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How has VG strayed from its "original" scope?

GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,813

I've been playing VG on and off for about a year now. Fun game, a bit grindy perhaps at times, but overall best MMO experience for me at this point.

 

But I keep reading posts of old-time followers complaining about how much the game was dumbed down/ modified for release, in effect scrapping its original "revolutionary" features.

 

So what where those original "revolutionary" features that made it stand out from the rest of the MMO genre?

Comments

  • ShowTheWorldShowTheWorld Member Posts: 5

    I played Vanguard on and off since release. I really don't know what these people are talking about. The features that were describes as revoltionary were delivered imo. Flying mounts, Driveable boats etc. I think what they are really talking about is playerbase, they hoped it would be the MMO everyone would play for years, but it just didn't happen. I cancelled my sub around 4 months ago and don't plan to go back, but it really was an awesome game. Raiding in VG was probably the best I have ever seen, it eventually got dumbed down slightly, but for the most part it was always challenging and required alot of cooperation and problem solving to figure out each encounter. I eventually just got bored with it, when they finally released new content it just wasn't good enough to spark my interest. Had they had a larger dev team, and released content and patched more frequently, I would probably still be playing.

  • morpinmorpin Member Posts: 360

    I think the biggest change from the original vision is travel.  Back in the day it was a really big deal to travel from one continent to another.  At first they just had boats which were unreliable.  Then they installed dock master/teleporters that would enable you to travel from Kahl to Tawar Galan then to NT.  Then they developed the riftways which really trivialized travelling around.  About the same time they introduced rentable mounts at every riftway.

    Was this change bad?  It certainly kiiled immersion for a lot of people.  I think that a majority of the people favor the change.  The population is small and to get in a group you need fast travel.  I can remember the first few months, I would be in Qualia and a friend wanted me to group in TK.  It might take me an hour to run there before I could hook up with him.

     

     

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  • heremypetheremypet Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 528

    I just started playing recently but 2 issues I have with this game are actually changes that were put in after release.

    Fast Travel.  I never liked the idea of every player being able to teleport to almost any part of the world instantly.  Not only that but any level 1 can rent a flying mount for 25c and just skip over scores of content.  Turns out neither of these "features" were in the game at release, but apparently most people play MMOs like it's their job or something, and the old system of travel was too inefficient and inconvenient, boo-hoo.

    Faction.  This I could hardly believe when I found out.  Even before I started playing VG I read up on the game.  I read about factions and how some races are hostile towards each other, meaning if you were a Dark Elf and wanted to visit the High Elf city, you had to improve your faction standing with them first or they would kill you on sight.  This sounded awesome, but aparently what I read was old news because as of right now no one is hostile towards anyone, no one has to do squat to become welcome in foreign lands, and any dark elf can hop skip and jump all through any foreign home city.

    Other than that VG is nice, has top notch graphics and is huge and beautiful.  If you're any kind of explorer you'll certainly love it.  If the fast travel and faction changes were changed back to the original design I think it would just be amazing, but like I said, unfortunately, most ppl play MMOs like it's their job so they would whine that it's too inconvenient.

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  • TruethTrueth Member Posts: 287

    It really is a huge list, probably more than I listed, but this is my quck list..

     

    • Death penalty mostly removed
    • KOS faction removed
    • Equipment Expertise removed
    • Weight/encumbrance removed
    • adventure XP boosted several times
    • craft xp boosted several times
    • craft continental faction boosted
    • Riftways added all over
    • rentable mount cost reduced several times

     

    • swamp gear drop rate boosted
    • Monsters like HEG drops are like vending machines instead just getting what drops
    • 'epic' galleons crafted within 24hours of release
    • quested and crafted gear level requirments reduced
    • forced gear for tanks (dk, pali, war) no more choices to equip as desired
    • introductin of shandrels makes harvesting almost pointless
    • increased drop rate of T6 harvest drops
    • item decon no longer related to craft level

     

    And probably more. At one point silius posted a poll to see if anyone was interested in a 'hardcore/original vision' server. It went to 26 page of people with a /signed. There was a huge demand. Then Silius posted that he made a mistake and they couldn't do an original vision server. They locked the thread and he ever spoke of it again. Vanguard used to be challenging and fun.

    Now it seems like a hybrid EQII/WoW. No idently, trying to be everything and ultimately failing.

     

    He edited it so you cant' see what he originally posted as the hardcore ruleset, but you CAN see the thread title and all the /sign.

  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,813

    This is a nice list Trueth...wonder how VG would feel if all those things were kept as planned...

     

    I particularly dislike the riftways, and the removal of Equipment Expertise. That would have given significantly more depth to the gameplay.

  • objeffobjeff Member UncommonPosts: 97
    Originally posted by Galadourn


    This is a nice list Trueth...wonder how VG would feel if all those things were kept as planned...
     
    I particularly dislike the riftways, and the removal of Equipment Expertise. That would have given significantly more depth to the gameplay.

     

    I agree, the rift ways do take away from the travel. However, playing a game long term the constant traveling can get tiresome. I think a quest to unlock each rift way would be good. :)

  • TruethTrueth Member Posts: 287

    On Rifts: That is a decent point. In fact, it used to be that something like that existed. But like Equipment Expertise, it was deemed 'too difficult'. A long time ago, in a game that was fun and challenging to play - Before a rift was available for use you had to unlock it. Unlocking was done by physically visiting the riftway and clcking it. From that point on the riftway was always available.

