If the OP actually did some reading he'd see that MO is going from initial development to release in 2 years, which means it's a rush job for MMO standards. If the OP had read the features more carefully he'd see that MO will have half the features that Darkfall currently has in game.
It's funny how people jump on the fanboy train for the latest vaporware. When Darkfall was first announced people thought it would be the greatest game ever. Get real people.
Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red. Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.) Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Seems very similar to Lineage 2's karma system.
The difference in L2 is that if you go "red/chaotic" in L2 and already have 5 or more PK's (it keeps track), and someone kills you, you "pop like a pinata" as they say, dropping potentially multiple items - including potentially expensive gear. It does give people pause before they decide to go screwing with people... especially if they don't know whether they can beat you or not.
It's true, though, that people can find work-arounds with any penalty/flagging system. I think what has had a stronger affect on people's behavior in L2 isn't so much the karma system, but the potential repercussions of screwing with the wrong person/people - say, un-tagged alts of a very powerful clan or ally. You could end up with a very nasty war on your hands, and some clans simply aren't prepared to deal with that.
In any case, it's a good system overall... but I think MO should have some kind of extra disincentive to abusing "going red" - such as loss of gear if killed as in L2. People think nothing of going red - some wear it as a badge, in fact, if there's no "physical" penalties. Add the risk of losing potentially valuable items and it makes it a bit more meaningful.
I think thats fair...but you have to have a buffer on the allowable PKs.
When L2 first came out, you went chaotic/red on your first PK AND risked losing a piece of armor or weapon you spent the last 3-4 months working for. The problem with this was that players were able to avoid the PvP flagging system and grief you. There isn't anything you can do about the situation if the other person doesn't flag back. Your then faced with a situation where you either give this kid a dirt nap and risk loosing your stuff or take the griefing.....either way the griefer wins.
Hell... when L2 first came out, you could lose gear/items if a mob killed you. Players could simply mob train you and avoid risking going red at all; and it was considered a valid PvP tactic. GMs would not intervene in PvP at all. L2 was a pretty harsh game back then.
They later changed it to where you can't drop any items until after 5 PKs. This allows players to evoke player justice when people grief or act like an a-hole while avoiding the PvP system.
Yeah, but only if the person going red is dumb enough to do so without having done a few sin-eater quests to get under 5. Frankly, if someone has 5+ PKs, goes out in their full gear, goes red, gets dropped and loses stuff... they deserve it. I mean, L2 makes it *very* feasible to be an "avid ganker" without ever losing gear if you wanted to. If you're not an ass-hat who takes pride in being "perma-red", you pretty much never have to worry about losing gear in L2 anymore... hacks or scams notwithstanding.
This one guy on Gustin did that. He'd go around attacking people he didn't like, for whatever reason. Then he'd go find some hiding spot and work off his PKs by doing sin-eaters. I believe he did at least one sin-eater every day. But it was fine with him.. all he played for was PvP. Sin-eaters were "the price of admission", so to speak.
You also have to create a system that allows you to work those PK counts off over time so that you can police situations like that over the life of the game. It has to be teadious and/or hard to keep people from abusing it (kind of like DF). Ultima forced you to spend 24 hours of game time to burn off one count. Lineage 2 forced you to sacrafice the experience you got for killing monsters to level a pet up (sin eater)....which could take hours of mind numbing monster bashing. Both are a pain in the ass and serve as a way to keep player justice evergreen and PKs from abusing the system.
I dunno.. again, I knew of people who had sin-eaters down to a science. It was part of their routine. If you're that dedicated to racking up that many PKs, then I guess you kinda get used to it. That said, L2's penalties are far less harsh than they used to be.
In any case, I do think that while the ability to attack anyone, anytime, anywhere is fine... there definitely should be some kind of repercussions to those who do it; something to make them really pick their fights more carefully, rather than just going gonzo on everything that moves.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If the OP actually did some reading he'd see that MO is going from initial development to release in 2 years, which means it's a rush job for MMO standards. If the OP had read the features more carefully he'd see that MO will have half the features that Darkfall currently has in game. Care to back that up? Obviously you can not, it's understandable you are scared for DF's fate. Do us a favor and stick with DF though. It's funny how people jump on the fanboy train for the latest vaporware. When Darkfall was first announced people thought it would be the greatest game ever. Get real people. I thought only DF trolls had the rights to the hackneyed "vaporware" idiocy. That's what you DF boys have been crying about for several years isn't it? They sure are committed to the lie over at SV huh? Producing a video, forums, screenshots and creating a fake publically traded company to fool everyone. Such commitment!
