First off the golden rule of Darkfall forums and gameplay is dont read the general discussion or most of the forums anyways, Its all about whines, banned accounts voting on those polls. Second I havnt got bored once in this game or DCed or saw a cheater/hacker in any form. With the update of patches fixing the grind and macroing and the so called hacking cheating ppl, this game is only getting better, not to mention the added content of quests and PVE which will add a better PVP in the long run and the naked zerging getting nerfed every week, this game is only getting better.
Now I know how you feel, you read all the forums on DF and here and say this game sucks, I know I did but then I played it and I loved it. This game isnt for the weak or stupid, And people are either weak or stupid to choose to read tons of forums of bad publicity instead of trying the game themselves. The stores get sold out every 10 minutes still, and the people who are posting on forums are either rejects who couldnt handle a game and live in a imaginery world that any game revolves around them, or they couldnt get in to the game, or they listened to the forums instead of trying it out.
This game is all I hoped for, and if they keep on patching it with giant patches once a week adding and fixing stuff heavily and making it less of a grind(which they are) then this game will be able to hold me for awhile. Most people who like the game do not post on the forums, because the only time they got on the computer they are playing it and having fun for the most part. Now some will QQ about this or that on the forums who played it but they are either mad weak or stupid that something happened in game that cost them time. Which is probably why EVE doesnt have 12 mill subscribers, because its deff not a carebear game just like darkfall.
Ive seen the "stupid and weak" reference made here by a few of the fanbots. Is this like botspeak? You in fact sound exactally like Javac. Which I find, very very amusing. Its too bad people whom have played are QQing on the forums as you say, since most of them have some very critical thoughs about the state of Darkfall. And frankly I love to hear from people whom played, because unlike you, these people do post topics worthy of discussion. You on the other hand simply dismiss anyone not praising the game as ... stupid, and weak. Oh the store sold out line was overused javac...err...whomever you really are.
Oh and you really would be full of it asserting a games own forums are NOT the place to seek information...thats just...STOOPID.
Second I havnt got bored once in this game or DCed or saw a cheater/hacker in any form.
This is a blatant lie. Please do not let fanbots on forums fill your heads with lies. Unattended macroing is illegal, 3rd party programs to autoloot are illegal and a bannable offense and EVERYONE I ENCOUNTERED IN GAME USES IT.
Originally posted by Wizardry How often do you hear people in your clan/guild go,i just finished so and so quest? then count how many times players say "level 25...level 30..level 40....ding level 50.YES it is up to the players to create the fun,and most are choosing to make gaming utter BORING,so no wonder so many gamers are unhappy with games,they have no clue how to actually play a game.To most of the gamers,they think gaming is all about the levels,geesh they would be lost if a game had no levels..lol.
You missed the entire point of the post.
Saying DF is level-less is a false statement. You are basically leveling skills individually, that's the BORING part. Every forum I visit I keep seeing people saying it is boring but not explaining why, mainly because they do not understand the way gaming mechanics work, they just know what feels fun and what doesn't.
I will explain why they feel like this:
The player feels bored because the system leaves the player with NO SENSE OF PLAYER ACCOMPLISHMENT.
Follow me closely: Every skill is broken up into 4 levels (thats pretty lame) broken into increments of 25. People feel no sense of "getting stronger" with every skill level they gain until they gain access to a new skill (which ends up being either broken and/or unbalanced or weak) or they reach one of the 4 levels. They only see an improvement at every 25 skill lvls. So from 1-24 you feel NOTHING. That is where the boring part comes. I'm sure this will be fixed one day.
So instead of hearing "ding 1, 2, 3, 4" in chat every so often, instead you see people boasting about the skill level every 25 increments "ding 25, 50, 75, 100". Its the SAME THING coated in a different wrapper. How can you NOT see this? I am sure AV will fix this one day. As well as the simple fact that at higher skill levels alot of spells are STILL broken and/or unbalanced.
Now some people will try to throw Eve online in this subject and try to say its the same thing. It's not, in Eve every rank of skill level you achieve you DO have a sense of accomplishment because most of the times a new gaming option opens up, you are able to pilot a new ship, or gain access to a new set of skills, etc etc. And the best part is you do not have to be online to accomplish this, therefore no afk macroers.
DF has missed the most important factor in an mmo and in gaming in general. Sense of accomplishment. They keep telling their players to use their imagination. Everyone keeps hearing that the game is what you make it. The OP basically is saying that you shouldn't be forced to use your imagination to make a game exciting. This is where I disagree.
