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PC for current and next gen MMOs?

AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

Hi,

I currently mostly play Warcraft. My PC is 3-4 years old, and whilst it has coped pretty well in the past, it's starting to show it's age with the latest expansion. For example, I get huge lag whenever I enter the city of Dalaran.

 

So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion.

 

Generally I'm more likely to play either pure PvE or mixed PvE/PvP games. I avoid FPS games, such as Doom and Quake, since they tend to give me motion sickness. So I'm also likely to avoid releases of FPS oriented MMOs, such as Huxley.

 

I'm currently looking at a PC with specs such as this:

* Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz CPU

* Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Motherboard

* 896MB nVidia GTX 260 PCI Express Graphics Card

* 3GB (3 x 1GB) Kingston PC10600 1333Mhz DDR3 Ram

* 750GB 7200rpm SATA II Hard Drive

 

If I wanted to get the most for my MMO buck, what would be the most cost-efficient way of improving this. More RAM? Better CPU? Better graphics card?

 

I'd also be likely to order the PC pre-built . I've built my own PC before, and in my opinion, unless you're a student and desparately short of cash, it's simply not worth the hassle of building PCs on a one-off basis.

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Comments

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    Hi,
    I currently mostly play Warcraft. My PC is 3-4 years old, and whilst it has coped pretty well in the past, it's starting to show it's age with the latest expansion. For example, I get huge lag whenever I enter the city of Dalaran.
     
    So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion.
     
    Generally I'm more likely to play either pure PvE or mixed PvE/PvP games. I avoid FPS games, such as Doom and Quake, since they tend to give me motion sickness. So I'm also likely to avoid releases of FPS oriented MMOs, such as Huxley.
     
    I'm currently looking at a PC with specs such as this:
    * Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz CPU

    * Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Motherboard

    * 896MB nVidia GTX 260 PCI Express Graphics Card

    * 3GB (3 x 1GB) Kingston PC10600 1333Mhz DDR3 Ram

    * 750GB 7200rpm SATA II Hard Drive
     
    If I wanted to get the most for my MMO buck, what would be the most cost-efficient way of improving this. More RAM? Better CPU? Better graphics card?
     
    I'd also be likely to order the PC pre-built . I've built my own PC before, and in my opinion, unless you're a student and desparately short of cash, it's simply not worth the hassle of building PCs on a one-off basis.



     

    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362
    Originally posted by Agricola1

     

    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

     

    That's not something I'd considered beforehand. I wouldn't have though hard drive speed would be a major constraint on MMO performance, after the initial start up time. Is it?

     

    The suggestion about RAM is interesting. From a quick check, it appears upgrading to 3 x 2 GB (1600) would add almost 20% to the system cost. So the question would be - is it worth it?

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by Antipathy

    Originally posted by Agricola1

     

    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

     

    That's not something I'd considered beforehand. I wouldn't have though hard drive speed would be a major constraint on MMO performance, after the initial start up time. Is it?

     

    The suggestion about RAM is interesting. From a quick check, it appears upgrading to 3 x 2 GB (1600) would add almost 20% to the system cost. So the question would be - is it worth it?



     

    I'm not sure if a RAID0 would help but I'll be trying it with my next system. About the RAM, if you have a 64 bit OS then I think you should take advatage of it. Kingston RAM is OK but you could get Corsair RAM with DHX (RAM + a heatsink) 2X2GB for about £60 in the UK and it'll be cheaper if you live in the U.S.A. I think you should if you have the cash, but if you're happy with 3X1GB and can wait for DDR3 prices to drop then wait. DDR3 prices will drop and you don't need more than 3GB to play an MMORPG.

    In short if you have the extra and want to spend it on your system, do so. If not wait for the price of DDR3 to fall.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • Dreadknot357Dreadknot357 Member Posts: 148
    Originally posted by Antipathy

    Originally posted by Agricola1

     

    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

     

    That's not something I'd considered beforehand. I wouldn't have though hard drive speed would be a major constraint on MMO performance, after the initial start up time. Is it?

     

    The suggestion about RAM is interesting. From a quick check, it appears upgrading to 3 x 2 GB (1600) would add almost 20% to the system cost. So the question would be - is it worth it?

    well right off the bat you need 6 gigs  tripple channel ram for the X58.  1600 is key for over clocking i picked up a set of XMS for $99

     

    I was able to set an OC on that chip to 4.2 g on air.  with my ram  just below  1600  with 9.9.9.24 1t

    Split that Hard drive and pick up 2 WD 380g Blues  and Raid 0 them.  i just set that up for my buddy yesterday....

