If Staples didn't have the thing Trademarked, WOW would come with a "that was easy" button built right in.
Since release Blizzard has conciously decided to cater to the large, casual player market and address their complaints, and making top level gear available to all players has been increasing part of the game with every release.
Another expansion or two and they'll probably give starter characters Tier 10 gear to level in.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know...it really doesn't matter if WOW is easy or not. It has a very high population, has won tons of awards for game design and creation, and is highly respected throughout the game developer and MMO community (outside of upset hardcore raiders with a large voice that are upset that the game caters to casuals over them). The simple fact is this: WOW is doing fine, millions of players are enjoying it and until the game starts having massive amount of people leave (sorry the top few percentages of hardcore raiders are not large amounts of people), then Blizzard is doing the right thing. Insult WOW or its players all you want, but in the end we are enjoying the game, we are happy with the game we play and truly, for the real gamer at heart, that is all that matters. I thinks its time for a lot of the elitist MMO crowd to get off their soapbox and realize that WOW is fun, lots of people play it (doesn't matter if its 100k or 10 million) and WOW is designed for the people that play it just like EVE is designed for the people that play it, and the same with LOTRO, Darkfall and Runes of magic. People need to learn to accept that every game is not designed with them personally in mind and learn that insulting the players of that game does not make it any different. it is truly sad the levels of hate and insults that some posters in this forum have taken this discussion; actually referring to WOW players as ignorant, second class citizens or weak minded. I hope I am never at a level where I have to insult others to make myself feel better. I have come to accept that not every game out there is designed with me in mind and its up to me, as a mature adult, to decide what game I want to play. I can be happy not insulting players of other games, I just wish others could treat WOW players the same way. But in the end, it doesn't matter. We have the game we love and we enjoy it. And that is all that truly matters if you really love playing games.
Very well said Templarga, unfortunately alot of posters here will never accept these simple truths.
Not sure where the data comes from, about assuming its valid, then that is my point about the "easiness of WOW." 60% of players haven't downed Malygos. 88% haven't downed Heroic Malygos. 65% haven't cleared Naxx. 65% haven't cleared heroic Naxx. And as you guess, even less have done the 3 drake thing. Sorry but none of that is even close to a majority of the players (10 percentage points is not statistically close). When the numbers drop well below 50% then we have an argument. But again assuming those numbers are valid (I would like to see the source), the WOW being easy for the majority of players is an invalid argument.
Wowjutsu and wowprogress can't tell the difference between a lvl 80 pvp guild or a lvl 80 alt guild.
What they ares aying is that 35% of EVERY SINGLE guild in NA/EU with a lvl 80 in it has done heroic KT. And dont forget these sites take a long time to update.
Count in Asia and thats 4+ million players. I'm sorry, but 4 million players have a right to decent content. You can sit there and say ALL content should be designed for braindead casuals but if WoW lost 4 million subscibers the big wigs at Vivendi-Universal would be at Blizzard's HQ wanting answers.
Raiders still makeup a decent percentage of this game. While you might not want them playing Blizzard does.
If Staples didn't have the thing Trademarked, WOW would come with a "that was easy" button built right in. Since release Blizzard has conciously decided to cater to the large, casual player market and address their complaints, and making top level gear available to all players has been increasing part of the game with every release. Another expansion or two and they'll probably give starter characters Tier 10 gear to level in.
This whole thread is just sad. Very few people in the world has the time and attention to play hardcore. It is silly to require people to learn a dungeon wipe after wipe.
Easy or not, WOW dungeons are FUN. Each boss has some special abilities and many have scripted events. And you do have to learn the pattern.
It is obvious that the casual players are the future of the gaming industry. Just look at all the SP. They are all pretty easy.
Easy mode on COD5 does not make the game unfun. The point is that people should be able to enjoy the content, and not just the challenge.
Plus, WOW is not as easy as it looks. Yeah, you can down teh bosses but try to top the dps charts .. that requires reading theorycraft, optimizing gear and spell rotations. it is not rocket science but it is also not a cake walk. A game like WOW should never cater to the very few hardcore gamers.
In fact, they should take the LOTRO route and make some solo-able or dual-able instances.
You know...it really doesn't matter if WOW is easy or not. It has a very high population, has won tons of awards for game design and creation, and is highly respected throughout the game developer and MMO community (outside of upset hardcore raiders with a large voice that are upset that the game caters to casuals over them). The simple fact is this: WOW is doing fine, millions of players are enjoying it and until the game starts having massive amount of people leave (sorry the top few percentages of hardcore raiders are not large amounts of people), then Blizzard is doing the right thing. Insult WOW or its players all you want, but in the end we are enjoying the game, we are happy with the game we play and truly, for the real gamer at heart, that is all that matters.
The thread never questioned WoW's success, nor have I or most of the people posting in here.
Infact anyone arguing that WoW isn't successful is moron. But it doesn't change the fact that WoW has since release become extremely easy and casual friendly.
For most people its not a bad thing, but for some of us, it is
And as for your comment, I don't doubt you love WoW and never have. 10+million people obviously love WoW and sometimes I'm one of them. But as I have stated continuously throughout this intire thread is that it is simply too easy of a game.
And why you continue to make this an argument of "Oh you elitists blah blah blah, we enjoy wow get over it"
Originally posted by templarga I have come to accept that not every game out there is designed with me in mind and its up to me, as a mature adult, to decide what game I want to play. I can be happy not insulting players of other games, I just wish others could treat WOW players the same way.
Please stop with your logic and maturity Templarga.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Wow is the only MMORPG where PvP weapons and PvP gear are based on a rated ladder system.
No wins, no decent PvP gear. Yes it is that hard. It is so hard most don't dare to enter, because the embarassing results are even shown on the armory. So it has the hardest PvP in ANY mmorpg. Because your losses are ... displayed on the WWW. Arena made the blind followers and no lifers in PVE look soar. It is indeed embaressing showing off that legendary weapon with a 1478 Arena rating isn't it ? No doubt about that. Grtz to all who obtain the seasonal gladiator titles: less than 0.5%. Less than 0.5%, yep, and still the trolls say it is easy.
