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Penny Arcade comic : Homosexuality in Star Wars: The Old Republic

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Comments

  • karat76karat76 Member UncommonPosts: 1,000
    Originally posted by blackthornn

    Originally posted by Pyrostasis


    The only time I think sexual preference matters is if you are cybering, and last time I checked, most games allow the use of profanity and derrogatory terms via pm...which is where sexual preference, politics, and religion should stay in relation to a game forum and community.

    yup, because 95% of the time that girl ppl are cybering is really a girl, umm wait, nope, "she"'s not.  Usually it's some dork (straight) playing a female trying to get hand outs of gear/cash/etc (no, alot of guys play female toon, often for the "if I have to look at a butt wiggling on my screen when I play it'll damnwell be a female butt I'm staring at", but those who hide their true gender and play along (and encourage cybor) are either looking for a laugh or after an easy ride thru the game imo).  I've known way too many of my RL aquantiences pull this crap on WoW and EQ, it's pretty sickening really.

     

    Regarding the sexuality in mmo's tho....

    I'm a straight, very happily married man, and I absolutely hate the "omg I'm so shy, please help me hook up with the village hottie" quests.  Personally I find them sadly pathetic.  I'd rather MMO's don't include this tripe regardless of gender of the npcs involved.   RP'ing relationships, intimate or not, is much more reasonable to find/do in rp guilds, rp chat channels and such.   i'm also not a fan of having my toon standing at the bank, looking for that quest item I banked 5 months ago incase I needed it (and now do) and having my chat box spammed from the next room with emotes of "Gabriella drops her bow, her chest heaving, staring at Ubertanker's rippling muscles" or "Dumbtart2 sighs in lust" (or the ever popular "oh oh uh oh"...yay Silvermoon City).  Keep it in channels or in tells, not like you can't create your own user channels in most games.  Oh, and finally, yes, it's reasonable to assume npc's have beds and would sleep now and then, but for crying out loud, please quit flooding cities with more beds than tables and chairs :P

    Silvermoon needs all the beds have you seen all the blood elves running around I swear they must pop out in litters.

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051

     

     Unfortunately it is common for some people to use words like gay, lesbian and homosexual as an insult.

     These words should not be silenced, people who use these words as insults should be.

     The idea that homosexuality (or any kind of sexuality) in a MMO is only expressed by cybering and "explicit" sexual content shows ignorance.

     

    ...

  • Crusix221Crusix221 Member UncommonPosts: 100

    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,650
    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.



     

    So Crusix, lets keep them in their "ghetto", right?

    What exacly he should do to "force any of it" on you?

    Talk about it?

    Use pink clothes in front of you?

    He would only "force" it on you if he... well, forced you into his desires...

    A gay character, a openly gay player will only add more options and flavor to a MMO, a lot of asian RPGs have gay characters, and a gay character will not foce hetero characters into "gayness"...

     

    ...

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051
    Originally posted by Laughing-man


     
    "center stage"
    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.



     

    Yeah, "center stage" was really funny.

    ...

  • ZoomzooZoomzoo Member Posts: 82

    I'm scratching my head tring to figure out what the issue is...

    You want to be in game and give flowers to your gay lover?  Go ahead.  You want to blow him a kiss?  Go ahead.   You want to dance with him?  Go ahead.  You want to flirt with him?  Go ahead.  You want to go into a hotel room in one of the main cities and close the door and pretend like you're busily engaged?  Go ahead. 

    You don't want to go on quests that entail rescuing wives or girlfriend?  Then don't.

    Probably the only thing two guys can't do in game is get married.  Is that the complaint?

    Zoom

     

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896

    This topic has ranged far and wide. I believe the original objection was to the banning of the word "gay". As we all know, the immature use that word as an insult, as in "that's so gay" i.e. stupid. To me the issue here is Bioware being known for including romantic relationships in their games, and claiming that you can romance your npc "pets" in TOR. Does that include the same-sex ones? And if not, that is discriminatory, and insulting to us homosexuals. It is not equal.

