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Stop whining - Aventurine has not lied to you or done you any wrong
After finding this quote in another thread, i was reminded of how much some of you people are crying like little babies.
"We've dedicated our resources to development, knowing that our game can compete a lot better than our publicity can. Once we've shown what we can do, I believe that what we say will make a bigger impact." -Claus Grovdal
So lets get a few things cleared up, i know it wont stop the crying as most of it is just a way to troll aimlessly, but maybe it will open a few eyes....
1) Aventurine has made some rookie mistakes by announcing multiple development timelines that they have failed to meet. Obviously they should have kept quiet unless they were 100% positive. No one will argue this.
2) You, YES YOU, decided to follow this game prelaunch. You have not invested anything in DF.
3) Aventurine has every right to not tell us anything until the game is ready for purchase, yet they still take the time to keep us in the loop.
4) Them failing to meet announced dates is NOT lieing.
5) They don't "suck at PR"...they made a choice to not dedicate their resources to it in the same way of other MMOs that have spolied us with lots of info prelaunch (most of which have failed miserably).
The only thing that you have a right to judge Darkfall on is the finished product on release....that is it.
Now you may judge aventurine on its business decisions all you want, but they are very different things. Tasos being a little overzealous does not mean these guys dont know how to develop a mmo.
And if you want to debate Aventurine's business decision to not do a lot of PR, go for it, my arguement is that for the last few months they have been at the top of this sites "unique hits" every day and their beta signups for a game with a small audience seems to show they have the word out, even with assuming a lot of people just sign up for a free game.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Comments
Double post
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
You are right, they havent done anything. Anything to prove they can be trusted.
Tinfoil party at Aguitha's house!
The point is they haven't done anything to prove they can't be trusted either.
Certainly haven't done anything to merit the "Aventurine is a shit company" comments that are apparently common in this forum.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Never underestimate the fun bored people can have baiting Fanbois. I wouldn't read too much into any of the trolling/whining that goes on. A lot of it is just people poking the hornets nest and standing back.
I pretty much agree with the OP except for the part about Tasos being overzealous. The only people who would have a right to be mad if this game fails are the investors.
/sigh sad part is, I know I'm swallowing this troll bait hook, line, and sinker...
There is enough evidence out there to suggest that DFO could be a great. Unfortunately, Aventurine doesn't appear to be the company to want to deliver. Sure, they can code. Unfortunately, their lack of business sense is self evident. Seriously, seven days from launch and look at all the information we don't know. If Aventurine is going to treat their future customer base with this much contempt before launch, how much support do you think we are going to get post launch?
I still believe that if Aventurine wants to be successful, their first order of business should be to get a new "face person" for DFO. I won't bother posting all the links because you wouldn't bother reading them anyway. To me, Tasos has brought too much discredit upon himself and Aventurine. From his misquoting his own resume last August, to the "there will be no pre-orders", to "everyone will be able to try before you buy", and this list could go on and on. Most people just laugh at anything Tasos has to say now.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Don't forget, bored people also have fun baiting trolls too. In fact, because the trolls are almost always dumber and more clueless, baiting them is greater lulz.
The OP is right though, why people are expecting more from an indie developer like Aventurine than they do from big developers like Blizzard in terms of constant communication and handholding makes no sense.
LEAVE DARKFALL ALONE!!!!!!!
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
This is a ctrl-c of ur answer in another post.
U could have made ur point shorter and more succinct without having to do something that is held as an example in the troll definitions.
-Darkstar
Too bad I have to go to work in a few.
If your gonna quote, then get it right.
Tasos made that statement. Did you even read the whole thing?
I'll link it up again for ya.
The part you quoted is the last one on the first page.
Darkfall Update Interview November 28, 2005
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Tinfoil party at Aguitha's house!
The point is they haven't done anything to prove they can't be trusted either.
Certainly haven't done anything to merit the "Aventurine is a shit company" comments that are apparently common in this forum.