    Raid 0 is always a must... in a gaming PC's

    you will not even tap that PC performance at all with an MMO except for Conan.

    So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion

    I have played all these games in the last few days with my new I7 setup.   "without to many problems?"    lol  Dont worry

    I can max all of them with Vsync @ 60 frames

    do not go with kingston ram....if your going to shell out that kind of money already.......  dont put stock tires on a race car.

    i just built this a few days ago


     

     i have stable...with Prime95

    Average Temps

    CPU 70c

    VREG 70c

    SYS 32c

    core 1 avg. 81c 79c-85c Max

    core 2 avg. 81c 79c-85c Max

    core 3 avg. 80c 78c-84c Max

    core 4 avg. 81c 79c-84c Max

    BIOS SETTINGS



    Bios ( E758SZ27)

    Drivers ( 182.50 )

    Operating System ( Vista Home 64)

    Frequency Control

    CPU Clock Ratio ( 20X )

    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ( 200 )

    CPU Uncore Frequency (Mhz) ( 16x )

    Spread Spectrum ( Disabled )

    PCIE Frequency (Mhz) ( 100 )

    Memory Feature

    Memory Control Setting (Enabled )

    Memory Frequency ( 1067Mhz / 2:8)

    Channel Interleave Setting ( 6 Way )

    Rank Interleave Setting ( 4 Way )

    Memory Low Gap ( Auto )

    tCL Setting ( 9)

    tRCD Setting ( 9)

    tRP Setting ( 9)

    tRAS Setting ( 24)

    tRFC Setting ( 88)

    Command Rate ( 1T)

    Voltage Control

    EVGA VDroop Control ( Without VDroop )

    CPU VCore ( 1.28750v)

    CPU VTT Voltage ( +1750mv)

    CPU PLL VCore (Auto )

    DIMM Voltage ( 1.650v)

    DIMM DQ Vref ( +0 )

    QPI PLL VCore ( 1.125v )

    IOH VCore ( 1.125v )

    IOH/ICH I/O Voltage ( Auto )

    ICH VCore ( 1.175v )

    PWM Frequency ( 800Hz)

    CPU Feature

    Intel SpeedStep ( Disabled )

    Turbo Mode Function ( Enabled)

    CxE Function ( Disabled )

    Execute Disable Bit ( Disabled)

    Virtualization Technology ( Disabled)

    Intel HT Technology ( Enabled )

    Active Processor Cores ( All )

    QPI Control Settings ( Enabled )

    QPI Link Fast Mode ( Enabled )

    QPI Frequency Selection ( 4.8GT/s)



     

     

     

    Antec 1200 full tower

    i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air

    Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler

    EVGA x58 SLI MB

    Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T

    EVGA GTX 285 Stock

    WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0

    Corsiar h1000watt PSU

     

    Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200

    Wacom Cintq 21 inch digtal art monitor

    logitech G15 keayboard

    logitech MX laser mouse

    logitech 5.1suround

    "Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
    image
    image

  • Sir_DripSir_Drip Member Posts: 133
    Originally posted by Dreadknot357

    Originally posted by Antipathy

    Originally posted by Agricola1

     

    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

     

    That's not something I'd considered beforehand. I wouldn't have though hard drive speed would be a major constraint on MMO performance, after the initial start up time. Is it?

     

    The suggestion about RAM is interesting. From a quick check, it appears upgrading to 3 x 2 GB (1600) would add almost 20% to the system cost. So the question would be - is it worth it?

    well right off the bat you need 6 gigs  tripple channel ram for the X58.  1600 is key for over clocking i picked up a set of XMS for $99

     

    I was able to set an OC on that chip to 4.2 g on air.  with my ram  just below  1600  with 9.9.9.24 1t

    Split that Hard drive and pick up 2 WD 380g Blues  and Raid 0 them.  i just set that up for my buddy yesterday....

    Raid 0 is always a must... in a gaming PC's

    you will not even tap that PC performance at all with an MMO except for Conan.

