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Newbie Question: Stealth Bombers

KhaunsharKhaunshar Member UncommonPosts: 349

Hi there,

 

I started EVE for the first time ever 2 days ago, so far I mainly train Learning Skills and played through the 3x 10 Mission Tutorials. As a Minmatar, I already got my Rifter set up and fitted decently, so I am now looking towards actually going towards a career/role.

Seeing as I am impossibly far behind everyone else, I guess I can pretty much rule out any kind of larger ships or more important/bigger role, so I set my sights on eventually flying/fighting in a stealth bomber, preferably in larger engagements. My question is: How feasible is it to actually learn the proper skills and everything with a real newbie char? I am really interested in the cloaking stuff, but Black Ops etc. is just too far away, so is the concept of playing the stealth bomber role doable enough?

From EVEMon it looks like about a month or so for most skills to be done, or is there some hidden major problem/timesink?

Thanks in advance :)

Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by Khaunshar
    Hi there,
     
    I started EVE for the first time ever 2 days ago, so far I mainly train Learning Skills and played through the 3x 10 Mission Tutorials. As a Minmatar, I already got my Rifter set up and fitted decently, so I am now looking towards actually going towards a career/role.
    Seeing as I am impossibly far behind everyone else, I guess I can pretty much rule out any kind of larger ships or more important/bigger role, so I set my sights on eventually flying/fighting in a stealth bomber, preferably in larger engagements. My question is: How feasible is it to actually learn the proper skills and everything with a real newbie char? I am really interested in the cloaking stuff, but Black Ops etc. is just too far away, so is the concept of playing the stealth bomber role doable enough?
    From EVEMon it looks like about a month or so for most skills to be done, or is there some hidden major problem/timesink?
    Thanks in advance :)

    Hrm...I would not reccomend you to fly a SB as a newbie. While oppinions will disagree on their role and use(they suck after last changes, imo). They are definately specialized ships with very specific use and require lots and lots of skills to fly it decently - far more than other T2 frigates.

    CCP made the SB close range fighters leaving them with almost non existant form of defense. You need a lot of missile skills to make the ship effective.

    BlackOps are not really working since their introduction 1 year and a half ago...great on paper, fail in real.

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864
    Originally posted by Khaunshar


    Hi there,
     
    I started EVE for the first time ever 2 days ago, so far I mainly train Learning Skills and played through the 3x 10 Mission Tutorials. As a Minmatar, I already got my Rifter set up and fitted decently, so I am now looking towards actually going towards a career/role.
    Seeing as I am impossibly far behind everyone else, I guess I can pretty much rule out any kind of larger ships or more important/bigger role, so I set my sights on eventually flying/fighting in a stealth bomber, preferably in larger engagements. My question is: How feasible is it to actually learn the proper skills and everything with a real newbie char? I am really interested in the cloaking stuff, but Black Ops etc. is just too far away, so is the concept of playing the stealth bomber role doable enough?
    From EVEMon it looks like about a month or so for most skills to be done, or is there some hidden major problem/timesink?
    Thanks in advance :)

     

    Hmmm Im a bit confused on one thing.

     

    Why can't you pick the normal cruisers/large ships like you mention in your post?

    Even as a new player, you're totally free to play basically anything you want. That's the beauty of EVE! :)

    Im also a newbie... and I started my training towards whatever I wanted... it honestly doesn't matter. Don't let other people who have so much more knowledge and experience deter you - play whatever you enjoy that'll make you happy... If you had to train every skill point in the game it would take a character approx 26 years...... you aren't that far behind and a new player can go right in, train for their ship, save up money, etc just like everyone :) 

     

    Hopefully that helps - unfortunately because Im still a noob I know nothing about Black Ops/Cloaking ships, etc.. but I don't want you to feel pigeonholed. 

  • BlueJaegerBlueJaeger Member UncommonPosts: 3

    First, no one is "impossibly far behind". Just set your sights on an attainable goal.