What you mean besides being full of crap every step of the line? Aventurine is a shit company. They couldn't meet even a tentative schedule if they tried and 90% of the things they've said, when the deign to provide anything other than simply evasions, have proven to false, misleading, or simply nonsensical. Even judged by the abominably low levels of competency expected from MMO companies they're substandard. If by some miracle they actually produce a moderately sucessful game I'll applaud them but I'll never hold hem up as a shining example to game developers anywhaere. Seriously develop some perspective.
No, if anything they haven been proven to be wrong.
Tell me anything at all, give me ur BEST SHOT, anything that shows them being misleading.
-Darkstar
Yet another useless post by a Darkfall supporter. With no other purpose then to throw oil on a fire they claim they didn't create. Just like OriginalEgg you claim to want to debate and discuss Darkfall. Though just like him it seems like you really don't. You'd rather make inflammatory titles, that you know for a fact, will do nothing but make matters worse. You want to debate and discuss Darkfall fine. Just stop with these silly threads. Picking a fight, then quickly turning around playing the wounded victim, when you find out you bit off more then you can chew.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Tinfoil party at Aguitha's house!
The point is they haven't done anything to prove they can't be trusted either.
Certainly haven't done anything to merit the "Aventurine is a shit company" comments that are apparently common in this forum.
What you mean besides being full of crap every step of the line? Aventurine is a shit company. They couldn't meet even a tentative schedule if they tried and 90% of the things they've said, when the deign to provide anything other than simply evasions, have proven to false, misleading, or simply nonsensical. Even judged by the abominably low levels of competency expected from MMO companies they're substandard. If by some miracle they actually produce a moderately sucessful game I'll applaud them but I'll never hold hem up as a shining example to game developers anywhaere. Seriously develop some perspective.
Thanks I needed a good example to prove the point in my OP.
Thank you sir!
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
ok?
funny i dont see you posting this in the threads created by trolls on the other end of the spectrum....
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
This is a ctrl-c of ur answer in another post.
U could have made ur point shorter and more succinct without having to do something that is held as an example in the troll definitions.
-Darkstar
I know, but the OP ignored my reply to his other post. Since the topic was pretty much the same, I thought I would save myself some key strokes. Besides, it isn't like the OP will listen to reason anyway. It's funny that when a troll repeats him or her self in multiple threads, it called trolling. Yet, if a fanbois repeats himself over and over he or she is considered a champion of the cause. Very much a double standard if you ask me.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
What also needs to stop is fanboi posts like the OP made telling people to stop whining. Way too many of these as well.
Aventurine made their own bed, now they have to lie in it.
At this point I don't think its possible for DF to meet the expectations set by Tasos promises, no matter what they deliver the criticism will be withering.
Fair? Maybe not. But it is what results when a Dev team choses to be as secretive as this one did.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dude, don't be... silly.
1) ok
2) I invested my time in following this game, I had my hopes up for this game, and the company keeps letting me down yet again. Are you telling me spending my time trying to find out more about the game worthless? Are you telling me my hopes are worthless? Hell yeah, I invested my personal interest in this game and its not worthless to me.
3) How do they keep us in the loop? By not telling us anything? The little trickles of official announcements are being presented in such unprofessional way by Taco, that sometimes Im wondering if the whole thing is a joke or not.
4) First of all, nobody called them a liar as far as I know, at least that is not the major issue with the company. The major issue is constant postponements, delays, misinformation (lack of information can be counted as misinformation in my book). Ok, so how many times (in your opinion) do they have to fail announced dates to qualify for a puzzled "WTF???"? In my book its 2. They already passed that number so that why I keep thinking "WTF is with this game. Is it coming out or not?"
