You people just hate on. That's ok. It must be tough tough knowing you're wrong yet still carrying on beating a dead horse. I understand that you obviously need to vent at someone or something. My little kids do that all the time too. When you grow up you'll not feel that need as much.
.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.
By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.
I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.
The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.
Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".
Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.
Bren
This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it. You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.
.. and yet, it appears that most of the members of MMORPG.COM have little to no issue with the decision to not have open world interiors. That, and it would also appear that most are reasonable and level headed and aren't campaigning to have the game fail because their particular desires weren't specifically catered to.
By the way, it's pretty hard not to sound insulting to someone such as yourself when your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par, as evidenced in so many posts you make in various sections throughout these forums. Sometimes it's almost sad how you get things mixed up but yet try and come off like you know what you were responding to.
I'll give you the short bus version though, just so you can keep up.
The point that was made was that there is a small sub-group that hang about here that show up whenever an issue of "immersion" or "catering to RPers" pops up in most of the games, and they always have pretty much the same things to say, and will vote in any poll on the side of any issue that they see as supporting their preferred play style.
Thankfully it is as it is in the games. They're essentially an inconsequential number. A tiny group that already has everything they need in most every game that gets released simply due to this genre's nature., but one that wants to be made to feel like they're "special someones".
Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.
Bren
This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it. You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.
You need to go back and reread what I wrote "mate". I never once insulted you personally I only stated some things about your post content. You on the other hand spew personal insults left and right in almost every post you make. If anything I'm more of a mirror where you're concerned. You look at me and see yourself. We are the one's that only hate and need to grow up? Like I said... a mirror and not a pane of glass at all. Even in the post you quoted above I stated what your post contains and not a thing about you personally. You on the other hand took it as an opening to throw some more personal attacks at me. Now who's the one trolling here? This is the exact reason why most here don't take what you write very seriously.
Bren
Edit: Oh well, this is starting to derail this thread and if we continue it will get locked so this is the last post I'll make as I know you and you'll just keep going even if you're losing. Have a great day Hagonbok.
Actually, never mind. These issues are just about a game after all, and the reactions some have had have gone a bit too far imo as well.
Now that I've seen the extent to which some will go simply to try and shut up an opposing viewpoint, I've realized that what's being dealt with here goes beyond just people reacting to a decision made. Some have taken opinions held as personal affronts, and are acting out on that. For my part I'm bowing out of the discussion of these particular issues here so as not to have anyone else go too far ( at least one here has taken it too far over at the STO forums already).
I voted, "No but it would be nice" because I don't really care about it, but see how it would be important to other players.
Personally, I don't care about the "Prime Directive" or the "Airborne Pathogen on Elgin Prime" or "Our Android/Shapeshifter/Hologram/Recovering Borg's Pinnochio Syndrome".
I've always been more interested in the ships of Star Trek than the preaching. I'd be perfectly happy to never visit "10-Forward" or "Quark's". Like, really, REALLY happy. I just want to patrol the Neutral Zone and torpedo Romulan Scoutships.
The only away mission I'd be interesed in is the one where I laugh at Apollo until he gets all emo and my ship phasers his temple and he dies.
For those of you who really want to try the player crew experience, I recommend Starquest Online. Not the most polished game, but free download and trial, and you might just find some of what you're looking for. Or at least realize the complications involved.
I really hate having these multi quotes going, but have not figured out how to select what I want only.
Not to go off topic again but all you need to do is click and drag over what you want to cut out to select it and then hit the backspace or the delete key. If you end up with an empty quote box just hit backspace 1-3 more times until it disappears. It's a little tricky at first but with a little practice you'll be a pro at it in no time.
Oh and I don't think I stated my vote in the poll yet. I chose: Yes, but I'll still play. I won't deny that the announcement of no player ship interiors at launch was quite a shock to me. At first I was rather upset over it and didn't think I'd touch STO until they were added as many including myself stated just after the announcement was made. But in time I calmed down a little and got to thinking that it is still going to be the only Star Trek MMO around for a very long time. I will still play but will be very happy when they eventually add them.
Oh and Hagonbok... I don't really give a hoot if your opinion differs from mine but when I read page after page of you belittling other posters and calling them either directly or indirectly idiots, morons or delusional I've got to say something. Everyone here has differing opinions on just about everything... that is what makes this site great. It's just that most can argue those opinions without having to belittle and insult others to get their point across. If you know my post history as well as you claim you know that 80% of the time I step into a topic, state my opinions on said topic after reading the thread up to that point and move on. 15-20% of the time I may make a few more posts to clarify my opinions or to argue a few points. 1-5% of the time I do get into a heated debate with another poster like I just did with you but I always try to end it before it spirals out of control. I never stick around through 10-20 pages of a thread making the same points over and over again while spewing insults to boot. I have absolutely nothing against you personally... I don't even know you personally. There is nothing wrong with having an opposing viewpoint just try to be a little nicer to your fellow posters in the future, OK?
Im not really a Star Trek fan, but like watching the series sometimes. The series wouldnt be the same without the scenes on the ships. I find it a bad move for any development team to not include ship interiors.
