Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship. The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat. This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
The different viewpoints on this issue are actually fascinating. I can precisely remember the moments when I knew I was going to quit WoW and LotRO... both times it was immediately after I had obtained some really nice piece of gear and I realized that I was just going to be doing the same thing over and over again.
I can also remember the moment when I realized that I was hooked on Eve forever:
I was maybe 6 months old and I got podded while trying to sneak a control tower and other POS equipment out into syndicate. I had spent around half a billion (everything I had at that point) on the equipment, and when I got podded I had very expensive (at the time) implants in my head.
I lost everything. It felt like getting kicked in the teeth.. but I vowed that one day I would avenge my losses, and also felt a kind of freedom. There was nowhere to go but up from that point, and I learned from my mistakes. I realized it would take YEARS to get strong enough to even consider seeking revenge.. and that is exactly the kind of thing that has kept me hooked on the game for half a decade.
I can very clearly see both sides of the argument here. I can see how many people might not find the "intensity" of risking it all very enjoyable.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
It's fascinating, but only the risk element is exciting. If I have to grind for years before my next exciting moment, or even just another 6 months, I'll be playing something else long before then.
I can get the same adrenalin level in Quake Wars within about 15 minutes of play. I can get it again and again every 15 minutes of every night. I can keep it going for hours at a time as long for as my adrenal gland is still physically able to produce it.
Eve is too slow. I don't mind if i play Jumpgate, run out of things to do and then move on to another game. I don't judge how good a game is by the amount of months I am subscribed to it.
In fact as soon as it starts to become a timesink, I cancel my sub on the spot. If restarting from scratch was something I wished to do, I would. I would create another character and begin again. No need to delete my previous accomplishments just for that little pleasure.
I can see why people enjoy the heavy penalties. It keeps a tired game intresting. It's like Hardcore mode in Diablo. But I'm not looking to dedicate that much of my life to any one game myself. When I've seen it all before, it's time for me to play something I haven't seen before instead of repeating it all again.
I don't judge how good a game is by the amount of months I am subscribed to it.
I'd have to say, especially from a developer's standpoint, this is actually a GREAT measure of how good a game is.
For me as well.
After half a decade I still log into eve sometimes feeling like a kid on christmas morning. That makes it a pretty good game in my book.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I don't judge how good a game is by the amount of months I am subscribed to it.
I'd have to say, especially from a developer's standpoint, this is actually a GREAT measure of how good a game is.
For me as well.
After half a decade I still log into eve sometimes feeling like a kid on christmas morning. That makes it a pretty good game in my book.
I wander in and out of Eve. Its fun to go back and play with my fleet, run a few missions. and such. But because of the harsh death penalty, I'm very conservative about what I do. Too many variables are out of my control. From connection issues, power outages and server crashes. In other games, those don't have nearly the dire impact.
In case you haven't been told or know.. People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage? If JGE is anything like Eve without the PvP penalty, I wouldn't be surprised to see 33%, if not more, of Eve's server population drop like a prom dress.. That is one drawing point games like WoW have in concerns of PvP.. ONLY rewards are possible for PvP, with NO penalty.. If I spent the better 1/2 of the hour mining raw materials ONLY to lose it to a pair of snot nosed teenages that like to gang up and pirate weaker ships.. NO thanks..
Wow, GREAT reasoning there, and last time i checked isnt Jumpgate PvP-ORiENTED?
I will laugh so hard if JGE has respawn locations like WoW...
Only rewards = Drawing point for a game? You dont know what youre talking about, son
EVE has safe systems and unsafe systems.. It works. (if you dont count the suicide gankers)
So yea, if this game comes out with zero penalty for dieing, I wont be touching it
Have fun though, and sorry for the vent-ing :P im really baffled at you thinking a game is "fun" with zero penalty to dieing
See, EVE is a GREAT adrenaline rush in fights, and guess what? You actually have to step back and think before you do something, because if you lose, you'll have to rebuild.
