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This is why independent companies should not make MMO's
Genleo
Member Posts: 100
Starvault does not have the manpower to produce a full fantasy world MMO within the time period slated. They most likely will not have this game out by the end of the year, and if it is you can expect another darkfail or AOC.
Why would anyone trust a company with no reputation?? why give them 75 dollars or more... They can't even get their page updated
this company has never made a game before...so chances are this will be their first mistake. Maybe in the future they will produce better games, but for now you are just paying so they can get money and make a real game.
Comments
LOL you can hope...
I personally knew some guys who did this with another game in the past, they hyped it buzzed it sold it, cashed in, pulled the plug, waited 2 months changed the name rehyped it, buzzed it, cashed in again on the same game again, pulled the plug again, waited 6 months and did it again. It was kinda funny because if you hung around with these guys in the dev chat two or there of them would be totally honest about how it was all a scam and how much money they were making off stupid Americans.
Nobody ever learns, its like PT Barnum says, there is a sucker born every minute.
yeah definetly, and these fanboys will defend the game until it comes out as a scam.
98% of the features they said will be in the game will never happen.
I expect the company to pull the plug by the end of the year.
Obvioulsy if it does launch this year with more than 2% of it's advertised features you'll be here eating humble pie right?
Nah, you'll probably be off trolling another game by then.
Oh, you mean Tiamat, Egomancer, JulieBlue, and that lot of losers from the Mourning debacle?
Remember when you swore they were "imposters" when they were ranting on the forums here and getting their game kicked to the curb because of their bullshit?
You were actually a defender of those slimeballs. For shame.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/361726#361726
i was looking forward to this game actually. Im just pissed off that these european companies say they will have all these features in teh game and it will be great and out, and its all broken promises.
I have heard on the official forums there are ZERO mobs in the game, You pretty much just run around doing nothing, and you can't even attack stuff because there is no attack animations. This game is in alpha stage not beta.
It wont be out at the end of the year for sure or probably ever, and im sick of these lies from stupid independent companies.
*kicks the Sea Creature of Early Conclusions back in the Ocean of Ignorance*
- If it weren't for indy's there wouldn't be EVE.
- Not meeting targets isn't reserved for indy devs; plenty of big releases have been postponed as well.
- Don't judge a book by it's cover. We know virtually nothing yet on how this beta will pan out in the coming months.
- If you read up on MO mechanics and gameplay features there is a whole lot of bright and new ideas which kick established developer butt with sheer brilliance.
- If it weren't for indy devs who don't aim for WOW like sub numbers, every game would be bland and dumbed down to appeal to as big of a crowd as possible.
And once again: I don't give a damn if it is not done at this time or when it will be released. As long as it gets there!
My brand new bloggity blog.
You might be right and the game is not what was promised to be.
However, how does that tie with the title of this thread? Where is the argument regarding independent companies and their inability to make MMOs?
Well basically in the last year we had
Funcom fail
Aventurine SA fail
and soon to be Starvault fail
It's three days into beta . . .
It's an indie company, this isn't a "come trial our game" beta, it's a real beta with bugs, very limited features etc.
Honestly whether they will succeed or not, who knows right now, the odds are probably against it. But one thing is sure, whining about it 3 days in just makes you look like a tool.
They've set the bar high with a bunch of promises, and I'll slag them off with the best of them if they don't produce, but really after three days?
you heard wrong.
The only thing we know about this game is the avatar's have huge shlong's. And that isn't saying much.
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For what people say looks more like alpha than beta.
This thread pretty much sums it all up, the community doesnt know what a Beta is anymore or an alpha for that matter, that is really companies faults for labeling their free hype previews with the name beta so they can excuse themselves of bugs when in reality beta over the past 4 years has been used as a soft release.
SV is a small company and there is no guarantee they will make it, they do however have a very good engine, their beta is gonna be exactly that a beta, most people (people who bought the game) bought it in the hopes of playing the soft release of MO and blindly hyped up by the game (nothing wrong with that just sometimes people forget to read the documentation properly) are now a bit disapointed that they are actually testing and not playing the game, if you read what they have released about the Block A beta you can see that their focus is for Crowd testing, synching and other low level stuff and that is achieved by limiting the content so people are funnelled to the areas that need testing.
Bottom line, sorry guys this isnt a soft release this is gonna be actual stress testing and polishing of features it is going to be limited im guessing at least until block C/E of beta are in, again there is nothing wrong with this just people dont know what a beta is anymore.
I am going to stray away from the topic slightly and say the most obvious thing that people usually forget.
