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Role Play and MMORPGs

Do you think it will ever actually work well?

I personally don't.

Now, this isn't a thread that exists just to claim that, it's one meant to start a discussion. I might be in a very small minority on this board when I say I'd love a role-playing game that revolves around the role-play rather than the game. But nearly all of the MMORPGs out there don't do that, and for good reason too. A pay-to-play game that was more RP than actual game probably wouldn't fly so well.

Most MMORPGs today are a game first, a narrative second. The cost a ton to develop, a ton to maintain, and can often decide the fate of the studio releasing them. It wouldn't be a gamble to create an expensive game based around RP, it'd be plain bad business sense.

At this point, I've retreated to text-based games. Found a brilliant one, too. But I'd like other people's opinions. Could they make it equal parts game and RP without endangering profits either way?

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Comments

  • NeosaiNeosai Member Posts: 401

    You are the most sane RP player I have ever seen on this forum.

    The ideal role play might have to be in the realms of imagination currently.  A game cannot really match the flexibility and variety of imagination.  Imagination is free, but MMORPG cost money to make as you stated.

  • Peregrine2Peregrine2 Member Posts: 169

    I think it can work fine, but there's one very important idea that a lot of people miss. Good roleplay in an MMO has to come from YOU, not the game. The game is there to be just that, a game, with all sorts of players. The idea that at some point there will be a MMO primarily focused on roleplay is a dream, though some are more RP-friendly than others. I have found Lord of the Rings Online to be particularly friendly to RP, maybe because of their mature community. No matter the game,  you can make good roleplay where you are as long as you are willing to work at it. The game can provide the backdrop - the world, lore, etc, but your roleplay goes over all that as another layer.

  • TarnicusTarnicus Member UncommonPosts: 17
    Originally posted by Token1337Guy



    At this point, I've retreated to text-based games. Found a brilliant one, too.

    Which game did you retreat to?

  • Bonzodog0Bonzodog0 Member Posts: 1

    A game to look at for Roleplaying is Planeshift. It prides itself on the pure Roleplaying environment it tries to create. Be aware though that the game is still very much an alpha, is in heavy development, liable to crash, and has laggy graphics. Also updates have become a little infrequent, but the game has massive potential. The map is still rather small, with only 3 Cities/towns currently available.

    I have been playing it for 3 months, and love it. There is a new version due out soon(tm), and the upcoming list of features is something to look forward to.

     

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    I honestly don't think you can do actual RP in an MMO, they're not set up for it even if you do find a group of people who don't care about the gear-grind, leveling, etc.  I spent close to 20 years on various text-based games RPing and those are a lot more fun, or at least they were until most of the serious RPers vanished.

    I don't know where you can really do RPing these days.  If it's out there, I haven't seen it, just a pale shadow of what it once was.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697

    It's a nice change of pace to see a RP with a realistic outlook on MMOs. No they will most likely never design an MMO for RPers ever again. The vast majortiy of MMO players don't want to RP, which means the vast amount of money is not attached to RP games. I doubt games will even create RP servers anymore just because of the cost and problems of running them.

     

    RP is best done is small groups where everything can be controlled and imagination can allow things to dynamical change in an instant. There's a reason they still sell pen and paper RP games, they are what works.

  • DagrikDagrik Member Posts: 22

    A sane and logical discussion - as in not a flame or zealous argument - about RPing in games.  I am glad to see one come along everyone once in a while.

     

    I believe previous posts are correct.  RPing can only be done on MMOs in a controlled environment, such as a group or clan.  The moment a company "forces" rp on a server, no one will want to play.  And it would be almost impossible to do correctly.  However, RPing is multi-faceted, and definitely starts with YOU, as was described before.

     

    The first important step is YOU.  Only YOU can set the level of RP that you do in a game, no matter PnP or MMOs.  In MMOs, it could be talking with accent (think dwarves) or playing along with the history/chronicles given about a race by the game makers.  It could even be taken so far as to add conversation to NPCs who are giving quests.  Seen many weird things in the pursuit of RP.  I've also seen instances where one group of RP'ers started a small chain where others started joining in, just for fun.

