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So I thought TCG wasn't gambling?
Gravez
Member Posts: 249
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/news_archive.vm?id=68276
STAR WARS GALAXIES™ TRADING CARD GAME APRIL LOOT TOURNAMENT! - 04/08/2009
GET SOME HOT LOOT IN THE APRIL
STAR WARS GALAXIES™ TRADING CARD GAME LOOT TOURNAMENT!
Join your friends online for the April Loot Tournament Weekend, April 11 and April 12, 2009, in the Star Wars Galaxies™ Trading Card Game!
For just ten (10) event passes, each participant will receive:
· Three (3) Star Wars Galaxies™ Trading Card Game: Galactic Hunters booster packs
· One (1) Droopy McCool (3P5) promotional card
· One (1) Guise of the Master (3SWGP2) loot card
· Plus, entry into the April Loot Tournament Weekend to compete for additional prizes!
Please note that participation is limited to U.S. residents only. Void in Arizona , Connecticut , Iowa , Maryland , Nevada , Tennessee and Vermont .
So it's not gambling but void in these states?
Comments
hm.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
It might be because its a contest? Like when I go to TigerDirect.com or even Newegg.com, they have these weekly/daily prizes and all of them have restrictions/void in some states.
Those states have specific laws that classify the TCG as a sweepstakes and therefore gambling.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
TGC is gambling, plain and simple. Any one that is denying it is trying to cover SOE for some reason.
Seriously, I'd love to see a large group of players "playing" the TGC.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I bet some non-U.S. residents get quite upset at this.
3:1 odds
As some of us who actually know something about the law have maintained from the beginning on these forums and elsewhere, the TCG is gambling and it is slowly being outlawed across North America. It was never going to happen quickly, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
F*ck you very much SOE and Smedley - Im very happy to have done my part in bringing your bullshit scam to the attention of state and provincial lawmakers
S
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
is it me or is your opinion legally wrong in 7 states?
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
is it me or is your opinion legally wrong in 7 states?
is it me or is his opinion legally ok in all but 7 states?
When did they outlaw gambling in Nevada?
Its no illegal if they follow Nevada Gaming laws. basically, they need to admit its gambling then they have to follow a specific odds of winning that the state inposes and pay taxes. TO get around that, the TCG is not available in that state.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
is it me or is your opinion legally wrong in 7 states?
is it me or is his opinion legally ok in all but 7 states?
oh really? was his opinion put through the legal system in all those states?
Its no illegal if they follow Nevada Gaming laws. basically, they need to admit its gambling then they have to follow a specific odds of winning that the state inposes and pay taxes. TO get around that, the TCG is not available in that state.
Well said.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
is it me or is your opinion legally wrong in 7 states?
HAHA awesome... Nuff said.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
is it me or is your opinion legally wrong in 7 states?
HAHA awesome... Nuff said.
This isn't a question of opinions. An opinion would be "I like the game because lightsabers are pretty" or "I don't like the game because SOE sucks ". This is incontravertible fact. The TCG is illegal in 7 states and more will follow.
/end of
S
I keep reading that the TCG is illegal in 7 states, but that's not how I read it. I read it to mean that this tournament isn't legal in 7 states. I checked their website for the TCG itself and there are no disclamers that you can't play the game in those states, or won't have access to purchasing the cards in those states, only that you can't participate in this tournament. Though I don't really know why someone would want to anyway, but that's another thread.
Yeah its the tournament they are talking about, however only winning the prizes is the issue. As someone who wanted to participate in a tournament (even though i am god aweful at it) after I found that the card game was actually kinda funand as someone who does not live in an area considered "legal" (read that to mean sony doesn't want to figure how to navigate red tape for every country on the planet) I found that you are indeed allowed to participate as long as if you win you dont claim the prizes. So yeah if you just want to compete to try to beat people then you can do so you just have to sign a bunch of paper saying you forfeit the prizes (which was a pain and which I only did once cause it was a pain ). Anyhow its not the TCG they are speaking of its the competitions to win prizes they are speaking of which happen twice a month or so in this game and legends of norath as well. Not that anyone will acknowledge these "details" on this board I think you will find that that is not the goal here the goal here is to sling poo at sony and accuracy does not count only quantity lol.
