$OE doesn't get it, never has, never will. $OE Austin has totally revamped gameplay, now, 3 different times. (CU, NGE, C6CD) This time, they chose to revamp their entire business plan with TCG and the micro aspects it brings. TCG is getting about the same reception as all the other CHANGES have gotten them. Lost subs. Any1 who doesn't believe that SWG will be shut down at the launch of SW:TOR is kidding themselves. Even Smed set it up by using the specific word "sunset". It would be bad business practice for LA to have 2 competing MMOs out at the same time, expecially in this market. Sad, really. SWG could have been and was something special with it's Koster-esqe build, seamless worlds, player houseing, and sandbox. And maybe it's comeing, but I really doubt I'll be overjoyed when it does end. SWG ending also means an end to major sandbox MMOs and tells future development, just that..
Putting Chapter 6 in the same boat with the CU and NGE pretty much blows your credibility.
Why? After the CU/NGE, Chapter 6 is by far the most hated update to the game.
I have to ask why does it matter to anyone if a MMO shuts down if you don't play that game, do you just like seeing people lose something they enjoy (players) or something that puts a roof over their head and feeds the family (devs). Do you really have that much hate in you?
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
$OE doesn't get it, never has, never will. $OE Austin has totally revamped gameplay, now, 3 different times. (CU, NGE, C6CD) This time, they chose to revamp their entire business plan with TCG and the micro aspects it brings. TCG is getting about the same reception as all the other CHANGES have gotten them. Lost subs. Any1 who doesn't believe that SWG will be shut down at the launch of SW:TOR is kidding themselves. Even Smed set it up by using the specific word "sunset". It would be bad business practice for LA to have 2 competing MMOs out at the same time, expecially in this market. Sad, really. SWG could have been and was something special with it's Koster-esqe build, seamless worlds, player houseing, and sandbox. And maybe it's comeing, but I really doubt I'll be overjoyed when it does end. SWG ending also means an end to major sandbox MMOs and tells future development, just that..
Putting Chapter 6 in the same boat with the CU and NGE pretty much blows your credibility.
It was exactly the same thing, but to a much lesser extent. It showed very clearly they learned nothing from the CUNGE.
I have to ask why does it matter to anyone if a MMO shuts down if you don't play that game, do you just like seeing people lose something they enjoy (players) or something that puts a roof over their head and feeds the family (devs). Do you really have that much hate in you?
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I have to ask why does it matter to anyone if a MMO shuts down if you don't play that game, do you just like seeing people lose something they enjoy (players) or something that puts a roof over their head and feeds the family (devs). Do you really have that much hate in you?
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run. If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line. The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business. It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run. If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line. The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business. It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run. If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line. The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business. It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
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Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run. If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line. The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business. It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
YOU were the one who said they supposedly did this because they were not sustaining themselves. I explained that according to Smedley's own words, they were. Now you are moving the goalposts to justify their bad business decisions. Interesting. I'll play your game though, being the magnanimous sort that I am.
Growth is a great thing, and yes, is the goal of every business. So what? None of that has anything to do with whether or not you screw your current customers in the name of growth. Mature business people know that growth comes from building on your base and making the right decisions, not pissing on your base and acting emotionally out of envy.
The "had Smedley succeeded" argument is moot. There is no way he could have succeeded, and anyone who knew anything about business predicted this. We turned out to be right. Again it shows immaturity, and what happens when people who do not understand business run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers. I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge? I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
YOU were the one who said they supposedly did this because they were not sustaining themselves. I explained that according to Smedley's own words, they were. Now you are moving the goalposts to justify their bad business decisions. Interesting. I'll play your game though, being the magnanimous sort that I am.
Growth is a great thing, and yes, is the goal of every business. So what? None of that has anything to do with whether or not you screw your current customers in the name of growth. Mature business people know that growth comes from building on your base and making the right decisions, not pissing on your base and acting emotionally out of envy.
The "had Smedley succeeded" argument is moot. There is no way he could have succeeded, and anyone who knew anything about business predicted this. We turned out to be right. Again it shows immaturity, and what happens when people who do not understand business run businesses.
There are two reasons (among many I suppose) reasons that a company would do this. They were either NOT sustaining themselves or were not meeting their growth projections. If indeed they were sustaining themselves as per that quote then it was more than likely it was that they they needed more growth.