Sorry, but EVE takes the prize on that one. You can spend a month getting that uber ship, only to have it blown up in seconds... and unlike WoW, once it's gone - it's gone. To add further insult to the injury, your loss will most likely be posted on some killboard where people will laugh over your 2 billion ISK fail boat. As a result, a lot of people don't even dare enter low-sec in EVE.
In WoW you can at least enter a BG and be relatively anonymous... and with the burst damage going on... you don't even need PvP gear to blast people. Once a bunch of people target you, you'll go down... resil or not.
Agree 100% about EVE.
Back to WoW, the problem with resilience is the stat was thrown in by blizzard haphazardly. Unlike say hit rating, which for non-dual wield caps at 262, you typically need 700+ resilience to begin to notice returns on your enchant/gem investments. The absurd amount of resilience you need means you are taking away from other stats.
WoW is a very easy MMO. Their is absolutely no facet of the game that is overly difficult. That's not a bad thing as it makes the game fun, enjoyable, and accesible for a lot of people.
For the Record:
WoW Easy mode = Paladin Healers.
WoW Hard mode = All other Healing Classes.
Midnight-ShadowWorld of Warcraft CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 88
I think what blizzard needs to do now is find a balance between the casual raiding and the hardcore raiding. they have done a good job with the 10-man and 25-man raids in wrath but the fact is, on my server anyway, you have people farming 25-man naxx on alts. blizzard also made the mistake of making the heroics too easy at the start, then increasing the difficulty of them just recently. this means that those who were quick off the mark (the hardcore raiders) got their gear and first badges really easily, but those slower to level 80 (the casual raiders) now have to fight alot harder in order to gear up. the heroics are still do-able without any cc or anything but it takes alot more to clear them than before (I actually have to concentrate now when healing heroics on my full epic'ed priest). its just too little too late, especially with many hardcore raiders not needing to run heroics anymore for badges, loot or rep.
what blizzard needs to do now is bring the difficulty of heroics down, and the difficulty of raids up (or just the 25-man raids)
I think what blizzard needs to do now is find a balance between the casual raiding and the hardcore raiding. they have done a good job with the 10-man and 25-man raids in wrath but the fact is, on my server anyway, you have people farming 25-man naxx on alts. blizzard also made the mistake of making the heroics too easy at the start, then increasing the difficulty of them just recently. this means that those who were quick off the mark (the hardcore raiders) got their gear and first badges really easily, but those slower to level 80 (the casual raiders) now have to fight alot harder in order to gear up. the heroics are still do-able without any cc or anything but it takes alot more to clear them than before (I actually have to concentrate now when healing heroics on my full epic'ed priest). its just too little too late, especially with many hardcore raiders not needing to run heroics anymore for badges, loot or rep. what blizzard needs to do now is bring the difficulty of heroics down, and the difficulty of raids up (or just the 25-man raids)
PVE Raid content in WotLK:
Downing bosses is ONE thing.
To do the Raid achievements of WotLK Raids is a complete other matter.
Only 0.2% of all rading guilds could do the final achievements in WotLK Raids after 3 months (and believe me they try).
On my server they still try to do the top 5 highest Raid achievements, but ... fail.
Go see what the situation is on your server in the heroic Raid achievements and then let's talk.
Also Blizzard said already that in the new Raid content of patch 3.1, the same politics will be used: the HARDCORE Raiders should focus on achievements and getting titles, while the mere mortals can set their own max.
BTW: I always preferred titles and mounts before loot, because loot lasts ... 6 months and titles always give the prestige - even after 3 years - .
Running a 10.000 meter should be cool for everyone, but running it in heavy conditions and with a set time, that's the new challenge.
So everyone can see ALL content, but only the excellent ones will get the titles and prestige - as should be -.
I think this sums it up briliantly and reflects why Wrath is so good - the hardcore have stuff that they can go 'ner ner we got this' but NOT at the expense of the people who dont care/cant get it done. We all get the same content and can take out own challenges from it. I guild from horde on my server got the 'No deaths in 1 naxx' thign with the drake reward. Epic moment seeing 25people stand around the FP in dala and then all mount at once. You knew they were damned happy and had achieved something worthy that loot simply wouldnt reward
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Those who think WoW is easy haven't done the raid achievements, or have allowed themselves to pick easier roles (DPS with no responsibilites). Try picking a healing class, or a tank, together with raid leader and guild responsibility roles.
You'll have more challenge than you can possibly handle.
I used to lead the 72 man raids of EQ's PoP era, so I should know.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I remember doing 72 man raids of the Manaetic Behemoth in Plane of Tactics. Just to get a flag that let me.. zone into a different tier zone. Ah, raiding memories....
As for Wrath, Blizz seemed to realize that they were spending all this time making Naxx but very very few people got to see it pre-BC. Since they don't want some content "barred" from everyone, they made 10/25 man versions of the same raid. So Joe Casual can say he downed Kel'thuzad too (10man) while Jake Hardcore can say he downed Kel'thuzad 25 man with <insert achievement here>. Makes both players happy. Happy Players keep subscribing.
Personally I wish they would add something in the 60 under game. Need to freshen up the experience for those wanting to level up alts. Bad enough the 58-68 is going to be the same ol' Outland.
I have a few question for those of you who thinkg World of Warcraft is easy compared to other MMOs:
#1: In every single game I've played, a "raid" encounter was only as difficult as finding the specified number of people to defeat the encounter who had the patience to get a bare minimum of gear (usually much lower than fully geared via the previous level of "raid" encounters), could act in a coordinated mannner (not be a complete idiot), and were willing/able to play? Is there a game out there that offers more of a challenge than that? To date, every raid encounter I've done was subject to the weakest link in the raid, not the design of the raid or mechanics involved.
#2: How many of you are blind to the fact that every MMO in the game has generally gotten "easier", defined by requiring less individual effort, as time progresses? In World of Warcraft, compare current class structures in the game to how they were at level 70? Level 60? Remember when the Horde didn't have Paladins, which included Blessing of Kings and Sanctuary.
#3: As a sort of follow on, remember when part of the "challenge" was farming for days to get resist gear that existed only as random green drops. Remember when the entire raid needed stacks upon stacks of resist potions. Is it really a "challenge" to require people to farm materials to defeat an encounter?
Edit:
Something else to consider. How many of you "learned" to raid via WoW and haven't tried anything else? Its one thing to say WoW is easy compared to everything else, its another thing to say WoW is easy compared to X (insert specific raid boss of another MMO you killed while at an equivalent level for it).
