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Soloing is ruining MMOs today,

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  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578
    Originally posted by rr2real


    if you wanna play with others go get a job
    i use mmos to get away from people

     

    As much as I would like to be objective to people's desire to play solo or group...  How does that work?

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150
    Originally posted by Raizeen


    k that must be why wow and aion failed so badly shure

     

    Using a game as an example that is not released yet in the states is ignorant and gives you no ground to stand on. Its remarkable how easily fools forget. AoC pre-launch was the WoW killer blah blah blah look how that turned out.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • rr2realrr2real Member Posts: 448
    Originally posted by tipigi


    If you play to get away from people, then why even bother with an MMO in the first place?  Doesn't the MM in MMO stand for Massively Multiplayer?  Why not just play an offline single player game if you want to be by yourself?

     

    because sometimes i like to get together to do something like pvp but to level i'd rather just sit by myself and relax

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

    I don't care how other people play. As long as there are other players to group up with, why should I care if someone doesn't want to group with me? And why should I care if they have better gear than me?

    On the one hand I agree that solo gameplay has hurt the overall MMO communities to some degree. But then again, so have gear gaps and imbalanced class-based PvP. There are many negative things going on in todays MMOs. However, there are plenty of players who probably enjoy those sorts of things. I think if you can find some good things in the MMOs you play, you should hold on those things and focus on them rather than the negatives. Otherwise you are just wasting your breath. And your money.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011
    Originally posted by Raora


    I will only play an mmo if I can solo 100%. I despise grouping



     

    I will only drive a car if I can walk. I despise driving.

    I know, you are entitled to play however you like. Your post just seems silly to me.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • rr2realrr2real Member Posts: 448
    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Raora


    I will only play an mmo if I can solo 100%. I despise grouping



     

    I will only drive a car if I can walk. I despise driving.

    I know, you are entitled to play however you like. Your post just seems silly to me.

     

    groups need to quit QQing and group together and do the solo quests

  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578
    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Raora


    I will only play an mmo if I can solo 100%. I despise grouping



     

    I will only drive a car if I can walk. I despise driving.

    I know, you are entitled to play however you like. Your post just seems silly to me.

     

    Actually I find alot of these, "I despise grouping" statement often too exaggerated. 

    I don't know, maybe a grey area player like me will never understand the extreme opinions of either side.

    By the way, your avatar caught me off guard and I got creeped out.  >.>

  • RamenThief7RamenThief7 Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by linren

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Raora


    I will only play an mmo if I can solo 100%. I despise grouping



     

    I will only drive a car if I can walk. I despise driving.

    I know, you are entitled to play however you like. Your post just seems silly to me.

     

    Actually I find alot of these, "I despise grouping" statement often too exaggerated. 

    I don't know, maybe a grey area player like me will never understand the extreme opinions of either side.

    By the way, your avatar caught me off guard and I got creeped out.  >.>

    In the end, there really is never a true 100% group gamer, and only the zealot soloists will remain 100% solo. I can admit, I have had times where I had no choice but to solo because I couldn't find anyone for a group (although I spent my time looking for people as well as grinding back in Silkroad Online, a game I suggest you do not play because of untrustworthy GMs and bot infestation problems).

  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578
    Originally posted by RamenThief7

    Originally posted by linren

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Raora


    I will only play an mmo if I can solo 100%. I despise grouping



     

    I will only drive a car if I can walk. I despise driving.

    I know, you are entitled to play however you like. Your post just seems silly to me.

     

    Actually I find alot of these, "I despise grouping" statement often too exaggerated. 

    I don't know, maybe a grey area player like me will never understand the extreme opinions of either side.

    By the way, your avatar caught me off guard and I got creeped out.  >.>

    In the end, there really is never a true 100% group gamer, and only the zealot soloists will remain 100% solo. I can admit, I have had times where I had no choice but to solo because I couldn't find anyone for a group (although I spent my time looking for people as well as grinding back in Silkroad Online, a game I suggest you do not play because of untrustworthy GMs and bot infestation problems).

    No worries, already tried Silkroad and witnessed it first hand about the bots and GM.

    I suppose the more correct way to say this would be, "Too late".

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Trimmed to avoid overwhelming the thread.