Whether or not a company or people in that company make smart decisions has nothing to do with maturity (and I am a bit suspect as to why you think that even figures into anything and why you keep throwing that around. If you want to argue as to what maturity is then that is another subject). We will assume that they have a modicum of maturity because of their age and position Does that mean they are the pinnacle of all that is mature? No of course not, but I highly doubt that people in their board meetings are sitting back, argueing and pulling the maturity card. Just because someone makes a business decision that you disagree with doesn't mean they are immature. Had they made this change AND succeded but disenfranchised a portion of their playerbase would this have been immature?
Immaturity has nothign to do with it. It is whether or not the business decision was a good one. Since they did not make the gains they wanted and disenfranchised a portion of the playerbase then it was not.
Still, companies do this. Look at the coke example. They tried it, it didn't work and they went back to orginal recipe. But then again their is conjecture that they did this for publicity's sake. (there was at the time a thought that the whole thing was planned out).
Apple moving over to OS X and then making the decision that they were not going to support OS 9 anymore also disenfranchised a portion of their customer base (and a good portioin at that) and forced them to either stay with OS 9 (unsupported), Move completely to OS X or not use their product anymore. And you know what? It was the right move as they believed that their product had a better future with the OS X platform regardless of the uproar of many customers.
You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
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There are two reasons (among many I suppose) reasons that a company would do this. They were either NOT sustaining themselves or were not meeting their growth projections. If indeed they were sustaining themselves as per that quote then it was more than likely it was that they they needed more growth. Whether or not a company or people in that company make smart decisions has nothing to do with maturity (and I am a bit suspect as to why you think that even figures into anything and why you keep throwing that around. If you want to argue as to what maturity is then that is another subject). We will assume that they have a modicum of maturity because of their age. Just because someone makes a business decision that you disagree with doesn't mean they are immature. Had they made this change AND succeded but disenfranchised a portion of their playerbase would this have been immature? Immaturity has nothign to do with it. It is whether or not the business decision was a good one. Since they did not make the gains they wanted and disenfranchised a portion of the playerbase then it was not. Still, companies do this. Look at the coke example. They tried it, it didn't work and they went back to orginal recipe. But then again their is conjecture that they did this for publicity's sake. (there was at the time a thought that the whole thing was planned out). Apple moving over to OS X and then making the decision that they were not going to support OS 9 anymore also disenfranchised a portion of their customer base (and a good portioin at that) and forced them to either stay with OS 9 (unsupported), Move completely to OS X or not use their product anymore. And you know what? It was the right move as they believed that their product had a better future with the OS X platform regardless of the uproar of many customers. You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
Coke went back to the original because they were losing market share to Pepsi over their formula change decision.
Your growth projection is spot on though. They were not meeting it...however that does not mean that they were not successful in the industry/genre at the time compared to the other active titles sans WoW at the time.
The bottom line is do they have more subscriptions now then they had when the made the changes? No...Therefore they failed. But what is worse is that they failed to admit it and revert back to what was successful.
Koster was right when he said that you have the customers that you have when you start. SOE failed to head a basic business rule...It costs more to get a new customer than it takes to keep one. Because of this they have a hugely tarnished reputation in the industry now.
WoW was the exception that blew up the curve and that is still true today. SOE spent all this time and money to copy Blizzard but failed to copy the one thing that set them apart. Polish...The shit WoW published for the most part worked with few bugs.
You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
If you lose your customers, then I'd think the stockholders would be pissed.
On the other hand, if you're an MBA out to maximize the short term for your own personal benefit, as in cashing in your stock options before the whole thing collapses, then, by all means, screw over your customers AND your stockholders.
They're just different flavors of marks, after all.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
There are two reasons (among many I suppose) reasons that a company would do this. They were either NOT sustaining themselves or were not meeting their growth projections. If indeed they were sustaining themselves as per that quote then it was more than likely it was that they they needed more growth. Whether or not a company or people in that company make smart decisions has nothing to do with maturity (and I am a bit suspect as to why you think that even figures into anything and why you keep throwing that around. If you want to argue as to what maturity is then that is another subject). We will assume that they have a modicum of maturity because of their age. Just because someone makes a business decision that you disagree with doesn't mean they are immature. Had they made this change AND succeded but disenfranchised a portion of their playerbase would this have been immature? Immaturity has nothign to do with it. It is whether or not the business decision was a good one. Since they did not make the gains they wanted and disenfranchised a portion of the playerbase then it was not. Still, companies do this. Look at the coke example. They tried it, it didn't work and they went back to orginal recipe. But then again their is conjecture that they did this for publicity's sake. (there was at the time a thought that the whole thing was planned out). Apple moving over to OS X and then making the decision that they were not going to support OS 9 anymore also disenfranchised a portion of their customer base (and a good portioin at that) and forced them to either stay with OS 9 (unsupported), Move completely to OS X or not use their product anymore. And you know what? It was the right move as they believed that their product had a better future with the OS X platform regardless of the uproar of many customers. You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
Coke went back to the original because they were losing market share to Pepsi over their formula change decision.