Anyways, the thing is, JGE will without penalties, just like WoW, become a zerg-game
People die, but they jump right back in battle, and any kind of player-faction-rivalries will become so tedious and long-drawn and zerged up that im getting migraines just thinking about it.
Just saying... And i wont be saying i told you so, if they do, because I will be busy playing EVE.
Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship. The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat. This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second.
Not true, you must not have played EVE a long time. Or you just didn't PvP much, or freight much.. What DID you do exactly?
See, once you get comfy in EVE there are ALWAYS ways to move stuff safely around, no matter what
Get into a player corporation who has the ability to jump stuff around, and voila, no more reason to do stupid things like freighting stuff through low security areas.
Furthermore, once you get to a point where you are comfortable in PvP, or you are ganged up with people whom you have trained to work in a team with, so that you all know what to do, and can reduce your losses:
Then you can start putting on your good gear, just because why wouldnt you? You already obtained it, its yours
Or you could just sell it and build some hard earned cash, which you cant lose no matter what :P
That wasnt so hard now, was it?
EVE rewards those who takes steps to insure their own safety, and easily punishes those who don't
I have never lost a blockade runner (which most of the time has billions of ISK worth of cargo)
Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship. The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat. This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second.
Not true, you must not have played EVE a long time. Or you just didn't PvP much, or freight much.. What DID you do exactly?
See, once you get comfy in EVE there are ALWAYS ways to move stuff safely around, no matter what
Get into a player corporation who has the ability to jump stuff around, and voila, no more reason to do stupid things like freighting stuff through low security areas.
Furthermore, once you get to a point where you are comfortable in PvP, or you are ganged up with people whom you have trained to work in a team with, so that you all know what to do, and can reduce your losses:
Then you can start putting on your good gear, just because why wouldnt you? You already obtained it, its yours
Or you could just sell it and build some hard earned cash, which you cant lose no matter what :P
That wasnt so hard now, was it?
EVE rewards those who takes steps to insure their own safety, and easily punishes those who don't
I have never lost a blockade runner (which most of the time has billions of ISK worth of cargo)
I'm coming up on four years in Eve... As I've stated *repeatedly* I collect battleships, run missions and sometimes mine abit. I have ZERO interest in PvP. Which is why I stay in an NPC corp(can't be war dec'ed) and stay in high sec. By the way, I can fly all racial battleships( SL5 each) and have my own barges(Cov's, I see no need for hulks in high sec) why would I need a corp? Simply because you enjoy PvP doesn't mean that everyone does.
Well, the risk aspect is not that huge issue in EVE. It all depends what you fly.
You can be effective and have fun PvPing in frigates as well as in battleship. And everything in between and above.
Alliances and corporations add a lot more than just access to 0.0 sector. However, if you do enjoy soloing the game, it is perfectly ok, but in my opinion you miss a lot.
"My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second."
I think, just my opinion, that EVE would be a pretty dead game, if they allowed no risk PvP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Huge learning curve that takes a ton of time to overcome followed by huge time sinks to skill up only to have everything stolen from you by snot nose immature gankers is why I do not play Eve. I am not 12, I do not have tons of time to throw away. I tend to game to avoid the trapppings of a really crappy reality. I like a game where I can go in after a hard days works and not have to worry too much about some bastard trying to take my goods and money all the time like in the real world. Reality is harsh, but games are not about reality, they're about fantasy.
Huge learning curve that takes a ton of time to overcome followed by huge time sinks to skill up only to have everything stolen from you by snot nose immature gankers is why I do not play Eve. I am not 12, I do not have tons of time to throw away. I tend to game to avoid the trapppings of a really crappy reality. I like a game where I can go in after a hard days works and not have to worry too much about some bastard trying to take my goods and money all the time like in the real world. Reality is harsh, but games are not about reality, they're about fantasy.
