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Why can't we find MMOs as good as 'Back in the Day'...?
well easyly put companys nowa days serve the lil kiddes and all they care about are the flashy grafix or ripping off someone elses ideas...theres clones after clones trying to make that quick $ and no one is focusing on their "own" fresh ideas or sandbox type mmo's..it all about crappy pvp games or crappy wanna be sandbox titles that cant hold a flame to a great pvp game like shadowbane or even a great sandbox like EQ..they just want the kiddies to rip off daddys cred. cards and sign up for a 3mth sub. .. its sad really the MMO gamer world is slowly dieing
There is not much to compare in the "OLD DAYS".Everquest 1 was the only talked about game.FFXI was released before both EQ2 and WOW,but it was mainly a JPN project not really made to suit the N.American public.Back in those days MOST were still playing FPS'rs or Single player games,because in 2002,most still did not have DSL internet.So it has only been the last few years the genre has been swamped with a lot of junk,everyone is trying to cash in ,but there is no player base left to cash in on.
I would say about 90% had dsl come the launch of WOW,that is why they had the huge numbers,many wanted in on the MMO frenzy and WOW was the marketed game for the massive wave of new DSL players hitting the stream.
Now 55-60% of the player base is "locked" up in wow.I say LOCKED up because you know and i know ,that even a better game will not pry them from their maxed out players and their friendships.They may goof around in other games,but they will be back in wow and nothing has to do with the quality,just the time they put in,they are afraid to throw away.
I would say there is probably only 1 million or LESS REALLY looking for a new game.SO the developers are not really doing anything different or wrong,they just don't have the numbers to show improvement.In other words,where are the players going to come from?thin air?won't happen.You have maybe 200k hardcore PVP players looking for a game to suit them and 400k in each the middle of the pack and the PVE's.Not much of a market to strive for when developing a new game.Now we have the global market struggling,so things wil lnot get better right now,they may get worse.
As the costs go up,the developers are looking for cheaper and faster ways,this does not equal quality,expect it for the next several years,until the economy moves back up.Even then look at a developer like Blizzard.They have more money to work with than any of the others ,and what are they giving their fan base?? OLD rehashed garbage game engines and cartoon graphics...geesh how cheap can you get?Blizzard does not even CREATE any projects,they copied EQ,they are re hashing Star Craft,diablo 1/2/3/....105,,not much creation for a developer with loads of cash.
You think i am Bull s.....ing?look at Blizzard's new content coming up?can you say COPY FFXI?Dance battles!!! AHEM has Blizzard ever created anything?? and this is the developer that the majority are supporting? lol and you ask what is wrong?perhaps it is the player base that is wrong?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I will disagree with the general opinion here that considers nostalgia as the answer to the "why can't we find MMOs as back in the day" question. Nostalgia is for sure an important factor but not the most important.
After years reading mmo forums I've noticed the most remembered games are usually the same for many people. That wouldn't happend if nostalgia for your first MMO was the only factor. Those games must had something really good. It isn't just nostagia.
Some of those games (the most rememred ones) are: UO and the original SWG. And I think they had something in common that you actually can't find in the big titles nowadays: freedom.
Different opinions are welcome ;-)
Well, we might be older now and everything is less "fresh", but still WoW and all it's clones didn't do good for the mmorpg genre.
My 1st real entry in the mmorpg scene was with DAoC, and it was great, awesome community, real RvR, you were roleplaying withouth realising it, etc.
After a while they started to make mistakes and tried to copy the EQ elements of mmorpg more ( ToA ) , also they made the new frontiers for all the right reasons, but they changed too much too fast.
Either way, DAoC is a classic, and will always be the most fun I ever had in an mmorpg.
That doesn't mean that there are no other games that can get me excited, like when SWG released, it was a special game, it was a game where you could actually say that that was the direction mmorpg's should go, player interaction and dependancy, freedom, shaping of the world itself, etc.
If you look at the games now, DAoC got ruined by copying EQ and fixing things that didnt need fixing.
SWG, well it got ruined by copying WoW.
WAR should have been the spiritual successor to DAoC, but it became another WoW clone.