    Secondly, to those who tell us to create a gay guild and shut up, well most games will not allow you to advertise a guild as a "gay" guild because it discriminates against non-gays. That was Blizzard's stance. So that is not a viable option. And yet we still want to feel comfortable and included in the world in which we invest so much of our time. So stop telling us to leave it out of gaming when everyone's sexuality is all pervasive. Most straight people just don't notice because they don't need to swim against the tide. They can go with the flow.

    image
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,650
    Originally posted by Senadina


    This topic has ranged far and wide. I believe the original objection was to the banning of the word "gay". As we all know, the immature use that word as an insult, as in "that's so gay" i.e. stupid. To me the issue here is Bioware being known for including romantic relationships in their games, and claiming that you can romance your npc "pets" in TOR. Does that include the same-sex ones? And if not, that is discriminatory, and insulting to us homosexuals. It is not equal.
    Secondly, to those who tell us to create a gay guild and shut up, well most games will not allow you to advertise a guild as a "gay" guild because it discriminates against non-gays. That was Blizzard's stance. So that is not a viable option. And yet we still want to feel comfortable and included in the world in which we invest so much of our time. So stop telling us to leave it out of gaming when everyone's sexuality is all pervasive. Most straight people just don't notice because they don't need to swim against the tide. They can go with the flow.

     

    couldn't have put it better myself.

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • veritas_Xveritas_X Member Posts: 393
    Originally posted by Zoomzoo


    I'm scratching my head tring to figure out what the issue is...
    You want to be in game and give flowers to your gay lover?  Go ahead.  You want to blow him a kiss?  Go ahead.   You want to dance with him?  Go ahead.  You want to flirt with him?  Go ahead.  You want to go into a hotel room in one of the main cities and close the door and pretend like you're busily engaged?  Go ahead. 
    You don't want to go on quests that entail rescuing wives or girlfriend?  Then don't.
    Probably the only thing two guys can't do in game is get married.  Is that the complaint?
    Zoom
     

     

    I have to agree with this, there really is no issue here other than a minority group getting some attention from Penny Arcade, and apparently having their appetite whetted for more.

    As with any other group of gamers who think theyir special needs aren't being serviced and are more important than the majority's,  feel free to finance your own mmo.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,650
    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    You didn't bother to even read the person's post... he was going on explaining how his friend does not want attention or to have center stage.

    My response is that no one was asking for "attention" they were asking for equality.

    How can you make the judgement call if its not hurtful or biased unless your on the receiving end?

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051
    Originally posted by veritas_X


     
    As with any other group of gamers who think theyir special needs aren't being serviced and are more important than the majority's,  feel free to finance your own mmo.



    It is not a matter of "more or less important than the majority", but a matter of exclusion.

     

     

    ...

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    You're right, it doesn't infringe upon any rights, but it is offensive. Imagine how you'd feel if some essential part of your identity was flagged as an offensive word?

    There is no reason the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' need to be filtered as vulgarity. If the makers of any MMO want to say "hey, we don't like homo's so we're filtering out those words from our site" that would at least be honest. But I'm willing to wager that the creators of SW:TOR don't have an anti-gay bias, thus the filtering of these words are merely offensive and ignorant.

  • veritas_Xveritas_X Member Posts: 393
    Originally posted by Umbral

    Originally posted by veritas_X


     
    As with any other group of gamers who think theyir special needs aren't being serviced and are more important than the majority's,  feel free to finance your own mmo.



    It is not a matter of "more important than the majority", but a matter of exclusion.

     

    ...

     

    Eh, what you call exclusion I call a business decision.  This is a free market and no one is required to make sure your views get equal treatment.  When developers decide that homosexual content will result in increased revenue, you'll see it take off, not before.  Unless you make your own game/content, like I said.  Its basic supply and demand.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by lugal 
    Now, if you want to have a guild for gays, by all means do it. Hope its more succesful than most.

     

    Making a group the only allows gay members is just as discriminatory as a group that only allows straights.  Things like that set social progress back by decades. 

    It doesn't sound like that is exactly what you meant and not to single you out, but I just wanted to drop that into the conversation.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    This should help the conversation along:  Jedi Sex Scandal

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    Hang on a second.

     

    A company made around decisions in game that affect how you play  correct?  So why can't I choose another female if I so choose in game? Why can't you choose whatever the heck you like?  Choosing your preference at anytime should be what you want, not what someone else thinks is right or wrong.

     

    To a more direct thought on what was said/the forums/etc...

