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Newsweek article: "The End of Christian America"

GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182

It's a pretty interesting article. It's pretty long though, so if you're looking for a short read at work, you better look elsewhere.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192583/page/1

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Comments

  • PyrichPyrich Member Posts: 1,040

    As the article quotes

     

    "No country can be truly 'Christian',  Only people can. God is above all nations, and, in fact, Isaiah says that 'All nations are to him a drop in the bucket and less than nothing."

     

    Can't really "end" somthing that never was.  Unless your refering to the end of the pandering and using religon as a tool to further their power,  then no,  it's far from over.  Wish it was though.

    But thats nothing new eigther,  way before "bible thumping republicans" it was the Democrates that used it and brought about Prohibition.

     

    There's a reason why we seperate Church and State (and the economy and military and other thigs for that matter).  Because if you dont you lose them both.   Well, lose them in the form we want them,  they are still there just in a corrupted and dangerous form.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    It's called secularisation, to make religion and government two seperate spheres. It is one of the fundaments of Enlightenment and reason to make belief a private matter and the state a neutral system. Governments should not support one religion over another.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • PyrichPyrich Member Posts: 1,040
    Originally posted by Elikal


    It's called secularisation, to make religion and government two seperate spheres. It is one of the fundaments of Enlightenment and reason to make belief a private matter and the state a neutral system. Governments should not support one religion over another.



     

    They also shouldn't try to replace religion with its own docterians also though.  It's a slippery slope mantaining a rule over the masses and ones personal beliefs.

     

    Keep the Church out of the State just as you keep the State out of the Church (or whatever you wish to call your affilitions of common interest).

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150

    The sooner deity and supernatural based religions die, the sooner the human race can advance.  I can't wait.

  • John.A.ZoidJohn.A.Zoid Member Posts: 1,531

    It's funny cause in the media in America you hear people thanking God and you wont get elected unless you believe or pretend to believe in God. In the UK however if you mention God people think you're crazy and to get elected you have to be an athiest or downplay your belief in God. I've been to America many times and you do meet alot of people who believe in God but they don't all go to Church, they just believe. Here in the UK I don't know anyone who believes in God, well in England... I can't speak for Northern Ireland and that.

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150
    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    It's funny cause in the media in America you hear people thanking God and you wont get elected unless you believe or pretend to believe in God. In the UK however if you mention God people think you're crazy and to get elected you have to be an athiest or downplay your belief in God. I've been to America many times and you do meet alot of people who believe in God but they don't all go to Church, they just believe. Here in the UK I don't know anyone who believes in God, well in England... I can't speak for Northern Ireland and that.



     

    Which is why your society is surpassing and will surpass America.

  • SargothSargoth Member Posts: 558

    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 

    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 

    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 

    When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150
    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

  • TechleoTechleo Member Posts: 1,984

      Slaveries gone? Since when. Widespread no. Gone? Not even close. At this moment we have well thousands of unpaid workers in this country who labor to either set free there families in other countries or got her and were basically captured as worked. Mite want to check out whats happening in San Fransisco, San Diego and even places like Seattle. All I can say is, your right, were better off without slavery. We have to get rid of it still. As for us being better off without religion? Naive.

  • SargothSargoth Member Posts: 558
    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.

    When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150
    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Techleo


      Slaveries gone? Since when. Widespread no. Gone? Not even close. At this moment we have well thousands of unpaid workers in this country who labor to either set free there families in other countries or got her and were basically captured as worked. Mite want to check out whats happening in San Fransisco, San Diego and even places like Seattle. All I can say is, your right, were better off without slavery. We have to get rid of it still. As for us being better off without religion? Naive.

    Your humorous post made me laugh. These "slaves" are here illegally and should be kicked back to their home countries. It is not forced labor. They chose to put themselves into the position. Their here for charity and are demanding more when they have no rights.

