There's a certain irony here, that the MMO sphere wouldn't exist without the hardcore gamer. That WoW wouldn't be here today with out the dedication of thousands of hardcore gamers to games such as Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft. That EQ wouldn't have held it's head above water. That UO's heavy death penalty would have stopped many from conintueing.
So now that the old boys have out lived their usefulness their so easily tossed aside. A new age has come, everyone has a computer, everyone has an opinion.
In the old day everyone got on the PC with internet to communicate to other people. Now like RL, the virtual world has become so full and over crowded that we barely notice each other. The company of others has become an annoyance rather than a pleasure.
It's kind of sad really, though honestly I see it somewhere in the middle. However, I don't approve personally of selling a singleplayer (with slight co-op) game for a subscription fee. Which we're all talking about SW:TOR, whether or not you want to solo play is irrelevant. What if I just plain want to spend time with other players? Why does the massive multiplayer get left out?
What if I just want to sit there interacting with people? What ever happen to that simple pleasure? So far I have not seen a single screenshot or anything else showing any forms of community in SW:TOR. A simple city for instance of players.
What I can't for the life of me understand is why someone would want to pay monthly to play an MMORPG by themselves? The entire point is the MMO part, the massive, MULTI-PLAYER, online part. If you want to play solo, just stick with the RPG and save yourselves some money.
You are absolutely clueless and hopless if you can't see the difference between a single player game and soloing in an MMO. That's fine, as long as developers can learn the difference, then that's all that matters.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I mean where has all this shit come from? other then left field...i mean wtf.
At a complete guess, TOR.
Bioware have recently stated that they're not aiming the game towards hardcore players, but catering to a far more casual/solo crowd. This resulted in an outcry from the hardcore minorities like the raiding "elite" and an ensuing backlash from the soloers who are annoyed that the raiders are attempting to subvert the nature of the first real solo-oriented game into yet another raiding loot-ladder.
Couple be completely wrong, but I've seen quite a few solo-vs-group discussions spring from it.
You must have missed every MMO released in the last 4 years. "First solo-oriented game". What a crock. Every damn game has been solo oriented for a while now, it's part of the reason the MMO genre is such a steaming pile at the moment.
Where soloers are still second rate. Who gives a crap if there is solo content if it reeks and is unrewarding. The fact that hardcores like you view the genre as a train wreck makes me happy. It must mean the genre is finally starting to head in the right direction by being games, not jobs.
Second rate? How? I'm hardcore now? Interesting. The genre being filled with shallow, linear, unintersting games make it heading in the right direction? Also insteresting. Who wants a game to be a job? Not me. Who wants to pay monthly to play an RPG solo when you can play a single person RPG for me? Sounds stupid to me.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
What I can't for the life of me understand is why someone would want to pay monthly to play an MMORPG by themselves? The entire point is the MMO part, the massive, MULTI-PLAYER, online part. If you want to play solo, just stick with the RPG and save yourselves some money.
You are absolutely clueless and hopless if you can't see the difference between a single player game and soloing in an MMO. That's fine, as long as developers can learn the difference, then that's all that matters.
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone, what does it matter if you are playing an MMO or not? why pay monthly to do so online? Whats the point when you can get far better games in the form of single player RPGs?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
There's a certain irony here, that the MMO sphere wouldn't exist without the hardcore gamer. That WoW wouldn't be here today with out the dedication of thousands of hardcore gamers to games such as Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft. That EQ wouldn't have held it's head above water. That UO's heavy death penalty would have stopped many from conintueing. So now that the old boys have out lived their usefulness their so easily tossed aside. A new age has come, everyone has a computer, everyone has an opinion. In the old day everyone got on the PC with internet to communicate to other people. Now like RL, the virtual world has become so full and over crowded that we barely notice each other. The company of others has become an annoyance rather than a pleasure. It's kind of sad really, though honestly I see it somewhere in the middle. However, I don't approve personally of selling a singleplayer (with slight co-op) game for a subscription fee. Which we're all talking about SW:TOR, whether or not you want to solo play is irrelevant. What if I just plain want to spend time with other players? Why does the massive multiplayer get left out?
What if I just want to sit there interacting with people? What ever happen to that simple pleasure? So far I have not seen a single screenshot or anything else showing any forms of community in SW:TOR. A simple city for instance of players.
