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What do we know about Crafting and Housing ?

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  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 422

    The problem with any game is one person loves crafting and player housing, and one hates it. The biggest thing I think that hass screwed up a lot of the games that have come out recently is listening way to much to the community. They dilute and contort the games in some feeble attempt to make pve/pvp/sandbox/themepark hybrids, and then watch as the game slowly dies due to no one being happy.

    You can't please all the people all the time so I would like to see bioware take this game in whatever direction they want. Listening to the fan base is a double edged sword at best.

    I played SWG as well, it was fun for a while, but the item decay, endless farming and the insane amount of time you had to invest to gear (only to see that gear get smashed to hell and then having to go pay someone to fix it), coupled with the fact you couldn't solo a 1 legged rat without a full load of overpriced doctor buffs (or a jedi), ended it for me. Crafting favored people who had 12 hrs a day to spend living for it  and who had multiple accounts. The worst thing, again for me, not neccisarily others,  was player cities and that retarded political system. Once players started leaving with millions of cred in their homes, there were so many ghost towns full of empty vendors that it made finding a specific thing a nightmare. At the end of the day SWG was a RL in a imaginary future simulator. It was a job.

    /rant off. Like I said, I just hope Bioware has a firm direction in mind and doesn't let vocal minorities in the player base make them comprimise what they intend.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by hayes303


    The problem with any game is one person loves crafting and player housing, and one hates it.

    The thing with this is that the player who hates crafting and housing, doesn't have to craft or get a house. BUT a game that offers those things will attract the kind of player base that builds the kind of community a pvp or combatant type player enjoys playing in.

    Personally I don't craft but love playing games that have a deep crafting system because they make the game and player base so much deeper, plus I like knowing I can always try my hand or dabble in crafting as a diversion.

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by hayes303


    The problem with any game is one person loves crafting and player housing, and one hates it.

    The thing with this is that the player who hates crafting and housing, doesn't have to craft or get a house. BUT a game that offers those things will attract the kind of player base that builds the kind of community a pvp or combatant type player enjoys playing in.

    Personally I don't craft but love playing games that have a deep crafting system because they make the game and player base so much deeper, plus I like knowing I can always try my hand or dabble in crafting as a diversion.



     

    Um, the problem is not that we would be forced to craft, but that yet again, crafters would cry foul if adventurers weren't dependent on crafting products in order to, you know, go out and adventure.  Being enslaved to a niche mechanic such as crafting or raiding, which only appeals to a small subset of the player base is the wrong approach in my opinion.  I really hope Bioware sticks to their guns and makes a fun, interactive game that focuses on the adventure, which is what interests players the most.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 422

    I'm not saying no crafting, I just think crafting should make usefull, but not required things. A crafting system that favors the hardcore in this game would probably not suit what it seems Bioware is shooting for. 

    I know there are a lot of people who think that crafters should make the best items, or at least things that are comparable to the best items in the game. What goes unsaid is they then usually gouge the crap out of the rest of the player base for said items, or theguy  who just wants to kill stuff feels forced to craft to get the aforementioned best/equvilent gear. This also creates that fun sub-market of people too lazy to craft, who sell harvested crafting mats to other people too lazy to go harvest their own mats. It takes the game from a game to a job, for those harvesting and selling mats, to those crafting the stuff, to those who are farming money just to buy the stuff.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by hayes303


    The problem with any game is one person loves crafting and player housing, and one hates it.

    The thing with this is that the player who hates crafting and housing, doesn't have to craft or get a house. BUT a game that offers those things will attract the kind of player base that builds the kind of community a pvp or combatant type player enjoys playing in.

    Personally I don't craft but love playing games that have a deep crafting system because they make the game and player base so much deeper, plus I like knowing I can always try my hand or dabble in crafting as a diversion.

    Um, the problem is not that we would be forced to craft, but that yet again, crafters would cry foul if adventurers weren't dependent on crafting products in order to, you know, go out and adventure.  Being enslaved to a niche mechanic such as crafting or raiding, which only appeals to a small subset of the player base is the wrong approach in my opinion.  I really hope Bioware sticks to their guns and makes a fun, interactive game that focuses on the adventure, which is what interests players the most.

