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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes: Vanguard Re-Review

13

Comments

  • admriker4admriker4 Member Posts: 1,070

    I played Vanguard at launch. The game was unplayable so I cancelled immediately.

    I came back twice for free trials. I cancelled both times for the same reason....

    terrible combat animations

    Even world of warcraft has better animations than vanguard did. I guess i was spoiled with star wars galaxies pre-nge.

    Have they fixed them ? slash left and slash right was awful. In SWG I had spin moves, whirling, a cool move like a leg sweep, and more.

  • ctuttlectuttle Member Posts: 4
    Originally posted by admriker4


    I played Vanguard at launch. The game was unplayable so I cancelled immediately.
    I came back twice for free trials. I cancelled both times for the same reason....
    terrible combat animations
    Even world of warcraft has better animations than vanguard did. I guess i was spoiled with star wars galaxies pre-nge.
    Have they fixed them ? slash left and slash right was awful. In SWG I had spin moves, whirling, a cool move like a leg sweep, and more.



     

    I have NO idea what you are talking about or what game you are playing. Characters lunge, swing both directions, spin, leap in the air and attack....

    Again... not sure what game you were playing - or if you just tried to auto-attack your way through the game.

    image

  • trahetrahe Member UncommonPosts: 41

    I have been playing Vanguard for a little more than six months and I highly approve of this review article.  Job well done by the reviewer. 

    Vanguard is so incredibly huge that you can play many alts without ever doing the same quests.  I have ten Alts and each class and race is well done and fun to play.  All have some solo ability and some more than others, especially the healing classes.

    The classes are unique in their abilities and what they bring to the game.  I love playing a Disciple which is a martial artist healer because some of my hits heal me and my group.  I love playing a Ranger because they have great utility and their attacks are outstanding.

    Vanguard has:

    • Huge areas for exploration
    • Housing and some interior design posibilities using player made items
    • Mounts available on the mainland at level 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50.
    • Racial mounts than span the gammet from Foxes to turtles to scorpions to spiders to rhinos, etc....
    • Flying mounts for rent
    • Flying mounts (permanent) for higher level characters
    • Boats - Sloops, Caravels and Galleons
    • VERY clever quests
    • Multiple starting areas that give you backstory in the world

    I cannot say enough about the quests in this game.  They are clever, give you tons of backstory and role playing opportunities and offer insight into the crazy devs that helped make this game.

    When have you played a game that started you off as a bad guy and were ordered to kill villagers and monks?

    When have you played a game where a major organization asks you to lead befuddled farmers to a grist mill to grind them into animal food to hide the evidence that something went wrong?

    When have you played a game where you are giving an epic quest line that requires you to kill so many things that Hellhound-like Shadowhounds are attracted to you and eventually gives up one of their own to become your personal mount?

    Ok, ok, as you can tell I'm a fan but I'm honest enough to admit that there are still problems.  What is the worse one for me?  It's a graphic bug that pops up frequently which I call the "Stripper bug".  As you collect items pieces of your armor and even your weapons disappear.  You can get them back by re-equipping them or by zoning, but there's something disturbing about a Kojan character running around with a tan loincloth that is the same color as your character's skin.   However, my Halflings look pretty damn good when their breastplates disappear.  (wink)

  • kimmarkimmar Member Posts: 446
    Originally posted by Flirt

    Originally posted by gnomexxx


    No weather effects with Vista.  Am I the only one that this is semi-important to?  I went back and played again, and it was so disheartening to hear the weather but not be able to actually see it.  I dunno, to me at least, this is a major bug.  I like to explore worlds and see the cool stuff in them.  Not being able to see the weather was one of the main reasons I didn't resub. 

     

    I have vista and I see storm coming in, surroundings getting darker, trees swinging more vigorously and then the rain starts to pour in.

    Or at the Northern Border the snow flakes swinging down.

     

    I couldn't see the weather either.  Running Vista as well.

    =============================
    It all seems so stupid
    It makes me want to give up
    But why should I give up
    When it all seems so stupid

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,032

    I loved Vanguard prior to Beta 4. What happened in Beta 4 and what it launched as was comparably awful.

