I totally agree! I am so tired of the same old format that I welcome what I hope will be a successful deviation. I'm a big fan of Bioware anyway, so ya'll will please forgive me for being optimistic
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
It's a fully voiced game ( no offence, but I could give a rats ass if it's voiced or not) with individual story arcs ( EXACTLY the problem.. IF Bioware holds true to this , this means that so many players will be time line split from each other.. UNLESS Bioware has no intent to do this because it restricts grouping.. In that case all thier hype about individual story arcs is just bullshit) the outcome of which is affected by your decisions. While that's nothing new for single player games it is unique for a MMO. ( NOT unique, this was done by Blizzard in WoW's 2 expansion zones.. It's called phasing, which in my opinion SUCKS.. Phasing IMO if very anti mmo friendly) The difference in the UI from Mass effect is more than one player may contribute to the conversation. That also is as far as I know unique. THe differences may be subtle but they're real. (It doesn't matter if one person or many talk to the NPC.. that NPC is programed to a predetermined choice of endings.. PERIOD.... Example is that a group is conversing and the group ends up "bribing" the npc.. Does it really matter? That NPC was preprogramed to be a) killed, b) bribed or c) left alone.. ) Furthermore, how can group members converse to the NPC IF they chose a different story arc? hmmm is that MMO'ish?
You know...I really couldn't care less about your attitude towards the game. It's your prerogative to not like the concept. But you have pushed a few buttons here, namely, spreading of false information to back your arguments.
Let's look at this more closely, shall we?
1) UI and Graphics from Mass Effect.
Do I even have to comment on this? I mean....seriously? Give me the link to your supposed journalist source. I have a feeling I know what you are referring to, but if so, you took it completely out of context - AND- warped it even further to suit your needs. The only interview comment comparing Mass Effect to TOR was a comment where they compared the Dialogue Wheel. If you have other sources that actually compare the full UI and the graphics, please, share them.
2) Unique Storylines with Multiple Endings depending on your choices over the course of the story = Phasing in WoW.
Are you being intentionally clueless? I mean...seriously? Do you want anyone to take you seriously? Show me -one- quest/storyline in WoW with multiple endings which depend on your actions and decisions within the story/quest arc and I will apologize to you publicly.
For clarification: Phasing allows players on different stages of the -SAME- questline to see areas of the game differently (for example, someone who has completed a quest would see a certain building already rebuilt while the one who has not completed the quest would still see it in construction). This is a mechanic that supposedly will be used by BioWare in the game but has nada, zip, nothing to do with branching story-arcs in which your decisions actually take you down different paths to a different ending.
3) You do not care for voice-overs.
Fine again. That is your prerogative, but don't just brush it aside like it is nothing. Not caring for it is all nice and fine, but to just dismiss it as unimportant is, again, intentionally ignorant. It -is- something that has not been done before and that's the end of it. You liking it or not has no impact on that.
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In conclusion. Many people see your point, you know. That you do not like story-based MMO's. That you think having branching questlines and so on will detract from the MMO-feel. I can see that argument, I really can. I am pretty sure that the leveling process of the game will play a lot less like a traditional MMO. The MMO part will (hopefully) begin when you reach the endgame, where PvP/PvE and social stuff will (again, hopefully) keep you occupied in case you do not wish to go through another story.
But that's speculation, as I cannot prove that. I understand your concerns and share them to a degree, namely, me being concerned that the end-game will only be implemented half-heartedly, but I will wait and see.
But you should really restrict your arguments to those that are actually real and not make up random things on the fly. That just weakens your position tremendously.
Well said singsofdeath.
Rydeson the only thing that makes sense in your entire rant is the word "bullshit". Every thing else is pretty much irrelevant at this point because we do not know period.