    Originally posted by Cephus404
    I'd say that demonstrates a distinct lack of credible evidence that grouping-only fans can keep a game alive since nobody seems willing to make one.  I don't think that you can make a credible case for the group being very large, certainly not equal and nowhere near massive.  There is a very small group of people who pop up in every thread (or start the majority of them) and they get shouted down by a huge throng (as huge as throngs get around here anyhow) every time they try it.
    Come off it Cephus. This thread is staring you in the face. You cannot tell me that there is anything near this indisputable imbalance in pro-groupers vs. anti-groupers present in this thread. Let alone the multiple(at least 5, here, Massively(that led to 3 more)) sites I visited within the last week. I suppose it was the same person with 100+ different accounts to all these sites just posing that they were pro-group? Dont piss on my leg Cephus. How about go back through all the pages of this thread alone, and count each person by reading thier response. I have. I know who is on what side and just how anti of the other side they are. Pro-group vs. Anti-group. You are a flat out lier if you see no more than a handful.
    You seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere?  Even here, you've got a very tiny percentage of people who are in every single thread and a wide variety of people who disagree with them.  Maybe you need to be looking at the dozens of threads started over the past couple of weeks, almost exclusively  by 2-3 people, which have ended up with non-groupers dog-piling on the groupers.
    But if you want to come up with a list of names of people who are pro-grouping and those who are pro-soloing, go for it.  Make sure you don't include people on the pro-grouping list who want to solo.
    I can count the number of people who always pop up on the pro-grouping side on one hand.  It's a tiny number of people who want to group to the exclusion of all else.
    Nonsense. You've not bothered to read any posts from me or many others. Exclusion is false and you know it. Ive read hundreds of pro-group sentiment across the few sites ive visited lately. You think this site has had a rise in group vs. solo debate lately just by chance? The planets aligned right? No. Its missing from games and its absence is cause of soloing.
    There are 100's of thousands of gamers out there, not playing the supposed holy grail of MMO's, seeking an alternative with pro-group focus. If the game created is good, the holy grail of MMO's will have an exodus of 100's of thousands from it too, I believe. They are just hoping someone gets it right before packing their bags, mark my words. This debate was spurred by so many across the spectrum of gaming sites. Why? Simple, Its important to clear some of this up and find the common ground. Id like to see the next game that takes this seriously to make the game with a foundation rooted in one or the other properly and im far from being in a tiny group.
     Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game.  Let us all know when you do.  Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere.  Until you're willing to do that and actually manage it, you're just whistling Dixie.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • protorocprotoroc Member Posts: 1,042
    Originally posted by Cephus404

     Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game.  Let us all know when you do.  Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere.  Until you're willing to do that and actually manage it, you're just whistling Dixie.

     

    We wouldn't let you know. Your kind would migrate to the game since the grouping people are having a blast and demand it be changed to your solo preference, most likely destroying the aspect that made the game fun in the first place. Locusts, they come devour all and then exodus to plague another game.

    (If thats not your quote sorry, the color coding doesn't say whos who)

  • storm-dragonstorm-dragon Member Posts: 157




    I have more fun in groups I always have....to me there is nothing more fun than doing a challenging Dungeon with a group of friends... honestly since MMO's have become more solo friendly that hasn't changed for me. My friends are still there, the challenging dungeons are still there; how someone else plays just doesn’t effect me, simply because I refuse to let it.

    This sword here at my side dont act the way it should
    Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave
    Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave
    And it howls! it howls like hell!

  • mortharxmortharx Member Posts: 293

    Ya they tried to make a MMO where you couldn't solo much. It was called EverQuest 2 and still is.. What remains of it.

    What a great game.. so many restrictions.

    Just FYI people don't like to be meddled with. They like freedom.

    R.I.P Chikaca Whachuchuimage
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  • VengerVenger Member UncommonPosts: 1,309

    What is ruining mmo?  To name a few off the top of my head.

    Intolerance towards people that don't play like you.

    Players inability to look past their own little world.

    Ego that makes people think they deserve more for what ever reasons.

    MMO being designed from end to beginning instead of begining to end.

    MMO are all about the loot with little to no character development.

    MMO are designed like funnels (more options at the beginning then the end).

    Leveling is to fast because of end to beginning and funnel design.

    Developers can't seam to get away from the unholy trinity.  MMO should mimic real world more then single player rpgs.

    Just to name a few.