    I got into the beta either just before or just as Microsoft bailed and SOE became involved, and I thought it was fantastic at that time, bugs aside. Later in to the SOE era, they ironed out the worst of the bugs but meanwhile trashed just about everything I found appealing about the game: travelling, believable particle effects, broad-range character creation sliders, most of the hairstyles, the atmosphere of the best cities, several race/class combinations, and the fellowship system. Then Sigil closed and SOE swallowed the game whole. Stephen King couldn't have written this.

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: No MMOs since 2014. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • John.A.ZoidJohn.A.Zoid Member Posts: 1,531

    Still need to fix the ugly character models.

  • SiyahSiyah Member Posts: 131

    The one thing besides bugs and initial performance issues (which are mostly fixed i hear) that put me off everytime I launch the game is character animations. Running, walking is awful, and ruins (at least) my immersion factor. The rest is indeed very very good in most cases.

    image

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,032
    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    Still need to fix the ugly character models.

    I think the models are quite good.

    When they're scaled most of the way down and kept mostly naked.

    The trouble is that clothing/armor doesn't properly adjust to certain features, meaning that even if you have a male character with a well-proportioned upper torso or a female with firm, high breasts, as soon as you equip clothing/armor they appear to be a steroid abuser or a botox-laden grandma with AoC-style sagging DD udders.

    Acceptable for orcs. Ridiculous for elves and non-barbarian humans.

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: No MMOs since 2014. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • John.A.ZoidJohn.A.Zoid Member Posts: 1,531

    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.

     

    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.

  • MaendauronMaendauron Member Posts: 118
    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.
     
    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.



     

    No game is perfect, are you looking for perfect?  The animations are better than most games and quite beautifully drawn.  If you are looking for something more realistic then you might need to wait for the next generation of games.  They aren't sexy?  Get a girlfriend.......oh my god!

    So what game would you try?  That will be an interesting answer.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787

    I was bashing the game in a previous thread a few days ago and as a result of the banter I decided to give the game another go.

    Hmmm......now I have a sheepish grin on my face as I have actually been finding it quite enjoyable. There are still certainly things that I really dislike about the game but I am able to overlook them as its good qualities just about counter the bad ones.

    Firstly I really dont like the character models. They are certainly better than they used to be but they still look very strange to me. The list of sliders during character customisation is actually quite deceptive as a good portion of them dont really change much. I picked a dwarf as I have always been fond of the ale swigging fellows but also because they looked the least weird to me. However I just couldnt get much variety in the way he looked. Often in mmos its the hair style which makes you look different but unfortunately the available hairstyles in Vanguard are still extremely embarrassing to look at so I had little choice but to make him bald. Thankfully though I can hide his strangeness behind armour....well most of the time anyway.....and the armour I have found so far does look rather good. Plenty of detail. There are also 19 races and 15 classes to choose from so your quite spoilt for choice in this game. Unfortunately they all use the same model for the body which is a bit of a cop-out......and the anatomy of those models really needs some work. They really dont look right at all. The most obvious game that compares to this regarding the character models is EQ2. Vanguard has better graphics technically but the races in EQ2 look a hell of a lot better because each race has its own unique look and the anatomy is correct too. The art direction for the characters is just superior in EQ2.

    However the landscapes in Vanguard more than make up for it. The lighting works very well although I still encounter a bug which turns the screen black whenever I turn tone-mapping on in the graphics options which is a shame. I was disapointed that the review mentioned a problem with Vista that prevents weather effects from working. So basicly I am not getting the full visual effects that I could? Bollocks! I want to get caught in rainstorms and blizzards! Thats a real shame because I am able to run the game on maximum settings and it doent lag much at all.

    The graphics in Vanguard can be a bit hit or miss though. Someone else mentioned that certain parts of the gameworld actually dont look too great at all, like they have been slapped into the game in a hurry. There is quite a lot of this in the game which is a shame because it really detracts from the overall effect. I can be stood on a hill and have a marvelous view of the land and then I might look around and see log palisade that looks really bad or some very weak looking textures. I also find that the bad character models really clash with the landscape. In fact this is VERY noticeable. I get the impression that whoever worked on the landscapes of Vanguard were much more skilled than the guys that did the character models.