Yeah its the tournament they are talking about, however only winning the prizes is the issue. As someone who wanted to participate in a tournament (even though i am god aweful at it) after I found that the card game was actually kinda funand as someone who does not live in an area considered "legal" (read that to mean sony doesn't want to figure how to navigate red tape for every country on the planet) I found that you are indeed allowed to participate as long as if you win you dont claim the prizes. So yeah if you just want to compete to try to beat people then you can do so you just have to sign a bunch of paper saying you forfeit the prizes (which was a pain and which I only did once cause it was a pain ). Anyhow its not the TCG they are speaking of its the competitions to win prizes they are speaking of which happen twice a month or so in this game and legends of norath as well. Not that anyone will acknowledge these "details" on this board I think you will find that that is not the goal here the goal here is to sling poo at sony and accuracy does not count only quantity lol.
It's the "fee based" competitions they are refering to. As in you pay a fee to participate in order to win prizes violates their sweepstakes laws. No one is failing to mention anything.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
What is the fee for the competition? Is it the 'event passes" that were mentioned? I don't know anything about it, that's why I'm asking. I haven't subscribed to SWG for a couple years yet I have several packs of TCG as vet rewards (which is ironic given the fact that I haven't been a vet for a while). Do you have to purchase more packs to be able to enter a tournament and that is why its fee based? or is it those 10 "event passes" whatever the heck they are? I'm not trying to get people riled up, I'm just curious about what would make it illegal in those states other than what the previous poster said about the red tape inherent in most intra-continental competitions.
THe problem the states like Nevada have is that they regulate games of chance, not skill. The TCG appears to be about luck to gain the prizes, a game of skill would be chess or table top Warhammer. You buy a pack, and if you get the right card, you get a prize. If not, you keep buying to get a prize. Which is a problem since you are required to pay a fee to enter and its all chance. Maybe the odds of winning are to low for Nevada and the other states, so they wont alow it. Or that SOE wont play by Nevada gaming laws and pay the associated taxes. Most of this is speculation, hard facts a not available to us. Now, if somebody were to ask a state gaming official from Nevada why its not allowed, then were would have some facts.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
THe problem the states like Nevada have is that they regulate games of chance, not skill. The TCG appears to be about luck to gain the prizes, a game of skill would be chess or table top Warhammer. You buy a pack, and if you get the right card, you get a prize. If not, you keep buying to get a prize. Which is a problem since you are required to pay a fee to enter and its all chance. Maybe the odds of winning are to low for Nevada and the other states, so they wont alow it. Or that SOE wont play by Nevada gaming laws and pay the associated taxes. Most of this is speculation, hard facts a not available to us. Now, if somebody were to ask a state gaming official from Nevada why its not allowed, then were would have some facts.
yeah you buy the pack for the cards not the prize. Unless your a 3 year old kid with a box of cereal who begs your mom to buy the box for the prize inside.
TCG is like any card game you play cards two people play cards and one guy wins you deal the cards out of a deck and then play the card game that is all it is. If you want to get more powerful cards you buy booster packs however like many I only use the free decks. You dont need to buy any cards at all the enter the tournaments you can use what you get to play and you get 5 free packs per month. The above reply is "mixed up" to be honest and I think you need to go and see what the TCG actually is. Its a card game a simple game where you try to beat your oponents with the cards in your hand that's all it is. No you dont buy cards for a free prize you buy them for the cards. If you want every month or so you can take part in tournaments where sony has decided not to get invovled in trying to obey laws of other countries or certain states. The opening post in this thread to be honest was just flame bait cause he is stating the rules of their competitions which by the way are free in most cases. If you win the competitions (against other players) you get a prize. In order to participate in these competitions as someone not within the areas that are allowed you simply have to forfeit the prize to compete. (that is the "loot tournaments" the loot is the prize that's all it is and ever was no cards are purchased you play win a tournament and get the prize for winning = loot ) /sigh
People however are saying that the tcg is illegal when in fact they are speaking of tournaments (just like chess tournaments or dart tournaments or any other competition) and saying that this means that the card game is illegal. To be fair neither the card game nor the tournaments are illegal because they are obeying the law which is quite evident in one case where there are places where they dont have their tournaments so to be honest this entire thread is just moot.
THe problem the states like Nevada have is that they regulate games of chance, not skill. The TCG appears to be about luck to gain the prizes, a game of skill would be chess or table top Warhammer. You buy a pack, and if you get the right card, you get a prize. If not, you keep buying to get a prize. Which is a problem since you are required to pay a fee to enter and its all chance. Maybe the odds of winning are to low for Nevada and the other states, so they wont alow it. Or that SOE wont play by Nevada gaming laws and pay the associated taxes. Most of this is speculation, hard facts a not available to us. Now, if somebody were to ask a state gaming official from Nevada why its not allowed, then were would have some facts.