    Stealth bombers are certainly an attainable goal, but simply being able to fly a ship doesn't mean you can fly it well. (You will hear that many times, in case that is the first.) And you don't need to fly advanced ships to be useful in a gang/fleet. Set yourself more immediate goals, like learning how to be a good tackler. That is within the ability of anyone who can fly a Rifter. Get yourself an income and join the militia if you don't know where else to go. They will bring you up to speed on PVP.

     

  • KhaunsharKhaunshar Member UncommonPosts: 349

    Thanks a lot.

    The reason why I wanted to go Stealth Bomber, aside from the concept intrigueing me, is because EVEMon has the larger ships (not talking Destroyers, I am talking Battleships, Carriers or some such) at huuge training times, and thats if I just want to fly my own races things. I suppose you can add weeks on top of that if trying to fly cross-faction, which as Minmatar is supposedly the way to go, since I keep hearing Minmatar small frigates and destroyers rock, yet larger ones suck.

    I know its not just about flying, though I didnt know you need that much more of a skill investment to really use a stealth bomber, compared to normal stuff. I ll check into that, but thanks for the warning anyway :)

    As far as Tackler goes, its the stepping stone into PvP from what I hear, but its not something I can see myself doing as my main role forever, thus I needed a goal slightly more lofty :)

    Great replies though, I ll have to play with EVEMon a little bit and see what other options there. But if larger ships arent out of question anyway, as you suggest.... is there anything like a carrier that makes sense in the game? Launching swarms of fighter drones sounds like a fun (and costly!) task to me.

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864
    Originally posted by Khaunshar


    Thanks a lot.
    The reason why I wanted to go Stealth Bomber, aside from the concept intrigueing me, is because EVEMon has the larger ships (not talking Destroyers, I am talking Battleships, Carriers or some such) at huuge training times, and thats if I just want to fly my own races things. I suppose you can add weeks on top of that if trying to fly cross-faction, which as Minmatar is supposedly the way to go, since I keep hearing Minmatar small frigates and destroyers rock, yet larger ones suck.
    I know its not just about flying, though I didnt know you need that much more of a skill investment to really use a stealth bomber, compared to normal stuff. I ll check into that, but thanks for the warning anyway :)
    As far as Tackler goes, its the stepping stone into PvP from what I hear, but its not something I can see myself doing as my main role forever, thus I needed a goal slightly more lofty :)
    Great replies though, I ll have to play with EVEMon a little bit and see what other options there. But if larger ships arent out of question anyway, as you suggest.... is there anything like a carrier that makes sense in the game? Launching swarms of fighter drones sounds like a fun (and costly!) task to me.

     

    The Dominix is a nasty ship w/ lots of Drones if that's what you're into

    http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Dominix

    Very nice - but its a Gallente ship and not Minmatar (not that it REALLY matters)

    And yes, it does take some time to fly ANY ship you want. This is the same with anything you do (whether its mining, shooting, etc)

     

    The best thing for you to do IMO is to figure out what you want to fly, and start from there. Obviously build yourself up (you will more or less have to do that anyways) and then figure out what role you want to perform and what you want to do long term. Are you a PVPer? A lover or a fighter? Do you enjoy mining? Industrial stuff (moving cargo from one station to the next). Literally EVE has a million different things you can do depending on what your focus is... theres no shortage (which is also a bit overwhelming) so start out by figuring out what you want to do for the long haul and train accordingly. Of course this can always change, but it should give you a good basis to start with.

    Hopefully that helps :) 

    EDIT: Incase no one told you, you can train skills to make your training times go faster...They are called learning skills and they're pretty important if you want to play for the long haul. I kinda mix them up a little but I try to get at least lvl 3 in them all.

    Here's a list, and something that should help you starting out:

    http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Learning_skills_overview

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by Khaunshar
    Thanks a lot.
    The reason why I wanted to go Stealth Bomber, aside from the concept intrigueing me, is because EVEMon has the larger ships (not talking Destroyers, I am talking Battleships, Carriers or some such) at huuge training times, and thats if I just want to fly my own races things. I suppose you can add weeks on top of that if trying to fly cross-faction, which as Minmatar is supposedly the way to go, since I keep hearing Minmatar small frigates and destroyers rock, yet larger ones suck.
    I know its not just about flying, though I didnt know you need that much more of a skill investment to really use a stealth bomber, compared to normal stuff. I ll check into that, but thanks for the warning anyway :)
    As far as Tackler goes, its the stepping stone into PvP from what I hear, but its not something I can see myself doing as my main role forever, thus I needed a goal slightly more lofty :)
    Great replies though, I ll have to play with EVEMon a little bit and see what other options there. But if larger ships arent out of question anyway, as you suggest.... is there anything like a carrier that makes sense in the game? Launching swarms of fighter drones sounds like a fun (and costly!) task to me.