    So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion

    I have played all these games in the last few days with my new I7 setup.   "without to many problems?"    lol  Dont worry

    I can max all of them with Vsync @ 60 frames

    do not go with kingston ram....if your going to shell out that kind of money already.......  dont put stock tires on a race car.

    i just built this a few days ago

     

     

     i have stable...with Prime95

    Average Temps

    CPU 70c

    VREG 70c

    SYS 32c

    core 1 avg. 81c 79c-85c Max

    core 2 avg. 81c 79c-85c Max

    core 3 avg. 80c 78c-84c Max

    core 4 avg. 81c 79c-84c Max

    BIOS SETTINGS



    Bios ( E758SZ27)

    Drivers ( 182.50 )

    Operating System ( Vista Home 64)

    Frequency Control

    CPU Clock Ratio ( 20X )

    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ( 200 )

    CPU Uncore Frequency (Mhz) ( 16x )

    Spread Spectrum ( Disabled )

    PCIE Frequency (Mhz) ( 100 )

    Memory Feature

    Memory Control Setting (Enabled )

    Memory Frequency ( 1067Mhz / 2:8)

    Channel Interleave Setting ( 6 Way )

    Rank Interleave Setting ( 4 Way )

    Memory Low Gap ( Auto )

    tCL Setting ( 9)

    tRCD Setting ( 9)

    tRP Setting ( 9)

    tRAS Setting ( 24)

    tRFC Setting ( 88)

    Command Rate ( 1T)

    Voltage Control

    EVGA VDroop Control ( Without VDroop )

    CPU VCore ( 1.28750v)

    CPU VTT Voltage ( +1750mv)

    CPU PLL VCore (Auto )

    DIMM Voltage ( 1.650v)

    DIMM DQ Vref ( +0 )

    QPI PLL VCore ( 1.125v )

    IOH VCore ( 1.125v )

    IOH/ICH I/O Voltage ( Auto )

    ICH VCore ( 1.175v )

    PWM Frequency ( 800Hz)

    CPU Feature

    Intel SpeedStep ( Disabled )

    Turbo Mode Function ( Enabled)

    CxE Function ( Disabled )

    Execute Disable Bit ( Disabled)

    Virtualization Technology ( Disabled)

    Intel HT Technology ( Enabled )

    Active Processor Cores ( All )

    QPI Control Settings ( Enabled )

    QPI Link Fast Mode ( Enabled )

    QPI Frequency Selection ( 4.8GT/s)



     

     

     

     

    Antec 1200 full tower

    i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air

    Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler

    EVGA x58 SLI MB

    Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T

    EVGA GTX 285 Stock

    WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0

    Corsiar h1000watt PSU

     

    Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200

    Wacom Cintq 21 inch digtal art monitor

    logitech G15 keayboard

    logitech MX laser mouse

    logitech 5.1suround



     

    You make me sick! lol...

    image

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Antipathy

    Originally posted by Agricola1
     
    My advice would be to get a set of RAM 3X2GB sticks at atleast 1600mhz something like Corsair or OCZ, also have a look at a sound card and maybe consider upgrafding that video card if you have any cash left over (the card is fine really). You may even consider getting a second hard disk and doing a RAID configuration, not sure if it would make a massive difference with such a fast system as that though but if you have the cash it can't hurt I suppose?

     
    That's not something I'd considered beforehand. I wouldn't have though hard drive speed would be a major constraint on MMO performance, after the initial start up time. Is it?
     
    The suggestion about RAM is interesting. From a quick check, it appears upgrading to 3 x 2 GB (1600) would add almost 20% to the system cost. So the question would be - is it worth it?


    Interestingly if you search around for RAID gaming benchmarks to check load time performance, it's actually a mixed bag. Some reviews show slightly different results but these resultss from Anandtech are common:
    http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2760&p=10
    http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2101&p=10


    The 1st benchmark shows a 7200rpm RAID0 vs 4 other hard drive setups including a single 7200 and a Raptor. For the 4 games they tested level load times the RAID actually places 1st, 3rd, 4th and last. 2nd benchmark shows a RAID0 Raptor II vs Raptor II single - the RAID0 ties on one game and actually loses to the single drive on the other (but barely).


    I actually use a RAID0 but after reading this info realized there is no benefit to RAID in normal usage - now I can CLEARLY see a difference when moving large files such as 8gb 1080p movies between drives - but for just gaming it's not a factor, so the decision is yours. I believe RAID0 SSD's are a different story though and even the ones that underperform at write speeds still have pretty fast read speeds which are generally what you notice (loading games, booting).


