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not what i was hoping for

13

Comments

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,378
    Originally posted by Moirae


    Oh come on, seriously. One of the best game companies in the world is making this game and everyone is flipping out over nothing.

    Not everyone is flipping out, only the ones who haven't gotten over the fact that this isn't going to be swg 2.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • OzrykOzryk Member Posts: 88
    Originally posted by Phry

    Originally posted by CoffeeGrunt


    Game not  released = 1 person sayin im dissappointed =person have no clue =blub blub
    wait till release test it  then run your mouth



     

    thats a good point, the game isnt even in alpha yet, so we have no idea what the final version will be, so far all their doing is talking about it, and its not like theres been all that much of that either, we know its got a storyline, though whether the storyline is essential, or even central to the game, we're not entirely sure, its early days, it may be over a year yet before we get a clearer view of what the game will be like.

     

    lol... of course it's in Alpha.

    Do you know what Alpha is?

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by illorion


    i was hoping that this game would be kinda like eve except avatar based and the quests wouldnt be horribly boring. However after reading all the dev crap i realize that it wont be what i was hoping for. SWG except with better combat and customization. However it looks like its gonna be one of those linear hand holding games

     

    I'm confused, why would it be anything but an online version of KOTOR?

    It is sounding like that is exactly what they are delivering...  Which if you are a fan of KOTOR this will be a fun game for sure.

    The way its being described to us sounds like KOTOR where everyone in your party is a real person rather than an NPC, which to me sounds interesting enough to warrent giving it a try.

     

     

    It does sound like a massive online version of KOTOR.

    Normally, I don't like quest driven games like what you do in WoW or WAR. Run around solo, with a huge list of stupid crappy things to do. Go here and give this guy that, and bring me 10 spider legs, and go kill 20 Krakens, and then come back and I'll give you boots of crappiness, and tell you to go do some more errands for me. Bleh!

    But, KOTOR was fun, and if it's that much fun, PLUS you can do the quests in groups I might like it.

     

     

    When I think of KOTOR, I always remember how it felt like there was freedom and choice, like you could make a difference, even though I knew full well that I was being shoved down a very narrow path.  KOTOR Online will be great.

    Hopefully they'll release more information soon on grouping and such, but I did notice that they said "most" of the game "can" be done solo.  Not all of it, and it doesn't HAVE to be done.  And they've specifically mentioned that during quest lines that are specific for your class, there will be big benefits to having other classes there with you.

    That's how I like to play: Solo when I only have a little time and can't commit to a group, and groups when its needed or just when I have time and friends available.

  • ToxiliumToxilium Member UncommonPosts: 905
    Originally posted by Moirae


    Oh come on, seriously. One of the best game companies in the world is making this game and everyone is flipping out over nothing.

     

    Exactly, the original point of this thread has been derailed into a ragefest of EVE bashing and putting down of opinons.

    image

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,937
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Ginaz


    Oh, I get it.  However, like always, the "swg vets" think they're more important than what they really are.  I highly doubt disgruntled vets had very much to do with the decision to make a new Star Wars mmo.  And when you say "most of us have written TOR off already" I hope you mean the disgruntled swg, pre-cu4TW types because theres many more people that are keenly interested and excited for this game.
    Its completely unreasonable to write this game off this early just because its not your precious pre-cu sandbox.  No one knows what its going to be like yet and anyone that says they do is talking out of their ass.



     

    Your doubt just goes to show how little you actually know about how this title came about. Might want to check out the history of this game a bit more, and in particular the actual Bioware forums.

    SWG vets are pissed because after our last game was RUIED in the persuit of the wow-crowd, when we finally got the announcement that the game we'd begged for was being made...it too was being targeted at the wow-crowd.

    And now, these wow-kiddies have the NERVE to to tell us we don't have the right to be pissed, and to GTFO.

    And yeah, it IS reasonable to write the game off this early, because we know what kind of game it will NOT be...one with depth, and more to do than follow rails.