    Smaller ship you fly, more skills you need to fly the ship, and I mean to fly, not just have the skills to sit in one.
    3 months skilling for an interceptor is equal to about 7 months of skilling for a battleship.

    Then there is also an insurance and ISK part for consideration. Better to learn to PVP in cheap ships.

    Minmatars have decent ships across all their sizes. I wouldn't be worried about cross-training until you can fly at least 1 ship very well. There is no point in being lousy pilot of 8 different ships.

    The tricky part is two different tank types of minmatar ships(and somewhat their dual weapon system). Some ships are meant to armor tank - Rupture, Munin, Hurricane, Typhoon while shield tank suits to others Jaguar, Vagabond, Cyclone, Sleipnir/Claymore, Maelstrom.

    If I can advice you, pick an interceptors or Rupture.

    Interceptros are the most valuable frigate, not to say all of ship types. They offer grat survivability and you wil never regret you can fly one. Easy to skill up and you have a lot of ships easy to train upwards - assault ships, EAS, SB, CovOps.

    Rupture - very nice T1 cruiser, effective ISK wise, it can dish out very nice DPS and allows you to 'kill more', good for solo. You get a solid skill base for Typhoon later on.

    You can surely focus your skilling towards large ships such as battleships and carriers but those ships are not usable for solo(carrier can't use gates) and you need a lot of piloting and character skills to fly it properly.

  • TaramTaram Member CommonPosts: 1,700

    Personally I give you the same advice I give anyone who asks me that is minmatar:

    Train to fly the Rupture

    Fit a good buffer tank (shield or armor) on it, fit it with a MWD... train for T2 guns... train your gunnery support and then train for T2 missiles.  You can get over 510DPS out of a properly fitted rupture with a 20,000+hp buffer tank and have the ship tooling around at aproximately 1800m/s.   It's a VERY nasty ship and very deadly, even to 4+yr vets.  It'll take some time and some skills to get to that level but even at very basic levels it's not hard to get solid DPS , solid speed and a solid tank on a rupture.  As your skills increase it's strength just increases right along with you.

    Once you can get that kind of performance out of a ruppy it's time to train for T2 ships ;)

    Enjoy :)

    image
    "A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus Member Posts: 808

    If you want to fly a stealth bomber because you love the concept then my advice to you is to go ahead and do it. No matter what role you pick it's gonna take some training so you may as well go for what you want at first instead of what others tell you. My other advice when it comes to bombers is this, bombers are support dps and not meant to be solo ships though you can solo some stuff with them depending on situation and tactics. Also join a corp that utilizes stealth bombers and other covert ops ships on a regular basis.

    If you wish to train for battlehships and even carriers then set those as long term goals but don't look at them as higher end progression and more powerful. These classes of ships are meant to be support and seige type of tools. Fly what's fun and not what everyone says is best.

    Good choice picking Minmatar, some say it's the hard mode race. Don't know if I agree or disagree with that or not, always been Minnie myself so I don't any better.

    Edit:

    Tarams Rupture advice is solid, I still love flying my autocannon ruppy. Some say shes an ugly ship but I love her, looks like an old school pirate ship from the rear.

  • KhaunsharKhaunshar Member UncommonPosts: 349

    Thanks a lot for the awesome advice :)

    After playing around a bit with EVEMon, and just getting my first Loyalty-Point +2 implants, times are starting to look a bit more manageable.

    The Rupture thing is interesting, I just worry it is going to set back my stealth bomber plans a lot. After checking out a few missions and getting my ass handed to me in my Rifter once, I plan on doing things like this: Go for a decent Cruiser (Rupture really sounds good) but try and keep the skills to a minimum that will not tie into Stealth Bomber flying later on.