    As much as some people might prefer to let homosexuality and other things be known on a public forum, it is not the most smart thing to do for a game at this time.  Because you have Gays/Lesbians/Bisexual people fighting with people who "Know" that being that way is wrong, and will fight tooth and nail about any matter relating to that.  That gives bad publicity.

    I see no problem basically ignoring it till the game is released, and go from their if issues pop up.

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    You're right, it doesn't infringe upon any rights, but it is offensive. Imagine how you'd feel if some essential part of your identity was flagged as an offensive word?

    There is no reason the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' need to be filtered as vulgarity. If the makers of any MMO want to say "hey, we don't like homo's so we're filtering out those words from our site" that would at least be honest. But I'm willing to wager that the creators of SW:TOR don't have an anti-gay bias, thus the filtering of these words are merely offensive and ignorant.

    How is it offensive? The people at Bioware decided to filter a word that is often used as a derogatory slander from their forums. There is nothing offensive about it. Grow a damn skin, and stop trying to draw attention on yourselves because you are "unique".

    Sexuality isn't an identity, no matter how hard some people push to make it one.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • Crusix221Crusix221 Member UncommonPosts: 100

    Filtering on the forum I think is wrong I can agree with you on that. What I ment by my friend is well for example we're a fraternity made up of men. All of us except him are straight and we have mixers with soroities made up of all girls. He never complains or says we have to have some with fraternities because hes gay. He does not rag on us for being who we are and our organization functioning as it is and it not having enough homosexual things for him. I'm simply saying its a Star Wars game; would it be ok for there to be some gay stuff in there, yes it would be fine but honestly have you seen it anywhere else in the franchise? Should women be pissed at Tolkien for not having say a witch (female magic users and lets not nerd battle over weather there were or not)? Theres a difference between being politically correct and searching for issues thats all I'm saying.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Swanea


    Hang on a second.
     
    A company made around decisions in game that affect how you play  correct?  So why can't I choose another female if I so choose in game? Why can't you choose whatever the heck you like?  Choosing your preference at anytime should be what you want, not what someone else thinks is right or wrong.
     
    To a more direct thought on what was said/the forums/etc...
    As much as some people might prefer to let homosexuality and other things be known on a public forum, it is not the most smart thing to do for a game at this time.  Because you have Gays/Lesbians/Bisexual people fighting with people who "Know" that being that way is wrong, and will fight tooth and nail about any matter relating to that.  That gives bad publicity.
    I see no problem basically ignoring it till the game is released, and go from their if issues pop up.

     

    Let me make sure I understand you. You think it would be a bad idea for gay people to self-identify as gay because it would encourage fighting in the game amongst the players?

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    You're right, it doesn't infringe upon any rights, but it is offensive. Imagine how you'd feel if some essential part of your identity was flagged as an offensive word?

    There is no reason the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' need to be filtered as vulgarity. If the makers of any MMO want to say "hey, we don't like homo's so we're filtering out those words from our site" that would at least be honest. But I'm willing to wager that the creators of SW:TOR don't have an anti-gay bias, thus the filtering of these words are merely offensive and ignorant.

    How is it offensive? The people at Bioware decided to filter a word that is often used as a derogatory slander from their forums. There is nothing offensive about it. Grow a damn skin, and stop trying to draw attention on yourselves because you are "unique".

    Sexuality isn't an identity, no matter how hard some people push to make it one.

     

    Sexuality is definitely an identity. Its just that being straight is such the entrenched majority, most fail to see or notice its expression in almost everything we say or do.

    Its offensive because Bioware chooses to accept only the derogatory intent. The word itself isn't derogatory, its merely often used in a derogatory way. That people choose to use it in a derogatory fashion shouldn't be the determining factor in its exclusion.

    It has nothing to do with being 'unique' it has more to do with gaining acceptance. If it was about being unique gay people would, I imagine, support anything that marginalizes them.

  • UmbralUmbral Member Posts: 1,051
    Originally posted by veritas_X


     
    Eh, what you call exclusion I call a business decision.  This is a free market and no one is required to make sure your views get equal treatment.  When developers decide that homosexual content will result in increased revenue, you'll see it take off, not before.  Unless you make your own game/content, like I said.  Its basic supply and demand.



    It doesn't matter if its business decision or bad forum management it reflect social ideas and misconceptions and we should express our opinion about it.