Now some of the fabots are trying to make a point to the OP but unfortunately are going about it the wrong way. So I will try to further elaborate with an example:
I am running around DF one night, getting ganked, constantly hearing some moron make random chuck norris jokes, and people bitch and complain in chat about getting dc'ed because of some issue, I don't know and I don't care.
Clearly I am not having a good time. There really isn't any quests available, the goblin spawn is camped, and when I tried migrating to another camp I found on a resource website I was ganked repeatedly. Since I have no guild I have to just tough it out, kind of reminds me of my first days in 0.0 Eve space. I enjoy looking over my shoulder every now & then. But the game is getting repetitive, limited, and boring.
So this is when I decide to use a little imagination and MAKE the game fun.
First I do some information gathering, I start with some simple information such as: which are the nearest big guilds, who controls what lands, and who will or has declared war on who. Then later delve further into my research and get names from these leaders and mercenary groups. From my years in Eve I have learned that information can be QUITE valuable, and the DF community is quite arrogant and talkative, so much of this info was quite easy to find. Common sense helps me separate what is fact from rumor (as well as a couple stops to the DF forums)
I pack what little equipment I have left and I head on out to find adventure and do some exploring. After doing some initial naked scouting I find some avenues less traveled and carefully plot my escape from newbie land. And I am off!
After about 18 minutes of traveling I am quite excited I didn't get ganked once. My plan worked! My careful preperation paid off (a sense of personal accomplishment) This is something no quest line can reward me with.
So I continue on my journey and spot a couple of enemies not too far off, approximately four from what I can see. Friend or foe? Using the information I gathered before heading off into unchartered territory I notice this particular guild is very far from its home. What could they be doing here? Hmmm. So I enter stealth mode by carefully using my environment to hide myself hoping I go unnoticed. They make a few awkward pauses and eventually head the opposite way from me. IT WORKED! (another sense of personal accomplishment) And I make a mad dash for it....
Couple of minutes later I run into a roaming war party from a different guild, and needless to say they are very unhappy to see me treading on their guild's land. They swiftly chase me down. Clearly from their shiney armor and mounts I am out-skilled here, so I plead with them while running for my life. I quickly shout (capslock) "Don't shoot, I come with important news!"
After a few well placed arrows in my rear end they noticed that I am unguilded and decided to stop chase and allow me to speak. Thank goodness, because what I can offer them is far more valuable then what pathetic equipment they'd loot from my corpse, and I quickly let them in on it. You see, those four roamers from a different guild I encountered earlier were actually a scouting party from an opposing guild who I already knew were planning to declare war on the guild I am facing now. Once again, the sense of player accomplishment kicks in because all that information gathering I did before heading out just paid off tenfold, and quite possibly saved my equipment from disappearing into the hands of strangers, so I hope.
After a few minutes of intense waiting while the war party holds a quick conference amongst themselves, they decide to take me to one of their officers and explain in detail what I saw and more importantly who I saw and from what direction they came from. Eventually this guild was so impressed by my assertiveness, that they used me as a scout for 3 days as some sort of recruiting process, and eventually embraced me into their ranks.
So what started out as just an ordinary adventure out into the wilderness ended up being the beginning of my adventures with my new in-game family. And all it took was a little imagination and clever thinking.
If you say make IT fun then you're implying that the game in and of itself isn't fun, and that you're required to go outside of what's provided for you, in this case your imagination, to make IT fun.
I've played Darkfall and I can tell you first hand that this is true. The game is not fun. But, honestly, is an empty sandbox with only 3 sides fun? It's the toys that you you play with in the sandbox that makes it fun. Unfortunately, all of the toys in the Darkfall sandbox are either broken, extremely boring, or didn't make it to release.
So what do you do when all of the toys you're given to play with either aren't there or aren't any fun. Well I guess you would eat the sand... and we all know what happens then. That's right..... worms.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Never judge a game by its forums. Fallout 3, World of Warcraft and countless others have proven that mostly only whiners tend to visit them. It's the same reason why surveys often come back with a resounding negative; people are more likely to voice their opinion on a product when they don't like it or feel wronged as opposed to when they're content. Everyone who LIKES the game and finds it fun is probably in-game playing it instead of reading forums anyway. I only started Darkfall yesterday, so I can't say for sure how long it'll hold my attention, but I reiterate: forums are a bad place to get opinions on a game.
