The OP is wrong in so many ways that the vote is useless. EQ2 was NOT one of the first graphical MMORPGs - might have been number 20 (guesstimate). Everyone looked at EQ1 and Blizzard hired some EQ1 people. But saying WoW copied EQ2 is uhmm - not smart.
I have recently engaged in comparing both Wow(Blizzard) and Eq2 since i saw the thread "Wow copying eq2 yet again" i have bought eq2 and a hell load of wow game cards for this (of which i finished in the past year XD) i found world of warcraft lacking unique attributes and i seriously found out that impossible Everquest2 would be the copier it was one of the first ever graphical MMORPG released in 1999 y dont you reply with your opinion and new info will be updated visit daily for more'o'dis
All games copy some other game in one fashion or another. EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
If you want to be frank, everyone copied off of Ultima Online since UO basically introduced and popularized MMO gaming to society and the world back in 1997.
Technically, MMOs copied everything from MUDs which were created in the 80s. And MUDs derived everything from the pen and paper Dungeons & Dragons.
People equate WoW or EQ2 and being copied by each other because that is all they know. MMOs have been around for over a decade now. Though the style and game play has changed significantly.
I have recently engaged in comparing both Wow(Blizzard) and Eq2 since i saw the thread "Wow copying eq2 yet again" i have bought eq2 and a hell load of wow game cards for this (of which i finished in the past year XD) i found world of warcraft lacking unique attributes and i seriously found out that impossible Everquest2 would be the copier it was one of the first ever graphical MMORPG released in 1999 y dont you reply with your opinion and new info will be updated visit daily for more'o'dis
All games copy some other game in one fashion or another. EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR.
EQ actually copied very little from UO, EQ1 is entirely D&D. The monsters, attributes, classes etc all of it was taken purely from D&D. UO and AC at least tried a different approach, one that has since been given up by most MMO companies, with the classless skill based system. AC even had an original world without using the standard spider, wolf, bear, etc monsters. Although to be fair the mouse man people in UO were always my favorites.
And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.D
EverQuest II and World of Warcraft launched within 4 days of each other. So unless Blizzard created, printed, published World of Warcraft in just 4 days the statement that they copied anything from EverQuest II is stupid.
Fact is everyone borrows from each other, just like most cars have 4 wheels and a motor.
If you want to talk about copy - let's ask the pen & paper RPG'ers what they think of MMORPGs....
I played D&D in the late 70's through the 80's to the 90's. The main difference between MMo's and paper and pen games, imho, is that after the game you don't have to rearrange your furniture, clean up all the empty soda bottles and coffee cups(or beer cans and bongs) and the fat boy who always played a wizard didn't scarf the last piece of pizza.
There is also not a lot of yelling and screaming when some one's best character is killed by orcs because the rest of the group decided not to help after he led them into yet 1 more trap(happens in MMO's but unless you have Teamspeak or Ventrilo you don't hear the anguished cries).
The last difference is that it is a heck of a lot easier to log into a game(usually) then it is rounding up the usual cast of players to play a game.
Why don't we all stop caring about who did what first and just play the games we like to play? You're not corporate lawyers, you have nothing to gain by arguing this point besides e-peen inches.
I think people forget that Blizzard released Diablo long before EQ was out and even though it wasn't an MMO per se', it still shares a lot of the same characteristics (quests, levels, bosses, classes, gear upgrades, etc). I realize Diablo wasn't original either, but the point is, you could just as easily say EQ copied from Diablo as WoW copied from EQ.
The long and short answer of this is really a lot simpler than that:
Game developers, like any other creator of creative content, tend to go after trends of what seems to be selling and consequently will tend to copy the hell out of eachother.
How many features in World of Warcraft can't be found in EverQuest? Extremely few. Unique class mechanics such as rogue combos were the main feature added to the pre-existing formula. A highly compatible client delivering a streamlined game experience was a lot of it.
On the other hand, how much of EevrQuest can't be found in Meridan 59? Again, quite few: class niches, pretty much.
How much of Meridan 59 can't be found in The Realm? It went 3D, but the graphical RPG mechanic isn't all that different.
How much of The Realm can't be found in text-based MUDs before it? Text-based rooms were converted into 2D space, but there's not much else new here.
In this way, it's a silly thing to say that simply following the progression of creative content makes you a fraud. Everyone's standing on the shoulders of giants, that's just the way it is.
