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Star Trek movie

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  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    They went out of their way in the movie to make it clear that what follows is not what would have followed.

     

    While in the ST world timelines might but be a common thing in the world we live in EVERYTHING but Enterprise and this flick (Cadets in Space we can call it) no longer exist, period.  Basically, it is as if SW: Episode 1 started with Anikan getting eaten my Jar Jar - the rest (3, 4, 5) necessarily has to have never happened.

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    yes but its an alternate timeline.

    It doesnt mean that they will continue with this timeline and, even if they do, doesnt mean there wont be many other interesting characters and stories we can enjoy. Our old loves are still there on DvD shelves, this simply lets us enjoy an experience news ones....assuming they stick with this timeline.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Nah, they chucked it and did so consciously.  If they wanted to maintain the established lore the movie would have ended with the red matter reacting in a way that reset things or some such but ending as it did they clearly erased all that made ST what it is and as far as I am concerned ended ST.  What follows may become great who knows - but I have no more connection to it than any new SciFi show/movie that comes along and based on this movie alone I wouldn't rush out to see any follow ups.

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  • TeranHawkinsTeranHawkins Member Posts: 279

    I loved the movie too!!! But alas, movies don't last all that long in theaters.  Two to three months at most, especially during summer movie season.  If they would've been able to capitalize and launch STO now, while the FANTASTIC movie is out I think it would help greatly with subscriptions,  but the movie will be out of sight and out of mind by the time this game arrives on store shelves :(

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by TeranHawkins


    I loved the movie too!!! But alas, movies don't last all that long in theaters.  Two to three months at most, especially during summer movie season.  If they would've been able to capitalize and launch STO now while the FANTASTIC movie is out I think it will help greatly but the movie will be out of side and out of mind by the time this game arrives on store shelves :(

     

    could always time it with the DVD release.

  • TeranHawkinsTeranHawkins Member Posts: 279
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Originally posted by TeranHawkins


    I loved the movie too!!! But alas, movies don't last all that long in theaters.  Two to three months at most, especially during summer movie season.  If they would've been able to capitalize and launch STO now while the FANTASTIC movie is out I think it will help greatly but the movie will be out of side and out of mind by the time this game arrives on store shelves :(

     

    could always time it with the DVD release.

     

    True, but do people really get super jacked for a dvd release?  Not so much as they've already seen the movie on the big screen.  Oh and to those that are arguing the fact of the old material for Star Trek being erased, haven't you learned anything about time lines over the years?  The old timeline would still continue to go on.  The Trek as depicted in the new film is the NEW timeline that we are now following.  It is a BRANCH of A reality.  If time travel were possible, theoretically there can be numerous timelines existing at once so your point is null of it being "erased".

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061
    Originally posted by CazNeerg




     
    Just in the spirit of full disclosure though: Cardassia? the Dominion?  Bajor? Who friggin' cares?  DS9 was good for a little while, but then the Ron Moore infection got in deep.  Sisko and the Prophets = snoooooooooooze.  As for Nemesis, the Nosferatu style Remans were amusing, but the writing was just bad.  Yes, by all means, let the franchise stay in a creative rut and die completely, rather than doing something new and interesting.



     

    Personally I say who friggin cares about a rehashed Kirk and Spock? We've been there already and done that. We have three seasons and six movies already with that premise.I don't think recycling old material is creative by any stretch of the imagination. It's certainly not being new. Being new would have been a new crew of new characters on a new enterprise with a new villian in the Universe as we last saw it. What we're getting here are old characters jazzed up on a redesigned ship in an alternate universe(which by the way has been done to DEATH) New and creative? Don't make me laugh. Next thing you'll tell me is Rob Zombie was "new and creative" when he redid Halloween.

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  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    It's not just a different timeline, it's an alternate reality. Otherwise we would not remember the hundreds of episodes, books, and movies that followed as it would have never taken place.  LOL. 

     

    Spock didn't go back to his own reality/time because of the sequel. 

     

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    The timeline thing is a weak because basically it means we are to accept to completely different versions of these characters that we only care about because of the timeline that is not part of the story they are telling.  Example, Kirk was who he was in TOS because of his life experiences and training but in the new ST that is all out the window from the moment of his birth to his skipped training and total lack of experience as a Starfleet officer.