Edit: Checked the devs' reasons. To me they appear like devs that avoid any challenge in development and hope the IP will be enough to attract players. Too bad I cant change my choice in the poll.
Im not really a Star Trek fan, but like watching the series sometimes. The series wouldnt be the same without the scenes on the ships. I find it a bad move for any development team to not include ship interiors. The thing is in the shows you are watching the actors play out the plot of that episode... you can't really do that in a game. Edit: Checked the devs' reasons. To me they appear like devs that avoid any challenge in development and hope the IP will be enough to attract players. Too bad I cant change my choice in the poll. All things consider, the fact that the game is probably going launch early next year, and only having the license for such a short time, I think the push themselves to get where they are. When PE died I thought STO with them.
Im not really a Star Trek fan, but like watching the series sometimes. The series wouldnt be the same without the scenes on the ships. I find it a bad move for any development team to not include ship interiors. The thing is in the shows you are watching the actors play out the plot of that episode... you can't really do that in a game. Edit: Checked the devs' reasons. To me they appear like devs that avoid any challenge in development and hope the IP will be enough to attract players. Too bad I cant change my choice in the poll. All things consider, the fact that the game is probably going launch early next year, and only having the license for such a short time, I think the push themselves to get where they are. When PE died I thought STO with them.
Yeah , I also thought this thing wasnt going to happen, If it does I want it done right but im not sure about this one, but I will definatelygive it a shot, i best be at least able to access vital areas suh as bridge, med bay, engineer, a holo deck and maybe a cargo bay or a corridor of 2, also the shuttle bay (sorta a plane buff). damn thats like most of the shp.. I just dont want to set up another game on a pedastol so high it disappoints... I want a decent star trek or stargate mmo
Oh and Hagonbok... I don't really give a hoot if your opinion differs from mine but when I read page after page of you belittling other posters and calling them either directly or indirectly idiots, morons or delusional I've got to say something. Everyone here has differing opinions on just about everything... that is what makes this site great. It's just that most can argue those opinions without having to belittle and insult others to get their point across. If you know my post history as well as you claim you know that 80% of the time I step into a topic, state my opinions on said topic after reading the thread up to that point and move on. 15-20% of the time I may make a few more posts to clarify my opinions or to argue a few points. 1-5% of the time I do get into a heated debate with another poster like I just did with you but I always try to end it before it spirals out of control. I never stick around through 10-20 pages of a thread making the same points over and over again while spewing insults to boot. I have absolutely nothing against you personally... I don't even know you personally. There is nothing wrong with having an opposing viewpoint just try to be a little nicer to your fellow posters in the future, OK?
Bren
Yeah, I think my last post was unnecessary and not constructive but that's a key point you bring up. Hagon doesn't exactly win points for high moral ground here based on how he's been behaving. If I did get a little personally steamed at him it's not because of any rational argument he attempted to make but by his attitude. Taking a cheap shot at him like I did really hurts me more than him because I look like a jerk and usually I manage to think before I hit "Post Message."
Why do people get worked up about something as silly as computer games? Well, for one reason, because they can. The lower the stakes the more vicious the fighting. It also has to do with ego, I'm as guilty here as Hagon is, because more motivated players often have visions of how games "should" work based on what they enjoy. In the past we can point to examples of game designers changing their designs based on what "players" supposedly want. So players will pile into forums and argue in hopes of getting what they're looking for. Hagon wants immersive RvR that will motivate, if not force, masses of players to take sides and participate in a huge war. OddjobXL wants an immersive representation of a setting in which force isn't always the answer and in which crews (both NPC and player) on ships are the focus. Hagon knows that creating interiors or multiplayer ships will take designer time away from any other elements, including PvP content and design, so he's violently against it. OddjobXL knows that a focus on PvP will take designer time, and design concentration, away from immersive setting oriented elements.
Neither of us really has a clue what the developers are doing. All we have are vague assertions. We can, and have, both put forward developer statements that seem to support what we want to see in the game. However, our assumption is that a game can't be both things: a deep RvR PvP game that involves the majority of players on some level and a game that carries the essense of The Federation and its peaceful, scientific, ideals which is the heart of Star Trek.
Maybe we're both wrong and a game can do these things. But until we see how things shake out, arguing our points and sometimes getting steamed, personally, about it is just how things work. Hopefully I'll think before I hit "Post Message" next time. But I have had discussions with players who disagreed with me and were civil before and I tend to respond to what I see. If I see arrogance, I respond with arrogance. If I see disdain, I respond with disdain.
From my first post in the STO forums here I've been at Hagon. Deliberately. He was just so off the mark and cruel to people I figured he needed to meet the razor-brimmed bowler I've honed for many years in many forums. That's not a great reason to post on a gaming forum. So I screwed up too.
When people are posting things that are clearly made up to support a position, there's generally no "nice" way to confront them. That and read back through these discussions and anyone can see just who the people are that "cruel" to people. Right from the very start anyone that didn't appear to be agreeing with the crowd condemning Cryptic has been called unintelligent and/or a Cryptic fanboi.