Here are the hard facts:
"we cannot offer fee-based tournaments with prizes to residents of the states of Arizona, Connecticut, Iowa, Maryland, Nevada, Tennessee and Vermont, so the Tournaments are void in these states. The Tournaments are also void in Puerto Rico, Guam, all other U.S. and all foreign territories and possessions, and wherever prohibited or restricted by law." (Virrago)
Generally the laws in these jurisdictions seem to ensure that people know up front that they are risking money on a chance outcome. They also focus on things like verifiable odds of winning. Sweepstakes, as many have pointed out, need to have a "no purchase necessary option" to be valid in many states. So, the tournaments don't pass as sweepstakes, and they don't seem to be offered in states or other areas that regulate games of chance for the benefit of participants.
All of this information suggests to me that this isn't the kind of game of chance I would be interested in playing. Don't want to play by established gambling or sweepstakes regulations? Why not? Reminds me of a crooked shell game where "the house" is set up to benefit more than any of the participants. No thanks.
THe problem the states like Nevada have is that they regulate games of chance, not skill. The TCG appears to be about luck to gain the prizes, a game of skill would be chess or table top Warhammer. You buy a pack, and if you get the right card, you get a prize. If not, you keep buying to get a prize. Which is a problem since you are required to pay a fee to enter and its all chance. Maybe the odds of winning are to low for Nevada and the other states, so they wont alow it. Or that SOE wont play by Nevada gaming laws and pay the associated taxes. Most of this is speculation, hard facts a not available to us. Now, if somebody were to ask a state gaming official from Nevada why its not allowed, then were would have some facts.
yeah you buy the pack for the cards not the prize. Unless your a 3 year old kid with a box of cereal who begs your mom to buy the box for the prize inside.
TCG is like any card game you play cards two people play cards and one guy wins you deal the cards out of a deck and then play the card game that is all it is. If you want to get more powerful cards you buy booster packs however like many I only use the free decks. You dont need to buy any cards at all the enter the tournaments you can use what you get to play and you get 5 free packs per month. The above reply is "mixed up" to be honest and I think you need to go and see what the TCG actually is. Its a card game a simple game where you try to beat your oponents with the cards in your hand that's all it is. No you dont buy cards for a free prize you buy them for the cards. If you want every month or so you can take part in tournaments where sony has decided not to get invovled in trying to obey laws of other countries or certain states. The opening post in this thread to be honest was just flame bait cause he is stating the rules of their competitions which by the way are free in most cases. If you win the competitions (against other players) you get a prize. In order to participate in these competitions as someone not within the areas that are allowed you simply have to forfeit the prize to compete. (that is the "loot tournaments" the loot is the prize that's all it is and ever was no cards are purchased you play win a tournament and get the prize for winning = loot ) /sigh
People however are saying that the tcg is illegal when in fact they are speaking of tournaments (just like chess tournaments or dart tournaments or any other competition) and saying that this means that the card game is illegal. To be fair neither the card game nor the tournaments are illegal because they are obeying the law which is quite evident in one case where there are places where they dont have their tournaments so to be honest this entire thread is just moot.
Actually comparing the TCG tournament to a chess tournament would be legally incorrect. One is a game of skill, the other is a game of chance. Regulations take great pains to distinguish between the two. That's why you can have a chess tournament in Arizona, but not a TCG tournament, where you pay any kind of fee to enter, hoping to win a prize by chance.
The tournament issue and the TCG itself may be different issues, but there appears to be an overlapping theme: money paid in the hope of winning something by chance. This appears to be the case in the tournaments, and in the game itself.
Again, jurisdictions like Nevada are certainly not against games of chance that cost people money. (Neither am I for that matter.) However, the state legislators are so experienced with issues like this that they have well defined rules that ensure a fair game that is clearly advertised as gambling. This way participants are not drawn into a potentially compulsive activity outside of their awareness, and the house cannot manipulate the odds, or exploit any blind spots that players may have.
What I, and obviously many others, believe is so objectionable about SOE's practices here is that people can apparently become involved in a potentially compulsive activity without being duly informed in advance. Odds can also be manipulated, since they are not known or verified by a third party. Furthermore, the winnings--in the case of the TCG--do not become the property of the winner, and their value can be diminished at any point by the service provider. This is unlike any game of chance in a jurisdiction like Nevada that is properly regulated.
Suggesting that the thread is moot seems to suggest that Nevada doesn't know how to regulate games of chance. I beg to differ. Oh you can play games of chance in other jurisdictions without protective regulation; you're just more likely to get screwed. If I choose to gamble, I know where to get a fair game, and where not to. It pays to be informed; and it costs, probably literally, not to be.