    I totally agree with the reviewers appraisal of the diplomacy sphere. It really is quite daft actually because there is literally no decision making or diplomacy in it. All you do is read a bunch of text and then move onto the next npc and read some more. There is nothing to actually participate in. You cant choose optional dialogue or effect the flow of the story or anything. The card game is sort of interesting but it doesnt really serve any purpose other than to stop you from reading the text. If you lose the card game then you can just start it again immediately which makes me wonder why its even in the game. Civic diplomacy is a bit more interesting as you can cause buffs to appear which effect the people around you. Basicly if you want the game to be an online book and enjoy playing a card game that isnt all that deep then diplomacy will be the thing for you. Having said all that there is a kind of addictive quality to it. Basicly its nice that its there as an option at least. Afterall you dont HAVE to level up through diplomacy.

    The other two spheres are more interesting. You still dont really get to make any noticeable choices about anything mind you but then thats the nature of these restricted story driven games unfortunately. Despite that I actually find the crafting quite involving and certainly much more intersting than other mmos.

    The adventuring sphere is obviously the main meat of the game. Combat can seem a bit clunky and didnt seem right at first but it grew on me after a while. There seem to be plenty of variety in the loot that drops although the respawn rates can be a bit fast on occasion. Creatures often faded back into existence within a minute on many occasions.

    There are indeed plenty of little glitches still in the game but nothing too drastic in my opinion....well not so afr anyway although I have heard of a number of bugs that are still causing some real hassles. I keep coming across odd little things, such as when I went to repair my stuff and it listed several items as costing 1869378336 copper to repair. Thankfully this was only a visual thing and it actually just cost a few copper (phew). Nothing game breaking for me so far though.

    The community seems ok to me so far and are mostly quite helpful in the chat channels.....well.....sort of anyway considering that there dont actually seem to be that many people around (I'm on Halgar). Naming conventions unfortuantely have been thrown out the window. I know this doesnt really matter as you get people with stupid names in any mmo but it just seems a shame to me as it detracts from the gameworld in my opinion. Its a bit like walking into a beautiful garden and then stubbing your cigarette out on the grass.

    The first players I saw when I logged into the game were called Flufffluff, Fluffyfluff and Fluffinette.......and yes they were were just as irritating and childish when I had the misfortune of speaking to them as well. Silly names along these lines seem to dominate the game from what I have seen so far. Also as with pretty much all PvE games I just havent had much incentive to play the game with anyone and just find myself doing it solo......but then its not surprising considering that PvE games are meant to be played against the computer anyway. PvE games like this are really just glorified stories and  the players that keep running past me may as well not be there most of the time lol.

    I am personally really looking forward to an mmo that allows me to have more direct involvement in the gameworld. There seems to be a lot of text telling me that things are happening and yet no opportunity for me to ACTUALLY do any of it myself. For example at the end of a quest an evil npc escaped by blasting some guards with some magic and the using some more magic to vanish. None of this actually really happened though......I just got a few paragraphs of text telling me it happened.

    However although Vanguard is just another static PvE gameworld that is only capable of telling me a story, it does actually do it quite well and it is at least very nice to look at. It has some pretty good features in it too. I would love to see these features get implemented into a more advanced mmo where I can actually do things but for now Vanguard is keeping me occupied and I'm not too bored with it just yet. I'm gonna have to take back my previous statements about the game and admit that it actually does the PvE storytelling things better than its competition. It does lack polish though so its gonna have a hard job bringing in new players.

    Oops.....wall of text hits for a zillion damage!

  • John.A.ZoidJohn.A.Zoid Member Posts: 1,531
    Originally posted by Maendauron

    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.
     
    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.



     

    No game is perfect, are you looking for perfect?  The animations are better than most games and quite beautifully drawn.  If you are looking for something more realistic then you might need to wait for the next generation of games.  They aren't sexy?  Get a girlfriend.......oh my god!

    So what game would you try?  That will be an interesting answer.



     

    Something that appeals to me.....



    Starcraft

    Warcraft

    Diablo

    Half-Life

    GTA

     

     

  • marzguitarzmarzguitarz Member Posts: 39

    I love this game but I still feel that I won't return until they spend some ad money to attract a new player base.

  • bobfishbobfish Member UncommonPosts: 1,679

    Re-subscribed for the second time this last Wednesday. Have to say its been a blast, rolled a new character, did the Isle of Dawn and joined a friendly guild.