    As for memory, from everything I've seen RAM speeds only have a very small impact on gaming performance. Each step up in current ram speeds adds about 0.5 to 1 fps, and ram timings have even less of an impact so it doesn't really seem that important considering the cost involved compared to the GPU. If you can find a good deal on the faster RAM though you might as well, or if you get such a badass SLI setup that you need the faster RAM to power it..

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    I still don't fully understand what you guys are saying. My fault I know - I'm way out of date on the hardware side.

    Firstly, it's unclear to me if you're saying that RAID would affect the run time performance of MMOs or just the load time? Because if it's just the load time then I'm not to worried, since many games load reasonably quickly, and then are played for several hours. So disk speed seems to be considerably less important than for other applications (e.g. for a software development PC, good disk speed is vital). Of course, if you're building the ultimate gaming PC than that's another matter, but that's not what I'm after - I just want to play lag free. But the ultimate gaming PC would probably use solid state drives anyway...

    Also - why would memory brand make such a difference? I was under the impression that memory was a commodity.

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    I still don't fully understand what you guys are saying. My fault I know - I'm way out of date on the hardware side.
    Firstly, it's unclear to me if you're saying that RAID would affect the run time performance of MMOs or just the load time? Because if it's just the load time then I'm not to worried, since many games load reasonably quickly, and then are played for several hours. So disk speed seems to be considerably less important than for other applications (e.g. for a software development PC, good disk speed is vital). Of course, if you're building the ultimate gaming PC than that's another matter, but that's not what I'm after - I just want to play lag free. But the ultimate gaming PC would probably use solid state drives anyway...
    Also - why would memory brand make such a difference? I was under the impression that memory was a commodity.



     

    As said before with RAID0 it helps when reading and writing large amounts of information to and from the drive, wether it speeds up gaming is another thing. I've yet to see any conclusive proof myself it does, getting a good quality single drive is probably best and what I'm considering if it's around the same price as a RAID0 setup.

    RAM modules do vary, I've used Kingston in the past and it's fine at a cheap price. For a gaming rig you'll be playing for hours you'll want something like Corsair or the Corsair Dominator RAM. These modules have their own heat sinks so that performance doesn't degrade due to overheating during a long gaming session. I see it as a good investment that would perhaps lower the probability of RAM modules failing in the future due to heat.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    It sounds to me as if the system I already have in mind will be good enough in the short term. The company I'm buying from only offers Kingston, not Corsair RAM, and the cost of upgrading RAM through them will be quite high. So why pay that cost for Kingston RAM that you guys tell me is second-rate.

    So I'll probably stick to my original order, but I'll bare in mind the advice you guys have given me. In around a year's time, when games are a little more demanding, I'll upgrade the RAM myself, so I have 6 or even 9MB (depending on prices).

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    It sounds to me as if the system I already have in mind will be good enough in the short term. The company I'm buying from only offers Kingston, not Corsair RAM, and the cost of upgrading RAM through them will be quite high. So why pay that cost for Kingston RAM that you guys tell me is second-rate.
    So I'll probably stick to my original order, but I'll bare in mind the advice you guys have given me. In around a year's time, when games are a little more demanding, I'll upgrade the RAM myself, so I have 6 or even 9MB (depending on prices).



     

    Agreed, that seems to be the best course of action. DDR3 prices will drop and you won't need anything more than 3 gigs, you could always get an AMD Dragon platform setup and be left with the money you saved to get the RAM or a better video card, have you considered that?

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,299
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    Hi,
    I currently mostly play Warcraft. My PC is 3-4 years old, and whilst it has coped pretty well in the past, it's starting to show it's age with the latest expansion. For example, I get huge lag whenever I enter the city of Dalaran.
     
    So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion.
     
    Generally I'm more likely to play either pure PvE or mixed PvE/PvP games. I avoid FPS games, such as Doom and Quake, since they tend to give me motion sickness. So I'm also likely to avoid releases of FPS oriented MMOs, such as Huxley.
     
    I'm currently looking at a PC with specs such as this:
    * Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz CPU

    * Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Motherboard

    * 896MB nVidia GTX 260 PCI Express Graphics Card

    * 3GB (3 x 1GB) Kingston PC10600 1333Mhz DDR3 Ram

    * 750GB 7200rpm SATA II Hard Drive
     
    If I wanted to get the most for my MMO buck, what would be the most cost-efficient way of improving this. More RAM? Better CPU? Better graphics card?
     
