I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
This is no official review. It's promotion by a developer
If a site like MMORPG.com or IGN.com writes a review, then it's review
Hmmm what are you on about?! That was written by a player, wether you want to call it a personal review a player review or whatever its a review a PLAYER REVIEWED the game. It was posted by the developers but its still the player who wrote the REVIEW.
Now you can say that reviews are more acurate when they are made by a gaming site , fair enough its your opinion, but what was posted was a review non the less.
I would not call that a "review", as it is not complete enough to be seen as a review of MO, nor can it be considered unbiased since devs have picked to show it.
This is no official review. It's promotion by a developer
If a site like MMORPG.com or IGN.com writes a review, then it's review
Hmmm what are you on about?! That was written by a player, wether you want to call it a personal review a player review or whatever its a review a PLAYER REVIEWED the game. It was posted by the developers but its still the player who wrote the REVIEW.
Now you can say that reviews are more acurate when they are made by a gaming site , fair enough its your opinion, but what was posted was a review non the less.
I would not call that a "review", as it is not complete enough to be seen as a review of MO, nor can it be considered unbiased since devs have picked to show it.
But sure, a short, possibly biased review, yes.
Agreed, it will be biased, it was picked by the devs they probably picked one that would inspire other ppl and hype them up a litle bit, non the less there was enough "honesty" for me to continue having hope if that makes any sense, but its still a review , maybe not a "complete review" but he reviewed combat, I can review how wonderfull mcdonal's chips are without having to review the entire restaurant, its still a review not complete but a review.
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Originally posted by jonrd463 Originally posted by Saerain I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
That's like asking, "what realistic gameplay purpose does weather add?"
I don't think it has anything to do with gameplay (neither adding to nor detracting from). It has more to do with immersion and realism. Not everything in the game needs to directly affect gameplay in order to be a viable addition.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
blah blah blah, obviously the devs want to hype the game here. anyways, I care less. But chances are they will censor full frontal (at least for US) on the last minute and put some loincloth. we know that in US a naked man is wrong.
This reminds me about all the hype related to nudity in Age of Conan. What people ended up with were some cartoon breasts and a broken game that was missing advertised gameplay features.
Then the breasts started getting covered up via game updates, and people who paid to see pixelated naughty parts cried foul. To me this just says, "gimmick."
I don't really have an inclination to see some avatar's virtual package. Really, I'd just like to see a new MMO that works and has fun gameplay. There's been a shortage of that lately imo.
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
That's like asking, "what realistic gameplay purpose does weather add?"
Weather is experienced by everyone who plays the game. Some people alter their playstyle according to the weather. Loud, thunderous rain can mask the sounds of an enemy stealthily pursuing you. If implemented well, a dark overcast can cause a general desaturation in the colors of the environment making it easier to hide in shadows. On clear, sunny days, the visibility can allow you to see greater distances. Sunshine could cause armor to glint in the distance, alerting you to the presence of other people down in that valley, or up on the mountainside ahead.
That's a bad example.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
I hear ya....but honestly, this is the honest reason.
This is a fantasy game. Blood doesnt enhance combat, but its a visual additive to an action in a fantasy game, and is a result, realistically, to what's seen when you strike someone with a sword.
That's no different than a more realistic result that occurs when someone takes off their cloths; you see everything.
I understand neither the childish tittering over the notion nor the prudish raging against it. As far as I am concerned, this is just another notch in the belt of realism Mortal Online wears in attempting to simulate their world. I respect a developer that sticks to their guns in this manner. See: CCP.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
I hear ya....but honestly, this is the honest reason.
This is a fantasy game. Blood doesnt enhance combat, but its a visual additive to an action in a fantasy game, and is a result, realistically, to what's seen when you strike someone with a sword.
That's no different than a more realistic result that occurs when someone takes off their cloths; you see everything.