  • SargothSargoth Member Posts: 558
    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

     

    First off, here's a mind bender for you.  Slavery evidently has been around for a long time.  As long as any religion.  Are you using that quote as an effort to say that religion is the creation of slavery?  For if anything, at least in the Bible version of events, it was taught how to treat slaves properly and not to beat them for thrills. 

    Slavery in the biblical times is much different from the colonial times that most people associate slavery with.  Colonial slaves were treated by people with hate and anger.  Whereas slavery in the biblical times was more a form of indentured service in most applications.  Slave owners treated their indentured slaves well with the intent that after the year of jubilee they would stay on and work the fields. 

    It is also possible that Jesus did not have time to promote a society free of slaves since his time on this Earth was limited.  He instead decided to teach the communication of man to God and to pomoted love and tolerance.  Perhaps relying on man to grow and eventually decide that slavery is not something to be a part of anymore. 

    You should not tie religion with slavery as religion did not create slavery.  Slavery was created by man.  Religion if anything, tried to make the experiance better.  For all accounts, it may not have been possible to remove slavery from society at the risk of removing the teachings of the Bible and Jesus from society too. 

    When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there



     

     

    Explain the passage then. 

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there



     

     

    Explain the passage then. 



     

    As I said, I already did it in another thread...and I had already done it at least half a dozen times before...If you REALLY want your answer (which of course you don't, you just want it as a talking point against Christianity) then you can go find the thread and read the answer for yourself...I told you which thread it is in, this forum has a search function - go look it up yourself.  I'm not going to type it again though because I know that I would just be wasting my time.  People like you don't want answers - you want rhetoric that can be used as ammo.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • SabiancymSabiancym Member UncommonPosts: 3,150
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there



     

     

    Explain the passage then. 



     

    As I said, I already did it in another thread...and I had already done it at least half a dozen times before...If you REALLY want your answer (which of course you don't, you just want it as a talking point against Christianity) then you can go find the thread and read the answer for yourself...I told you which thread it is in, this forum has a search function - go look it up yourself.  I'm not going to type it again though because I know that I would just be wasting my time.  People like you don't want answers - you want rhetoric that can be used as ammo.



     

    As much as you want to believe it, I don't follow you around this forum reading your posts.  If you've already "explained" it then copy and paste what you said.  I highly doubt you did anything but talk in a circle like most christians do when confronted.

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Techleo


      Slaveries gone? Since when. Widespread no. Gone? Not even close. At this moment we have well thousands of unpaid workers in this country who labor to either set free there families in other countries or got her and were basically captured as worked. Mite want to check out whats happening in San Fransisco, San Diego and even places like Seattle. All I can say is, your right, were better off without slavery. We have to get rid of it still. As for us being better off without religion? Naive.

    Your humorous post made me laugh. These "slaves" are here illegally and should be kicked back to their home countries. It is not forced labor. They chose to put themselves into the position. Their here for charity and are demanding more when they have no rights.



     

    I think the original post was about game developers, like those working for Cheyenne Mountain on the Stargate game.....

     

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there



     

     

    Explain the passage then. 



     

    As I said, I already did it in another thread...and I had already done it at least half a dozen times before...If you REALLY want your answer (which of course you don't, you just want it as a talking point against Christianity) then you can go find the thread and read the answer for yourself...I told you which thread it is in, this forum has a search function - go look it up yourself.  I'm not going to type it again though because I know that I would just be wasting my time.  People like you don't want answers - you want rhetoric that can be used as ammo.



     

    As much as you want to believe it, I don't follow you around this forum reading your posts.  If you've already "explained" it then copy and paste what you said.  I highly doubt you did anything but talk in a circle like most christians do when confronted.



     

    says the most prolific spewer of rhetoric on these forums

     

    If you want to go out and find the answer yourself like a big boy, then you are welcome to do that...I've already given you the pathway through which you can do that...I believe i even said in that very thread that this was something that I was tired of posting about because I have done it so many times in the past, only to have people like you ignore me in favor of their propaganda machine.