    I'd also be likely to order the PC pre-built . I've built my own PC before, and in my opinion, unless you're a student and desparately short of cash, it's simply not worth the hassle of building PCs on a one-off basis.

     

    I never recomend buying the last technology. You will buy an overpriced processor. This is just my opinion of course.



  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Antipathy
    I still don't fully understand what you guys are saying. My fault I know - I'm way out of date on the hardware side.
    Firstly, it's unclear to me if you're saying that RAID would affect the run time performance of MMOs or just the load time? Because if it's just the load time then I'm not to worried, since many games load reasonably quickly, and then are played for several hours. So disk speed seems to be considerably less important than for other applications (e.g. for a software development PC, good disk speed is vital). Of course, if you're building the ultimate gaming PC than that's another matter, but that's not what I'm after - I just want to play lag free. But the ultimate gaming PC would probably use solid state drives anyway...
    Also - why would memory brand make such a difference? I was under the impression that memory was a commodity.


    Sorry I got off track a bit.


    A Raptor/SSD or RAID0 will not effect in-game performance once you are loaded up. A Raptor/SSD will always shave a few seconds off the load screen but a RAID0 may or may NOT depending on the game (in some cases it slows it down because of RAID overhead).


    RAID0 is generally only useful when dealing with long, contiguous reads/writes - copying large files from another drive or dealing with large files such as video editing. It also excels at artificial benchmarks that don't emulate real world usage by the average user.


    By your statement you should only bother with the 750gb 7200rpm hard drive you have picked out.

    Memory speed simply put only makes a difference if you are a performance freak trying to squeeze every drop out of a PC. Regular gaming does not require expensive memory. You DO want to buy a reputable brand that won't give you faulty ram though. I would just get 3gb (6gb if you multitask any) of DDR3-1333 (or 1600 if you find a good price) from a brand such as Corsair, OCZ, GSkill, Mushkin, or, yes, Kingston.


    Kingston has a lifetime warranty on their ram - even if their value ram isn't very overclockable it will work fine for you plus if it ever fails their RMA procedure is very easy.


    Dreadknot is trying to steer you toward RAM known for overclockability in which case brand and model are important - but the price tag goes up with it.

  • IronZIronZ Member Posts: 107

    Don't forget that you have to have a 64 bit OS to even use more than about 3gig of ram anyway.  Also, 32 bit software can't access more than 2gig so from strictly a game standpoint, I don't see them benefitting from 6-8 gigs of ram.  That being said, I ALWAYS buy the most I can when I build but I do more than game on my pc.  My i7 920 has 6 gig and it sails, lol. 

    Z

  • spindoc2k3spindoc2k3 Member Posts: 4

    If you have plans to run Windows Vista with your new rig, you will want to have 6gb of memory rather than 3.  I run nearly the exact seutp you have now and previously had 3gb of memory running Vista Ultimate 64-bit.  With the lesser amount of memory, my system ran a little sluggish but it was stable.  Now that I have 6gb, it is great. 

     

    I too bought a Corsair 6GB kit.  The only real way that I have seen performance increase in games when not running a raid config was by running a SAS drive on my primary system.  I run the Asus board that has a SAS controller built in along with a Core i7 920.  

    One thing IS for sure.  You will see a huge improvement with your new computer!

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    Hmm - so OS is important. Another thing I hadn't considered.

     

    I've got a reasonably free choice - XP, vista or vista 64

     

    According to Wikipaedia, Microsoft is due to drop support for XP in Juy 2010 (for non-security related stuff). Windows XP doesn't look like a good long term bet to me.

     

    How bad is Vista with 3GB of RAM? I want to know what I'd be getting myself into.

     

    How well would the performance of a 32 bit MMO running on Vista compare to the same 32-bit MMO running on Vista 64? Would it be faster, slower?

     

     

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by Antipathy


    Hmm - so OS is important. Another thing I hadn't considered.
     
    I've got a reasonably free choice - XP, vista or vista 64
     
    According to Wikipaedia, Microsoft is due to drop support for XP in Juy 2010 (for non-security related stuff). Windows XP doesn't look like a good long term bet to me.
     
    How bad is Vista with 3GB of RAM? I want to know what I'd be getting myself into.
     