There are plenty of hardcore games, old, current and upcoming, so I don't understand your gripe. On top of that, there are plenty of group / raid focused games, also old, current and upcoming, so I don't understand that gripe either. What really pisses me off is that you goup / raid fanatics can't seem to stand the thought of even one single MMO (SWTOR) possibly giving soloers / casuals a game to call their own. The sheer amount of entitlement you people exhibit is mind boggling.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone...
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone...
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I wanna have the choice in games to do solo content also. Since I dont wanna play with others 24/7. I like pvp and grouping also but not all the time. So I am not crying about solo stuff, I like that you have the choice.
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
Or...
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If everyone else is soloing, why are they paying a monthly subscription?
People would rather make THEIR OWN stupid decisions as consumers than listen to your...logic. Sure they could get more out of a real single player game or something similiar to Diablo for free, but they would much rather pay a monthly subscription and justify their decisions on the fact that they CAN do them.
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
Well basically the hardcore guys don't know how to hang out and make friends so they need a game to force people to socialize with them. All the while not realizing that socialization of that kind is doomed to failure from the beginning as its forced and not based on real empathy or feeling. Then when the forced nature is taken away and the mercenary nature of their old games is laid bare they do the old reverse blame trick that most crazy people do.
As this is taken away from them they become more and more neurotic due to lack of human contact. Much like Cabin Fever. Occasionally they just randomly lash out.
Because I hate depending on others. I hate having to wait 3 hours to get a group to do anything. I hate having to see that group totally frak up something that is really easy. I hate having an idiot in the group who just screws around and isn't any help. I hate begging for heals and rezzes only to be shot down. I hate having to wait for someone to 'finish dinner/laundry/etc' before they can come back and we can contine playing. I hate not being able to do anything because someone else is not there.
This doesn't mean I hate grouping all the time, I just hate being FORCED to group. Nor does this mean I don't talk to anyone, I talk quite a bit, I usually join a guild/corp/kin/clan/etc.
I just don't like games that depend on grouping. I like to get in when I want, do what I want (within reason), and get out. I expect a group quest or mission here or there, but again, I want a lot of solo content to fill my time. Frankly, I hate PUGs, and if I am FORCED to play with them all the time, screw that.
I am a teamplayer, there's no doubting that. I enjoy Battlefield, L4D, WAR's team focused PvP was great. But no one else is, and that really pisses me off. So, instead of being pissed off, I don't group much. When I do, only with friends.
Thank You,
- Eric
PS. Just found this on the MMORPG.com homepage, from the article on Cracked "explaining WoW using Super Mario Bros." and it sums up my feelings on grouping pretty well:
"Here’s where it gets tricky. When you tell 25 people to go to The Caverns of Time, seven of them don’t know what that is, two of them aren’t playing anymore, one fell asleep in his pizza, two have to drive their kids to therapy, one tells you to shut the f**k up, four are rebooting their computers, one is getting kicked off by his parents, two are lost foreigners who thought this was the train station, one is pressing enter on the same Chuck Norris joke over and over, two of them tell everyone to go to three different places and one is your girlfriend bitching at you about how much this sucks."
____________________________ Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online --- == RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP == --- Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online --- Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth ____________________________
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Why do I want solo stuff? Because I hate depending on others. I hate having to wait 3 hours to get a group to do anything. I hate having to see that group totally frak up something that is really easy. I hate having an idiot in the group who just screws around and isn't any help. I hate begging for heals and rezzes only to be shot down. I hate having to wait for someone to 'finish dinner/laundry/etc' before they can come back and we can contine playing. I hate not being able to do anything because someone else is not there. This doesn't mean I hate grouping all the time, I just hate being FORCED to group. Nor does this mean I don't talk to anyone, I talk quite a bit, I usually join a guild/corp/kin/clan/etc. I just don't like games that depend on grouping. I like to get in when I want, do what I want (within reason), and get out. I expect a group quest or mission here or there, but again, I want a lot of solo content to fill my time. Frankly, I hate PUGs, and if I am FORCED to play with them all the time, screw that. I am a teamplayer, there's no doubting that. I enjoy Battlefield, L4D, WAR's team focused PvP was great. But no one else is, and that really pisses me off. So, instead of being pissed off, I don't group much. When I do, only with friends.
