 


     

     

    Heheh, it's fine.. No apologies necessary. I know from experience that you and DonnieBrasco are two of the more level-headed people around here, so it's cool. We all make mistakes.



    Like I said, my reference of those other games was more to establish myself as someone who enjoys the social element of MMOs, talking with others, grouping up, etc.

    You know it's funny... I've had my LoTRO and WAR boxes sitting on my desk here, staring at me... because I was trying to figure out which one I wanted to give another try.



    WAR intrigues me because I haven't played it much and so a lot of it would still be new to me. I love being brand-new in a new game, not knowing where anything is, etc. I also rather like the art style of the game. The downside to it is that my first experiences with it were underwhelming... I didn't feel like I was part of a world at all in that game; everything seems laid out specifically as playfields in a game. I never felt an urge to explore and what exploring I did yielded very few "rewards" (discovering a new spot, etc) for it. Also, people racing up through the lower tiers so fast that I was forever finding PQ spots empty, etc. World chat was quiet - I think due to the way it was set up at first, but I think they've improved it since then.



    LoTRO is a strong consideration because I love the environments (I think it has the best environment design of any MMO I've played; and I've always been a fan of Turbine's dungeon design - the ones I went through in DDO are amazing). Also, unlike WAR, LoTRO feels like a world... I can't tell you how many times I've looked off into the distance, saw some interesting looking structure, thought "hmm.. wonder what's over there?" and wandered off.. to find myself "lost" (as lost as you can be with a map handy) in some remote area.



    In all, exploration in LoTRO is forever rewarding... whether it's some amazing vista from a high cliff-top, some interesting ruins, some obscure detail lifted from the pages of the LoTR books, some location I never knew existed, etc... "losing your feet" (as Bilbo would put it) is almost always worthwhile. The downside, as I've explained, is that the community in my times playing it has been less than inspiring... I think if I could find myself in a "perfect" (read: ideal) Kinship, that LoTRO could be a runner-up for my "main MMO" (at least 'til FFXIV comes out :-p).

    So.. as we speak.. I'm patching LoTRO heheh.



    Now my decision is a toss-up between picking up where I left off with my existing character... or start off brand-new on a different server, perhaps one of the servers that are considered the more active/friendly. We shall see.

     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757

    I think you should start off fresh, with a new class maybe? It looks like a nice idea, since as we heard, the starting regions have been revamped, or at least the quests/mobs have. This makes even myself to feel like starting my 7th toon :)) Heck, i do enjoy the first levels of MMO's the most, usually.... where development is quick, inventories are easy to manage, goals are few and straight-forward.... no factions/crafting guilds etc etc :)) and the thrill of "I can become anything, like... famous and all" :DDD

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 Member UncommonPosts: 421

    Lotro is a PVE game. If you want realm vs realm, you should have bought a different game.

    Stop trying to make every game exactly the same as every other game. 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,517
    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco





     

    All in all, I will say the same again: my experiences are almost the opposite of yours, but that will not make me say that either me or you are right. What I'm rather saying is that it is definitely possible to socialize, and play with strangers in Lotro (in Snowbourn EU, at least), and with my experiences it is simply impossible to believe statements like "I had zero conversation in this game for a year", since that thing happened so easily and so naturally to myself, that the only 2 options I could imagine from someone stating this is either bullshitting, or (intentionally or not) trying to socialize in an uncommon way.

    If you read carefully, there are tons of implications in my posts stating that all this is based on my experiences. Even in my post that you replied to, I have written: "noone in the nine hells will convince me, that someone stating the "zero" comment is not lying or doing something in a totally wrong way.

    Sensing the subjectivity already?

    DB



    Well I figure it's not that way for everyone... I see people who talk about being in great Kinships who do a lot, etc (though I do also wonder if they're part of that "clique" who does everything together... cynical, I know).

     

     

    Nailed it on the head I'm afraid.  Most people in any game who claim there's no social problems are usually part of this group in the guild and they just don't see the problem the other members have.  (not in all guilds of course)

    The watch the fringe members turn over on a regular basis and always assume its the other peoples fault, because they certainly don't have any issues.

    In fact,when I've raised the issue in some guilds the leaders have sometimes gone so far as to suggest I need to form my own "group" to hang with as they enjoy playing with each other and can't really accomodate others.  This has often been followed with a suggestion that if I don't like it perhaps I should leave.  (An offer that I always accept when made.)

    But I'll agree, for a modern MMO, LotRO is probably the best for social interaction, but only because the player base goes out of their way to force it to work.

    Almost no modern MMO is designed to encourage (OK, almost force) cooperative group play like early DAOC or FFXI did.   Yes, you can group in all games, but in most their is little incentive to do so.

     

     

     

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DrakkhenDrakkhen Member Posts: 195

    This game used to have a top notch community. From closed beta until about a year ago it was amazing,  but that's not the case anymore. The community is very cliquish, paranoid, overly rude, snobbish, "holier than thou" ... I think you get the point :P.

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Member UncommonPosts: 697
    Originally posted by Drakkhen


     The community is very cliquish, paranoid, overly rude, snobbish, "holier than thou" ... I think you get the point :P.



     

    I could not disagree more.  I am on Elendilmir and the community is none of the things you mention, except for the occassional oddball.   You get what you put into MMO socialization.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Yeah I have to agree with Skooma, although maybe it depends on the server because I play on Elendilmir as well.  Although to be fair Skooma, while I disagree with Drakkhen you have to admit at least chat wise global lff chat gets rather idiotic at times.  Heh, I think we have more than our fair share of "oddballs" but overall the community is rather helpful and very friendly besides the need at times to turn global channels into Barrens chat.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Jeff44Jeff44 Member Posts: 459

    I have not managed to read all the posts here in this thread, but has anyone said "Go back to WOW, then" yet?