Alright, I hear ya. So, what reason would anyone have to take off their clothes in a combat-focused game?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Originally posted by jonrd463 Weather is experienced by everyone who plays the game. Some people alter their playstyle according to the weather. Loud, thunderous rain can mask the sounds of an enemy stealthily pursuing you. If implemented well, a dark overcast can cause a general desaturation in the colors of the environment making it easier to hide in shadows. On clear, sunny days, the visibility can allow you to see greater distances. Sunshine could cause armor to glint in the distance, alerting you to the presence of other people down in that valley, or up on the mountainside ahead.
Weather is a perfectly valid example. You start your examples with a really big "if". Most of your examples about how weather affects gameplay have never been implemented in a game. If MO has even half of the effects you list, then it'll have the best weather effects of any MMO that I've tried to date. The only one I'll grant you is the loud weather masking the sound of approach. That would be very nice to have in-game.
To date, weather has basically been an audio/visual addition to the game, that's it. Ryzom has weather-related materials in the game which is one of the few exceptions I've come across.
Originally posted by jonrd463 Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed. Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
Blood may add a visceral feel, but it doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. Would it perhaps add a bit more "realism" to combat? Facial hair adds more variety but also doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. Again, "realism" as well as variety. Boobs... well, they're boobs. Can't really leave them off female toons.
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Originally posted by jonrd463 Alright, I hear ya. So, what reason would anyone have to take off their clothes in a combat-focused game?
Because the game isn't all about combat, thankfully.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
After doing a little research, it looks like weather will have some role on combat in Aion. Fire-based attacks will have their damage reduced during thunderstorms, while electricity-based attacks will have their damage increased. This is quite cool, and I hope other MMOs implement this and and a lot more weather-related gameplay. My argument for weather is crumbling right in front of me!
Blood and facial hair are still valid examples. As are visual details such as grass, flowers, waves, insects, trees blowing in the wind, etc.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Originally posted by jonrd463 Originally posted by Nizur
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Originally posted by jonrd463 Originally posted by Nizur
Originally posted by jonrd463
Originally posted by Nizur You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off. 2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves. 3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things. These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!" I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above. So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game. That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all. Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
That's a pretty good reason, I'll give you that. But with regard to the flowers, grass, tattoos, etc, they do add to the gameplay. The landscape features enhance the look of areas you're traveling in and different flora in different areas creates a theme to give areas character. Areas which every player is bound to travel through eventually. How bland would it be if everything was the same? Likewise, the tattoos are a feature that differentiate people and allow for some customization to the appearance of the character. Better to offer different choices in features, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles, hair colors, facial hair, etc. than to have everyone looking the same. If it were a case of "Do we allocate X amount of funds towards anotomically correct sexual organs or more variety of scenery?" I'd say go for the scenery, hands down. I'm not saying that the inclusion of nudity is to the detriment of some other game feature of course, but it should be pretty clear what between nudity and those other things serves a greater purpose for the game experience.
Now, with regard to your example, that would be awesome if people devoted that much attention to roleplaying. I seriously doubt it would happen, however if having nudity somehow means the community will be focusing on roleplaying over mindless PEWPEWPEW!!!, I say bring it on. Make love, not war, right?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
That's a pretty good reason, I'll give you that. But with regard to the flowers, grass, tattoos, etc, they do add to the gameplay. The landscape features enhance the look of areas you're traveling in and different flora in different areas creates a theme to give areas character. Areas which every player is bound to travel through eventually. How bland would it be if everything was the same? Likewise, the tattoos are a feature that differentiate people and allow for some customization to the appearance of the character. Better to offer different choices in features, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles, hair colors, facial hair, etc. than to have everyone looking the same. If it were a case of "Do we allocate X amount of funds towards anotomically correct sexual organs or more variety of scenery?" I'd say go for the scenery, hands down. I'm not saying that the inclusion of nudity is to the detriment of some other game feature of course, but it should be pretty clear what between nudity and those other things serves a greater purpose for the game experience.