     

  • RamenThief7RamenThief7 Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by storm-dragon





    I have more fun in groups I always have....to me there is nothing more fun than doing a challenging Dungeon with a group of friends... honestly since MMO's have become more solo friendly that hasn't changed for me. My friends are still there, the challenging dungeons are still there; how someone else plays just doesn’t effect me, simply because I refuse to let it.

     

    I don't know what you're playing, but whatever game it is, stick to it. Otherwise, you will end up like the rest of us group players that are seeking a new excellent group game with few solo elements that suck compared to grouping (I hope that is FF XIV, with maybe a few tweaks to the solo aspect, but nothing that will change it from FF XI). Honestly Storm-Dragon, you should really check out other MMOs these days, and then you will see why us group people are up in arms against soloers that hate grouping inside games.

  • storm-dragonstorm-dragon Member Posts: 157
    Originally posted by RamenThief7

    Originally posted by storm-dragon





    I have more fun in groups I always have....to me there is nothing more fun than doing a challenging Dungeon with a group of friends... honestly since MMO's have become more solo friendly that hasn't changed for me. My friends are still there, the challenging dungeons are still there; how someone else plays just doesn’t effect me, simply because I refuse to let it.

     

    I don't know what you're playing, but whatever game it is, stick to it. Otherwise, you will end up like the rest of us group players that are seeking a new excellent group game with few solo elements that suck compared to grouping (I hope that is FF XIV, with maybe a few tweaks to the solo aspect, but nothing that will change it from FF XI). Honestly Storm-Dragon, you should really check out other MMOs these days, and then you will see why us group people are up in arms against soloers that hate grouping inside games.


    Well...I'm playing WoW we are currently raiding Ulduar and I'm having a lot of fun with that, I am also playing EvE, my Corp is exploring wormholes and are in the middle of a war with a competing mining corp., and I am playing DDO as well; I am also Beta Testing Aion and another MMO that I can't talk about. 

    I play games on my terms not other peoples terms, and I can always find enough like-minded folks where there is always someone to group with.(One reason I love MMO's is because you meet some really awesome players) Also I have been playing MMO's since EQ beta.

    Solo players haven't effected me since then and are pretty unlikely to effect me in the future.

     

    This sword here at my side dont act the way it should
    Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave
    Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave
    And it howls! it howls like hell!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by ViewDoo


    MMO should = built around group play. Why the hell play a multi-player game to play alone? That is like logging on to multiplay a RTS and just playing the computer opponents.
    There are hundreds of great single player RPGs if you must play with yourself. Games with much better immersion, storyline and feel, and many less morons, gold spamming, and beggars.

     

    NOPE.

    MP does not necessary means group play, it can be:

    1) people to compete with.

    2) people to show off gear to

    3) people to pvp with

    4) people to buy & sell with

    5) people to chat with

    You don't need grouping to have an online game. There are a lot more interaction than just grouping.

  • DemonshankDemonshank Member Posts: 91


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    You seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere?  Even here, you've got a very tiny percentage of people who are in every single thread and a wide variety of people who disagree with them.  Maybe you need to be looking at the dozens of threads started over the past couple of weeks, almost exclusively  by 2-3 people, which have ended up with non-groupers dog-piling on the groupers.

    But if you want to come up with a list of names of people who are pro-grouping and those who are pro-soloing, go for it.  Make sure you don't include people on the pro-grouping list who want to solo.

    Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game.  Let us all know when you do.  Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere.


    Yes. I do seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere. When any serious poll is taken, on any subject, it usually takes groups of people with differing backgrounds and poses the question. Then its taken with some limit of -/+ or under/over.


    This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.


    It takes 1 person to start a thread. When its important to discuss and reach out to your fellow gamers, you start a topic. There are a multitude of voices that have weighed in on this debate. Soloing ruining MMOs is not exactly my train of thought, but it starts a debate. The creator steps out and states their opinion w/any facts that may be present, and sparks fly. Then when it calms down a real passionately intelligent(hopefully) debate takes over.


    Dogpiling? I havent seen any supposed dogpile. I think the dialoge has been fairly even sided. If anything, the pro-soloers have packed up and left, realizing this isnt just a pushover sliver of gamers. We have several valid points. Dodging them, or pretending they do not exist is callous. Many of us respect the soloer. We arent trying to strip you guys/gals of any deserved playstyle.