Your growth projection is spot on though. They were not meeting it...however that does not mean that they were not successful in the industry/genre at the time compared to the other active titles sans WoW at the time.
The bottom line is do they have more subscriptions now then they had when the made the changes? No...Therefore they failed. But what is worse is that they failed to admit it and revert back to what was successful.
Koster was right when he said that you have the customers that you have when you start. SOE failed to head a basic business rule...It costs more to get a new customer than it takes to keep one. Because of this they have a hugely tarnished reputation in the industry now.
WoW was the exception that blew up the curve and that is still true today. SOE spent all this time and money to copy Blizzard but failed to copy the one thing that set them apart. Polish...The shit WoW published for the most part worked with few bugs.
Well, that's an interesting point. Why didn't they revert back to SWG pre-NGE? Was it that they thought it would be a public relations fiasco to do so as admitting they were wrong might suggest that they had no idea what they did? Or was it too costly to revert? Did they think that they could ride it out?
And you are absolutely right, Blizzard brought polish and ease of use. I'm not sure that Sony understood how important that was to players.
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You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
If you lose your customers, then I'd think the stockholders would be pissed.
On the other hand, if you're an MBA out to maximize the short term for your own personal benefit, as in cashing in your stock options before the whole thing collapses, then, by all means, screw over your customers AND your stockholders.
They're just different flavors of marks, after all.
Yes that's true, of course. But if you lose some customers because you truly believe there is a greater customer base to tap into, one that you are sure you can do because you see that other companies are doing it then that is a business decision.
I have no doubt that they sat in their meetings and argued the pros and cons of making the change. do not think for one moment that they didn't know they were going to piss people off and lose customers.
I have sat through enough quarterly meetings to have witnessed some of the most amazing conversations, including the creation of the word "productizing" and "Productization".
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It's also useful to realize that up until this last April, Smedley pretty much answered to no one. SOE was under the overlordship of Sony's movie division, and Smedley pretty much had a free reign (and was free of reins) as CEO of SOE. He didn't answer to stockholders, or a board of directors in place to look after stockholder interests.
So he could do about anything he wanted. I'm sure that the Ferengi greedheads of LEC had more than just a little voice in the whole thing too...SWG was not raking in the bucks that THEY thought the IP deserved, and LEC has been, for this century, pretty much about selling bantha poodoo in a box labeled "Star Wars" and seeing money flow in. Quality is pretty much up to the whims of the contracted developers, who might turn out some very good stuff (like the JK series and KOTOR) or very lousy stuff (just about everything foisted on the public associated with Ep I).
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Originally posted by Sovrath The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Originally posted by Sovrath The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Wanting more money has nothing to do with greed if that is your job. They are required to maximize their profits always. That's their job.
If you all want to say that he is immature in the context you put it then that seems more than acceptable.
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Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market.
Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE.
But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie.
Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller.
Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in.
Blizz shattered that image.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Originally posted by Sovrath The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Wanting more money has nothing to do with greed if that is your job. They are required to maximize their profits always. That's their job.
If you all want to say that he is immature in the context you put it then that seems more than acceptable.
maximizing profits is fine...however...you have to have a product cusumers want to buy to get it which is something SOE has issues with. Hell...they HAD a good customer base and chucked it to the curb for a non-existent one based upon a focus group of people who didn't play the game which is just one of the reasons they are the laughing stock of the MMO industry right now.
Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market. Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE. But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie. Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller. Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in. Blizz shattered that image.
That is a true and huge distinction that many have failed to see.
Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market. Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE. But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie. Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller. Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in. Blizz shattered that image.
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
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Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market. Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE. But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie. Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller. Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in. Blizz shattered that image.
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Rather than immature perhaps a better term would be ignorant....however ignorance presumes the capability of learning which SOE seems to lack.
Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market. Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE. But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie. Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller. Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in. Blizz shattered that image.
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Ok, I can understand your aversion to that particular word being used to describe those actions.
"Immaturity" has connotations that probably exceed the real intended meaning.
So point taken.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost. Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account. But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Ok, I can understand your aversion to that particular word being used to describe those actions.