    If there is gear, adventurers need to get it. Why does it matter who you get it from? Isn't the game more robust if there is a dynamic amongst the player base other than combat? It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. A game with depth of types of adventuring can offer crafted, npc sold, drop, quest reward, and raid reward gear. If there is no gear, no crafting and just adventuring, its hardly an MMO. Its just a standalone rpg with multiplayer. 

    This is one of the things bothering me about the trend in MMO's. People who don't really like what MMO's are supposed to be about are forcing the industry to basically make standalone games with multiplayer, yet call them MMO's.

     

  • uohaloranuohaloran Member Posts: 811

    Gah.  I really hope they suprise us.  I don't see this game building a tight community at all.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    Originally posted by Miklosan


    Guess only Bioware knows about this at this moment.
     
    I read that there were player housing in SWG though. (being discussed here: http://gamezig.com/mmorpg/star-wars-the-old-republic-swtor-player-housing )
     
    For you guys that have played SWG, did it work out well? Should it be implemented in SWTOR you think?
     
     

     

    I played SWG from launch until they fixed it to death.  Had a Pre-pub 9 Jedi and a BH.  I absolutly loved the housing system in SWG.  

    Guilds could basicly build thier own city and have all the stuff you need to go adventuring right at hand, cantina's, shuttle port's, every thing.  It really made the game feel like you had a home base.  Crafting was good, I did not have as much experience in this (except light sabre's of course) but from what I saw it was well received.

    The only thing I would change about how SWG did housing is changing how they gave away city plot's.  Basicly, if you had a big enough guild and could claim an area of land you could have a plot.  I would set a tier system. 

    How that would work; You take the top 25% of the guilds on a server, for sake of argument with 100+ members, ok they can bid on city sites on a planet.  We call these tier 1 sites (again just for sake of discussion) they will allow a major metropolitan area to be built.  All the bells and whistles.  But there are only maybe 2 - 3 sites this size on a planet.

    Tier 2.  Same concept fewer bells and whistles but there are 5 - 6 site available on a planet.

    Tier 3.  Smaller maybe a bell or two, no whistle.  3 - 4 sites per planet.

    Tier 4.  Geared towards smaller guilds, basically an outpost maybe a shuttle pad, some housing plots.  Again 3 -4 sites per planet.

    Not all guilds (clans, unit's w/e you want to call them) want to be a super guild, some enjoy the closeness of a few friends, yet still want to enjoy developing a small village, haveing a basic home base.  While giant super guilds can exploit their members and have huge project's to complete and reap the rewards.

    Anyway, I truly hope they implement some form of player housing.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 422

    I think the rampant speculation and the differing of opinions is based on the lack of solid info that we have on the game. Once it gets close to open beta/launch, people will see what the features are and then decide if the game is for them or not. There will probably be people who have had some passionate ideas and who were initially excited about this game walk away once Bioware tells us the nitty gritty about the game. There might be some who think its a junk idea now who come around. Its way to far away to look at the little scraps/differences of opinions as anything more than that. A community will form around the game.

    I do like crafting, but I didn't like how SWG did it. I hope the focus is on adventuring, and that crafting adds to it, not overpowers it. I don't like 4 hr buffs that are required to play, and I don't like player made/run cities (housing is ok). If Bioware puts all that stuff in, I probably won't play it, but there will be lots of others who will. If all that stuff is not in the game, there is definatly going to be people who don't play it, but I will. That doesn't mean either is right/wrong or the game sucks/does not suck. Everyone has different playstyles.

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896

    Why do people care about player housing? I am honestly curious. Other than extra storage, which could be accomplished with a bigger bank vault, or crafting stations in house, which can be found other places, whats the point? I am not playing Barbie's here, I don't need a Malibu dream house?

    image
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    Originally posted by hayes303


    I think the rampant speculation and the differing of opinions is based on the lack of solid info that we have on the game. Once it gets close to open beta/launch, people will see what the features are and then decide if the game is for them or not. There will probably be people who have had some passionate ideas and who were initially excited about this game walk away once Bioware tells us the nitty gritty about the game. There might be some who think its a junk idea now who come around. Its way to far away to look at the little scraps/differences of opinions as anything more than that. A community will form around the game.
    I do like crafting, but I didn't like how SWG did it. I hope the focus is on adventuring, and that crafting adds to it, not overpowers it. I don't like 4 hr buffs that are required to play, and I don't like player made/run cities (housing is ok). If Bioware puts all that stuff in, I probably won't play it, but there will be lots of others who will. If all that stuff is not in the game, there is definatly going to be people who don't play it, but I will. That doesn't mean either is right/wrong or the game sucks/does not suck. Everyone has different playstyles.

