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Why do Dev's think PvP is a must for a RPG?

Question ?? So why do all these Dev's make PvP such a big part of an RPG? I have played FFXI , DDO , Aoc , Lotr , War , ect.... this list goes on and on. But in each of these games the make class changes just for PvP? Look at AoC , I rolled on a PvE server because i like to Role Play , then patch after patch they keep changing the classes to fit a more PvP role. War i understand is RvR which i can go with because of the Lore, but they have made changes to just fit PvP ? I can go on in here for hours but is the RPGer going by the way side? With DFO and Mortal onlne do we need to make ever MMO fit into the PvP group? Heck look at WoW how many times have they redid the classes to make adjustments for PvP? wheres all my RPG??? Just hope FFXIV will be like FFXI

Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
Playing Rift

Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

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Comments

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36

    Just play console RPGs if you want to roleplay geez.

  • paintchipspaintchips Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Originally posted by Kane4002


    Just play console RPGs if you want to roleplay geez.

     

    Why don't you play multiplayers on your console if all you want to do is PvP?

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36

    PvP is not all I want to do, but after a while, it gets boring to kill the same monster over and over for the 100th time to grind gear with tank n spank dont you agree?

  • unimatrix8unimatrix8 Member Posts: 107

    Because people make such a big fuzz about PvP, they get their own PvP mmos and hell they dont even play them. Why because they are not as popular as the PvE mmos, so they come to games like WoW and Lotro and cry about PvP

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,314
    Originally posted by Zandora2018


     Heck look at WoW how many times have they redid the classes to make adjustments for PvP? wheres all my RPG???

     

    Maybe it isn't some strange delusion on the part of the devs, and that it actually is something many players enjoy in their MMO.

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • PranksterPrankster Member UncommonPosts: 163

    Because basically it is. always has been and will continue to be until developers discover how to create a strong AI. Hitting monsters over and over that react the same way over and over is boring and does not lead to long lasting subscriptions. So instead of improving the game and providing dynamic content additions on a regular basis free of charge developers have PvP to fall back on. Aion is a perfect example. not that its a bad game but it is in no way different at its core then any of the other 100 or so mmorpg titles. if it didn't have PvP you would make the end game get bored and quit.

    Balancing is to balance population . Increase player activity and overall hype. you cant tell me that after all these years the WoW developers couldn't completely balance the classes but in each major patch they site balancing as one of their improvements. this probably also has something to do with it being one of the easiest things to do wihtin the mechanic. Make X cast this much longer or do this much more or less damage. a couple lines of code and suddenly all the rangers are happy because they can shoot from 55 feet instead of only 50.. weee here's my 15 bux.

    Meaningful PvP as well as meaningful PvE is necessary to create a truly successful title. if either is lacking the publisher will only make 1/2 the money.

     

    Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36
    Originally posted by LynxJSA

    Originally posted by Zandora2018


     Heck look at WoW how many times have they redid the classes to make adjustments for PvP? wheres all my RPG???

     

    Maybe it isn't some strange delusion on the part of the devs, and that it actually is something many players enjoy in their MMO.

     

    QFT.

  • paintchipspaintchips Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Originally posted by Kane4002


    PvP is not all I want to do, but after a while, it gets boring to kill the same monster over and over for the 100th time to grind gear with tank n spank dont you agree?

     

    Of course it gets boring, why do you think everyone keeps looking for the one that finally gets it right. But at the end of the day MMORPG's are about character progression stats/level/gear/story/guild/groups, and if that aspect gives you no satisfaction then your playing the wrong genere (not you specifically).

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36

    Character progression should be possible by PvP, which makes many subscribe longer since they don't face the same ''mobs'' everyday.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Kane4002


    Character progression should be possible by PvP, which makes many subscribe longer since they don't face the same ''mobs'' everyday.



     

    Oh you mean like Warhammer?

    Oh wait...

     

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198

    If there is no PvP, you aren't roleplaying, unless the game takes place in a world with some mystical force that prevents people from attacking each other.  There shouldn't be such a thing as RP-PvE servers, because the combination is inherently nonsensical.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36
    Originally posted by heerobya

    Originally posted by Kane4002


    Character progression should be possible by PvP, which makes many subscribe longer since they don't face the same ''mobs'' everyday.



     

    Oh you mean like Warhammer?

    Oh wait...

     

    Warhammer is a Zergfest, not PvP, and besides, before you can actually PvP you need to grind PvE dungeons till you get lucky that your armor piece drops from the boss, and heck, to make it worse, you get locked out of the dungeon for a couple of days if you dont get your pice.