    I am a group/team/guild player anyway, so not being a soloable option is no problem at all. I actually imagine SBs are most useful in small packs with a tackler (well, everyone can use a tackler:P)

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus Member Posts: 808
    Originally posted by Khaunshar


    Thanks a lot for the awesome advice :)
    After playing around a bit with EVEMon, and just getting my first Loyalty-Point +2 implants, times are starting to look a bit more manageable.
    The Rupture thing is interesting, I just worry it is going to set back my stealth bomber plans a lot. After checking out a few missions and getting my ass handed to me in my Rifter once, I plan on doing things like this: Go for a decent Cruiser (Rupture really sounds good) but try and keep the skills to a minimum that will not tie into Stealth Bomber flying later on.
    I am a group/team/guild player anyway, so not being a soloable option is no problem at all. I actually imagine SBs are most useful in small packs with a tackler (well, everyone can use a tackler:P)

    A basic Ruppy setup is cheap and fairly easy on the skills. Tech 2 guns do make a bigg difference in the performance of the ship but good named tech 1 guns work very well. If you train for the tech 2 guns then your bomber plans do take a hit, all that time will be spent on training up projectile weapon skills when you need missile skills for a bomber. Don't forget it's not just the gun skill it self, it's also the supporting skills foreach weapon type.

     

    I still say go for what's fun first. If you don't like it then you can always train other skills. Why train for something you don't want to do first anways ? Just make the game tedious and boring. My opinion anyways.

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864

     I was wondering this myself... and considering going this route as well.

     

    Im also a bit fan of EWAR (at least on paper) so Im in the middle of training that up as well.

    The Covert Ops ships look awesome too, although Im not too sure how practical they are - but for now I am just doing what I enjoy. As Lord mentioned above me, do whatever you enjoy and worry about the rest later. If you don't like a specific skill set, you're always welcome to change it up. I'd recommend getting your core skills (learning skills) first - at least a good portion of them before you move on to bigger/better things. Thats just my opinion but so far its been good to me. :) 

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus Member Posts: 808

    Another option if you are just looking to get into a ship to earn cash in why not try an assault frigate over a cruiser ? These little ships are very tough and can put out some very good dps and are very useful in pvp with less training time than decent cruiser skills. You need frigate 5 to fly bombers anyways. Also the electronics frigates and interceptors are always fun little ships to kick around in. Many options in the frigate class ship.

    Not sure how practical cov ops ships are Cammy ? Warping around stealthed and probing out targets whether they are pvp or pve is always useful and practical.

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Another option if you are just looking to get into a ship to earn cash in why not try an assault frigate over a cruiser ? These little ships are very tough and can put out some very good dps and are very useful in pvp with less training time than decent cruiser skills. You need frigate 5 to fly bombers anyways. Also the electronics frigates and interceptors are always fun little ships to kick around in. Many options in the frigate class ship.
    Not sure how practical cov ops ships are Cammy ? Warping around stealthed and probing out targets whether they are pvp or pve is always useful and practical.

     

    Hey LordMonkus :)

     

    I appreciate your feedback as always! Steathing around sounds awesome to me and I think Im gonna take your advice here as well (even though it was directed at the OP) :p Think Im gonna train up in Frigates and use those for the time being until I get to the point I can use the really nasty ships. 

    One question though... what's an interceptor? Is that the EWAR type ships? 

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus Member Posts: 808

    Interceptors are for tackling, every race has 2, one for dps and the other for longer range tackle with ship bonus.

    Electronics Attack Frigates are the EW support frigates. Different races ships do different kinds of EW, caldari jam and gallente sensor dampen.

    Assault Frigates are slower than normal frigate but take alot more punishment and put out alot more dps

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Interceptors are for tackling, every race has 2, one for dps and the other for longer range tackle with ship bonus.
    Electronics Attack Frigates are the EW support frigates. Different races ships do different kinds of EW, caldari jam and gallente sensor dampen.
    Assault Frigates are slower than normal frigate but take alot more punishment and put out alot more dps

     

    Heh.. this will be a stupid question....