    The second step is to realize that RP can be seen by a player using a character as it was meant to be in the world.  Running an assassin as such adds to the realm too.  Would an assassin normally take a Templar Knight on head-to-head, sword to sword?  Probably not, more likely with a poisoned arrow when the knight makes camp. 

    As far as finding people such as this in a game, that can be tough.  I've seen games such as EQ2 where guilds arise that state they are heavy rp'ers, or light rp's.  If you are interested in doing stuff like there, guaranteed there are others with the same wishes and desires.  Don't give up hope.  If you wanna play that way, please do so.  Just like with race/class/template choices, if you are paying the $$, play the way you want.

  • Crys_MaidenCrys_Maiden Member Posts: 8

    no idea -,-'

  • NeoWolf73NeoWolf73 Member UncommonPosts: 29

    I've seen Rp work in MMOs and even participated in it, but it requires a lot of work and a group of like minded individuals.. and a lot of folks claim to be RP;ers when what they actually mean is they are simply PVE'ers..

    Server communities can also make it nigh impossible to RP properly due to the fact most non RP'ers just don't get it, and therefore ridicule it and those who do it.

    LOTRO has some great RP communities on a number of servers as an example of an MMO that has a lot of positive proactive RP'ers.

  • Agarwaen12Agarwaen12 Member Posts: 4

    I think it can work well. But only after publisher start to really understand the concept of an evolving world where player interactions have a big impact. Not only on major events but also on minor.

     

  • MinocoMinoco Member Posts: 8

    RP and MMO can work perfectly together. It just needs some ingredients next to PvE and PvP.

    First off, Post length restrictions lessoned.

    The restrictions are often placed because it simply creates memory issues to allow long posts.

    The game Age of Conan ignored this and did offer long posts to be made.

    But Age of Conan wasn't to well for RP, for it didn't offer much flexibility to character personalities.



    Second, the environment.

    Cities with small streets and open houses.

    Not the wide streets and open town squares you see in most MMO's

    But for development and again the loading memory of curtain area's is why you don't see this much.

    As developers have to fill a whole world, not just a city or two.

    So these things often don't get done, and if they do (Happens rarely) It's done through expansions.

    By adding a new area to town.

    Outside of town, small roads, creeks, a breathing world that's free from destruction because the world is about to end.

    The more dense the better for as long as it doesn't become too chaotic.



    Third point which most MMO's DO have.

    A well balanced economics system

    With NPC's  to interact with like bakers, black smiths, and all the likes.

    This is what makes the world feel alive enough to actualy have a character in there that you can casually RP with as a civilian.

    And Forth, which may still be the most important,

    A good Lore in the game itself.

    That gives the world you RP in a History, one you can adept to and allow your character to be fully alive.

    From birth to present.

    There is ofcourse a Sixth point. and many more. Like.

    Casual looking gear.

    Unique appearances (Good Character Creation)

    Plenty of Animations.

    Open Game, not the usual Good/Bad !Clash! most MMO's go for.

    Allowing a higher freedom to what your character may actually be without Pre-Judged.

    Like Age of Conan (I havn't played it in ages but it offers great examples)

    There where 3 factions, but the lore was so tight on all three, that if you wanted to RP as one.

    Your characters mind set was already chosen by the game without able to really make it your own.

    This is the main reason I stepped away from the game as not enough freedom was offered here.

    Yet you also have games like World of Warcraft, where you can almost be any type of personality.

    Only bound to the class you picked.



    Conclution, In my eyes that would make an MMO best for RP, is not just making RP only servers.

    But make the environment suitable for RPers.

    All we need are the post lengths

    And the Cities more RP friendly.

    Without being tied down to much by Lore

    Yet still have enough so we can be free to RP

    our unique original characters in a living breathing digital world.

    We do the rest. and enjoy our RP lives in such a game.

  • haelikothhaelikoth Member Posts: 116

    I agree with the OP that RP and MMORPGs wont ever work well. Heck, thats why I call em MMOs nowadays since there really isnt RP in it. The core of the problem lies with the players. As pointed out, the start of any good RP lies with you, the player. Unfortunately your average gamer isn't an RPer or even thinks that RPing is weird. For a game developer who is out to earn money, they'll target the larger audience of non-RPers of course.