    Every group does have its fringe element. Those fringe 100% group/soloers arent driving this debate. I, like many others, have clearly stated we represent the viewpoint that more than enough gamers are pro-group and we'd really like to see a game focused on this playstlye. Not FORCED, but focused. We're concerned that if the focus is misappropriated evenly or too solo heavy, it devalues grouping. IF the game is good, many gamers will play it and it will be a success.

    Make a list of names? Dont be dopey. You go read the thread. It speaks for itself. You're wrong on this and you think by wasting time that it somehow helps your zealous fringe stance. While you're at it, go read the multiple sites and multiple threads all over the place that discuss this exact issue, and then you count em. Im satisfied knowing I, unlike you, have read all these threads, response, by response, by respone.

    Plus, why am I not being dogpiled, like you imagined happening to others? I, again unlike you, have respect for all gamers and their playstyles. We're all gamers, and trying to diminish one group or another to advance your own soloist agenda is bullishly feeble.

    Yeah, again Cephus, try to discount my validity by labelling it 'whining'. Try to debate with some class eventually. Lets muddy the water to try and get us off point. Like someone already stated, we're not gonna tell you shit. You dont want to play games with anyone. You think their stupid and shallow. Remember? Yeah, you're on record. Developers are working as we speak on projects with multiple frameworks. If the game is good, we will play it!


    I hammered you on points and you post what you think will erode the discussion. Then put words into the mouths of the opposition to fit your commentary. Your second favorite is to blab about nonsense while totally ignoring reality. Step aside, or keep getting run over, cause your frivolous conduct isnt helping your neglectful viewpoint.

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,831
    Originally posted by Demonshank


     

    Originally posted by Cephus404
     
    You seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere?  Even here, you've got a very tiny percentage of people who are in every single thread and a wide variety of people who disagree with them.  Maybe you need to be looking at the dozens of threads started over the past couple of weeks, almost exclusively  by 2-3 people, which have ended up with non-groupers dog-piling on the groupers.
    But if you want to come up with a list of names of people who are pro-grouping and those who are pro-soloing, go for it.  Make sure you don't include people on the pro-grouping list who want to solo.
    Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game.  Let us all know when you do.  Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere.

     

     

    I hammered you on points and you post what you think will erode the discussion. Then put words into the mouths of the opposition to fit your commentary. Your second favorite is to blab about nonsense while totally ignoring reality. Step aside, or keep getting run over, cause your frivolous conduct isnt helping your neglectful viewpoint.



     

     

    Hammered them on what points exactly?  Ignoring what reality?

     

    I actually agree with this:

     

    "Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game. Let us all know when you do. Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere."

     

    Now I'll tell you why...

     

    I think Ultima Online was the greatest MMO ever made thus far.  I think if you took what UO was at the start and made it more of everything it would be the perfect modern game.

     

    However, no game developer with enough funding to make a game worth playing agrees with me.

     

    Thus it isn't made.

     

    So I used myself as an example...

     

    Yet its an example that can be applied to much of what people talk about or want on this forum.

     

    So I'm sorry but its 100% valid point that you did nothing to change.

  • DemonshankDemonshank Member Posts: 91


    Originally posted by Antarious

    Originally posted by Demonshank

     



    Originally posted by Cephus404
     
    You seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere?  Even here, you've got a very tiny percentage of people who are in every single thread and a wide variety of people who disagree with them.  Maybe you need to be looking at the dozens of threads started over the past couple of weeks, almost exclusively  by 2-3 people, which have ended up with non-groupers dog-piling on the groupers.
    But if you want to come up with a list of names of people who are pro-grouping and those who are pro-soloing, go for it.  Make sure you don't include people on the pro-grouping list who want to solo.
    Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game.  Let us all know when you do.  Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere.


     
     
    I hammered you on points and you post what you think will erode the discussion. Then put words into the mouths of the opposition to fit your commentary. Your second favorite is to blab about nonsense while totally ignoring reality. Step aside, or keep getting run over, cause your frivolous conduct isnt helping your neglectful viewpoint.

     
     
    Hammered them on what points exactly?  Ignoring what reality?
     
    I actually agree with this:
     
    "Then find game developers to produce a game for you if you think you're such a huge group that can support a game. Let us all know when you do. Because as I've said before, sitting on an Internet forum whining about it really isn't going to get you anywhere."
     
    Now I'll tell you why...
     