Thank You,
- Eric
PS. Just found this on the MMORPG.com homepage, from the article on Cracked "explaining WoW using Super Mario Bros." and it sums up my feelings on grouping pretty well: "Here’s where it gets tricky. When you tell 25 people to go to The Caverns of Time, seven of them don’t know what that is, two of them aren’t playing anymore, one fell asleep in his pizza, two have to drive their kids to therapy, one tells you to shut the f**k up, four are rebooting their computers, one is getting kicked off by his parents, two are lost foreigners who thought this was the train station, one is pressing enter on the same Chuck Norris joke over and over, two of them tell everyone to go to three different places and one is your girlfriend bitching at you about how much this sucks."
Originally posted by Abrahmm Second rate? How? I'm hardcore now? Interesting. The genre being filled with shallow, linear, unintersting games make it heading in the right direction? Also insteresting. Who wants a game to be a job? Not me. Who wants to pay monthly to play an RPG solo when you can play a single person RPG for me? Sounds stupid to me.
Kadinv, this is also for aimed at you based on your response to my above post.
Your continuing assertion that solo players are antisocial is both unfounded and ridiculous.
There is no practical difference between someone chatting in a group channel while in an instanced dungeon with 4 other people and someone else chatting in a guild channel while soloing. Both are social interactions, both are communication.
And you can't do either in a single-player game.
Players who prefer solo content are just as social as those who prefer group content; they just don't enjoy the group dynamic as much as the groupers do. If soloers truly were antisocial then they would be playing single-player RPGs. The fact that they're playing MMOs should tell you that they want to enjoy a dynamic and populated persistant world.
They just don't want to do group content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I dont understand why people are actually crying about solo stuff.
Lets say WoW, you can solo the whole leveling era from 1-80 without any problems, does anyone whine about this? No. Why? Because you would propably just lose XP if you did all the quests in a group.
SO; Why are the people crying when devs say that there will be more solo stuff? No idea, that is absolutely stupid.
EDIT: And no, oh no, I dont enjoy to group with someone who can't talk even proper English. Its either grouping with my friends, or with nobody.
I wanna have the choice in games to do solo content also. Since I dont wanna play with others 24/7. I like pvp and grouping also but not all the time. So I am not crying about solo stuff, I like that you have the choice.
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
I never said it was more important. It's nice to have a choice though. There are options being removed either way. Don't be such a hypocrite, man.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone...
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Be in whatever group you want to be in. The point still stands - no matter how many times it is explained to you, you will still pull out the same ridiculous argument. Always.
Cheers!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I wanna have the choice in games to do solo content also. Since I dont wanna play with others 24/7. I like pvp and grouping also but not all the time. So I am not crying about solo stuff, I like that you have the choice.
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
I never said it was more important. It's nice to have a choice though. There are options being removed either way. Don't be such a hypocrite, man.
There's no hypocrisy involved.
If people want to solo in a solo-friendly game then they can solo.
If people want to group in a solo-friendly game then they can group.
The problem is that in order for you to have your "choice", several other people have to make the same "choice" as you, i.e. you are dependant on other people in order for your playstyle to succeed. In a game that isn't solo friendly, that translates to standing around "LFG!" while waiting for enough people to come along to join your party. This is an irritation that you have to accept if you play a forced-grouping game.
If you're playing a solo-friendly game, you're still in the same position that you have to spend time "LFG!", but instead of accepting this as a consequence of your preferred playstyle (as you would if a game was forced-grouping) you complain about the solo players for preferring a different playstyle and blame them for not being able to find a group.
N.B. When I say "you", I'm referring to the group-oriented players in general.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
When did grouping become synonmous with hardcore? A lot of posters here are assuming if you want group content you're a hardcore player.
Why is it so difficult to fathom logging in, creating a group, playing for a couple hours and logging off? Not all group content has to be a 40 man raid on some dungeon that takes 6 hours.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Ok the boat left I must have missed it... When did grouping become synonmous with hardcore? A lot of posters here are assuming if you want group content you're a hardcore player. Why is it so difficult to fathom logging in, creating a group, playing for a couple hours and logging off? Not all group content has to be a 40 man raid on some dungeon that takes 6 hours.
Hardcore is any playstyle that you play because it is painful to play solely that way.