Now, with regard to your example, that would be awesome if people devoted that much attention to roleplaying. I seriously doubt it would happen, however if having nudity somehow means the community will be focusing on roleplaying over mindless PEWPEWPEW!!!, I say bring it on. Make love, not war, right?
I don't fit easily into your categories but the first and third are closest to my feelings of nudity in the game. If MO did not have nudity I would definitely still be interested in the game. It has no effect on my subscription status whatsoever. That said, I think nudity in game offers a unique dynamic not found in other MMO's; that's the progressive part. So far in this thread we have been assuming nudity means players will be running around teabagging others. I honestly don't believe there will be much of that if any at all. It might just be that we could see much less nudity in game. The taboos we hold as players could very easily exist in the game as well. Our avatars must pay better attention to their surroundings before changing armor and clothing. Nudity might get you kicked out of some guilds or make local authorities suspicious. Who knows?! It is what we players make of it. It's what the devs make of it. We have to try the feature first before we attack the idea.
We cannot sit here and assume this will be like other MMO's we had played, add nudity; then you have teabaggers. And we cannot talk about how nudity affects gameplay without including other features of the game because those features affect ALL of the player's experience. In the context of a revamped UI, movement, combat system, and crafting system, we do not have much to compare to - only speculation on how this would all work together.
What I hope is built into the system is the effects of cold and heat. I think tundra settings should require an avatar to dress warm like the Kallard. The Veela may be a more equatorial race and wear less. But when in cold climates they should dress appropriate or loose attributes. Likewise with the Kallard in warmer climates; would it not be realistic to overheat under all that mail, plate, and leather in the hot, sweltering jungle? And how does stripping armor away affect the Kallardian culturally or practically? Does nudity mean minus a breast plate or showing genitals. Do the Veelans care what a Kallard wears or what they, themselves wear for that matter as long as their totems can be sketched onto it? These are the questions I've been hoping would be brought up in this thread - roleplaying. A concept we don't here much of. I think we as players loose track of all that in our own details as players we forget that this is all just fantasy and not us killing that wildebeest at all.
So far in this thread we have been assuming nudity means players will be running around teabagging others. Anyone who has spent any number of years playing MMOs knows that if there is a way for idiots to do things to harrass other players in ways outside of anything reasonably pertaining to the game they will do it and with tremendous passion. Log into any WoW server and go to Goldshire. Count the people who STILL, after 5 years of this game, think that running around as naked as the game allows is cool and funny. I honestly don't believe there will be much of that if any at all. It might just be that we could see much less nudity in game. The taboos we hold as players could very easily exist in the game as well. For some, perhaps. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't be running around in the buff, because I personally see no reason to that doesn't include some form of attention whoring. Our avatars must pay better attention to their surroundings before changing armor and clothing. How so? What difference is there between a loincloth and nothing in terms of defense? Nudity might get you kicked out of some guilds or make local authorities suspicious. Who knows?! It is what we players make of it. It's what the devs make of it. We have to try the feature first before we attack the idea. I agree to a point. I've just been involved in MMOs and online society long enough to understand human nature in that context. I don't claim a monopoly on this, as I'm pretty sure others here know exactly what I'm talking about. We cannot sit here and assume this will be like other MMO's we had played, add nudity; then you have teabaggers. And we cannot talk about how nudity affects gameplay without including other features of the game because those features affect ALL of the player's experience. In the context of a revamped UI, movement, combat system, and crafting system, we do not have much to compare to - only speculation on how this would all work together. I agree again, but to a point. All of this is just speculation, since the game isn't out yet. Add in a healthy dose of cynicism based on other developers who claimed "different" and "innovative". Sure, we can't truly know how the game will be until we play it, but the industry itself has a long line of developers promising "this", but delivering "that". It's not just Darkfall, either. There's WAR, AoC, and Vanguard to name a few. All of them failed to live up to their hype and ended up being variations on the same elements we've seen in every other MMO since Everquest. So, until we know any different, it's safe and reasonable to assume that people are going to behave the same way they do in every other game, and the game is going to play out the same as every other MMO that presumed to declare itself a unique snowflake. I'm really hoping Star Vault will release something special, but all we can go on as of this posting is what little info we've been given. So, with regard to full frontal nudity, there is nothing to indicate that it's in the game for any other purpose than to be there, thus having no other use than as an tool for annoyance. Sure, some people my roleplay a cult who use nudity for ritualistic purposes, but that's not going to be what the average player sees. The average player is going to be treated to the average asshole running through a town naked and /yelling "LOLOLOLOLOLO LOOK AT MAH DICK!"