Achievements are no substitute for real, challenging content. You can meta-game any pasttime you like to make it more interesting... why do you think gambling on sports is so fun? But quit with this achievements make the game hard.... really no one cares at all about titles unless specifically going after that title themselves... anything else is another grand display of naive terminal uniqueness.
The lengths you guys go to to defend the flaws of Wotlk are unbelievable.
I am sure this will ruffle your feathers enough to report this post or something....
When people say WoW is easy, they are comparing it to other MMO's. If you never played any other MMO besides WoW you have no frame of reference to base comparisons off on.
I played EQ1 long time ago. As I have told people here, and in WoW, unless you played that game you have No Concept of what raiding is like. EQ1 had no mods, addons, voice chat or anything to assist with raiding. Some raids took 72 people to do for the sole goal of getting a "key" to enter another tier raid zone. In WoW terms, imagine that getting BWL attuned required killing Ragnaros and talking to a gnome that spawned for 5 mins after he died.
Now I do not want to sound like i am cheapening people's raiding accomplishments in WoW. Far from it. To do sunwell before the nerf required significant raiding skills in WoW. I have however, seen raids that take 10 hours to do a full run in EQ1 so , to me, WoW raiding is "easier".
ive been gone since about nov 24. and im wondering what makes wotlk so easy to gear up in? ill take easy gear all i like to do is kill people anyway.
Wotlk is easy because, it only takes 1-2 weeks from 70 to get to 80 if ur geared right playing about 2 hrs a day. Blizz also made the raids easier to complete, and dumbed down the game even more, such as making crit and spell the same thing.
Crit and +spell are not the same thing.
And the 'fast and easy' thing is highly subjective. If you play casually, do not rush and take time to try new content in WotLK you have months of stuff to do before hitting 80.
Wow is the only MMORPG where PvP weapons and PvP gear are based on a rated ladder system.
No wins, no decent PvP gear.
Yes it is that hard. It is so hard most don't dare to enter, because the embarassing results are even shown on the armory.
So it has the hardest PvP in ANY mmorpg. Because your losses are ... displayed on the WWW.
Arena made the blind followers and no lifers in PVE look soar.
It is indeed embaressing showing off that legendary weapon with a 1478 Arena rating isn't it ?
No doubt about that.
Grtz to all who obtain the seasonal gladiator titles: less than 0.5%.
Less than 0.5%, yep, and still the trolls say it is easy.
You know that you can get all epic pvp gear from PVE 25 man badge? Thats pretty much how most ppl will get it .
To the OP : WoW is easy as crap now . I played my feral druid for about 3 week since 80 and i already have 9 80 epic and others are blues , i can aoe tank any heroic easy in fact ive done em all . I have puged 10 man naxx too it was my first time and we 1 shoted most boss beside 4 horsemen . Ive puged 10/25 man vault wich is basically free loot . I did a pug 10 man OS wich was a total joke and i got my t7 glove out of it and i heard 25 man version is not really harder .
So ya everything is super easy these days . If you think WOTLK is any hard you are a skilless player .
You know that you can get all epic pvp gear from PVE 25 man badge? Thats pretty much how most ppl will get it .
To the OP : WoW is easy as crap now . I played my feral druid for about 3 week since 80 and i already have 9 80 epic and others are blues , i can aoe tank any heroic easy in fact ive done em all . I have puged 10 man naxx too it was my first time and we 1 shoted most boss beside 4 horsemen . Ive puged 10/25 man vault wich is basically free loot . I did a pug 10 man OS wich was a total joke and i got my t7 glove out of it and i heard 25 man version is not really harder .
So ya everything is super easy these days . If you think WOTLK is any hard you are a skilless player .
So another super boy because he has ... 9 purples.
LOL
FACTS:
1. Only 0.2% of ALL Raider guilds got the Achievements list of WotLK Raids after 100 days ...
2. LESS than 0.5% of ALL PvP players will get the Gladiator title in WotLK.
3. Only 0.000001% of ALL PVP players will get the Deadly Gladiator title in WotLK.
4. Only 3 people out of 11.500.000 players will get the first title and price money of the 200.000(!) dollars price money of the Arena competition that started on Feb 17th.
Thats all true, but I mean depending on server there are usually about 4000 players fighting for Arena position, your highlander argument that there can only be one person at the top is sort of a no brainer.
So Where are YOU standing in doing these WotLK Raids? or PvP?
This is the situation on my server today for the NAX 25 Raid achievements even today ...
Naxx is a scrub run, of course you know that already, most pro guilds and decent guilds can afford to skip it.
Glory of the Raider0.0%
The Dedicated Few0.0%
The Immortal0.0%
So out of 10.000 no one got the Raider title yet on my full server (as is the case in the vast majority of servers btw).
As long as you do NOT belong to the overall EU/US 0.5% of Raiding OR PvP players who could do this, you are not with the big boys that can speak about "easy".
Certainly ... not because these numbers above are ONLY about quality of play and NOT about "playing time".
Everyone can have a walk in the 10.000 meters but - just like any other sports or cultural activity - you play WotLK the "easy" way or the "hard way'.
It is CHILDISH to think you can compare yourselves with Carl Lewis just because you can run a 100 meter.
"Running the 10.000 meter is easy", yaeh as a free way lazy sunday walker. Not IF you want to belong to the top PVE and top PvP players of Wow.
And with 11.500.000 players I know THIS game is the reference if I want to get titles I can play for. And I certainly will play a game that will last.
I target the lesser titles - in my range - like Rival or Conqueror, but al least I know I am in THE game to get them.
And btw - present day GOOD MMORPG's are ALL about status and titles...Gear is just a means to defend yourselves and is usless after 6 months.
WotLK is a further step above "the old MMORPG grinding things" of times long past.
Because status counts in mmorpg's and are no longer merely expressed in purples. (get that to your thick Wow hating heads).
All your really doing is stating titles and achievements again, not just titles top performers per server, and then the top 5% of the top pvpers, on the other hand you have about 2000 players per server nearing or passing 1900+ before it starts to fall off, most of those are DK pally set ups who never had gotten that high before but thats another topic.
I think status and titles and most of all Naxx matter more to you than most people who play wow, you find importance in trivial aspects of the game and are obsessed with a noob dungeon run for some reason.