    Whilst it is a little daunting leaving the IoD, there are plenty of quest hubs to hit, Veskal's is a good place to go from IoD for example and it will lead you on to other quest hubs.

    What has been the most fun is some good old fashioned dungeon crawling though. A small group of us hitting a dungeon and doing the quests related to it have shot us up through the levels and given hours of great fun. I forgot just how good VG's gameplay is and am sure I will stick with it for longer this time.

  • boojiboyboojiboy Member UncommonPosts: 1,553

    Good review.. I've played Vanguard for 2 years.. I don't think there is a better PvE MMO out there.  And the community is second to none.

    The only part of the review that I would disagree with is stating lack of end-game raid content.  Unless someone is in an ultra-hard-core guild it's hard to imagine that anyone has finished all the raid content.

  • qombiqombi Member UncommonPosts: 1,170

    I loved the initial vision of Vanguard but that vision doesn't exist now. The new developers made drastic changes to the game that keeps me away. I just wanted bugs to be fixed, not change how hard the mobs were or the class design of some classes completely. Also they dumbed down travel and there are some serious lore breaking issues.

    I did try the game around a year ago and I came upon a quest giver in a mountain. I accept the quest but keep thinking as I go to turn in that somehow I have gotten lost because I swore the NPC was in the wrong location. Come to find out they made multiple copies of the quest npc throughout the whole cave?!

    It was the most absurd thing I have every seen in a rpg. I could literally see the same npc at one time in two instances at the same time... talk about immersion breaking. I quit right then, if this is some of the design solutions this dev team comes up with, I don't want a part of it. That wasn't a decision made to fit into the game, that was just sloppy to have the same npc in 4 - 6 different locations in the mountain. Who wants to play a game where the devs do not care if something they do fit in the world.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Maendauron

    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.
     
    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.



     

    No game is perfect, are you looking for perfect?  The animations are better than most games and quite beautifully drawn.  If you are looking for something more realistic then you might need to wait for the next generation of games.  They aren't sexy?  Get a girlfriend.......oh my god!

    So what game would you try?  That will be an interesting answer.



     

    Yeah no game is perfect....so....ermrm.....whats your point exactly? He never said that the game had to be perfect. Why are you bashing him for making an honest and critical observation of the game? Stop being so touchy and defensive. Sorry but your response is typical of the Vanguad community in general and ties in perfectly with what Stephanie said about it in her review. Fans of the game just cant accept a single bad word to be said about it even when its a true and constructive comment.

    John Zoids post is absolutely spot on. The character models are one of the worst aspects of Vanguard. They completely clash with the rest of the game which looks rather good. In an mmo its important that the players avatar looks good as the player will be looking at it all the time. Nobody wants an ugly character but unfortunately thats what you get in Vanguard. In fact the models are one of the things which drives people away from playing the game. Its the first thing a new player sees when they log into the game and first impressions count for a lot.

    SOE introduced the new soga models into Everquest 2. They were'nt just slightly altered versions of the previous ones. They were totally new versions and they looked fantastic. They REALLY need to do the same with Vanguard......more so in fact because Vanguards models are much worse than EQ2s original avatars. Unfortunately I doubt this is ever going to happen because I get the impression that it would mess around with the way armour looks when worn. Like John Zoid accurately pointed out, every player model in Vanguard is the same. The only thing that is different is the head. Humans, Goblins, Dwarves, Elves, Wolfmen, Orcs and so on should not have the same anatomy but in Vanguard they do. What makes this even worse is the fact that the anatomy of the duplicated models is totally wrong. Whoever made them really had no idea what they were doing. Compare this to EQ2 where every individual race looks unique and is anatomicly correct.

    If SOE wants more people to come and play Vanguard then they need to totally change those ugly models. By leaving them as they are they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be really good if they could make each race look unique (as they should) but failing that they should at the very least fix the anatomy of the body. It really should not be that difficult considering there is effectively only ONE player avatar in the entire game! John Zoid was right about the animal races too. They really do look very stupid indeed. Compare them with the models in EQ2 if you disagree.