    Warhammer is epic fail in that regard.

     

    To the above poster: I agree, but some prefer to live in happy shiny fairy land where everyone gets along and and helps each other.

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240
    Originally posted by CazNeerg


    If there is no PvP, you aren't roleplaying, unless the game takes place in a world with some mystical force that prevents people from attacking each other.  There shouldn't be such a thing as RP-PvE servers, because the combination is inherently nonsensical.



     

    So FFXI there should be alot of PvP ? WoW there should be alot of PvP ?? My point on this thread is why do all the Dev's go after the PvP groups? The Dev's will rework all the classes in a game just so a stupid carebear will not cry when a mage hits him for 1000k damage and kill him in one hit? Why not spend that time in making the game better ?? adding new mobs,quest,raids, ect ...... I play MMORPG's NOT !!! for PvP . I'm not saying that it is not fun . Aoc had a great PvP system but how many times did they rework the classes just for PvP ?? Nukers' nuke less ... healers heal less and shorter range ... tanks do more DPS .... Come on guys why ??

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • Kane4002Kane4002 Member Posts: 36
    Originally posted by Zandora2018

    Originally posted by CazNeerg


    If there is no PvP, you aren't roleplaying, unless the game takes place in a world with some mystical force that prevents people from attacking each other.  There shouldn't be such a thing as RP-PvE servers, because the combination is inherently nonsensical.



     

    So FFXI there should be alot of PvP ? WoW there should be alot of PvP ?? My point on this thread is why do all the Dev's go after the PvP groups? The Dev's will rework all the classes in a game just so a stupid carebear will not cry when a mage hits him for 1000k damage and kill him in one hit? Why not spend that time in making the game better ?? adding new mobs,quest,raids, ect ...... I play MMORPG's NOT !!! for PvP . I'm not saying that it is not fun . Aoc had a great PvP system but how many times did they rework the classes just for PvP ?? Nukers' nuke less ... healers heal less and shorter range ... tanks do more DPS .... Come on guys why ??

     

    I dont think you should be using the term ''carebear'' tbh.

  • orlacorlac Member Posts: 549

    Prior to 9/11, pretty much all MMOs were PVE other than UO. After that, PvP took off oddly enough. As it stands, most MMOs now make the bulk of their revenue from PvPers, hence the attention given.

     

    Plus, after awhile it gets old killing predictable MOBs.

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240
    Originally posted by orlac


    Prior to 9/11, pretty much all MMOs were PVE other than UO. After that, PvP took off oddly enough. As it stands, most MMOs now make the bulk of their revenue from PvPers, hence the attention given.
     
    Plus, after awhile it gets old killing predictable MOBs.



     

    Ok from a company stand point i can see there is $$$$ in PvP . But i myself will quit a game after they make 100's of class changes just for PvP. Like AoC , i left because it got way out of hand. My PoM could PvP all "Tank" classes with ease, but in the raids no "Tank" = no raid? Why is that? Then they go and give"Tanks" more dps ? Making the AI better will be hard no question about that. But if and when they do it will be the return of the great RPG?

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,314
    Originally posted by orlac


    Prior to 9/11, pretty much all MMOs were PVE other than UO. After that, PvP took off oddly enough. As it stands, most MMOs now make the bulk of their revenue from PvPers, hence the attention given.

     

    Legends of Kesmai - PVP (although they had low tolerance for random PKing)

    Ultima Online - YARRR! :) 

    Motor City Online - race muscle cars against other drivers

    Asheron's Call  - was originally going to be all PvP then changed to optional PvP on all servers except for Darktide, the full PvP server

    Meridian 59 - PvP

    The 4th Coming - PvP

    Lineage - large scale  PvP core gameplay from the start

     

    Were you just looking for an excuse to type "9/11" on a web board?

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198

    If you want to argue that PvE is more important than PvP, go ahead, but don't try to pretend it is about roleplaying, because PvP is essential to a believable roleplaying environment in a multiplayer game.  If you want RP without PvP, play a single player game.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • AllNewMMOSukAllNewMMOSuk Member Posts: 241
    Originally posted by LynxJSA

    Originally posted by orlac


    Prior to 9/11, pretty much all MMOs were PVE other than UO. After that, PvP took off oddly enough. As it stands, most MMOs now make the bulk of their revenue from PvPers, hence the attention given.