    Of course this doesn't mean there are no MMOs that have RP support. There are some, like in WoW. I can't recall it at the moment, but I also came across some indie MMO-like games where the world is simply a world,  a system, and everything is role-played. I'll post a link when I find it again.

    edit: found it. havent tested it tho. illarion.org/general/us_startpage.php

    image

  • AthcearAthcear Member Posts: 420

    Honestly, if you really want to RP, pick up a couple of DnD books, some dice, and a DM.  The only place where you can truly play a role is in an environment controlled by a person.  No automated system can react to every choice a character can make.  Unless you have a human at the controls, RP will always be limited.

    Important facts:
    1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
    2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
    3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
    4. Community is more important than you think.

  • jingjingjingjing Member Posts: 3

    hah,there are many people here,so i come here to ask wether here has someone played the same game with me?

  • DawnsingerDawnsinger Member Posts: 212

    There's a reason RPing worked in UO. The game was large enough to keep players seperate, but players could still stumble across each other accidentally. Nevermind the fact that the community as a whole was very accepting of roleplayers, and your average player would join in roleplaying if he stumbled across it.

    All that REALLY needs to be done in games is get the 'tards who try and ruin RP events off the servers, and give a world large enough that people don't HAVE to interact with each other, but still can.

    http://www.havenandhearth.com
    The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.

  • astrob0yastrob0y Member Posts: 702

    Give us players a way to buff each other when we like each others RP skills. And give us a tool to negative buff a person that ruins the rp settings.

    And RP works in mmorpg, even in a game like wow :)

    [email protected], [email protected] 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,314
    Originally posted by Dawnsinger


    There's a reason RPing worked in UO. The game was large enough to keep players seperate, but players could still stumble across each other accidentally. Nevermind the fact that the community as a whole was very accepting of roleplayers, and your average player would join in roleplaying if he stumbled across it.

     

    And it had a content team that supported it.

    And the game mechanics allow people to customize/personalize the world around them (build towns, venues, academies, etc) .

    And the tools are there to allow players to write books, create libraries, hold raffles, etc.

    And communication relies on being in proximity of the people you are addressing, with a realistic whisper system. Obstacles also affect sound... closing a door for privacy, sneaking around to the window to listen in...

    And players could create distinct and uniform looks for their guild or group without negatively impacting their stats - a militia could look like a militia, races could have distinct looks. You knew a Pict when you saw one. You knew a Shadowclan orc when you saw one. You knew UDL when you saw them.

    And...

     

    Players can actually be something other than "person who murders things." A baker doesn't have to go hunt mobs to raise his slaughter level in order to bake higher grade bread. A fisherman doesn't have to stop fishing and go kill rats for days just to pull up bigger fish.

    Ultima Online was the MUD's greatest leap from text to graphics, however it just wasn't the path that MMOs seemed destined to follow.

     

     

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • TclonesTclones Member Posts: 4

    I think that Rping can and one day will work well in a MMO. I am not talking about a game that centers around the "Rping gamer" label or about some of the trivial things that are often associated with people who call themselves Rpers , the Op is right that market simply isn't big enough for some company to center their game around that "label" and is simply is not a smart move on the part of the company making the game " take no offense I am a hardcore Rper" so in that sense MMO’s will never have that Rp centered game it just will not happen IMO but that not what Role playing is really about or at least it is not the most important part of it.

     

    Role playing is about interactions, It’s about stories , it’s about the reactions of the individuals who are involved in those stories and how they play out and effect the world and those around them and that IMHO is not only possible but may already be happening in the next generation MMO's that are coming out . These games will have people taking on roles in the game and interacting with that game which will cause them to react in a way that ties into the games universe. So in a sense they will be role playing without them realizing it because it will not be about the enforcement of useless rules and regulations up on them forcing them to play the game a certain way but a simple mechanic of the game that they will not even think twice about and may even enjoy.

    This type of Rping is already happening it started with AOC and will continue in KotOr, DC online and  it will IMO be very successful and I think that it will catch and become popular enough to be carried over to other MMO's that come after these games.