Instead renting (subscribing) to play singleplayer game , in MMO guise
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
Instead renting (subscribing) to play singleplayer game , in MMO guise
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
Voice adds a immersive element to a game. Reading text reminds you that this is a fake / false experience. Try watching a movie with only using sub titles verus watching the same movie with voices. The difference is quite a bit actually. Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
Instead renting (subscribing) to play singleplayer game , in MMO guise
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
Voice adds a immersive element to a game. Reading text reminds you that this is a fake / false experience. Try watching a movie with only using sub titles verus watching the same movie with voices. The difference is quite a bit actually. Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
I think the greater immersion comes from being forced to listen to all that the character has to say. It has just become a horrible habit to skip through quest dialogs, skimming just enough to find out who/what I have to kill/do next. In away it will force players to slow down and enjoy the gameplay, taking away the rush to level that sometimes becomes the dominant factor in our gameplay.
Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
That might be somewhat true in the US and in countries where they dub most of the movies and TV-programs. It is clearly a cultural issue. It is not an issue in countries where they use original language and subtitles, like mine. However, our box office hits seem to be mostly American films as well and it got very little to do with the language barrier.
So I would say that your analogy does not really hold water that well albeit it might be ONE of the reasons in your country and in few others.
Production values, celebrities and marketing...
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
So movies and shows with subtitles are "sub-standard"?.. I'll remember that the next time I'm watching a movie with someone who is hearing impaired.. That my immersion in the movie is far superior then theirs.. I enjoy books much more then movies.. I have yet to ever view a movie that was as good as the book.. IMO I believe most everyone would agree with me that actually reads.. As for the immersion.. How entertaining do you think it will be to be FORCED to view and listen to the same audio clip over and over without the option to say, "SKIP IT"? hmmmm Any Idea?
PS.. I play PS3 frequently, such as Tiger Woods 10 and looking forward to NCAA Football 10 in July.. These games as well as dozens of others allow online interaction, but they are NOT called or discribed as MMO's.. There is a reason.. From what info I see so far by Bioware shows TOR to be nothing more then these types of games.. To guise a game as a MMO just to justify a monthly subscription is just greed and misleading
Voice adds a immersive element to a game. Reading text reminds you that this is a fake / false experience. Try watching a movie with only using sub titles verus watching the same movie with voices. The difference is quite a bit actually. Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
I think the greater immersion comes from being forced to listen to all that the character has to say. It has just become a horrible habit to skip through quest dialogs, skimming just enough to find out who/what I have to kill/do next. In away it will force players to slow down and enjoy the gameplay, taking away the rush to level that sometimes becomes the dominant factor in our gameplay.
I am not sure whether this is a good thing or not.
Personally, I prefer to read dialogue and skip spoken scripts.
This is partly because I find the imagination provides a richer version of what a character's voice 'should' sound like than the actor providing that voice.
Equally, voice-acting does 'slow' the action down. Now, some might enjoy that but most players, I suspect, prefer to set their own pace for the game rather than have the game's various latencies - which can take the form of loading screens, instances, grouping requirements, and now voice acting - do it for them.
People skip reading text in quests in MMOs because they just dont care for the details, and people will still continue to do so in ToR even with voiceovers. The only quests in MMO i ever pay attention to are the Main Story quests, the filler quests are always garbage. Im sure ToR will be no different.
Personally i think adding voiceovers to story missions and cutscenes is enough, but adding voiceovers to EVERY mission is more of a cosmetic thing and IMO just a waste of time.
People skip reading text in quests in MMOs because they just dont care for the details, and people will still continue to do so in ToR even with voiceovers. The only quests in MMO i ever pay attention to are the Main Story quests, the filler quests are always garbage. Im sure ToR will be no different. Personally i think adding voiceovers to story missions and cutscenes is enough, but adding voiceovers to EVERY mission is more of a cosmetic thing and IMO just a waste of time.
Could of been more eloquently worded, but I have the same sentiments. Its too much extra dev time that could be used for more valuable game elements for some its a sad truth, but its a truth nonetheless....though if anyone can try to hack at it, EA has the resources. In the end its Star Wars, even burned by SWG ... I think I'm going to buy it for a try, lol.