"Immaturity" has connotations that probably exceed the real intended meaning.
So point taken.
Thanks!
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Comments
Putting Chapter 6 in the same boat with the CU and NGE pretty much blows your credibility.
Why? After the CU/NGE, Chapter 6 is by far the most hated update to the game.
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Putting Chapter 6 in the same boat with the CU and NGE pretty much blows your credibility.
It was exactly the same thing, but to a much lesser extent. It showed very clearly they learned nothing from the CUNGE.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Well, you have to separate what is important to ME and what businesses do to stay in business. I think that's a huge problem on this site. Players are living in a bit of a fantasy world where it's all about the love of the game and not about business.
So sure, accountability has means a lot to me. I even live my life to a pretty strict mode of behavior when it comes ot accountability. But that has nothing to do with what businesses do and why the do it.
And I've rarely seen a large business that wasn't conscious of their stocks. And many of you just don't seem to get it. It's about investors. Of which some if not most of you are. Investors. If you have a retirement plan or mutual funds then you are investors. so if the company or plan you invested in wasn't making the most out of your money you would probably scream holy murder. And you can take that company to court if you feel they are not utilizing your money well (along with other investors).
So Sony is a public company and will operate like a public company. They are not going to give their word, want to later change it and then say "aw shucks, we gave our word.
The players are NOT their most important concern. It's their investors. And like most companies, they will make dumb decisions in order to keep their investors happy which in the long run might cut off their nose to spite their face.
I don't know what the figures were for pre-nge swg. But apparently the company didn't feel they were making enough money and so changed it. Bad decision but it probably is harder to go back to the earlier model of gameplay than change a recipe for a soda.
But I will reiterate, companies watch out for their investors. And come on. This Smed guy is the ultimate big company muckity muck. He is a bottom line guy, pure and simple. And that is how he is going to make his decisions.
Actually, what SOE has done is a classic example of the opposite. This is what happens when people ignorant of general business principles run businesses. Any idiot knows that if you screw your current customers it will NOT improve your bottom line in the short run or the long run.
If Smedley was a real businessman (he's not, he's a gamer who got lucky), and if Torres was a real businessman (another gamer-geek), if Ward had been a real businessman (again not -- although marketing may be part of many businesses, it is not the businesses themselves. It is often a disaster to put marketing in charge). Not that there isn't room for gamers and marketing folks in businesses that rely on both, but that such folks, if they do not learn general business principles somewhere, will blow it somewhere down the line.
The NGE was a classic example of lemonade stand thinking. They got stupidly greedy, like immature kids do, and lost all their business. Imagine a couple of kids who run a lemonade stand and realize that if they cut the amount of lemon and sugar they use in half, they will double their profits. They then decide to just do it. Suddenly, their once loyal customers will realize the lemonade sucks now, and stop coming. They will tell the people they know about how the kids are trying to rip people off, and eventually, they will either go back to making better lemonade or they are out of business.
It is one of the first lessons anyone in business learns, and Smedley and sons still haven't learned this. This shows complete crass ignorance of business principles. It in no way shows that they are doing what all businesses do. They are doing what failed businesses have done -- and what most successful businesses have managed to avoid.
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
fishermage.blogspot.com
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
fishermage.blogspot.com
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What I think is he felt that there were more of the other types of customers out there and that he was takinig a gamble that though he would lose a portion of his playerbase he would get more of another type of player.
so sure, one of the first lessons in business is to not lose your customer base but there is another lesson. If your current customer base cannot support your business (or bring in the profits that you want/require) then it is sometimes a priority to either extend to new markets or tap into a new customer base.
The current swg playerbase could not bring in the money they wanted, They saw that there was more money to be had and they went after that.
The second rule of business is that it is not gambling. We know from what the participants have said that they WERE making enough money to sustain the business, and the reason they decided to gamble was because they were greedy, envious of WoW, and wanted MORE than that. Again, it was a clear sign of business immaturity from the get-go.
Your customers are your investment base. To gamble that away is always folly. Again, it shows what happens when non business people run businesses.
I don't think it was a gamble in the las vegas way. I really think they had done their research and assumed that there was a larger group of people out there who were willing to play a different type of game and decided to go after that market instead. As far as whether or not there were enough people willing to play swg and support it properly, i've never seen any such numbers.
I have no doubt they wanted more money. Whether or not they needed more money is another thing. What was the playerbase just prior to the nge?