5) Dude, do you realize that their company is a BUSINESS!!?? They WANT to sell their product, right? So how can they sell it without normal PR? If they used your logic, then they shouldnt have announced their game at all. They should have kept their mouths shut and just finish the game. But no, they had to open the mouth and announce the game. They had to show the side boob amd arouse.. err, raise our interest. And after they raised our interest they completely shut us out. They teased us. Is that normal for a business? no. Business does NOT want to piss off their potencial clients. Business does NOT want less sales. Does NOT want people getting the wrong idea about their product. If you listen and believe every word they say then it just shows your personality - you like others thinking for yourself. Stop, read and think for yourself. Dont believe what the company says just because they say so. A lot of stuff they say does not make sense in a business world.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Lemme take a shot at that:
- The website as it is up now is still advertising a game we will never see. Anyone who informs themselves about this game on their website is getting false information. Yet there isn't even a "Under COnstruction" or "Being Revised" sign there. No...it's there as though it is fact.
- Telling your fanbase and potential customers a couple of months before this that the game is ready and that all the Trolls can go stuff themselves and that they are more ready than any game ever at release....and then having numerous Beta-Leaks that suggest otherwise, nevermind the fact they pushed back their launch because they were not ready (and before you give me the numbers BS, this was said by Tasos AFTER they had already -boasted- about the 300k Beta Signups. And then suddenly, at some point, they are totally surprised by the interest in the game? Yeah....right).
That's two I can name without even having to go through Dev Journals and the like. I would say that is pretty misleading right there.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
For me it boils down to this:
Show me any other MMO with only 7 days to go until launch where this info was unknown:
7 days until Release ... the NDA is still up. That's pretty much all you need to know. Point to just 1 single successful MMO that did that. Just one.
No we are not expecting more from Aventurine than Blizzard, but I do expect them to be better than NPCube! So far my expectations have been found wanting.
Dude, don't be... silly.
1) ok
ok
2) I invested my time in following this game, I had my hopes up for this game, and the company keeps letting me down yet again. Are you telling me spending my time trying to find out more about the game worthless? Are you telling me my hopes are worthless? Hell yeah, I invested my personal interest in this game and its not worthless to me.
Im not going to respond to this....are you serious? Fine ill respond to it....the whole point of my OP was that YOU chose to invest your time. I never said your time is worthless, you are just arguing with yourself....the point is that you only have yourself to blame if you feel let down, Aventurine is not responsible for your made up expectations of what they should give you prerelease.
3) How do they keep us in the loop? By not telling us anything? The little trickles of official announcements are being presented in such unprofessional way by Taco, that sometimes Im wondering if the whole thing is a joke or not.
Yes exactly....seriosuly did you read me op? Tasos isnt a PR guy, he is a dev who will take the time to do some minimal PR for the company and is admittedly not that concerned with it (see the big quote in my op that i misquoted as claus, its actual tasos)
4) First of all, nobody called them a liar as far as I know, at least that is not the major issue with the company.
You must be new to these forums....
Red.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I would like to point out that yes they are a business (and i applaud you for noticing that) they are developing and moo and as such different financial equations come into play. They dont need huge pre launch PR because mmos dont make their money based on how many sales they can get at launch like every other game type does. Instead mmos on a pay to play system make their money on their peak player base. By not putting a lot of information about themselves out there if they really blow our socks off with their launch product they will get all the publicity they need and their player base will grow rapidly. likewise if they made a huge fuss about everything they were gonna offer and then their product was less then advertised they would see very little player growth. I think they have the right idea in keeping it quiet before launch. And if you disagree i think youre an idiot. peace.
-Kyle
How much money does it take to update your own personnal website? Thought so. And please don't tell me that it's because they're dedicating their time to programming the game.
The past weeks have showed us how amateur they are in their buisness practices, and in programming the game.
Wake up ppl.
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
Had to be done
My sentiments EXACTLY. The proof is in the pudding, or in this case the empty pudding bowl.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
My sentiments EXACTLY. The proof is in the pudding, or in this case the empty pudding bowl.
proof of what ?
We know the game is good, we know the game is playable.
What are u getting at ?
This is their strategy:
We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out.
U obviously dont agree, so go and make ur own MMO and market THAT how u please.
-Darkstar