Well, I am sorry but EVE is nothing like that. The average age of a EVE player is probably quite a bit higher than other MMOs.
And yeah, I enjoy instant gratification as well, but would not like to see a game that is very unique to be changed to something else than what made is successful. There are other games. Perhaps, Jumpgate Evolution is a better choice for you. Nothing wrong with that.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
The 'multiplayer' part of MMO to me does not equate with head to head competition. I enjoy gaming with other people without neccesarily beating on them or having them beat on me within the game world. I play shooter style games for my PvP pleasures, I have yet to find a very satisfactory PvP play within MMO games. PvP in MMO's is inherently about unbalanced combat that all too often comes out as some form of 'gank'. A 'gank' being a fight that is highly unfair to one side and is initiated by the more powerful side upon the weaker side without regard to the weaker's desire to partake of the fight.
I have no interest in FFA style MMO games or even mixed 'safe' and 'open combat' games where players can only access some desirable game feature by entering into the unsafe areas. Depending upon how JGE is finally implemented I will or wont subscribe and vote with my money. The next space MMO with fun PvE combat that allows me to share it interactively with friends without a need to PvP for any other reason than I want to enjoy the combat for its own sake will get my $$$.
My biggest concern with games that try to straddle the PvP/PvE line is that they end up being poor games for either mode. I am waiting to see how well JGE turns out while trying to be both.
My biggest concern with games that try to straddle the PvP/PvE line is that they end up being poor games for either mode. I am waiting to see how well JGE turns out while trying to be both.
Very true. Warhammer Online proved that quite clearly. They rendered defeat in PvP virtually painless in an attempt (IMO) to draw far more PvE players into it. Well, PvE players STILL hate dying even if they don't really lose anything but a little time for doing so. The cost of carebear PvP is that victory is rendered meaningless if there is no risk.
PvE players still hate PvP, and PvP fans are bored when there is no risk.
A PvP game has to be committed to PvP almost exclusively. I can see having some PvE mobs to grind in off-hours, but a good PvP game needs to have solo, party, and large-scale PvP content available.
Yes, such a PvP game would have a smaller target audience, but I personally would be fine with paying more per month for a game which was committed to a first-rate PvP experience. Double or even triple the usual rate would be fine - IF the game gave me what I wanted.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Harsh death penalty, means that the game either never moves beyond a small niche market, or most players stay in the safe areas(like high sec in Eve). Or the game eventually fails(look at shadowbane and other such gankfests).
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type point and click combat. We deserve more!
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?... WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?... WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?... WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
Actually, I started these games with UO... Left that when it became a total gankfest. I've played most of the major MMO's since then, and many of the minor ones. Some were more fun than others. Asherons call was fun, but the corpse runs and death penalty get old fast. Same with old style EQ. I suspect many people are viewing a lot of the "old school" games through rose tinted glasses. "Fun combat" means different things to different people. Look at Spellborn for example. Good graphics, interesting lore. But one risks carpel tunnel syndrome in the combat parts of the game ^^
Its too bad that the Spellborn company has gone bankrupt now, so soon after launch. WoW for all its flaws(which are legion), Is actually a good game up until level cap. Then things go down hill fast. I've been in since late beta(two 80's a 71 and a 70, and some 60's). I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun. I'm also waiting to see what JumpGate Evolution turns out to be.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?... WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun.
I went to the site with the screenshots and that game looks almost identical to WoW!
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?... WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun.
I went to the site with the screenshots and that game looks almost identical to WoW!
Alganon is one I have not been following but everyone is talking about Aion which is the same lame point and click let down that wow is except that there is more focus on pvp. When will people learn. I mean you get to the point where you realize that most companies are jumping on the band wagon. So when I look for a new game now I move on when I learn the combat is basically wow style. If I don't need to aim my shots manually and use cover I'm simply not interested any more.
HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found. Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads. PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass. I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.
It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate.. NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market.. I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together.. There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games? lmaooooooo NEXT..