    And so I leave you all who are "keenly excited" about this game....you're the people who will play it...for 3 months tops before moving onto the next game that you're "keenly excited" for.

     



     

    I don't see that as the case at all. They never said that they were making a game that swg players begged for. All they said was that it was a Star Wars game and that it was in the style of KOTOR.

    It's just that players ran away with their imaginations and started infering things that were never there.

    Perhaps I was not clear enough, or people are just too excited to have a chance to twist my words.

     

    We nagged Bioware for YEARS to make a KOTOR based MMORPG. I never SAID that they told ANYONE that they were making the specific game that we were asking for, as far as game type and mechanics.

    But if any of you anti-SWG-vet people would take two fucking seconds to review the Bioware forums, and some of the statements that followed the initial announcement of swtor (you know...the ones where they explain WHY they are making an MMORPG instead of KOTOR3) you can plainly see with your own fucking eyes that if it were not for us nagging them DAILY for an MMORPG, they wouldn't be making one at all....they'd be working on or already have released KOTOR3.

    The SHIT of it is, instead of listening to us, instead of making a game with depth and substance, they are making a glorified co-op game on rails.

    So fuck it. Fuck Bioware, Lucas Arts, the kiddies who don't think that we have any right to be bitter about Bioware chasing the wow-carrot, and especially those who don't even bother to know what they are talking about before they open their mouths.

     

    I'll chalk it up to not being clear enough or specific enough for the discussion at hand.

    As far as to whether or not they would have done KOTRO 3 instead of an mmo, who can really say. Maybe they were planning/discussing it and the fan response is what sealed the deal.

    However, that said, it is debatable whether or not the game they are making has or does not have substance and depth. It might not be the most free/sandbox game out there but there are ways to add depth. It is my thought (though I don't know if they will be able to pull it off) that the story and how the players participate in that story will be what gives it depth and substance.

    But as no one has played it, that remains to be seen.

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  • Lord_IxiganLord_Ixigan Member Posts: 548

    The funny thing is that myself and others have explained to the raged-out SWG "vets" why they're being silly and they just ignore it.

    I'll say it again so maybe it'll sink in. You guys nagged BIOWARE who was bought by EA to make a SANDBOX MMO. I capitalized the important words there. If you take just, BIOWARE, EA, SANDBOX and MMO you have an assortment of words that have never and will never be used in the same sentence.

    Bioware has only ever made RPG's with branching, but linear, storylines. As in you go from point A, to point B, to point C and so on, the path to get there and what happens is just different.

    EA already had the chance to make a more open ended MMO with Warhammer, they chose not to.

    EA is a company that will not (almost 99% of the time) think outside of the box. They would rather work with established formulas and recycle them until someone comes up with something new. Open-ended sandbox worlds don't use a formula, you figure it the hell out.

    You guys CLEARLY weren't thinking at ALL when you started on this whole crusade. You were barking up the wrong tree from the start then got pissed off at the tree when you found out. Pull your heads out of your asses and stop whining.

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786

    I'm all for a great sandbox game, but at least i'm smart enough to realize that all games won't be this way.  Most people are just fine with the 'themepark', and that's who the large developers are aiming for.

    Personally, I like both types of games.  I fully plan on ordering this game, it is damn near exactly what I was hoping for.  Partly because I knew better than to hope for anything else from this developer.  I'm not worried about EA, Bioware is still running as a seperate entity.  I've seen what Bioware can do, and they've always impressed me in the past, so there's no reason to think they won't pull it off again.

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by calmness

    Originally posted by madeux


    I'm all for a great sandbox game, but at least i'm smart enough to realize that all games won't be this way.  Most people are just fine with the 'themepark', and that's who the large developers are aiming for.
    Personally, I like both types of games.  I fully plan on ordering this game, it is damn near exactly what I was hoping for.  Partly because I knew better than to hope for anything else from this developer.  I'm not worried about EA, Bioware is still running as a seperate entity.  I've seen what Bioware can do, and they've always impressed me in the past, so there's no reason to think they won't pull it off again.