People skip reading text in quests in MMOs because they just dont care for the details, and people will still continue to do so in ToR even with voiceovers. The only quests in MMO i ever pay attention to are the Main Story quests, the filler quests are always garbage. Im sure ToR will be no different. Personally i think adding voiceovers to story missions and cutscenes is enough, but adding voiceovers to EVERY mission is more of a cosmetic thing and IMO just a waste of time.
Agreed
ATTENTION BIOWARE.. Blizzard already does voice over cut scenes.. SHIT.. my first voice over was in the Deadmines YEARS ago.. Granted it's great and fun if used appropriately.. I loved the cut scenes in Dragonblight when doing the quest for the battle of Undercity.. However, if I had to deal with that the entire game with every "average" quest mission.. I'd go nuts.. I mean really, if TOR is going to have voice overs on everything, I hope they offer a "turn off" feature or "skip" feature..
You might be right ... and you might be wrong. Pretty much a failed topic however (since you're basically using definitive on a speculation of yours).
I totally agree. This guys draws a conclusion from his own speculation and, from that, makes a prediction of the game's demise. Interesting theoriy I suppose, but more of an exercise in mental masturbation.
You are playing a video game. By definition that means you are not hardcore.
I think that the correct title for the thread should be along the lines of 'I think this won't be a true MMO game'. The game is not out. Info is scarce, at best. No one knows anything about the game regarding game mechanics. Bioware did say alot of the game is soloable though, so who knows? You might have a point.
For me, its good news. I get no particular kicks off of having hundreds of people running around me in tows and in the wilderness. My plans for swtor go no further then playing the game with 1 or 2 friends, tops. If I have to engage in larger groups for end game content, I will, but it wont be the norm for me. wow has scarred me for life regarding interaction with other mmo players.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I think that the correct title for the thread should be along the lines of 'I think this won't be a true MMO game'. The game is not out. Info is scarce, at best. No one knows anything about the game regarding game mechanics. Bioware did say alot of the game is soloable though, so who knows? You might have a point. For me, its good news. I get no particular kicks off of having hundreds of people running around me in tows and in the wilderness. My plans for swtor go no further then playing the game with 1 or 2 friends, tops. If I have to engage in larger groups for end game content, I will, but it wont be the norm for me. wow has scarred me for life regarding interaction with other mmo players.
I was thinking more along the linse of "I think this won't be what I want it to be as an MMO".
I think that the correct title for the thread should be along the lines of 'I think this won't be a true MMO game'. The game is not out. Info is scarce, at best. No one knows anything about the game regarding game mechanics. Bioware did say alot of the game is soloable though, so who knows? You might have a point. For me, its good news. I get no particular kicks off of having hundreds of people running around me in tows and in the wilderness. My plans for swtor go no further then playing the game with 1 or 2 friends, tops. If I have to engage in larger groups for end game content, I will, but it wont be the norm for me. wow has scarred me for life regarding interaction with other mmo players.
I was thinking more along the linse of "I think this won't be what I want it to be as an MMO".
it probably will suit players who are only interested in playing with a small group of friends (wow pug nightmares do put people off that i do understand all too well!!!!) in as much as this game will probably be a lot like guildwars, central areas where quests are picked up/turned in etc, and the rest being instanced, more MO than MMO tbh, it would probably make a decent f2p game with micro payments maybe
The game has the usual tenets of MMO gameplay, including guilds, raids, pvp, end-game, trading and so on.
The game also has the engrossing story of BioWare single player rpgs.
Its achieved by using instancing features contained within the Hero engine, which allows for singular rooms to be instanced. For example, you will be able to quest with your friends as per any other MMO, but when its time to hand in the quest, you go back to your mentor who will be in an instanced room, so that no-one can disturb your story, yet, metres behind you, your friends still await.
Its an MMO in the traditional sense and people who can't see it at this point appear to be nay-saying.