Although, in Blizzard's case, they do have a long history of taking other people's ideas and improving them. For example, the original Warcraft was so heavily based on Westwood's Dune 2 to the point where Westwood attempted to sue them over it. Diablo pulls a lot from the roguelike genre. Even Blackthorne could be seen as a Prince of Persia refinement.
Very little of what Blizzard does is truly original. Instead, they take pre-existing games, and refine the snot out of them. Are they wrong to do so? Not necessarily. It turns out gamers really well refined pre-existing games. That's an approach that has Blizzard known as "the company that can do no wrong," and garnered them a fanbase that catapulted WoW into the millions.
In EverQuest 2 versus WoW, there were some things that EQ2 introduced that showed up in WoW as soon as they caught word of it, such as the Griffin Towers for a transport system... although, strictly speaking, this isn't all that different from what Dark Age of Camelot did with their mounts.
I think people forget that Blizzard released Diablo long before EQ was out and even though it wasn't an MMO per se', it still shares a lot of the same characteristics (quests, levels, bosses, classes, gear upgrades, etc). I realize Diablo wasn't original either, but the point is, you could just as easily say EQ copied from Diablo as WoW copied from EQ.
You really couldn't, simply because EQ was well into development when Diablo was released. While they may share some similar elements, it's more an effect of them pulling inspiration from similar sources than from each other.
Bad troll is winning BIG TIME. Go troll Go, are you full from all the feeding yet?
If he was trying to troll, he did us a favor by accident.
The thing is, it's often a question amongst those who notice EQ2's release date immediately preceded WOW and that WoW picks up quite a few EQ2-unique features, did WoW copy EQ2?
My answer, sure, everybody copies everybody. Welcome to game development.
Umm i think Wold of Warcraft copped Everquest but i havent played Everquest yet so i woudent know but all i know is that World of Warcraft is pretty good.
WoW is known to copy... They stole a lot of their ideas from Warhammer. This was before it was a mmo.. But thats why WoW and Warhammer seem very similar. At least EQ2 is pretty neat.. No where as good as the first but hey, its still really fun.
No one copied anyone, What we see as copying is what our game genre has become. WoW and EQ2 Are the basic MMO outline that we see shaped in almost every game we play because they were very succesful. Developers fail to invent new concepts to change the genre and the simplistic gameplay we see repeated in almost every MMORPG today. So essentially every game is a copy, a mix of several. You know that Aion has merged 10 games into one to create a polish, as did warhammer and others.
If you want to be "realistic", in the sense that you are talking. World of Warcraft copied aspects from Everquest I. Everquest I copied aspects from Neverwinter Nights, who copied aspects from The Realm online, who copied aspects from previous non-mmorpg games.
It took a great deal of work to get where we are today and in no means is anyone copying anyone. They each took aspects from each other and evolved.
EQ/EQII/WoW/SWG/AoC/WAR/EVE/RYZOM/AO/DAoC/Lineage/LineageII/VG/GW/LOTRO/COH/COV I've played them all, I've reviewed them all.
In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them – usually, to obtain property or services unjustly. [5] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception," or something similar.
Fraud for profit
Fraud for profit involves industry professionals. There are generally multiple loan transactions with several financial institutions involved. These frauds include numerous gross misrepresentations including: income is overstated, assets are overstated, collateral is overstated, the length of employment is overstated or fictitious employment is reported, and employment is backstopped by conspirators. The borrower's debts are not fully disclosed, nor is the borrower's credit history, which is often altered. Often, the borrower assumes the identity of another person (straw buyer). The borrower states he intends to use the property for occupancy when he/she intends to use the property for rental income, or is purchasing the property for another party (nominee). Appraisals almost always list the property as owner-occupied. Down payments do not exist or are borrowed and disguised with a fraudulent gift letter. The property value is inflated (faulty appraisal) to increase the sales value to make up for no down payment and to generate cash proceeds in fraud for profit.
Marriage fraud
Marriage fraud can take several forms and is the act of entering a marriage for personal gain rather than a genuine desire to enter into a sincere marital relationship. Marriage Fraud is usually associated with obtaining immigration benefits. In the United States, marriage fraud for immigration purposes is punishable under INA §204(c)(1) and the Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments of 1986. Possible criminal penalties include $250,000 and 5 years in prison as well as deportation and a permanent bar against receiving future immigration status. Marriage Fraud can be either unilateral or bilateral Unity and Immigration Policy in the United States. In a unilateral marriage fraud, only one party is aware of the fraud and the fraud is against both the immigration service as well as the other party. The innocent party may file a lawsuit and/or annulment of the marriage. In a bilateral fraud, both parties are aware of it and both parties are subject to criminal penalties.