In your opinion.
I think they're pretty good places to get information from, however you do have to sort the wheat from the chaffe.
Like any game, DF has fans and detractors, and the poll results reflect that.
Don't confuse legitimate complaints about DF's incomplete feature set (compared to other games) with "whines" that have no basis in fact.
Fact is, DF is game with a strong combat element that looks quite fun. Also seems to be lacking on the "world simulation" side and that might come with time.
It is a fact that the DF community is quite hostile, they make us EVE players look like nice guys, (thanks for stepping to the front btw) and if people playing the game had any sense they'd really try to help new players quickly integrate themselves into the game so they have fun and keep playing (like EVE University does) rather than prey on them
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's more fun, being read a story or remembering all the stories you've read, and being given the tools to let your imagination run wild? Both are fun, but I do feel sorry for those with a lack of creativity.
I do photo realistic art, I paint, write poetry, songs. I have a library of books over a hundred, and a comic book collection that numbered over a thousand. I played palladium PnP games like Heroes Unlimitted, Rifts, Ninjas and Super Spies, TMNT, and was more often then not the GM.
I do hope the comment about creativity wasn't directed at me.
Cause that would be like...
funny.
RFLMAO...dude,you do realize you just totally contradicted yourself?
If you do not see why,let me ask,did someone read the books for you?did someone write the books and poetry for you?When you read a book does it create the fun or do you use your own imagination?because that is what book reading is all about.
The statement is pretty much 50/50,it is up to the game to give you the opportunity to create fun and 50%the users choice.I could probably post quite a number of examples,but if you pay attention to gaming at all,you will have noticed that MOST,i would say 99% of the gamers,IGNORE the creativity in a game and go for nothing more than SPEED leveling.There is VERY few that want to do the fun and the developers creativity ,they just want to see how fast they can level up.So MOST have no business at all crying about fun,when they choose to play the games in the most simplistic boring manner,that i could think of.Only way you can make a game more boring is like what EVE does,put a checkmark in a box and get a skill ..lmao.
How often do you hear people in your clan/guild go,i just finished so and so quest? then count how many times players say "level 25...level 30..level 40....ding level 50.YES it is up to the players to create the fun,and most are choosing to make gaming utter BORING,so no wonder so many gamers are unhappy with games,they have no clue how to actually play a game.To most of the gamers,they think gaming is all about the levels,geesh they would be lost if a game had no levels..lol.It would be like your book analogy with no thesis ,no plot,no grammar,no creativity...or like the reader skipping right to the last chapter to get ending and skip the story.
I think maybe you don't really understand what contradict means.
I make a comment about having seen, on mutliple occaions, people say that you have to use your imagination to make DF fun.
Someone responds by essentially telling me I'm not creative because I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't have to use your imagination to make a game fun; that was the job of the developers.
I then point out that, quite on the contrary I'm a very creative person; art is a VERY big part of my life.
How exactly did I contradict myself?
Reading a book has nothing to do with playing a video game. There is no comparing the two.
And to point out that a poorly written book doesn't get any better the more you imagine the story.
Or perhaps you don't understand the responsibility of the artist.
An auther CREATES the world for you. The draw you into the story. An auther who does his job correctly doesn't need you to consciously imagine what's happening, they INDUCE, and STIMULATE your imagination. A good author draws you in and CAPTURES your imagination.
A video game shold do the same. It should capture your imagination; not REQUIRE you to use it to MAKE the game fun.
It's the developers responsibility to use thier imagination to create a game that will draw you in and capture your imagination.
Comments
Ive seen the "stupid and weak" reference made here by a few of the fanbots. Is this like botspeak? You in fact sound exactally like Javac. Which I find, very very amusing. Its too bad people whom have played are QQing on the forums as you say, since most of them have some very critical thoughs about the state of Darkfall. And frankly I love to hear from people whom played, because unlike you, these people do post topics worthy of discussion. You on the other hand simply dismiss anyone not praising the game as ... stupid, and weak. Oh the store sold out line was overused javac...err...whomever you really are.
Oh and you really would be full of it asserting a games own forums are NOT the place to seek information...thats just...STOOPID.
This is a blatant lie. Please do not let fanbots on forums fill your heads with lies. Unattended macroing is illegal, 3rd party programs to autoloot are illegal and a bannable offense and EVERYONE I ENCOUNTERED IN GAME USES IT.
You missed the entire point of the post.
