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Lack of social element

I've played this game for about 6 months total. The game is very beautiful, wonderful lore and storyline but nothing a single player offline game doesn't do better. I've lived through the beginning of MMO history and seen greatness as well as the decline of the social aspect in MMO's. Warhammer really set the nail in the coffin showing hordes the way MMO gaming is/has changed.

Coming from many years of DAOC among just about every other MMO title ever made i can say that team or realm based social elements far exceed simple PVE online games. Think about it how accomplishing can it be to kill 1 gazillion PVE elements year after year.  Once you've conquered the boss of all bosses in any game its pretty much the same in every other game.

LOTRO makes you feel like your in a world alone. Every once in awhile somebody talks in chat. You don't need a soul to level in this game which is bad. Their is no competitive element for human interaction in this game. Their is nothing in this game to put you in the path of other players when its all said and done and thats one thing i disklike most about LOTRO and all modern day MMO's

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Comments

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888

    It seems quite a bit quieter esp in the low level areas.  The reason is that chat is not game wide but is zone wide.  So when you start a character in the shire for example and talk in /ooc only people in the shire can hear you.

    I was thinking the same thing as you until I got to bree and started seeing more chatter.  From what I've heard when you get to the high end of the game there are lots of people and lots of chatter.

     

    ---
    Ethion

  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203

    Been quite a while since I last played LOTRO, but I have to say I never felt that lack of social aspect. On the contrary, playing on an RP server and in an active guild  made LOTRO one of the most - if not *the* most - socially intense and interactive MMOs I've ever played. Activities, festivities, contests, guild-wide quest cleanup days, guild monster play sessions, heck, even *jam sessions*! :) (You especially gotta love spontaneous ones) Not to mention dungeons... Pretty good game to roll on an RP server if you're not totally against the concept. 

    Can't speak about normal PVE servers, though.

     

  • LethalBurstLethalBurst Member UncommonPosts: 367

    I have had more social interaction in LoTRO than in any other MMO I've ever played, so I'm not sure what the OP is getting on about.

     

    OP... try playing past level 10.

  • SwampRobSwampRob Member UncommonPosts: 1,003
    Originally posted by vistakah


    I've played this game for about 6 months total. The game is very beautiful, wonderful lore and storyline but nothing a single player offline game doesn't do better. I've lived through the beginning of MMO history and seen greatness as well as the decline of the social aspect in MMO's. Warhammer really set the nail in the coffin showing hordes the way MMO gaming is/has changed.
    Coming from many years of DAOC among just about every other MMO title ever made i can say that team or realm based social elements far exceed simple PVE online games. Think about it how accomplishing can it be to kill 1 gazillion PVE elements year after year.  Once you've conquered the boss of all bosses in any game its pretty much the same in every other game.
    LOTRO makes you feel like your in a world alone. Every once in awhile somebody talks in chat. You don't need a soul to level in this game which is bad. Their is no competitive element for human interaction in this game. Their is nothing in this game to put you in the path of other players when its all said and done and thats one thing i disklike most about LOTRO and all modern day MMO's

     

    You need to back off on the hyperbole.    "You don't need a soul to level in this game"?   I didn't realize that was a requirement for gaming.   Guess I'll have to tell my lord Satan I quit, because I want to continue gaming.

  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,751

    vistakah

    It really sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges just based on your word choices; 'team or realm based social elements & competitive element'.  

    Since LotRO isn't a RvR based Pvp game like DAoC or a competition between players for anything.  Why would you even think it should have those features?

    One of the other posters gave a very good example of the social side of the game so there is social interaction and as it's not anykind of e-peen contest there won't be any competitive element in the game.

    Personally as one that plays on either the 3rd or 4th lowest population server (Firefoot) I'm forever running into other players in the most out of the way spots and constantly seeing calls for groups in chat, both of which contradict your  'feel like your in a world alone' statement.

    How anyone could play for 6 months and not see what I have is amazing unless you've spent the entire time in the 'moors looking for Pvp in a non-Pvp game.

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter

  • levsixlevsix Member UncommonPosts: 363

    I'm more of an old timer when it comes to gaming, having started in MUDs. I can't count the number of online games and MMOs I have played. Without a doubt, LOTRO has been one of the most social games I've ever experienced.