     

    I completly agree with you.  We have opposing opinions on a few thing's, but eh to each thier own, all I really want is not another WoW clone doing the same thing, just with lightsabers.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Senadina


    Why do people care about player housing? I am honestly curious. Other than extra storage, which could be accomplished with a bigger bank vault, or crafting stations in house, which can be found other places, whats the point? I am not playing Barbie's here, I don't need a Malibu dream house?

     

    It can increase a player's emotional/intellectual investment into their character and the game which leads to a deeper and more robust community. Plus done right it can allow for greater crafting opportunities, player creativity and greater positive player interaction. All good things in an MMO.

    The thing is, its becoming apparent that the current trend in MMO's is more like standalone rpg's with multiplayer, rather than the comminity building environments that make pve/pvp so much fun to engage in.

    The thing I find puzzling is why some people who don't want housing, seem to be so vehemently against it, even though there has never been a requirement for player to own a house if they don't want one. Its just one of those game dynamics that can increase the playablitity and enjoyment of a game for all, even those who don't participate in it.

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 422
    Originally posted by dhayes68


     
    The thing I find puzzling is why some people who don't want housing, seem to be so vehemently against it, even though there has never been a requirement for player to own a house if they don't want one. Its just one of those game dynamics that can increase the playablitity and enjoyment of a game for all, even those who don't participate in it.



     

    For myself, I am apathetic about player housing. In the games I played with player housing, I've always had one and its never made the game anymore immersive or enjoyable (other than a good place to drop off my swag). I hate player cities and I really hated the political system that came with it in SWG. My hesistation about huge intricate crafting systems and player cities stems from playing too many games that became jobs because of it. They become crafter dominated grindfests. I also am not a bit pvp fan, esp in a pve game (more games have been gutted of any innovation in the name of "class balance" than any other reason).

    I like the low lvl crafting, making potions/bags/lvling set of armor and weapons. Nothing that someone who absolutly hated crafting and didn't want to get gouged in a player run econmy couldn't do without. I think what a lot of people here are asking for is essential items/buffs made only by crafters that would force everyone else to either make their own crafter characters and dedicate large amounts of time to farming mats/money to buy crafting mats or to use their playtime to grind/farm stuff to sell for money so they can buy the uber crafted gear.

    In the player run economies, gouging is rampant, new players feel like they can never get ahead and there is almost always a whole demographic who just sits in the ah/bazaar/whatever and buys things to relist them at a higher price. But it does keep the high end crafters flush with cash and their community together and happy. I think it hurts the rest of the players who might not enjoy crafting as much as some.

    Sorry for the long winded rant, I got a bit side tracked. I do wish Bioware would come out with their plan for the game in greater detail, I suspect that the deep immersion sandbox fans are going to be dissappointed, but I hope that there is some new ideas that everyone can embrace in this game.

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Originally posted by hayes303


    I'm not saying no crafting, I just think crafting should make usefull, but not required things. A crafting system that favors the hardcore in this game would probably not suit what it seems Bioware is shooting for. 
    I know there are a lot of people who think that crafters should make the best items, or at least things that are comparable to the best items in the game. What goes unsaid is they then usually gouge the crap out of the rest of the player base for said items, or theguy  who just wants to kill stuff feels forced to craft to get the aforementioned best/equvilent gear. This also creates that fun sub-market of people too lazy to craft, who sell harvested crafting mats to other people too lazy to go harvest their own mats. It takes the game from a game to a job, for those harvesting and selling mats, to those crafting the stuff, to those who are farming money just to buy the stuff.