If you don't like being talked to in a direct manner, and don't like having what you state as fact challenged, then maybe posting on forums isn't the thing you should be doing. If something is wrong, it's wrong. If someone is talking out of their butt, they're talking out of their butt, and there's nothing wrong with telling them that's what they're doing. I don't know you, and don't feel any need to be "polite" to people that are being underhanded, and negative for no good reason. People that are trying to harm a game by trying to drum up an aura of negativity around it don't deserve anything but in your face treatment, and that's exactly what some have been trying to do here, and that's the treatment they've gotten.
They didn't get exactly what they wanted when they want it, and so now in their minds they're going to try and make Cryptic hurt by creating an illusion of controversy and negativity where there really isn't any. They're hoping that people that start to look into the game will see all this negativity and get turned off, thus driving interest in the game down so they can come back later and say "see, I told you so". Or more likely hoping to have it pressure Cryptic into changing their minds.
That's what's been going on here. Some people talking out of their butts with nothing out there to back it up except what they've come up with using their imagination.In most cases all evidence and trends show that what this crowd keeps saying is utter bunk. Stuff that has no basis in reality.
Oddjob, for the most part you live in a world of complete fantasy in respect to your positions and opinions on these games. You never have any evidence to back up these wild claims you make, and in fact when someone is taking a closer look and examing the trends and such, it becomes clear that the reality is almost completely opposite from how you seem to see it. Just how is someone supposed to let you and others know that "nicely". Although "nice" was tried, and not just by me either. It was tried and it failed. It in fact was completely ignored, and in the end insulted and berated.
You keep posting as if you've had some effect on me. That you've managed to "score" some points. or some such nonsense. They haven't. They've simply just been ever more evidence that your bias clouds your judgement, you post fallacies, and in fact quite often blatant falsehoods, and that you take these kinds of discussions far too personally.
That and you clearly fancy yourself as some sort of "Defender of the faith" when it comes to a particular style of play. So much so that you waded into these discussions both here and over at the STO forums without even knowing much at all about the game being talked about. You still don't. You still keep making posts that clearly show that you either haven't read much about the game at all, or that what you do read doesn't get understood. You also keep showing that you in fact have very limited experience playing these games. Oh you might have a lot of time in with one particular game, but clearly you've only experienced that one game (or maybe one other). Which is perfectly alright. That fact alone wouldn't preclude your opinions being valid. The thing is though, you keep stating things as if they're more than opinion. You keep stating them as fact, and you get angry and vindictive when anyone points out that something is indeed not fact, and in truth is completely wrong.
In the end better just get over the fact that if you post your wild and completely unrealistic musings, and I see them, chances are that I'm going to continue to respond shooting holes in what you have to say.
I love discussion and debate, and many many people over at the STO forums can attest to the fact that I engage in it cordially most of the time, and have done so since the very first evening those forums went up. The thing is though, when people are taking part in it dishonestly, then I turn a bit snake eyed. I feel no need to show the same respect to those types of people as I do to most others. Simple as that.
You and Bren and anyone else are free to report my posts if you think I'm being insulting and whatnot, but what you think of me, and what you write about me, matters nothing to me. To me these kinds of posts trying to make me into the "bad guy" just means you're positions are weak and you've realized it. As well that you're making things personal, and that's getting borderline coo coo for coco puffs if you ask me.
If you didn't care you wouldn't have replied especially after saying you were done posting here.
As for our respective grips on reality you're the one who keeps making grandiose statements about how PoBs in SWG suck, how nobody uses them, and SOE's never done anything with them. And when people (not just myself) point out that people do use them (even though they admittedly do kinda suck in gameplay, there's no content for them and they're weak in PvP, they're just awesome fun to mess around with) and SOE added new PoB's as recently as a year and a half ago you've got no response other than to talk about "what everyone knows." Except, evidently, people who actually play SWG and know what they're talking about.
Hagon, seriously, look in a mirror.
You seem to be a defender of your own gaming faith.
You seem to have no problem spreading fallicies you can't back up.
You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder and take things too personally.
And this is what you're accusing me of?
This is called projection. It's a psychological term of art. Look it up.
Just what "gaming faith" do I have? You seem pretty sure of it. So please do tell everyone just what "gaming faith", or play style I guess is what we're talking about here, I belong to. I'm sure there's a few anxiously awaiting your answer.
I'll save you some time, and save you looking silly.
Truth is you know nothing about what I prefer and what I don't prefer (although if you've been paying attention you may have picked up a few hints along the way). You see, unlike yourself, I don't let my personal preferences bias my opinions on what I believe will be good for the game in the end. I'm fully cognisant that some of my personal preferences would in fact be bad for the game were they to be implemented, or some would be too hard for them to get in before release, and I say so if that's the case. I often find myself actually posting against my personal preferences and chosen playing style sometimes, because I know that in the end it's the health of the game that's the most important. Both in what the developer can do before release, and after, as well as what features should be included and what should be left out. I also know that generally there's certain basic things a game needs to provide for me to be able to enjoy it, and so I can keep an open mind and adapt to things I may not prefer and accept things I do prefer not being there.