     

    But that aside, the idea of here is 'another way it happened' is creatively and literally unsound and I think untenable.  From the RW perspective we live in it destroys all that makes Star trek what it is (or was).  From the fictional premise of the ST universe it means that all possible outcomes are part of ST including that Spock strangled Kirk on that bridge, that they failed to stop the Romulan mining ship from destroying Earth, so on and so on until you get to a point that all the stories lack meaning as it has no continuity or grounding. 

     

    There is no way ST continues far past this, at least not like it did before.  As a franchise the integrity of the story is gone and it is nothing but just another SciFi story now.  This game, any movies, whatever comes next hold no connection to what came before but in name only.  Yes, maybe the movie makes some cash and gets a sequal - but what does that mean even the bad TNG movies got sequels.  ST as a mass creative franchise ended with this movie by their own choice.

     

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by AgtSmith


    But that aside, the idea of here is 'another way it happened' is creatively and lilterallily unsound and I think untenable.  From the RW perspective we live in it destroys all that makes Star trek what it is (or was).  From the fictional premise of the ST universe it means that all possible outcomes are part of ST including that Spock strangled Kirk on that bridge, that they failed to stop the Romulan mining ship from destroying Earth, so on and so on until you get to a point that all the stories lack menaing as it has no continuity or grounnding. 

    This was already covered in TNG, I forget the episode, but the enterprise started duplicating by the thousands, all of the other dimensions were merging into one.

    Riker talked to Picard from another ship and said they'd been fighting the borg and wouldnt go back no matter what.

    Forget exactly how that episode went down, or what caused it, but it showed that Star Trek universe is fine with infinite dimensions, and while you personally find that to be an end, I personally find that extremely interesting.

    Personally I would love to see that Rikers universe and what brought what is a great man in our universe to that level of madness. Im shocked that you dont find it interesting at all.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Originally posted by AgtSmith


    But that aside, the idea of here is 'another way it happened' is creatively and lilterallily unsound and I think untenable.  From the RW perspective we live in it destroys all that makes Star trek what it is (or was).  From the fictional premise of the ST universe it means that all possible outcomes are part of ST including that Spock strangled Kirk on that bridge, that they failed to stop the Romulan mining ship from destroying Earth, so on and so on until you get to a point that all the stories lack menaing as it has no continuity or grounnding. 

    This was already covered in TNG, I forget the episode, but the enterprise started duplicating by the thousands, all of the other dimensions were merging into one.

    Riker talked to Picard from another ship and said they'd been fighting the borg and wouldnt go back no matter what.

    Forget exactly how that episode went down, or what caused it, but it showed that Star Trek universe is fine with infinite dimensions, and while you personally find that to be an end, I personally find that extremely interesting.

    Personally I would love to see that Rikers universe and what brought what is a great man in our universe to that level of madness. Im shocked that you dont find it interesting at all.

     

    Yes, I know the one you are talking about and I didn't like it for that reason - according to that episode Riker is a screaming frady cat as much as he is a great First Officer.  But the big difference is the episode concluded with establishing the TNG we knew as the 'correct' timeline, or at least the 'official' one.

     

    It isn't that such possibilities, in RL or fantasy, are not interesting it is that it is important for literary integrity that we can trust we are not just gonna have what we have been told snatched away and be told, do over.  If that is the case then how can any creative work really survive past the moment?  How can you invest interest or even care about characters that at the drop of a hat get reset and change in dramatic ways?  Especially in a franchise that has been built on 30 years of continuity and by creating not just persistent characters for us to be interested in but a persistent fantasy universe of interest.

     

    What gets me is this just wasn't necessary and in no way did they make this movie or the chance for future movies/shows better doign this.  Of all the periods Kirks has the least cannon to chain it save the movies of TNG (the original series itself was very non cannon-ish).  It would have been very easy to just start as they did, zip ahead to Kirk and the TNG noobs graduating and geting assingments and rising up through the ranks advancing to the Enterprise where some crisis brings them together as the bring crew we know and then they set themselves apart saving the day and it ends with Kirk getting the promotion to Captain and off you go.  No need to totally destroy all that came after this period and even to destroy what made Kirk who he was changing his entire life and that of Spock and the Federation as well by destroying Vulcan.