    What is "tackling"? :) 

     

  • darkraptordarkraptor Member Posts: 178
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Another option if you are just looking to get into a ship to earn cash in why not try an assault frigate over a cruiser ? These little ships are very tough and can put out some very good dps and are very useful in pvp with less training time than decent cruiser skills. You need frigate 5 to fly bombers anyways. Also the electronics frigates and interceptors are always fun little ships to kick around in. Many options in the frigate class ship.
    Not sure how practical cov ops ships are Cammy ? Warping around stealthed and probing out targets whether they are pvp or pve is always useful and practical.

     

    Assault frigates are bad. They are useless in pvp in general, but have some use to run level 2 and 3 DED's in. They are not as good at tackle and they pop just as easy as an interceptor. May as well fly a frigate if you're not flying an inty. Especially a rifter, which is the fastest frigate and why it is suggested.

    Stick with an interceptor or electronic attack frigate.

    To the poster who asked what the interceptor does, they fly extremely fast and tackle (and survive because they are so fast). They have bonuses so that even though they fit a MWD, their signature radius isn't huge. Also they have fast enough scan resolution in pvp that you can snag people's pods, which is a difference between taking someone off the battlefield and letting them come, back, especially in 00.

    Electronic attack frigates are like mini-recon ships, but they have significant bonuses in the form of propulsion or whatever bonuses.  Example: Minmatar's has a bonus to web range and gallente's has a bonus to warp scrambler range, letting you web ;20KM  or warp disrupt at 30KM ish with the gallente.

    Frigates are great because they are inexpensive. Stealth bombers and other T2 frigates are basically about 20 mil or maybe 30-40mil equipped. So if you lose one, no big deal. Meanwhile cruiser level T2 ships run anywhere from 70-170M approx. Remember that T2 ships only reimburse basically the equivalent of the T1.  So lose a 170M ship, and you get back maybe 7mil from insurance, etc.

    /rant

  • qazymanqazyman Member Posts: 1,785
    Originally posted by Cammy

    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Interceptors are for tackling, every race has 2, one for dps and the other for longer range tackle with ship bonus.
    Electronics Attack Frigates are the EW support frigates. Different races ships do different kinds of EW, caldari jam and gallente sensor dampen.
    Assault Frigates are slower than normal frigate but take alot more punishment and put out alot more dps

     

    Heh.. this will be a stupid question....

    What is "tackling"? :) 

     



     

    Using a small fast ship (any ship really) to get in close and warp scramble and webifiy a ship while other ships destroy it.

    without this ship the target ship can warp away. Also, it allows DPS ships not to have to equip tackle mod's in there mid slots.

  • darkraptordarkraptor Member Posts: 178
    Originally posted by qazyman

    Originally posted by Cammy

    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Interceptors are for tackling, every race has 2, one for dps and the other for longer range tackle with ship bonus.
    Electronics Attack Frigates are the EW support frigates. Different races ships do different kinds of EW, caldari jam and gallente sensor dampen.
    Assault Frigates are slower than normal frigate but take alot more punishment and put out alot more dps

     

    Heh.. this will be a stupid question....

    What is "tackling"? :) 

     



     

    Using a small fast ship (any ship really) to get in close and warp scramble and webifiy a ship while other ships destroy it.

    without this ship the target ship can warp away. Also, it allows DPS ships not to have to equip tackle mod's in there mid slots.

    Mostly correct, but some more information:

    The thing is, warp scrambling, warp disrupting, and webifying have entirely different purposes.

    To clarify for the newbie folks: warp scramble shuts down a microwarpdrive (aka move real fast), warp disruptors have much further range (but on small ships can use a lot of capacitor and do not shut down microwarpdrive), and webifiers slow the target down. 

    interceptor + disruptor = ~28KM disruption. scramble = ~10KM

    electronic attack frigate + disruptor = ~30KM+ disruption.

    gallente recon ship: 40KM+ disruption

    minmatar recon ship: 40KM+ webifier (web)

    Here's some common scenarios that can come up in a fleet where each of these comes into play:

    A)big ship jumps into system that you are camping, tacklers get on him with webifiers and scramblers to blow him up. He runs back to the gate and jumps through (because those who are attacking him cannot; there is a 30 second delay after aggression). If the webs/scrambles are fast (and sufficient dps), you'll stop him before he reaches the gate.