If that is your argument, then you sir, are a retard.
Out of that 20 million we can discount the 6 or 7 million WOW players that just don't know any better for starters. Then we have to ask how many games, offering item loss pvp systems are actually on the market? Well of course we have EvE, but it's easy to see why some people wouldn't want to play, with a steep learning curve etc. So that leaves a large population of gamers that have come from games such as UO, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call (games which have now unfortunately either been hit with the nerf stick, or have dissappeared) who would LOVE a new game with item loss, yet have nothing available to them, apart from EvE.
Arguing along the lines of "why would any gaming company want to appeal to minority crowd" is also fairly stupid. Considering this is what CCP has done, and they are arguably one of the best companies in the MMO business today.
HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found. Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads. PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass. I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.
It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate.. NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market.. I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together.. There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games? lmaooooooo NEXT..
If that is your argument, then you sir, are a retard.
Out of that 20 million we can discount the 6 or 7 million WOW players that just don't know any better for starters. Then we have to ask how many games, offering item loss pvp systems are actually on the market? Well of course we have EvE, but it's easy to see why some people wouldn't want to play, with a steep learning curve etc. So that leaves a large population of gamers that have come from games such as UO, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call (games which have now unfortunately either been hit with the nerf stick, or have dissappeared) who would LOVE a new game with item loss, yet have nothing available to them, apart from EvE.
Arguing along the lines of "why would any gaming company want to appeal to minority crowd" is also fairly stupid. Considering this is what CCP has done, and they are arguably one of the best companies in the MMO business today.
As much as I like and admire CCP, the fact remains that they have about 300K subs. Why? Learning curve for one. The very harsh death penalty for another. There is also another fact that many people ignore. More than half of their player base never leaves high sec. Its been established that just about any game with a harsh death penalty niches itself.
There are simply a lot more of us CareBears than there are Hard Core PvP types. Given that the object of creating a MMO is to make a good return on the investors money, it just stands to reason that there would be more focus on PvE, with limited PvP. Also, keeping the death penalty down means that more(not less) people *may* take part.
Comments
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
The different viewpoints on this issue are actually fascinating. I can precisely remember the moments when I knew I was going to quit WoW and LotRO... both times it was immediately after I had obtained some really nice piece of gear and I realized that I was just going to be doing the same thing over and over again.
I can also remember the moment when I realized that I was hooked on Eve forever:
I was maybe 6 months old and I got podded while trying to sneak a control tower and other POS equipment out into syndicate. I had spent around half a billion (everything I had at that point) on the equipment, and when I got podded I had very expensive (at the time) implants in my head.
I lost everything. It felt like getting kicked in the teeth.. but I vowed that one day I would avenge my losses, and also felt a kind of freedom. There was nowhere to go but up from that point, and I learned from my mistakes. I realized it would take YEARS to get strong enough to even consider seeking revenge.. and that is exactly the kind of thing that has kept me hooked on the game for half a decade.
I can very clearly see both sides of the argument here. I can see how many people might not find the "intensity" of risking it all very enjoyable.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
The trouble with Eve is it's a one trick game.
That's the only excitement it has.
It's fascinating, but only the risk element is exciting. If I have to grind for years before my next exciting moment, or even just another 6 months, I'll be playing something else long before then.
I can get the same adrenalin level in Quake Wars within about 15 minutes of play. I can get it again and again every 15 minutes of every night. I can keep it going for hours at a time as long for as my adrenal gland is still physically able to produce it.
Eve is too slow. I don't mind if i play Jumpgate, run out of things to do and then move on to another game. I don't judge how good a game is by the amount of months I am subscribed to it.
In fact as soon as it starts to become a timesink, I cancel my sub on the spot. If restarting from scratch was something I wished to do, I would. I would create another character and begin again. No need to delete my previous accomplishments just for that little pleasure.