    So in that sense Rping is a very marketable and feasible option for companies to include. It is something that won’t take away from the masses but add another level of enjoyment for anyone who plays them be they rper’s, pvper,s casual or hardcore gamers it will simply not matter because it will not be thought of as gay rping but just a fun aspect of the game itself.

     

  • rozenblade1rozenblade1 Member CommonPosts: 501

    I love to RP in MMOs...I did it in LotRO, did in DDO, doin it in AoC...

    but...MMOs dont cater to RPers, but that doesnt mean they never will...

    I've noticed more and more games allowing player made content or player requested content, even if in small doses...this can really be beneficial for RPers...

    In LotRO, my group would meet up at our Homestead, RP a story about Orcs threatening Bree Land or getting some revenge for a fallen ally, then go and kill abunch of mobs...yea it was RP, and we RP'd the whole thing, but the killing of the mobs was really pointless...it wasnt like we were actually stopping some sort of threat to players or something like that...

    I dunno...I think it's kinda impossible for devs to make an MMO devoted to RP...you really need unlimited freedom to be able to RP properly in an MMO, and devs cant give players unlimited freedom...

    PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
    PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM

    WAITING FOR: Dust 514

  • VagussVaguss Member Posts: 9
    Originally posted by Token1337Guy


    Do you think it will ever actually work well?
    I personally don't.
    Now, this isn't a thread that exists just to claim that, it's one meant to start a discussion. I might be in a very small minority on this board when I say I'd love a role-playing game that revolves around the role-play rather than the game. But nearly all of the MMORPGs out there don't do that, and for good reason too. A pay-to-play game that was more RP than actual game probably wouldn't fly so well.
    Most MMORPGs today are a game first, a narrative second. The cost a ton to develop, a ton to maintain, and can often decide the fate of the studio releasing them. It wouldn't be a gamble to create an expensive game based around RP, it'd be plain bad business sense.
    At this point, I've retreated to text-based games. Found a brilliant one, too. But I'd like other people's opinions. Could they make it equal parts game and RP without endangering profits either way?

     

    RPing is a niche community so I don't think a company that incorporates equal parts game and RP will be too successful. That's not to say that RP is bad at all, RPers are some of the most interesting people to play with in an MMO. It's just that what seems to attract the majority of players is all the bells and whistles we've come to expect from instant gratification.

    I've found the most rewarding RP experiences in games that have next to no RP qualities. It may come down to what you make of it. If the RP content is not rewarding enough and you're unwilling to move on from the game for whatever reason, it could be worth the effort to establish your own RP community or inject your projects into what already exists.

    Sorry if that was hard to follow, i've been writing all day and my brain is a bit mush right now lol

  • Einherjar_LCEinherjar_LC Member UncommonPosts: 1,055
    Originally posted by Peregrine2


    I think it can work fine, but there's one very important idea that a lot of people miss. Good roleplay in an MMO has to come from YOU, not the game. The game is there to be just that, a game, with all sorts of players. The idea that at some point there will be a MMO primarily focused on roleplay is a dream, though some are more RP-friendly than others. I have found Lord of the Rings Online to be particularly friendly to RP, maybe because of their mature community. No matter the game,  you can make good roleplay where you are as long as you are willing to work at it. The game can provide the backdrop - the world, lore, etc, but your roleplay goes over all that as another layer.

     

    This post hits the nail on the head.

     

    All the mmo can do is provide the scenario for you to RP within.  The RP comes from you.  It's your story and you make of it what you will with the tools you have been given.

    Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  • JhughesyJhughesy Member Posts: 419

    We already have MMORPG designed for roleplay. They are called sandboxes.

  • ozmonoozmono Member UncommonPosts: 1,211
    Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

    Originally posted by Peregrine2


    I think it can work fine, but there's one very important idea that a lot of people miss. Good roleplay in an MMO has to come from YOU, not the game. The game is there to be just that, a game, with all sorts of players. The idea that at some point there will be a MMO primarily focused on roleplay is a dream, though some are more RP-friendly than others. I have found Lord of the Rings Online to be particularly friendly to RP, maybe because of their mature community. No matter the game,  you can make good roleplay where you are as long as you are willing to work at it. The game can provide the backdrop - the world, lore, etc, but your roleplay goes over all that as another layer.