There are things that sometimes match up though. Where what I prefer and what I believe is good for the game are the same. This game has features I do not personally prefer I assure you, and there's decisions of much much greater importance to the potential health of this game at release yet to come that may very well go contrary to my personal preferences and what I believe would be good for it as well. Should Cryptic go in a different direction it's not going to stop me from playing it though, or have me denouncing the game. I'll be disappointed to be sure, and I'll voice that disappointment ONCE I have no doubt, but then I'll move on and figure out how to adapt.
Moving on, point out one statement I have made without backing it up with clearly provable examples.
That PoBs in SWG are unpopular isn't an opinion. That's fact. A few hundred people doesn't make something popular, and that's all that anyone trying the game out will ever see using them.
That you're only retort is to repeat what I said back at me I think clearly shows that you've come to realize you have nothing.
I'd tell you "nice try", but really I've seen a lot better over the years. In the end it's been pretty sub-par actually.
Poster above: No offese, but you are definatly my first pick for klingon development for the game. From the agreesivness right down to the blind honor of a klingon. Someone from development needs you to be the first and formost targeted audience for the klingon race.
I think if you look at the storyline of this game, thats where the dollars well spent are gonna be found. Just the fact that the person writing the storyline would take the amount of time that they have to just read the books, movies, shows and even pull in people from the comic books and other projects shows me that this is gonna be a must have game if you want storyline of star trek. As far as ship interioros goes, they are gonna have them, weather its on relese or not is up to them, I'm gonna still be forking out as much money on this thing as I can. What can I say im a die hard star trek fan who wants to know the whole storyline of star trek.
Poster above: No offese, but you are definatly my first pick for klingon development for the game. From the agreesivness right down to the blind honor of a klingon. Someone from development needs you to be the first and formost targeted audience for the klingon race.
I think if you look at the storyline of this game, thats where the dollars well spent are gonna be found. Just the fact that the person writing the storyline would take the amount of time that they have to just read the books, movies, shows and even pull in people from the comic books and other projects shows me that this is gonna be a must have game if you want storyline of star trek. As far as ship interioros goes, they are gonna have them, weather its on relese or not is up to them, I'm gonna still be forking out as much money on this thing as I can. What can I say im a die hard star trek fan who wants to know the whole storyline of star trek.
Never been a fan of storys in mmogs. Not saying I dont like lore but lore should be seen and experienced in the game not thru a text bubble.
And while they will add interiors later on (maybe) its not the same if it was planed for release. Its about the direction the devs are taking the game or IP even. The development screams themepark or worse gimmicky.
I dont know the reasons for others not likeing this decision but to me its like saying were adding in the ability to own a city and customize it but you cant walk in your city and no one actualy lives there.
Im sure it will be a fun game and the wow killer like a pre-release games are. But A Star Trek MMO has so much potential to be a good sci-fi sandbox.
Never been a fan of storys in mmogs. Not saying I dont like lore but lore should be seen and experienced in the game not thru a text bubble. And while they will add interiors later on (maybe) its not the same if it was planed for release. Its about the direction the devs are taking the game or IP even. The development screams themepark or worse gimmicky. I dont know the reasons for others not likeing this decision but to me its like saying were adding in the ability to own a city and customize it but you cant walk in your city and no one actualy lives there. Im sure it will be a fun game and the wow killer like a pre-release games are. But A Star Trek MMO has so much potential to be a good sci-fi sandbox.
Star Trek Online is already a niche game... you really what to make even more niche by making it completely sandbox?
That is a really bad Idea. Most MMOs, have a sandbox element (yes even WoW) anyway. You aren't set in the linear path, outside maybe a tutorial... It may not completely sandbox like Eve, but still. Making Star Trek too sandbox is going to make the game even more niche...
Never been a fan of storys in mmogs. Not saying I dont like lore but lore should be seen and experienced in the game not thru a text bubble. And while they will add interiors later on (maybe) its not the same if it was planed for release. Its about the direction the devs are taking the game or IP even. The development screams themepark or worse gimmicky. I dont know the reasons for others not likeing this decision but to me its like saying were adding in the ability to own a city and customize it but you cant walk in your city and no one actualy lives there. Im sure it will be a fun game and the wow killer like a pre-release games are. But A Star Trek MMO has so much potential to be a good sci-fi sandbox.
Star Trek Online is already a niche game... you really what to make even more niche by making it completely sandbox?
That is a really bad Idea. Most MMOs, have a sandbox element (yes even WoW) anyway. You aren't set in the linear path, outside maybe a tutorial... It may not completely sandbox like Eve, but still. Making Star Trek too sandbox is going to make the game even more niche...
Niche like LoToR or ... Warcraft. An IP doesnt make it niche. Now it being a sci fi theme maybe but then again If Blizz made WoW with a starcraft theme it would probaly of had the same response. I guess Devs havnt learned that its the game that keeps the customers paying for years not the IP.