If the OP actually did some reading he'd see that MO is going from initial development to release in 2 years, which means it's a rush job for MMO standards. If the OP had read the features more carefully he'd see that MO will have half the features that Darkfall currently has in game. It's funny how people jump on the fanboy train for the latest vaporware. When Darkfall was first announced people thought it would be the greatest game ever. Get real people.
If they send out 3 communications 2 weeks after launch they will beat AV.
I read more about the flagging system and the thing is, if you attack a gray, you get gray.
In darkfall, if you attack a gray you get to gank, and you get to gank possibly someone innocent. I played the darkfall beta and there were fuckers jumping infront of me all the time trying to get me gray so they could prey upon me with NO penalty what so ever, I got fucking raided by hordes of newbs at the starting area (I was also a newb) and I got so pissed about this, but it seems the MO devs are actually going somewhere preventing this.
In the aforementioned flagging system if you're blue and attack a grey you go g rey only to that one guy.....blue to others. This is so the grey can defend himself but no one else can intervene without flagging with him.
Why the hell AV didnt implement a simple and fair system like this is beyond me.
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW -- -- "Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Not that it matters but: "Star Vault tog i början av mars 2008 det första steget marknadsföringsmässigt, då en inledande bild för Mortal Online (tidigare benämnt NOW) publicerades på bolagets hemsida."
My translation: "Star vault took in the beginning of march 2008 the first steps in their marketing, when the first image of Mortal online (earlier called NOW) was published on the companies web page."
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
I read more about the flagging system and the thing is, if you attack a gray, you get gray.
In darkfall, if you attack a gray you get to gank, and you get to gank possibly someone innocent. I played the darkfall beta and there were fuckers jumping infront of me all the time trying to get me gray so they could prey upon me with NO penalty what so ever, I got fucking raided by hordes of newbs at the starting area (I was also a newb) and I got so pissed about this, but it seems the MO devs are actually going somewhere preventing this.
In the aforementioned flagging system if you're blue and attack a grey you go g rey only to that one guy.....blue to others. This is so the grey can defend himself but no one else can intervene without flagging with him.
Why the hell AV didnt implement a simple and fair system like this is beyond me.
Lineage 2 did the same thing. They made it so that if you hit someone that was flagged for PvP "grey (UO, DF) / purple (L2)", you flagged open for PvP to everyone. Its a cheap lazy PvP switch and opens up all kinda exploitation with baiting. You bait someone into flagging back on you and then have your friends come out around the corner and gank. Also allows for bullying with one person in a big group starting a fight with a solo player with the solo player not able to retaliate because they will get jumped with no reprocussions.
Once agian...UO had it right. There is a "global" flag and a "local" flag. If you attack someone who is "grey" you flag locally with the "grey" person you attacked and remain innocent globally (keeps others from jumping in). If you attack an innocent player, you flag "globally" and everyone can attack you.
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
But a lot comes down on how large the studio is, actually. If we are talking small to medium here I would have some doubts if the game would launch within half a year or so. Doubts about it being complete and offer a rich experience in content. I hope they are able to take all the time that they need to complete it and won't be forced to rush it by their investors and add yet another to the growing list of 'mmo's which didn't do so well as they have could have'.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
But a lot comes down on how large the studio is, actually. If we are talking small to medium here I would have some doubts if the game would launch within half a year or so. Doubts about it being complete and offer a rich experience in content. I hope they are able to take all the time that they need to complete it and won't be forced to rush it by their investors and add yet another to the growing list of 'mmo's which didn't do so well as they have could have'.
Absolutely true, I was simply stating a possibility which in no way is completely factual.
Im not really sure what we are debating here.... SV have shown theit internal timeline and it shows how devolepment goes. Game conscept 2005-2007. Alpha started at the end of 2007. The game was announced in march 2088 with released summer 2009. (probably will be delayed IMO)
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
FYI...according to Star Vault's own documentation, the initial concept was completed around the summer of 2007, so your assumptions are a little off.
No one can say that MO will be better than Darkfall, since none of us have played MO yet.