Getting the gear you need to do what you want does not require any pvp effort, and im sure the achivement scores would be higher if you actually needed them to get good gear, most are content to do a 3 day run and overgear their toon do some facerolling in BGs and maybe try and get a stable Arena team together.
The fact that gear is so easy to get makes status a non argument.
Your also confusing wow is easy with top performers in the game, just because its easy and an army of DKs faceroll to 1900+ or better and raiding is a cakewalk to gear, doesn't mean the really great players wont abuse the system even more than a casual player would. If its easy for a casual after all, the real hardcore players might as well be cheating.
Again ( most ) of your data above is correct, but it doesn't matter just because there has to be a winner doesn't mean many other people did very well. Your just Parsing the arguement Rush Limbaugh style to push an invalid argument.
Well the raiding mechanics in EQ1 and WoW differ greatly.
First off there is the buffs. WoW you get a fort, mow and blessing. Maybe a shadow resist and spirit buff. That's about it and then everyone eats/drinks and is full and Ready to Go in 30 secs. In EQ1, Clerics have mulitple buffs to gives, then the shamans, the druids, the paladins, the shadowknights, the enchanters, etc. Bards would be "twisting" songs based off of which group they are in. Then people ... sit. No drinking to regain mana, you sit down and your mana regen increases a bit. Buffing in WoW takes a couple mins tops, in EQ1 can take 15-20mins.
Next there is the fact that WoW bosses are instanced and EQ1's are not. It hasn't happened often but I have been part of a raid that wiped, only to come back and find that another raid picked up after us and got the kill. People would have to check if bosses were up or not.
As I said before not using mods or addons really changed how a raid works. EQ1 no voice, no mod telling you "10 secs til boss AoE fire wall", you had to pay attention at all times.
So if someone never played any MMO except WoW then they have no frame of reference. They will simply say "raiding now is easier than raiding pre-bc", which is true. However compairing WoW raiding to that of EQ1/2, DAoC and others, you realize that WoW raiding has never been that "hard" to begin with. Investing time is all you need, just less time is needed now than before with 40 mans.
The pre-gear up checks also have been diminished with each patch/expansion.
You can hit level 80, take your quest blue gear you are wearing and walk into 10 or 25 man Naxx and get Epics in the same HOUR.
Outside of raiding, they have added more and more quests that are easier and easier to accomplish. TBC made 60-70 easier than 40-58, that's why they had to go back and add things and tune XP gains, etc.
Then with WotLK they made level 70-80 even easier than 60-70 was. Basically a bunch of newbie starter zone quest hubs strung together in each zone. I literally got to 80 playing 2 hours a day after 2 weeks. (over all, I took a month off at level 75 because it was just so damn boring and too easy to keep me engaged)
Now I hear the new Dungeon coming in patch 3.1 is suppose to be 'harder'. Which means you just have to have more gear from Naxx before you can walk in. Which means, they will nerf it 30 - 60 days after it launches because of all the whiners who can't get 'Naxx geared up' that still want to PUG end game content.
My 8 year old girl owns battlegrounds and has for a couple years now. It just proves the game is built for the masses and has been tuned down to keep the common computer owner engaged. I still keep an account active so I can play with my daughter on the weekends, but other than that - the game is too easy now. It was too easy when it was launched, but still tolerable. Now it's just beyond ridiculous. My Daughter completed the entire Death Knight quest line in 3 hours. She didn't even have to read the quests most the time and doesn't use mods to help her.
That was also the last straw for me. They took what should have been an awesome class and made it the new Joke of MMOs. I liked it in EQ when I played a Shadow Knight and people thought I was a gimp class until I showed them the power of a Shadow Knight played by someone with a brain.
The pre-gear up checks also have been diminished with each patch/expansion. You can hit level 80, take your quest blue gear you are wearing and walk into 10 or 25 man Naxx and get Epics in the same HOUR. Outside of raiding, they have added more and more quests that are easier and easier to accomplish. TBC made 60-70 easier than 40-58, that's why they had to go back and add things and tune XP gains, etc. Then with WotLK they made level 70-80 even easier than 60-70 was. Basically a bunch of newbie starter zone quest hubs strung together in each zone. I literally got to 80 playing 2 hours a day after 2 weeks. (over all, I took a month off at level 75 because it was just so damn boring and too easy to keep me engaged) Now I hear the new Dungeon coming in patch 3.1 is suppose to be 'harder'. Which means you just have to have more gear from Naxx before you can walk in. Which means, they will nerf it 30 - 60 days after it launches because of all the whiners who can't get 'Naxx geared up' that still want to PUG end game content. My 8 year old girl owns battlegrounds and has for a couple years now. It just proves the game is built for the masses and has been tuned down to keep the common computer owner engaged. I still keep an account active so I can play with my daughter on the weekends, but other than that - the game is too easy now. It was too easy when it was launched, but still tolerable. Now it's just beyond ridiculous. My Daughter completed the entire Death Knight quest line in 3 hours. She didn't even have to read the quests most the time and doesn't use mods to help her. That was also the last straw for me. They took what should have been an awesome class and made it the new Joke of MMOs. I liked it in EQ when I played a Shadow Knight and people thought I was a gimp class until I showed them the power of a Shadow Knight played by someone with a brain.
Two obvious questions: Your daughter of 8....
What's her PvP rating in Arena? 1300,1400,1500, or perhaps 2200 and having the Brutal gladiaor title soon ?
Is she in a raiding guild that has the WotlK Raider title? 0.2 % of all Raiders worldwide.
I doubt she is, then again most hardcore guilds skip this, it's like I said before an ENTRY level dungeon. NAXX
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Reread what I said above: We have 1 million times now, same BS as before.
Playing Wow is simple. Being GOOD at it is hard.
Being good according to you is racking up achivements no matter how useless, I doubt many use your theory of advancement in game.
Just like Ballroom dancing, darts, soccer, sprinting a 100 meter, skating . Everybody can do this. It is only when you want to be with the BEST... things get hard.
Playing Wow leisurely is good, Nice it is ONE way of playing it. But that's only one way.
Thinking that doing some greenie quests in open world IS Wow these days, is thinking that your daughter can also get an Olympic medal on the 100 meters.
