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Will you play a friendlier Final Fantasy MMO?

ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

We know a decent amount about the general direction Final Fantasy XIV is headed. It'll be very pretty, have a similar-yet-different job system and feature all the classic trappings we've come to expect from the series. Oh, and PlayOnline is going bye-bye, which is something to be happy about.

Specifically, we know that the developers are aiming to create an MMO that allows many more styles of play than Final Fantasy XI does, meaning solo players who prefer both short and long term sessions will find the game accessible this time around. Final Fantasy XI is of course notorious for being one of the hardest MMOs around, and it's earned that reputation. And while the game has seen its share of difficulty smoothing, it's nowhere near as inviting to new players as, well, just about every other MMO on the market, really.

So does the prospect of a friendlier, safer and assuredly more accessible Final Fantasy interest those of you who wouldn't touch its predecessor with a ten foot Gunsword? Will you be looking out for further information or simply ignoring Final Fantsy XIV while you wait for something else to grab your attention?

 

 

Source: www.massively.com/2009/06/21/the-daily-grind-will-you-play-a-friendlier-final-fantasy-mmo/#comments

 

 

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Comments

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587

    I've never been a fan of the FF series at all.  Doubt i will try the new one as the old one hardly grabbed my attention.  It's nice that they are attempting to change the gameplay to suit other styles, the old one was very unforgiving when i tried it.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • Carl132pCarl132p Member UncommonPosts: 538

    Ill be playing it assuming it comes to Xbox 360 which it looks like it will. Otherwise i won't be playing mmos anymore at all because the genre isn't worth the technology cost, not even almost.

  • Daedalus732Daedalus732 Member Posts: 589

    I honestly had no problem with Final Fantasy XI's playstyle. It was hard. It meant something when you leveled, particularly in the realm of crafting.

    That said, it was a grind in the worst possible way. It could be very hard to get a group, which was the only real way to level past about level 15, depending on your class.

    I would like for the new FF MMO to retain that difficulty without the insane grind. I think this effectively kept out the wankers and made for a great community while making the gameplay meaningful. That's what's missing in so many MMOs. That feeling of accomplishment and personal victory. You knew that not everyone could achieve what you achieved, either because they lacked the time or they lacked interpersonal skills.

    In short, I would happily play a "friendlier" FF MMO, provided they could retain the difficulty and sense of achievement from the first game.

  • KalafaxKalafax Member UncommonPosts: 591

    All they have to do is catch up with the times and update the game with WASD movement and controls and I'll play, I liked 11 but the basic controls were just horrid and I just couldnt play it for any length of time. If you are expecting to put a game in the PC world then you should fix the UI to be set up the way thats worked foreva

    Mess with the best, Die like the rest

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150
    Originally posted by Daedalus732


    I honestly had no problem with Final Fantasy XI's playstyle. It was hard. It meant something when you leveled, particularly in the realm of crafting.
    That said, it was a grind in the worst possible way. It could be very hard to get a group, which was the only real way to level past about level 15, depending on your class.
    I would like for the new FF MMO to retain that difficulty without the insane grind. I think this effectively kept out the wankers and made for a great community while making the gameplay meaningful. That's what's missing in so many MMOs. That feeling of accomplishment and personal victory. You knew that not everyone could achieve what you achieved, either because they lacked the time or they lacked interpersonal skills.
    In short, I would happily play a "friendlier" FF MMO, provided they could retain the difficulty and sense of achievement from the first game.

    I see alot of posts like this. I wish more people knew what they wanted, and would stop living in dream land.

    The insane grind you refer to is what made the difficulty. (btw it wasnt a grind to me, I loved every minute of ffxi). If you lessen the grind that you speak of, you lower the difficulty, Things become more accesabile to anyone, and it keep more "wankers." So how much do you want to lessen it?

    I just cant understand why more people cant see this. In a perfect world you could lower the grind and keep the same difficulty level. However the real world is not close to perfect. Its a video game people, theres only a few limited ways devs can make things challenging to someone who sits on their rear pushing buttons on a keyboard.  I always see people saying it can be done, but I have yet to see them provide a viable example of how to do it.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    I loved the jourmey to the end of FFXI. Grouping with people was insanely fun in this game. I hope in FFXIV they add some solo play but still keep grouping as the main focus. I do not wish for FFXIV to be just another clone of what is out there because of solo play. FFXI was a "good different" and I hope they keep it that way. 