Beta = Testing
You are called a Beta Tester for a reason, test stuff, report bugs and errors. THE END
You have to realise that there has been years since an MMORPG was released that catered to free world FFA PvP players and those players are desperate to get a game like that instead of the spoon-feeding, themepark, WoW-clone nonsense.
I personally believe this to be the last hope we get for a FFA PvP MMORPG because of Darkfalls failure. So that is why I paid that money for a game that does not exist yet and which state I know very little about. But I have faith that the game will turn out to be, if not great, atleast a playable FFA PvP game.
That being said I don't agree with the way Starvault is handling this. Charging that much money for a game that is in pre-alpha is not a way to attract future customers so either they must be desperate for money or really greedy. However, seeing as they use the UT 3 engine, which cost upwards of $500.000, I doubt it is greed.
So, if you are into FFA PvP MMORPGs, have faith.
My gaming blog
Well, the people that did Everquest hadn't done a MMO before, but they made it well. MO is a spawn based on all failures the last years and based on what made UO and Everquest soo fun to play.
I see it as an advantage beeing independent. Othervise we will just get WoW, WAR, AoC alike games.
Exactly ... people need to read what Star Vault themself have said before the beta ...
"
Beta testing and gameplay
The Beta is starting July 20 with the features from Combat Beta active, as well as a few new ones. The very first steps have to do with architecture, back-end and network-performance. To begin with, we are aiming to test:
MO Updater (auto-patching system)
Account System, Login, Logout
Character Creation (The “human family” only, like Tindremenes, Khurites etc, male and female)
General Network and Server stability and speed
Crowd congestion tests
Seamless World-streaming
Updated Prediction System
Sound
Client System Performance
This is not very fun from a gameplay-perspective, although crucial from a technical standpoint. To make you run around in the world and have some feeling of purpose in this crude beginning, we are also testing:
Attribute balancing, basic Skill gain (a few example skills)
Further real time PvP, Melee and Archery Combat testing and balancing
"Vendor-crafting" (you bring resources to a vendor, who then crafts stuff for you according to your instructions, like in Combat Beta). The Skills and GUI (Graphical User Interface) for the "real" crafting is still in development
Very basic resource-gathering (refining, prospecting etc will be in together with crafting later on, meaning at the moment you will get magically pre-refined resources when mining, etc)
Fundamental AI-behavior, a few creatures
World traversing, Swimming and Combat Swimming
Around 32km^2 of the Myrland continent
Basic banking (global at first, local if we manage to get it in before this weekend)
Local chat (no languages)
The Flagging System (complete with temporary insta-guards in guard zones)
That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. These first important steps will be the foundation of the game, and updates will come quickly and at a regular basis once we are confident most of the above is working in the new massive environment.
Please also remember that both your possessions and your Characters can be wiped from the server at any moment, and that this may happen several times during the Beta.
You're in for a rough ride, but we are excited for those of you who want to embark on this journey with us!
/the MO Dev Team
"
well the 'why would we trust company with no reputation' argument is kinda flawed. loads of times weve been disappointed by our favorite devs... so the whole 'we never heard of them, they suck' is really unneccesary. we might get a good game and then again we might not.
People like the OP have no clue what they are talking about.
With Aventurine, and especially their clown Tasos, you knew upfront it would be a scam. You could smell it 1000 miles away it would be.
Same with Dark&Light. And the other scams.
--------------
The difference here is that this company is able to license one of the best and most licensed game engines of the world.
That alone means they had the funding to back it up. As license fees are paid up front. No delays and excuses. Especially when it comes to EPIC.
And EPIC is too proud on it's carefully build up reputation to let their name being slandered by some scam artists. Meaning StarVault has been able to convince EPIC to be a solid company.
Next to that, there are movies/Swedish TV program episodes all over the internet about real Dev interviews and tours at StarVaults headquarters, their local city government backing them up... and they also seem to have quite some enthousiastic fans supporting them through thick and thin in their home town in Sweden.
Next to that it seems that the Devs have always been totally honest and upfront with their fans. No lies, no deceit, no vague crap and bullshit ala Tasos. Not to mention all the vague crap and license scams and thefts that were going on with Dark&Light back then.
In all honesty. I see StarVault more like how CCP started out years ago with EVE Online.
And sure it's a risk giving them money and having a chance they get into financial trouble and the game will end up never see the light of day.
Well my friends, I paid 50 bucks for Matrix Online. I paid 50 bucks for Vanguard. I paid 50 bucks for Tabula Rasa. I paid 50 bucks for Age of Conan. I paid 2 times 90 bucks for WAR!!! (CE editions for both me and my gf).