     

    You seem to think that people who raise objections to what has so far been revealed about this game do so because it seems like it's going to be a KOTOR-style limited themepark online rather than a SWG-style sandbox.

    That's not the case for many people.

    Some of us don't mind it being a KOTOR-style online limited themepark - what we are worried about is that it's going to be a bad online limited themepark.

    You've got to let your 'all SWG vets want ToR to be SWG' paranoia go.

     

    If my statement doesn't apply to you, then it wasn't directed at you.  Get over yourself.

  • naraku209naraku209 Member Posts: 226
    Originally posted by calmness

    Originally posted by madeux


    I'm all for a great sandbox game, but at least i'm smart enough to realize that all games won't be this way.  Most people are just fine with the 'themepark', and that's who the large developers are aiming for.
    Personally, I like both types of games.  I fully plan on ordering this game, it is damn near exactly what I was hoping for.  Partly because I knew better than to hope for anything else from this developer.  I'm not worried about EA, Bioware is still running as a seperate entity.  I've seen what Bioware can do, and they've always impressed me in the past, so there's no reason to think they won't pull it off again.



     

    You seem to think that people who raise objections to what has so far been revealed about this game do so because it seems like it's going to be a KOTOR-style limited themepark online rather than a SWG-style sandbox.

    That's not the case for many people.

    Some of us don't mind it being a KOTOR-style online limited themepark - what we are worried about is that it's going to be a bad online limited themepark.

    You've got to let your 'all SWG vets want ToR to be SWG' paranoia go.

     

     

    Indeed, People are wanting and are expecting ToR to be SWG, and it won't and that is not what they want so get over it, ToR will be amazing, it probably not be like kotor  either. it will be something completely different.

    image

  • Lord_IxiganLord_Ixigan Member Posts: 548
    Originally posted by calmness


     <Mod Edit>



     

    I'm not being defensive here, I'm asking a legitimate question: How are you coming to the conclusion that TOR will be bad?

    I'm one of the few people out there that can usually size up things pretty accurately. I can't even tell if TOR is going to be average, let alone good or bad. There isn't enough information to make such a judgement call at this time. All we have are 'this is' and 'we want' or 'that will be' supositional and vague statements from the devs and speculation from the fans.

    We know it will be "story oriented". That could mean almost anything. Moral choices and alignment for each character are included with this. Again, we have no idea what the hell that means.

    There will be companion characters. Alright, cool, I think it's a bad idea, but I have no idea if it's good or bad because I have no idea what it actually means. I have theories, but zero facts, so I can't say one way or the other and have it be fact.

    So far the only facts we have are the names of three classes, some bits of storyline and some ability info - that's it. That's not enough information to judge how the game might be in any solid basis. Meaning all you guys have are inuendo and suppositions of your own that may or may not turn out to be fact and you're getting all huffy over them. Translation: You're getting mad over what could be nothing, eg a complete waste of effort.

    I have no idea how the game will be. I don't really care, if it's good then I'll have something to play, if not then I'm not personally adversly affected. No one can say with any certainty how the game will be, there is not enough information out there. The game is still in Alpha and you can't even sign up for beta yet. Stop getting all worked up over baseless assumptions.

    -If- Bioware releases factual information, not vague statements, that is a genuinely bad idea then feel free. So far they have released pretty generic facts. Class info on three of the supposed eight classes.....hardly indicators of the game at large.

  • ManSh00terManSh00ter Member Posts: 3

    If Bioware were smart about it, and it doesn't feel like they are going down that road, they'd combine awesome storytelling with, yes, sandbox gameplay. You can have both, big surprise there.

    But if they go down the themepark alley, then TOR is practically doomed. It has nothing to do with quality. MMO's can thrive on two things - social hype, the "everyone plays it!" mentality, which only a few games achieve by the virtue of sheer chance, and replayability.

    And nothing beats a sandbox when it comes to replayability. The problem with sandbox designs is that usually they require players to get involved in some way in order to create content for themselves - hence the term. You get the sand, you've got to build your own castles.

    This is something most gamers are not willing to do.