Saying DF is level-less is a false statement. You are basically leveling skills individually, that's the BORING part. Every forum I visit I keep seeing people saying it is boring but not explaining why, mainly because they do not understand the way gaming mechanics work, they just know what feels fun and what doesn't.
I will explain why they feel like this:
The player feels bored because the system leaves the player with NO SENSE OF PLAYER ACCOMPLISHMENT.
Follow me closely: Every skill is broken up into 4 levels (thats pretty lame) broken into increments of 25. People feel no sense of "getting stronger" with every skill level they gain until they gain access to a new skill (which ends up being either broken and/or unbalanced or weak) or they reach one of the 4 levels. They only see an improvement at every 25 skill lvls. So from 1-24 you feel NOTHING. That is where the boring part comes. I'm sure this will be fixed one day.
So instead of hearing "ding 1, 2, 3, 4" in chat every so often, instead you see people boasting about the skill level every 25 increments "ding 25, 50, 75, 100". Its the SAME THING coated in a different wrapper. How can you NOT see this? I am sure AV will fix this one day. As well as the simple fact that at higher skill levels alot of spells are STILL broken and/or unbalanced.
Now some people will try to throw Eve online in this subject and try to say its the same thing. It's not, in Eve every rank of skill level you achieve you DO have a sense of accomplishment because most of the times a new gaming option opens up, you are able to pilot a new ship, or gain access to a new set of skills, etc etc. And the best part is you do not have to be online to accomplish this, therefore no afk macroers.
DF has missed the most important factor in an mmo and in gaming in general. Sense of accomplishment. They keep telling their players to use their imagination. Everyone keeps hearing that the game is what you make it. The OP basically is saying that you shouldn't be forced to use your imagination to make a game exciting. This is where I disagree.
Now some of the fabots are trying to make a point to the OP but unfortunately are going about it the wrong way. So I will try to further elaborate with an example:
I am running around DF one night, getting ganked, constantly hearing some moron make random chuck norris jokes, and people bitch and complain in chat about getting dc'ed because of some issue, I don't know and I don't care.
Clearly I am not having a good time. There really isn't any quests available, the goblin spawn is camped, and when I tried migrating to another camp I found on a resource website I was ganked repeatedly. Since I have no guild I have to just tough it out, kind of reminds me of my first days in 0.0 Eve space. I enjoy looking over my shoulder every now & then. But the game is getting repetitive, limited, and boring.
So this is when I decide to use a little imagination and MAKE the game fun.
First I do some information gathering, I start with some simple information such as: which are the nearest big guilds, who controls what lands, and who will or has declared war on who. Then later delve further into my research and get names from these leaders and mercenary groups. From my years in Eve I have learned that information can be QUITE valuable, and the DF community is quite arrogant and talkative, so much of this info was quite easy to find. Common sense helps me separate what is fact from rumor (as well as a couple stops to the DF forums)
I pack what little equipment I have left and I head on out to find adventure and do some exploring. After doing some initial naked scouting I find some avenues less traveled and carefully plot my escape from newbie land. And I am off!
After about 18 minutes of traveling I am quite excited I didn't get ganked once. My plan worked! My careful preperation paid off (a sense of personal accomplishment) This is something no quest line can reward me with.
So I continue on my journey and spot a couple of enemies not too far off, approximately four from what I can see. Friend or foe? Using the information I gathered before heading off into unchartered territory I notice this particular guild is very far from its home. What could they be doing here? Hmmm. So I enter stealth mode by carefully using my environment to hide myself hoping I go unnoticed. They make a few awkward pauses and eventually head the opposite way from me. IT WORKED! (another sense of personal accomplishment) And I make a mad dash for it....
Couple of minutes later I run into a roaming war party from a different guild, and needless to say they are very unhappy to see me treading on their guild's land. They swiftly chase me down. Clearly from their shiney armor and mounts I am out-skilled here, so I plead with them while running for my life. I quickly shout (capslock) "Don't shoot, I come with important news!"
After a few well placed arrows in my rear end they noticed that I am unguilded and decided to stop chase and allow me to speak. Thank goodness, because what I can offer them is far more valuable then what pathetic equipment they'd loot from my corpse, and I quickly let them in on it. You see, those four roamers from a different guild I encountered earlier were actually a scouting party from an opposing guild who I already knew were planning to declare war on the guild I am facing now. Once again, the sense of player accomplishment kicks in because all that information gathering I did before heading out just paid off tenfold, and quite possibly saved my equipment from disappearing into the hands of strangers, so I hope.