Academic fraud
In academia and science, fraud can refer to academic fraud – the falsifying of research findings which is a form of scientific misconduct – and in common use intellectual fraud signifies falsification of a position taken or implied by an author or speaker, within a book, controversy or debate, or an idea deceptively presented to hide known logical weaknesses. Journalistic fraud implies a similar notion, the falsification of journalistic findings.
Fraud as tort
Fraud, in addition to being a criminal act, is also a type of civil law violation known as a tort. A tort is a civil wrong for which the law provides a remedy. A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment. A "false representation" can take many forms, such as:
* A false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made;
* A statement of fact with no reasonable basis to make that statement;
* A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised;
* A statement of opinion based on a false statement of fact;
* A statement of opinion that the maker knows to be false; or
* An expression of opinion that is false, made by one claiming or implying to have special knowledge of the subject matter of the opinion. "Special knowledge" in this case means knowledge or information superior to that possessed by the other party, and to which the other party did not have equal access.
* An intentional omission or concealment of some material fact done with the design of deceiving another party, and done with the intent that the other party rely on the deception.
And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.
Copying features from another game isn't really being a "fraud" the op is surely misuing the word or just didn't know which word to put there. Though fraud makes people come here instead of another "copy paste" thread.
Besides, if taking good features from another company is bad, just look at all other merchandise,food,cars and whatnots. It's everywhere, don't think it's just around a game. And yes, im overdoing it
By FOUR freak'n days EQ2 launch first. FOUR days. And for the record, EQ2 was such crap, it never recovered and now WoW has nearly 12 million ACTIVE subscribers while while SOE doesn't have ONE million active subscribers with all of their MMORPGs combined. So please, stop trying to crap on WoW.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
By FOUR freak'n days EQ2 launch first. FOUR days. And for the record, EQ2 was such crap, it never recovered and now WoW has nearly 12 million ACTIVE subscribers while while SOE doesn't have ONE million active subscribers with all of their MMORPGs combined. So please, stop trying to crap on WoW.
Four days may be enough for some genius programmers to add all sort of cool stuff they saw on another game...It's possible.
Ohh look! A pig with wings! (Follows blindly after it)
Arden0010World of Warcraft CorrespondentMemberPosts: 18
The copying of interface elements and some parts of the game structure such as how rage works for warriors seem to be very small things. If you look at the difference in player base between the two.. surely Warcraft must have some large elements that EQ2 does not.
If they were exactly the same they would have equal player bases, right? Saying that who knows maybe Blizzard just got lucky but in my experience of the two games although many elements may look the same actually playing the games are two totally seperate experiences
**EDIT**
Copying is one of the natural process of life that makes things get upgraded, people take the idea elements make a slight change, tweak it a little and make it their own. This happens over and over again and thats something we have to accept, earlier things are a basis for later things.
e.g. An V6 engine gets developed and someones comes along thinking hmm.... I wonder if i can add more valves to that
There is a reason people from your past did not make it to your future.
Comments
Simply put yes it is....
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Ridiculous thread.
UO, EQ, Asheron's Call, Runescap,Daoc.. started it all.
If anything they stole from those games. EQ2 and Wow started/released around the same time.
Every mmorpg released after those first games should be considered a fraud if you consider WoW fraudulent.
apart from nitpickers who really gives a crap play what u enjoy /shrug
All games copy some other game in one fashion or another. EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR.
"There is a certain undeniable power in the void; within lies an unspoken promise of greatness, the shadowy truth that man is ruled by fear not of what is seen, but of what he perceives is seen beyond."
If you want to be frank, everyone copied off of Ultima Online since UO basically introduced and popularized MMO gaming to society and the world back in 1997.
Technically, MMOs copied everything from MUDs which were created in the 80s. And MUDs derived everything from the pen and paper Dungeons & Dragons.
People equate WoW or EQ2 and being copied by each other because that is all they know. MMOs have been around for over a decade now. Though the style and game play has changed significantly.
All games copy some other game in one fashion or another. EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR.
EQ actually copied very little from UO, EQ1 is entirely D&D. The monsters, attributes, classes etc all of it was taken purely from D&D. UO and AC at least tried a different approach, one that has since been given up by most MMO companies, with the classless skill based system. AC even had an original world without using the standard spider, wolf, bear, etc monsters. Although to be fair the mouse man people in UO were always my favorites.