     

    This post hits the nail on the head.

     

    All the mmo can do is provide the scenario for you to RP within.  The RP comes from you.  It's your story and you make of it what you will with the tools you have been given.

     

    It does hit the nail on the head but I still prefer the dream and if enough other people do too than it'll come to fruition.

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,314
    Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

    Originally posted by Peregrine2


    I think it can work fine, but there's one very important idea that a lot of people miss. Good roleplay in an MMO has to come from YOU, not the game. The game is there to be just that, a game, with all sorts of players. The idea that at some point there will be a MMO primarily focused on roleplay is a dream, though some are more RP-friendly than others. I have found Lord of the Rings Online to be particularly friendly to RP, maybe because of their mature community. No matter the game,  you can make good roleplay where you are as long as you are willing to work at it. The game can provide the backdrop - the world, lore, etc, but your roleplay goes over all that as another layer.

     

    This post hits the nail on the head.

     

    All the mmo can do is provide the scenario for you to RP within.  The RP comes from you.  It's your story and you make of it what you will with the tools you have been given.

     

    A lot of win going on up in here.

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • GildenloreGildenlore Member Posts: 23

    In reply to the OP...YES!! IT WILL WORK...WELL!!

    First and Foremost...Role-Playing is a Skill. The Average MMORPG Player has very poor RP Skills and, for the most part, hasn't even witnessed In-Depth Role-Playing enough to grasp the art or appreciate its entertainment value. Unfortunately, until the new generation of players get that exposure and finally make the cross-over from "I've gots Mad Skillz!!" to the mature realization of "I can Spam Hot-Keys, but My Imagination is an Epic Fail...", the current mode of "Screw the Story...What's the objective?...Kill Everything in Sight...Gotta get to Max Level before Lunch!! LOL!! PWN'D U, NOOB!!" Combat-Oriented MMORPGs will continue to flood the market.

     

    As far as whether a Dedicated-RP MMORPG will work well...

     

    Let's be realistic...it's a Maturity Issue that's hindering the evolution of the genre due to production costs and the unwillingness of game developers to take a gamble on producing a "fail at launch" product.

    Cut & Dry.

     

    The Up-Side is that MMORPGs are getting easier to produce every day. New Technologies, Schooling, Archives and Game Creating Utilities are allowing developers to create worlds in a fraction of the time it took 10 years ago. This is a great thing! It's taking away some of the sting of creating a game that fails at launch. If you already have a standard MMO created, it's just a matter of changing the game mechanics to allow for more RP functionality. Vice-Versa...if you create a D-RP MMO and it fails at launch...you only need to change the game mechanics to the current mode and re-release it into the market, whether P2P or F2P/Item Mall. IMHO, I can't see where it would be much more difficult to produce a D-RP than a current mode MMO, other than the design of the RP System itself, which is more of a creativity issue. The gamble, if any, is only the cost of developing the Functional RP System Game Mechanics, but the benefits of being the pioneering developer of that system far out-weigh the cost of the gamble. Someone will do it. Guaranteed.

     

    With that in mind...I'm predicting that within 3-5 years (hoping for sooner), at least one bold game developer will say, "Let's put the RP back in MMORPG!" and take a chance on creating a Dedicated-RP MMO. It may not be perfect, but any progress towards full functionality, is still progress...and if that developer strikes gold...There'll be so many D-RP MMOs to follow that you won't be able to decide which one to play!!

     

    I think you're under-estimating the Lure of a Dedicated Role-Playing MMO.

    The Community is Here and Growing...The Demand is Coming on Strong!!

    The Stagnanticity of the Current Mode is Working in OUR Favor!!

     

    On another note, I'm not too happy with the Worlds & Lore of the current MMOs. Just isn't my Style of Fantasy. EQ2 was close, but Sony kinda "Candied" it up for the kids. And EVE is a great game, but having a static character and never getting to go planet-side suxazz! Give me a REAL Sci-Fi!!

     

    Edit:  Removed some random characters...

    "Walk soft on the Paths of Society...For Subtlety is the Blessing of Sanctuary."

    - anonymous

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