That's where the conundrum lies. The good reasons for nudity pertain to isolated uses and while plausible, they pale in comparison to what the reality will be. If I have faith in one thing, it's in the inevitability of jackasses in a MMO.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Jon, there is no "conundrum". People have given you their reasons for appreciating yet another aspect of MO's adherance to realism, and you simply choose to dismiss that reason because you cannot fathom that some people may have a maturity level greater than what you attribute to them.
What you have here is the sound of one hand clapping. Stop...you're just making your shoulder tired.
Jon, there is no "conundrum". People have given you their reasons for appreciating yet another aspect of MO's adherance to realism, and you simply choose to dismiss that reason because you cannot fathom that some people may have a maturity level greater than what you attribute to them. What you have here is the sound of one hand clapping. Stop...you're just making your shoulder tired.
Totally missing the point. I ask "What is the use?" I read, "For realism!". I then ask, "In what way?". I read, "Because it is!"
Maturity level is irrelevant. In fact, please tell me how a passive feature in a game is mature? Is it based on the merits of simply existing? If so, then what would be removed from the experience if Star Vault opted for perma-undies?
No one seems to be able to answer these questions.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Jon, there is no "conundrum". People have given you their reasons for appreciating yet another aspect of MO's adherance to realism, and you simply choose to dismiss that reason because you cannot fathom that some people may have a maturity level greater than what you attribute to them. What you have here is the sound of one hand clapping. Stop...you're just making your shoulder tired.
Totally missing the point. I ask "What is the use?" I read, "For realism!". I then ask, "In what way?". I read, "Because it is!"
Maturity level is irrelevant. In fact, please tell me how a passive feature in a game is mature? Is it based on the merits of simply existing? If so, then what would be removed from the experience if Star Vault opted for perma-undies?
No one seems to be able to answer these questions.
Because they are inanities, along the lines of "why is the sky blue? Why isn't it green?"
When a character takes it's clothes off in MO, that character's anatomy has all the parts that one would expect to find on a naked person. If you can't understand how this is realistic, then no amount of posting here is going to help.
Maturity IS relevant, since you seem determined that the only reaon anyone would be an advocate for such realistic details would be for immature reasons. You cannot simply grasp the fact that every detail adds to the overall realistic experience. Nudity, clouds, leaves on the trees, they all contribute to the toality of the realistic presentation.
Ask yourself why genitals on your character are any less "mature" than fingers, or toes. Any less or more essential?? You don't need toes on your virtual body...but having them adds to the suspension of disbelief....the realism...the immersion factor.
Now, I'm done with this. You're obviously arguing for the sake of argument.
Comments
This.
Well said, man. /tiphat
This is no official review. It's promotion by a developer
If a site like MMORPG.com or IGN.com writes a review, then it's review
Hmmm what are you on about?! That was written by a player, wether you want to call it a personal review a player review or whatever its a review a PLAYER REVIEWED the game. It was posted by the developers but its still the player who wrote the REVIEW.
Now you can say that reviews are more acurate when they are made by a gaming site , fair enough its your opinion, but what was posted was a review non the less.
I would not call that a "review", as it is not complete enough to be seen as a review of MO, nor can it be considered unbiased since devs have picked to show it.
