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The Day one land grab? (Player driven, not player owned cities)

TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398

Imagine day one you could be cruising across the barrens of a mildly populated planet on your speeder bike when all of a sudden you notice a beacon. You walk over to the beacon; click on it and you get a prompt,

 

<Would you like to construct an outpost here?>

 

You click yes and next thing you know the construction of an outpost begins, you get a base, landing pad and city hall building. You then get a prompt asking you to name your city. You can either pick from a preselected list or use your own pending approval.

 

<Congratulations you are now the founder of <insertnamehere>!

 

You can either choose a preselected name, or wait for a name approval process.

 

<A founders plaque has been placed in your honor.>

 

From this point on you are the mayor of this outpost. Now you need to set up defenses, and find some residents which won’t be hard since your outpost is now on the planetary game map.

 

Players will not be able to charge whatever they want, it will be based on the size of the lot you use, the height of your construction ect. Item storage number restrictions are only based on the structures predetermined capacity and not the land.

 

Anybody can move into the city as long as it’s aligned with your faction or set to neutral at the time you move in.

 

Residents will have to be prepared to pay taxes, if they fail to pay, their house will be removed from the land. All items and structures remain in your inventory.

 

Taxes can only be paid ahead for up to 3 months so no houses that can persist in the world for 4 years. You actually need to be playing the game to pay.

 

It’s like an npc city because it’s mostly persistent; it’s just run by players and can grow unlike an NPC city. Compare it to the sims, but on an MMO level.

 

Npc will move into the city as the city expands and offer more services for players.

 

These cities are tied directly to the story arc system on that planet. As the players within your city gather more construction recourses, trade more goods within the city, grow in population (player and NPC), and complete more quests for your faction on that planet, the cities level will grow. It’s an active, not passive system. As your cities level grows you will need to build more structures and take advantage of the services your level offers. If your city sucks, NPC will move out and you will loose levels and ranking as a mayor. There is also some upkeep involved, NPC will mess your city up. There is a recognition system, NPC will know you are tied to a city when you help them and it all effects whether your cities growth and infrastructure, even if they are in an NPC city or outpost.



Some cities will be predetermined open alignment set to neutral (which can be factionaly aligned and fought over). Some will be persistent Sith on Sith planets, others will be persistent Republic on Republic planets. This can actually chance as entire planets are won and lost in the war. First the planet will fall, then slowly the cities will as well. It will be harder to fight off the opposing faction due to them having a stronger presence there basically.

 

All cities can and will be attacked (no player structures will stay damaged after an attack) (skirmishes). No player houses can be affected at all. It’s all a points system, you will have to repair stuff, but the appearance will reset.

 

After neutral city is brought under the control of a faction, the opposing faction players can remain, but the NPC within the city will change, and may attack. No opposing faction players can move in until the city is brought under that faction’s control. There are no player neutral factions in TOR, so be wary. They can and will make you life hell and you might just want move out. These cities are part of the war. There are safe zones for people who want to stay out of the action, but only in the housing zones where now NPC will patrol. You can be attacked there though if one follows you in.



There can be opposing faction mayors in neutral cities, but this has no effect on the city alignment until a skirmish for control has been won or lost.

 




If a factionaly aligned city is attacked, it will effect the cities level, you will need to do lots of repairs, and it will affect the mayors level which will appear during election time. If you suck at your job, then don’t expect your fellow players to reelect you. You can also hire assistants (staff) to share some of the duties of running the city with, if you get canned, they go with you.



City names can be changed by votes, the founders plaque will always remain, as well as the names on the mayoral wall

 

No city can become a ghost town, if all the structures vanish from the world the city will reset, minus the mayoral wall and 1st founder plaque. After a new city is founded the player who founds it will be added to the founder’s plaque.

 

If the mayor never re runs for election and no one else runs for an election the position becomes open to anyone who moves into the city and elects themselves to be mayor. Basically you can take over the position.

 

I guess from a roll play standpoint you could add a drop ship to the location to set the city up for the first time. As for advancing the city status you could petition say the planetary government to expand your boundaries, or maybe it just comes in the form of a Holo message stating that your boundaries have automatically increased. The way your city level status increases is thru a leveling system like I said which is connected to the actions of the players within and outside the city.