Well what he was really saying was how easy finishing the game content was, and how level 1-80 is nothing these days. But you missed that I think.
The GRADING system build into WotLK these days - both in PVE (Achievement Raids) and PvP (Arena ladder system) assures the going gets very HARD at the top.
BTW? Did EQ or any other early MMO had these GRADING systems in its dungeons ?
What grading system are you referring to? Most games have or had some kind of ladder, in this regard your misguided thinking wow is unique.
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Wow is a GAME. And it is good it can be played leisurely. At the same time it can take ages to master it in Arena or being in a good grouping guild and down the scripted bosses ... on the build-in hard modes.
I think you need to replace it with I you seem to have a harder time with it than most.
It is scalable now. From green world quests for your little girl, or for daddy who wants to play with his friends in a friendly 5 men dungeon.
Or obnoxious pricks who think the falling off a mountain achivement or the Murloc costume achivement which many couldn't possibly have are important.
At the same time... 0.2% Raiders got the Raider Title and the room for the one and only champion of 200.000 players (Brutal Gladiotor) is STILL an option.
Yes you cant clear NAXX we get it. Stupid Raider title lol.
What a nice alternative for SOOO many different kind of players isn't it?
Basically you just posted the same identical post again, same rehash of NAXX, your imaginary grading system, and this time you even managed to insult some guys kid.
Could you come up with some NEW BS? Posting the same book over and over again in some attempt to get people to believe in this brand of Fanboi Elitism is absurd at this point.
Could you come up with some NEW BS? Posting the same book over and over again in some attempt to get people to believe in this brand of Fanboi Elitism is absurd at this point.
By grading system of the Raids I mean that:
Some bosses in WotlK have several different kinds of difficulty.
You don't seem to understand this/
Oh sir does understand, the fact that most average guilds can cakewalk them on every level despite what you think makes raiding EZ mode.
You have Sartharion the 10 men version, the 25 men version and within EACH version you have the zero, one, two or three Twilight Drakes up version to do.
That's 8 grades of difficulty - from easy to hard and rather very hard. That's a tool to check the guilds and how far they are up the "ladder".
This is expressed by the % of Raiding guild btw/ At the moment the HARDEST version of this boss alone was done by 8.1% of all world wide raiding guilds (on my server it is 4.3%).
You completely missed this from the beginning/ Downing "a boss" is no longer the SOLE achievement of old Wow.
Blizzard made them scalable and so can do a rating system. NOT based on "time sinks" but on skill.
With the title of 0.2% Raiders of WotLK they can show who can do ALL of these "difficult" fights in the end.NAXX
Again basing your argument on a Starter instance that most guilds don't need or skip. the only reason it's done is for the Achivement in the first place.
Making a very nice competition for your guild (outside of the individual assembling of Tier gear) and making for the limited "first ever" competition far more intersting PER server AND worldwide.
And the nicest thing in THIS Raid achievement system: it is NO time sink (there are NO Raid achievements for doing 200 times a boss or something. Only group skill counts. And like I showed you on most servers the average for this boss alone is between 4 and 8 %/
I wonder how many 8 year olds are in that group anyway.
0.2% still for the total Raid achievements of all raiding guilds.... Do you have the Raider title already?
No total Raid achievements even for Heroic are 75% not 0.2, but I'll correct your inaccuracy again.
As it is based on skill, it should be no problem ....
Just write NAXX really big next time. This is absurd and the 4th or 5th time youve cut and pasted nearly identical responses. Your numbers are wrong and your logic is flawed, theres no point in this.
Comments
What makes it so easy is poor design.
If Staples didn't have the thing Trademarked, WOW would come with a "that was easy" button built right in.
Since release Blizzard has conciously decided to cater to the large, casual player market and address their complaints, and making top level gear available to all players has been increasing part of the game with every release.
Another expansion or two and they'll probably give starter characters Tier 10 gear to level in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Very well said Templarga, unfortunately alot of posters here will never accept these simple truths.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Wowjutsu and wowprogress can't tell the difference between a lvl 80 pvp guild or a lvl 80 alt guild.
What they ares aying is that 35% of EVERY SINGLE guild in NA/EU with a lvl 80 in it has done heroic KT. And dont forget these sites take a long time to update.
Count in Asia and thats 4+ million players. I'm sorry, but 4 million players have a right to decent content. You can sit there and say ALL content should be designed for braindead casuals but if WoW lost 4 million subscibers the big wigs at Vivendi-Universal would be at Blizzard's HQ wanting answers.
Raiders still makeup a decent percentage of this game. While you might not want them playing Blizzard does.
Hear, hear!
/train
This whole thread is just sad. Very few people in the world has the time and attention to play hardcore. It is silly to require people to learn a dungeon wipe after wipe.
Easy or not, WOW dungeons are FUN. Each boss has some special abilities and many have scripted events. And you do have to learn the pattern.
It is obvious that the casual players are the future of the gaming industry. Just look at all the SP. They are all pretty easy.
Easy mode on COD5 does not make the game unfun. The point is that people should be able to enjoy the content, and not just the challenge.
Plus, WOW is not as easy as it looks. Yeah, you can down teh bosses but try to top the dps charts .. that requires reading theorycraft, optimizing gear and spell rotations. it is not rocket science but it is also not a cake walk. A game like WOW should never cater to the very few hardcore gamers.
In fact, they should take the LOTRO route and make some solo-able or dual-able instances.
The thread never questioned WoW's success, nor have I or most of the people posting in here.
Infact anyone arguing that WoW isn't successful is moron. But it doesn't change the fact that WoW has since release become extremely easy and casual friendly.
For most people its not a bad thing, but for some of us, it is
And as for your comment, I don't doubt you love WoW and never have. 10+million people obviously love WoW and sometimes I'm one of them. But as I have stated continuously throughout this intire thread is that it is simply too easy of a game.
And why you continue to make this an argument of "Oh you elitists blah blah blah, we enjoy wow get over it"
well, I have no idea.
Please stop with your logic and maturity Templarga.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Sorry, but EVE takes the prize on that one. You can spend a month getting that uber ship, only to have it blown up in seconds... and unlike WoW, once it's gone - it's gone. To add further insult to the injury, your loss will most likely be posted on some killboard where people will laugh over your 2 billion ISK fail boat. As a result, a lot of people don't even dare enter low-sec in EVE.
