WoW atm is the peak of the genre (at least PvE-wise), becouse it has had a huge investment and plenty of time to be polished to its current status.
WoW had the same rough start of all MMORPGs, and growed strong since then. New games start the same way WoW did, but now they have to compete with that "quality product"...hardly a competition, new games dont have the same chances WoW did
the mainstream cant be arsed to play a new game unless it beats WoW NOW, not after 1 year of tweaking and improving...and that sadly is not gonna happen...
Nothing out there can compete with WoW right now because of one simple thing. Blizzard. The company made WoW the top game right now. The reason the company did it is because it did what no other company right now is willing to do. Not release a game until it passes their tests of readiness...which are pretty tough. The game offers what most people want. The ability to log in and accomplish something in a few hours if not minutes and leave feeling they accomplished something. I have played just about every released game and no other game accomplishes this as well as WoW. Solo or in a group you can get or do aleast something to upgrade your character every hour. Another point is that the age of "MMO Grind" is dying. MMO's based on mindlessly grinding for hours on hours to accomplish something...and thus being called hard.....are dead. The masses will not pay for it. Soon companies will stop doing it. Instead they will have to advance what WoW does and make it so that accomplishments can be made every hour. Difficulty will have to be based of learning how to use skills and such in fights and not how long can you sit at your comp killing rats. The day of forced grouping to level is dead. WoW showed this will be the new trend. MMO does not mean forced grouping. Sorry to the "hardcores" that have no friends in real life, but this is a game. To bring in the maximum ammount of cash games will go solo and grouped play as WoW did. All the games that force grouping have only broke even and not really taken off. Why....real people do not have time to find groups all the time to play and thus will not pay for it. to the person that said Eve is bigger...I really beg to differ. If WoW opened up the oceans between the continents and made the ships actually sail for 2 hours between them then it would be the same size. 90% of Eve is empty and never seen. I like Eve it offers something different. But I am sick of people saying how hugh it is. It is a lot of empty space you never use because you warp to places and use jump gates. If you tried to fly between places you would see nothing and do nothing for hours. That is not space. Eve can only really count the areas around places that people actually go and use. With that it is still very large but again it is easy to make a hugh world with nothing in it. Does not take a lot of computer space to house nothing. All in all WoW in ecomomic terms have shown us that "Carebear" have beaten the "hardcores." So now the hardcore cry and whine about being second place. For all their big talk they did not have the numbers of the cash to compete with "Carebears". So to recap a game must be polished, solo/group oriented, provide accomplishment every session, and provide difficulty aimed at the average person that is not grind x rats. When a game does this well WoW will fall and be replaced. Till then we get nitch games that fail at some part of this formula and either fade off or the plug gets pulled. I do think that WoW fails at the last point now days, but it is the the best at the moment at coming close to all my points in my opinion.
While it is true that much of eve is empty, it is mucuh more complicated then that. You have to live in 0.0 and have activity with your corp and other corps to really understand it.
They actually have thousands of systems on a single server that are currently player-owned and actually lived in. People have homes, some Corps having dozens of systems owned, where they can build hteir own stations, war over them, and defend them.
Sure there is alot of space, but that "empty space" you are talking about - you are able to actually take it over and turn it in to something that will work for you. There are many things "hidden" in them if you try exploration as well. If you research the POS and moon mining systems of the game, try an exploring-character, etc, you will find it to be alot more complex and not as "empty" as it first seems.
WoW does not compare to these things - single server with 50k+ people on it at a single time, thousands of zones that people can actually take over and choose to make their own home by developing it, it does not have a universe that is actually player ran and player driven, and it does not have anything comparably "hidden" for explorers to actively discover and look for.
What you are talking about would be defined as "scope" not "size". The "scope" of Eve in character relational development is hugh...it is basically the game. The "size" of the Eve world is not that large. Resources are limited to a fraction of the gaming world and these are the only occupied places. The other places in the game are nothing more than empty ocean. Number of people online at anyone time does not effect the size when half of them are in Jita causing system lag .
WoW atm is the peak of the genre (at least PvE-wise), becouse it has had a huge investment and plenty of time to be polished to its current status.
WoW had the same rough start of all MMORPGs, and growed strong since then. New games start the same way WoW did, but now they have to compete with that "quality product"...hardly a competition, new games dont have the same chances WoW did
the mainstream cant be arsed to play a new game unless it beats WoW NOW, not after 1 year of tweaking and improving...and that sadly is not gonna happen...
Wow's rough start was not from progamming errors so much as they were not ready for the numbers of people trying to access the game all at once. When you got in the game there were not real game ending errors that often as in other games these days. Many games these days at lauch have bugs that end gameplay.
Nothing out there can compete with WoW right now because of one simple thing. Blizzard. The company made WoW the top game right now. The reason the company did it is because it did what no other company right now is willing to do. Not release a game until it passes their tests of readiness...which are pretty tough. The game offers what most people want. The ability to log in and accomplish something in a few hours if not minutes and leave feeling they accomplished something. I have played just about every released game and no other game accomplishes this as well as WoW. Solo or in a group you can get or do aleast something to upgrade your character every hour. Another point is that the age of "MMO Grind" is dying. MMO's based on mindlessly grinding for hours on hours to accomplish something...and thus being called hard.....are dead. The masses will not pay for it. Soon companies will stop doing it. Instead they will have to advance what WoW does and make it so that accomplishments can be made every hour. Difficulty will have to be based of learning how to use skills and such in fights and not how long can you sit at your comp killing rats. The day of forced grouping to level is dead. WoW showed this will be the new trend. MMO does not mean forced grouping. Sorry to the "hardcores" that have no friends in real life, but this is a game. To bring in the maximum ammount of cash games will go solo and grouped play as WoW did. All the games that force grouping have only broke even and not really taken off. Why....real people do not have time to find groups all the time to play and thus will not pay for it. to the person that said Eve is bigger...I really beg to differ. If WoW opened up the oceans between the continents and made the ships actually sail for 2 hours between them then it would be the same size. 90% of Eve is empty and never seen. I like Eve it offers something different. But I am sick of people saying how hugh it is. It is a lot of empty space you never use because you warp to places and use jump gates. If you tried to fly between places you would see nothing and do nothing for hours. That is not space. Eve can only really count the areas around places that people actually go and use. With that it is still very large but again it is easy to make a hugh world with nothing in it. Does not take a lot of computer space to house nothing. All in all WoW in ecomomic terms have shown us that "Carebear" have beaten the "hardcores." So now the hardcore cry and whine about being second place. For all their big talk they did not have the numbers of the cash to compete with "Carebears". So to recap a game must be polished, solo/group oriented, provide accomplishment every session, and provide difficulty aimed at the average person that is not grind x rats. When a game does this well WoW will fall and be replaced. Till then we get nitch games that fail at some part of this formula and either fade off or the plug gets pulled. I do think that WoW fails at the last point now days, but it is the the best at the moment at coming close to all my points in my opinion.
While it is true that much of eve is empty, it is mucuh more complicated then that. You have to live in 0.0 and have activity with your corp and other corps to really understand it.
They actually have thousands of systems on a single server that are currently player-owned and actually lived in. People have homes, some Corps having dozens of systems owned, where they can build hteir own stations, war over them, and defend them.
Sure there is alot of space, but that "empty space" you are talking about - you are able to actually take it over and turn it in to something that will work for you. There are many things "hidden" in them if you try exploration as well. If you research the POS and moon mining systems of the game, try an exploring-character, etc, you will find it to be alot more complex and not as "empty" as it first seems.
WoW does not compare to these things - single server with 50k+ people on it at a single time, thousands of zones that people can actually take over and choose to make their own home by developing it, it does not have a universe that is actually player ran and player driven, and it does not have anything comparably "hidden" for explorers to actively discover and look for.
What you are talking about would be defined as "scope" not "size". The "scope" of Eve in character relational development is hugh...it is basically the game. The "size" of the Eve world is not that large. Resources are limited to a fraction of the gaming world and these are the only occupied places. The other places in the game are nothing more than empty ocean. Number of people online at anyone time does not effect the size when half of them are in Jita causing system lag .
I also said in an earlier post, it depends on what is meant by Size =p
My last post was just clarifying the "empty"
What you describe is how Empire is anyway - 0.0 is a very different story, and is surprisingly (for people who have never lived there) populated. Try living in 0.0 with a decently sized corp for a few months, and try exploration, if you want to see what the game is really about, and youll likely see things are not as much "empty ocean" as you thought =D
The OP must be kidding with this thread saying or doing as if WoW is the best mmo ever or out there.
No bugs? I was there as one of their testers and the game was filled with bugs partially even after the release.
Spreading lies to make WoW more important than it actually is while it lost players and players over the years is not quite good.
The game mainly lives through promotion that had taken place in a huge scale compared to any other
developer only because they had the money to do so. Innovative? You must be kidding me?
What was/is innovative in WoW? That they ripped everything they saw in other mmos, placed them in one package and sold them as their own work after the original blizzards employs left the company so they can finally be original since Blizzard never was?
I'm not here to flame but I won't close my eyes to the truth either and go like " wow is the best of the best and no one can compare".
I have alpha/beta and play tested almost every mmo game you can find on mmorpg.com, onrpg or any other site so far which means 100+ additionaly to offline games and mods through the years and I can tell you that there are much better mmos out there then wow will ever be.
The major difference is and always was that blizzard had the money and the huge promotion as also all the warcraft fans through the years that tuned in after the release (many left after they show how the screwed the story and other things from the original story only because vivendi which hides behind the blizzard name for a few years now obviously had no clue of) additionaly to many mmo newbies that started there as their first mmo not knowing anything else when it comes to mmos at all.
On a sidenote, you can't go out there comparing different types of mmos only because they are both mmo games cause there are major difference between many depending if they are action based, sci fi space (like eve as example), fantasy, racing, jump n run, beat em up and so on....
I do live in 0.0. I have 4 Eve accounts and am part of a thriving corp. I explore, mine, industry, pvp/missions...pretty much speciallized my 4 accounts. I still find Eve to be 80% empty space 20% used space. Even in travel between 0.0 and hi sec space I run through many many systems with no one in them at peak times because there is nothing in those systems that is useful to the game. Eve is like a giant warehouse with a desk in the center. That Desk has a lot of crap on it that people fight over and that suits the game, but the rest of the area in the warehouse is pretty much unused and can hardly be counted when compared to other games use of space.
Wow's rough start was not from progamming errors so much as they were not ready for the numbers of people trying to access the game all at once. When you got in the game there were not real game ending errors that often as in other games these days. Many games these days at lauch have bugs that end gameplay.
I agree WOW launch problems were primarily network congestion
but I played both AOC and WAR at launch (games that launched last year)
neither had gamebreaking bugs that "ended gameplay" for me
but lacked end content for me, and thus did not get my sub
Blizzard have excellent advertising schemes as well, the Mr T Night Elf Mohawk, a class that doesn't exist but so should, caught viewers attentions, and Ozzy sold Wrath to the masses. But then, as others here have stated, Blizz can afford to do stuff like that whereas other less fortunate companies can just about afford word of mouth and web banners. :S
In the world of competition, reputation and mass advertising rule together.
The OP must be kidding with this thread saying or doing as if WoW is the best mmo ever or out there. No bugs? I was there as one of their testers and the game was filled with bugs partially even after the release. Spreading lies to make WoW more important than it actually is while it lost players and players over the years is not quite good. The game mainly lives through promotion that had taken place in a huge scale compared to any other developer only because they had the money to do so. Innovative? You must be kidding me? What was/is innovative in WoW? That they ripped everything they saw in other mmos, placed them in one package and sold them as their own work after the original blizzards employs left the company so they can finally be original since Blizzard never was? I'm not here to flame but I won't close my eyes to the truth either and go like " wow is the best of the best and no one can compare". I have alpha/beta and play tested almost every mmo game you can find on mmorpg.com, onrpg or any other site so far which means 100+ additionaly to offline games and mods through the years and I can tell you that there are much better mmos out there then wow will ever be. The major difference is and always was that blizzard had the money and the huge promotion as also all the warcraft fans through the years that tuned in after the release (many left after they show how the screwed the story and other things from the original story only because vivendi which hides behind the blizzard name for a few years now obviously had no clue of) additionaly to many mmo newbies that started there as their first mmo not knowing anything else when it comes to mmos at all. On a sidenote, you can't go out there comparing different types of mmos only because they are both mmo games cause there are major difference between many depending if they are action based, sci fi space (like eve as example), fantasy, racing, jump n run, beat em up and so on.... Just my two coins.
It would probably be useful before you responded to read what the OP said. He did not say it was the best game. He was talking solely about why no game economically competes with WoW. No game that has come out has competed with WoW for economic domiance. So in that respect WoW is the greatest game out there. So I hand you back your two coins.
Graphics: Not great, but their simplicity means almost anyone's computer can run them attracting a larger playerbase (my computer practically blew up trying to run AoC even with recommended requirements)
Gameplay: (Originally) Nine classes with a rock-paper-scissors formula with good structure and progression
Lore: Had a solid backbone that came from the franchise attracting fans of the strategy game as well as traditional MMO gamers,
PvP: You could get involved very early on, although the fact that Blizzard allow twinks kind of ruins it for newbs.
PvE: As far as I'm concerned, raiding is shit, but Blizzard have left no conclusion means you simply repeat what you've done. This isn't an original idea, but it works.
I haven't gone into great depth, but the sheer simplicity of WoW has made it a commercial success, you might disagree on whether these things are good or bad, personally I think ez-mode MMOs are crap, but then I'm not everyone and Blizzard's success speaks for itself.
Other companies see this and think "well lets use an already existing, successful model and replicate the success". Lack of ingenuity is to blame, but when there is not a lot left to invent, it makes development difficult.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Personally I feel Wow is just a freak of nature after playing a ton of MMOs I dont see how a game of WoWs quality (thats basically inline with the others) has that many subs.
Lets take wow out of the picture for a second Whats the average Sub base in all other MMos? 100k-300k?
personally those are the numbers I care about, If a new game releases and has a steady 100-300k sub base its great and can live on for years. that's all I need and that's all you guys should need as well.
To the OP no game will ever have a world wide sub number as big as wow ever again, not even Blizzards next MMO.
Hell I'll go on record as saying Even Bioware's monster Offering TOR wont get much larger than a million subs worldwide at its peak.
Blizzard have excellent advertising schemes as well, the Mr T Night Elf Mohawk, a class that doesn't exist but so should, caught viewers attentions, and Ozzy sold Wrath to the masses. But then, as others here have stated, Blizz can afford to do stuff like that whereas other less fortunate companies can just about afford word of mouth and web banners. :S In the world of competition, reputation and mass advertising rule together.
And yet, WoW was already popular when they started running the Mr T and Ozzy commercials. Advertising wasn't what made WoW big.
WoW is a great game for the avrange gamer it has lots to offer and its really well known (mainstream) if you look around everyone and their mother knows or has at least heard of WoW And this right here is part of the probleem.
Because of WoW`s fame and succes developers / investors dont have the balls to try something new and unique they all look up to WoW and want to copy its succes which always fails i mean why play the half assed clone when you can have the original for the same / less? (price wise)
Unfortunately for us players the developers / investors just dont seem to understand this and keep trying to make WoW 0.2.
Its pretty simple imo.. WoW is a great game for the avrange gamer it has lots to offer and its really well known (mainstream) if you look around everyone and their mother knows or has at least heard of WoW And this right here is part of the probleem.
Because of WoW`s fame and succes developers / investors dont have the balls to try something new and unique they all look up to WoW and want to copy its succes which always fails i mean why play the half assed clone when you can have the original for the same / less? (price wise)
Unfortunately for us players the developers / investors just dont seem to understand this and keep trying to make WoW 0.2.
Exactly right. Personally, I try most new MMO's but in the end go back to WoW anyway. Because most new MMO's are "half assed WoW clones". This will never work and i'm surprised the big companies don't recognize it.
I applaud companies that at least try to be different, like Aventurine and DF for instance. Even though sandbox MMOs is not the thing for me.
In answer to the OP: "Why has no game managed to compete with WOW as of yet". First we have to consider what WOW has brought to the table: 1. Accessibility: the games low system requirements allowed EVERYONE with a computer to play the game. 2. Existing Battlenet fanbase; 3. Catering to all of the three gamer types: Casual, CORE and Hardcore. WOW stayed away from the iffy "niche" genre. 4. Added PVP that lacked punch but still was solid enough to draw in the pvp oriented gamer; 5. Excellent quality development and gameplay. Thus far NO other game has managed to bring all of the above 5 points into a new game. When one does, WOW will finally have a competitor.
Ive heard people say that LOTR could have had millions, but seriously, how many of those LOTR fans play computer games ?
Battlenet had *millions* of fans
Starcraft alone sold 11 million copies -- and theres also Diablo and Warcraft
Lotro didn't get bigger than it is, because it really doesn't offer any reason to leave wow and play it. It is a fine game with many nice features, but it plays almost identical to wow, but with far smaller feature set. If someone is bored with wow, they are going to get bored with lotro in a very short time.
The sims has more fans than any other game on the market, yet that game died a horrible death, so it has to be more than just existing fanbase. There are plenty of games that had pre existing fanbases to draw from and they failed to capture those, regardless of how big that base was in comparison to blizzards. EQ2 for example: it has access to the most popular mmo franchise to date, yet it hovers around 20-40% of what the original did.
Getting people to try a game is easy. Getting people to resubscribe and invite their friends to join is another situation that people gloss over far to often.
Its simple marketing. In Germany eg. the only MMO ever had TV ads was wow. The simple man doesnt read MMO sites to inform himself. The simple man only knows wow. This is the main point, marketing makes the difference.
Wow already had millions of subscribers before it had an advertising campaign that was different than most other mmos. Word of mouth advertising was far bigger than anything blizzard is trying.
Simply advertising a game will only get people to TRY it. It will not get people to continue to play it, let alone word of mouth advertise it.
The notion that marketing is the key to massive amounts of people is so rediculous on so many levels. For example: swg was perhaps the first mmo with television commercials and a massive media blitz.... see how that game is doing.
If marketing was the key to massive success then why are there not more bigger games? It isn't like other companies are incapable of running an advertising campaign.
Accessability. You could probably play the game on medium detail on an Amiga. It's got partnerships with so many big box retailers. Hell, when I was in Virginia once on business, I saw WotLK for sale at a 7-11.
Ease of use. You might stand in awe of all those big time raid guilds who get all the world firsts, but let's face it. This is a game comprised of running around in a pre-decided pattern, pressing the 1-8 keys over and over again.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
Developers simply need to develop a game that is worthy of a large playerbase. It has nothing to do with the playerbase being patient as the company shouldn't release a buggy mess. Unfortunately no game is trying to be unique, they are all trying to be like WoW. You can't out WoW WoW itself.
Wow out EQ EQ.Which was currently the biggest game at time,You don't need to be different you need to be better and no game is out right better than Wow they keep change unnessary stuff just to be like only slight different from wow.They don't improve they just take a side step.Wow took all the bad stuff about EQ and improve on it.To beat wow you are going take all stuff people hate in wow and fix them.
Being unique is not goal being better is.AoC unique,Tcos unique,TR was unique,Darkfall is unique.People don't want unique that why in everygame they play ask for the classes to be just like the one in the former game the played.The game more than like the game competes with wow will more than like be very close to what you get in wow.
Developers simply need to develop a game that is worthy of a large playerbase. It has nothing to do with the playerbase being patient as the company shouldn't release a buggy mess. Unfortunately no game is trying to be unique, they are all trying to be like WoW. You can't out WoW WoW itself.
QFT,
However... an MMO used to be considered successful at breaking 100k subs. It was a significant milestone, 150k subs was a big deal. Now we have games we consider failures that have 400k subs and we, as gamers, and the media covering these games, are tainted by WoW's unprecedented success. You do not have to be the top game to have a successful MMO, but you DO have to be prepared NOT to be the top game and plan accordingly so that the inevitable 50% loss in initial subs can be handled with minimal effect.
Well maybe you should go back and read again since what I saw was additionaly "wow here and wow there" talking additionaly like how nobody could compete in features and other stuff.
As unfortunately only a few aknowledged the truth while others still keep saying "it wasn't the commercials or advertisements" I can only say that prior to its release Blizzard spend alone in the first two weeks 200000$ on promotion.
After its release they bought tons of space on many magazines around the world (like here in germany) for advertisement and they even made some have additional only wow based content.
So everyone that got any of these gaming magazines in their hands had like in every second page a advertisement of wow.
You think this didn't work? Well it did and you can see it on the numbers we are all talking about here.
However, after they lost many subscribers due to their in game bugs, waiting lines in between, crappy servers that never worked well in raids(maybe they should had put some of their money on hardware instead of advertisement?) they kept up with the advertisement.
You tell me if you get almost daily (not too many anymore but in the past and still in between), notification emails that a new update alert has been posted on this site without being blizzards.
Wanna talk about their announced "we have THAT many millions subscribers"?
Easy statistic basics: You count ALL the Subscribers you EVER had no matter if they are still active or have left the game like for ages.
Wanna talk about their announced "we have THAT many millions subscribers"? Easy statistic basics: You count ALL the Subscribers you EVER had no matter if they are still active or have left the game like for ages.
Blizzard spells out - what they do not count - in their PR announcements
Blizzard have excellent advertising schemes as well, the Mr T Night Elf Mohawk, a class that doesn't exist but so should, caught viewers attentions, and Ozzy sold Wrath to the masses. But then, as others here have stated, Blizz can afford to do stuff like that whereas other less fortunate companies can just about afford word of mouth and web banners. :S In the world of competition, reputation and mass advertising rule together.
And yet, WoW was already popular when they started running the Mr T and Ozzy commercials. Advertising wasn't what made WoW big.
Agreed, those gimmicky, celebrity filled commercials for WOW came out years later AFTER WOW was a huge success.
I see alot of people also saying that money made WOW a success. This I don't beleive. All the money in the world doesnt make a game successful, innovation and mass appeal does. Now if you say Blizzard took all that money and bought the best developers in the industry and thus became a success I would partly agree, but other games that have failed horribly also had the best developers. Look at Tabula Rasa! Year in the making and led up by an icon in the industry, Garriott. Also had loads of capital poured into it. It ended up as an abyssmal failure. Why? Simple it didnt have enough innovation or appeal to more people. Again, the WOW formula for success:
Accessability
Fanbase
Mass appeal to all the gamer types (Casual, CORE & Hardcore)
PVP for the PVP crowd
Innovation
Every MMO that has failed recently (or at least lost tons of subs) has been missing one or more of the elements above. They are either:
graphically challenged, with only the best machines able to run them properly;
too niche;
too unknown;
Too casual OR too Hardcore not allowing the various gamer types to engage in the game simutaneuosly.
Well you can be sure that any good PR department and by that I don't mean only Blizzards but any company will tell you things about "unicorns and rainbows" so take such announcements always with a good grain of salt portion.
Anyway.... for me was, still is and if they don't mess up in the future always be the best developer on MMOs and one of the first ones ever NCsoft.
I can't wait for AION and Soul&Blade to go into the beta status or be released!
Even Gems like City of Heroes/Villains, Guild Wars and many other games they brought were much better than WoW will ever be. Not to mention what Blizzard ripped from games like that and sold them as "new ideas" which wasn't the case.
Heck even free mmos are out there that are more fun than wow.
I remember the days where the first C&C came out from a VERY small company that couldn't afford large advertisement and stuff and then all of sudden Warcraft that "surprisingly" were using the exact same system popped out of nothing with the Blizzard name on it, lots of advertisement and money to push things to success which we all know took place.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Warcraft series (except wow of course) till the frozen throne and I still have them.
Fact is though that money rules the world in many occassions (sad but unfortunately true) and blizzard is the best example on this.
Wanna talk about their announced "we have THAT many millions subscribers"? Easy statistic basics: You count ALL the Subscribers you EVER had no matter if they are still active or have left the game like for ages.
Blizzard spells out - what they do not count - in their PR announcements
excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
Yes, excludes free promotional subscriptions, but does not exclude initial free month players.
30 days is a long time. Do you know how many people quit or sign up for an MMO in 30 days?
They take one day, then bombard the TV and Internet with banners, Ozzy commercials, whatever other crap they lure people in with. On day 29, they compile all those numbers, 95% of which have not played since the day after seeing the commercials, combine that number with all the gold farmers, multi-boxers and angry teenagers' subscriptions... and you end up having a pretty impressive, albeit completely unrealistic, number.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
Comments
half the truth
WoW atm is the peak of the genre (at least PvE-wise), becouse it has had a huge investment and plenty of time to be polished to its current status.
WoW had the same rough start of all MMORPGs, and growed strong since then. New games start the same way WoW did, but now they have to compete with that "quality product"...hardly a competition, new games dont have the same chances WoW did
the mainstream cant be arsed to play a new game unless it beats WoW NOW, not after 1 year of tweaking and improving...and that sadly is not gonna happen...
While it is true that much of eve is empty, it is mucuh more complicated then that. You have to live in 0.0 and have activity with your corp and other corps to really understand it.
They actually have thousands of systems on a single server that are currently player-owned and actually lived in. People have homes, some Corps having dozens of systems owned, where they can build hteir own stations, war over them, and defend them.
Sure there is alot of space, but that "empty space" you are talking about - you are able to actually take it over and turn it in to something that will work for you. There are many things "hidden" in them if you try exploration as well. If you research the POS and moon mining systems of the game, try an exploring-character, etc, you will find it to be alot more complex and not as "empty" as it first seems.
WoW does not compare to these things - single server with 50k+ people on it at a single time, thousands of zones that people can actually take over and choose to make their own home by developing it, it does not have a universe that is actually player ran and player driven, and it does not have anything comparably "hidden" for explorers to actively discover and look for.
What you are talking about would be defined as "scope" not "size". The "scope" of Eve in character relational development is hugh...it is basically the game. The "size" of the Eve world is not that large. Resources are limited to a fraction of the gaming world and these are the only occupied places. The other places in the game are nothing more than empty ocean. Number of people online at anyone time does not effect the size when half of them are in Jita causing system lag
.
half the truth
WoW atm is the peak of the genre (at least PvE-wise), becouse it has had a huge investment and plenty of time to be polished to its current status.
WoW had the same rough start of all MMORPGs, and growed strong since then. New games start the same way WoW did, but now they have to compete with that "quality product"...hardly a competition, new games dont have the same chances WoW did
the mainstream cant be arsed to play a new game unless it beats WoW NOW, not after 1 year of tweaking and improving...and that sadly is not gonna happen...
Wow's rough start was not from progamming errors so much as they were not ready for the numbers of people trying to access the game all at once. When you got in the game there were not real game ending errors that often as in other games these days. Many games these days at lauch have bugs that end gameplay.
While it is true that much of eve is empty, it is mucuh more complicated then that. You have to live in 0.0 and have activity with your corp and other corps to really understand it.
They actually have thousands of systems on a single server that are currently player-owned and actually lived in. People have homes, some Corps having dozens of systems owned, where they can build hteir own stations, war over them, and defend them.
Sure there is alot of space, but that "empty space" you are talking about - you are able to actually take it over and turn it in to something that will work for you. There are many things "hidden" in them if you try exploration as well. If you research the POS and moon mining systems of the game, try an exploring-character, etc, you will find it to be alot more complex and not as "empty" as it first seems.
WoW does not compare to these things - single server with 50k+ people on it at a single time, thousands of zones that people can actually take over and choose to make their own home by developing it, it does not have a universe that is actually player ran and player driven, and it does not have anything comparably "hidden" for explorers to actively discover and look for.
What you are talking about would be defined as "scope" not "size". The "scope" of Eve in character relational development is hugh...it is basically the game. The "size" of the Eve world is not that large. Resources are limited to a fraction of the gaming world and these are the only occupied places. The other places in the game are nothing more than empty ocean. Number of people online at anyone time does not effect the size when half of them are in Jita causing system lag
.
I also said in an earlier post, it depends on what is meant by Size =p
My last post was just clarifying the "empty"
What you describe is how Empire is anyway - 0.0 is a very different story, and is surprisingly (for people who have never lived there) populated. Try living in 0.0 with a decently sized corp for a few months, and try exploration, if you want to see what the game is really about, and youll likely see things are not as much "empty ocean" as you thought =D
The OP must be kidding with this thread saying or doing as if WoW is the best mmo ever or out there.
No bugs? I was there as one of their testers and the game was filled with bugs partially even after the release.
Spreading lies to make WoW more important than it actually is while it lost players and players over the years is not quite good.
The game mainly lives through promotion that had taken place in a huge scale compared to any other
developer only because they had the money to do so. Innovative? You must be kidding me?
What was/is innovative in WoW? That they ripped everything they saw in other mmos, placed them in one package and sold them as their own work after the original blizzards employs left the company so they can finally be original since Blizzard never was?
I'm not here to flame but I won't close my eyes to the truth either and go like " wow is the best of the best and no one can compare".
I have alpha/beta and play tested almost every mmo game you can find on mmorpg.com, onrpg or any other site so far which means 100+ additionaly to offline games and mods through the years and I can tell you that there are much better mmos out there then wow will ever be.
The major difference is and always was that blizzard had the money and the huge promotion as also all the warcraft fans through the years that tuned in after the release (many left after they show how the screwed the story and other things from the original story only because vivendi which hides behind the blizzard name for a few years now obviously had no clue of) additionaly to many mmo newbies that started there as their first mmo not knowing anything else when it comes to mmos at all.
On a sidenote, you can't go out there comparing different types of mmos only because they are both mmo games cause there are major difference between many depending if they are action based, sci fi space (like eve as example), fantasy, racing, jump n run, beat em up and so on....
Just my two coins.
I do live in 0.0. I have 4 Eve accounts and am part of a thriving corp. I explore, mine, industry, pvp/missions...pretty much speciallized my 4 accounts. I still find Eve to be 80% empty space 20% used space. Even in travel between 0.0 and hi sec space I run through many many systems with no one in them at peak times because there is nothing in those systems that is useful to the game. Eve is like a giant warehouse with a desk in the center. That Desk has a lot of crap on it that people fight over and that suits the game, but the rest of the area in the warehouse is pretty much unused and can hardly be counted when compared to other games use of space.
I agree WOW launch problems were primarily network congestion
but I played both AOC and WAR at launch (games that launched last year)
neither had gamebreaking bugs that "ended gameplay" for me
but lacked end content for me, and thus did not get my sub
EQ2 fan sites
Blizzard have excellent advertising schemes as well, the Mr T Night Elf Mohawk, a class that doesn't exist but so should, caught viewers attentions, and Ozzy sold Wrath to the masses. But then, as others here have stated, Blizz can afford to do stuff like that whereas other less fortunate companies can just about afford word of mouth and web banners. :S
In the world of competition, reputation and mass advertising rule together.
It would probably be useful before you responded to read what the OP said. He did not say it was the best game. He was talking solely about why no game economically competes with WoW. No game that has come out has competed with WoW for economic domiance. So in that respect WoW is the greatest game out there. So I hand you back your two coins.
Here is the reason behind WoW's success:
They made it with a K.I.S.S.
Keep
It
Short
(&) Simple. (Interchangeable with Simple Stupid).
Lets break it down:
Graphics: Not great, but their simplicity means almost anyone's computer can run them attracting a larger playerbase (my computer practically blew up trying to run AoC even with recommended requirements)
Gameplay: (Originally) Nine classes with a rock-paper-scissors formula with good structure and progression
Lore: Had a solid backbone that came from the franchise attracting fans of the strategy game as well as traditional MMO gamers,
PvP: You could get involved very early on, although the fact that Blizzard allow twinks kind of ruins it for newbs.
PvE: As far as I'm concerned, raiding is shit, but Blizzard have left no conclusion means you simply repeat what you've done. This isn't an original idea, but it works.
I haven't gone into great depth, but the sheer simplicity of WoW has made it a commercial success, you might disagree on whether these things are good or bad, personally I think ez-mode MMOs are crap, but then I'm not everyone and Blizzard's success speaks for itself.
Other companies see this and think "well lets use an already existing, successful model and replicate the success". Lack of ingenuity is to blame, but when there is not a lot left to invent, it makes development difficult.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
Why must another game compete with WoW?
Personally I feel Wow is just a freak of nature after playing a ton of MMOs I dont see how a game of WoWs quality (thats basically inline with the others) has that many subs.
Lets take wow out of the picture for a second Whats the average Sub base in all other MMos? 100k-300k?
personally those are the numbers I care about, If a new game releases and has a steady 100-300k sub base its great and can live on for years. that's all I need and that's all you guys should need as well.
To the OP no game will ever have a world wide sub number as big as wow ever again, not even Blizzards next MMO.
Hell I'll go on record as saying Even Bioware's monster Offering TOR wont get much larger than a million subs worldwide at its peak.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
And yet, WoW was already popular when they started running the Mr T and Ozzy commercials. Advertising wasn't what made WoW big.
Its pretty simple imo..
WoW is a great game for the avrange gamer it has lots to offer and its really well known (mainstream) if you look around everyone and their mother knows or has at least heard of WoW And this right here is part of the probleem.
Because of WoW`s fame and succes developers / investors dont have the balls to try something new and unique they all look up to WoW and want to copy its succes which always fails i mean why play the half assed clone when you can have the original for the same / less? (price wise)
Unfortunately for us players the developers / investors just dont seem to understand this and keep trying to make WoW 0.2.
Exactly right. Personally, I try most new MMO's but in the end go back to WoW anyway. Because most new MMO's are "half assed WoW clones". This will never work and i'm surprised the big companies don't recognize it.
I applaud companies that at least try to be different, like Aventurine and DF for instance. Even though sandbox MMOs is not the thing for me.
#2 is huge
Ive heard people say that LOTR could have had millions, but seriously, how many of those LOTR fans play computer games ?
Battlenet had *millions* of fans
Starcraft alone sold 11 million copies -- and theres also Diablo and Warcraft
Lotro didn't get bigger than it is, because it really doesn't offer any reason to leave wow and play it. It is a fine game with many nice features, but it plays almost identical to wow, but with far smaller feature set. If someone is bored with wow, they are going to get bored with lotro in a very short time.
The sims has more fans than any other game on the market, yet that game died a horrible death, so it has to be more than just existing fanbase. There are plenty of games that had pre existing fanbases to draw from and they failed to capture those, regardless of how big that base was in comparison to blizzards. EQ2 for example: it has access to the most popular mmo franchise to date, yet it hovers around 20-40% of what the original did.
Getting people to try a game is easy. Getting people to resubscribe and invite their friends to join is another situation that people gloss over far to often.
Wow already had millions of subscribers before it had an advertising campaign that was different than most other mmos. Word of mouth advertising was far bigger than anything blizzard is trying.
Simply advertising a game will only get people to TRY it. It will not get people to continue to play it, let alone word of mouth advertise it.
The notion that marketing is the key to massive amounts of people is so rediculous on so many levels. For example: swg was perhaps the first mmo with television commercials and a massive media blitz.... see how that game is doing.
If marketing was the key to massive success then why are there not more bigger games? It isn't like other companies are incapable of running an advertising campaign.
I agree - altho I never tried Sims Online to experience how it fared as a mmo
also there are many gamers do not like paying a monthly fee -- regardless of the game
EQ2 fan sites
Accessability. You could probably play the game on medium detail on an Amiga. It's got partnerships with so many big box retailers. Hell, when I was in Virginia once on business, I saw WotLK for sale at a 7-11.
Ease of use. You might stand in awe of all those big time raid guilds who get all the world firsts, but let's face it. This is a game comprised of running around in a pre-decided pattern, pressing the 1-8 keys over and over again.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
Wow out EQ EQ.Which was currently the biggest game at time,You don't need to be different you need to be better and no game is out right better than Wow they keep change unnessary stuff just to be like only slight different from wow.They don't improve they just take a side step.Wow took all the bad stuff about EQ and improve on it.To beat wow you are going take all stuff people hate in wow and fix them.
Being unique is not goal being better is.AoC unique,Tcos unique,TR was unique,Darkfall is unique.People don't want unique that why in everygame they play ask for the classes to be just like the one in the former game the played.The game more than like the game competes with wow will more than like be very close to what you get in wow.
QFT,
However... an MMO used to be considered successful at breaking 100k subs. It was a significant milestone, 150k subs was a big deal. Now we have games we consider failures that have 400k subs and we, as gamers, and the media covering these games, are tainted by WoW's unprecedented success. You do not have to be the top game to have a successful MMO, but you DO have to be prepared NOT to be the top game and plan accordingly so that the inevitable 50% loss in initial subs can be handled with minimal effect.
-Sovereign
Well maybe you should go back and read again since what I saw was additionaly "wow here and wow there" talking additionaly like how nobody could compete in features and other stuff.
As unfortunately only a few aknowledged the truth while others still keep saying "it wasn't the commercials or advertisements" I can only say that prior to its release Blizzard spend alone in the first two weeks 200000$ on promotion.
After its release they bought tons of space on many magazines around the world (like here in germany) for advertisement and they even made some have additional only wow based content.
So everyone that got any of these gaming magazines in their hands had like in every second page a advertisement of wow.
You think this didn't work? Well it did and you can see it on the numbers we are all talking about here.
However, after they lost many subscribers due to their in game bugs, waiting lines in between, crappy servers that never worked well in raids(maybe they should had put some of their money on hardware instead of advertisement?) they kept up with the advertisement.
You tell me if you get almost daily (not too many anymore but in the past and still in between), notification emails that a new update alert has been posted on this site without being blizzards.
Wanna talk about their announced "we have THAT many millions subscribers"?
Easy statistic basics: You count ALL the Subscribers you EVER had no matter if they are still active or have left the game like for ages.
Blizzard spells out - what they do not count - in their PR announcements
have a look for self, how Blizzard defines subs
eu.blizzard.com/en/press/080122.html
excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards
EQ2 fan sites
And yet, WoW was already popular when they started running the Mr T and Ozzy commercials. Advertising wasn't what made WoW big.
Agreed, those gimmicky, celebrity filled commercials for WOW came out years later AFTER WOW was a huge success.
I see alot of people also saying that money made WOW a success. This I don't beleive. All the money in the world doesnt make a game successful, innovation and mass appeal does. Now if you say Blizzard took all that money and bought the best developers in the industry and thus became a success I would partly agree, but other games that have failed horribly also had the best developers. Look at Tabula Rasa! Year in the making and led up by an icon in the industry, Garriott. Also had loads of capital poured into it. It ended up as an abyssmal failure. Why? Simple it didnt have enough innovation or appeal to more people. Again, the WOW formula for success:
Accessability
Fanbase
Mass appeal to all the gamer types (Casual, CORE & Hardcore)
PVP for the PVP crowd
Innovation
Every MMO that has failed recently (or at least lost tons of subs) has been missing one or more of the elements above. They are either:
graphically challenged, with only the best machines able to run them properly;
too niche;
too unknown;
Too casual OR too Hardcore not allowing the various gamer types to engage in the game simutaneuosly.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Well you can be sure that any good PR department and by that I don't mean only Blizzards but any company will tell you things about "unicorns and rainbows" so take such announcements always with a good grain of salt portion.
Anyway.... for me was, still is and if they don't mess up in the future always be the best developer on MMOs and one of the first ones ever NCsoft.
I can't wait for AION and Soul&Blade to go into the beta status or be released!
Even Gems like City of Heroes/Villains, Guild Wars and many other games they brought were much better than WoW will ever be. Not to mention what Blizzard ripped from games like that and sold them as "new ideas" which wasn't the case.
Heck even free mmos are out there that are more fun than wow.
I remember the days where the first C&C came out from a VERY small company that couldn't afford large advertisement and stuff and then all of sudden Warcraft that "surprisingly" were using the exact same system popped out of nothing with the Blizzard name on it, lots of advertisement and money to push things to success which we all know took place.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Warcraft series (except wow of course) till the frozen throne and I still have them.
Fact is though that money rules the world in many occassions (sad but unfortunately true) and blizzard is the best example on this.
Blizzard spells out - what they do not count - in their PR announcements
have a look for self, how Blizzard defines subs
eu.blizzard.com/en/press/080122.html
excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
Yes, excludes free promotional subscriptions, but does not exclude initial free month players.
30 days is a long time. Do you know how many people quit or sign up for an MMO in 30 days?
They take one day, then bombard the TV and Internet with banners, Ozzy commercials, whatever other crap they lure people in with. On day 29, they compile all those numbers, 95% of which have not played since the day after seeing the commercials, combine that number with all the gold farmers, multi-boxers and angry teenagers' subscriptions... and you end up having a pretty impressive, albeit completely unrealistic, number.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.