But like most devs Theyll just rely on the IP. Still dont know why they got cryptic to make this game. CoH in space ftw
Niche like LoToR or ... Warcraft. An IP doesnt make it niche. Now it being a sci fi theme maybe but then again If Blizz made WoW with a starcraft theme it would probaly of had the same response. I guess Devs havnt learned that its the game that keeps the customers paying for years not the IP. But like most devs Theyll just rely on the IP. Still dont know why they got cryptic to make this game. CoH in space ftw
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
Niche like LoToR or ... Warcraft. An IP doesnt make it niche. Now it being a sci fi theme maybe but then again If Blizz made WoW with a starcraft theme it would probaly of had the same response. I guess Devs havnt learned that its the game that keeps the customers paying for years not the IP. But like most devs Theyll just rely on the IP. Still dont know why they got cryptic to make this game. CoH in space ftw
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
An IP has its uses but keeping players paying isnt one of them. LotR isnt known for its high sub numbers. And even WARs ip didnt keep the mass playing.
An IP is fluff and advertising.
As for full theme park and full sand, actualy I think a Massive game should have both qualities. You dont have to sacrifice one for the other.
Niche like LoToR or ... Warcraft. An IP doesnt make it niche. Now it being a sci fi theme maybe but then again If Blizz made WoW with a starcraft theme it would probaly of had the same response. I guess Devs havnt learned that its the game that keeps the customers paying for years not the IP. But like most devs Theyll just rely on the IP. Still dont know why they got cryptic to make this game. CoH in space ftw
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
An IP has its uses but keeping players paying isnt one of them. LotR isnt known for its high sub numbers. And even WARs ip didnt keep the mass playing.
An IP is fluff and advertising.
As for full theme park and full sand, actualy I think a Massive game should have both qualities. You dont have to sacrifice one for the other.
On that last point I agree. The trouble is that hardcore fans of both genres are usually not satisfied unless it's completely one without a trace of the other.
I agree with those that find it a tad weird and disappointing that such a big aspect of this IP will not be implemented. To me, it sounds rather like a decision to cut development costs than a conscious gameplay decision.
So you're telling me it would not have been awesome to run through your ship to hand pick crews and supplies to prepare to beam down to a planet? Or it wouldn't have blown your socks off to get a chance to beam aboard another players ship for a little 1 on 1 training in their holodeck? Come on guys you're forgetting the little things that made the series great and sparked our interest in the IP in the first place. But I'm all for Earth and Beyond 2.......seriously...oh wait they canceled that first one didn't they.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Or it wouldn't have blown your socks off to get a chance to beam aboard another players ship for a little 1 on 1 training in their holodeck?
They could still do this, sorta... minus the whole beaming over part.
You know like, target someone, then select "Holodeck Duel - Away Party" or "Holodeck Duel - Ship Combat" from a drop down menu... just like other mmos.
They could even do this to work with partys for 5 on 5...
Comments
You people just hate on. That's ok. It must be tough tough knowing you're wrong yet still carrying on beating a dead horse. I understand that you obviously need to vent at someone or something. My little kids do that all the time too. When you grow up you'll not feel that need as much.
Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.
Bren
This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it. You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.
Yeah, like I said Personal attacks and totally opinionated tripe... At least you're consistent and predictable.
Bren
This is your typical M.O.. You wade into discussions spewing insults and such, then try and flip it around that it's the other person doing it. You're as transparent as a pane of glass mate. Go back to troll somewhere else.
You need to go back and reread what I wrote "mate". I never once insulted you personally I only stated some things about your post content. You on the other hand spew personal insults left and right in almost every post you make. If anything I'm more of a mirror where you're concerned. You look at me and see yourself. We are the one's that only hate and need to grow up? Like I said... a mirror and not a pane of glass at all. Even in the post you quoted above I stated what your post contains and not a thing about you personally. You on the other hand took it as an opening to throw some more personal attacks at me. Now who's the one trolling here? This is the exact reason why most here don't take what you write very seriously.
Bren
Edit: Oh well, this is starting to derail this thread and if we continue it will get locked so this is the last post I'll make as I know you and you'll just keep going even if you're losing. Have a great day Hagonbok.
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Edit -
Actually, never mind. These issues are just about a game after all, and the reactions some have had have gone a bit too far imo as well.
Now that I've seen the extent to which some will go simply to try and shut up an opposing viewpoint, I've realized that what's being dealt with here goes beyond just people reacting to a decision made. Some have taken opinions held as personal affronts, and are acting out on that. For my part I'm bowing out of the discussion of these particular issues here so as not to have anyone else go too far ( at least one here has taken it too far over at the STO forums already).
Okaaayyy... so on topic...
I voted, "No but it would be nice" because I don't really care about it, but see how it would be important to other players.
Personally, I don't care about the "Prime Directive" or the "Airborne Pathogen on Elgin Prime" or "Our Android/Shapeshifter/Hologram/Recovering Borg's Pinnochio Syndrome".
I've always been more interested in the ships of Star Trek than the preaching. I'd be perfectly happy to never visit "10-Forward" or "Quark's". Like, really, REALLY happy. I just want to patrol the Neutral Zone and torpedo Romulan Scoutships.
The only away mission I'd be interesed in is the one where I laugh at Apollo until he gets all emo and my ship phasers his temple and he dies.
For those of you who really want to try the player crew experience, I recommend Starquest Online. Not the most polished game, but free download and trial, and you might just find some of what you're looking for. Or at least realize the complications involved.