Its simple. The game has the usual tenets of MMO gameplay, including guilds, raids, pvp, end-game, trading and so on. Can you link us the FACTS on this info.. We have NO clue what PvP will be like.. End-game as it's traditionally thought hasn't even been discussed by Bioware.. Traiding? Tradeskill economy will be "minimal".. just enough to say they have it.. As for "mmo" gameplay? I think having every other encounter via hero engine "aka phasing" is bullchit.. As much as I hate to so it, ganking, killstealing, helping, ninja looting are all parts of MMO gameplay.. From what I hear so far.. This is a RPG in the guise of a true MMORPG.. The game also has the engrossing story of BioWare single player rpgs. That is yet to be seen Its achieved by using instancing features contained within the Hero engine, which allows for singular rooms to be instanced. For example, you will be able to quest with your friends as per any other MMO, but when its time to hand in the quest, you go back to your mentor who will be in an instanced room, so that no-one can disturb your story, yet, metres behind you, your friends still await. Its an MMO in the traditional ????????? sense and people who can't see it at this point appear to be nay-saying.
I totally agree! I am so tired of the same old format that I welcome what I hope will be a successful deviation. I'm a big fan of Bioware anyway, so ya'll will please forgive me for being optimistic
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
And both KoTOR 1 and 2 were absolutely amazing. So what exactly is the problem either way?
The problem here my friend is the deception of passing off a SPORPG (single player online RPG) as a true MMO.. If you like any of the KoTOR's that is fine.. It's a 1 time charge game, but to deceive the public just to milk more pockets from people expecting a MMO is just wrong.. I do have reason to be hesitant.. afteral, the GM's incharge are the SAME decieptful boys from SWG.. (which we all know was all about deciept).. Heck, look what they do with the expansion.. SELLING it , knowing damn well they were implimenting the NGE shortly after.. You talk about lies and deceipt.. BINGO.. They didnt' even offer refunds for people that bought the expansion and played it for a week..
PS.. I was long gone from SWG before all hell broke loose
That is just stupid. The PC Gamer article states that the game will be like 6-7 times bigger than the original KOTOR. So what is the problem of playing if you are playing new good content?
6 times KOTOR is like 6x$40 = 240 ... you can buy the box and sub for a year (if they charge standard rate).
I totally agree! I am so tired of the same old format that I welcome what I hope will be a successful deviation. I'm a big fan of Bioware anyway, so ya'll will please forgive me for being optimistic
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
And both KoTOR 1 and 2 were absolutely amazing. So what exactly is the problem either way?
The problem here my friend is the deception of passing off a SPORPG (single player online RPG) as a true MMO.. If you like any of the KoTOR's that is fine.. It's a 1 time charge game, but to deceive the public just to milk more pockets from people expecting a MMO is just wrong.. I do have reason to be hesitant.. afteral, the GM's incharge are the SAME decieptful boys from SWG.. (which we all know was all about deciept).. Heck, look what they do with the expansion.. SELLING it , knowing damn well they were implimenting the NGE shortly after.. You talk about lies and deceipt.. BINGO.. They didnt' even offer refunds for people that bought the expansion and played it for a week..
PS.. I was long gone from SWG before all hell broke loose
That is just stupid. The PC Gamer article states that the game will be like 6-7 times bigger than the original KOTOR. So what is the problem of playing if you are playing new good content?
6 times KOTOR is like 6x$40 = 240 ... you can buy the box and sub for a year (if they charge standard rate).
or you could buy the game and sub it for a year at hmm $50 + (11 x $15) = $215. only you still have to keep paying right... oh noes.. lot to pay for a single player online game - at least guild wars was free once you bought the game itself.
One thing I learned about people discribing the size of something online.. It's never as big as people say.. lmao.. So if it's 6 or 7 times bigger, it's safe to say it's really only 3 or 4 times bigger.. lmaoo.. But hey, it's your money (ooops I mean parents money) so buy or "rent" what you want.. Have fun
Well, from the sounds of it, I'm guessing this will be an instance-heavy game. The easiest way to make this work is to have the major quest stuff instanced and have an open world outside of that. I agree that the whole things seems improbable, but I think that it will very likely work. They have a crapload of funds from Lucas Arts (and a lot of voice actors, writers and designers they can draw from), have game studio with a lot of experience but that looks at MMOs at a new angle. What I think Bioware is attempting to do is focus more on the "RPG" half of the game. I actually think that that type of perspective can change the industry for the better.