    You need to find a kinship that is not filled with a bunch of silent people as there are many. My guild/kinship has always held interesting events for the purpose of getting to know one another. We've had a Christmas party where we got drunk and competed in a swimming match (in lotro drinking alcohol makes your screen go all blurry and crazy) to chicken races through wolf infested areas. It probably sounds pretty lame when it is written out but when you have 15-30 people together for events and do entertaining or original things it is a blast.

    Of course, we also do a lot of the content together.  Our kinship puts a premium on social interaction and communication. It makes the game ten times more enjoyable when you're hanging out with people who engage in conversation and are there to have a good time.

    I'd recommend that you find a kinship that has that kind of approach if you haven't already quit. In addition to that, people are generally quite helpful and I've never played another game where getting together a pug for content is more easy. I'm on Meneldor. Send me a message here if you're still playing or looking to meet people in LOTRO who aren't silent gerbils.

     

     

     

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  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935

    There are actually global channels you can subscribe to that are quite active with conversation.  Look around and you'll see what I'm talking about.

  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,187
    Originally posted by grimal


    There are actually global channels you can subscribe to that are quite active with conversation.  Look around and you'll see what I'm talking about.

     

    Yes, I just learned this myself two days ago. I HAD NO IDEA there was a Global Looking for Fellowship Channel lol. At least there is on the Landroval Server.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935

    Yep.  That's what I was referring to.  It's a well kept secret (not sure why), but once you join it...that's where everyone talks.

  • FikusOfAhaziFikusOfAhazi Member Posts: 1,835

     I thought doing simple things like having a person playing music in certain spots to reduce your dread after death a little quicker would be nice. It's not like dread mattered in 95% of the game anyway. But, stairway to heaven healing dread was shot down pretty fast lol. I can see why. There are other ways than competition to have social interaction, which this game could have used and didnt. Fishing, housing (a little bit there), crafting ect... Something to do with others in your downtime, and there is downtime already...but, it's still a great game. things like that may hurt it more than help, i don't know. Turbine always did a good job, so I trust them to make the call. However, we started logging off in downtime more and more, and logging in less. We probably played too much anyway. My wife did for sure hehe.

    See you in the dream..
    The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.

  • solareussolareus Member Posts: 3,165

    LotRO is the mile stones above any other mmo when it comes to social networking from friends lists, to gathering people for a quest. The emotes and music system bring people together , and I've personally never played a game where I felt inclined to particspate in actingo ut my character with other in a game envirnoment.

     

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • NizurNizur Member CommonPosts: 1,417

    While there are things about LotRO I don't like, the social aspect of the game was one of its strong points. The community in LotRO is outstanding. Friendly, helpful and supportive. Out of all the MMOs I've played, I would say LotRO is #1 community-wise, imo.

    Current: None
    Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
    Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
    Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    I have mix feelings. The community is friendly and above most other MMOs.. the problem is.. with few dungeons and the ability to easily skip group quest ect... the interaction is pretty low on that game as you level which has been a bit dissapointing to me.

    image

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Member UncommonPosts: 697

    The fact that you CAN solo most of y our way from level one to level 60, does not mean you HAVE to solo the content.  Have you sought out others to join you in knocking out quests?  Have you sought to START a group for quests in whatever area you happen to find yourself?   Also, did you ever go hang out in front of the Prancing Pony or 21st Hall just to shoot the bull with other people?  Are you in a kinship?    There are many, many ways for social interaction in this game; you just have to utilize them.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • DaurenneDaurenne Member Posts: 2

     I actually find the chat box itself quite clunky to use but haven't really found any obvious reason as to why, I'm used to being able to play/move/fight and chat at the same time (one handed typing skills anyone?) but in LOTRO I do actually have to stop, type a sentence, kill whatever has been threatening me and move on. Not sure if anyone else struggles with this or whether I'm just being hopeless! 

    Social interaction wise, I've not reached top level so my opinion will be biased anyway but the reduced chatter may be something iinked to there being more to do in LOTRO .. think mining events,gate camping in Eve or waiting for a raidspot in WoW .. there is a *lot* of sitting about. 

    In reply to the OP - you generally get out of  community what you put in.