In WoW you can at least enter a BG and be relatively anonymous... and with the burst damage going on... you don't even need PvP gear to blast people. Once a bunch of people target you, you'll go down... resil or not.
Agree 100% about EVE.
Back to WoW, the problem with resilience is the stat was thrown in by blizzard haphazardly. Unlike say hit rating, which for non-dual wield caps at 262, you typically need 700+ resilience to begin to notice returns on your enchant/gem investments. The absurd amount of resilience you need means you are taking away from other stats.
WoW is a very easy MMO. Their is absolutely no facet of the game that is overly difficult. That's not a bad thing as it makes the game fun, enjoyable, and accesible for a lot of people.
For the Record:
WoW Easy mode = Paladin Healers.
WoW Hard mode = All other Healing Classes.
I think what blizzard needs to do now is find a balance between the casual raiding and the hardcore raiding. they have done a good job with the 10-man and 25-man raids in wrath but the fact is, on my server anyway, you have people farming 25-man naxx on alts. blizzard also made the mistake of making the heroics too easy at the start, then increasing the difficulty of them just recently. this means that those who were quick off the mark (the hardcore raiders) got their gear and first badges really easily, but those slower to level 80 (the casual raiders) now have to fight alot harder in order to gear up. the heroics are still do-able without any cc or anything but it takes alot more to clear them than before (I actually have to concentrate now when healing heroics on my full epic'ed priest). its just too little too late, especially with many hardcore raiders not needing to run heroics anymore for badges, loot or rep.
what blizzard needs to do now is bring the difficulty of heroics down, and the difficulty of raids up (or just the 25-man raids)
PVE Raid content in WotLK:
Downing bosses is ONE thing.
To do the Raid achievements of WotLK Raids is a complete other matter.
Only 0.2% of all rading guilds could do the final achievements in WotLK Raids after 3 months (and believe me they try).
On my server they still try to do the top 5 highest Raid achievements, but ... fail.
Go see what the situation is on your server in the heroic Raid achievements and then let's talk.
http://www.wowjutsu.com/world/
Also Blizzard said already that in the new Raid content of patch 3.1, the same politics will be used: the HARDCORE Raiders should focus on achievements and getting titles, while the mere mortals can set their own max.
BTW: I always preferred titles and mounts before loot, because loot lasts ... 6 months and titles always give the prestige - even after 3 years - .
Running a 10.000 meter should be cool for everyone, but running it in heavy conditions and with a set time, that's the new challenge.
So everyone can see ALL content, but only the excellent ones will get the titles and prestige - as should be -.
I think this sums it up briliantly and reflects why Wrath is so good - the hardcore have stuff that they can go 'ner ner we got this' but NOT at the expense of the people who dont care/cant get it done. We all get the same content and can take out own challenges from it. I guild from horde on my server got the 'No deaths in 1 naxx' thign with the drake reward. Epic moment seeing 25people stand around the FP in dala and then all mount at once. You knew they were damned happy and had achieved something worthy that loot simply wouldnt reward
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Those who think WoW is easy haven't done the raid achievements, or have allowed themselves to pick easier roles (DPS with no responsibilites). Try picking a healing class, or a tank, together with raid leader and guild responsibility roles.
You'll have more challenge than you can possibly handle.
I used to lead the 72 man raids of EQ's PoP era, so I should know.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I remember doing 72 man raids of the Manaetic Behemoth in Plane of Tactics. Just to get a flag that let me.. zone into a different tier zone. Ah, raiding memories....
As for Wrath, Blizz seemed to realize that they were spending all this time making Naxx but very very few people got to see it pre-BC. Since they don't want some content "barred" from everyone, they made 10/25 man versions of the same raid. So Joe Casual can say he downed Kel'thuzad too (10man) while Jake Hardcore can say he downed Kel'thuzad 25 man with <insert achievement here>. Makes both players happy. Happy Players keep subscribing.
Personally I wish they would add something in the 60 under game. Need to freshen up the experience for those wanting to level up alts. Bad enough the 58-68 is going to be the same ol' Outland.
I have a few question for those of you who thinkg World of Warcraft is easy compared to other MMOs:
#1: In every single game I've played, a "raid" encounter was only as difficult as finding the specified number of people to defeat the encounter who had the patience to get a bare minimum of gear (usually much lower than fully geared via the previous level of "raid" encounters), could act in a coordinated mannner (not be a complete idiot), and were willing/able to play? Is there a game out there that offers more of a challenge than that? To date, every raid encounter I've done was subject to the weakest link in the raid, not the design of the raid or mechanics involved.
#2: How many of you are blind to the fact that every MMO in the game has generally gotten "easier", defined by requiring less individual effort, as time progresses? In World of Warcraft, compare current class structures in the game to how they were at level 70? Level 60? Remember when the Horde didn't have Paladins, which included Blessing of Kings and Sanctuary.
#3: As a sort of follow on, remember when part of the "challenge" was farming for days to get resist gear that existed only as random green drops. Remember when the entire raid needed stacks upon stacks of resist potions. Is it really a "challenge" to require people to farm materials to defeat an encounter?
Edit:
Something else to consider. How many of you "learned" to raid via WoW and haven't tried anything else? Its one thing to say WoW is easy compared to everything else, its another thing to say WoW is easy compared to X (insert specific raid boss of another MMO you killed while at an equivalent level for it).
OH pleeeeze.....
Achievements are no substitute for real, challenging content. You can meta-game any pasttime you like to make it more interesting... why do you think gambling on sports is so fun? But quit with this achievements make the game hard.... really no one cares at all about titles unless specifically going after that title themselves... anything else is another grand display of naive terminal uniqueness.
The lengths you guys go to to defend the flaws of Wotlk are unbelievable.
I am sure this will ruffle your feathers enough to report this post or something....
When people say WoW is easy, they are comparing it to other MMO's. If you never played any other MMO besides WoW you have no frame of reference to base comparisons off on.
I played EQ1 long time ago. As I have told people here, and in WoW, unless you played that game you have No Concept of what raiding is like. EQ1 had no mods, addons, voice chat or anything to assist with raiding. Some raids took 72 people to do for the sole goal of getting a "key" to enter another tier raid zone. In WoW terms, imagine that getting BWL attuned required killing Ragnaros and talking to a gnome that spawned for 5 mins after he died.