    Who says people want a system favouring hardcore's. Saying crafters gouge the market is the same to me as when people camp mobs that drop the best gear and sell it on the broker at crazy prices. I would like to see a system where you can get gear from either crafting, questing or mob drops.

    Housing doesnt really take that much work to implement (if they instanced it) and having crafters make items for housing hurts no-one but will bring in a whole lot of people who love that sort of thing.

    I love the sub-market of harvesters and crafters. Its a good way to create a community that helps each other and works together if done right. If people take the time and make and effort to get to know crafters they would find they can get good deals. I know if people seek me out and get me talking i usually end up selling my wares for cost lol.

    Why call people lazy if they dont want to craft or harvest? Some people dont like either but then some people dont like adventuring and fighting either.

    I hope Bioware goes and surprises us with decent crafting and housing. I rather more than less in my mmo's.

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Originally posted by Senadina


    Why do people care about player housing? I am honestly curious. Other than extra storage, which could be accomplished with a bigger bank vault, or crafting stations in house, which can be found other places, whats the point? I am not playing Barbie's here, I don't need a Malibu dream house?

    I've known people who just logged on to decorate peoples houses/apartments (and get paid for it). Some of the designs they've come up with have been pretty spectacular and i guess they love it for being able to be creative.

    There are people who dont like adventuring or fighting but you don't see them posting derogatory comments about people who have different play styles. MMO's should be more inclusive rather than restrictive, at least imo.

     

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Noktaris


    I really doubt there will be player housing...you know this topic is always extremely popular,and tons of people are let down by the news that player housing is not included in new MMO's. You would think MMO companies would get the hint that people want it.

     

    Oh they do extensive research. The reason they are not doing it is that not enough people want it.

    Personally, if they have resources, I would much rather to have a new dungeon to explore than play housing. You really can't do much with player housing anyway.

     

    Ahh, the simple minded mass market target audience. Lovely.

    I am amazed at how many people are arguing against a part of the game that they really don't care for even though other people really like it. You don't hear the people that like housing complaining about how there should be no combat in the game just because they don't like it.

    MMO's are about bringing a wide variety of different playstyles together into the same game world. But, the instant gratification crowd has come in and demanded that their playstyle and only their playstyle be the one catered to. Sad really.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Arawon


    I am playing VG because it has housing and deep crafting.I won't play a game that does not have it....period.



     

    Yes you will...want to know why?

     

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 422
    Originally posted by Mykell

    Originally posted by hayes303


    I'm not saying no crafting, I just think crafting should make usefull, but not required things. A crafting system that favors the hardcore in this game would probably not suit what it seems Bioware is shooting for. 
    I know there are a lot of people who think that crafters should make the best items, or at least things that are comparable to the best items in the game. What goes unsaid is they then usually gouge the crap out of the rest of the player base for said items, or theguy  who just wants to kill stuff feels forced to craft to get the aforementioned best/equvilent gear. This also creates that fun sub-market of people too lazy to craft, who sell harvested crafting mats to other people too lazy to go harvest their own mats. It takes the game from a game to a job, for those harvesting and selling mats, to those crafting the stuff, to those who are farming money just to buy the stuff.

    Who says people want a system favouring hardcore's. Saying crafters gouge the market is the same to me as when people camp mobs that drop the best gear and sell it on the broker at crazy prices. I would like to see a system where you can get gear from either crafting, questing or mob drops.

    Housing doesnt really take that much work to implement (if they instanced it) and having crafters make items for housing hurts no-one but will bring in a whole lot of people who love that sort of thing.

    I love the sub-market of harvesters and crafters. Its a good way to create a community that helps each other and works together if done right. If people take the time and make and effort to get to know crafters they would find they can get good deals. I know if people seek me out and get me talking i usually end up selling my wares for cost lol.

    Why call people lazy if they dont want to craft or harvest? Some people dont like either but then some people dont like adventuring and fighting either.

    I hope Bioware goes and surprises us with decent crafting and housing. I rather more than less in my mmo's.



     

    You really are picking and choosing from what I said. No where did I say that there should be no crafting. I stated my opinion that a mixture of both would be good, and how I have seen a lot of crafting systems dominate other aspects of gameplay in other games. The lazy comment was directed to those other games where I have seen those markets. These imaginary people who you feel so strong about, are simply used as a example of how inflation in these crafter based economies gets out of control.