So the only 2 mmorpg's that excite me are EVE Online and Ryzom, because these devs stayed true to their ideals and slowly expanded upon the core game. ( Ryzom got some difficulties, but atm it is going well )
I do think it is possible that more games will be made that are up to my mmorpg standard, but I don't expect them to release anytime soon.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :http://mmodata.blogspot.be/Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
so many words nearly, really feel shock to read those long story
Originally posted by duran3d I will disagree with the general opinion here that considers nostalgia as the answer to the "why can't we find MMOs as back in the day" question. Nostalgia is for sure an important factor but not the most important.After years reading mmo forums I've noticed the most remembered games are usually the same for many people. That wouldn't happend if nostalgia for your first MMO was the only factor. Those games must had something really good. It isn't just nostagia.Some of those games (the most rememred ones) are: UO and the original SWG. And I think they had something in common that you actually can't find in the big titles nowadays: freedom.Different opinions are welcome ;-)
Add to that Asheron's Call and that about wraps up my best gaming experiences. I entered them all on launch (beta tested AC and SWG, though). Sure, they had freedom. They also had something games being pushed out today don't: A feeling of being in an actual other world. As far as I'm concerned the developers back then came from pencil & paper gaming roots (the detail of worlds and setting in AD&D campaign settings). They knew what world building was. It's more than just sticking a building on a mountain. It's also putting in the "why" that goes with it.
Todays developers most likely didn't play AD&D (if they played anything it was D&D 3.0 on) and Munchkin. They're only concerned with getting the building there and making sure the front door of said building opens and that the old hermit rattles out his quest line. Seldom is the time I bet that the devs that put him and the building there know why he's there, nor do they care.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0
I think you have a very good point. AC was my starting game and held my attention the longest, over 3 years. Even while I played SWG, I had my AC account active. I have betaed and played launch on a number of games, including CoH/CoV, SWG, EQII, EVE, LOTRO, Rome (lol), 2 Moons, Knights, WoW, Guild Wars... there is more, but can't for the life of me remember them all. Anyhow, the longest I was active and always compare to was AC, the one I see botched the most was SWG, the one I wished the most was LOTRO (it was fail), and the one I thought the best was EVE, but didn't stay after launch long and could never get back in due to large training times. As said before, AC felt like another world. SWG did a first, but after deve botches and nerfs, it lost its appeal, and LOTRO was always meh (pretty meh, but meh). EVE did really have another world feel, and I will constantly wish I didn't drop it right after release.
Major or Current CharactersAC - The Brute lvl 85 macer -HG (retired)SWG - Lihone Su'alkn Master Ranger/ MCH - Flurry (Retired)EVE - Sulone - Cruiser Lover (Retired)LOTRO - Sandric lvl 50 Burg (and others)- Brandywine (Retired) GW2 - Sandric lvl 80 Thief - Dragonbrand (Retired)NeverWinter - Sandric lvl 60 Rogue - Dragonshard (Retired)Archage - Sandric lvl 50 everything - Naima (Active)Others (Lots) (Retired)
The simple fact is that we have grown up. How awesome is any entertainment you liked 10 years ago. I dont still ride bikes in streets. I dont stay up all night watching Army of Darkness and drinking pepsi and eating popsicles. Hell, 90 percent of us dont even play the game that got us so hooked in the first place. Its not the games fault. Its my fault.
The tendency to overestimate past feelings due to the effects of nostalgia.
Enjoy today, cause tomorrow you'll miss it.
Originally posted by dinurium The simple fact is that we have grown up. How awesome is any entertainment you liked 10 years ago. I dont still ride bikes in streets. I dont stay up all night watching Army of Darkness and drinking pepsi and eating popsicles. Hell, 90 percent of us dont even play the game that got us so hooked in the first place. Its not the games fault. Its my fault.
If it's your fault that we can't find mmos as good as back in the day then i think a lot of people would like to hurt you! Haha j/k. I think its just that they were so new back in the day. It was a different experience than we had ever experienced before. Thats what made them so good. I remember the first time I saw Everquest. I thought it was the most amazing game ever. I would stay up late during school nights to play. I even played for 3 days straight one weekend when my parents were out of town. I was in love with that game but I dont still play it today. I'll admit I have resubbed a few times to go back and remember what I enjoyed so much. It's still a fun game but it's too big for me today. I get lost and have no idea where I am, but when I walk through all the old zones I used to remember it's like taking a nice long stroll down memory lane. I remember all the fun times I had and the changes that came along with it. Mainly the change from yelling out trades in Western Commonlands to having your character sit in the bazaar with all your loot for sell. I used to love trying to get deals in WC. But it all changed. Oh well...and we all move on. I guess now it's just finding that game that gives your the nostalgia that your first mmo gave you when you played it for the first time. Games today have a lot to live up to from past memories of what we thought was fun when we first started playing. I still think Everquest is the best MMO I have ever played. It may not be now but it sure has the most fun memories from any MMO I have ever played.
Originally posted by Goob The tendency to overestimate past feelings due to the effects of nostalgia. Enjoy today, cause tomorrow you'll miss it.
Well yes, and you just have to find your tastes. I know exactly what I want in an MMORPG.