Assembling and keeping a group in a "current style" game where you have access to less than .05% of the community that is logged on because of the leveling/server/PvP/whatever mechanics is painful now matter what you do to say it's not. It's made worse by the pure and simple fact that for those couple hours of playing you'll only get 40 mins of play time because of making groups and reforming them(after someone else leaving who has played how much they wanted to).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Originally posted by Abrahmm Second rate? How? I'm hardcore now? Interesting. The genre being filled with shallow, linear, unintersting games make it heading in the right direction? Also insteresting. Who wants a game to be a job? Not me. Who wants to pay monthly to play an RPG solo when you can play a single person RPG for me? Sounds stupid to me.
Kadinv, this is also for aimed at you based on your response to my above post.
Your continuing assertion that solo players are antisocial is both unfounded and ridiculous.
There is no practical difference between someone chatting in a group channel while in an instanced dungeon with 4 other people and someone else chatting in a guild channel while soloing. Both are social interactions, both are communication.
And you can't do either in a single-player game.
Players who prefer solo content are just as social as those who prefer group content; they just don't enjoy the group dynamic as much as the groupers do. If soloers truly were antisocial then they would be playing single-player RPGs. The fact that they're playing MMOs should tell you that they want to enjoy a dynamic and populated persistant world.
They just don't want to do group content.
Just open up MSN while you play that solo RPG. Problem solved, same experience, less money. You are welcome.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone...
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Be in whatever group you want to be in. The point still stands - no matter how many times it is explained to you, you will still pull out the same ridiculous argument. Always.
Cheers!
And the point still stands, no matter how many times it's explained to me, I have yet to see a valid explanation.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Abrahmm Just open up MSN while you play that solo RPG. Problem solved, same experience, less money. You are welcome.
I'll take that glib drive-by comment as a concession that you recognise that your viewpoint was/is silly.
Seemingly, MMO developers are slowly realising it too and in a few years time we can look forward to games that support all playstyles where we can all coexist without constantly sniping at one anothers choices of playstyle.
..
What? It could happen!
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Comments
There's a certain irony here, that the MMO sphere wouldn't exist without the hardcore gamer. That WoW wouldn't be here today with out the dedication of thousands of hardcore gamers to games such as Diablo, Warcraft, and Starcraft. That EQ wouldn't have held it's head above water. That UO's heavy death penalty would have stopped many from conintueing.
So now that the old boys have out lived their usefulness their so easily tossed aside. A new age has come, everyone has a computer, everyone has an opinion.
In the old day everyone got on the PC with internet to communicate to other people. Now like RL, the virtual world has become so full and over crowded that we barely notice each other. The company of others has become an annoyance rather than a pleasure.
It's kind of sad really, though honestly I see it somewhere in the middle. However, I don't approve personally of selling a singleplayer (with slight co-op) game for a subscription fee. Which we're all talking about SW:TOR, whether or not you want to solo play is irrelevant. What if I just plain want to spend time with other players? Why does the massive multiplayer get left out?
What if I just want to sit there interacting with people? What ever happen to that simple pleasure? So far I have not seen a single screenshot or anything else showing any forms of community in SW:TOR. A simple city for instance of players.
You are absolutely clueless and hopless if you can't see the difference between a single player game and soloing in an MMO. That's fine, as long as developers can learn the difference, then that's all that matters.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
At a complete guess, TOR.
Bioware have recently stated that they're not aiming the game towards hardcore players, but catering to a far more casual/solo crowd. This resulted in an outcry from the hardcore minorities like the raiding "elite" and an ensuing backlash from the soloers who are annoyed that the raiders are attempting to subvert the nature of the first real solo-oriented game into yet another raiding loot-ladder.
Couple be completely wrong, but I've seen quite a few solo-vs-group discussions spring from it.
You must have missed every MMO released in the last 4 years. "First solo-oriented game". What a crock. Every damn game has been solo oriented for a while now, it's part of the reason the MMO genre is such a steaming pile at the moment.
Where soloers are still second rate. Who gives a crap if there is solo content if it reeks and is unrewarding. The fact that hardcores like you view the genre as a train wreck makes me happy. It must mean the genre is finally starting to head in the right direction by being games, not jobs.
Second rate? How? I'm hardcore now? Interesting. The genre being filled with shallow, linear, unintersting games make it heading in the right direction? Also insteresting. Who wants a game to be a job? Not me. Who wants to pay monthly to play an RPG solo when you can play a single person RPG for me? Sounds stupid to me.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
You are absolutely clueless and hopless if you can't see the difference between a single player game and soloing in an MMO. That's fine, as long as developers can learn the difference, then that's all that matters.