     

    That might not seem like a big deal, but was cool in that it at least forced players to travel overland at least once before unlocking the magical world of riftways. So ultimately Silius and his staff did two things:

    1. Made riftways available to everyone automatically with some modest level requirements
    2. Added a lot more rifts through out the entire VG world.

    Some will argue that traveling for hours in a game  is no fun. To them I say - Try playing the game. There is no place in all of Vanguard that would require hours of travel to reach without a rift. 20 to 4o minutes? Yes.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by morpin


    I think the biggest change from the original vision is travel.  Back in the day it was a really big deal to travel from one continent to another.  At first they just had boats which were unreliable.  Then they installed dock master/teleporters that would enable you to travel from Kahl to Tawar Galan then to NT.  Then they developed the riftways which really trivialized travelling around.  About the same time they introduced rentable mounts at every riftway.
    Was this change bad?  It certainly kiiled immersion for a lot of people.  I think that a majority of the people favor the change.  The population is small and to get in a group you need fast travel.  I can remember the first few months, I would be in Qualia and a friend wanted me to group in TK.  It might take me an hour to run there before I could hook up with him.
     
     

     

    It's a shame people think that way. I was thinking last night how the riftways make the game actually playable. The world is so large that had there not been riftways it just wouldn't be worth it. There is still huge travel but I can actually play the game.

    Otherwise I would be spending my whole time just traveling. I'd never have time to play the game.

    There is a difference between trivializing the world and just zipping anywhere you would like to go. There is also the other side of the coin where you know it will take you an hour to get to the other continent. In some ways that is neat but in other ways it is the type of thing that most people don't want to do. A happy medium needs to be found.

    It seems to me that there was a group of very hardcore players who really wanted this. Had the game actually launched in decent shape I wonder if there would have been enough of them to support the game.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by objeff

    Originally posted by Galadourn


    This is a nice list Trueth...wonder how VG would feel if all those things were kept as planned...
     
    I particularly dislike the riftways, and the removal of Equipment Expertise. That would have given significantly more depth to the gameplay.

     

    I agree, the rift ways do take away from the travel. However, playing a game long term the constant traveling can get tiresome. I think a quest to unlock each rift way would be good. :)

     

    Ah... that is a good idea.

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  • TruethTrueth Member Posts: 287
    Originally posted by Sovrath

     

     I was thinking last night how the riftways make the game actually playable.  .... Otherwise I would be spending my whole time just traveling. I'd never have time to play the game.

    Told ya....

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by Trueth

    Originally posted by Sovrath

     

     I was thinking last night how the riftways make the game actually playable.  .... Otherwise I would be spending my whole time just traveling. I'd never have time to play the game.

    Told ya....

     

    Not at all.

     

    Originally posted by Trueth

    Some will argue that traveling for hours in a game is no fun. To them I say - Try playing the game. There is no place in all of Vanguard that would require hours of travel to reach without a rift. 20 to 4o minutes? Yes.

    You said that one should try it first.  I don't play Vanguard for hours per day. I play it a little at a time. So if, according to your post, traveling woudl be 20-40 minutes (a fair assessment) that would leave me with 10 to 20 minutes to play on some days.

    That makes the game unplayable for me. I like the idea of the unlockable riftways and that I would have kept. But the original concept of huge traveling, though appealing on some levels, is one of the reasons that Vanguard was never on my list of games to play. Along with forced grouping.

    However that is not the game that we have today. Because of this and becuase I can actually play it, I have a subscription.

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  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Member UncommonPosts: 809

    The reason I didn't try this game out was the rifts when the free trial came. I understand if the population is low they most likey are needed but I'm looking for a game that has a feel of community based on location due to travel. You really don't get that feeling with teleporters all over the place. The second reason and most likey the main reason is SONY. I just don't trust them anymore after the NGE.

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  • TeimanTeiman Member Posts: 1,319

     Vanguard is a good game, but some bad design decisions make it hard for the players. Mosly the ridiculous enormeusly size of everything, even cities, and the grindy nature of some quest. 

    I don't think the changed listed here make the game worst, It may help some people, but It don't fix the main problems of the game:  gigantism and grinding. 

    Other than that, I hope more people join the game, I may even comeback to my sorcer :-)

    Oh.. the chaos volley unnerfed, of course.  I want to be able to make exponential damage.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by Zeppelin4


    The reason I didn't try this game out was the rifts when the free trial came. I understand if the population is low they most likey are needed but I'm looking for a game that has a feel of community based on location due to travel. You really don't get that feeling with teleporters all over the place. The second reason and most likey the main reason is SONY. I just don't trust them anymore after the NGE.

     

    Well, if one part of the population is at one place and there is hardly anyone in another then chances are there is not going to be much community in the area that has the lower population.

    I find one of the positive things about Vanguard is that they mix high and low lvl areas so that there are highler lvl players going through lower lvl towns in order to get to where they need to go.

    Traveling is still significant in Vanguard. Last night someone pm'ed me and asked me if I wanted to kill the cyclops. Which of course I had no idea what it was. I think he was surprised but I'm not sure why. In any case, I looked at the clock and the first thing I aksed was "will it take long? Where is it".

    In most any game I can say "sure, I can zip over and help you". But in Vanguard it takes a bit of time to get anywhere. To me this is a good thing and one of the reasons I am playing it.

    Now, I'm not saying that the rifts should have been added over the original concept. I am saying that because of them, I have more time to do things in the game and that makes it more appealing to me.

    If they removed rifts and only had them in major cities then that would be fine as well. Or had few but spaced them out evenly over the land.

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    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
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