    A lot of people are saying they want a hardcore crafting system. If you go as far into it as SWG, with harvesters and vendors and storefronts, you are telling me that someone who plays 12 hrs a day (an exaggeration, but I think you see what I mean) doesn't have a advantage over someone who plays 2 hrs a night.

    I never said housing was somehow hard to impliment. I just said in a earlier post, I didn't like how it was implimented in SWG as player run citites. I had houses in games from EQ2/DAOC/LOTRO?SWG, I found it a small and irrelevent part of gameplay. But thats me. I don't think instanced housing or non-player run housing has any impact on anyone else. Its the crafting I am mostly talking about.

    Some people don't like adventuring and fighting. Thats cool. Your out of luck in this game though, as Bioware has already said that will pretty much be the focus. The question is how deep the crafting will be and if there is housing.

    I hope Bioware goes and surprises us with the whole game. I am just saying what I like and my reservations with some of the things I have seen people ask for in this game.

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780

    Every economy will be affected by inflation and eventually prices will get beyond what new people joining the game can ever afford whether the game has crafting or not. Every level based game will favour people who play more so those people who play 12hrs will always have the advantage over people who play 2hrs.

    To obtain good or rare gear in any game will require some substantial effort on the players part whether its harvesting materials, saving up enough coin to buy an item on the broker, camping a mob that drops a piece of gear you want, doing some long arse quest for that sword of ubarness or raiding a dragon with 23 other people and hoping you get lucky.

    Different people will prefer different ways to get this loot and rather than saying one way is better than the other i prefer if a game has multiple ways to obtain it to keep everyone happy.

    What really annoys me is that AAA+ developers seem to think less = better. Mythic devs said if they didnt find something "fun" they ditched it hence why crafting in that game was so lacking (yet items were still over priced on the broker). People have such a different definition of fun thou and by only trying to appeal to what you think is fun is just limiting a mmo's potential audience and games that thought they knew exactly what gamers wanted like AoC and WAR end up being niche (imo).

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896

    I am really amazed that you found my post derogatory, or an argument against player housing. I really don't care one way or the other if its included in a game. I am free to have one or not. My question was towards those who think no player housing is a game breaking feature. Let's agree to disagree. My definition of a fun MMO is obviously different than yours'. I don't see them as graphically enhanced chat rooms  or social spaces where we can chill at my pad. I see them as an action /adventure /rpg game. And there lies our philosophical difference. That's all it is.

    image
  • hierodulehierodule Member Posts: 9
    Originally posted by hayes303


    The biggest thing I think that has screwed up a lot of the games that have come out recently is listening way too much to the community. They dilute and contort the games [...] and then watch as the game slowly dies due to no one being happy.
    You can't please all the people all the time so I would like to see bioware take this game in whatever direction they want. [...]
     At the end of the day SWG was a RL in a imaginary future simulator. It was a job.
    /rant off. Like I said, I just hope Bioware has a firm direction in mind and doesn't let vocal minorities in the player base make them comprimise what they intend.

     

    QFT. Stop trying to make everyone and his mom happy and just make a good game.  Stop trying to make "the next WoW." You mix all colors and end up with dull, gray paint. Focus on a few areas and excel in them.

    Plenty of other MMOs around to satisfy each personal preference.

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Originally posted by Senadina


    I am really amazed that you found my post derogatory, or an argument against player housing. I really don't care one way or the other if its included in a game. I am free to have one or not. My question was towards those who think no player housing is a game breaking feature. Let's agree to disagree. My definition of a fun MMO is obviously different than yours'. I don't see them as graphically enhanced chat rooms  or social spaces where we can chill at my pad. I see them as an action /adventure /rpg game. And there lies our philosophical difference. That's all it is.

    Implying that people who enjoy housing is like dressing up barbie dolls could be taken as an insult lol. Derogratory is probably too harsh a word thou so i apologuise.

    I never said mmo's were just chat rooms or social spaces. I'm not even that much into housing thou i like crafting. Its just that i know plenty of people who enjoy these activities in their mmo's yet so many developers just seem to ignore these people and cater for adventurers mainly.