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    Its only different if they choose to stick with this time line, and that has yet to be seen.

    I still say even if they do its not exactly a bad thing, it could allow them to fix certain issues with the original canon, could also allow entirely different scenarios.

    I keep hoping for some series or movie that deals with the borg. Maybe Im a nut job but I just couldnt get enough of the borg, possibly the most horrifying of all of the enemys and I feel they were barely touched on.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis


    Its only different if they choose to stick with this time line, and that has yet to be seen.


     

    I think they lost the chance, and admittingly doing so would have really made it cheesy as a stand alone movie, when the credits rolled on this movie.  Besides that, how ridiculous would the franchise be if it reset again and went back in a future film - how could anyone take it serious if the simple idea of this is a character and you are learning his story has no integrity or meaning?

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by AgtSmith

    Originally posted by Pyrostasis


    Its only different if they choose to stick with this time line, and that has yet to be seen.


     

    I think they lost the chance, and admittingly doing so would have really made it cheesy as a stand alone movie, when the credits rolled on this movie.  Besides that, how ridiculous would the franchise be if it reset again and went back in a future film - how could anyone take it serious if the simple idea of this is a character and you are learning his story has no integrity or meaning?

     

    They did that many times with the series, we met characters from other timelines, got looks at other stories, and yet they were never finished. Finishing it isnt a requirement for Sci Fi, its more about showing us possibilities and leaving us to decide what happens next.

    Thats the blessing and curse of Scifi, you get a ton of great ideas, but sadly only a fraction of them are actually fully explored.

  • veritas_Xveritas_X Member Posts: 393
    Originally posted by admriker4

    dozens of teens including shockingly girls (in groups, not just some guy's date) poured in.


     

    Lmao. 

    Yes and I'm sure all the hot girls in the theater were closet sci-fi geeks and not there to see Pine and Quinto.

    In any event, fun movie, hopefully the mmo will ride its coat-tails a bit.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    The difference is they always put it back before the episode ended.  Heck, even mainstream non SciFi shows do some dream sequence of flashback and tell an alternate story from time to time.  That is not the issue, leaving it in that alternate view is the issue and by not having the plot end with it resetting somehow precludes going back in an convincing way.

     

    What I am saying is there is a big difference between saying 'hey, what if it was like this' and coming back to how it has been and saying 'wait, all that other is not who these people are this is'.  And trying to come back from the second one is way too hard even if you wanted too.

     

    That being said, doing what they did it is pretty clear they do not want to go back - they intentionally and willfully shed the previous 30+ years of ST.

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    You know you are bored off your ass when you spend the evening arguing theoretical phsyics (time lines / multi dimensions) with other scifi fans.

  • diricio1diricio1 Member Posts: 67

    I really enjoyed the "Star Trek" movie. I'm really not the one that has alot of knowledge about Star Trek and Star Wars, but I know a little bit more about Star Wars and I have to say that I am in LOVE with the Star Trek Universe. I find myself researching Star Trek and trying to catch up on at least a tad bit of its lore and so on. I am also really excited for the "Star Trek Online" game.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,204
    Originally posted by GrandAm

    Originally posted by tamgros

    Originally posted by jmd10222

    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by Otiro

    Originally posted by CazNeerg


    My main thought is that it is pretty funny that the game is being set in a timeline that no longer exists.

     

    Actually if I remember correctly the game takes place 30 years after "Nemesis" which was the last Next Genration movie. So I would think that the time line is correct.

    Voyager, and Deep Space Nine took place during the same time line as the Next Generation series. The game comes in after that.

    I could be wrong though.



     

    Possible SPOILER ALERT

    >

    >

    >

    Without giving specific plot spoilers, I think it is safe to say that as of the end of this movie, it is far more likely than not that the events depicted in Nemesis never happen.

     

    It is an alternate timeline/reality. They even mention this in the Movie, and JJ has also said this in interviews. So STO does not take place in this reality, but the one established by TNG...God I hate temporal mechanics, makes my head hurt.