    I am currently playing the game and quite liking it BUT those messed up character models are really getting to me. They are a glaring eye sore on what is otherwise a rather good looking game. I am putting effort into overlooking it but many people dont have the patience for it and will simply move on to games where they can create a character that they like.

    Also the Vanguard community in general doesnt help much. It has a reputation for being extremely stuck up and many people refuse to play the game because of this. Its fine to like and support a game you are playing but its another thing to completely dismiss anyone who doesnt sing its praises. You have to accept the fact that Vanguard isnt a very popular game so its obvious that things still need to be improved. People ARE going to talk about these things so it really doesnt help when they get shot down in flames for doing so. In other words.....stop burying your head in the sand and smell the fresh air of reality! This doesnt apply to everyone of course as there are plenty of mature and helpful people in the game.

    Conclusion = Totally replace the character models. Try and make each race look unique if possible. At the very least fix the messed up anatomy (yeah SOE that means employing someone who understands the human form....even if you are going to apply that "human form" to every race in the game) and improve their currently stiff animations. Combat animations are better than before but when they stand still they look stiff as a board (they look like they have a stick shoved up their arses!). Also the faces really need lots of improvement because as John Zoid said they look really plastic and vacant......no life in them at all. Also.......fix those god damn ugly hair styles! Sorry but they look atrocious! Finally the starter gear does look very poor but this isnt so important as you wont keep it for long.

    Do this and more players will come. Ignore the player avatars and Vanguard will simply continue to stagnate.

  • banthisbanthis Member Posts: 1,891

    Vanguard has a lot of features PVE wise that attract me..the problem is.....the frame rate.  No matter what setting I use...my frame rate drags just enough it gives me a headache and makes my eyes bleed.  A friend of mine can't even play the game.  It lets her make characters but the moment she tries to load into the world she crashes to desktop.

    Needless to say the game is still heavily incompatible (in my opinion) with random computers.  I'd blame SOE but really the game was left in a POOR state by its original designers & developers thanks to Piss Poor Management.  EQ2 is a gorgeous game and I never have those issues.  If they threw out Vanguard's engine and used the EQ2 engine I'd subscribe in a heartbeat.  Or if quite simply EQ2 had Vanguard's Options that'd be a match made in heaven. 

    Vanguard atleast game design wise is everything that EQ2 should of been.  It just suffers from a crap graphics engine that randomly hates on computers regardless of power.

  • banthisbanthis Member Posts: 1,891
    Originally posted by neonwire




     If SOE wants more people to come and play Vanguard then they need to totally change those ugly models. By leaving them as they are they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be really good if they could make each race look unique (as they should) but failing that they should at the very least fix the anatomy of the body. It really should not be that difficult considering there is effectively only ONE player avatar in the entire game! John Zoid was right about the animal races too. They really do look very stupid indeed. Compare them with the models in EQ2 if you disagree.



     

    ....Yes...the humans have muzzles, fur and tails and fuzzy pointed ears! They all look the same! ...seriously thats the most wacked out thing I've ever heard.   The races dont' have enough variety I agree as in ..Fox People tend to look like all the Other Fox people since there isn't a huge choice in fur color / eye color.  But its rather distinct whos' a fox, who's a human, and who's an orc.

    Considering the game has performance issues and random crashes still due to the graphics engine adding MORE weight to it would just make it worse.  Thats why they scaled back the models last year in the first place.  The engine simply can't handle it.

  • finnmacool1finnmacool1 Member Posts: 453

    My how time flys,already time for another of these "hey guys come back vanguard is the best pve game out there" posts. They finally have it in a somewhat playable state but it is far from the best out there. There are still so many broken quests/skills/abilities, etc it isnt funny.

    All anyone really needs to know about vanguard is that it will never have the subs required to make it a worthwhile game. $oe will never invest more than is required to keep it on life support and most gamers wont settle for paying a full price sub for a subpar game. Vanguard will continue to limp along with its sad population and meager server count only as long as station pass remains viable for $oe.

  • AlienovrlordAlienovrlord Member Posts: 1,525

    Considering this game was the textbook definition of an over-hyped, trainwreck launch, it's impressive they're managing to keep it afloat.   Personally I'm not interested in such a PvE game but it is good seeing developers providing their community with a playable game.  Perhaps Vanguard might also become a textbook definition of how to save a game that endured incompetent management during development.   