I'll also say again, if swg had 200k subscribers and a game like wow for instance started have significantly more, it would be an easy decision for the suits to start making changes so that they could try to capture that same market share. If there are millions of people who would play your game but your game only attracts a few hundred thousand then that initial playerbase will suddenly become less important.
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
YOU were the one who said they supposedly did this because they were not sustaining themselves. I explained that according to Smedley's own words, they were. Now you are moving the goalposts to justify their bad business decisions. Interesting. I'll play your game though, being the magnanimous sort that I am.
Growth is a great thing, and yes, is the goal of every business. So what? None of that has anything to do with whether or not you screw your current customers in the name of growth. Mature business people know that growth comes from building on your base and making the right decisions, not pissing on your base and acting emotionally out of envy.
The "had Smedley succeeded" argument is moot. There is no way he could have succeeded, and anyone who knew anything about business predicted this. We turned out to be right. Again it shows immaturity, and what happens when people who do not understand business run businesses.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Smedley's own statements are that the game was self-supporting, but taht they 'wanted to do better."
One doesn't have to be gambling in a las vegas way in order to be still gambling in an immature business way. They did shabby research did not check their facts and made bad decisions, all based upon envy. These are things good, mature business people do not do. Ever.
If your business is making X dollars, and your competition is making 10X dollars, you do not screw your current customers to hope to capture some of the other guys 10X dollars. Anyone with any business experience knows this. Only kids and other unqualified people do not know this: people like Smedley, Torres, and Ward.
Well, I do have business experience as well as the "pleasure" of working in large companies. And there is a difference between self supporting and growth. Businesses that are in business for their own sake usually try to make ends meet, keep their employees as long as they can and essentially stay in business. Large companies have an obligation to their own stockholders and do not try to stay self supporting but strive for year over year growth.
Anyone who knows anything about business knows this. It is not enough to just have enough money to stay in business. If you can't meet your growth projections then you have to do something in order to change that.
And I'll add this, had smedly and his boys made the changes and attracted a far greater playerbase he would have been a good guy to his company and stockholders. They essentially tried to mimic a formula that they surely thought worked. Many companies do this. Heck, movie makers do this as well whcih is why you have many movies that seem to be rehash of older movies.
YOU were the one who said they supposedly did this because they were not sustaining themselves. I explained that according to Smedley's own words, they were. Now you are moving the goalposts to justify their bad business decisions. Interesting. I'll play your game though, being the magnanimous sort that I am.
Growth is a great thing, and yes, is the goal of every business. So what? None of that has anything to do with whether or not you screw your current customers in the name of growth. Mature business people know that growth comes from building on your base and making the right decisions, not pissing on your base and acting emotionally out of envy.
The "had Smedley succeeded" argument is moot. There is no way he could have succeeded, and anyone who knew anything about business predicted this. We turned out to be right. Again it shows immaturity, and what happens when people who do not understand business run businesses.
There are two reasons (among many I suppose) reasons that a company would do this. They were either NOT sustaining themselves or were not meeting their growth projections. If indeed they were sustaining themselves as per that quote then it was more than likely it was that they they needed more growth.
Whether or not a company or people in that company make smart decisions has nothing to do with maturity (and I am a bit suspect as to why you think that even figures into anything and why you keep throwing that around. If you want to argue as to what maturity is then that is another subject). We will assume that they have a modicum of maturity because of their age and position Does that mean they are the pinnacle of all that is mature? No of course not, but I highly doubt that people in their board meetings are sitting back, argueing and pulling the maturity card. Just because someone makes a business decision that you disagree with doesn't mean they are immature. Had they made this change AND succeded but disenfranchised a portion of their playerbase would this have been immature?
Immaturity has nothign to do with it. It is whether or not the business decision was a good one. Since they did not make the gains they wanted and disenfranchised a portion of the playerbase then it was not.
Still, companies do this. Look at the coke example. They tried it, it didn't work and they went back to orginal recipe. But then again their is conjecture that they did this for publicity's sake. (there was at the time a thought that the whole thing was planned out).
Apple moving over to OS X and then making the decision that they were not going to support OS 9 anymore also disenfranchised a portion of their customer base (and a good portioin at that) and forced them to either stay with OS 9 (unsupported), Move completely to OS X or not use their product anymore. And you know what? It was the right move as they believed that their product had a better future with the OS X platform regardless of the uproar of many customers.
You have this idea that public companies owe an allegiance to their customers and that simply is not the case. They owe their allegiance to the stock holders and their investments and if they belive they can make more money they will.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Coke went back to the original because they were losing market share to Pepsi over their formula change decision.