     

    Yes, this is the way it is.

     

    STO has adopted the changes to the TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, timeline that took place in the movie.  What this amounts to is that Spock is no longer around, Romulus/Remus are destroyed, the Romulan empire is a bit scatterd, and Vulcan is alive and kickkin!

     

    But yes, time travel makes my head hurt.  At least we don't have to think about paradoxes.  Alternate timeline makes it a bit easier.

    Because of the timeline rebranch there have been many an upset trekker in other forums I have been to.  Which brings me to my newly found signiture.

     

    "Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic

    I like the timeline shift the movie has brought.  After 40 years of TV shows, movies, and other media there is just to much cannon to have to adhere to.  I think this will allow for some different movies and story lines.  I just hope they don't use time travel AGAIN for a while.

    It helps me to see the STO timeline as the original and view this new movie as one of those alternate what if comic books.  You know where Batman somehow runs into Wolverine and gets the crap clawed out of him when the compete for who has the most gravelly voice while comparing who had the worst childhood.

    Yes I thought  the movie was great.  Best time I had in movie theater in a long while.



     

    Or perhaps it all still exists but that all we have access to is different.

    so we can eat our cake and still have it as well.

  • MyskMysk Member Posts: 982

    My main complaint with the movie was the relationship between Uhura and Spock.

    1.) Yes, the worse thing that could possibly EVAR happen happened, but that would not make a woman spontaneously begin making out with you.  if that's the way that women comfort you these days then damn it, I am VERY depressed.

    2.) He's Vulcan.  Yes, half Vulcan, but seriously.

    The whole "relationship" was superficial / transparent.  A rushed job to put two attractive people kissing on screen, and a "haha its not Kirk getting the girl" jab in there.  Juvenile and transparent.  Yeah, it irritated me quite a bit.

    Aside from that, I spent the majority of the movie wondering just how they were going to fix the time line mess before the movie wrapped up.  It eventually became obvious that they weren't going to, and I groaned at the thought that the next movie would be all about putting humpty dumpty back together again.

    I hadn't read anything about the movie so I had no idea that creating and continuing to work in an alternate reality was their intention.   Thus the plot struck me as incredibly weak and as a serious eye roller.  "Oh... gods.. it's a time travel episode! URGH!"  I couldn't believe that I had just spent money on that.

    Yet aside from the mountainous levels of suck, it was still a good movie.  Dare I say very good?  I'm very confused.  It was both very good and just flat out awful.  It was like a creature of oil and water come together to form a movie.  I can't decide if it sucked rotten eggs or if it was great.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498
    Originally posted by diricio1


    I really enjoyed the "Star Trek" movie. I'm really not the one that has alot of knowledge about Star Trek and Star Wars, but I know a little bit more about Star Wars and I have to say that I am in LOVE with the Star Trek Universe. I find myself researching Star Trek and trying to catch up on at least a tad bit of its lore and so on. I am also really excited for the "Star Trek Online" game.

    What is to catch up with lore wise?  It was all wiped out save the one TV series Enterprise.

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  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by Mysk


    My main complaint with the movie was the relationship between Uhura and Spock.
    1.) Yes, the worse thing that could possibly EVAR happen happened, but that would not make a woman spontaneously begin making out with you.  if that's the way that women comfort you these days then damn it, I am VERY depressed.
    2.) He's Vulcan.  Yes, half Vulcan, but seriously.
    The whole "relationship" was superficial / transparent.  A rushed job to put two attractive people kissing on screen, and a "haha its not Kirk getting the girl" jab in there.  Juvenile and transparent.  Yeah, it irritated me quite a bit.
    Aside from that, I spent the majority of the movie wondering just how they were going to fix the time line mess before the movie wrapped up.  It eventually became obvious that they weren't going to, and I groaned at the thought that the next movie would be all about putting humpty dumpty back together again.
    I hadn't read anything about the movie so I had no idea that creating and continuing to work in an alternate reality was their intention.   Thus the plot struck me as incredibly weak and as a serious eye roller.  "Oh... gods.. it's a time travel episode! URGH!"  I couldn't believe that I had just spent money on that.
    Yet aside from the mountainous levels of suck, it was still a good movie.  Dare I say very good?  I'm very confused.  It was both very good and just flat out awful.  It was like a creature of oil and water come together to form a movie.  I can't decide if it sucked rotten eggs or if it was great.