One thing I learned about people discribing the size of something online.. It's never as big as people say.. lmao.. So if it's 6 or 7 times bigger, it's safe to say it's really only 3 or 4 times bigger.. lmaoo.. But hey, it's your money (ooops I mean parents money) so buy or "rent" what you want.. Have fun
Actually, they were talking about contents. The game will be the equivalent in contents to 6-10 time Kotor or if you prefer doing Kotor 3 to 10 at the same time. And with 40+ novel worth of spoken dialog, 200 hours of story by class with good/neutral/evil choices and 8 classes, I believe it.
For comparison, Kotor had 20-30 hour of story, 3 classes and 1 storyline for everyone with good/neutral/evil choices.
Comments
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
It's a fully voiced game ( no offence, but I could give a rats ass if it's voiced or not) with individual story arcs ( EXACTLY the problem.. IF Bioware holds true to this , this means that so many players will be time line split from each other.. UNLESS Bioware has no intent to do this because it restricts grouping.. In that case all thier hype about individual story arcs is just bullshit) the outcome of which is affected by your decisions. While that's nothing new for single player games it is unique for a MMO. ( NOT unique, this was done by Blizzard in WoW's 2 expansion zones.. It's called phasing, which in my opinion SUCKS.. Phasing IMO if very anti mmo friendly) The difference in the UI from Mass effect is more than one player may contribute to the conversation. That also is as far as I know unique. THe differences may be subtle but they're real. (It doesn't matter if one person or many talk to the NPC.. that NPC is programed to a predetermined choice of endings.. PERIOD.... Example is that a group is conversing and the group ends up "bribing" the npc.. Does it really matter? That NPC was preprogramed to be a) killed, b) bribed or c) left alone.. ) Furthermore, how can group members converse to the NPC IF they chose a different story arc? hmmm is that MMO'ish?
You know...I really couldn't care less about your attitude towards the game. It's your prerogative to not like the concept. But you have pushed a few buttons here, namely, spreading of false information to back your arguments.
Let's look at this more closely, shall we?
1) UI and Graphics from Mass Effect.
Do I even have to comment on this? I mean....seriously? Give me the link to your supposed journalist source. I have a feeling I know what you are referring to, but if so, you took it completely out of context - AND- warped it even further to suit your needs. The only interview comment comparing Mass Effect to TOR was a comment where they compared the Dialogue Wheel. If you have other sources that actually compare the full UI and the graphics, please, share them.
2) Unique Storylines with Multiple Endings depending on your choices over the course of the story = Phasing in WoW.
Are you being intentionally clueless? I mean...seriously? Do you want anyone to take you seriously? Show me -one- quest/storyline in WoW with multiple endings which depend on your actions and decisions within the story/quest arc and I will apologize to you publicly.
For clarification: Phasing allows players on different stages of the -SAME- questline to see areas of the game differently (for example, someone who has completed a quest would see a certain building already rebuilt while the one who has not completed the quest would still see it in construction). This is a mechanic that supposedly will be used by BioWare in the game but has nada, zip, nothing to do with branching story-arcs in which your decisions actually take you down different paths to a different ending.
3) You do not care for voice-overs.
Fine again. That is your prerogative, but don't just brush it aside like it is nothing. Not caring for it is all nice and fine, but to just dismiss it as unimportant is, again, intentionally ignorant. It -is- something that has not been done before and that's the end of it. You liking it or not has no impact on that.
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In conclusion. Many people see your point, you know. That you do not like story-based MMO's. That you think having branching questlines and so on will detract from the MMO-feel. I can see that argument, I really can. I am pretty sure that the leveling process of the game will play a lot less like a traditional MMO. The MMO part will (hopefully) begin when you reach the endgame, where PvP/PvE and social stuff will (again, hopefully) keep you occupied in case you do not wish to go through another story.