Or, just maybe, anyone that doesn't agree that it is gambling is simply exercising their right to have their own opinion.
Why is it that any dissent from the so-called "vets" equates to "trying to cover for SOE" around here? The groupthink around here hasn't gotten any better since most of the hardcores ran off to their own little lolforum to whine about SOE.
no, no, this is not a matter of opinion. its a question of interpretation.
gambling:
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.
how does this not comform with the tcg practice in regards to loot?
So, can you have a TCG tournament in places like Nevada? Of course you can. So what kind of tournament would actually be legal? Read and see, if you like:
"Upper Deck Announces
Upper Deck Day
Special Organized Play Event with Tournaments for
Every Upper Deck Brand
Gold Sarcophagus Up for Grabs!
Free Huntik Trading Card Game Sneak Preview!
Free World of Warcraft Trading Card Game Beginners Tournaments
North Las Vegas, NV (January 14, 2009) — Upper Deck announced today a special Organized Play event that will offer a tournament for every gamer! From anime to MMOs, no matter what you’re into, Upper Deck Day has the tournament for you! Upper Deck Day will take place at locations throughout North America on February 7 – 8, 2009 and will feature great events for the Yu-Gi-Oh! TRADING CARD GAME, the Huntik: Secrets & Seekers Trading Card Game and the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game. Stay tuned to UDE.com to find a location near you!
Yu-Gi-Oh! TRADING CARD GAME
The Yu-Gi-Oh! TRADING CARD GAME “Duelist Challenge” will feature high caliber dueling and the most prizes ever offered at a Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG event! The top three finishers at each location will receive a highly valuable prize card, and the winner will take home a Gold Sarcophagus! Plus, all top finishers will walk away with an entire box of product! Additional prizes include rare Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG play mats, t-shirts and other promos. Duelists also have a chance to receive promo cards and other great prizes throughout the weekend.
Prizes
1st Place: Gold Sarcophagus, 2 boxes of recent product
2nd Place: Shrink, 2 boxes of recent product
3rd Place: Des Volstgalph, 2 boxes of recent product
4th Place: Nationals 2007 Cyber Dragon playmat, 2 boxes of recent product
5-8 place: 2 boxes of recent product
9-16 place: 1 box of recent product
Huntik: Secrets & Seekers Trading Card Game
Upper Deck Day will also host the first ever Huntik: Secrets & Seekers TCG Sneak Preview. This event is free and open to anyone interested in getting a head start on this great new game! The Huntik: Secrets & Seekers TCG is based on the new animated series that recently debuted on the CW4Kids Network to high acclaim. The Trading Card Game launches on February 17th, but players can get a sneak peek at this engaging game of missions and strategy at Upper Deck Day. Demos will be offered on site, and players can also visit Huntik.com for an online tutorial. During Upper Deck Day, every player will walk away with their own Starter Deck, unleashing their Titans into the world! Visit Huntik.com for more details on this new action-packed brand!
World of Warcraft Trading Card Game
No gaming event would be complete without the World of Warcraft. In addition to all the animated excitement, Upper Deck Day will also feature both the World of Warcraft Trading Card Game and the World of Warcraft Miniatures Game. All gamers are invited to enter the free TCG beginners event and learn first hand what all the buzz is about. The World of Warcraft TCG brings the action of the online game to the table top, with all the same strategy and action in the cards! Players can earn booster packs and start building their own World of Warcraft TCG collection with their free Starter Decks. Door prizes will also be given out all weekend. Visit WoWTCG.com to learn more!
World of Warcraft Miniatures Game
Amongst all the excitement, make sure to schedule time for a World of Warcraft Miniatures Game demo. Featuring high-quality, incredibly detailed figures, the World of Warcraft Miniatures are perfect for every gamer. The game offers unique game play that closely mirrors the action and strategy of the online game, plus the figures themselves feature amazingly detailed interpretations of some fan-favorite World of Warcraft races and classes. Check out WoWMinis.com to see for yourself!
Don’t miss out on this amazing opportunity for gaming, prizes and more with Upper Deck Day. Check back soon to find a location near you! " (entertainment.upperdeck.com; italics and font colour mine for highlights)
So can you play in a TCG tournament in places like Nevada? Of course you can. All of these companies are willing to play by the rules and offer people a rewarding entertainment experience with a chance to win promotional prizes. Notice any differences between these tournaments and SOE's?