     

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.

    Try /joinchannel glff

    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.

    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • trancejeremytrancejeremy Member UncommonPosts: 1,222
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).

    R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935

    Played a year and had zero conversation with a single person?  I'm sorry, but I have never had that experience with this game...actually, quite the opposite.  I don't feel the game is clique-ish at all. Join the channel, start chatting.  It's not like they "ignore" you unless you have actually quested with them (that, in my mind would be clique-ish).

    I have found LOTRO to be the most helpful and positive communities in any MMO that I have played to date.

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by trancejeremy


     I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.
     

    And that cannot be your fault by any means, naturally it is everybody else's mistake.

    Nuff said :)

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • ZtekanZtekan Member Posts: 261

    World Of Warcraft is a better PVE PVP game with richer pve touch and basicly a little better than LOTRO.

    But due to the social experience ive encountered i will never play Wow agian, LOTRO on line has it all when it comes to the social aspect.

    LOTRO is a great game

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  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    I'm one of those too that played for a few months, thought it was gorgeous, impressed with the high polish of the client and gameplay in general. Quit however in part due to not likeing the experience of being shoe-horned into a storyline I'm all to familiar with, and also because of the social scene which wasn't as vibrant as I would have liked, though I think that is in part due to the storyline being so static and rigid.

    However I'm beginning to think that a vibrant social dynamic is down across the board in MMO's cause frankly not enough people want that anymore.  Times and the genre has changed. For the worse in my opinion, but nothing I can do but not play.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).



    In my experience, even being in a Kin doesn't necessarily mean anything, as many Kins I've joined have been very clique-ish as well. There's that core group that does everything together (usually comprised of the leader, officers and their closest friends), and then everyone else is just sorta... there.

    If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it. In my experience in LoTRO, though, that's been very difficult to find a group like that.



    A friend of mine has tried LoTRO several times... joined kins and left a few weeks later 'cause no one talked... those who did talk would tend to ignore him or anyone else who wasn't in their clique. He tried forming a Kin during one period and worked really hard at making it a fun group where everyone was involved, everyone got help, we'd schedule events to help members finish up quests, books, etc... Didn't make a difference. People didn't participate, barely talked and didn't bother grouping (because you seldom have to in LoTRO). The only time people spoke up is when they needed help... when it came to them being asked to help someone else out, unless there was something in it for them, they weren't interested.



    They would eventually leave without a word. Finally he deemed LoTRO "The Anti-Social MMO" and gave up on it completely. I can't say I blame him... I've all but given up on LoTRO largely for the extremely clique-ish and anti-social behavior I've experienced in it.



    So yeah... it's easy to say "just join a Kin", but when the kins you join are as anti-social as the general chat channels... kinda hard to remain optimistic.



     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).



    In my experience, even being in a Kin doesn't necessarily mean anything, as many Kins I've joined have been very clique-ish as well. There's that core group that does everything together (usually comprised of the leader, officers and their closest friends), and then everyone else is just sorta... there.

    If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it. In my experience in LoTRO, though, that's been very difficult to find a group like that.



    A friend of mine has tried LoTRO several times... joined kins and left a few weeks later 'cause no one talked... those who did talk would tend to ignore him or anyone else who wasn't in their clique. He tried forming a Kin during one period and worked really hard at making it a fun group where everyone was involved, everyone got help, we'd schedule events to help members finish up quests, books, etc... Didn't make a difference. People didn't participate, barely talked and didn't bother grouping (because you seldom have to in LoTRO). The only time people spoke up is when they needed help... when it came to them being asked to help someone else out, unless there was something in it for them, they weren't interested.



    They would eventually leave without a word. Finally he deemed LoTRO "The Anti-Social MMO" and gave up on it completely. I can't say I blame him... I've all but given up on LoTRO largely for the extremely clique-ish and anti-social behavior I've experienced in it.



    So yeah... it's easy to say "just join a Kin", but when the kins you join are as anti-social as the general chat channels... kinda hard to remain optimistic.



     

    I am in a great kinship that has a website with a java-based raid and epic quest organizer....