- From Runescape it was the competition
- Final Fantasy XI it was the competition
- Tabula Rasa it was the gameplay, 100% incredible.
- EVE Online's economy
So, perhaps PvP.
The graphics of Final Fantasy XI, the subscriber status of WoW, the PvP of DoAC, the dream world of single player RPGs; storyline, the leveling system of SWG, the combat from Age of Conan, the fun, friendly, talkative community of EverQuest:
"So, I pray that Aion has them all" though I'll be dissapointed and therefore no MMORPG can live up to the hype, it's just no MMORPG can make 100% of the people happy, too many factors.
Though, I'm psyched about Star Wars: The Old Republic. I'd say I'd give up all of those for an MMORPG with a high subscriber status like WoWs and a NEW game. Therefore can't be WoW.
Aion and Star Wars: The Old Republic should do the trick.
I have to some extend the same problem if you could say so.
I think the biggest change is that new games today has become so easy, i get the feeling they hand everything to me, i dont even have to think. Quest givers have big marks over their heads, the map tells me where to go to accomplish the quest, i can already see what types of feats or spells i will recieve all the way through to lvl xxx, i can get from x to y in a coupple of minutes, one 'area or zone' doesnt last long enough, i have passed its level to quickly. So i find myself just mindlessly following the 'path' of the game like i'm watching a really crappy movie where you dont have to think at all.
Also, the second the game is released, there is already a ton of information on the net of walkthroughs and whatnot gizmos you can get, and gold sellers and macro dudes and people who are 'i made 10 levels in 34 minutes and 45 seconds'
It is also a lot about the rush to get to max lvl, when you and youre friends start to talk about that we have to take it easy now because we would like this zone to last a while longer, then there is something wrong in my opinion. Me and my friends hardly last long in a game any longer, we get too bored to quick and dont find any real challenge in the games anymore, it is like we have done this before.
So i have also been looking for the next thing that will get me hooked like the first game, witch was EQ1 or maybe Viking MUD even before that.
So i have set up some rules to follow by, and those are.
1. Dont buy a game at Launch.
2. If there is even the slightest sign that quest givers are blinking COME TALK TO ME! i will stay out of it.
3. If someone is level 80 or whatever within a few weeks, stay out of it.
4. If there is a lot of bugs going around, stay out of it.
5. If it is hyped beond belief, stay out of it.
What i believe i am looking for is a game that is so complicated that i got to use my brain cells to figure out what to do from the get go. A game where you have to interact with people, and i dont mean being in a guild where all you get in the chat is gratz when someone lvl. A game where you are dependant on other players to actually progress in the game. A game where pvp was the first thing the developers looked at, if not, screw pvp.
In EQ you had to be patient, i sat on my ass and was patient a whole lot in that game killing placeholders, and the day the guy you needed spawned, i was like a 7 year old on christmas day, Nowdays you walk up a hill and voila, the guy you need is standing right in front of you, you dont even need to search around or ask in local, just go where the arrow is pointed.
So for now i am playing EVE online, i have for the past 3 years, i have tried other MMO's like warhammer, tabula rasa, wow, EQ2, amongst others, and EVE is the only game that i have to actually use my brain a bit to figure out how to do stuff. EQ1 lasted for 6 years, maybe EVE will do the same, but i would like to have a fantasy MMO again that suits my needs.
And for the OP, if you are a hardcore Roleplayer in a game that depends on others to survive, take a look at ALFA - A Land Far Away, it is a brilliant little community of Never Winter Night 2 players. I have played it and you never know what will happend when you walk around there, in game GM's throw scenarios at you on the get go when these are online. Only little problem for me, was sitting in a tavern roleplaying for a few hours before we went out on a hunting party to investigate some ongoing event.
I never got back the feeling I had when I started playing an mmorpg. UO was my first back in 1997. I used to call in sick to get my blacksmithing up so I could put my name on items I made. I got so addicted to that game I ended up as a Grandmaster in everything.
Then it all went to hell with the introduction of Trammel. From that point on, they kept dumbing the game down until I quit.
Life in UO was ruthless. People could brake into your homes, steal from you while at the bank and kill you anytime in the wilderness.
You had your own home and could put in it as much as you wanted. Then they took that away and limited what you could put in there, plus you had to lock it down or it would disappear.
You had ships that you can travel and actually fight from. You could fight on your mounts.
Tame animals.....yes, everything you can think of with no leveling.
I then moved to DAoC and played that for years, but it never gave me the feeling I got in UO, pre-trammel.
I have played just about every mmorpg out there looking for that feeling, but none gave me what UO did. My first.