    How well would the performance of a 32 bit MMO running on Vista compare to the same 32-bit MMO running on Vista 64? Would it be faster, slower?
     
     



     

    I'd go with Vista 64 bit, if you're going to have more than 3 GB of  RAM in the future and want to use DX 10, I think Vista should work fine with 3GB.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Antipathy
    Hmm - so OS is important. Another thing I hadn't considered.
     
    I've got a reasonably free choice - XP, vista or vista 64
     
    According to Wikipaedia, Microsoft is due to drop support for XP in Juy 2010 (for non-security related stuff). Windows XP doesn't look like a good long term bet to me.
     
    How bad is Vista with 3GB of RAM? I want to know what I'd be getting myself into.
     
    How well would the performance of a 32 bit MMO running on Vista compare to the same 32-bit MMO running on Vista 64? Would it be faster, slower?
     
     

    Games perform nearly exactly the same in Vista 32 and 64. 64 bit isn't really about speed per se, just the amount of data the system can deal with.


    What you should know is Vista 64 uses more ram than Vista 32 due to the difference in memory addressing. Because the only real advantage of 64bit is accessing beyond 4gb of ram, and that using a 64bit OS costs memory, you are actually better off using Vista 32 on 3gb of ram.


    WoW with 3gb will not feel cramped at all in either OS. Any modern MMO (AoC, Vanguard, etc) will be asking for ~1.5gb of memory though, which is going to result in some amount of disk paging and sluggishness if you alt-tab out while gaming, and having to wait for Vista to become responsive after you close the game. Vista 32 would give you a little extra room in this case. The game itself will run fine however.


    A Vista32 key is valid for Vista64 as well and Microsoft will send you the x64 DVD for around $10 if you can't get a hold of a copy to install off of yourself, which isn't hard to do.


    This gives you a few options - Use Vista32 with 3gb and switch to 64 if you add more ram later, use Vista64 on 3gb while you wait to get more ram, or order it with 6gb.

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362
    Originally posted by noquarter


    A Vista32 key is valid for Vista64 as well and Microsoft will send you the x64 DVD for around $10 if you can't get a hold of a copy to install off of yourself, which isn't hard to do.


    This gives you a few options - Use Vista32 with 3gb and switch to 64 if you add more ram later, use Vista64 on 3gb while you wait to get more ram, or order it with 6gb.

     

    That's useful - I can easily get hold of an disk for vista 64 from work. So if I start with 3GB then vista 32 looks to be the best option.

  • Dreadknot357Dreadknot357 Member Posts: 148
    Originally posted by alakram

    Originally posted by Antipathy


    Hi,
    I currently mostly play Warcraft. My PC is 3-4 years old, and whilst it has coped pretty well in the past, it's starting to show it's age with the latest expansion. For example, I get huge lag whenever I enter the city of Dalaran.
     
    So I'm considering buying a new PC. As far as I can tell, any modern gaming oriented PC should be able to cope with WoW without too many problems. But what about other MMOs? It would be nice to have a PC that would cope well with recently released games (e.g. Vanguard, AoC, WhO, Spellborn), and that also stands at least a good chance of coping with the next generation of games, that will be released over the coming year, such as Aion.
     
    Generally I'm more likely to play either pure PvE or mixed PvE/PvP games. I avoid FPS games, such as Doom and Quake, since they tend to give me motion sickness. So I'm also likely to avoid releases of FPS oriented MMOs, such as Huxley.
     
    I'm currently looking at a PC with specs such as this:
    * Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz CPU

    * Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Motherboard

    * 896MB nVidia GTX 260 PCI Express Graphics Card

    * 3GB (3 x 1GB) Kingston PC10600 1333Mhz DDR3 Ram

    * 750GB 7200rpm SATA II Hard Drive
     
    If I wanted to get the most for my MMO buck, what would be the most cost-efficient way of improving this. More RAM? Better CPU? Better graphics card?
     
    I'd also be likely to order the PC pre-built . I've built my own PC before, and in my opinion, unless you're a student and desparately short of cash, it's simply not worth the hassle of building PCs on a one-off basis.

     

    I never recomend buying the last technology. You will buy an overpriced processor. This is just my opinion of course.

    "I never recomend buying the last technology. You will buy an overpriced processor. This is just my opinion of course".