But that's speculation, as I cannot prove that. I understand your concerns and share them to a degree, namely, me being concerned that the end-game will only be implemented half-heartedly, but I will wait and see.
But you should really restrict your arguments to those that are actually real and not make up random things on the fly. That just weakens your position tremendously.
Well said singsofdeath.
Rydeson the only thing that makes sense in your entire rant is the word "bullshit". Every thing else is pretty much irrelevant at this point because we do not know period.
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
Voice adds a immersive element to a game. Reading text reminds you that this is a fake / false experience. Try watching a movie with only using sub titles verus watching the same movie with voices. The difference is quite a bit actually. Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
(OT) Okay, I'm almost 99% sure that there will be a subscription in this game, but you can't be sure. I have heard rumors that this game COULD be a game without a subscription... Rumors are rumors tho. (End of OT)
Not to be starting anything but the feeling I get from watching the movies and reading info is this give off a heavy Guild Wars feeling. Pay for the game, then pay for expansion packs but no monthly fee. Unless they go item shop point purchase with stuff.
You have a good point.. This could very well be KOTOR meets Guild Wars.. You rent KoTOR 3 (aka SWTOR) monthly for the story content, then end game is nothing but Guild Wars in space.. The thing is.. GW doesn't charge a monthly fee..
OH.. one other thing.. I hear alot of ranting and raving about "voice" over quest.. Am I missing something here?? I've listened to many of audio books and read them as well.. I truely don't see the difference other then one is hands free.. LOL I'm calling my library today and demand they get rid of all "text" books but audio is so much superior... lmaooo The point I'm making is that there is no difference what so ever between text and audio quest.. A quest is a quest is a quest.. However if you like being brainwashed by devs to believe audio is so much superior.. Watch out for the Kool-Aid !!
Voice adds a immersive element to a game. Reading text reminds you that this is a fake / false experience. Try watching a movie with only using sub titles verus watching the same movie with voices. The difference is quite a bit actually. Why do you think foreign movies do so poorly at the box office? Most people simply do not enjoy reading as part of a immersive experience.
I think the greater immersion comes from being forced to listen to all that the character has to say. It has just become a horrible habit to skip through quest dialogs, skimming just enough to find out who/what I have to kill/do next. In away it will force players to slow down and enjoy the gameplay, taking away the rush to level that sometimes becomes the dominant factor in our gameplay.
That might be somewhat true in the US and in countries where they dub most of the movies and TV-programs. It is clearly a cultural issue. It is not an issue in countries where they use original language and subtitles, like mine. However, our box office hits seem to be mostly American films as well and it got very little to do with the language barrier.
So I would say that your analogy does not really hold water that well albeit it might be ONE of the reasons in your country and in few others.
Production values, celebrities and marketing...
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
So movies and shows with subtitles are "sub-standard"?.. I'll remember that the next time I'm watching a movie with someone who is hearing impaired.. That my immersion in the movie is far superior then theirs.. I enjoy books much more then movies.. I have yet to ever view a movie that was as good as the book.. IMO I believe most everyone would agree with me that actually reads.. As for the immersion.. How entertaining do you think it will be to be FORCED to view and listen to the same audio clip over and over without the option to say, "SKIP IT"? hmmmm Any Idea?
PS.. I play PS3 frequently, such as Tiger Woods 10 and looking forward to NCAA Football 10 in July.. These games as well as dozens of others allow online interaction, but they are NOT called or discribed as MMO's.. There is a reason.. From what info I see so far by Bioware shows TOR to be nothing more then these types of games.. To guise a game as a MMO just to justify a monthly subscription is just greed and misleading
I think the greater immersion comes from being forced to listen to all that the character has to say. It has just become a horrible habit to skip through quest dialogs, skimming just enough to find out who/what I have to kill/do next. In away it will force players to slow down and enjoy the gameplay, taking away the rush to level that sometimes becomes the dominant factor in our gameplay.