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  • Carl132pCarl132p Member UncommonPosts: 538
    Originally posted by toddze

    Originally posted by Daedalus732


    I honestly had no problem with Final Fantasy XI's playstyle. It was hard. It meant something when you leveled, particularly in the realm of crafting.
    That said, it was a grind in the worst possible way. It could be very hard to get a group, which was the only real way to level past about level 15, depending on your class.
    I would like for the new FF MMO to retain that difficulty without the insane grind. I think this effectively kept out the wankers and made for a great community while making the gameplay meaningful. That's what's missing in so many MMOs. That feeling of accomplishment and personal victory. You knew that not everyone could achieve what you achieved, either because they lacked the time or they lacked interpersonal skills.
    In short, I would happily play a "friendlier" FF MMO, provided they could retain the difficulty and sense of achievement from the first game.

    I just cant understand why more people cant see this. In a perfect world you could lower the grind and keep the same difficulty level. However the real world is not close to perfect. Its a video game people, theres only a few limited ways devs can make things challenging to someone who sits on their rear pushing buttons on a keyboard.  I always see people saying it can be done, but I have yet to see them provide a viable example of how to do it.

    Developers essentially play god in their vidoegames. They can make ANYTHING happen they are only limited by the creativity. There is a way to make something difficult but not grindy, Will it be in this game? Unless its completely revolutionary, absolutely not.

  • MyskMysk Member Posts: 982

    FFO turned me off big time with its massive grind, and I've been losing respect for the Final Fantasy series for quite some time now.  Square is no longer a company that I associate with "great RPGs" and it hasn't been since FF 8.  That takes us back to 1999.  They know that their last great title was FF 7 (back from 1997 no less) and to this day they just keep regurgitating stuff from it.

    So really, I doubt it.  I don't expect much from it.  I don't expect much from Square in general.  If there's a free trial then I'll try that, but I do that with almost any MMO.  I'll most likely read a few reviews about it.  Put down money on it though?  That's unlikely.

  • Daedalus732Daedalus732 Member Posts: 589
    Originally posted by toddze

    The insane grind you refer to is what made the difficulty. (btw it wasnt a grind to me, I loved every minute of ffxi). If you lessen the grind that you speak of, you lower the difficulty, Things become more accesabile to anyone, and it keep more "wankers." So how much do you want to lessen it?

     

    The only difficult part about the grind was getting into a group. If you could do that, then it was pretty easy. If you could solve the problem of waiting around for hours for a group, then maybe I would agree, but no one should have to deal with that.

    Maintaining the difficulty of leveling and progressing could be handled in other ways. The only barrier to such a thing is the creativity of the developers.

  • seeyouspacec0wboyseeyouspacec0wboy Member UncommonPosts: 714
    Originally posted by Dalgor


    All they have to do is catch up with the times and update the game with WASD movement and controls and I'll play, I liked 11 but the basic controls were just horrid and I just couldnt play it for any length of time. If you are expecting to put a game in the PC world then you should fix the UI to be set up the way thats worked foreva

     

    FFXI has WASD movement. Just go into setting and switch to compact keyboard.

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150
    Originally posted by Carl132p





    Developers essentially play god in their vidoegames. They can make ANYTHING happen they are only limited by the creativity. There is a way to make something difficult but not grindy, Will it be in this game? Unless its completely revolutionary, absolutely not.

    So is this the common misconception that people have about a game which makes them excessively over optimistic about games?

    In a way yes they are "gods" in a sense they create a virtual world. Thats about it.  They are bound by reality though. Reality in technical limitations, and most importantly  reality that there is a very limited way of portraying their content to a user. Again thier is only a limited number of ways of making something difficult to a gamer who only pushes buttons on a keyboard.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • Carl132pCarl132p Member UncommonPosts: 538

    limits limits limits... says who? We aren't asking for machine taxing programs here taking the grind out could be as easy as having some mechanic we haven't ever thought of. Impossible in  a world where we control everything? Thats a joke right? Once again im not saying its happening here but you waving your limits around like you know everything are not helping anything and until you know everything you cant say never or impossible.

     

    When somebody does think of somethign thats never happened before are you just surprised or do you realize that when you thought it was impossible you were dead wrong?