I can see why people enjoy the heavy penalties. It keeps a tired game intresting. It's like Hardcore mode in Diablo. But I'm not looking to dedicate that much of my life to any one game myself. When I've seen it all before, it's time for me to play something I haven't seen before instead of repeating it all again.
I'd have to say, especially from a developer's standpoint, this is actually a GREAT measure of how good a game is.
For me as well.
After half a decade I still log into eve sometimes feeling like a kid on christmas morning. That makes it a pretty good game in my book.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I'd have to say, especially from a developer's standpoint, this is actually a GREAT measure of how good a game is.
For me as well.
After half a decade I still log into eve sometimes feeling like a kid on christmas morning. That makes it a pretty good game in my book.
I wander in and out of Eve. Its fun to go back and play with my fleet, run a few missions. and such. But because of the harsh death penalty, I'm very conservative about what I do. Too many variables are out of my control. From connection issues, power outages and server crashes. In other games, those don't have nearly the dire impact.
Wow, GREAT reasoning there, and last time i checked isnt Jumpgate PvP-ORiENTED?
I will laugh so hard if JGE has respawn locations like WoW...
Only rewards = Drawing point for a game? You dont know what youre talking about, son
EVE has safe systems and unsafe systems.. It works. (if you dont count the suicide gankers)
So yea, if this game comes out with zero penalty for dieing, I wont be touching it
Have fun though, and sorry for the vent-ing :P im really baffled at you thinking a game is "fun" with zero penalty to dieing
See, EVE is a GREAT adrenaline rush in fights, and guess what? You actually have to step back and think before you do something, because if you lose, you'll have to rebuild.
Anyways, the thing is, JGE will without penalties, just like WoW, become a zerg-game
People die, but they jump right back in battle, and any kind of player-faction-rivalries will become so tedious and long-drawn and zerged up that im getting migraines just thinking about it.
Just saying... And i wont be saying i told you so, if they do, because I will be busy playing EVE.
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second.
Not true, you must not have played EVE a long time. Or you just didn't PvP much, or freight much.. What DID you do exactly?
See, once you get comfy in EVE there are ALWAYS ways to move stuff safely around, no matter what
Get into a player corporation who has the ability to jump stuff around, and voila, no more reason to do stupid things like freighting stuff through low security areas.
Furthermore, once you get to a point where you are comfortable in PvP, or you are ganged up with people whom you have trained to work in a team with, so that you all know what to do, and can reduce your losses:
Then you can start putting on your good gear, just because why wouldnt you? You already obtained it, its yours
Or you could just sell it and build some hard earned cash, which you cant lose no matter what :P
That wasnt so hard now, was it?
EVE rewards those who takes steps to insure their own safety, and easily punishes those who don't
I have never lost a blockade runner (which most of the time has billions of ISK worth of cargo)
Well, it is clear that this game is aimed at different audience than EVE . The same is also true for Black Prophecy.
So this is basically more arcade space game. It can still be fun, but will have very little common with EVE type of games.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me. Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.
My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second.
Not true, you must not have played EVE a long time. Or you just didn't PvP much, or freight much.. What DID you do exactly?
See, once you get comfy in EVE there are ALWAYS ways to move stuff safely around, no matter what
Get into a player corporation who has the ability to jump stuff around, and voila, no more reason to do stupid things like freighting stuff through low security areas.
Furthermore, once you get to a point where you are comfortable in PvP, or you are ganged up with people whom you have trained to work in a team with, so that you all know what to do, and can reduce your losses:
Then you can start putting on your good gear, just because why wouldnt you? You already obtained it, its yours
Or you could just sell it and build some hard earned cash, which you cant lose no matter what :P
That wasnt so hard now, was it?