Eq2 came before Wow, but nice try
And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.D
EverQuest II and World of Warcraft launched within 4 days of each other. So unless Blizzard created, printed, published World of Warcraft in just 4 days the statement that they copied anything from EverQuest II is stupid.
Fact is everyone borrows from each other, just like most cars have 4 wheels and a motor.
If you want to talk about copy - let's ask the pen & paper RPG'ers what they think of MMORPGs....
I played D&D in the late 70's through the 80's to the 90's. The main difference between MMo's and paper and pen games, imho, is that after the game you don't have to rearrange your furniture, clean up all the empty soda bottles and coffee cups(or beer cans and bongs) and the fat boy who always played a wizard didn't scarf the last piece of pizza.
There is also not a lot of yelling and screaming when some one's best character is killed by orcs because the rest of the group decided not to help after he led them into yet 1 more trap(happens in MMO's but unless you have Teamspeak or Ventrilo you don't hear the anguished cries).
The last difference is that it is a heck of a lot easier to log into a game(usually) then it is rounding up the usual cast of players to play a game.
Why don't we all stop caring about who did what first and just play the games we like to play? You're not corporate lawyers, you have nothing to gain by arguing this point besides e-peen inches.
I think people forget that Blizzard released Diablo long before EQ was out and even though it wasn't an MMO per se', it still shares a lot of the same characteristics (quests, levels, bosses, classes, gear upgrades, etc). I realize Diablo wasn't original either, but the point is, you could just as easily say EQ copied from Diablo as WoW copied from EQ.
The long and short answer of this is really a lot simpler than that:
Game developers, like any other creator of creative content, tend to go after trends of what seems to be selling and consequently will tend to copy the hell out of eachother.
In this way, it's a silly thing to say that simply following the progression of creative content makes you a fraud. Everyone's standing on the shoulders of giants, that's just the way it is.
Although, in Blizzard's case, they do have a long history of taking other people's ideas and improving them. For example, the original Warcraft was so heavily based on Westwood's Dune 2 to the point where Westwood attempted to sue them over it. Diablo pulls a lot from the roguelike genre. Even Blackthorne could be seen as a Prince of Persia refinement.
Very little of what Blizzard does is truly original. Instead, they take pre-existing games, and refine the snot out of them. Are they wrong to do so? Not necessarily. It turns out gamers really well refined pre-existing games. That's an approach that has Blizzard known as "the company that can do no wrong," and garnered them a fanbase that catapulted WoW into the millions.
In EverQuest 2 versus WoW, there were some things that EQ2 introduced that showed up in WoW as soon as they caught word of it, such as the Griffin Towers for a transport system... although, strictly speaking, this isn't all that different from what Dark Age of Camelot did with their mounts.
Bad troll is winning BIG TIME. Go troll Go, are you full from all the feeding yet?
You really couldn't, simply because EQ was well into development when Diablo was released. While they may share some similar elements, it's more an effect of them pulling inspiration from similar sources than from each other.
If he was trying to troll, he did us a favor by accident.
The thing is, it's often a question amongst those who notice EQ2's release date immediately preceded WOW and that WoW picks up quite a few EQ2-unique features, did WoW copy EQ2?
My answer, sure, everybody copies everybody. Welcome to game development.
Umm i think Wold of Warcraft copped Everquest but i havent played Everquest yet so i woudent know but all i know is that World of Warcraft is pretty good.
This isn;t gonna get anywere lol
WoW is known to copy... They stole a lot of their ideas from Warhammer. This was before it was a mmo.. But thats why WoW and Warhammer seem very similar. At least EQ2 is pretty neat.. No where as good as the first but hey, its still really fun.
WoW took the adrenaline/rage idea from Guild Wars's warrior class.
No one copied anyone, What we see as copying is what our game genre has become. WoW and EQ2 Are the basic MMO outline that we see shaped in almost every game we play because they were very succesful. Developers fail to invent new concepts to change the genre and the simplistic gameplay we see repeated in almost every MMORPG today. So essentially every game is a copy, a mix of several. You know that Aion has merged 10 games into one to create a polish, as did warhammer and others.
If you want to be "realistic", in the sense that you are talking. World of Warcraft copied aspects from Everquest I. Everquest I copied aspects from Neverwinter Nights, who copied aspects from The Realm online, who copied aspects from previous non-mmorpg games.
It took a great deal of work to get where we are today and in no means is anyone copying anyone. They each took aspects from each other and evolved.