Conceptually, it sounds like a great game. However, a concept is just an idea until it is implemented. What will be interesting to see is how well Starvault can implement their ideas into their game.
FYI...according to Star Vault's own documentation, the initial concept was completed around the summer of 2007, so your assumptions are a little off.
Im sure you have a link to the source? All I found was that development with the engine began in 2007, according to their company site, infact their company site listed they had been in development for 2 years BEFORE 2007.
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
Or an unlimited supply of Ouzo, shining beaches with scantily clad tourists and 30 degrees celsius for a good deal of the year
versus
A limited supply of expensive alcohol, an everlasting winter, four hours of daylight and a horny moose under your window, for that matter.
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
Funny how you're going to come over to MO and trash it with the same arguments you denounced when they were used during Darkfalls' development by so-called "haters". Are you going to start calling it vaporware out of pitiful spite, also?
Shouldn't you be playing Darkfall, right now? Or did Lord Tasos fail to reward one of his most loyal defenders with an account?
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
I just want to call this guy out in front of everyone. Signus is a trolling mod from Forumfall who has infected these forums (and others) with his trolling.
Signus is a mod on Forumfall who routinely flames dissent on forumfall (likely gets them banned) then comes here and denies being a mod there, despite the same name and it being proven many times.
Signus, your are scared for DF's fate, understandable, in a sycophant way.
Look at the lies he posted here. Go back to forumfall and tell your masters that you failed. They should understand that word, no?
Comments
If the OP actually did some reading he'd see that MO is going from initial development to release in 2 years, which means it's a rush job for MMO standards. If the OP had read the features more carefully he'd see that MO will have half the features that Darkfall currently has in game.
It's funny how people jump on the fanboy train for the latest vaporware. When Darkfall was first announced people thought it would be the greatest game ever. Get real people.
Seems very similar to Lineage 2's karma system.
The difference in L2 is that if you go "red/chaotic" in L2 and already have 5 or more PK's (it keeps track), and someone kills you, you "pop like a pinata" as they say, dropping potentially multiple items - including potentially expensive gear. It does give people pause before they decide to go screwing with people... especially if they don't know whether they can beat you or not.
It's true, though, that people can find work-arounds with any penalty/flagging system. I think what has had a stronger affect on people's behavior in L2 isn't so much the karma system, but the potential repercussions of screwing with the wrong person/people - say, un-tagged alts of a very powerful clan or ally. You could end up with a very nasty war on your hands, and some clans simply aren't prepared to deal with that.
In any case, it's a good system overall... but I think MO should have some kind of extra disincentive to abusing "going red" - such as loss of gear if killed as in L2. People think nothing of going red - some wear it as a badge, in fact, if there's no "physical" penalties. Add the risk of losing potentially valuable items and it makes it a bit more meaningful.
I think thats fair...but you have to have a buffer on the allowable PKs.
When L2 first came out, you went chaotic/red on your first PK AND risked losing a piece of armor or weapon you spent the last 3-4 months working for. The problem with this was that players were able to avoid the PvP flagging system and grief you. There isn't anything you can do about the situation if the other person doesn't flag back. Your then faced with a situation where you either give this kid a dirt nap and risk loosing your stuff or take the griefing.....either way the griefer wins.
Hell... when L2 first came out, you could lose gear/items if a mob killed you. Players could simply mob train you and avoid risking going red at all; and it was considered a valid PvP tactic. GMs would not intervene in PvP at all. L2 was a pretty harsh game back then.
They later changed it to where you can't drop any items until after 5 PKs. This allows players to evoke player justice when people grief or act like an a-hole while avoiding the PvP system.
Yeah, but only if the person going red is dumb enough to do so without having done a few sin-eater quests to get under 5. Frankly, if someone has 5+ PKs, goes out in their full gear, goes red, gets dropped and loses stuff... they deserve it. I mean, L2 makes it *very* feasible to be an "avid ganker" without ever losing gear if you wanted to. If you're not an ass-hat who takes pride in being "perma-red", you pretty much never have to worry about losing gear in L2 anymore... hacks or scams notwithstanding.
This one guy on Gustin did that. He'd go around attacking people he didn't like, for whatever reason. Then he'd go find some hiding spot and work off his PKs by doing sin-eaters. I believe he did at least one sin-eater every day. But it was fine with him.. all he played for was PvP. Sin-eaters were "the price of admission", so to speak.