    When they do and create mmo's like WAR you just get a game not a community. WAR seemed so empty. You hardly had people talking in any type of chat and it felt like a big FPS. Most everyone i know was bored and had left after 2 months. Yet take Vanguard. It was the most broken mmo i have ever played lol yet i stayed for 15months along with most of my guild cause it felt like more of a online community imo.

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by hayes303


    The problem with any game is one person loves crafting and player housing, and one hates it.

    The thing with this is that the player who hates crafting and housing, doesn't have to craft or get a house. BUT a game that offers those things will attract the kind of player base that builds the kind of community a pvp or combatant type player enjoys playing in.

    Personally I don't craft but love playing games that have a deep crafting system because they make the game and player base so much deeper, plus I like knowing I can always try my hand or dabble in crafting as a diversion.

    Um, the problem is not that we would be forced to craft, but that yet again, crafters would cry foul if adventurers weren't dependent on crafting products in order to, you know, go out and adventure.  Being enslaved to a niche mechanic such as crafting or raiding, which only appeals to a small subset of the player base is the wrong approach in my opinion.  I really hope Bioware sticks to their guns and makes a fun, interactive game that focuses on the adventure, which is what interests players the most.

    If there is gear, adventurers need to get it. Why does it matter who you get it from? Isn't the game more robust if there is a dynamic amongst the player base other than combat? It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. A game with depth of types of adventuring can offer crafted, npc sold, drop, quest reward, and raid reward gear. If there is no gear, no crafting and just adventuring, its hardly an MMO. Its just a standalone rpg with multiplayer. 

    This is one of the things bothering me about the trend in MMO's. People who don't really like what MMO's are supposed to be about are forcing the industry to basically make standalone games with multiplayer, yet call them MMO's.

     



     

    What matters is that being forced to grind gold / credits to pay a crafter for gear is not fun, nor is it in the spirit of adventuring and it has the added detriment of removing a large part of the incentive to actually go out and adventure.  It's a hella lot more fun to get cool drops than it is to depend on crafter for our gear.  I don't think crafting is an important part of a MMO, what makes it an MMO is that a bunch of people play the game in a static world, with tons of quests and tons of mobs to kill.  All of the rest of it is merely extraneous crap that only appeals to a small portion of the player base.  I guarantee you that less than 20% of any game's population cares for or participates in crafting.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • VrazuleVrazule Member Posts: 1,095
    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Noktaris


    I really doubt there will be player housing...you know this topic is always extremely popular,and tons of people are let down by the news that player housing is not included in new MMO's. You would think MMO companies would get the hint that people want it.

     

    Oh they do extensive research. The reason they are not doing it is that not enough people want it.

    Personally, if they have resources, I would much rather to have a new dungeon to explore than play housing. You really can't do much with player housing anyway.

     

    Ahh, the simple minded mass market target audience. Lovely.

    I am amazed at how many people are arguing against a part of the game that they really don't care for even though other people really like it. You don't hear the people that like housing complaining about how there should be no combat in the game just because they don't like it.

    MMO's are about bringing a wide variety of different playstyles together into the same game world. But, the instant gratification crowd has come in and demanded that their playstyle and only their playstyle be the one catered to. Sad really.



     

    Here, I'll put it in a simple format for you limited intelligence to grasp.  Resources expended on content such as housing, crafting and raiding, take away resources from the real content that most people participate in.  If you despise the masses so much, why do you play MMO's?  MMO's are all about the mass market, simple minded or not.

    We already have a ton of MMO's with all of the features you so dearly want.  This game is trying to be different, embrace it or move on.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Originally posted by Vrazule

    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Noktaris






     

     Resources expended on content such as housing, crafting and raiding, take away resources from the real content that most people participate in. 

    Mind explaining to me what you see as real content?

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896

    I can't argue against your point Mykell. I play WAR, and yes there is NO chat. So maybe you have something tthere. I also play LOTRO, which has player housing and crafting; and a more vibrant community. Of course it also has a more compelling storyline, so that might have something to do with it too. You make a good point and it has answered my original question    .

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