As for Militia, that is factionaly aligned and as the city status level increases they get better defenses in the form of turrets, shield generators around the barracks area, camera monitoring systems and NPC support, droids ect. There should be a warning system for all residents of the city no mater where in TOR you are, so if your city is being attacked you will be notified. Heck, you could even take it a step further and allow the game to actually text you outside the game on your phone, or send you an email. xD

 

SWG Bloodfin vet
Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
 
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Comments

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    Just more urban sprawl. No thanks.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398
    Originally posted by Moirae


    Just more urban sprawl. No thanks.

     

    You didn't really read it did you?

    It's all contained. It's like an NPC city, but it is run by players, put in pre determined area that's is set up for it's growth, it's part of the game. It is not a place anywhere you want type of city. It would be like if Cnet in SWG started out as just an outpost, and later grew to the size it is is now, or bigger but was based strictly on the players actions. So no, it is not urban sprawl. It's just another game play element.

    SWG Bloodfin vet
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  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Sounds like SWG player cities all over again.. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • KatillaKatilla Member UncommonPosts: 829
    Originally posted by Rydeson


    Sounds like SWG player cities all over again.. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

     

     

     

    but i LOVED being the mayor of my very own city!!

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198

    Actually, if you read the OP, it is absolutely nothing like the SWG cities.  It would be a developer designed city, just like all the normal ones, but with multiple different particular forms it could take over time according to various conditions.

    It's an interesting idea that could work very well and add a fun spin to the game.  To do it to the BioWare standard of quality though, that would require a substantial investment of time and resources.  Probably better as an idea for an expansion if the game is initially successful, rather than something at the start.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398
    Originally posted by Rydeson


    Sounds like SWG player cities all over again.. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



    Another person who didn't actually read it, or at least can't grasp it. No way is it even close to SWG player cities (other than you have a house) since it's tied to the war and story arc system and actually evolves and can be fought over. SWG player cities were pointless ghost towns, this serves a point. It's really just like an NPC city within the game like I said, only players can effect its growth or decline.

    You are either complete nubs with no real interest in TOR coming from nowhere just to troll, or just some alt accounts trolling. Otherwise you would know where I stand on the whole SWG thing here (and you would recognize my name here). Look at my post history, I've been here for ages. I'm not one of the angry vets trying to put SWG into TOR. I'm over that game now. I'm not interested in playing any version of SWG.

    That being said, Some of the concepts from SWG were great; it was the implementation that was way off and made SWG stink. No content, pointless additions that served no purpose= boredom. Sorry if you have such a short attention span you can't grasp on to simple concepts enough to see how they can be better. You just say oh, that's boring so x that out. That's not moving forward. You can take almost any concept and make it better and give it a purpose, reinvent it, if you think hard enough. Problem is most people just can’t move beyond the box.

    Now unless you have the mental capacity to add more than one sentence nonsense statements to my thread I’m not going to even bother reading anymore of your BS. Obviously it’s all lost on you since you failed to explain WHY you think it sounds like SWG or even give any valid examples.

     

     

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318

    No, I read it. I don't think any player should own any piece of land in the game. The one thing LOTORO did right was make them zones. And I have no objection at all to the zoning of EQ2 for housing purposes, though I do admit that I wish they would have made it so I could decorate the yard in front of the house.

  • AlienovrlordAlienovrlord Member Posts: 1,525

    This is suggesting that in addition to all the game elements and mechanics Bioware has to work on, balance and debug, there should also be a form of functioning city simulator in the game as well?

    I'd be happier if Bioware spent their resources working out all the classes, alien races, worlds, missions/dungeons, gear, ground combat, space combat (we hope!), force powers etcetcetc. rather than worrying about making cities that can grow and disappear.  

    I can't think of any Star Wars movie, novel, game, TV show or even fan-fiction that was based on someone being the mayor of a city. Lando ran Bespin city but that was not the subject of any story.    In fact, his entering the story pretty much ended his life as an administrator.    It's not what made Star Wars such a popular license and given that Bioware has limited resources, they should focus on those elements that did.       

    There's an infiinite number of things they *could* add in.   Diplomacy mechanics between factions.  Intergalatic elections.  Dance competitions.    That doesn't mean they should put them in.     

    That's not to say the OP's idea wouldn't be an interesting game mechanic for a MMORPG.   But it should be dine in a license or genre that's more fitting for city crafting.   Like perhaps a Wild West MMORPG.   It could work well in that genre since little towns were constantly popping up and vanishing in the old West and the town mayor was often a significant character in western stories.  