You also have to create a system that allows you to work those PK counts off over time so that you can police situations like that over the life of the game. It has to be teadious and/or hard to keep people from abusing it (kind of like DF). Ultima forced you to spend 24 hours of game time to burn off one count. Lineage 2 forced you to sacrafice the experience you got for killing monsters to level a pet up (sin eater)....which could take hours of mind numbing monster bashing. Both are a pain in the ass and serve as a way to keep player justice evergreen and PKs from abusing the system.
I dunno.. again, I knew of people who had sin-eaters down to a science. It was part of their routine. If you're that dedicated to racking up that many PKs, then I guess you kinda get used to it. That said, L2's penalties are far less harsh than they used to be.
In any case, I do think that while the ability to attack anyone, anytime, anywhere is fine... there definitely should be some kind of repercussions to those who do it; something to make them really pick their fights more carefully, rather than just going gonzo on everything that moves.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If they send out 3 communications 2 weeks after launch they will beat AV.
In the aforementioned flagging system if you're blue and attack a grey you go g rey only to that one guy.....blue to others. This is so the grey can defend himself but no one else can intervene without flagging with him.
Why the hell AV didnt implement a simple and fair system like this is beyond me.
How can a game that was announced less than a year ago ever be considered Vaporware? Its pretty clear that the DF "fans" still dont understand the meaning of the word...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
-----------------------
Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Not that it matters but: "Star Vault tog i början av mars 2008 det första steget marknadsföringsmässigt, då en inledande bild för Mortal Online (tidigare benämnt NOW) publicerades på bolagets hemsida."
My translation: "Star vault took in the beginning of march 2008 the first steps in their marketing, when the first image of Mortal online (earlier called NOW) was published on the companies web page."
http://www.starvault.se/SV%20BK08%20090226.pdf
So its pretty much 1 year ago they announced Mortal Online, and I have also been following this game since then. I hope it turns out well
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
In the aforementioned flagging system if you're blue and attack a grey you go g rey only to that one guy.....blue to others. This is so the grey can defend himself but no one else can intervene without flagging with him.
Why the hell AV didnt implement a simple and fair system like this is beyond me.
Lineage 2 did the same thing. They made it so that if you hit someone that was flagged for PvP "grey (UO, DF) / purple (L2)", you flagged open for PvP to everyone. Its a cheap lazy PvP switch and opens up all kinda exploitation with baiting. You bait someone into flagging back on you and then have your friends come out around the corner and gank. Also allows for bullying with one person in a big group starting a fight with a solo player with the solo player not able to retaliate because they will get jumped with no reprocussions.
Once agian...UO had it right. There is a "global" flag and a "local" flag. If you attack someone who is "grey" you flag locally with the "grey" person you attacked and remain innocent globally (keeps others from jumping in). If you attack an innocent player, you flag "globally" and everyone can attack you.
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
But a lot comes down on how large the studio is, actually. If we are talking small to medium here I would have some doubts if the game would launch within half a year or so. Doubts about it being complete and offer a rich experience in content. I hope they are able to take all the time that they need to complete it and won't be forced to rush it by their investors and add yet another to the growing list of 'mmo's which didn't do so well as they have could have'.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
But a lot comes down on how large the studio is, actually. If we are talking small to medium here I would have some doubts if the game would launch within half a year or so. Doubts about it being complete and offer a rich experience in content. I hope they are able to take all the time that they need to complete it and won't be forced to rush it by their investors and add yet another to the growing list of 'mmo's which didn't do so well as they have could have'.
Absolutely true, I was simply stating a possibility which in no way is completely factual.
Actually, AV wiped the floor with darkfall.
MO will just help to erase the memory of DF. Along with Hanna Montanna online, or tic tac toe would.
Im not really sure what we are debating here.... SV have shown theit internal timeline and it shows how devolepment goes. Game conscept 2005-2007. Alpha started at the end of 2007. The game was announced in march 2088 with released summer 2009. (probably will be delayed IMO)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
To be fair, it was annouced a couple of years ago, possibly a few months before that even. It only became part of mmorpg.com less than a year ago. Some of us have been following it for a bit longer :P I know I heard about it just months after LotRO's release.
Star Vault obtained the Unreal license on May 2007. They still have plans to release the game this year and since they are a public company, there is pressure to release it on time. That's perhaps half the time that went into developing LOTRO, and Turbine is a much larger company.
Ok allow me to rebut if I may on your original topic that they have "only been in development for 2 years".
There is quite a long cycle of time where a developer may not have aquired an engine but they can still be doing several things while they wait for the license. They aquired the license in 2007, but as most people who are actually in the industry will tell you that you dont just walk up and go "Oh hey guyz we want engine please can haz? Ok yay us we go makez teh gamez!", normally there is quite a bit of time after going into talks where the two companies will discuss the fees and services that the engine developer will provide and require. A major part of that is that the engines development company will need to modify and alter the engine to suite the needs of the customer, all of this is done BEFORE the company ever purchases the license and this proces can take upward of a year.
So lets add that on, lets make up some math just for the sake of arguement. So in 2006 SV aproaches Epic for an engine, and it takes Epic (Who produce their own games as well so they dont just maintain engine development) about a year to complete the full modifications plus train SV employees on the use of the engine. Do you think SV has been sitting on its ass that whole year? probably not. They know the engine they are using therefore while waiting on it they can begin making character models and terrain heightmaps long before they even have the engine. This allows them to cut time on production.
But lets go even FURTHER back, most of the concept / design of the game can be done long before even deciding on an engine. All of that is done on paper so to say, as in its nothing but word files and spreadsheets with concept art and coffee stains. So lets say they spent a year doing design and getting people to work on the game, Now we are in 2005.
Lets add a year as well for the formation of the company and copyright aplications as well as initial formation of the delopment team and the finalization of the internal structure of the company and securing of market shares and investors. Now we are back to 2004.
5 years since company founding, 4 years since concept, 3 years since negotiations, 2 years since work began on the game with in-house engine... Seems like a decent time to go through development to me.
FYI...according to Star Vault's own documentation, the initial concept was completed around the summer of 2007, so your assumptions are a little off.
No one can say that MO will be better than Darkfall, since none of us have played MO yet.
Conceptually, it sounds like a great game. However, a concept is just an idea until it is implemented. What will be interesting to see is how well Starvault can implement their ideas into their game.
FYI...according to Star Vault's own documentation, the initial concept was completed around the summer of 2007, so your assumptions are a little off.
Im sure you have a link to the source? All I found was that development with the engine began in 2007, according to their company site, infact their company site listed they had been in development for 2 years BEFORE 2007.
http://www.starvault.se/about.php
At the bottom of the page you'll notice the copyright info: © Copyright STAR VAULT AB 2007. All Rights Reserved
Meaning the site was registered in 2007.
So theres my source, lets see yours?
This is the official development history/plan.
It says Game Concept -> Prototype - > Alpha -> Beta -> Gold
Marketing -> Release
The main difference between Mortal Online and Darkfall development wise will be if Starvault is actually spending all their time coding and testing, whereas Aventurine spent most of their time spewing dreams and lollipops through Tasos and calling bots beta testers.
Or an unlimited supply of Ouzo, shining beaches with scantily clad tourists and 30 degrees celsius for a good deal of the year
versus
A limited supply of expensive alcohol, an everlasting winter, four hours of daylight and a horny moose under your window, for that matter.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Plan vs actual are almost always different, and I doubt you'll see this game released this year.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
Funny how you're going to come over to MO and trash it with the same arguments you denounced when they were used during Darkfalls' development by so-called "haters". Are you going to start calling it vaporware out of pitiful spite, also?
Shouldn't you be playing Darkfall, right now? Or did Lord Tasos fail to reward one of his most loyal defenders with an account?
Yeah, that's why they can't even have a battle of 5 people without the engine being brought to its knees. Even in their promotional trailer people are lag warping all over the place, rag dolling a full 2 seconds after they are hit. If that's a TRAILER of the BEST they can do, I'd hate to see the real game.
I just want to call this guy out in front of everyone. Signus is a trolling mod from Forumfall who has infected these forums (and others) with his trolling.
Signus is a mod on Forumfall who routinely flames dissent on forumfall (likely gets them banned) then comes here and denies being a mod there, despite the same name and it being proven many times.
Signus, your are scared for DF's fate, understandable, in a sycophant way.
Look at the lies he posted here. Go back to forumfall and tell your masters that you failed. They should understand that word, no?