Now I do not want to sound like i am cheapening people's raiding accomplishments in WoW. Far from it. To do sunwell before the nerf required significant raiding skills in WoW. I have however, seen raids that take 10 hours to do a full run in EQ1 so , to me, WoW raiding is "easier".
Wotlk is easy because, it only takes 1-2 weeks from 70 to get to 80 if ur geared right playing about 2 hrs a day. Blizz also made the raids easier to complete, and dumbed down the game even more, such as making crit and spell the same thing.
Crit and +spell are not the same thing.
And the 'fast and easy' thing is highly subjective. If you play casually, do not rush and take time to try new content in WotLK you have months of stuff to do before hitting 80.
Wow is the only MMORPG where PvP weapons and PvP gear are based on a rated ladder system.
No wins, no decent PvP gear.
Yes it is that hard. It is so hard most don't dare to enter, because the embarassing results are even shown on the armory.
So it has the hardest PvP in ANY mmorpg. Because your losses are ... displayed on the WWW.
Arena made the blind followers and no lifers in PVE look soar.
It is indeed embaressing showing off that legendary weapon with a 1478 Arena rating isn't it ?
No doubt about that.
Grtz to all who obtain the seasonal gladiator titles: less than 0.5%.
Less than 0.5%, yep, and still the trolls say it is easy.
You know that you can get all epic pvp gear from PVE 25 man badge? Thats pretty much how most ppl will get it .
To the OP : WoW is easy as crap now . I played my feral druid for about 3 week since 80 and i already have 9 80 epic and others are blues , i can aoe tank any heroic easy in fact ive done em all . I have puged 10 man naxx too it was my first time and we 1 shoted most boss beside 4 horsemen . Ive puged 10/25 man vault wich is basically free loot . I did a pug 10 man OS wich was a total joke and i got my t7 glove out of it and i heard 25 man version is not really harder .
So ya everything is super easy these days . If you think WOTLK is any hard you are a skilless player .
So another super boy because he has ... 9 purples.
LOL
FACTS:
1. Only 0.2% of ALL Raider guilds got the Achievements list of WotLK Raids after 100 days ...
2. LESS than 0.5% of ALL PvP players will get the Gladiator title in WotLK.
3. Only 0.000001% of ALL PVP players will get the Deadly Gladiator title in WotLK.
4. Only 3 people out of 11.500.000 players will get the first title and price money of the 200.000(!) dollars price money of the Arena competition that started on Feb 17th.
Thats all true, but I mean depending on server there are usually about 4000 players fighting for Arena position, your highlander argument that there can only be one person at the top is sort of a no brainer.
So Where are YOU standing in doing these WotLK Raids? or PvP?
This is the situation on my server today for the NAX 25 Raid achievements even today ...
Naxx is a scrub run, of course you know that already, most pro guilds and decent guilds can afford to skip it.
Glory of the Raider0.0%
The Dedicated Few0.0%
The Immortal0.0%
So out of 10.000 no one got the Raider title yet on my full server (as is the case in the vast majority of servers btw).
As long as you do NOT belong to the overall EU/US 0.5% of Raiding OR PvP players who could do this, you are not with the big boys that can speak about "easy".
Certainly ... not because these numbers above are ONLY about quality of play and NOT about "playing time".
Everyone can have a walk in the 10.000 meters but - just like any other sports or cultural activity - you play WotLK the "easy" way or the "hard way'.
It is CHILDISH to think you can compare yourselves with Carl Lewis just because you can run a 100 meter.
"Running the 10.000 meter is easy", yaeh as a free way lazy sunday walker. Not IF you want to belong to the top PVE and top PvP players of Wow.
And with 11.500.000 players I know THIS game is the reference if I want to get titles I can play for. And I certainly will play a game that will last.
I target the lesser titles - in my range - like Rival or Conqueror, but al least I know I am in THE game to get them.
And btw - present day GOOD MMORPG's are ALL about status and titles...Gear is just a means to defend yourselves and is usless after 6 months.
WotLK is a further step above "the old MMORPG grinding things" of times long past.
Because status counts in mmorpg's and are no longer merely expressed in purples. (get that to your thick Wow hating heads).
All your really doing is stating titles and achievements again, not just titles top performers per server, and then the top 5% of the top pvpers, on the other hand you have about 2000 players per server nearing or passing 1900+ before it starts to fall off, most of those are DK pally set ups who never had gotten that high before but thats another topic.
I think status and titles and most of all Naxx matter more to you than most people who play wow, you find importance in trivial aspects of the game and are obsessed with a noob dungeon run for some reason.
Getting the gear you need to do what you want does not require any pvp effort, and im sure the achivement scores would be higher if you actually needed them to get good gear, most are content to do a 3 day run and overgear their toon do some facerolling in BGs and maybe try and get a stable Arena team together.
The fact that gear is so easy to get makes status a non argument.
Your also confusing wow is easy with top performers in the game, just because its easy and an army of DKs faceroll to 1900+ or better and raiding is a cakewalk to gear, doesn't mean the really great players wont abuse the system even more than a casual player would. If its easy for a casual after all, the real hardcore players might as well be cheating.
Again ( most ) of your data above is correct, but it doesn't matter just because there has to be a winner doesn't mean many other people did very well. Your just Parsing the arguement Rush Limbaugh style to push an invalid argument.
Well the raiding mechanics in EQ1 and WoW differ greatly.
First off there is the buffs. WoW you get a fort, mow and blessing. Maybe a shadow resist and spirit buff. That's about it and then everyone eats/drinks and is full and Ready to Go in 30 secs. In EQ1, Clerics have mulitple buffs to gives, then the shamans, the druids, the paladins, the shadowknights, the enchanters, etc. Bards would be "twisting" songs based off of which group they are in. Then people ... sit. No drinking to regain mana, you sit down and your mana regen increases a bit. Buffing in WoW takes a couple mins tops, in EQ1 can take 15-20mins.
Next there is the fact that WoW bosses are instanced and EQ1's are not. It hasn't happened often but I have been part of a raid that wiped, only to come back and find that another raid picked up after us and got the kill. People would have to check if bosses were up or not.
As I said before not using mods or addons really changed how a raid works. EQ1 no voice, no mod telling you "10 secs til boss AoE fire wall", you had to pay attention at all times.