    Oh, they have?

    Well then. Carry on.

     

    user
  • KexoKexo Member Posts: 84

    I just came back to LOTRO after playing for 3 months after launch and I have to agree with the OP. Nobody talk in this game, people just go on with their business soloing or doing in things in their guild groups. Even in Bree I see a lot of people running around town and not a thing was said in local for 30 mins. The grouping aspect is even worst and it reminded me why I left in the first place. There is no satisfaction in grouping at all. Most groups would form to do a quest or two then simply disband as people go back to soloing. Overall it create the impression of a boring and lifeless game world.

  • LeodiousLeodious Member UncommonPosts: 773

    Aren't there RP guilds or something, at least on Landroval? The community in any game like this will be primarily focused in the guilds. Guilds hang out together and talk to each other. There will be much, much more conversation in OOC in high level zones, because that is just how games work: people congregate in the higher, harder, greater-reward zones. I think the community for this game is one of the most active, helpful, and mature. Don't sell it short, if you like the game itself.

    "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

    — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615
    Originally posted by Leodious


    Aren't there RP guilds or something, at least on Landroval? The community in any game like this will be primarily focused in the guilds. Guilds hang out together and talk to each other. There will be much, much more conversation in OOC in high level zones, because that is just how games work: people congregate in the higher, harder, greater-reward zones. I think the community for this game is one of the most active, helpful, and mature. Don't sell it short, if you like the game itself.

     



    The OP is just wrong. There are more social events in this game than any other, entire groups created just too play music, full guilds that throw parties and events. In fact, for a theme park game, there are more sandbox social elements than any other. There is always some group at the prancing pony, there is almost always someone playing music in the crafting halls.

     

    OCC is simply not the place all this happens. Try local chat, or kinship, look for event announcements on server forums.

    I half think what the op seems to be calling "Social element" is the lack of "Wow sucks" talk in some global chat. (There is no global chat in LOTRO officially)

    There is even an entire social networking site for the game, every player toon gets its on mylotro page. So, the OP is crazy.

     

     

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • Mari2kMari2k Member UncommonPosts: 367

    The problem is...

     

    People that never played FF11 or early daoc just dont understand what grouping thouse in mmos means. In this games the first thing you did when you log on and want to level up, was looking for a group. When you had a group you went to a spot and start to pull mobs... and this you do for hours, or till the group disband. Your goal was not a acomplich a quest , it was just to get exp with killing a lot of mobs.... some people , especialy the who started their mmo-life with WOW or Everquest are not used to this kind of gaming and see this as boring grinding, but for me it was way more Fun that solo-quest-grinding, couse you where never alone, meet new people, develop taktiks, aso.

    Roleplaying, Events, Giuld-Aktivitiys ect. are socielizig things, but they are not the core of the game. The core is to level up till max level, and if you can do it solo faster then in group... most people will choose the faster way.... that just the nature of human.

     

     

  • IonselonIonselon Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by vistakah


    I've played this game for about 6 months total. The game is very beautiful, wonderful lore and storyline but nothing a single player offline game doesn't do better. I've lived through the beginning of MMO history and seen greatness as well as the decline of the social aspect in MMO's. Warhammer really set the nail in the coffin showing hordes the way MMO gaming is/has changed.
    Coming from many years of DAOC among just about every other MMO title ever made i can say that team or realm based social elements far exceed simple PVE online games. Think about it how accomplishing can it be to kill 1 gazillion PVE elements year after year.  Once you've conquered the boss of all bosses in any game its pretty much the same in every other game.
    LOTRO makes you feel like your in a world alone. Every once in awhile somebody talks in chat. You don't need a soul to level in this game which is bad. Their is no competitive element for human interaction in this game. Their is nothing in this game to put you in the path of other players when its all said and done and thats one thing i disklike most about LOTRO and all modern day MMO's

    You're obviously playing a different LotRO than I am.  Chat is active, towns are full of people, people looking for groups.  What game did you say you were playing???

  • Einherjar_LCEinherjar_LC Member UncommonPosts: 1,055
    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).

     

    Sorry, I as well have to call B.S. on this.

     

    You play on one of the most social servers, Landroval. 

    I play there as well and there are constantly events going on, etc.  It is a great community and VERY friendly.

    As for chat, I cannot keep up with the chat scrolling through my chat box.....maybe you have channels turned off and are unaware.  Also, try joining the glff, or gooc channels.

     

    I'm not really sure what else can be said other than I have seen you complain on the official forums and here, but yet you've played the game for a year.  Do you like to just complain for complaining's sake or are you a masochist?

     

    As for the OP, your expectations are so far off it's ridiculous.

    LOTRO doesn't have RvR or a significant PvP environment, so coming to this game expecting that and being disappointed is like going to hell and being disappointed there's no snow.

    It's never been billed as that type of game and they have been very clear that any PvP is a side game.

    This game is very clearly about the journey/story and the social interactions along the way.

    Hardcore PvP people will not find a comfortable home here.

    Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102
    Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).

     

    Sorry, I as well have to call B.S. on this.

     

    You play on one of the most social servers, Landroval. 

    I play there as well and there are constantly events going on, etc.  It is a great community and VERY friendly.

    As for chat, I cannot keep up with the chat scrolling through my chat box.....maybe you have channels turned off and are unaware.  Also, try joining the glff, or gooc channels.

     

    I'm not really sure what else can be said other than I have seen you complain on the official forums and here, but yet you've played the game for a year.  Do you like to just complain for complaining's sake or are you a masochist?

     

     



     

    Trancejeremy lives in his own little world where its impossible to find quests and people in LotrO, just ignore him...We have tried to help him and be friendly but it seems like he just likes to complain.

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

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