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150
    Originally posted by Carl132p


    limits limits limits... says who? We aren't asking for machine taxing programs here taking the grind out could be as easy as having some mechanic we haven't ever thought of. Impossible in  a world where we control everything? Thats a joke right? Once again im not saying its happening here but you waving your limits around like you know everything are not helping anything and until you know everything you cant say never or impossible.
     
    When somebody does think of somethign thats never happened before are you just surprised or do you realize that when you thought it was impossible you were dead wrong?

     

    limits limits limits says game companies. If they want their product to reach a large populace they are bound. I dont know everything about programming but I know enough to know that limitations are real and a major obsticle. 

    When someone incorperates a brand new system, I will say that the technology has advanced one step further raising the bar allowing for more options. Were far from that.

    50 years from now who knows we may be playing games in a room with several halagraphic generators in the room portraying a 3d enviroment in that room, and the gamer stands on a pad with a special suit and the velocity of the gamers swing determins the damage done. Now that my friend moves the "limitation bar" drastically because it opens a whole new door to portray a varity of difficulty levels. 

    Limitations are real hide, from it all you like.  Advances are made through realizing that theres a problem, not hiding from them.

    EDIT: Lets look at the Wii back when we were playing the gold ole NES I am sure the though of motion sensing went through someones mind at nintendo. The technolgy was such that it was a limiting factor.  Motion sesning opens a ton of new doors. It really is a new fronteir. I am not a fan of it but none the less its the new thing. 

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • YauchyYauchy Member UncommonPosts: 298

     Really the game can do no wrong at the moment for me.  FFXI was my favorite MMO, even after playing WoW 4 years I still hold it to high esteem.  Making a varient FF mmo with player friendliness akin to new mmos, will have me playing from day one.  The one reason I did not play FFXI for more than short bursts at a time was that reason entirely:  Couldnt invest enough time to keep groups going, friends playing, or keep up in general.

    If FFXIV wasnt the player friendly game it is looking to be, theres no way I would be ensuring it so against the large back drop of good titles coming out.  Also being a fanboy does help :); but 5 yr+ dev time with an excellent developer such as Square, I think we all have little to worry about and alot to look forward to.

  • Proximo521Proximo521 Member UncommonPosts: 283
    Originally posted by Mysk


    FFO turned me off big time with its massive grind, and I've been losing respect for the Final Fantasy series for quite some time now.  Square is no longer a company that I associate with "great RPGs" and it hasn't been since FF 8.  That takes us back to 1999.  They know that their last great title was FF 7 (back from 1997 no less) and to this day they just keep regurgitating stuff from it.
    So really, I doubt it.  I don't expect much from it.  I don't expect much from Square in general.  If there's a free trial then I'll try that, but I do that with almost any MMO.  I'll most likely read a few reviews about it.  Put down money on it though?  That's unlikely.



     

    I thought Final Fantasy X was a great game. It was very well done and the combo of gameplay, graphics and story makes that game. Just as many before it Square has done a great job at sticking to what they do best...... Real RPG's. Once they went the MMO route, that seemed to turn everyone off. Some people believed if they created an MMO that the rest of the RPG's that they were great at making were going to suffer. I truly believe in the saying  "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder".

    You can definitely experience something and not like it. But how could you not try something and really give a valid opinion about a game? It is the same in the movie business, if everyone says that the movie sucked or they wouldnt see it because of a certain actor, director, etc..... How will you ever know? I have one perfect example. My buddy got a movie "Be kind Rewind". I thought at the time that Jack Black had been overdone and Mos Def's acting started to be very static role vs a dynamic role. My friends said just give it a shot... and Im glad i did. I was very Narrow minded about a movie that I believed had been the same crap that I had seen in the past. That gave me the idea that how can I really say I like or dislike it if I havent tried it? I cant. There are obvious things that you will never try. Such as eating crap! (example only)... But when it comes to art and a form of art. I have a hard time saying that I will not like something... If I hadnt experienced it then I would have to simply say "I dont know, I will have to check it out."

    Great quote “Where there is an open mind there will always be a frontier.”- Charles F. Kettering

    There is also this quote.....