Not to go off topic again but all you need to do is click and drag over what you want to cut out to select it and then hit the backspace or the delete key. If you end up with an empty quote box just hit backspace 1-3 more times until it disappears. It's a little tricky at first but with a little practice you'll be a pro at it in no time.
Oh and I don't think I stated my vote in the poll yet. I chose: Yes, but I'll still play. I won't deny that the announcement of no player ship interiors at launch was quite a shock to me. At first I was rather upset over it and didn't think I'd touch STO until they were added as many including myself stated just after the announcement was made. But in time I calmed down a little and got to thinking that it is still going to be the only Star Trek MMO around for a very long time. I will still play but will be very happy when they eventually add them.
Oh and Hagonbok... I don't really give a hoot if your opinion differs from mine but when I read page after page of you belittling other posters and calling them either directly or indirectly idiots, morons or delusional I've got to say something. Everyone here has differing opinions on just about everything... that is what makes this site great. It's just that most can argue those opinions without having to belittle and insult others to get their point across. If you know my post history as well as you claim you know that 80% of the time I step into a topic, state my opinions on said topic after reading the thread up to that point and move on. 15-20% of the time I may make a few more posts to clarify my opinions or to argue a few points. 1-5% of the time I do get into a heated debate with another poster like I just did with you but I always try to end it before it spirals out of control. I never stick around through 10-20 pages of a thread making the same points over and over again while spewing insults to boot. I have absolutely nothing against you personally... I don't even know you personally. There is nothing wrong with having an opposing viewpoint just try to be a little nicer to your fellow posters in the future, OK?
Bren
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Im not really a Star Trek fan, but like watching the series sometimes. The series wouldnt be the same without the scenes on the ships. I find it a bad move for any development team to not include ship interiors.
Edit: Checked the devs' reasons. To me they appear like devs that avoid any challenge in development and hope the IP will be enough to attract players. Too bad I cant change my choice in the poll.
Yeah , I also thought this thing wasnt going to happen, If it does I want it done right but im not sure about this one, but I will definatelygive it a shot, i best be at least able to access vital areas suh as bridge, med bay, engineer, a holo deck and maybe a cargo bay or a corridor of 2, also the shuttle bay (sorta a plane buff). damn thats like most of the shp.. I just dont want to set up another game on a pedastol so high it disappoints... I want a decent star trek or stargate mmo
I think STO is going to be ok... and just ok, not great.
The hardcore trek gamers will keep it alive no matter how mediocre it is...
Hell my fleet (Romulan Star Command) played SFC3 on GSA for like 2 years before we finally gave it up.
SFC3 wasn't even that great of a game...
Yeah, I think my last post was unnecessary and not constructive but that's a key point you bring up. Hagon doesn't exactly win points for high moral ground here based on how he's been behaving. If I did get a little personally steamed at him it's not because of any rational argument he attempted to make but by his attitude. Taking a cheap shot at him like I did really hurts me more than him because I look like a jerk and usually I manage to think before I hit "Post Message."
Why do people get worked up about something as silly as computer games? Well, for one reason, because they can. The lower the stakes the more vicious the fighting. It also has to do with ego, I'm as guilty here as Hagon is, because more motivated players often have visions of how games "should" work based on what they enjoy. In the past we can point to examples of game designers changing their designs based on what "players" supposedly want. So players will pile into forums and argue in hopes of getting what they're looking for. Hagon wants immersive RvR that will motivate, if not force, masses of players to take sides and participate in a huge war. OddjobXL wants an immersive representation of a setting in which force isn't always the answer and in which crews (both NPC and player) on ships are the focus. Hagon knows that creating interiors or multiplayer ships will take designer time away from any other elements, including PvP content and design, so he's violently against it. OddjobXL knows that a focus on PvP will take designer time, and design concentration, away from immersive setting oriented elements.
Neither of us really has a clue what the developers are doing. All we have are vague assertions. We can, and have, both put forward developer statements that seem to support what we want to see in the game. However, our assumption is that a game can't be both things: a deep RvR PvP game that involves the majority of players on some level and a game that carries the essense of The Federation and its peaceful, scientific, ideals which is the heart of Star Trek.
Maybe we're both wrong and a game can do these things. But until we see how things shake out, arguing our points and sometimes getting steamed, personally, about it is just how things work. Hopefully I'll think before I hit "Post Message" next time. But I have had discussions with players who disagreed with me and were civil before and I tend to respond to what I see. If I see arrogance, I respond with arrogance. If I see disdain, I respond with disdain.
From my first post in the STO forums here I've been at Hagon. Deliberately. He was just so off the mark and cruel to people I figured he needed to meet the razor-brimmed bowler I've honed for many years in many forums. That's not a great reason to post on a gaming forum. So I screwed up too.
Always notice what you notice.
When people are posting things that are clearly made up to support a position, there's generally no "nice" way to confront them. That and read back through these discussions and anyone can see just who the people are that "cruel" to people. Right from the very start anyone that didn't appear to be agreeing with the crowd condemning Cryptic has been called unintelligent and/or a Cryptic fanboi.