    I think Ultima Online was the greatest MMO ever made thus far.  I think if you took what UO was at the start and made it more of everything it would be the perfect modern game.
     
    However, no game developer with enough funding to make a game worth playing agrees with me.
     
    Thus it isn't made.
     
    So I used myself as an example...
     
    Yet its an example that can be applied to much of what people talk about or want on this forum.
     
    So I'm sorry but its 100% valid point that you did nothing to change.



    Read the evolution of the discussion. Jump in 100 posts later and give a snippet opinion isnt really appreciated. Im glad you have an affinity to what UO did well, but read everything.


    Hey, if you want to roll over and die on what you think would make a great game with alot of your favorite things, so be it I guess. That sounds pretty lame to me. I prefer to stand together with others that share my view and seek someone who will 'take a chance'. If even that fits to explain the potential that a game with group focus would foster.

  • ErstokErstok Member Posts: 523

    Yes!!!  It's a video game developers fault if you stub your toe, piss your pants, and can't wipe your arse.

    image
    When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?

  • MardyMardy Member Posts: 2,213

    This thing called soloing in MMO's is caused by player demand, because people have changed over the years.  I know myself, I don't play the way I used to in 2000.  Back then I loved grouping with strangers, I didn't mind having nothing to do when there was no group to be had.  But then back then 3D MMO's were new and people were willing to put up with a lot of stuff, not to mention we were younger back then.  These days I find myself not wanting to deal with people I don't know, so I mostly group with people I know only, otherwise soloing by myself.

     

    Many games tried to recreate the forced grouping model and have failed. They quickly changed how they did things, even EQ1 has evolved over the years.  Forced grouping is simply not popular these days, that's why MMO companies stay away from it, or at least provide both means to progress.

    EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO

  • GreenieGreenie Member Posts: 553
    Originally posted by Mardy


    This thing called soloing in MMO's is caused by player demand, because people have changed over the years.  I know myself, I don't play the way I used to in 2000.  Back then I loved grouping with strangers, I didn't mind having nothing to do when there was no group to be had.  But then back then 3D MMO's were new and people were willing to put up with a lot of stuff, not to mention we were younger back then.  These days I find myself not wanting to deal with people I don't know, so I mostly group with people I know only, otherwise soloing by myself.
     

    Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.

  • MardyMardy Member Posts: 2,213
    Originally posted by Greenie
    Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.

     

    Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time".  After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know.  And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.

     

    So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time.  I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.

    EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO

  • RamenThief7RamenThief7 Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by Mardy

    Originally posted by Greenie
    Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.

     

    Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time".  After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know.  And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.

     

    So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time.  I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.

    Even though I am a hardcore group player, I can sort of understand the concept of someone simply not wanting to associate with strangers. However, in some games it can lead to problems. I have a story to share to illustrate this point.

    When I used to play Silkroad Online (which I suggest you do not play due to bot infestation problems and untrustworthy GMs), there was once a strange incident that occured. While I was out as a thief (in the game, it was a job that you could partake to rob merchants who were other players), there was a nasty conflict in which a girl seemed to have pissed off a mob of people. I recognized the girl (she had a strange name, I can't remember it, but that's how I remembered her), she often times avoided other people and wouldn't socialize with them. When I showed up, the mob quickly ran because they noticed that not only was I dressed up as a ninja (meaning I was a Chinese thief, European thieves wore cloaks), but I was equipping a powerful weapon showing that I was several levels higher than the whole mob. When I asked the girl what happened, she said that the leader of the mob was dead lying on the ground asking for anyone to res him. She was a cleric around the mob leader's level (and it turned out she was strong enough to res him), but she was shy around other people and usually avoided them. When the mob leader called out to her, she ran away. She just didn't want to socialize with a stranger, but to the mob leader, she was someone who ran off when she could've clearly helped him.

    Silkroad Online was a group-based game that you could technically solo in, but it was difficult to do (and you got exp. bonuses for being inside a group, thus you were encouraged heavily to group) if your character setup was not built for survival by themselves (meaning you needed a cleric subclass when you played as a European and you needed alot of potions if you were a Chinese nuker). She tried her best to avoid socializing in the game and basically solo, but that led to a very unexpected conflict when she decided to run and not help someone out.

    Basically, I am saying that I do not think soloers belong in those kind of games. I do not use this example as extreme proof, this was probably a very rare occasion, but it is an example that soloers really do not belong inside most group-ecentric games.

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