Please, do share. If you don't want to interract or talk to anyone, what does it matter if you are playing an MMO or not? why pay monthly to do so online? Whats the point when you can get far better games in the form of single player RPGs?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
There are plenty of hardcore games, old, current and upcoming, so I don't understand your gripe. On top of that, there are plenty of group / raid focused games, also old, current and upcoming, so I don't understand that gripe either. What really pisses me off is that you goup / raid fanatics can't seem to stand the thought of even one single MMO (SWTOR) possibly giving soloers / casuals a game to call their own. The sheer amount of entitlement you people exhibit is mind boggling.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
Or...
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If everyone else is soloing, why are they paying a monthly subscription?
People would rather make THEIR OWN stupid decisions as consumers than listen to your...logic. Sure they could get more out of a real single player game or something similiar to Diablo for free, but they would much rather pay a monthly subscription and justify their decisions on the fact that they CAN do them.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
Well basically the hardcore guys don't know how to hang out and make friends so they need a game to force people to socialize with them. All the while not realizing that socialization of that kind is doomed to failure from the beginning as its forced and not based on real empathy or feeling. Then when the forced nature is taken away and the mercenary nature of their old games is laid bare they do the old reverse blame trick that most crazy people do.
As this is taken away from them they become more and more neurotic due to lack of human contact. Much like Cabin Fever. Occasionally they just randomly lash out.
Simple and obvious. People crying about solo stuff enjoy MMOs for the social aspect... is it really hard to figure that out?
Why do I want solo stuff?
Because I hate depending on others. I hate having to wait 3 hours to get a group to do anything. I hate having to see that group totally frak up something that is really easy. I hate having an idiot in the group who just screws around and isn't any help. I hate begging for heals and rezzes only to be shot down. I hate having to wait for someone to 'finish dinner/laundry/etc' before they can come back and we can contine playing. I hate not being able to do anything because someone else is not there.
This doesn't mean I hate grouping all the time, I just hate being FORCED to group. Nor does this mean I don't talk to anyone, I talk quite a bit, I usually join a guild/corp/kin/clan/etc.
I just don't like games that depend on grouping. I like to get in when I want, do what I want (within reason), and get out. I expect a group quest or mission here or there, but again, I want a lot of solo content to fill my time. Frankly, I hate PUGs, and if I am FORCED to play with them all the time, screw that.
I am a teamplayer, there's no doubting that. I enjoy Battlefield, L4D, WAR's team focused PvP was great. But no one else is, and that really pisses me off. So, instead of being pissed off, I don't group much. When I do, only with friends.
Thank You,
- Eric
PS. Just found this on the MMORPG.com homepage, from the article on Cracked "explaining WoW using Super Mario Bros." and it sums up my feelings on grouping pretty well:
"Here’s where it gets tricky. When you tell 25 people to go to The Caverns of Time, seven of them don’t know what that is, two of them aren’t playing anymore, one fell asleep in his pizza, two have to drive their kids to therapy, one tells you to shut the f**k up, four are rebooting their computers, one is getting kicked off by his parents, two are lost foreigners who thought this was the train station, one is pressing enter on the same Chuck Norris joke over and over, two of them tell everyone to go to three different places and one is your girlfriend bitching at you about how much this sucks."
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Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online
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== RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP ==
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Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online
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Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
Lol! I love you.
Maybe because there is a big range of MMO games to chose from for PC now, but the range of choice of similar non-MMO games is very small.
Kadinv, this is also for aimed at you based on your response to my above post.
Your continuing assertion that solo players are antisocial is both unfounded and ridiculous.
There is no practical difference between someone chatting in a group channel while in an instanced dungeon with 4 other people and someone else chatting in a guild channel while soloing. Both are social interactions, both are communication.
And you can't do either in a single-player game.
Players who prefer solo content are just as social as those who prefer group content; they just don't enjoy the group dynamic as much as the groupers do. If soloers truly were antisocial then they would be playing single-player RPGs. The fact that they're playing MMOs should tell you that they want to enjoy a dynamic and populated persistant world.
They just don't want to do group content.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I dont understand why people are actually crying about solo stuff.
Lets say WoW, you can solo the whole leveling era from 1-80 without any problems, does anyone whine about this? No. Why? Because you would propably just lose XP if you did all the quests in a group.
SO; Why are the people crying when devs say that there will be more solo stuff? No idea, that is absolutely stupid.