    But, as I said, you can have both. You can have a sandbox where you are not constantly guided along on pre-scripted tracks, boxed in by a rigid class system or forced to play in a world bounded by artificial, immersion-breaking limitations; AND have a deep, meaningful storyline to enjoy.

    Do I hope for this in TOR? Yes... but its a cynical type of hope. All the information they released so far points to the same old rehashed-to-death themepark style MMO with Star Wars flavor. If it turns out as such, it will have a great reception, and pretty much simmer down to a gentle and barely visible spark next to the still roaring inferno of WoW. Because WoW sucks up all the social hype. And WoW does not do that because its somehow a mega-brilliant game, but because it was in the right place at the right time.

    All the developers that are trying to take a piece of that pie simply do not realize that the result can NOT be repeated by making a "better" product of the same type. The sooner they give up on that and start trying to actually be original in their game design, the better.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan

    Originally posted by calmness

    <Mod Edit>



     

    I'm not being defensive here, I'm asking a legitimate question: How are you coming to the conclusion that TOR will be bad?

    I'm one of the few people out there that can usually size up things pretty accurately. I can't even tell if TOR is going to be average, let alone good or bad. There isn't enough information to make such a judgement call at this time. All we have are 'this is' and 'we want' or 'that will be' supositional and vague statements from the devs and speculation from the fans.

    We know it will be "story oriented". That could mean almost anything. Moral choices and alignment for each character are included with this. Again, we have no idea what the hell that means.

    There will be companion characters. Alright, cool, I think it's a bad idea, but I have no idea if it's good or bad because I have no idea what it actually means. I have theories, but zero facts, so I can't say one way or the other and have it be fact.

    So far the only facts we have are the names of three classes, some bits of storyline and some ability info - that's it. That's not enough information to judge how the game might be in any solid basis. Meaning all you guys have are inuendo and suppositions of your own that may or may not turn out to be fact and you're getting all huffy over them. Translation: You're getting mad over what could be nothing, eg a complete waste of effort.

    I have no idea how the game will be. I don't really care, if it's good then I'll have something to play, if not then I'm not personally adversly affected. No one can say with any certainty how the game will be, there is not enough information out there. The game is still in Alpha and you can't even sign up for beta yet. Stop getting all worked up over baseless assumptions.

    -If- Bioware releases factual information, not vague statements, that is a genuinely bad idea then feel free. So far they have released pretty generic facts. Class info on three of the supposed eight classes.....hardly indicators of the game at large.

    You're my new hero. I've been saying this exact thing for weeks but not nearly as well as you just did. You hit the nail on the head. Will it sink in with the haters? Probably not. Because they're determined to slam and to hate whether its based on facts or not.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,389
    Originally posted by maximot

    <Mod Edit>

     

    I see calmness (or lack of) is back with an alt. xD

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • krityckrityc Member UncommonPosts: 175
    Originally posted by illorion


    i was hoping that this game would be kinda like eve except avatar based and the quests wouldnt be horribly boring. However after reading all the dev crap i realize that it wont be what i was hoping for. SWG except with better combat and customization. However it looks like its gonna be one of those linear hand holding games

     

    Bring examples of "dev crap" if you want legitimate responses, otherwise expect to get flammed by bashing a game with such a huge fan base.

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  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by calmness

    Originally posted by naraku209

    Originally posted by calmness




     
    You seem to think that people who raise objections to what has so far been revealed about this game do so because it seems like it's going to be a KOTOR-style limited themepark online rather than a SWG-style sandbox.
    That's not the case for many people.
    Some of us don't mind it being a KOTOR-style online limited themepark - what we are worried about is that it's going to be a bad online limited themepark.
    You've got to let your 'all SWG vets want ToR to be SWG' paranoia go.
     

     

    Indeed, People are wanting and are expecting ToR to be SWG, and it won't and that is not what they want so get over it, ToR will be amazing, it probably not be like kotor  either. it will be something completely different.



     

    No, I said the precise - precise! - opposite of that.