If you don't like being talked to in a direct manner, and don't like having what you state as fact challenged, then maybe posting on forums isn't the thing you should be doing. If something is wrong, it's wrong. If someone is talking out of their butt, they're talking out of their butt, and there's nothing wrong with telling them that's what they're doing. I don't know you, and don't feel any need to be "polite" to people that are being underhanded, and negative for no good reason. People that are trying to harm a game by trying to drum up an aura of negativity around it don't deserve anything but in your face treatment, and that's exactly what some have been trying to do here, and that's the treatment they've gotten.
They didn't get exactly what they wanted when they want it, and so now in their minds they're going to try and make Cryptic hurt by creating an illusion of controversy and negativity where there really isn't any. They're hoping that people that start to look into the game will see all this negativity and get turned off, thus driving interest in the game down so they can come back later and say "see, I told you so". Or more likely hoping to have it pressure Cryptic into changing their minds.
That's what's been going on here. Some people talking out of their butts with nothing out there to back it up except what they've come up with using their imagination.In most cases all evidence and trends show that what this crowd keeps saying is utter bunk. Stuff that has no basis in reality.
Oddjob, for the most part you live in a world of complete fantasy in respect to your positions and opinions on these games. You never have any evidence to back up these wild claims you make, and in fact when someone is taking a closer look and examing the trends and such, it becomes clear that the reality is almost completely opposite from how you seem to see it. Just how is someone supposed to let you and others know that "nicely". Although "nice" was tried, and not just by me either. It was tried and it failed. It in fact was completely ignored, and in the end insulted and berated.
You keep posting as if you've had some effect on me. That you've managed to "score" some points. or some such nonsense. They haven't. They've simply just been ever more evidence that your bias clouds your judgement, you post fallacies, and in fact quite often blatant falsehoods, and that you take these kinds of discussions far too personally.
That and you clearly fancy yourself as some sort of "Defender of the faith" when it comes to a particular style of play. So much so that you waded into these discussions both here and over at the STO forums without even knowing much at all about the game being talked about. You still don't. You still keep making posts that clearly show that you either haven't read much about the game at all, or that what you do read doesn't get understood. You also keep showing that you in fact have very limited experience playing these games. Oh you might have a lot of time in with one particular game, but clearly you've only experienced that one game (or maybe one other). Which is perfectly alright. That fact alone wouldn't preclude your opinions being valid. The thing is though, you keep stating things as if they're more than opinion. You keep stating them as fact, and you get angry and vindictive when anyone points out that something is indeed not fact, and in truth is completely wrong.
In the end better just get over the fact that if you post your wild and completely unrealistic musings, and I see them, chances are that I'm going to continue to respond shooting holes in what you have to say.
I love discussion and debate, and many many people over at the STO forums can attest to the fact that I engage in it cordially most of the time, and have done so since the very first evening those forums went up. The thing is though, when people are taking part in it dishonestly, then I turn a bit snake eyed. I feel no need to show the same respect to those types of people as I do to most others. Simple as that.
You and Bren and anyone else are free to report my posts if you think I'm being insulting and whatnot, but what you think of me, and what you write about me, matters nothing to me. To me these kinds of posts trying to make me into the "bad guy" just means you're positions are weak and you've realized it. As well that you're making things personal, and that's getting borderline coo coo for coco puffs if you ask me.
If you didn't care you wouldn't have replied especially after saying you were done posting here.
As for our respective grips on reality you're the one who keeps making grandiose statements about how PoBs in SWG suck, how nobody uses them, and SOE's never done anything with them. And when people (not just myself) point out that people do use them (even though they admittedly do kinda suck in gameplay, there's no content for them and they're weak in PvP, they're just awesome fun to mess around with) and SOE added new PoB's as recently as a year and a half ago you've got no response other than to talk about "what everyone knows." Except, evidently, people who actually play SWG and know what they're talking about.
Hagon, seriously, look in a mirror.
You seem to be a defender of your own gaming faith.
You seem to have no problem spreading fallicies you can't back up.
You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder and take things too personally.
And this is what you're accusing me of?
This is called projection. It's a psychological term of art. Look it up.
Always notice what you notice.
Just what "gaming faith" do I have? You seem pretty sure of it. So please do tell everyone just what "gaming faith", or play style I guess is what we're talking about here, I belong to. I'm sure there's a few anxiously awaiting your answer.
I'll save you some time, and save you looking silly.
Truth is you know nothing about what I prefer and what I don't prefer (although if you've been paying attention you may have picked up a few hints along the way). You see, unlike yourself, I don't let my personal preferences bias my opinions on what I believe will be good for the game in the end. I'm fully cognisant that some of my personal preferences would in fact be bad for the game were they to be implemented, or some would be too hard for them to get in before release, and I say so if that's the case. I often find myself actually posting against my personal preferences and chosen playing style sometimes, because I know that in the end it's the health of the game that's the most important. Both in what the developer can do before release, and after, as well as what features should be included and what should be left out. I also know that generally there's certain basic things a game needs to provide for me to be able to enjoy it, and so I can keep an open mind and adapt to things I may not prefer and accept things I do prefer not being there.