But sure, a short, possibly biased review, yes.
My gaming blog
This is no official review. It's promotion by a developer
If a site like MMORPG.com or IGN.com writes a review, then it's review
Hmmm what are you on about?! That was written by a player, wether you want to call it a personal review a player review or whatever its a review a PLAYER REVIEWED the game. It was posted by the developers but its still the player who wrote the REVIEW.
Now you can say that reviews are more acurate when they are made by a gaming site , fair enough its your opinion, but what was posted was a review non the less.
I would not call that a "review", as it is not complete enough to be seen as a review of MO, nor can it be considered unbiased since devs have picked to show it.
But sure, a short, possibly biased review, yes.
Agreed, it will be biased, it was picked by the devs they probably picked one that would inspire other ppl and hype them up a litle bit, non the less there was enough "honesty" for me to continue having hope if that makes any sense, but its still a review , maybe not a "complete review" but he reviewed combat, I can review how wonderfull mcdonal's chips are without having to review the entire restaurant, its still a review not complete but a review.
Least be glad there's no blue glowing people in that game...
that will do the "Helicopter" with their no-noes in public...
As disturbing as it sounds, I could see it happening. Thanks for that, the mental image made me laugh.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
That's like asking, "what realistic gameplay purpose does weather add?"
I don't think it has anything to do with gameplay (neither adding to nor detracting from). It has more to do with immersion and realism. Not everything in the game needs to directly affect gameplay in order to be a viable addition.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
This reminds me about all the hype related to nudity in Age of Conan. What people ended up with were some cartoon breasts and a broken game that was missing advertised gameplay features.
Then the breasts started getting covered up via game updates, and people who paid to see pixelated naughty parts cried foul. To me this just says, "gimmick."
I don't really have an inclination to see some avatar's virtual package. Really, I'd just like to see a new MMO that works and has fun gameplay. There's been a shortage of that lately imo.
Least be glad there's no blue glowing people in that game...
that will do the "Helicopter" with their no-noes in public...
As disturbing as it sounds, I could see it happening. Thanks for that, the mental image made me laugh.
DISCLAIMER:
If you can't take a bit of crude humor . . . don't click the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPKvwd9vJZY
Sorry, I had to.
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|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
That's like asking, "what realistic gameplay purpose does weather add?"
Weather is experienced by everyone who plays the game. Some people alter their playstyle according to the weather. Loud, thunderous rain can mask the sounds of an enemy stealthily pursuing you. If implemented well, a dark overcast can cause a general desaturation in the colors of the environment making it easier to hide in shadows. On clear, sunny days, the visibility can allow you to see greater distances. Sunshine could cause armor to glint in the distance, alerting you to the presence of other people down in that valley, or up on the mountainside ahead.
That's a bad example.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
I hear ya....but honestly, this is the honest reason.
This is a fantasy game. Blood doesnt enhance combat, but its a visual additive to an action in a fantasy game, and is a result, realistically, to what's seen when you strike someone with a sword.
That's no different than a more realistic result that occurs when someone takes off their cloths; you see everything.
So, once again, I have to ask, what realistic gameplay purpose does nudity add?
Interesting question. Thinking about it, what have such level of detail with:
- clouds in a sky.
- blood splattered on the ground.
- facial hair for male characters.
- boobs for female characters.
Hmmm...thinking about it, its just another level of detail.
Clouds everyone in an outside environment that everyone can see. Blood as an enhancement to combat, adding a visceral feel to it. Facial hair to accent individuality and provide an added level of variety, and boobs... well, if you mean female character models having boobs, it's a physical trait that women have that are obvious even when fully clothed.
Understand, I'm not arguing against having nudity in the game. I'm arguing against the rationale of players promoting it as "brave" or "progressive" or "realistic", since so far, the only honest reasons (imo) that have been given for why nudity should be in the game is specific to male toons teabagging defeated foes. While I have my own opinion about people like that, they at least don't hide behind some pretentious abstracted reason that has no substance.