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu Member UncommonPosts: 1,832

    "Take my love, take my land

    Take me where I cannot stand

    I don't care, I'm still free

    You can't take the sky from me

    Take me out to the black

    Tell them I ain't comin' back

    Burn the land and boil the sea

    You can't take the sky from me

    There's no place I can be

    Since I found Serenity

    But you can't take the sky from me... "

     

    Keep the houses, let me be able to live on my ship! Could you imagine if they had cities, like you described Tillamook, with the abilities to accept players ships running goods and missions out of it?

    God, I hope they officially announce the Smuggler class soon.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • MurashuMurashu Member UncommonPosts: 1,386

    I really really want player owned cities/housing again. It is one of the things that I enjoyed most about SWG and one of the many things lacking in new MMOs today.

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980
    Originally posted by Moirae


    No, I read it. I don't think any player should own any piece of land in the game. The one thing LOTORO did right was make them zones. 

     

     

    Not at all.

     

    It was a mistake as all player neighborhoods are empty. They are all ghost cities.

     

     

    They should have made instanced apartments in NPC cities and instanced houses in NPC cities neighborhoods.

     

    OP, your idea sounds nice on paper but you need to gather the players in very few zones to enhance and promote socialization. You need a hub. So once again: in NPC cities.

     

     

     

     

  • hades302hades302 Member Posts: 61

    As a Hero fighting in the war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire, I will not have time to worry about paying taxes.

    Sorry, but your idea, as well thought out as it may be, is more akin to "A day in the life of Star Wars", which is not the direction of SW:TOR.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398

    You guys don't get it, I think one person here actually got what I was putting down which pretty much means the average person is an idiot, closed minded with no imagination. Which explains a lot in the current crop of MMOs and why people end up throwing the game box under their desk after the first month. None are adding anything innovative at all.

    But you know, I noticed most of you came from EQ2, which explains a lot as well. In EQ2 NPC cities are dead, so should there just not be NPC cities at all in every MMO on the market because of one fail game? No, you make them better, and give them a purpose. NPC cities in EQ2 have absolutely no strategic value for PvP or PvE. There are quests, for noobs. You go there to stand around for hours and make stuff no one but noobs want, a way to get from point A to point B. All a Pointless facade.



    It is not a SWG player city, so scratch that idea right now, it is affected by the players, and can be semi operated by players, but it's not a stand alone player city. It's an NPC city with the illusion of a player city. Players have an effect on the environment, that’s all. You won’t see 25 of these on any server with stupid names like in SWG because this isn’t SWG. So since it’s not SWG why do you think it will fail like SWG just because BioWare adds something from that game and makes it better? Seriously to me it sounds like an emotional issue for some of you. I’m not interested in emulating anything from SWG, just something new. Should you be able to live in a ship? I guess, but how many people live in ships in the SW universe all the time? Not many.

     

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu Member UncommonPosts: 1,832

    Wow...heavy flow day?

    I was simply stating that it was a good idea and adding my desire to be able to live out of a ship...(ala KOTOR) ....running goods and services out of and for these Player run NPC cities. No heart felt ache towards SWG at all, I could care less about that game. It was just my desire for a sci-fi game to actually attempt to incorporate the space element with the ground game and make it meaningful.

    I know, I'm weird like that.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,944
    Originally posted by tillamook


    You guys don't get it, I think one person here actually got what I was putting down which pretty much means the average person is an idiot, closed minded with no imagination. Which explains a lot in the current crop of MMOs and why people end up throwing the game box under their desk after the first month. None are adding anything innovative at all.
    But you know, I noticed most of you came from EQ2, which explains a lot as well. In EQ2 NPC cities are dead, so should there just not be NPC cities at all in every MMO on the market because of one fail game? No, you make them better, and give them a purpose. NPC cities in EQ2 have absolutely no strategic value for PvP or PvE. There are quests, for noobs. You go there to stand around for hours and make stuff no one but noobs want, a way to get from point A to point B. All a Pointless facade.


    It is not a SWG player city, so scratch that idea right now, it is affected by the players, and can be semi operated by players, but it's not a stand alone player city. It's an NPC city with the illusion of a player city. Players have an effect on the environment, that’s all. You won’t see 25 of these on any server with stupid names like in SWG because this isn’t SWG. So since it’s not SWG why do you think it will fail like SWG just because BioWare adds something from that game and makes it better? Seriously to me it sounds like an emotional issue for some of you. I’m not interested in emulating anything from SWG, just something new. Should you be able to live in a ship? I guess, but how many people live in ships in the SW universe all the time? Not many.
     