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by banthis

    Originally posted by neonwire




     If SOE wants more people to come and play Vanguard then they need to totally change those ugly models. By leaving them as they are they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be really good if they could make each race look unique (as they should) but failing that they should at the very least fix the anatomy of the body. It really should not be that difficult considering there is effectively only ONE player avatar in the entire game! John Zoid was right about the animal races too. They really do look very stupid indeed. Compare them with the models in EQ2 if you disagree.



     

    ....Yes...the humans have muzzles, fur and tails and fuzzy pointed ears! They all look the same! ...seriously thats the most wacked out thing I've ever heard.   The races dont' have enough variety I agree as in ..Fox People tend to look like all the Other Fox people since there isn't a huge choice in fur color / eye color.  But its rather distinct whos' a fox, who's a human, and who's an orc.

    Considering the game has performance issues and random crashes still due to the graphics engine adding MORE weight to it would just make it worse.  Thats why they scaled back the models last year in the first place.  The engine simply can't handle it.



     

    As John Zoid and myself clearly explained, every avatar in Vanguard uses the exact same model for the BODY. No not the head.....but the body. Maybe you should do a bit of basic research on anatomy yourself because I'm pretty sure that the "muzzle" and "fuzzy pointed ears" (lovingly highlighted in red for your ease of reference) can be commonly found on a creatures head. As I pointed out it is only the head which is unique to each race. The body is identical for every race.

    Fur. Thats a texture. SOE did of course use textures as best as they could to try and seperate the races. Thats a good thing of course but the underlying model and the messed up anatomy which comes with it still remain identical between each race.

    Tails. Sorry to break this to you but none of the animal avatars have any tails so you are completely wrong. In fact none of the avatars have ANY additional features to set them apart. Normally people say this to me but now it is my turn to say it to someone else........here it comes........do you actually play the game?

    So to recap.......all the models used for the BODIES of all avatars in Vanguard are identical. The only things which seperate the races are the textures and the heads.

    But yes you are correct that you can tell what race someone is. However that fact was never in dispute. If it wasnt for the different heads then you would never be able to tell the difference. In other mmos you can tell at a glance what race someone is because their anatomy is different.

    Regarding the performance issues and random crashes......well.....actually its pretty stable now. I think they should now focus their efforts on the avatars. Oh and fixing those models will NOT put more pressure on the servers. I agree that it might put more pressure on the servers if they made the anatomy of each model unique to each race but as I said in my previous post I dont think that would be neccessary (although it would be nice).

    However as there is only ONE model that gets used for the BODY of every race then changing it would not put any extra stress on the servers as no additional models would be getting added. They would simply be changing the "universal body model" which actually should not require a huge amount of work.....as there is only one model to change afterall. As I stated before though none of this might even be possible in Vanguard as it might have been badly made from the beginning.....there may well be technical reasons that prevent them from changing the anatomy of the body models too much (eg armour & clothing graphics). They were able to drasticly improve the character models in EQ2 but then that game was probably built in a better way that allowed the changes to occur.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Alienovrlord


    Considering this game was the textbook definition of an over-hyped, trainwreck launch, it's impressive they're managing to keep it afloat.   Personally I'm not interested in such a PvE game but it is good seeing developers providing their community with a playable game.  Perhaps Vanguard might also become a textbook definition of how to save a game that endured incompetent management during development.   



     

    Yeah I agree it is actually quite impressive that this game is still alive considering its launch. I'm not a big fan of these limited story telling PvE games either so I'm not really all that bothered if the game is still running next year or not as I will (hopefully) be playing one of the newer mmos which finally (again hopefully) takes better advantage of the online aspect of gaming (eg meaningful pvp through factionsl warfare, meaningful crafting, city building etc). I'm finding it kind of interesting at the moment though and certainly hope the game continues to improve.

  • eburneburn Member Posts: 740

     The ugly character models was one of the reasons I couldn't stick with the game before. Are they still rudementary? I thought they were specifically adding new models to the game?

    I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.

  • MaendauronMaendauron Member Posts: 118
    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Maendauron

    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.
     
    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.