     

    Dreadknot not aproved.

    dont listen to this.....  usally  this is the right Opinion  but ...in this case th i7 920 is a force with great price value

     

    PS:  dont moonlight in threads with little or no Facts posting "Dont's"  when you havent done your Homework.  he is sepnding real MONEY    he dosnt need factless Advice that could make him wasted it. 

     

    "Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
    image
    image

  • Dreadknot357Dreadknot357 Member Posts: 148
    Originally posted by noquarter


     

    Originally posted by Antipathy

    I still don't fully understand what you guys are saying. My fault I know - I'm way out of date on the hardware side.

    Firstly, it's unclear to me if you're saying that RAID would affect the run time performance of MMOs or just the load time? Because if it's just the load time then I'm not to worried, since many games load reasonably quickly, and then are played for several hours. So disk speed seems to be considerably less important than for other applications (e.g. for a software development PC, good disk speed is vital). Of course, if you're building the ultimate gaming PC than that's another matter, but that's not what I'm after - I just want to play lag free. But the ultimate gaming PC would probably use solid state drives anyway...

    Also - why would memory brand make such a difference? I was under the impression that memory was a commodity.

     



    Sorry I got off track a bit.



    A Raptor/SSD or RAID0 will not effect in-game performance once you are loaded up. A Raptor/SSD will always shave a few seconds off the load screen but a RAID0 may or may NOT depending on the game (in some cases it slows it down because of RAID overhead).



    RAID0 is generally only useful when dealing with long, contiguous reads/writes - copying large files from another drive or dealing with large files such as video editing. It also excels at artificial benchmarks that don't emulate real world usage by the average user.



    By your statement you should only bother with the 750gb 7200rpm hard drive you have picked out.

     

    Memory speed simply put only makes a difference if you are a performance freak trying to squeeze every drop out of a PC. Regular gaming does not require expensive memory. You DO want to buy a reputable brand that won't give you faulty ram though. I would just get 3gb (6gb if you multitask any) of DDR3-1333 (or 1600 if you find a good price) from a brand such as Corsair, OCZ, GSkill, Mushkin, or, yes, Kingston.



    Kingston has a lifetime warranty on their ram - even if their value ram isn't very overclockable it will work fine for you plus if it ever fails their RMA procedure is very easy.



    Dreadknot is trying to steer you toward RAM known for overclockability in which case brand and model are important - but the price tag goes up with it.

    Yes i would Steer you that way.

     

    You have to make sure your Ram is tested on that board  only a few are.

    And you need to learn how to get your ram to spec

    the Corsair  would have been nice it had the XMS profile.

    Over clocking is a must now adays,  you can save yourself hundreds.

    Not to mention nothing comes out the box and works @ factory. (rare if it does...)

    Meaning

    you put that ram in your PC, it says 1600  9 9 9 24  timeings on the box.

    your MB  sets to auto,  and you could  be running your ram at 1066  9 9 9 32T.

    MOST PEOPLE DONT KNOW THIS!.  and will never know untill they understand what to look for. 

    So you could be paying for higher speed ram and getting less.

    Learning how to fix this problem,  is half way to learning how to Over clock....

    And what i love about Intel  is "EVGA"  they make the most cutting edge hardwear with great OC abillty.

    other companys are setup for More "Value"

    But you get what you pay for.  "NO ONE is going to give you something for less.  they are cutting corners somewhere  to make up the diffrence.  When you start shopping from company to comapny you will notice the Qualtiy of Service and product.   Staying with one Company  will make you Bias.

    case in point ...

    I built 4 Computers this week  and one of them

    Was a Evga 790i  gaming rig

    he went "Cheap" on the Manufacturing Company. with the Video card..

    He got a BFG GTX 285 (like most people  that Swear by  buying  PRICE / to prefomance parts...BFG being one of the cheaper comapny is some cases)

    I opend the Video card box...lol  i have the same GTX 285 from EVGA.....   and i was amazed at how bad it was packaged..

    WOW cardboard instead of the new Foam.  Half the cables   Little if no  manual  ....it was Sad.

    Even thou its a small thing.....You just dont pay for the product, you pay for a piece of mind...

    Go with a Solid Company  and you will get what you pay for..

    Or go cheap and cry later (and you will end up repalceing it faster...and what value did you get?)

    back to the point.

    IF kingston is all they got  well i guess.

     

    PS

    Raid:

    Pros:  Faster loading. fact ( have Raided raptors and they stomp  my other PC in loading games and programs)  if you do your homework  you can find a pair for a little more $ than a single.......try and find a Dollar a gig.