     

    Still - I have been doing 90% of my epic quests with PUG's. Still up to today, I can find a PUG to each and every FS quests whenever I wish to do them. The longest time I waited for a group was over a year ago in Forochel for one of the last epic quests in book 13 or 14 (?) in V1.. it was about an hour.

    Normally, it takes 2-15 minutes to find a group. For any quests.

    If anyone complains about having a hard time to find groups, it inevitably raises the issue: is he/she trying properly? Does he/she know HOW to do that?

    If anyone says they had zero conversation with anyone else in the game - I am sorry, noone in the nine hells could convince me that it is not pure bullshit. OR - that is how this person really wanted things to be.

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    I'm willing to bet most that feel this way probably aren't using the global channels.  A lot seem to use this for grouping albeit would be nice if something besides the glff channel was used by some for babbling away about shit no one else cares about.
    Try /joinchannel glff
    ...and I apologize in advance if you do have one available on your server.
    There are probably a lot more on your server as well people use.

     

    That's exactly the problem with this game - the game is very clique-ish. If you don't know about or want to use the global channels, there's zero talking in the game. No one ever talks outside of them, except maybe in the Bree area.

    Some consider that a feature, not a problem, but I think it really ruins the game, myself. Least friendly MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of trashy free ones. I've played a year now, I've never had a single conversation with a person, have zero people on my friends list.

    (And yes, I actually try talking to people when they are nearby. Evidently if you aren't in their kin or on a global channel, they want nothing to do with you).



    In my experience, even being in a Kin doesn't necessarily mean anything, as many Kins I've joined have been very clique-ish as well. There's that core group that does everything together (usually comprised of the leader, officers and their closest friends), and then everyone else is just sorta... there.

    If there's a Kin in that game whose members are welcoming and eager to involve new members in activities, for the long term - not just for the first week or so before the novelty wears off and people go back to their normal routines - I'd love to join it. In my experience in LoTRO, though, that's been very difficult to find a group like that.



    A friend of mine has tried LoTRO several times... joined kins and left a few weeks later 'cause no one talked... those who did talk would tend to ignore him or anyone else who wasn't in their clique. He tried forming a Kin during one period and worked really hard at making it a fun group where everyone was involved, everyone got help, we'd schedule events to help members finish up quests, books, etc... Didn't make a difference. People didn't participate, barely talked and didn't bother grouping (because you seldom have to in LoTRO). The only time people spoke up is when they needed help... when it came to them being asked to help someone else out, unless there was something in it for them, they weren't interested.



    They would eventually leave without a word. Finally he deemed LoTRO "The Anti-Social MMO" and gave up on it completely. I can't say I blame him... I've all but given up on LoTRO largely for the extremely clique-ish and anti-social behavior I've experienced in it.



    So yeah... it's easy to say "just join a Kin", but when the kins you join are as anti-social as the general chat channels... kinda hard to remain optimistic.



     

    I am in a great kinship that has a website with a java-based raid and epic quest organizer....

     

    Still - I have been doing 90% of my epic quests with PUG's. Still up to today, I can find a PUG to each and every FS quests whenever I wish to do them. The longest time I waited for a group was over a year ago in Forochel for one of the last epic quests in book 13 or 14 (?) in V1.. it was about an hour.

    Normally, it takes 2-15 minutes to find a group. For any quests.

    If anyone complains about having a hard time to find groups, it inevitably raises the issue: is he/she trying properly? Does he/she know HOW to do that?

    If anyone says they had zero conversation with anyone else in the game - I am sorry, noone in the nine hells could convince me that it is not pure bullshit. OR - that is how this person really wanted things to be.

    DB

     

    In short: "That wasn't my experience, so you're wrong". Is that the gist of what you're saying?



    Not quite so cut-and-dry, I'm afraid.



    I know what I experienced and I know the frustration we (a friend, his girlfriend and myself) experienced in trying to get Kin members involved with helping each other out, etc. It was an uphill fight the entire time. Everyone wanted to just do their own thing and only spoke up when they needed something.



    PUGs weren't any better. I don't know what it's like now, it could have changed. But I know that when I was playing actively, as was my good friend, we *did* try... We used the in-game group functions, we actively sought out people to try and help out... and we'd help out others looking for people. It was the same thing every time. They'd join up only if they needed the same quest(s) we were on, and were gone as soon as they got what they needed; they stuck around only as long as there was something in it for them. There was barely any talking and hardly anyone ever remained in contact afterwards.