    “I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.”- Harold T. Stone

    Things to live by!

    image

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by toddze

    Originally posted by Daedalus732


    I honestly had no problem with Final Fantasy XI's playstyle. It was hard. It meant something when you leveled, particularly in the realm of crafting.
    That said, it was a grind in the worst possible way. It could be very hard to get a group, which was the only real way to level past about level 15, depending on your class.
    I would like for the new FF MMO to retain that difficulty without the insane grind. I think this effectively kept out the wankers and made for a great community while making the gameplay meaningful. That's what's missing in so many MMOs. That feeling of accomplishment and personal victory. You knew that not everyone could achieve what you achieved, either because they lacked the time or they lacked interpersonal skills.
    In short, I would happily play a "friendlier" FF MMO, provided they could retain the difficulty and sense of achievement from the first game.

    I see alot of posts like this. I wish more people knew what they wanted, and would stop living in dream land.

    The insane grind you refer to is what made the difficulty. (btw it wasnt a grind to me, I loved every minute of ffxi). If you lessen the grind that you speak of, you lower the difficulty, Things become more accesabile to anyone, and it keep more "wankers." So how much do you want to lessen it?

    I just cant understand why more people cant see this. In a perfect world you could lower the grind and keep the same difficulty level. However the real world is not close to perfect. Its a video game people, theres only a few limited ways devs can make things challenging to someone who sits on their rear pushing buttons on a keyboard.  I always see people saying it can be done, but I have yet to see them provide a viable example of how to do it.



    I think it also brings "attention span" into play. I'm not going to go the typical "players these days all have ADD and want frequent and easy gratification".. There is some truth to that - and not only in terms of video games - but it's been discussed before and I'm not going to rehash it all here.



    In addition to a healthy attention span, FFXI definitely requires patience... Things don't come quickly or easily in XI. If it's meaningful or beneficial to your character, you have to earn it... and may well have to try more than once before you succeed. I really like that aspect of it and hope it remains the same in some form in XIV. If I can just waltz in and defeat some enemy on the first try, and it's not at least a really frigging tough fight where all my knowledge of the game and my character is brought to bear to win, then the reward feels less rewarding to me. I personally don't enjoy a game where everything's a guaranteed win so long as you follow Billy-Bob's Guide on some website.



    That you can't solo through the entire game in XI also means that people aren't isolated islands, keeping to themselves as they grind away, only talking to other players when they need something and absolutely have to. You can't do that in FFXI as the game's pace is much slower and more difficult to get through purely by soloing - especially the major story missions, etc. You can't be an island unto yourself - or at least it's very difficult to do so. This leads people to talk to and interact with others more, which also helps to build community.



    So... the point I'm getting at is... while it might seem like it's "a long grind for the sake of being a long grind", as with the heavy focus on grouping, the slower pace of FFXI also tends to lend itself more toward building a community of players, rather than a bunch of anonymous individuals all racing around in their own little world, charging through the game without hardly ever interacting with anyone else unless they absolutely have to.

     

    If XIV can achieve that as well, while also reducing the grind involved as well... that'll be quite the feat.



     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • VengerVenger Member UncommonPosts: 1,309

    If by friendlier do you mean less standing around wasting time LFG?  Sure.  I hope they keep the leveling pace slower.  I also hope they rework the crafting system too, FFXI crafting system wasn't that great.

  • Proximo521Proximo521 Member UncommonPosts: 283
    Originally posted by Venger


    If by friendlier do you mean less standing around wasting time LFG?  Sure.  I hope they keep the leveling pace slower.  I also hope they rework the crafting system too, FFXI crafting system wasn't that great.



     

    I definitely thought that they had a great idea as far as the crafting was concerned. Although, success/failure rate could have been done a little better. But all in all i felt that other factors played a role into that. Inventory and how crafting wasnt casual. Waiting for a full moon and the correct elemental day to make sure you got your money's worth was really hurting me to do other things.... such as Skill ups or leveling other jobs for my LS. I hope they make that portion a little more casual to do, that maybe too much to ask & a little harder to implement.

    Although I want a more casual crafting system i dont want them to make it too easy. I would really like if they just took out some of the factors such as moon phase and what not. I would like them to keep the leveling the same wether it be xp or not, I definitely felt like my achievments spoke for themselves once I was able to reach level 60 or even level 30.

    image

  • VengerVenger Member UncommonPosts: 1,309

    The crafting in FFXI was second rate at best.  It wasn't terrible but it certainly wasn't good.  What was terrible was the resource gathering and crystal use.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150

    If you want to lessen the time standaing around LFG , I think the best way would  be give more options on how to make a pt. FFXI downfall in that terms was WHM. WHM had a lock on the healing. Sure you could have SMN heal or 2 RDM's but it wasnt near as effective. RDM  and BRD  was really good at doing it but getting those 2 together was next to impossible. There was viable options to every other role in the game, but how would you make 2 main healing classes?