    Most SWG Vets don't care that ToR is not going to be SWG 2.

    We care that, as mature gamers, we're going to be asked to pay for and then rent what seems to be shaping up to be a bad limited themepark game. If it was going to be a good themepark game, we wouldn't mind. Bad game = bad. Get it? And here, in these discussion forums, we are allowed to express that view. Deal with it.

     

    It's true, he's allowed to express his view, regardless of how ignorant and uninformed it is.  If he wants to preach about the doom of a game based on very, very limited information, then he certainly can do that.

    He just needs to realize that we're allowed to express our opinions that his views are misinformed and a waste of our time.

     

  • singsofdeathsingsofdeath Member UncommonPosts: 1,812
    Originally posted by maximot

    <Mod Edit>

    Curious to see you contradict yourself within the 6 posts you made so far. Let's see how many more you come up with in your various incarnations, eh?

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by maximot

    Originally posted by madeux

    Originally posted by calmness

    Originally posted by naraku209

    Indeed, People are wanting and are expecting ToR to be SWG, and it won't and that is not what they want so get over it, ToR will be amazing, it probably not be like kotor  either. it will be something completely different.



     

    No, I said the precise - precise! - opposite of that.

    Most SWG Vets don't care that ToR is not going to be SWG 2.

    We care that, as mature gamers, we're going to be asked to pay for and then rent what seems to be shaping up to be a bad limited themepark game. If it was going to be a good themepark game, we wouldn't mind. Bad game = bad. Get it? And here, in these discussion forums, we are allowed to express that view. Deal with it.

     

    It's true, he's allowed to express his view, regardless of how ignorant and uninformed it is.  If he wants to preach about the doom of a game based on very, very limited information, then he certainly can do that.

    He just needs to realize that we're allowed to express our opinions that his views are misinformed and a waste of our time.

     

    By the same token, his view might be that you're a pompous, humourless discussion-killing little forum flamer, mindlessly abusing any poster whio doesn't agree with you as you shill for a game that is going to be sub-par.

    And having read your post, I would agree with him.

    :lol:

     

    Is that what passes for an insult around here?  I'm bored, so let us look more closely at this post.

    Pompous?  Absoutely. 

    Humourless? I have an excellent, albeit evil, sense of humor.

    Discusission-killing: Clearly I was keeping the discussion going.

    Little: To be honest, I could use to lose a few pounds.

    Forum-Flamer: I speak my mind, and if offends a couple of asshats, oh well.

    Mindlessly Abusing:  I do nothing mindlessly, and I hardly see  one little post as abuse.

    A game that is going to be sub-par:  Your'e obviously just as ignorant as the others, making baseless accusations about a game you know nothing about.

    You agree with him:  You two should get together and hold hands while skipping in the park to celebrate.

  • law573law573 Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Originally posted by illorion


    i was hoping that this game would be kinda like eve except avatar based and the quests wouldnt be horribly boring. However after reading all the dev crap i realize that it wont be what i was hoping for. SWG except with better combat and customization. However it looks like its gonna be one of those linear hand holding games



     

    Dear god I hope it's NOTHING like EVE. I'd take a poorly done WoW clone over something like EVE Online.

    You are playing a video game. By definition that means you are not hardcore.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by law573

    Originally posted by illorion


    i was hoping that this game would be kinda like eve except avatar based and the quests wouldnt be horribly boring. However after reading all the dev crap i realize that it wont be what i was hoping for. SWG except with better combat and customization. However it looks like its gonna be one of those linear hand holding games



     

    Dear god I hope it's NOTHING like EVE. I'd take a poorly done WoW clone over something like EVE Online.



     

    its surprising how many people with single digit IQ's would agree with you...

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Moirae

    Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan

    Originally posted by calmness

    <Mod Edit>



     

    I'm not being defensive here, I'm asking a legitimate question: How are you coming to the conclusion that TOR will be bad?