EDIT: And no, oh no, I dont enjoy to group with someone who can't talk even proper English. Its either grouping with my friends, or with nobody.
Thank you, now I can go to toilet.
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
I never said it was more important. It's nice to have a choice though. There are options being removed either way. Don't be such a hypocrite, man.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Be in whatever group you want to be in. The point still stands - no matter how many times it is explained to you, you will still pull out the same ridiculous argument. Always.
Cheers!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
That's fine. But what if I want to group with someone and the only other players on my server that are my level are content to just solo away? Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
At that point, you have to ask yourself: If I'm the only person who wants to group, why is my preference more important than that of every other player who doesn't?
In this situation, you can still solo yourself. It might not be entirely to your preference, but you can still play and have fun. That option would be removed if the situation were reversed.
I never said it was more important. It's nice to have a choice though. There are options being removed either way. Don't be such a hypocrite, man.
There's no hypocrisy involved.
If people want to solo in a solo-friendly game then they can solo.
If people want to group in a solo-friendly game then they can group.
The problem is that in order for you to have your "choice", several other people have to make the same "choice" as you, i.e. you are dependant on other people in order for your playstyle to succeed. In a game that isn't solo friendly, that translates to standing around "LFG!" while waiting for enough people to come along to join your party. This is an irritation that you have to accept if you play a forced-grouping game.
If you're playing a solo-friendly game, you're still in the same position that you have to spend time "LFG!", but instead of accepting this as a consequence of your preferred playstyle (as you would if a game was forced-grouping) you complain about the solo players for preferring a different playstyle and blame them for not being able to find a group.
N.B. When I say "you", I'm referring to the group-oriented players in general.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I have concluded that the arguement between "pure" groupers VS. everyone else... Is no different than "pure" PvP's and everyone else.
There's all the same arguements as well:
It's an MMO why else would you play you asdfa
The game has no purpose without my mechanic, as I want. Disagree and you're stupid.
This is what MMOs are made for, you just don't realize it yet.
How can you possibly enjoy your playstyle when there's all those people you don't need to interact with now
And a few more I'm sure.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Here's my comment on the issue:
Community: Best When Forced!
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
Ok the boat left I must have missed it...
When did grouping become synonmous with hardcore? A lot of posters here are assuming if you want group content you're a hardcore player.
Why is it so difficult to fathom logging in, creating a group, playing for a couple hours and logging off? Not all group content has to be a 40 man raid on some dungeon that takes 6 hours.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Hardcore is any playstyle that you play because it is painful to play solely that way.
Assembling and keeping a group in a "current style" game where you have access to less than .05% of the community that is logged on because of the leveling/server/PvP/whatever mechanics is painful now matter what you do to say it's not. It's made worse by the pure and simple fact that for those couple hours of playing you'll only get 40 mins of play time because of making groups and reforming them(after someone else leaving who has played how much they wanted to).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Kadinv, this is also for aimed at you based on your response to my above post.
Your continuing assertion that solo players are antisocial is both unfounded and ridiculous.
There is no practical difference between someone chatting in a group channel while in an instanced dungeon with 4 other people and someone else chatting in a guild channel while soloing. Both are social interactions, both are communication.
And you can't do either in a single-player game.
Players who prefer solo content are just as social as those who prefer group content; they just don't enjoy the group dynamic as much as the groupers do. If soloers truly were antisocial then they would be playing single-player RPGs. The fact that they're playing MMOs should tell you that they want to enjoy a dynamic and populated persistant world.
They just don't want to do group content.
Just open up MSN while you play that solo RPG. Problem solved, same experience, less money. You are welcome.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Despite countless posts where people have repeatedly explained the difference between talking/interacting and grouping, the "group or die" crowd will always... ALWAYS... pull out this argument.
Now I'm in the "group or die" crowd too? Wow I'm getting all sorts of labels tonight.
Be in whatever group you want to be in. The point still stands - no matter how many times it is explained to you, you will still pull out the same ridiculous argument. Always.
Cheers!
And the point still stands, no matter how many times it's explained to me, I have yet to see a valid explanation.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I'll take that glib drive-by comment as a concession that you recognise that your viewpoint was/is silly.
Seemingly, MMO developers are slowly realising it too and in a few years time we can look forward to games that support all playstyles where we can all coexist without constantly sniping at one anothers choices of playstyle.
..
What? It could happen!
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift