Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
JGE is your best option for an mmo
freejackmack
Member Posts: 378
We as gamers have had to put up with a lot and stupid game dev habits have put deadlines before making a game fun.
ND is the only one to truly reinvent the way a game is made. The use of thousands of focus test groups over 2 years and a focus on fun are some key highlights to their new development process which they are calling the Vertical Slice Method. This method makes it possible to change whole aspects of the game more efficiently to correct things that are not as fun as they should be, by coding and focus testing key elements of the game before other elements that depend on the fundamentals are developed. The result is a game that has that finished feel and the fun that we would expect without all the annoying things getting in the way like lack of a nicely implemented ui and intelligent menus and options and a lack pvp, as some games have tried to push on us.
Not only is the development process revolutionary but the game itself is a fresh mmo experience. The combat is true hand eye coordination reliant which adds the much needed depth and strategy that point and click mmo's so desperately need; but it also makes you truly valuable not based not on your lvl or skill tree and class but on your skillful piloting in a near Newton physic engine called the Dancer Engine; which has done a good job making you feel like you are flying in space in the first Jumpgate game.
There are all the normal stuff that are associated with mmo's like auction, mail, guilds are called squads and gear management that makes you think about what trade offs to make. Manufacturing and mining are a bit different. Mining is more interactive than just hitting the key to start your mining lasers, you need to find nodes of minerals and you might get other things as well like a treasure hunt. Manufacturing requires you to travel to factories in dangerous places to get the good stuff made and get the good materials to make them.
The large scale pvp and pve battles are the clincher and this should be in every mmo in some form but JGE goes a step further and offers nation wide reduction in taxes and fees for holding pvp objective stations that require haulers to stock and maintain as well as fighters to protect. There will be the obvious gear rewards for world pvp but also titles and medals as far as we know as well.
One of the things that matters to me is that I don't have to fly around in a ship that does not look cool. Caldari ships from Eve had some real funky unattractive shapes and made me wish I could drive something I could be more inspired by. JGE has some very cool sexy ships for all factions to own. You should check the JGE site for screen shoots of these 
http://www.jumpgate-evolution.com/
So if you haven't been watching this game there you go. Beta is going to be starting in the near future so sign up and play the game and stop letting the game play you.
For more info check out the wiki - http://jumpgateevo.wikia.com/wiki/Jumpgate_Evolution_Wiki
Comments
Did you just get paid to write that? If not, where did you get the info on all this 2 year test group thing? Did ND invite a bunch of nilly willy noobs to JGC and ask them what thier opinions were about it before conceptual JGE gameplay was outlined?
Most, if not all, people who design games want their product to be fun. Because if the games they make arent fun, the said developers end up flipping burgers at the local steak n shake or suck up umemployment while making shitty mini games to post on newgrounds.They haven't reinvented anything imho.
For me, reading about this "vertical slice method" brought back nightmarish flashbacks of Sony developers, fire, brimstone, and NGE shennanigans. You know..... that one game where they took all the ego out and made it "fun"
Now, I'm not saying that this game sucks or anyhting like that. It's clear from the demos, interviews, screenshots, website, and forums that ND has a solid game coming. However, there has been speculation since the last irc chat that world pvp will be much more limited than JGE's ancestor, some arm waving about instanced battlefields and heads shaking over warpgate safe zones.
"Accessibility" as coined by the codemasters community manager has been thrown aorund a bit and quite frankly that one word worries me the most. When I think of accessibilty, I see images of shapeshifting night-elves and Karazan.
You sound like a JGC vet or have at least played it and yes it is good so why should we think any different about JGE. These guys are an experienced group of devs.
I assumed everyone knew what a focus test group is, so to clarify a what I was referring to is how they have not assumed that they know everything just because they're devs. What they do is take an iteration of the game and have people from around places like the game store or campus play it and ND watches and listens carefully to see how people respond to what they play. Things they learn are discussed and decisions are made for the next iteration of the game to test. This is not widely done in the game world to the extent it should be and what you get from assuming you know your game is fun is crap like swg nge and just about every game SOE touches as well as most of the games out there made quickly to meet the deadline with little attention to fun. Really what is the point of making a game that is not fun. For instance Eve has been a source of hours of frustration and very little fun, why would you make a game that does that to people, what exactly is the point.
The Vertical Slice method is an intelligent development path because of the many flaws of the traditional method. In the traditional game method the dev team charts out features of the game and what programing is needed for all the features of the whole game and then when all the details are thought to be worked out the team gets busy on the part that is assigned to them and when they are finished they submit it. The problem is that all parts are being coded at the same time and with out regard for whether each feature is fun or whether a feature takes away from the fun. What you get most times is a key mechanic in the game that all other features or parts depend on, is not fun and it is time consuming then to change the rest of the parts and features to fit to any changes made to that key mechanic.
The Vertical Slice method may seem like a bad idea time wise at the start but you rarely get things to work out perfectly all the way through the dev process and the traditional dev process leaves little time and room to do the all important focus tests to see if the game parts and features are truly fun. So what you do in the Vertical Slice method is create a slice of the game with key game mechanics and then focus test and change that slice until the game is as fun as it should be. When the key game mechanic is well focus tested and is as fun as it should be you develop the next logical mechanic or feature around your well tested key mechanic. This way there is less work to make a really fun game and it almost guarantees a fun game product and a finished feel that really can be considered art. Deadlines are not the focus in the Vertical Slice method and you really don't know when the game will be done because your focus testing process is unpredictable at best. The Vertical Slice method is the remedy for all the crap games we see being produced year after year.
Most game devs want to make their games fun so why are most games crap. The reason is because they are relying on the traditional method to make their games and the content for them.
World pvp has come under fire from the community but you can be sure the community will test the world pvp well in beta and it is being tested in alpha as well so what you will get is fun world pvp before it is released if it is not fun already.
Accessibility is not a bad thing as long as the game is fun as well and this is what focus groups are for. Focus groups help you see how to add accessibility to fun.
Mostly the concern I see from people is because of the unknown and that is understandable but we will have beta to see for ourselves in the near future and then I think the fun game they have worked so hard on will shine and then the game companies will have an example of how to make a game right.
I can't wait, I bloody need this game so I never have to play a dice roll point and click mmo game again.
Wouldnt classify myself as a vet. I only played from release up to a month or so after POS's were introduced (1.5 - 2 years I would guess).
You misunderstood. I know what a focus group is. My question is this: Where is the info that ND has used focus groups during their development of JGE other than demos at conventions and alpha testing?
"Most game devs want to make their games fun so why are most games crap. The reason is because they are relying on the traditional method to make their games and the content for them."
Most games aren't crap. I've been around and abusing them since the Atari 2600. The bulk of what I have experienced in my time has been positive.
I not sure it has much to do with the methods involved these days. Games in general and more specifically, the MMO's, have become fantastically expensive to create and release. I think the reason we are seeing alot of steaming turds is rich people (the current force behind making games) are looking at WOW and trying to reproduce its results without having to spend as much money. So far they have failed and will continue to fail.
Catering to specific customer segments would be a better idea for smaller studios. I just dont understand why they (ND) desire so much accessibility and carebear in a genre that has never been wildly popular in the multi-player division.
Seriuosly bro?
You need to go take some chill pills.
I guess you have not been fallowing JGE too long or too closely but here is one quote:
"You solved some of the major issues.
SB: Yeah. We had 200 players working on the same screen on 9600 baud modems then, so taking that and what we know now, those weren't the issues we had to solve, really. Really, it's all been about iteration. We never focus tested before. Beta was our focus testing. We never brought people in and recorded play sessions and asked questionnaires and made changes to the UI based on feedback. We never took that process before. That's something we've been doing here a lot. The other thing a small team gets you, though, is that it buys you time. It doesn't cost as much, so we can spend more time. " found here: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19479
Here is a quote I found real quick on mmorpg.com:
"Playtesting with novices might seem counterintuitive, but it makes an incredible amount of sense when you see the process in action. We sit the player down, telling them nothing beyond how to start the program. Then we observe. We make notes about what they say, look at, press, and click on. Often they'll tell us about things they find odd or confusing. We let them play for 15 to 30 minutes, whatever seems appropriate. Then we decide what to change or add. After we make the changes, in a day or so, we get another victim to playtest. The key is rapid iteration, doing this over and over until almost anyone can sit down, understand the interface with no trouble, and have enough fun playing the game that they want to play more. Most of our former playtesters are now clamoring for their next chance to play JGE, so we believe we are making good progress toward our accessibility goals." found here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/297/feature/1396/Steve-Istvan-Hartmeyer-Dev-Journal.html
There were many early interviews and one great one on mmorpg.com that I can't find for some reason but there you go.
ND has highlighted early on, all the specifics of their development process and had me taking note of the very intelligent direction they decided to go. It is not often you hear the devs say things like "as a dev you tend to think you know everything cause your making the game, but you really don't know and so focus tests have been a great tool for us to use." They said they spent months and 100's of iterations just on getting the ui right, which made me excited because I felt like these guys are really trying to get it right!
JGE evolution is by far the most promising mmo game I have ever fallowed.
I will only say this though promising this game will be totally overshadowed by Black Prophecy. It doesn't even come close to visual style and customization of Black prophecy. If i had to choose i will choose latter.
Hey the guys on the darkfall forums we're saying the same thing 5 months ago.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
Hey the guys on the darkfall forums we're saying the same thing 5 months ago.
Darkfall? what? sorry didn't get you.
What Black Prophecy has is still unclear but when a new sci-fi title comes out it is good for everyone indeed.
JGE is still the best bet, till BP has more info I can't really suggest it as a good bet and I also agree with the scalable low specs ND has decided to go with.
From what it sounds like BP will have a stat system for your avatar which is fine but why bother in a non dice roll twitch skill based combat system. Your stats are replaced by your piloting skills. I hope it is not dice roll game lol, for the sake of the mmo world dice roll needs to go imo.
Just to dicuss this a bit more, BP will not be releasing anytime soon. Not even much later soon.
Neocron was not good. Not by a longshot.
What little info I found on BP does not indicate that the flight engine will be as fine tuned and refined as ND's Dancer Engine which they have further refined from the version that is currently in the first Jumpgate. It continues to be the source of great fun to master this flight engine in the current Jumpgate (Jumpgate Clasic- JGC). This is partly the reason for the excitement over JGE.
I don't think JGE will have much competition in the flight engine department, this is not their first mmo space game.
For more info: jumpgateevo.wikia.com/wiki/Jumpgate_Evolution_Wiki
I will be playing JGE when it comes out and if I get into the beta. But people cannot forget the the Black Prophecy is also being developed by a seasoned crew that brought you Neocron. Reakktor is making a good game and from what I have been seeing in screenshots and reading on what you will be able to do with customizations will give JGE a good run for their money. I have been reading there will be a decent amount of instancing in JGE which might be an issue personally. There are a lot of people that dislike instancing and prefer the open world concept. but i won't give any judgement until I have played the game. BP just launched it's new website and have been rolling out new pics and info so go and read up on it.
Come and checkout my website:
SpaceSimCentral.com - Your Space Sim Community Gaming Resource
Discuss EVE, JGE, BP, Infinity, Taikodom, FL, FS, HW, WC, X and more
This is some new info strait from ND's leader Scorch, to answer some concerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantos View Post
This is what concerns me. why go out and search for pvp when you can press a button and have pvp come to you and get rewarded for it?
I personally prefer open pvp, especially if its for territory, revenge, guild rivalries, facilities/buildings, whatever. Its been that way for me ever since I played shadowbane. I just think its a more rewarding experience than doing the same blased scenario over and over with nothing ever changing.
Scorch:
Did you not answer your own question here? I agree, all of those things are cooler than just fighting in the PvP scenario.
Also, the rewards will be balanced between what you can achieve in Battlespace vs what you can achieve in open PvP.
Just to say it as clearly as possible you can not achieve from the battlespace what you can from open PvP but you can acheive something.