    B) xyz fast ship (interceptor, etc) tries to get a tackle on an equally fast ship, which probably is baiting you and preparing to eat you up. However, you have a warp scrambler, so they can't get away. So when you catch up, both of you are caught, buf if you have a fleet in this scenario then you probably have backup. Meanwhile, if you have a web  and a microwarpdrive, you can probably stay outside your targets range (thus not being able to be shot at) while still warp scrambling your target, effectively stopping them from being able to get away or to stop you.

    Webs have some uses only, and that's about it. Webs have been nerfed significantly (bar useless on fast ships and not even needed on large ships) so they aren't used as much lately.

    Average interceptor speed (no overdrive): 5K/s. Average assault frigate speed: 3-3.5K/s. Average vagabond speed: 3-4K/s. Interceptors tend to lock on faster than recons, of course. as it is a smaller ship. Can an inty run perma-MWD + disruptor + orbiting/etc? Not without some rigs or faction/better stuff, as opposed to just T2.

    /rant

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus Member Posts: 808
    Originally posted by darkraptor

    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Another option if you are just looking to get into a ship to earn cash in why not try an assault frigate over a cruiser ? These little ships are very tough and can put out some very good dps and are very useful in pvp with less training time than decent cruiser skills. You need frigate 5 to fly bombers anyways. Also the electronics frigates and interceptors are always fun little ships to kick around in. Many options in the frigate class ship.
    Not sure how practical cov ops ships are Cammy ? Warping around stealthed and probing out targets whether they are pvp or pve is always useful and practical.

     

    Assault frigates are bad. They are useless in pvp in general, but have some use to run level 2 and 3 DED's in. They are not as good at tackle and they pop just as easy as an interceptor. May as well fly a frigate if you're not flying an inty. Especially a rifter, which is the fastest frigate and why it is suggested.

    Stick with an interceptor or electronic attack frigate.

    To the poster who asked what the interceptor does, they fly extremely fast and tackle (and survive because they are so fast). They have bonuses so that even though they fit a MWD, their signature radius isn't huge. Also they have fast enough scan resolution in pvp that you can snag people's pods, which is a difference between taking someone off the battlefield and letting them come, back, especially in 00.

    Electronic attack frigates are like mini-recon ships, but they have significant bonuses in the form of propulsion or whatever bonuses.  Example: Minmatar's has a bonus to web range and gallente's has a bonus to warp scrambler range, letting you web ;20KM  or warp disrupt at 30KM ish with the gallente.

    Frigates are great because they are inexpensive. Stealth bombers and other T2 frigates are basically about 20 mil or maybe 30-40mil equipped. So if you lose one, no big deal. Meanwhile cruiser level T2 ships run anywhere from 70-170M approx. Remember that T2 ships only reimburse basically the equivalent of the T1.  So lose a 170M ship, and you get back maybe 7mil from insurance, etc.

    Im not gonna get into a debate with you over the usefullness of assault ships but they are far from useless and or bad.

    You do realize we're talking about some relatively short term goals for some new players here right ? No one is suggesting they train into a 100mil plus HAC. You talk about 30-40 mil as being nothing and to an older player it isnt but these are new players and I am pretty sure they don't even want to think about losing that much on one single ship at this time in game.

     

  • qazymanqazyman Member Posts: 1,785
    Originally posted by darkraptor

    Originally posted by qazyman

    Originally posted by Cammy

    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    Interceptors are for tackling, every race has 2, one for dps and the other for longer range tackle with ship bonus.
    Electronics Attack Frigates are the EW support frigates. Different races ships do different kinds of EW, caldari jam and gallente sensor dampen.
    Assault Frigates are slower than normal frigate but take alot more punishment and put out alot more dps

     

    Heh.. this will be a stupid question....

    What is "tackling"? :) 

     



     

    Using a small fast ship (any ship really) to get in close and warp scramble and webifiy a ship while other ships destroy it.

    without this ship the target ship can warp away. Also, it allows DPS ships not to have to equip tackle mod's in there mid slots.