    Don't generalize me as "most Christians" when you yourself are absolutely 100% guilty of being the typical "most Obama supporter" and you prove yourself as such time and time again even in this very thread.  If you would have actually read the responses to the things that you have posted about Christianity in the past then you would know that I never debate in circles and always make an effort to be forthcoming and even admit when I don't know the answer to something. 

    Even if I didn't talk in circles though it wouldn't matter, because you have already proven that you don't even read the things that people write in response to your propaganda...so why bother?  Even if I posted it here and you read it, you would, in all likelyhood ignore anything valid that I had to say and nit pick on something that suits your case. Why is that something that would happen in all likelyhood?  Because you have already proven that this is how you conduct yourself.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • Nikkons017Nikkons017 Member UncommonPosts: 104

    What is really funny about most people is that they think america was founded on christian beliefs. No, the founding father's where Godly people but they were not religious. Spirituality is all fine and good but when you add in religion you get the singular cause of mass execution and slaughter than any other topic combined. As Benjamin Franklin said "Light houses are more useful than churches."

  • TechleoTechleo Member Posts: 1,984

       You are greatly mistaken Dekron. In many cases the people who come here under forced servitude have NO CHOICE. I've actually met people who escaped the criminal elements which brang them here. In many cases they cant go home. If they do they will die. In some cases they came here to work for the criminal factions which hold there families accountable for forced debts. If they dont go they see there families die. It may be far more common then you realize. 

      Albeit I agree many people come here to work for paltry wages because it gives them the chance to escape poor conditions in there homelands. Those I agree need to be sent home and I understand the outrage most people feel about these labourers. Then again many unskilled or skilled workers still pay Social Security when they work here. Which ironically they cant draw when there older. How ironic is that lol. In the end though the resources they drain out of the economy via forced medical assistance, criminal issues, and education policies drains more then they give.

      Slavery is real. It exists. Its just less obvious then the immigrant issues.

  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 

    There are no founding documents for this country that mention Christianity specifically.  And this government was not founded on unique Christian beliefs at all.

    Why do you people insist on saying stuff like this and trying to mislead people?  Rewriting history is not a very nice thing to do.

    A lot of our founding fathers were Deists or for some (like Paine who did a lot to spark the Revolution) out and out did not believe in God at all.  If you look around you can find plenty of primary source documents pertaining to Jefferson where he openly and proudly questioned religions.  And this is true for other intellectuals who played pivotal roles in the founding of this country as well.

    Yes, there is mention of "God" in some of our founding papers, but never Christianity.  And I'm not sure if you are familiar with what Deism is, but if not then suffice it to say that you would find yourself at great odds with a believer of Deism if you are a Christian.  I would mostly consider myself a Deist, and I find the belief in a magical man a little peculiar and impossible to fit into my reasoning mind.

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  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by Nikkons017


    What is really funny about most people is that they think america was founded on christian beliefs. No, the founding father's where Godly people but they were not religious. Spirituality is all fine and good but when you add in religion you get the singular cause of mass execution and slaughter than any other topic combined. As Benjamin Franklin said "Light houses are more useful than churches."

    Thank You!

    Sorry, I had not read your post before I made mine.  But, it seems we concur. 

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  • keltic1701keltic1701 Member Posts: 1,162
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth

    Originally posted by Sabiancym

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 



     

    The country was also founded on slavery.  We're doing fine without that.

     

    Are you trying to put slavery and religion in the same class?  I know your not stupid enough to do something like that are you? 

     

    Get your facts straight.  A majority of the founders disliked slavery.  For example, Thomas Paine was a founding member of one of the first anti-slavery societies in the country, founded in 1775 in Philadelphia.



     

     

    Slavery and religion are right next to each other on my board of evil.

     

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)



     

     

    You are seriously going to try and pull that after you already tried the Bible slavery argument in another thread and I concisely showed you that it's without merit and that the Bible in fact does NOT promote slavery?   This is why people start to ignore zealots like you...you ask questions, you pose these things to those who disagree with you, and then when you get an answer you just ignore and keep right on using it as a talking point, ignoring how often and how well you've been refuted.