EVE rewards those who takes steps to insure their own safety, and easily punishes those who don't
I have never lost a blockade runner (which most of the time has billions of ISK worth of cargo)
I'm coming up on four years in Eve... As I've stated *repeatedly* I collect battleships, run missions and sometimes mine abit. I have ZERO interest in PvP. Which is why I stay in an NPC corp(can't be war dec'ed) and stay in high sec. By the way, I can fly all racial battleships( SL5 each) and have my own barges(Cov's, I see no need for hulks in high sec) why would I need a corp? Simply because you enjoy PvP doesn't mean that everyone does.
Well, the risk aspect is not that huge issue in EVE. It all depends what you fly.
You can be effective and have fun PvPing in frigates as well as in battleship. And everything in between and above.
Alliances and corporations add a lot more than just access to 0.0 sector. However, if you do enjoy soloing the game, it is perfectly ok, but in my opinion you miss a lot.
"My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option). But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second."
I think, just my opinion, that EVE would be a pretty dead game, if they allowed no risk PvP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Huge learning curve that takes a ton of time to overcome followed by huge time sinks to skill up only to have everything stolen from you by snot nose immature gankers is why I do not play Eve. I am not 12, I do not have tons of time to throw away. I tend to game to avoid the trapppings of a really crappy reality. I like a game where I can go in after a hard days works and not have to worry too much about some bastard trying to take my goods and money all the time like in the real world. Reality is harsh, but games are not about reality, they're about fantasy.
Well, I am sorry but EVE is nothing like that. The average age of a EVE player is probably quite a bit higher than other MMOs.
And yeah, I enjoy instant gratification as well, but would not like to see a game that is very unique to be changed to something else than what made is successful. There are other games. Perhaps, Jumpgate Evolution is a better choice for you. Nothing wrong with that.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
The 'multiplayer' part of MMO to me does not equate with head to head competition. I enjoy gaming with other people without neccesarily beating on them or having them beat on me within the game world. I play shooter style games for my PvP pleasures, I have yet to find a very satisfactory PvP play within MMO games. PvP in MMO's is inherently about unbalanced combat that all too often comes out as some form of 'gank'. A 'gank' being a fight that is highly unfair to one side and is initiated by the more powerful side upon the weaker side without regard to the weaker's desire to partake of the fight.
I have no interest in FFA style MMO games or even mixed 'safe' and 'open combat' games where players can only access some desirable game feature by entering into the unsafe areas. Depending upon how JGE is finally implemented I will or wont subscribe and vote with my money. The next space MMO with fun PvE combat that allows me to share it interactively with friends without a need to PvP for any other reason than I want to enjoy the combat for its own sake will get my $$$.
My biggest concern with games that try to straddle the PvP/PvE line is that they end up being poor games for either mode. I am waiting to see how well JGE turns out while trying to be both.
Very true. Warhammer Online proved that quite clearly. They rendered defeat in PvP virtually painless in an attempt (IMO) to draw far more PvE players into it. Well, PvE players STILL hate dying even if they don't really lose anything but a little time for doing so. The cost of carebear PvP is that victory is rendered meaningless if there is no risk.
PvE players still hate PvP, and PvP fans are bored when there is no risk.
A PvP game has to be committed to PvP almost exclusively. I can see having some PvE mobs to grind in off-hours, but a good PvP game needs to have solo, party, and large-scale PvP content available.
Yes, such a PvP game would have a smaller target audience, but I personally would be fine with paying more per month for a game which was committed to a first-rate PvP experience. Double or even triple the usual rate would be fine - IF the game gave me what I wanted.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Err.. ahh.. that's not even close to a good thing in any sort of way.
no risk pvp = players leave. Look at WAR
Harsh death penalty, means that the game either never moves beyond a small niche market, or most players stay in the safe areas(like high sec in Eve). Or the game eventually fails(look at shadowbane and other such gankfests).
Look at WOW.
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type point and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?...
WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?...
WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?...
WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
Actually, I started these games with UO... Left that when it became a total gankfest. I've played most of the major MMO's since then, and many of the minor ones. Some were more fun than others. Asherons call was fun, but the corpse runs and death penalty get old fast. Same with old style EQ. I suspect many people are viewing a lot of the "old school" games through rose tinted glasses. "Fun combat" means different things to different people. Look at Spellborn for example. Good graphics, interesting lore. But one risks carpel tunnel syndrome in the combat parts of the game ^^
Its too bad that the Spellborn company has gone bankrupt now, so soon after launch. WoW for all its flaws(which are legion), Is actually a good game up until level cap. Then things go down hill fast. I've been in since late beta(two 80's a 71 and a 70, and some 60's). I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun. I'm also waiting to see what JumpGate Evolution turns out to be.
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?...
WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun.
I went to the site with the screenshots and that game looks almost identical to WoW!
Look at WOW.
Do not look at wow. Turn your head away from such a tragic combat system and boycott all games that use anything close to wow type pont and click combat. We deserve more!
We deserve JGE!
Do you know what the ND Dev's would do for even 1/2 WoW's players?...
WoW's actually not a bad game. Its fairly entertaining all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding, heroics and/or PvP.
PvP lol? Everything in wow is not irrelevant because no matter how much content wow has the combat is really boring and you will quit for JGE or some other twitch-skill based game when you get sick of the grind and realize the combat is so stupid.
WoW is a good starter mmo then when you get broke-in it's time to move on and look for something that actually delivers some fun combat.
I'm hoping that Alganon turns out to be fun.
I went to the site with the screenshots and that game looks almost identical to WoW!
Alganon is one I have not been following but everyone is talking about Aion which is the same lame point and click let down that wow is except that there is more focus on pvp. When will people learn. I mean you get to the point where you realize that most companies are jumping on the band wagon. So when I look for a new game now I move on when I learn the combat is basically wow style. If I don't need to aim my shots manually and use cover I'm simply not interested any more.
It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate.. NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market.. I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together.. There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games? lmaooooooo NEXT..
If that is your argument, then you sir, are a retard.
Out of that 20 million we can discount the 6 or 7 million WOW players that just don't know any better for starters. Then we have to ask how many games, offering item loss pvp systems are actually on the market? Well of course we have EvE, but it's easy to see why some people wouldn't want to play, with a steep learning curve etc. So that leaves a large population of gamers that have come from games such as UO, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call (games which have now unfortunately either been hit with the nerf stick, or have dissappeared) who would LOVE a new game with item loss, yet have nothing available to them, apart from EvE.
Arguing along the lines of "why would any gaming company want to appeal to minority crowd" is also fairly stupid. Considering this is what CCP has done, and they are arguably one of the best companies in the MMO business today.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate.. NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market.. I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together.. There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games? lmaooooooo NEXT..
If that is your argument, then you sir, are a retard.
Out of that 20 million we can discount the 6 or 7 million WOW players that just don't know any better for starters. Then we have to ask how many games, offering item loss pvp systems are actually on the market? Well of course we have EvE, but it's easy to see why some people wouldn't want to play, with a steep learning curve etc. So that leaves a large population of gamers that have come from games such as UO, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call (games which have now unfortunately either been hit with the nerf stick, or have dissappeared) who would LOVE a new game with item loss, yet have nothing available to them, apart from EvE.
Arguing along the lines of "why would any gaming company want to appeal to minority crowd" is also fairly stupid. Considering this is what CCP has done, and they are arguably one of the best companies in the MMO business today.
As much as I like and admire CCP, the fact remains that they have about 300K subs. Why? Learning curve for one. The very harsh death penalty for another. There is also another fact that many people ignore. More than half of their player base never leaves high sec. Its been established that just about any game with a harsh death penalty niches itself.
There are simply a lot more of us CareBears than there are Hard Core PvP types. Given that the object of creating a MMO is to make a good return on the investors money, it just stands to reason that there would be more focus on PvE, with limited PvP. Also, keeping the death penalty down means that more(not less) people *may* take part.