    Mostly correct, but some more information:

    The thing is, warp scrambling, warp disrupting, and webifying have entirely different purposes.

    To clarify for the newbie folks: warp scramble shuts down a microwarpdrive (aka move real fast), warp disruptors have much further range (but on small ships can use a lot of capacitor and do not shut down microwarpdrive), and webifiers slow the target down. 

    interceptor + disruptor = ~28KM disruption. scramble = ~10KM

    electronic attack frigate + disruptor = ~30KM+ disruption.

    gallente recon ship: 40KM+ disruption

    minmatar recon ship: 40KM+ webifier (web)

    Here's some common scenarios that can come up in a fleet where each of these comes into play:

    A)big ship jumps into system that you are camping, tacklers get on him with webifiers and scramblers to blow him up. He runs back to the gate and jumps through (because those who are attacking him cannot; there is a 30 second delay after aggression). If the webs/scrambles are fast (and sufficient dps), you'll stop him before he reaches the gate.

    B) xyz fast ship (interceptor, etc) tries to get a tackle on an equally fast ship, which probably is baiting you and preparing to eat you up. However, you have a warp scrambler, so they can't get away. So when you catch up, both of you are caught, buf if you have a fleet in this scenario then you probably have backup. Meanwhile, if you have a web  and a microwarpdrive, you can probably stay outside your targets range (thus not being able to be shot at) while still warp scrambling your target, effectively stopping them from being able to get away or to stop you.

    Webs have some uses only, and that's about it. Webs have been nerfed significantly (bar useless on fast ships and not even needed on large ships) so they aren't used as much lately.

    Average interceptor speed (no overdrive): 5K/s. Average assault frigate speed: 3-3.5K/s. Average vagabond speed: 3-4K/s. Interceptors tend to lock on faster than recons, of course. as it is a smaller ship. Can an inty run perma-MWD + disruptor + orbiting/etc? Not without some rigs or faction/better stuff, as opposed to just T2.



     

    And they say EvE has no more depth than other games.

  • darkraptordarkraptor Member Posts: 178
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus

    Originally posted by darkraptor

    Assault frigates are bad. They are useless in pvp in general, but have some use to run level 2 and 3 DED's in. They are not as good at tackle and they pop just as easy as an interceptor. May as well fly a frigate if you're not flying an inty. Especially a rifter, which is the fastest frigate and why it is suggested.

    Stick with an interceptor or electronic attack frigate.

    To the poster who asked what the interceptor does, they fly extremely fast and tackle (and survive because they are so fast). They have bonuses so that even though they fit a MWD, their signature radius isn't huge. Also they have fast enough scan resolution in pvp that you can snag people's pods, which is a difference between taking someone off the battlefield and letting them come, back, especially in 00.

    Electronic attack frigates are like mini-recon ships, but they have significant bonuses in the form of propulsion or whatever bonuses.  Example: Minmatar's has a bonus to web range and gallente's has a bonus to warp scrambler range, letting you web ;20KM  or warp disrupt at 30KM ish with the gallente.

    Frigates are great because they are inexpensive. Stealth bombers and other T2 frigates are basically about 20 mil or maybe 30-40mil equipped. So if you lose one, no big deal. Meanwhile cruiser level T2 ships run anywhere from 70-170M approx. Remember that T2 ships only reimburse basically the equivalent of the T1.  So lose a 170M ship, and you get back maybe 7mil from insurance, etc.

    Im not gonna get into a debate with you over the usefullness of assault ships but they are far from useless and or bad.

    You do realize we're talking about some relatively short term goals for some new players here right ? No one is suggesting they train into a 100mil plus HAC. You talk about 30-40 mil as being nothing and to an older player it isnt but these are new players and I am pretty sure they don't even want to think about losing that much on one single ship at this time in game.

     

     To make 30-40M as a newbie involves 2 things:

     

    1: don't be an idiot, research some ways to make isk

    2: join a corp (guild).

    After that you'll usually have a ton more fun, and people will pay for it for you.

    On a brand new char you can make tons salvaging and mission running and such.

    /rant

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