    I come from FFXI, a game where communication and community are very important to get *a lot* done...  Aside from that, my friend, his girlfriend and I have all also played Lineage 2 for a few yearst, another game where helping other players out and not being "me me me" is quite important as well. So believe me, I know how to go about talking to people and searching for members for groups. None of us are anti-social or lazy about trying to get involved with the community in a given game. We tried to get involved, tried to build and participate in Kinships... We did everything we could, using every in-game function we could. Most people - in our experience - were too wrapped up in their own progress to be bothered.



    I don't know what it's like now... maybe it's improved a lot. But at the time, the anti-social, self-centered and clique-ish behavior of many in that game is what drove all three of us away, time and again. It wasn't the game itself... we loved the game, and still do.

     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by WSIMike


     
    In short: "That wasn't my experience, so you're wrong". Is that the gist of what you're saying?
    No. I am talking about my own experiences, and I am rejecting any "100% the time" comments (like zero conversations in a whole year" as apparent bullshit OR take them as hiding the real intentions.



    Not quite so cut-and-dry, I'm afraid.  Agreed, see above.



    I know what I experienced and I know the frustration we (a friend, his girlfriend and myself) experienced in trying to get Kin members involved with helping each other out, etc. It was an uphill fight the entire time. Everyone wanted to just do their own thing and only spoke up when they needed something.

     
    Are you saying it was 100% of your experience? Since if not, it still sounds like that.


    PUGs weren't any better. I don't know what it's like now, it could have changed. But I know that when I was playing actively, as was my good friend, we *did* try... We used the in-game group functions, we actively sought out people to try and help out... and we'd help out others looking for people. It was the same thing every time. They'd join up only if they needed the same quest(s) we were on, and were gone as soon as they got what they needed; they stuck around only as long as there was something in it for them. There was barely any talking and hardly anyone ever remained in contact afterwards.
    TBH I don't know either what it's like now, cause all my experiences with PUG's were mostly in 2008, before Moria. Almost never had an issue, apart from the 1-2 FS epic quests in Forochel. Breezed through all 15 volumes of the book within maybe 2 months.



    I come from FFXI, a game where communication and community are very important to get *a lot* done...  Aside from that, my friend, his girlfriend and I have all also played Lineage 2 for a few yearst, another game where helping other players out and not being "me me me" is quite important as well. So believe me, I know how to go about talking to people and searching for members for groups. None of us are anti-social or lazy about trying to get involved with the community in a given game. We tried to get involved, tried to build and participate in Kinships... We did everything we could, using every in-game function we could. Most people - in our experience - were too wrapped up in their own progress to be bothered.
    I never made the implication that you or your friends would lack social skills. Heck, I am not even saying I have any special ones, or even average. I merely described my own experiences, and from my experiences the implication, that someone who has *constant* issues with communication in the same game, is not doing something as good as possible in that sense.



    I don't know what it's like now... maybe it's improved a lot. But at the time, the anti-social, self-centered and clique-ish behavior of many in that game is what drove all three of us away, time and again. It wasn't the game itself... we loved the game, and still do.
    To be honest, I do not know either, as most of my grouping was around 8-14 months ago.  But even last time I played (about 2 months ago), I had PUGs doing many quests together in a certain area. To me, it looked like nothing has changed much, or at all. Again - my personal experience, different server, etc.
     



     

    All in all, I will say the same again: my experiences are almost the opposite of yours, but that will not make me say that either me or you are right. What I'm rather saying is that it is definitely possible to socialize, and play with strangers in Lotro (in Snowbourn EU, at least), and with my experiences it is simply impossible to believe statements like "I had zero conversation in this game for a year", since that thing happened so easily and so naturally to myself, that the only 2 options I could imagine from someone stating this is either bullshitting, or (intentionally or not) trying to socialize in an uncommon way.

    If you read carefully, there are tons of implications in my posts stating that all this is based on my experiences. Even in my post that you replied to, I have written: "noone in the nine hells will convince me, that someone stating the "zero" comment is not lying or doing something in a totally wrong way.

    Sensing the subjectivity already?

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

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