I hear ya....but honestly, this is the honest reason.
This is a fantasy game. Blood doesnt enhance combat, but its a visual additive to an action in a fantasy game, and is a result, realistically, to what's seen when you strike someone with a sword.
That's no different than a more realistic result that occurs when someone takes off their cloths; you see everything.
Alright, I hear ya. So, what reason would anyone have to take off their clothes in a combat-focused game?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Weather is a perfectly valid example. You start your examples with a really big "if". Most of your examples about how weather affects gameplay have never been implemented in a game. If MO has even half of the effects you list, then it'll have the best weather effects of any MMO that I've tried to date. The only one I'll grant you is the loud weather masking the sound of approach. That would be very nice to have in-game.
To date, weather has basically been an audio/visual addition to the game, that's it. Ryzom has weather-related materials in the game which is one of the few exceptions I've come across.
Blood may add a visceral feel, but it doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. Would it perhaps add a bit more "realism" to combat? Facial hair adds more variety but also doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. Again, "realism" as well as variety. Boobs... well, they're boobs. Can't really leave them off female toons.
You obviously have written off all other reasons besides teabagging as pretentious. It doesn't matter what reason anyone posits.
Because the game isn't all about combat, thankfully.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
After doing a little research, it looks like weather will have some role on combat in Aion. Fire-based attacks will have their damage reduced during thunderstorms, while electricity-based attacks will have their damage increased. This is quite cool, and I hope other MMOs implement this and and a lot more weather-related gameplay. My argument for weather is crumbling right in front of me!
Blood and facial hair are still valid examples. As are visual details such as grass, flowers, waves, insects, trees blowing in the wind, etc.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
That's a pretty good reason, I'll give you that. But with regard to the flowers, grass, tattoos, etc, they do add to the gameplay. The landscape features enhance the look of areas you're traveling in and different flora in different areas creates a theme to give areas character. Areas which every player is bound to travel through eventually. How bland would it be if everything was the same? Likewise, the tattoos are a feature that differentiate people and allow for some customization to the appearance of the character. Better to offer different choices in features, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles, hair colors, facial hair, etc. than to have everyone looking the same. If it were a case of "Do we allocate X amount of funds towards anotomically correct sexual organs or more variety of scenery?" I'd say go for the scenery, hands down. I'm not saying that the inclusion of nudity is to the detriment of some other game feature of course, but it should be pretty clear what between nudity and those other things serves a greater purpose for the game experience.
Now, with regard to your example, that would be awesome if people devoted that much attention to roleplaying. I seriously doubt it would happen, however if having nudity somehow means the community will be focusing on roleplaying over mindless PEWPEWPEW!!!, I say bring it on. Make love, not war, right?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Only pretentious in terms of hiding what I think (that's "think", as in my opinion) is a real reason. See, let me put it a different way. I've seen that there are three distinct camps that have formed around this subject:
1. Pro Nudity. These people place a level of importance on the feature by saying it's an admirably brave and progressive move by Star Vault. In general, they see any opposing viewpoint as "puritanical" and will often toss in some anti-American sentiment about nudity vs. violence. Some of the more militant among this group are adamantly opposed to a game toggle allowing individuals to turn off the feature, and will insist that such people should choose a different game if they don't like it. Then, of course, there are those who have stated in no uncertain terms that they will use this feature to get their teabagging jollies off.
2. Anti-Nudity. These people don't want to see nudity in the game, and don't want anyone else to either. They have a "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" mentality, despite the game being marketed as an adult game. They feel that responsibility in monitoring what their children see lies in the hands of the game developers rather than themselves.
3. Indifferent. These people don't care one way or another, because the addition or lack of nudity in the game has zero affect on their enjoyment. They have no problem with the player having a choice of what is displayed on their screen by way of a toggle setting. Otherwise, they could care less, because it's such a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.