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • DaggitDaggit Member Posts: 16

     I certainly will be looking forward to a friendlier FF MMO. 

     

    I really enjoyed playing FFxi to endgame, but I really wouldnt want to expand on that type of of grind and more, becuase you have to assume this game will be longer. If it wasnt a bit easier, the grind would be endless, presumably.

     

    Either way though. Im going to play the crap out of this game. I would suffer through basically what ever SE put down just to see the story line. SE's ability to capture your attention with story line is like a drug.

  • KhrymsonKhrymson Member UncommonPosts: 3,090

    Don't ever need more than one main healer in any MMO.  More players just need to give it a chance longer than a few minutes instead of getting fed up because its a lot slower, and way more difficult!  The one thing that really pisses me off are melee players that have never played a healer and try to tell me its all about only staring at HP bars or try to tell me how it should be played.

     

    Healing, especially WHM in FFXI is a very tough job, and has way more to do with; than just watching HP bars fluctuate.  Gotta keep everyone full on HP between battles, remove debuffs, have time to rest and recover mana before next pull gets there, manage buffs, watch for enemies that can cast and get silence on them...etc etc {not gonna list them all...would take awhile, but if you've played a healer you know what I'm talking about...}

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150
    Originally posted by Khrymson


    Don't ever need more than one main healer in any MMO.  More players just need to give it a chance longer than a few minutes instead of getting fed up because its a lot slower, and way more difficult!  The one thing that really pisses me off are melee players that have never played a healer and try to tell me its all about only staring at HP bars or try to tell me how it should be played.
     
    Healing, especially WHM in FFXI is a very tough job, and has way more to do with; than just watching HP bars fluctuate.  Gotta keep everyone full on HP between battles, remove debuffs, have time to rest and recover mana before next pull gets there, manage buffs, watch for enemies that can cast and get silence on them...etc etc {not gonna list them all...would take awhile, but if you've played a healer you know what I'm talking about...}

     

    Man it just does not work that way, ya it would be nice if more people played whm. I know its a difficult class if your good at it. I still think you need options. Every other role had easy options, DD's support, and tanks.

    Every MMO I have played healers are the lowest in numbers. Very people like playing main healers. They dont get the "showtime" or the "e-peen" roles. Their not flashy, they are the most under rated job in MMO's, you have to have them.  When i made a PT in FFXI WHM was the first job that I got. If I couldnt get a whm I wouldnt even bother to try and make a pt. 

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • Mystik86Mystik86 Member CommonPosts: 380

    To be honest, and I hate to say it and come off as carebear, but yes I will play a friendlier FF MMO.

  • kreiothkreioth Member Posts: 5

     I hate to bring it up, and I don't wand FFXI to be anywhere near a WoW clone. Keep in mind I played FFXI for years as RDM/WHM or WHM/BLM. So I know just how true the mantra of finding a WHM is.

     

    However in WoW, there was no main healer type. Even the WHM - which was a priest in WoW for all practical purposes, was not the only class that could heal. Now out-right, are priests the best healers in WoW?   idk. I think they made all healing classes ( so WHM, RDM, SMN) equally able to heal, and they could heal through certain debuffs without having to remove them - or having the ability to remove them even.   To this day there are four clases that can heal in WoW - priest, pally, druid, shaman. They can all heal, and each bring a bit of a different style healing to the table. 

     

    I really don't know what they are going to do with FFXIV, whether it be the same fighting style, or maybe it's more interactive than it was before. Maybe now you can kill things by yourself, and with others.  Honestly they aren't really going to be specific, and if they can even pull off any of the generalities they have said so far in full, I'd be surprised.  To be honest, there's only so much you'll be able to do in 45min.  And if you've only got 45min of play time a night, no matter the MMO so far -  you have to put in time to make the game work or to have true fun - hence why you pay a subscription.. Every MMO has been and probably will be a time-sink in some fashon, else they wouldn't get the money out of the players they need to make it worth it.

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