    Maybe I just read into it, but I didnt see spock and her relationship starting in that turbo lift. It seemed to me to have been a long standing and secret relationship.

    Maybe Im wrong but thats how I took it.

  • AndraxxAndraxx Member UncommonPosts: 252
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Originally posted by Mysk


    My main complaint with the movie was the relationship between Uhura and Spock.
    1.) Yes, the worse thing that could possibly EVAR happen happened, but that would not make a woman spontaneously begin making out with you.  if that's the way that women comfort you these days then damn it, I am VERY depressed.
    2.) He's Vulcan.  Yes, half Vulcan, but seriously.
    The whole "relationship" was superficial / transparent.  A rushed job to put two attractive people kissing on screen, and a "haha its not Kirk getting the girl" jab in there.  Juvenile and transparent.  Yeah, it irritated me quite a bit.
    Aside from that, I spent the majority of the movie wondering just how they were going to fix the time line mess before the movie wrapped up.  It eventually became obvious that they weren't going to, and I groaned at the thought that the next movie would be all about putting humpty dumpty back together again.
    I hadn't read anything about the movie so I had no idea that creating and continuing to work in an alternate reality was their intention.   Thus the plot struck me as incredibly weak and as a serious eye roller.  "Oh... gods.. it's a time travel episode! URGH!"  I couldn't believe that I had just spent money on that.
    Yet aside from the mountainous levels of suck, it was still a good movie.  Dare I say very good?  I'm very confused.  It was both very good and just flat out awful.  It was like a creature of oil and water come together to form a movie.  I can't decide if it sucked rotten eggs or if it was great.

    Maybe I just read into it, but I didnt see spock and her relationship starting in that turbo lift. It seemed to me to have been a long standing and secret relationship.

    Maybe Im wrong but thats how I took it.

    I saw it as going back much farther. She did badger Spock to get re-assigned to the Enterprise and he gave in rather easily.

     

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by Andraxx

    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Originally posted by Mysk


    My main complaint with the movie was the relationship between Uhura and Spock.
    1.) Yes, the worse thing that could possibly EVAR happen happened, but that would not make a woman spontaneously begin making out with you.  if that's the way that women comfort you these days then damn it, I am VERY depressed.
    2.) He's Vulcan.  Yes, half Vulcan, but seriously.
    The whole "relationship" was superficial / transparent.  A rushed job to put two attractive people kissing on screen, and a "haha its not Kirk getting the girl" jab in there.  Juvenile and transparent.  Yeah, it irritated me quite a bit.
    Aside from that, I spent the majority of the movie wondering just how they were going to fix the time line mess before the movie wrapped up.  It eventually became obvious that they weren't going to, and I groaned at the thought that the next movie would be all about putting humpty dumpty back together again.
    I hadn't read anything about the movie so I had no idea that creating and continuing to work in an alternate reality was their intention.   Thus the plot struck me as incredibly weak and as a serious eye roller.  "Oh... gods.. it's a time travel episode! URGH!"  I couldn't believe that I had just spent money on that.
    Yet aside from the mountainous levels of suck, it was still a good movie.  Dare I say very good?  I'm very confused.  It was both very good and just flat out awful.  It was like a creature of oil and water come together to form a movie.  I can't decide if it sucked rotten eggs or if it was great.

    Maybe I just read into it, but I didnt see spock and her relationship starting in that turbo lift. It seemed to me to have been a long standing and secret relationship.

    Maybe Im wrong but thats how I took it.

    I saw it as going back much farther. She did badger Spock to get re-assigned to the Enterprise and he gave in rather easily.

     

     

    He also knew her "Secret" first name

  • oddjobs74oddjobs74 Member Posts: 526

    I am just watching it now.. waiting for the end to finish buffering and I agreee the spok uhura thing is greatly disturbing...

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