I am not sure whether this is a good thing or not.
Personally, I prefer to read dialogue and skip spoken scripts.
This is partly because I find the imagination provides a richer version of what a character's voice 'should' sound like than the actor providing that voice.
Equally, voice-acting does 'slow' the action down. Now, some might enjoy that but most players, I suspect, prefer to set their own pace for the game rather than have the game's various latencies - which can take the form of loading screens, instances, grouping requirements, and now voice acting - do it for them.
ToR is going to be a big gamble for Bioware.
People skip reading text in quests in MMOs because they just dont care for the details, and people will still continue to do so in ToR even with voiceovers. The only quests in MMO i ever pay attention to are the Main Story quests, the filler quests are always garbage. Im sure ToR will be no different.
Personally i think adding voiceovers to story missions and cutscenes is enough, but adding voiceovers to EVERY mission is more of a cosmetic thing and IMO just a waste of time.
Could of been more eloquently worded, but I have the same sentiments. Its too much extra dev time that could be used for more valuable game elements
for some its a sad truth, but its a truth nonetheless....though if anyone can try to hack at it, EA has the resources. In the end its Star Wars, even burned by SWG ... I think I'm going to buy it for a try, lol.
Agreed
ATTENTION BIOWARE.. Blizzard already does voice over cut scenes.. SHIT.. my first voice over was in the Deadmines YEARS ago.. Granted it's great and fun if used appropriately.. I loved the cut scenes in Dragonblight when doing the quest for the battle of Undercity.. However, if I had to deal with that the entire game with every "average" quest mission.. I'd go nuts.. I mean really, if TOR is going to have voice overs on everything, I hope they offer a "turn off" feature or "skip" feature..
I believe you can skip them like in any other Bioware game, as far as I remember.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I totally agree. This guys draws a conclusion from his own speculation and, from that, makes a prediction of the game's demise. Interesting theoriy I suppose, but more of an exercise in mental masturbation.
You are playing a video game. By definition that means you are not hardcore.
I've kept the only part of your statement that was important.
Good job on deducing the obvious, yes its KOTOR 3, yes its online.
I'm hoping it DOES Play as smoothly as a single player game, I hope it DOESNT feel like an MMO cus most MMOs feel stale and hollow.
yes please go for the depth and creativeness of a single player game that just HAPPENS to have a wonderfully integrated multiplayer aspect.
That would be for the best in my opinion.
I think that the correct title for the thread should be along the lines of 'I think this won't be a true MMO game'. The game is not out. Info is scarce, at best. No one knows anything about the game regarding game mechanics. Bioware did say alot of the game is soloable though, so who knows? You might have a point.
For me, its good news. I get no particular kicks off of having hundreds of people running around me in tows and in the wilderness. My plans for swtor go no further then playing the game with 1 or 2 friends, tops. If I have to engage in larger groups for end game content, I will, but it wont be the norm for me. wow has scarred me for life regarding interaction with other mmo players.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I was thinking more along the linse of "I think this won't be what I want it to be as an MMO".
I was thinking more along the linse of "I think this won't be what I want it to be as an MMO".
it probably will suit players who are only interested in playing with a small group of friends (wow pug nightmares do put people off that i do understand all too well!!!!) in as much as this game will probably be a lot like guildwars, central areas where quests are picked up/turned in etc, and the rest being instanced, more MO than MMO tbh, it would probably make a decent f2p game with micro payments maybe
So this forum woks like this then. If you dont like how TOR sounds you cant speculate.
But if you praise all the hype then you can speculate on how this game is going to be great and breathe of life back into the genre?
I see fans assuming how the game will be more than the haters. I guess this is a mmo
Its simple.
The game has the usual tenets of MMO gameplay, including guilds, raids, pvp, end-game, trading and so on.
The game also has the engrossing story of BioWare single player rpgs.
Its achieved by using instancing features contained within the Hero engine, which allows for singular rooms to be instanced. For example, you will be able to quest with your friends as per any other MMO, but when its time to hand in the quest, you go back to your mentor who will be in an instanced room, so that no-one can disturb your story, yet, metres behind you, your friends still await.