     

    In that case I think there was a better way to post what you wanted.

    Hey guys, I have an idea for a type of city that might benefit this game. Or really any game for that matter.

    for those of you not familiar with SWG I will say up front that It is not a SWG player city. 

    It is, however, affected by the players, and can be semi operated by players, but it's not a stand alone player city. It's an NPC city with the illusion of a player city. Players have an effect on the environment. Because it is in controlled areas you won’t see 25 of these on any server nor will they have names that don't fit in the game world. Here is my idea...

     

    And then post your idea. Otherwise you just posted the idea but with those who are not too familiar with SWG but who know that SWG had player controlled cities it stands to reason that they might jump to conclusions. Plus it benefits from you prefacing the idea and setting people up for what you actually intend.

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  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398
    Originally posted by BaronJuJu


    Wow...heavy flow day?
    I was simply stating that it was a good idea and adding my desire to be able to live out of a ship...(ala KOTOR) ....running goods and services out of and for these Player run NPC cities. No heart felt ache towards SWG at all, I could care less about that game. It was just my desire for a sci-fi game to actually attempt to incorporate the space element with the ground game and make it meaningful.
    I know, I'm weird like that.

     

    Don't get all bent because I wasn't directing my fire at you at all. There was a rumor that you would be able to live in a ship. I was just stating that while cool as it is to live in space and I agree it should be an option, why should it be the only option? It just cheapens the experience a bit and makes it seem like a quick easy solution, when there could be so much more than just that. And yeah, making this an expansion would be great for those who want it.

    It's not just living in a house and decorating, crafting lag and spam free, its fighting over territory. PvE and PvP players would enjoy the same benefits, and since you live you have more to gain or lose by fighting over it, it adds to the emersion. If joeblow comes along and just blows your ship out from under you, the only inconvenience you may suffer is being towed to a space station and a loading screen. If NPC and players move to attack the capital you call home and you know allowing them control over it will affect you in some way, that gives you more reason to care. I know some like it simple, and they can still enjoy the simplicity, but the people who want more will get more.

     

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu Member UncommonPosts: 1,832
    Originally posted by tillamook


    Don't get all bent because I wasn't directing my fire at you at all. There was a rumor that you would be able to live in a ship. I was just stating that while cool as it is to live in space and I agree it should be an option, why should it be the only option? It just cheapens the experience a bit and makes it seem like a quick easy solution, when there could be so much more than just that. And yeah, making this an expansion would be great for those who want it.
    It's not just living in a house and decorating, crafting lag and spam free, its fighting over territory. PvE and PvP players would enjoy the same benefits, and since you live you have more to gain or lose by fighting over it, it adds to the emersion. If joeblow comes along and just blows your ship out from under you, the only inconvenience you may suffer is being towed to a space station and a loading screen. If NPC and players move to attack the capital you call home and you know allowing them control over it will affect you in some way, that gives you more reason to care. I know some like it simple, and they can still enjoy the simplicity, but the people who want more will get more.

     



     

     LOL, easy man I was just trying to get you to lighten up a bit, you seemed a bit bummed. Like I said before, I like that city idea and I agree that it would be great to be able to fight and die to get or protect it. I enjoy all aspects of a game, be it PVP or PVE. I would also hope that "joeblow" couldn't just take my ship out that I could actually fight to keep it.  Maybe if by winning that fight, say by fighting my way through a Player or NPC blockade, means bringing supplies and needed Player/NPC support to your city under attack.  Space and ground working together towards a common goal!

    Also, by no means should my wanting to live out of a ship cheapen anything or grant me the ability to live forever up there without interacting with anyone. Supplies and resources should be very limited thereby forcing me to go to known ground locations for work, resupply and continuation of my storyline/missions/quests/etc.

     

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • AlienovrlordAlienovrlord Member Posts: 1,525
    Originally posted by BaronJuJu


    "Take my love, take my land

    Take me where I cannot stand

    I don't care, I'm still free

    You can't take the sky from me

    Take me out to the black

    Tell them I ain't comin' back

    Burn the land and boil the sea

    You can't take the sky from me

    There's no place I can be

    Since I found Serenity

    But you can't take the sky from me... "

    Ha!  Great idea!   I could see the idea of establishing towns/settlements fitting much better with Serenity's Wild West angle than with Star Wars' scifi-fantasy setting.