    I'm one of the few people out there that can usually size up things pretty accurately. I can't even tell if TOR is going to be average, let alone good or bad. There isn't enough information to make such a judgement call at this time. All we have are 'this is' and 'we want' or 'that will be' supositional and vague statements from the devs and speculation from the fans.

    We know it will be "story oriented". That could mean almost anything. Moral choices and alignment for each character are included with this. Again, we have no idea what the hell that means.

    There will be companion characters. Alright, cool, I think it's a bad idea, but I have no idea if it's good or bad because I have no idea what it actually means. I have theories, but zero facts, so I can't say one way or the other and have it be fact.

    So far the only facts we have are the names of three classes, some bits of storyline and some ability info - that's it. That's not enough information to judge how the game might be in any solid basis. Meaning all you guys have are inuendo and suppositions of your own that may or may not turn out to be fact and you're getting all huffy over them. Translation: You're getting mad over what could be nothing, eg a complete waste of effort.

    I have no idea how the game will be. I don't really care, if it's good then I'll have something to play, if not then I'm not personally adversly affected. No one can say with any certainty how the game will be, there is not enough information out there. The game is still in Alpha and you can't even sign up for beta yet. Stop getting all worked up over baseless assumptions.

    -If- Bioware releases factual information, not vague statements, that is a genuinely bad idea then feel free. So far they have released pretty generic facts. Class info on three of the supposed eight classes.....hardly indicators of the game at large.

    You're my new hero. I've been saying this exact thing for weeks but not nearly as well as you just did. You hit the nail on the head. Will it sink in with the haters? Probably not. Because they're determined to slam and to hate whether its based on facts or not.

     

    Yep.. all us doubters stand corrected.. How dare us jump to a conclusion based on what info we have..   Granted I may not have actually tasted the new sandwich by Bioware.. But since two of the incredients are anchovy and peanut butter.. How dare I jump to the conclusion that it would suck..

    The fact is that gaming companies deliberiately release vaque info to generate hype and speculation.. IF Bioware wants to play that game they have to suffer the negatives as well.. :)  

  • Linc01Linc01 Member Posts: 8

    Simple, find another game if you think its gonna suck. No one cares if your here or not, TOR will be the greatest mmo to ever hit the net, you can count on that!

  • RevthoughtRevthought Member Posts: 120
    Originally posted by ManSh00ter


    If Bioware were smart about it, and it doesn't feel like they are going down that road, they'd combine awesome storytelling with, yes, sandbox gameplay. You can have both, big surprise there.
    But if they go down the themepark alley, then TOR is practically doomed. It has nothing to do with quality. MMO's can thrive on two things - social hype, the "everyone plays it!" mentality, which only a few games achieve by the virtue of sheer chance, and replayability.
    And nothing beats a sandbox when it comes to replayability. The problem with sandbox designs is that usually they require players to get involved in some way in order to create content for themselves - hence the term. You get the sand, you've got to build your own castles.
    This is something most gamers are not willing to do.
    But, as I said, you can have both. You can have a sandbox where you are not constantly guided along on pre-scripted tracks, boxed in by a rigid class system or forced to play in a world bounded by artificial, immersion-breaking limitations; AND have a deep, meaningful storyline to enjoy.
    Do I hope for this in TOR? Yes... but its a cynical type of hope. All the information they released so far points to the same old rehashed-to-death themepark style MMO with Star Wars flavor. If it turns out as such, it will have a great reception, and pretty much simmer down to a gentle and barely visible spark next to the still roaring inferno of WoW. Because WoW sucks up all the social hype. And WoW does not do that because its somehow a mega-brilliant game, but because it was in the right place at the right time.
    All the developers that are trying to take a piece of that pie simply do not realize that the result can NOT be repeated by making a "better" product of the same type. The sooner they give up on that and start trying to actually be original in their game design, the better.

    Sorry, but...

    This guy wins this thread.

     

    /thread

  • RevthoughtRevthought Member Posts: 120
    Originally posted by law573

    Originally posted by illorion


    i was hoping that this game would be kinda like eve except avatar based and the quests wouldnt be horribly boring. However after reading all the dev crap i realize that it wont be what i was hoping for. SWG except with better combat and customization. However it looks like its gonna be one of those linear hand holding games



     

    Dear god I hope it's NOTHING like EVE. I'd take a poorly done WoW clone over something like EVE Online.