    You want your answer on Biblical slavery - go look up the thread where somebody posted that "Ten questions every Christian must answer" video...the answer is in there



     

     

    Explain the passage then. 



     

    As I said, I already did it in another thread...and I had already done it at least half a dozen times before...If you REALLY want your answer (which of course you don't, you just want it as a talking point against Christianity) then you can go find the thread and read the answer for yourself...I told you which thread it is in, this forum has a search function - go look it up yourself.  I'm not going to type it again though because I know that I would just be wasting my time.  People like you don't want answers - you want rhetoric that can be used as ammo.

    Explain it to the rest of us who didn't get to read it.

  • SargothSargoth Member Posts: 558
    Originally posted by gnomexxx

    Originally posted by Sargoth


    Hello people, when was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?  This country was founded on Christian beliefs.  This government was founded on Christian beliefs. 
    There is seperation of church and state to keep the church from running the government not as a method to remove religion from our lives.  There is seperation of church and state to allow religions to practice as they see fit and to allow differing views on religious practices.  At no point were we supposed to move away from religion or to outright abandon it.  Religion is the reason for our moral values and our code of laws in the United States. 
    Religion is a part of this country and when we remove religion, we destroy our country. 

    There are no founding documents for this country that mention Christianity specifically.  And this government was not founded on unique Christian beliefs at all.

    Why do you people insist on saying stuff like this and trying to mislead people?  Rewriting history is not a very nice thing to do.

    A lot of our founding fathers were Deists or for some (like Paine who did a lot to spark the Revolution) out and out did not believe in God at all.  If you look around you can find plenty of primary source documents pertaining to Jefferson where he openly and proudly questioned religions.  And this is true for other intellectuals who played pivotal roles in the founding of this country as well.

    Yes, there is mention of "God" in some of our founding papers, but never Christianity.  And I'm not sure if you are familiar with what Deism is, but if not then suffice it to say that you would find yourself at great odds with a believer of Deism if you are a Christian.  I would mostly consider myself a Deist, and I find the belief in a magical man a little peculiar and impossible to fit into my reasoning mind.

    While some may have been Deist, a majority of the founding fathers had a religion of some sort. You arguement is only half right.  Some were diests while some simply disliked preists and the Roman Catholic church of the time.  But you are narrowing down the number of founders to suit your deist argument more.  

    www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

    I will admit that I am learning more about this each time I post, it still does not stop the fact that there were religious people that founded this country.  They used their religious morals and values to form the government that we have today.  As we continue to lose our religion and morals/values based upon that religion, we change the makeup of our country and our people.  It's easy to see the destruction of the family unit, the lack of morals and values in every facet of our life.  Tv, radio, and movies have become inundated with sex, violence and language that is contrary to the beliefs of our founding fathers.  It is contrary to America.  But people, even people like you fight out against people like me.  They want the destruction of the religious part of society.  I say you simply because you fixated on picking apart my argument instead of correcting and adding more.  If I'm wrong let me know.  Either way, take Sabiancym, a person that is activly against religion in any form.  And I have to ask why?  Why are people so activly trying to destroy religion and religious people?  This is the downfall, the reason for the End of Christian America.  It's not that people have lost faith, its that people get attacked for their faith. 

    I would simply ask, without religion, why should I care about the laws?  Why should I care about life?  If it all just ends when I'm dead, why not punch shoot and kill anyone that gets in my way or pisses me off?  Why not rob the store down the road?  Without religion there is nothing to stop me.  Law of the land?  Ha! A man will tell me what to do and what not to do?  Ha!  And yet everyday people want to destroy and remove religion from every corner of day to day life.  And for what?  I say to justify their simple beliefs that there is just no 'reasonable, scientific, plausible' way that there could be a god so they absolutly must be right and force that view upon everyone else because if there is no other side there is no argument. 

     

    When a piscating wizard floods every thread I can understand why people leave.

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