These are generalizations, and I know that not everyone fits solidly into one category, but I think it's a pretty accurate breakdown. Myself, I'm in the 3rd group, but I'm trying to figure out just what motivates the first group. The second group is pretty obvious. They have their nudity hangups. Pretty cut and dry there. But the first group, with the exception of the teabaggers, is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have some theories. For instance, I think the ones who are opposed to a toggle are also ones who plan on doing the teabagging, because it nullifies whatever "oomph" full nudity would have on their peurile little gesture. The second theory I have is that the ones tossing up the "realism" argument, or non sequitirs like "Because you're born naked!" deep down inside like the feature because... well... "LOL! COCK AND BALLS! WEEEEE!!!"
I keep challenging posts from the Pro Nudity group because I'd like 1 of 2 things to happen. I'd like to either be educated on what real merits having nudity in a game that has no active feature that makes use of nudity (such as a variant of Hot Coffee) exist that ehance the gameplay, or I want to prove or disprove my second theory above.
So far, I've seen nothing to disprove my second theory. Merely my opinion, of course.
I would place myself in the third group. It doesn't matter to me if it's in the game or not, or whether there's a toggle for it in settings. I still think the addition of it falls into the realism category. Sure you'll have people squeal with glee about the possibility of teabagging others in combat, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for adding it to the game.
That's just it... I don't get how it's realistic if there's no way for the feature to enhance the gameplay. And let's be honest, we play games for the gameplay, right? That is, the act of doing what the game allows for, such as killing mobs and/or other players, crafting items, building cities, establishing politics, and so on. Where does nudity fit into all of that? If Star Vault had said from the beginning that characters would be able to have sex, I wouldn't question it or the inclusion of nudity. In this case, nudity would be an active enhancement to a part of the gameplay, much like blood enhances combat. As it stands, it's just there to be there. It's not progressive or brave or any of those things. It serves no in-game function. At all.
Maybe the better question would be "What would the game be lacking if nudity were removed?"
I can't say why nudity will be included in the game. If toons can have sex in-game, it wouldn't be a first for an MMO. Underworld has already done that. All I know is nudity will be in the game at launch, or at least it's planned to be.
The game wouldn't be lacking anything if nudity were removed, but the same can be said for grass, flowers, and the other items listed in earlier posts. Tattoos are another item in the game that don't affect gameplay in the slightest. They're simply for looks and variety. If one of their selling points is gritty realism, then nudity is part of that.
Here's an example of nudity being used in the game for something other than teabagging:
There will be gods in the game that have followers. It's even stated you can start your own religion with its own god, and if you gain enough followers, your god can "enter the Pantheon" whatever that means. Perhaps someone starts a religion and builds a temple for their god. Followers can give offerings to their god. Give alms. Whatever. Perhaps the temple's priestesses are harlots? Perhaps the priests/priestesses have to offer sacrifices naked? Maybe their religion uses sex in their rites? Who knows? The point is they can.
Does nudity HAVE to be in the game to allow for this? Not really, but allowing nudity in the game makes it that much more real and gives the players that much more freedom to do whatever they want.
That's a pretty good reason, I'll give you that. But with regard to the flowers, grass, tattoos, etc, they do add to the gameplay. The landscape features enhance the look of areas you're traveling in and different flora in different areas creates a theme to give areas character. Areas which every player is bound to travel through eventually. How bland would it be if everything was the same? Likewise, the tattoos are a feature that differentiate people and allow for some customization to the appearance of the character. Better to offer different choices in features, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles, hair colors, facial hair, etc. than to have everyone looking the same. If it were a case of "Do we allocate X amount of funds towards anotomically correct sexual organs or more variety of scenery?" I'd say go for the scenery, hands down. I'm not saying that the inclusion of nudity is to the detriment of some other game feature of course, but it should be pretty clear what between nudity and those other things serves a greater purpose for the game experience.