    Cons: Stabilty. And  Data loss.   ( i have gone through 3 in the last 4 years.  dont worry you will see the signs  before and get your data.

    "Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
    image
    image

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Dreadknot357

    PS
    Raid:
    Pros:  Faster loading. fact ( have Raided raptors and they stomp  my other PC in loading games and programs)  if you do your homework  you can find a pair for a little more $ than a single.......try and find a Dollar a gig.
    Cons: Stabilty. And  Data loss.   ( i have gone through 3 in the last 4 years.  dont worry you will see the signs  before and get your data.


    image

    Time it yourself. I'm copying some games off my raid to a single drive to test right now. Load times depend a bit on CPU power it's not a straight dump into memory off the hard drive. It's the same reason WinRAR benchmarks show insignificant difference on RAIDs.


    edit: Took 1.8 seconds longer to load Lord of the Rings Online off my 7200rpm RAID than off my 7200rpm single drive. I'll test Age of Conan and WoW later.

  • Dreadknot357Dreadknot357 Member Posts: 148
    Originally posted by noquarter


     

    Originally posted by Dreadknot357
     
    PS

    Raid:

    Pros:  Faster loading. fact ( have Raided raptors and they stomp  my other PC in loading games and programs)  if you do your homework  you can find a pair for a little more $ than a single.......try and find a Dollar a gig.

    Cons: Stabilty. And  Data loss.   ( i have gone through 3 in the last 4 years.  dont worry you will see the signs  before and get your data.

     

    Time it yourself. I'm copying some games off my raid to a single drive to test right now. Load times depend a bit on CPU power it's not a straight dump into memory off the hard drive. It's the same reason WinRAR benchmarks show insignificant difference on RAIDs.



    edit: Took 1.8 seconds longer to load Lord of the Rings Online off my 7200rpm RAID than off my 7200rpm single drive. I'll test Age of Conan and WoW later.



     

    first of all did you notice the Drive sizes  and notice that from   140 gig WD raid and down  (exception of the WD single...whats up with that)  the size of the drives seam to be a factor.

    And also  im realy getting tired of you....all you do is post reviews and benchmarks....up untill now is the only time that i have seen you try something out on your own.....?

    Try  getting some of this hardwear and try it out for a change....thread after thread you post shit about everything....and yea, you do your reserch.. But you are all talk,, no action.....No one is going to take your advice  when you sitting around on your dell  Telling heads about Computer Tech...Just stop.  you have refused to Post your specs and PC past.....and if you do it now... your just going to BS.....if you insist on following me around and tring your best to Debate me. by looking shit up on google  and testing me....

    Im going to blow up your spot  everytime you post.  So keep reading  and keep your wanabe Tech level to yourself.

    PS  there are so many reasons why your raid could have been slower...(crap  driver  myabe?)

    "Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
    image
    image

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    Pretty sure you posted "Faster loading. fact" Everything I've read and my own tests show it's not a fact at all. If you want to say "fact" you have to back it up. I posted relevant benchmarks, and yes the above benchmark is outdated but the concept and execution of RAID0 is unchanged, plus the other benchmark shows the same results with newer/larger drives.


    There are plenty of more technical RAID reviews that show where a RAID excels - database/web servers and dealing with large data streams. The more technical RAID reviews don't even consider how a RAID performs in games because it isn't relevant.


    Yes, I considered my RAID very likely suffers from a poor hardware/software implementation but between 2 benchmark results and my own results the average RAID is likely to fall in the same category. I used to think RAID0 helped but I honestly never noticed a speed up in load times long before I even read about its ineffectiveness and the benchmarks only reaffirmed my own suspicions. You claim all my knowledge is from reviews, yet you want me to take your 'review' to heart as well? At least reviews I read are backed by data and unbiased testing.

  • AntipathyAntipathy Member UncommonPosts: 1,362

    Guys - calm down. Take a deep breath.

    I've already made my decision about RAID - i.e. that load times aren't so important to me so I won't be buying it. Now if you still feel angry with eachother can you go and hold your pissing match somewhere else?

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587
    Originally posted by alakram




    * Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz CPU

     

    I never recomend buying the last technology. You will buy an overpriced processor. This is just my opinion of course.

     

    i can vouch for this.  My Quad core 6600 was perfectly good (and cheap) compared to the latest cores.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

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