     

    No game is perfect, are you looking for perfect?  The animations are better than most games and quite beautifully drawn.  If you are looking for something more realistic then you might need to wait for the next generation of games.  They aren't sexy?  Get a girlfriend.......oh my god!

    So what game would you try?  That will be an interesting answer.



     

    Yeah no game is perfect....so....ermrm.....whats your point exactly? He never said that the game had to be perfect. Why are you bashing him for making an honest and critical observation of the game? Stop being so touchy and defensive. Sorry but your response is typical of the Vanguad community in general and ties in perfectly with what Stephanie said about it in her review. Fans of the game just cant accept a single bad word to be said about it even when its a true and constructive comment.

    John Zoids post is absolutely spot on. The character models are one of the worst aspects of Vanguard. They completely clash with the rest of the game which looks rather good. In an mmo its important that the players avatar looks good as the player will be looking at it all the time. Nobody wants an ugly character but unfortunately thats what you get in Vanguard. In fact the models are one of the things which drives people away from playing the game. Its the first thing a new player sees when they log into the game and first impressions count for a lot.

    SOE introduced the new soga models into Everquest 2. They were'nt just slightly altered versions of the previous ones. They were totally new versions and they looked fantastic. They REALLY need to do the same with Vanguard......more so in fact because Vanguards models are much worse than EQ2s original avatars. Unfortunately I doubt this is ever going to happen because I get the impression that it would mess around with the way armour looks when worn. Like John Zoid accurately pointed out, every player model in Vanguard is the same. The only thing that is different is the head. Humans, Goblins, Dwarves, Elves, Wolfmen, Orcs and so on should not have the same anatomy but in Vanguard they do. What makes this even worse is the fact that the anatomy of the duplicated models is totally wrong. Whoever made them really had no idea what they were doing. Compare this to EQ2 where every individual race looks unique and is anatomicly correct.

    If SOE wants more people to come and play Vanguard then they need to totally change those ugly models. By leaving them as they are they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be really good if they could make each race look unique (as they should) but failing that they should at the very least fix the anatomy of the body. It really should not be that difficult considering there is effectively only ONE player avatar in the entire game! John Zoid was right about the animal races too. They really do look very stupid indeed. Compare them with the models in EQ2 if you disagree.

    I am currently playing the game and quite liking it BUT those messed up character models are really getting to me. They are a glaring eye sore on what is otherwise a rather good looking game. I am putting effort into overlooking it but many people dont have the patience for it and will simply move on to games where they can create a character that they like.

    Also the Vanguard community in general doesnt help much. It has a reputation for being extremely stuck up and many people refuse to play the game because of this. Its fine to like and support a game you are playing but its another thing to completely dismiss anyone who doesnt sing its praises. You have to accept the fact that Vanguard isnt a very popular game so its obvious that things still need to be improved. People ARE going to talk about these things so it really doesnt help when they get shot down in flames for doing so. In other words.....stop burying your head in the sand and smell the fresh air of reality! This doesnt apply to everyone of course as there are plenty of mature and helpful people in the game.

    Conclusion = Totally replace the character models. Try and make each race look unique if possible. At the very least fix the messed up anatomy (yeah SOE that means employing someone who understands the human form....even if you are going to apply that "human form" to every race in the game) and improve their currently stiff animations. Combat animations are better than before but when they stand still they look stiff as a board (they look like they have a stick shoved up their arses!). Also the faces really need lots of improvement because as John Zoid said they look really plastic and vacant......no life in them at all. Also.......fix those god damn ugly hair styles! Sorry but they look atrocious! Finally the starter gear does look very poor but this isnt so important as you wont keep it for long.

    Do this and more players will come. Ignore the player avatars and Vanguard will simply continue to stagnate.



     

    Firstly it's interesting that you feel the need to defend him.  Secondly I wasn't being touchy about the game.  I enjoy it and play it for what it is.  My response to his post was in fact the point that he made in regard to the character models.  I was asking what games he's been playing that are in fact more realistic?  His point seemed petty and yet all games are lacking in the department of what the characters look like.  So as he was only pointing this out for Vanguard I decided to respond to it.



    That is what a forum is for isn't it?  We are allowed to disagree on points?

    So people only care what avatars look like? Why then do they play LOTRO and WoW?  They aren't any better.

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