After a few minutes of intense waiting while the war party holds a quick conference amongst themselves, they decide to take me to one of their officers and explain in detail what I saw and more importantly who I saw and from what direction they came from. Eventually this guild was so impressed by my assertiveness, that they used me as a scout for 3 days as some sort of recruiting process, and eventually embraced me into their ranks.
So what started out as just an ordinary adventure out into the wilderness ended up being the beginning of my adventures with my new in-game family. And all it took was a little imagination and clever thinking.
I've played Darkfall and I can tell you first hand that this is true. The game is not fun. But, honestly, is an empty sandbox with only 3 sides fun? It's the toys that you you play with in the sandbox that makes it fun. Unfortunately, all of the toys in the Darkfall sandbox are either broken, extremely boring, or didn't make it to release.
So what do you do when all of the toys you're given to play with either aren't there or aren't any fun. Well I guess you would eat the sand... and we all know what happens then. That's right..... worms.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
In your opinion.
I think they're pretty good places to get information from, however you do have to sort the wheat from the chaffe.
Like any game, DF has fans and detractors, and the poll results reflect that.
Don't confuse legitimate complaints about DF's incomplete feature set (compared to other games) with "whines" that have no basis in fact.
Fact is, DF is game with a strong combat element that looks quite fun. Also seems to be lacking on the "world simulation" side and that might come with time.
It is a fact that the DF community is quite hostile, they make us EVE players look like nice guys, (thanks for stepping to the front btw) and if people playing the game had any sense they'd really try to help new players quickly integrate themselves into the game so they have fun and keep playing (like EVE University does) rather than prey on them
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I do photo realistic art, I paint, write poetry, songs. I have a library of books over a hundred, and a comic book collection that numbered over a thousand. I played palladium PnP games like Heroes Unlimitted, Rifts, Ninjas and Super Spies, TMNT, and was more often then not the GM.
I do hope the comment about creativity wasn't directed at me.
Cause that would be like...
funny.
RFLMAO...dude,you do realize you just totally contradicted yourself?
If you do not see why,let me ask,did someone read the books for you?did someone write the books and poetry for you?When you read a book does it create the fun or do you use your own imagination?because that is what book reading is all about.
The statement is pretty much 50/50,it is up to the game to give you the opportunity to create fun and 50%the users choice.I could probably post quite a number of examples,but if you pay attention to gaming at all,you will have noticed that MOST,i would say 99% of the gamers,IGNORE the creativity in a game and go for nothing more than SPEED leveling.There is VERY few that want to do the fun and the developers creativity ,they just want to see how fast they can level up.So MOST have no business at all crying about fun,when they choose to play the games in the most simplistic boring manner,that i could think of.Only way you can make a game more boring is like what EVE does,put a checkmark in a box and get a skill ..lmao.
How often do you hear people in your clan/guild go,i just finished so and so quest? then count how many times players say "level 25...level 30..level 40....ding level 50.YES it is up to the players to create the fun,and most are choosing to make gaming utter BORING,so no wonder so many gamers are unhappy with games,they have no clue how to actually play a game.To most of the gamers,they think gaming is all about the levels,geesh they would be lost if a game had no levels..lol.It would be like your book analogy with no thesis ,no plot,no grammar,no creativity...or like the reader skipping right to the last chapter to get ending and skip the story.
I think maybe you don't really understand what contradict means.
I make a comment about having seen, on mutliple occaions, people say that you have to use your imagination to make DF fun.
Someone responds by essentially telling me I'm not creative because I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't have to use your imagination to make a game fun; that was the job of the developers.
I then point out that, quite on the contrary I'm a very creative person; art is a VERY big part of my life.
How exactly did I contradict myself?
Reading a book has nothing to do with playing a video game. There is no comparing the two.
And to point out that a poorly written book doesn't get any better the more you imagine the story.
Or perhaps you don't understand the responsibility of the artist.
An auther CREATES the world for you. The draw you into the story. An auther who does his job correctly doesn't need you to consciously imagine what's happening, they INDUCE, and STIMULATE your imagination. A good author draws you in and CAPTURES your imagination.
A video game shold do the same. It should capture your imagination; not REQUIRE you to use it to MAKE the game fun.
It's the developers responsibility to use thier imagination to create a game that will draw you in and capture your imagination.