There are things that sometimes match up though. Where what I prefer and what I believe is good for the game are the same. This game has features I do not personally prefer I assure you, and there's decisions of much much greater importance to the potential health of this game at release yet to come that may very well go contrary to my personal preferences and what I believe would be good for it as well. Should Cryptic go in a different direction it's not going to stop me from playing it though, or have me denouncing the game. I'll be disappointed to be sure, and I'll voice that disappointment ONCE I have no doubt, but then I'll move on and figure out how to adapt.
Moving on, point out one statement I have made without backing it up with clearly provable examples.
That PoBs in SWG are unpopular isn't an opinion. That's fact. A few hundred people doesn't make something popular, and that's all that anyone trying the game out will ever see using them.
That you're only retort is to repeat what I said back at me I think clearly shows that you've come to realize you have nothing.
I'd tell you "nice try", but really I've seen a lot better over the years. In the end it's been pretty sub-par actually.
Poster above: No offese, but you are definatly my first pick for klingon development for the game. From the agreesivness right down to the blind honor of a klingon. Someone from development needs you to be the first and formost targeted audience for the klingon race.
I think if you look at the storyline of this game, thats where the dollars well spent are gonna be found. Just the fact that the person writing the storyline would take the amount of time that they have to just read the books, movies, shows and even pull in people from the comic books and other projects shows me that this is gonna be a must have game if you want storyline of star trek. As far as ship interioros goes, they are gonna have them, weather its on relese or not is up to them, I'm gonna still be forking out as much money on this thing as I can. What can I say im a die hard star trek fan who wants to know the whole storyline of star trek.
Never been a fan of storys in mmogs. Not saying I dont like lore but lore should be seen and experienced in the game not thru a text bubble.
And while they will add interiors later on (maybe) its not the same if it was planed for release. Its about the direction the devs are taking the game or IP even. The development screams themepark or worse gimmicky.
I dont know the reasons for others not likeing this decision but to me its like saying were adding in the ability to own a city and customize it but you cant walk in your city and no one actualy lives there.
Im sure it will be a fun game and the wow killer like a pre-release games are. But A Star Trek MMO has so much potential to be a good sci-fi sandbox.
Star Trek Online is already a niche game... you really what to make even more niche by making it completely sandbox?
That is a really bad Idea. Most MMOs, have a sandbox element (yes even WoW) anyway. You aren't set in the linear path, outside maybe a tutorial... It may not completely sandbox like Eve, but still. Making Star Trek too sandbox is going to make the game even more niche...
Star Trek Online is already a niche game... you really what to make even more niche by making it completely sandbox?
That is a really bad Idea. Most MMOs, have a sandbox element (yes even WoW) anyway. You aren't set in the linear path, outside maybe a tutorial... It may not completely sandbox like Eve, but still. Making Star Trek too sandbox is going to make the game even more niche...
Niche like LoToR or ... Warcraft. An IP doesnt make it niche. Now it being a sci fi theme maybe but then again If Blizz made WoW with a starcraft theme it would probaly of had the same response. I guess Devs havnt learned that its the game that keeps the customers paying for years not the IP.
But like most devs Theyll just rely on the IP. Still dont know why they got cryptic to make this game. CoH in space ftw
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
An IP has its uses but keeping players paying isnt one of them. LotR isnt known for its high sub numbers. And even WARs ip didnt keep the mass playing.
An IP is fluff and advertising.
As for full theme park and full sand, actualy I think a Massive game should have both qualities. You dont have to sacrifice one for the other.
I don't think LOTR would have lasted if it didn't have the LOTR name... so IP does help.
My point was you get more people to play by making it a mostly "themepark" (I hate that term, all games have a theme, even Eve) but with some sandbox elements. It about structure... complete sandbox, doesn't really have any... the average gamer needs it.
But at the same time you to give them more then one choice too.
An IP has its uses but keeping players paying isnt one of them. LotR isnt known for its high sub numbers. And even WARs ip didnt keep the mass playing.
An IP is fluff and advertising.
As for full theme park and full sand, actualy I think a Massive game should have both qualities. You dont have to sacrifice one for the other.
On that last point I agree. The trouble is that hardcore fans of both genres are usually not satisfied unless it's completely one without a trace of the other.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I agree with those that find it a tad weird and disappointing that such a big aspect of this IP will not be implemented. To me, it sounds rather like a decision to cut development costs than a conscious gameplay decision.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Its the main reason why I won't play it.
So you're telling me it would not have been awesome to run through your ship to hand pick crews and supplies to prepare to beam down to a planet? Or it wouldn't have blown your socks off to get a chance to beam aboard another players ship for a little 1 on 1 training in their holodeck? Come on guys you're forgetting the little things that made the series great and sparked our interest in the IP in the first place. But I'm all for Earth and Beyond 2.......seriously...oh wait they canceled that first one didn't they.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
They could still do this, sorta... minus the whole beaming over part.
You know like, target someone, then select "Holodeck Duel - Away Party" or "Holodeck Duel - Ship Combat" from a drop down menu... just like other mmos.
They could even do this to work with partys for 5 on 5...