Need to say more about how much money I flushed through the toilet the last years on MMO's of so called respected Dev companies in the industry??
Rest my case. (And oh. No I didn't buy MO and won't be buying it at all, as I don't like FFA PVP in MMO setting attracting all the Epeen kiddies of the internetz. Just wanted to jump in and have my say on it)
You know i find it really sad and a sad reflection on society
that the op or other know it all's feel they have the definative
answer to everything,how they come to the conclusion
that indies's can not produce great mo's is beyond
belief.
Runescape,one of the biggest independant Mo's ever
started as an indie
Eve i played Eve of CD!blue release candidate,even when
online we knew every sunday was crash day,it took CCP
a while to get were they are now.
Project Entropia prob first ever f2p real world economy
system,and once again Indie!
TCOS,yep indie developer again,all above doing well
Ryzom had it's ups and downs but stiill 5 years on
indie companies still keep this one ticking.
People do not seem to realise now what an indie company
is,if it's not bloody massive they seem to think the dev
is codeing away in a back bedroom,while the other member of the team
doubles as a board moderator!
The Mo i'm currently testing closed/open is the best
i've been in,from LOTRO,AOC,WAR,and way too many more
so called proper developers to mention,this developer
has it's own proprietry engine,there own developed game tools
but some pratts on boards still say it's a indie company
even though they have a team of 24/7 mods,the best player feedback
i've ever seen,ingame and on the forums.
So if this constitutes a indie company bravo,rather have this than a
mega global company,releaseing the same old crap over and over.
And to those who show a modicum of intellect rergarding this topic
thank you for restoreing my faith in modern society.
Why not go so far as to say independant companies should not do anything. They shouldn't exist anymore. They are smaller than mega corporations so why not just let them run everything in the world?
Seriously it's fine if you want to be an idiot, but do you really need to make threads to showcase it?
Just wanted to point out to you, if you haven't heard yet, the TCoS devs are bankrupt and the game is set to be made into a Korean F2P game by Acclaim.
The other games you listed I agree with, but TCoS and the morons who made it don't deserve to be in that list.
People like the OP have no clue what they are talking about.
With Aventurine, and especially their clown Tasos, you knew upfront it would be a scam. You could smell it 1000 miles away it would be.
Same with Dark&Light. And the other scams.
I agree with you.
Dark and Light, Mourning, Thrones of Chaos, etc., etc. all waved red flags in front of me from the moment I first heard about them.
Although I may throw in a jab or two here and there ( like the Talos/Tasos name similarity ), I have not gotten the same "here comes the shit" vibe I got from those others.
For the moment at least, I'm willing to believe that Starvault is really just an indy dev team trying to make good and I support them on that. Will I support them with $75? Nope. Been burned too many times. But if they manage to get it out the door with the majority of their features kept and a smooth running game, I'll buy the game and pay a months sub even though I don't personally like FFA anymore.
It`s all a matter of perspective I supose
subjectively , op may be right...props to him , i`m glad he sticks with succesfull mmorpg`s
but from where i stand the worst game ever made is WoW . period . Thus I`m sooo excited whenever i see someone attempting something different. I believe strongly in aiming at niche markets as oposed to attempting to please everyone , so yeah probably part of my august paycheck will go to MO development.
Why? Because they seem to be aiming there product at me . I`m selfish like that , I like it , and I`m willing to throw in a week`s worth of beer&cigars at it . Evn if MO will only be 100% playable next year this time , it`s still ok , as for the time beeing it`s amongst the few promising mmorpg`s out there, and i sure am looking forward to having another mmorpg out there beside EVE
But to the indie companies argument...if blizzard would pull something like this , i would most certanly not hand them any money , and i would probably wait for at least a year after the "hipotethical" game release (if blizzard would ever make a mmo aimed at me) before spending money on it . Why? Blizzard `s credibility is at it`s lowest from where i`m standing...
So props to indie developers for attempting to do something different...rpops to blizzard/ea/whatever for keeping the sheeps pleased and hearded....
I am in very much in support for smaller companies producing MMOs and other games. However, it will be increasingly more difficult for them to match production values of the bigger titles. The lower production values show usually in polish, art, animation, voice, music, content and many other things.
The problem with smaller projects is also that they tend to reach for the stars when they should do smaller and more tailored products for specific audiences, aka specializing. They should try to avoid competition with the titles like World of Warcraft because they are just going to dissapoint players.
After SW: TOR comes out, with fully voiced, it will be even harder for smaller studios match the player expectations.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."