Now, with regard to your example, that would be awesome if people devoted that much attention to roleplaying. I seriously doubt it would happen, however if having nudity somehow means the community will be focusing on roleplaying over mindless PEWPEWPEW!!!, I say bring it on. Make love, not war, right?
I don't fit easily into your categories but the first and third are closest to my feelings of nudity in the game. If MO did not have nudity I would definitely still be interested in the game. It has no effect on my subscription status whatsoever. That said, I think nudity in game offers a unique dynamic not found in other MMO's; that's the progressive part. So far in this thread we have been assuming nudity means players will be running around teabagging others. I honestly don't believe there will be much of that if any at all. It might just be that we could see much less nudity in game. The taboos we hold as players could very easily exist in the game as well. Our avatars must pay better attention to their surroundings before changing armor and clothing. Nudity might get you kicked out of some guilds or make local authorities suspicious. Who knows?! It is what we players make of it. It's what the devs make of it. We have to try the feature first before we attack the idea.
We cannot sit here and assume this will be like other MMO's we had played, add nudity; then you have teabaggers. And we cannot talk about how nudity affects gameplay without including other features of the game because those features affect ALL of the player's experience. In the context of a revamped UI, movement, combat system, and crafting system, we do not have much to compare to - only speculation on how this would all work together.
What I hope is built into the system is the effects of cold and heat. I think tundra settings should require an avatar to dress warm like the Kallard. The Veela may be a more equatorial race and wear less. But when in cold climates they should dress appropriate or loose attributes. Likewise with the Kallard in warmer climates; would it not be realistic to overheat under all that mail, plate, and leather in the hot, sweltering jungle? And how does stripping armor away affect the Kallardian culturally or practically? Does nudity mean minus a breast plate or showing genitals. Do the Veelans care what a Kallard wears or what they, themselves wear for that matter as long as their totems can be sketched onto it? These are the questions I've been hoping would be brought up in this thread - roleplaying. A concept we don't here much of. I think we as players loose track of all that in our own details as players we forget that this is all just fantasy and not us killing that wildebeest at all.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Jon, there is no "conundrum". People have given you their reasons for appreciating yet another aspect of MO's adherance to realism, and you simply choose to dismiss that reason because you cannot fathom that some people may have a maturity level greater than what you attribute to them.
What you have here is the sound of one hand clapping. Stop...you're just making your shoulder tired.
Totally missing the point. I ask "What is the use?" I read, "For realism!". I then ask, "In what way?". I read, "Because it is!"
Maturity level is irrelevant. In fact, please tell me how a passive feature in a game is mature? Is it based on the merits of simply existing? If so, then what would be removed from the experience if Star Vault opted for perma-undies?
No one seems to be able to answer these questions.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Totally missing the point. I ask "What is the use?" I read, "For realism!". I then ask, "In what way?". I read, "Because it is!"
Maturity level is irrelevant. In fact, please tell me how a passive feature in a game is mature? Is it based on the merits of simply existing? If so, then what would be removed from the experience if Star Vault opted for perma-undies?
No one seems to be able to answer these questions.
Because they are inanities, along the lines of "why is the sky blue? Why isn't it green?"
When a character takes it's clothes off in MO, that character's anatomy has all the parts that one would expect to find on a naked person. If you can't understand how this is realistic, then no amount of posting here is going to help.
Maturity IS relevant, since you seem determined that the only reaon anyone would be an advocate for such realistic details would be for immature reasons. You cannot simply grasp the fact that every detail adds to the overall realistic experience. Nudity, clouds, leaves on the trees, they all contribute to the toality of the realistic presentation.
Ask yourself why genitals on your character are any less "mature" than fingers, or toes. Any less or more essential?? You don't need toes on your virtual body...but having them adds to the suspension of disbelief....the realism...the immersion factor.
Now, I'm done with this. You're obviously arguing for the sake of argument.