EQ/EQII/WoW/SWG/AoC/WAR/EVE/RYZOM/AO/DAoC/Lineage/LineageII/VG/GW/LOTRO/COH/COV
I've played them all, I've reviewed them all.
Fraud as a criminal act, generally
In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them – usually, to obtain property or services unjustly. [5] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception," or something similar.
Fraud for profit
Fraud for profit involves industry professionals. There are generally multiple loan transactions with several financial institutions involved. These frauds include numerous gross misrepresentations including: income is overstated, assets are overstated, collateral is overstated, the length of employment is overstated or fictitious employment is reported, and employment is backstopped by conspirators. The borrower's debts are not fully disclosed, nor is the borrower's credit history, which is often altered. Often, the borrower assumes the identity of another person (straw buyer). The borrower states he intends to use the property for occupancy when he/she intends to use the property for rental income, or is purchasing the property for another party (nominee). Appraisals almost always list the property as owner-occupied. Down payments do not exist or are borrowed and disguised with a fraudulent gift letter. The property value is inflated (faulty appraisal) to increase the sales value to make up for no down payment and to generate cash proceeds in fraud for profit.
Marriage fraud
Marriage fraud can take several forms and is the act of entering a marriage for personal gain rather than a genuine desire to enter into a sincere marital relationship. Marriage Fraud is usually associated with obtaining immigration benefits. In the United States, marriage fraud for immigration purposes is punishable under INA §204(c)(1) and the Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments of 1986. Possible criminal penalties include $250,000 and 5 years in prison as well as deportation and a permanent bar against receiving future immigration status. Marriage Fraud can be either unilateral or bilateral Unity and Immigration Policy in the United States. In a unilateral marriage fraud, only one party is aware of the fraud and the fraud is against both the immigration service as well as the other party. The innocent party may file a lawsuit and/or annulment of the marriage. In a bilateral fraud, both parties are aware of it and both parties are subject to criminal penalties.
Academic fraud
In academia and science, fraud can refer to academic fraud – the falsifying of research findings which is a form of scientific misconduct – and in common use intellectual fraud signifies falsification of a position taken or implied by an author or speaker, within a book, controversy or debate, or an idea deceptively presented to hide known logical weaknesses. Journalistic fraud implies a similar notion, the falsification of journalistic findings.
Fraud as tort
Fraud, in addition to being a criminal act, is also a type of civil law violation known as a tort. A tort is a civil wrong for which the law provides a remedy. A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment. A "false representation" can take many forms, such as:
* A false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made;
* A statement of fact with no reasonable basis to make that statement;
* A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised;
* A statement of opinion based on a false statement of fact;
* A statement of opinion that the maker knows to be false; or
* An expression of opinion that is false, made by one claiming or implying to have special knowledge of the subject matter of the opinion. "Special knowledge" in this case means knowledge or information superior to that possessed by the other party, and to which the other party did not have equal access.
* An intentional omission or concealment of some material fact done with the design of deceiving another party, and done with the intent that the other party rely on the deception.
I think it is a marriage fraud.
Eq2 came before Wow, but nice try
And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.
Copying features from another game isn't really being a "fraud" the op is surely misuing the word or just didn't know which word to put there. Though fraud makes people come here instead of another "copy paste" thread.
Besides, if taking good features from another company is bad, just look at all other merchandise,food,cars and whatnots. It's everywhere, don't think it's just around a game. And yes, im overdoing it
By FOUR freak'n days EQ2 launch first. FOUR days. And for the record, EQ2 was such crap, it never recovered and now WoW has nearly 12 million ACTIVE subscribers while while SOE doesn't have ONE million active subscribers with all of their MMORPGs combined. So please, stop trying to crap on WoW.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Four days may be enough for some genius programmers to add all sort of cool stuff they saw on another game...It's possible.
Ohh look! A pig with wings! (Follows blindly after it)
The copying of interface elements and some parts of the game structure such as how rage works for warriors seem to be very small things. If you look at the difference in player base between the two.. surely Warcraft must have some large elements that EQ2 does not.
If they were exactly the same they would have equal player bases, right? Saying that who knows maybe Blizzard just got lucky but in my experience of the two games although many elements may look the same actually playing the games are two totally seperate experiences
**EDIT**
Copying is one of the natural process of life that makes things get upgraded, people take the idea elements make a slight change, tweak it a little and make it their own. This happens over and over again and thats something we have to accept, earlier things are a basis for later things.
e.g. An V6 engine gets developed and someones comes along thinking hmm.... I wonder if i can add more valves to that
There is a reason people from your past did not make it to your future.