     

    Legends of Kesmai - PVP (although they had low tolerance for random PKing)

    Ultima Online - YARRR! :) 

    Motor City Online - race muscle cars against other drivers

    Asheron's Call  - was originally going to be all PvP then changed to optional PvP on all servers except for Darktide, the full PvP server

    Meridian 59 - PvP

    The 4th Coming - PvP

    Lineage - large scale  PvP core gameplay from the start

     

    Were you just looking for an excuse to type "9/11" on a web board?

    Should also point out that shortly after release EQ made the RvR servers. It also made an attempt at monster play early on.

     

     

    So ya all of the initial graphic MMOs had PvP incorporated in them, it's not that MMOs suddenly decided to add PvP, it is that suddenly a bunch of people started playing MMOs that were afraid of PvP.

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,314
    Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

     It also made an attempt at monster play early on.

     

    Whoa, cool! I never knew that.

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,824
    Originally posted by CazNeerg


    If there is no PvP, you aren't roleplaying, unless the game takes place in a world with some mystical force that prevents people from attacking each other.  There shouldn't be such a thing as RP-PvE servers, because the combination is inherently nonsensical.



     

     

    So you're saying that there should only be RP-PVP servers so that companies can justify to share holders and investors running a server for 6 people....

     

    Well maybe the pvp servers in AoC have more population than that.   Oh and I am referencing a currently live game that is considered one of if not "the" best pvp mmo's... for that 6 number.

     

    As players we can make up all kinds of nonsensical rules... but mmo's are run by for profit companies.

     

    I don't run around killing people on a daily basis ... So I'm not sure how if I RP in a "fantasy" world that is an alternate earth.. why I would suddenly be killing people on a daily basis.

     

    Sounds kind of .... nonsensical....

     

    Tho I have to admit after reading various forums.. I've often wondered what a judge would say when my defense was:

     

    "But I was only 300 rp's from realm rank 12...."

     

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,163
    Originally posted by Kane4002

    Originally posted by heerobya

    Originally posted by Kane4002


    Character progression should be possible by PvP, which makes many subscribe longer since they don't face the same ''mobs'' everyday.



     

    Oh you mean like Warhammer?

    Oh wait...

     

    Warhammer is a Zergfest, not PvP, and besides, before you can actually PvP you need to grind PvE dungeons till you get lucky that your armor piece drops from the boss, and heck, to make it worse, you get locked out of the dungeon for a couple of days if you dont get your pice.

    Warhammer is epic fail in that regard.

     

    To the above poster: I agree, but some prefer to live in happy shiny fairy land where everyone gets along and and helps each other.

     

    I'm not going to argue if WAR is good or not but I will say have you played WAR? There is no need for PvE at all. Step 1. Log in Step 2. Click Scenario button Step 3. PvP

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240
    Originally posted by CazNeerg


    If you want to argue that PvE is more important than PvP, go ahead, but don't try to pretend it is about roleplaying, because PvP is essential to a believable roleplaying environment in a multiplayer game.  If you want RP without PvP, play a single player game.



     

    Think you are missing my point here. Why change the game play of PvE just for the PvPer's . Why make the clsses balance each other so everyone has a fair chance at PvP? Why make "Tanks" have aton of dps? Is that not what rangers,mages are for? Why make healers have to be within 2 feet of their target just to heal them? Heck why make healers wear Med. armour ? What am asking here is why they have to change PvE just for PvP? They have to rework all the spells, weapons, armour ect... Just so everyone can have a fair fight in PvP ?

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • CracKxPoTCracKxPoT Member Posts: 6

    If you dont like the factor of the characters stats are more based for pvp than pve why not play a game where you can choose a game where  gear is what counts for how your character is based ( high def gear for pve high amp/atk gear for pvp)  so you can base your set around PvE...a good example of game that is like this is Cabal online.

    but the reason why devs base games more around pvp is i think because it gives people more interaction in game with other people which is whats intended for a online mmo

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240
    Originally posted by CracKxPoT


    If you dont like the factor of the characters stats are more based for pvp than pve why not play a game where you can choose a game where  gear is what counts for how your character is based ( high def gear for pve high amp/atk gear for pvp)  so you can base your set around PvE...a good example of game that is like this is Cabal online. Point taken... But name a main stream game that has this? WoW = no AoC = no LotRo = kinda of WaR = kinda of (yes i know it is a RvR game) ect ....
    but the reason why devs base games more around pvp is i think because it gives people more interaction in game with other people which is whats intended for a online mmo



     

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

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