So if someone never played any MMO except WoW then they have no frame of reference. They will simply say "raiding now is easier than raiding pre-bc", which is true. However compairing WoW raiding to that of EQ1/2, DAoC and others, you realize that WoW raiding has never been that "hard" to begin with. Investing time is all you need, just less time is needed now than before with 40 mans.
The pre-gear up checks also have been diminished with each patch/expansion.
You can hit level 80, take your quest blue gear you are wearing and walk into 10 or 25 man Naxx and get Epics in the same HOUR.
Outside of raiding, they have added more and more quests that are easier and easier to accomplish. TBC made 60-70 easier than 40-58, that's why they had to go back and add things and tune XP gains, etc.
Then with WotLK they made level 70-80 even easier than 60-70 was. Basically a bunch of newbie starter zone quest hubs strung together in each zone. I literally got to 80 playing 2 hours a day after 2 weeks. (over all, I took a month off at level 75 because it was just so damn boring and too easy to keep me engaged)
Now I hear the new Dungeon coming in patch 3.1 is suppose to be 'harder'. Which means you just have to have more gear from Naxx before you can walk in. Which means, they will nerf it 30 - 60 days after it launches because of all the whiners who can't get 'Naxx geared up' that still want to PUG end game content.
My 8 year old girl owns battlegrounds and has for a couple years now. It just proves the game is built for the masses and has been tuned down to keep the common computer owner engaged. I still keep an account active so I can play with my daughter on the weekends, but other than that - the game is too easy now. It was too easy when it was launched, but still tolerable. Now it's just beyond ridiculous. My Daughter completed the entire Death Knight quest line in 3 hours. She didn't even have to read the quests most the time and doesn't use mods to help her.
That was also the last straw for me. They took what should have been an awesome class and made it the new Joke of MMOs. I liked it in EQ when I played a Shadow Knight and people thought I was a gimp class until I showed them the power of a Shadow Knight played by someone with a brain.
Two obvious questions: Your daughter of 8....
What's her PvP rating in Arena? 1300,1400,1500, or perhaps 2200 and having the Brutal gladiaor title soon ?
Is she in a raiding guild that has the WotlK Raider title? 0.2 % of all Raiders worldwide.
I doubt she is, then again most hardcore guilds skip this, it's like I said before an ENTRY level dungeon. NAXX
--
Reread what I said above: We have 1 million times now, same BS as before.
Playing Wow is simple. Being GOOD at it is hard.
Being good according to you is racking up achivements no matter how useless, I doubt many use your theory of advancement in game.
Just like Ballroom dancing, darts, soccer, sprinting a 100 meter, skating . Everybody can do this. It is only when you want to be with the BEST... things get hard.
Playing Wow leisurely is good, Nice it is ONE way of playing it. But that's only one way.
Thinking that doing some greenie quests in open world IS Wow these days, is thinking that your daughter can also get an Olympic medal on the 100 meters.
Well what he was really saying was how easy finishing the game content was, and how level 1-80 is nothing these days. But you missed that I think.
The GRADING system build into WotLK these days - both in PVE (Achievement Raids) and PvP (Arena ladder system) assures the going gets very HARD at the top.
BTW? Did EQ or any other early MMO had these GRADING systems in its dungeons ?
What grading system are you referring to? Most games have or had some kind of ladder, in this regard your misguided thinking wow is unique.
---
Wow is a GAME. And it is good it can be played leisurely. At the same time it can take ages to master it in Arena or being in a good grouping guild and down the scripted bosses ... on the build-in hard modes.
I think you need to replace it with I you seem to have a harder time with it than most.
It is scalable now. From green world quests for your little girl, or for daddy who wants to play with his friends in a friendly 5 men dungeon.
Or obnoxious pricks who think the falling off a mountain achivement or the Murloc costume achivement which many couldn't possibly have are important.
At the same time... 0.2% Raiders got the Raider Title and the room for the one and only champion of 200.000 players (Brutal Gladiotor) is STILL an option.
Yes you cant clear NAXX we get it. Stupid Raider title lol.
What a nice alternative for SOOO many different kind of players isn't it?
Basically you just posted the same identical post again, same rehash of NAXX, your imaginary grading system, and this time you even managed to insult some guys kid.
Could you come up with some NEW BS? Posting the same book over and over again in some attempt to get people to believe in this brand of Fanboi Elitism is absurd at this point.
By grading system of the Raids I mean that:
Some bosses in WotlK have several different kinds of difficulty.
You don't seem to understand this/
Oh sir does understand, the fact that most average guilds can cakewalk them on every level despite what you think makes raiding EZ mode.
You have Sartharion the 10 men version, the 25 men version and within EACH version you have the zero, one, two or three Twilight Drakes up version to do.
That's 8 grades of difficulty - from easy to hard and rather very hard. That's a tool to check the guilds and how far they are up the "ladder".
This is expressed by the % of Raiding guild btw/ At the moment the HARDEST version of this boss alone was done by 8.1% of all world wide raiding guilds (on my server it is 4.3%).
You completely missed this from the beginning/ Downing "a boss" is no longer the SOLE achievement of old Wow.
Blizzard made them scalable and so can do a rating system. NOT based on "time sinks" but on skill.
With the title of 0.2% Raiders of WotLK they can show who can do ALL of these "difficult" fights in the end.NAXX
Again basing your argument on a Starter instance that most guilds don't need or skip. the only reason it's done is for the Achivement in the first place.
Making a very nice competition for your guild (outside of the individual assembling of Tier gear) and making for the limited "first ever" competition far more intersting PER server AND worldwide.
And the nicest thing in THIS Raid achievement system: it is NO time sink (there are NO Raid achievements for doing 200 times a boss or something. Only group skill counts. And like I showed you on most servers the average for this boss alone is between 4 and 8 %/
I wonder how many 8 year olds are in that group anyway.
0.2% still for the total Raid achievements of all raiding guilds.... Do you have the Raider title already?
No total Raid achievements even for Heroic are 75% not 0.2, but I'll correct your inaccuracy again.
As it is based on skill, it should be no problem ....
Just write NAXX really big next time. This is absurd and the 4th or 5th time youve cut and pasted nearly identical responses. Your numbers are wrong and your logic is flawed, theres no point in this.