     

    There is the this great idiomatic expression in the English language that goes something like....

     

    "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

     

    I think that this expression applies to this, above quoted, case.

     

    -R

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by ManSh00ter


    If Bioware were smart about it, and it doesn't feel like they are going down that road, they'd combine awesome storytelling with, yes, sandbox gameplay. You can have both, big surprise there.
    But if they go down the themepark alley, then TOR is practically doomed. It has nothing to do with quality. MMO's can thrive on two things - social hype, the "everyone plays it!" mentality, which only a few games achieve by the virtue of sheer chance, and replayability.
    And nothing beats a sandbox when it comes to replayability. The problem with sandbox designs is that usually they require players to get involved in some way in order to create content for themselves - hence the term. You get the sand, you've got to build your own castles.
    This is something most gamers are not willing to do.
    But, as I said, you can have both. You can have a sandbox where you are not constantly guided along on pre-scripted tracks, boxed in by a rigid class system or forced to play in a world bounded by artificial, immersion-breaking limitations; AND have a deep, meaningful storyline to enjoy.
    Do I hope for this in TOR? Yes... but its a cynical type of hope. All the information they released so far points to the same old rehashed-to-death themepark style MMO with Star Wars flavor. If it turns out as such, it will have a great reception, and pretty much simmer down to a gentle and barely visible spark next to the still roaring inferno of WoW. Because WoW sucks up all the social hype. And WoW does not do that because its somehow a mega-brilliant game, but because it was in the right place at the right time.
    All the developers that are trying to take a piece of that pie simply do not realize that the result can NOT be repeated by making a "better" product of the same type. The sooner they give up on that and start trying to actually be original in their game design, the better.

     

    good post there.. /clap

    I would love to find a good sandbox game.  I had hopes that SWG was going to be it, but that fell thru.. It didn't take long before all the errors, bugs and poor designs showed up..  The problem you have with a true sandbox is that the devs have to keep up with the everchanging world.. As with real life, sandboxes changes day after day, and the SWG devs did not have the grey matter to handle it.. Sandboxes require a shit load of manpower to keep it running.. In addition to keeping up with changes in the current game, sandboxes need add on changes as well..  This means adding new content, trades items, personal belongs and maybe even geographical changes.. Without change, any sandbox will become boring in time..

    I seriously doubt you'll ever find a true sandbox game anytime soon.. It just cost too much to design and upkeep..

  • oakthornnoakthornn Member UncommonPosts: 863
    Originally posted by Phry


     just think of it as one of those single player rpg games, its mostly about storyline with some online content.

     

    That's what I don't like about TOR.. Bioware claims its a mmorpg, but all I see is your typical platform structured single player rpg with "some" online content thrown in just to make the people pay 15 dollars a month.. That's not an MMORPG..

    I was hoping TOR would be a real MMORPG where thousands of people interact with one another within the game world.

    I enjoy quests and a nice storyline, but If I wanted to play a structured story driven RPG, I sure as heck wouldn't pay 15 dollars a month to do so.  I don't mind TOR being very story driven and quest oriented, but some of the things I've heard about the actual gameplay causes me to raise my eyebrow in worry. Such as, the majority of the game can be completed solo, but some of the quests require a "few" friends to complete.. Now, I don't know what few means, but I surely hope this isn't going to be like a diablo mmog where u can do everything by yourself but If u wanna hang out with friends, it's your choice but not necessary. To me and many veteran MMORPGamers that's not what we call a true MMO..

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on TOR, in fact, I hope it will be a masterpiece. And I wish it will become the savior of the MMO genre. But, as of now the game sounds like a 90% single player RPG with very few EQ, WoW, DAOC, etc MMO features. That's not enough to make me pay to play..  Hope I'm wrong.

    Rallithon Oakthornn
    (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)

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