    Arguments like "As with any other group of gamers who think theyir special needs aren't being serviced and are more important than the majority's" and "create your own game then" are not only simplistics but full of preconceptions.

    This is not about developers decisions,  it is common to see homosexual characters in asian games, Age of Conan has gay characters, EQ2 has a bit of homosexualism in some events...

    You should informe yourself about this subject before use the " go create your own game then" cliche.

    ...

     

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Swanea


    Hang on a second.
     
    A company made around decisions in game that affect how you play  correct?  So why can't I choose another female if I so choose in game? Why can't you choose whatever the heck you like?  Choosing your preference at anytime should be what you want, not what someone else thinks is right or wrong.
     
    To a more direct thought on what was said/the forums/etc...
    As much as some people might prefer to let homosexuality and other things be known on a public forum, it is not the most smart thing to do for a game at this time.  Because you have Gays/Lesbians/Bisexual people fighting with people who "Know" that being that way is wrong, and will fight tooth and nail about any matter relating to that.  That gives bad publicity.
    I see no problem basically ignoring it till the game is released, and go from their if issues pop up.

     

    Let me make sure I understand you. You think it would be a bad idea for gay people to self-identify as gay because it would encourage fighting in the game amongst the players?

    At this point in the release, I think it would be bad for bioware to let something that should be no problem whatso ever, but has already called this huge stink, to go.  You are more than welcome to scream from the trees on those boards that you or any of your friends are. I just don't think bioware should allow discussion upon any sort of real discussion about it.  Discussion leads to fighting on 99% of boards, as people can never get along.

    And You must have a MUCH higher opinion of people if you think that people won't troll/make fun of/etc people who announce it.

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Crusix221


    I don't think unless its fits into the game that homosexuality should have to be in the game. As others said its a minority in our everyday why do we have to give it center stage in a game? One of my fraternity brothers is gay and we execpt his life style but he doesn't force any of it on us because it shouldn't be. Have a gay guild, RP with other gays, I won't complain but to tell a developer they are not including you is wrong. If homosexuality fit into the plot then it would be in there. Its like having different history months for different races, its not neccisary it history for god's sake its all inclusive. The Star Wars world is all inclusive homosexuality isnt huge so its not huge in game, doesn't make it wrong its just how it is.

     

    "center stage"

    Hes not asking for center stage, hes asking for equal rights.

    LOL come on...

    Having the word "gay" on a privately owned forum filtered out isn't infringing on anyones rights. Quit whining about things just for the sake of whining.

    You're right, it doesn't infringe upon any rights, but it is offensive. Imagine how you'd feel if some essential part of your identity was flagged as an offensive word?

    There is no reason the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' need to be filtered as vulgarity. If the makers of any MMO want to say "hey, we don't like homo's so we're filtering out those words from our site" that would at least be honest. But I'm willing to wager that the creators of SW:TOR don't have an anti-gay bias, thus the filtering of these words are merely offensive and ignorant.

    How is it offensive? The people at Bioware decided to filter a word that is often used as a derogatory slander from their forums. There is nothing offensive about it. Grow a damn skin, and stop trying to draw attention on yourselves because you are "unique".

    Sexuality isn't an identity, no matter how hard some people push to make it one.

     

    Sexuality is definitely an identity. Its just that being straight is such the entrenched majority, most fail to see or notice its expression in almost everything we say or do.

    Its offensive because Bioware chooses to accept only the derogatory intent. The word itself isn't derogatory, its merely often used in a derogatory way. That people choose to use it in a derogatory fashion shouldn't be the determining factor in its exclusion.

    It has nothing to do with being 'unique' it has more to do with gaining acceptance. If it was about being unique gay people would, I imagine, support anything that marginalizes them.

     

    Sexuality is only an identity for those that push it to be an identity, for what reason I'm not quite sure(or are those lisps that magically appear natural?). It's just another case of someone or a group of people taking something that they deem makes them unique, and pushing it on everyone else as a defining characteristic of themselves. 

    If it is only used in a derogatory sense, then what would they address other uses for? What could you possibly need to use the words gay or lesbian for on a Star Wars MMO forum? There is nothing offensive about it. People just like to go out of their way to find something to whine about.

     

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

This discussion has been closed.