    The problem is that space travel has existed for many millenia in Star Wars.   Because of that, there just isn't much feel of  colonization or setting up new cities in Star Wars (even though it's still going on).   That's just not a major element in the Star Wars stories, it takes a backseat to the war.    A Star Wars game should do the same, emphasize the war, not setting up cities.

    But with a Serenity-based game, space travel is much more recent and settlements scratching and struggling for existence are a central element in the story.     And as Baronjuju suggests it would feed into the important element of independent traders/smugglers going between the settlements/cities with goods.   That could become an essential part of their economies.

    Apart from accusing everyone of being EQ2 players (I'm not) the OP hasn't addressed how this city management feature would take resources and money from Bioware as they develop SWTOR.    Something like this mechanic would take a good deal of coding and work to make it playable and after all that effort, it should be more of a core feature of the game.

    It would not fit as a core feature with Star Wars, but it would fit very well with Serenity.    

     

     

     

  • Carl132pCarl132p Member UncommonPosts: 538

    I have a feeling you are all expecting much more in the housing  shops  sandboxy day in the life of starwars department than Bioware ever had any plans of implementing. If i were you I wouldn't expect to just "live" anywhere except your ship. Expect everywhere else you are to be traveling to the next mission or fight.

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu Member UncommonPosts: 1,832
    Originally posted by Carl132p


    I have a feeling you are all expecting much more in the housing  shops  sandboxy day in the life of starwars department than Bioware ever had any plans of implementing. If i were you I wouldn't expect to just "live" anywhere except your ship. Expect everywhere else you are to be traveling to the next mission or fight.



     

    Maybe your right...but we can always dream!

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • hubertgrovehubertgrove Member Posts: 1,141
    Originally posted by Murashu


    I really really want player owned cities/housing again. It is one of the things that I enjoyed most about SWG and one of the many things lacking in new MMOs today.



     

    I agree. Player owned and run cities really worked in SWG. I also liked the idea of players having houses in far off places of the map like their hunting lodges or hideaway. I had a three guild-house compound beside an Imperial fort in the very far north-west of Tattoine - an excellent defensive area when the bounty hunters came after my jedi.

    However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.

  • MurashuMurashu Member UncommonPosts: 1,386
    Originally posted by hubertgrove
    However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.



     

    For some reason a lot of MMO players today are completely against anything that involves other players having an impact on thier gameplay. They want to change the world with thier actions but don't want your actions to change thier world.

  • hubertgrovehubertgrove Member Posts: 1,141
    Originally posted by Murashu

    Originally posted by hubertgrove
    However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.



     

    For some reason a lot of MMO players today are completely against anything that involves other players having an impact on thier gameplay. They want to change the world with thier actions but don't want your actions to change thier world.



     

    But they don't change the world with their actions. To be utterly frank, a player is the most insignificant thing in any MMO. I mean, how many times has Guldan or Lord Mortis been killed?

    Only through player housing and cities do players ever change the physical landscape of the game. If done properly and with regular monitoring and adjustment, these features can add great richness to the game without detracting from the experience of the FPSers. I am one of those who thought player cities really turned SWG into something special though I known that there are those who disagree.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,398
    Originally posted by Murashu

    Originally posted by hubertgrove
    However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.



     

    For some reason a lot of MMO players today are completely against anything that involves other players having an impact on thier gameplay. They want to change the world with thier actions but don't want your actions to change thier world.



    Thing is why can't people just leave a feature alone instead of bitching about it constantly on forums, and saying how much it sucks when they can just as easily avoid it and not be involved in it since they don’t like it?

    A good example is arenas in some MMOs. I'm not into them, so I don’t play them and I don’t complain about them. Some people like them, but it has no real impact on me. I may not get to uber like them and be on the leaderboards so everyone knows I’m cool, but whatever I'm not gonna cry about it because it's just not my thing. I’ll make a name for myself elsewhere if I think I need to be popular. xD

    I guess I could have made those who don’t like this idea happy by saying….

    “OH BTW this is an it’s own instance away from the rest of the game world so you never have to look at someone’s house”

    But then that would’ve completely killed it for the intended audience since most of them gain pride in showing their stuff off. This is some of the same challenges BioWare will face. Do you gimp a feature in the game to make the people who would never use that feature happy? Or do you build it like how it should be for the intended audience since they will be the ones playing it anyways? Hopefully the later.

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • DreamionDreamion Member UncommonPosts: 287

    Sounds like some kind of AoC guild city thing.

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