Its an MMO in the traditional sense and people who can't see it at this point appear to be nay-saying.
LOL
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
And both KoTOR 1 and 2 were absolutely amazing. So what exactly is the problem either way?
The problem here my friend is the deception of passing off a SPORPG (single player online RPG) as a true MMO.. If you like any of the KoTOR's that is fine.. It's a 1 time charge game, but to deceive the public just to milk more pockets from people expecting a MMO is just wrong.. I do have reason to be hesitant.. afteral, the GM's incharge are the SAME decieptful boys from SWG.. (which we all know was all about deciept).. Heck, look what they do with the expansion.. SELLING it , knowing damn well they were implimenting the NGE shortly after.. You talk about lies and deceipt.. BINGO.. They didnt' even offer refunds for people that bought the expansion and played it for a week..
PS.. I was long gone from SWG before all hell broke loose
That is just stupid. The PC Gamer article states that the game will be like 6-7 times bigger than the original KOTOR. So what is the problem of playing if you are playing new good content?
6 times KOTOR is like 6x$40 = 240 ... you can buy the box and sub for a year (if they charge standard rate).
Well said, totally agree.
Something new? COUCH..
Many game reviews have already said this is nothing more then KoTOR 3 with an internet twist.. ONE reviewer that has actually played a demo of SWTOR said the graphics and UI is directly from "Mass Effect"... COUGH..
There is nothing new here by Bioware.. It's just KoTOR relabed..
And both KoTOR 1 and 2 were absolutely amazing. So what exactly is the problem either way?
The problem here my friend is the deception of passing off a SPORPG (single player online RPG) as a true MMO.. If you like any of the KoTOR's that is fine.. It's a 1 time charge game, but to deceive the public just to milk more pockets from people expecting a MMO is just wrong.. I do have reason to be hesitant.. afteral, the GM's incharge are the SAME decieptful boys from SWG.. (which we all know was all about deciept).. Heck, look what they do with the expansion.. SELLING it , knowing damn well they were implimenting the NGE shortly after.. You talk about lies and deceipt.. BINGO.. They didnt' even offer refunds for people that bought the expansion and played it for a week..
PS.. I was long gone from SWG before all hell broke loose
That is just stupid. The PC Gamer article states that the game will be like 6-7 times bigger than the original KOTOR. So what is the problem of playing if you are playing new good content?
6 times KOTOR is like 6x$40 = 240 ... you can buy the box and sub for a year (if they charge standard rate).
or you could buy the game and sub it for a year at hmm $50 + (11 x $15) = $215. only you still have to keep paying right... oh noes.. lot to pay for a single player online game - at least guild wars was free once you bought the game itself.
One thing I learned about people discribing the size of something online.. It's never as big as people say.. lmao.. So if it's 6 or 7 times bigger, it's safe to say it's really only 3 or 4 times bigger.. lmaoo.. But hey, it's your money (ooops I mean parents money) so buy or "rent" what you want.. Have fun
I don't know what's going on here.
Well, from the sounds of it, I'm guessing this will be an instance-heavy game. The easiest way to make this work is to have the major quest stuff instanced and have an open world outside of that. I agree that the whole things seems improbable, but I think that it will very likely work. They have a crapload of funds from Lucas Arts (and a lot of voice actors, writers and designers they can draw from), have game studio with a lot of experience but that looks at MMOs at a new angle. What I think Bioware is attempting to do is focus more on the "RPG" half of the game. I actually think that that type of perspective can change the industry for the better.
Actually, they were talking about contents. The game will be the equivalent in contents to 6-10 time Kotor or if you prefer doing Kotor 3 to 10 at the same time. And with 40+ novel worth of spoken dialog, 200 hours of story by class with good/neutral/evil choices and 8 classes, I believe it.
For comparison, Kotor had 20-30 hour of story, 3 classes and 1 storyline for everyone with good/neutral/evil choices.