Your growth projection is spot on though. They were not meeting it...however that does not mean that they were not successful in the industry/genre at the time compared to the other active titles sans WoW at the time.
The bottom line is do they have more subscriptions now then they had when the made the changes? No...Therefore they failed. But what is worse is that they failed to admit it and revert back to what was successful.
Koster was right when he said that you have the customers that you have when you start. SOE failed to head a basic business rule...It costs more to get a new customer than it takes to keep one. Because of this they have a hugely tarnished reputation in the industry now.
WoW was the exception that blew up the curve and that is still true today. SOE spent all this time and money to copy Blizzard but failed to copy the one thing that set them apart. Polish...The shit WoW published for the most part worked with few bugs.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
If you lose your customers, then I'd think the stockholders would be pissed.
On the other hand, if you're an MBA out to maximize the short term for your own personal benefit, as in cashing in your stock options before the whole thing collapses, then, by all means, screw over your customers AND your stockholders.
They're just different flavors of marks, after all.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Coke went back to the original because they were losing market share to Pepsi over their formula change decision.
Your growth projection is spot on though. They were not meeting it...however that does not mean that they were not successful in the industry/genre at the time compared to the other active titles sans WoW at the time.
The bottom line is do they have more subscriptions now then they had when the made the changes? No...Therefore they failed. But what is worse is that they failed to admit it and revert back to what was successful.
Koster was right when he said that you have the customers that you have when you start. SOE failed to head a basic business rule...It costs more to get a new customer than it takes to keep one. Because of this they have a hugely tarnished reputation in the industry now.
WoW was the exception that blew up the curve and that is still true today. SOE spent all this time and money to copy Blizzard but failed to copy the one thing that set them apart. Polish...The shit WoW published for the most part worked with few bugs.
Well, that's an interesting point. Why didn't they revert back to SWG pre-NGE? Was it that they thought it would be a public relations fiasco to do so as admitting they were wrong might suggest that they had no idea what they did? Or was it too costly to revert? Did they think that they could ride it out?
And you are absolutely right, Blizzard brought polish and ease of use. I'm not sure that Sony understood how important that was to players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you lose your customers, then I'd think the stockholders would be pissed.
On the other hand, if you're an MBA out to maximize the short term for your own personal benefit, as in cashing in your stock options before the whole thing collapses, then, by all means, screw over your customers AND your stockholders.
They're just different flavors of marks, after all.
Yes that's true, of course. But if you lose some customers because you truly believe there is a greater customer base to tap into, one that you are sure you can do because you see that other companies are doing it then that is a business decision.
I have no doubt that they sat in their meetings and argued the pros and cons of making the change. do not think for one moment that they didn't know they were going to piss people off and lose customers.
I have sat through enough quarterly meetings to have witnessed some of the most amazing conversations, including the creation of the word "productizing" and "Productization".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's also useful to realize that up until this last April, Smedley pretty much answered to no one. SOE was under the overlordship of Sony's movie division, and Smedley pretty much had a free reign (and was free of reins) as CEO of SOE. He didn't answer to stockholders, or a board of directors in place to look after stockholder interests.
So he could do about anything he wanted. I'm sure that the Ferengi greedheads of LEC had more than just a little voice in the whole thing too...SWG was not raking in the bucks that THEY thought the IP deserved, and LEC has been, for this century, pretty much about selling bantha poodoo in a box labeled "Star Wars" and seeing money flow in. Quality is pretty much up to the whims of the contracted developers, who might turn out some very good stuff (like the JK series and KOTOR) or very lousy stuff (just about everything foisted on the public associated with Ep I).
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Wanting more money has nothing to do with greed if that is your job. They are required to maximize their profits always. That's their job.
If you all want to say that he is immature in the context you put it then that seems more than acceptable.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Another mark of immaturity is not undersanding the nature of your market.
Wow expanded the MMO market. WoW made the pie much larger. They took away only a relative handful of customers from SOE.
But the only thing Smed can see is the market share pie chart, which showed this monsterous thing called Blizzard where there was once a monsterous thing called SOE. SOE probably had just about as much pie after WoW as before, but the thing was, there WoW had HUGE amounts of the much bigger pie.
Thus creating this situation where they just outright went into a panic when WoW came on the scene, because even though the pie was larger, their percentage of the pie was much smaller.
Smedley's image was predicated on market share size, not the actual amount of revenue rolling in.
Blizz shattered that image.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
"If not then why the angry outbursts at vets all of a sudden?"
I think it might have to do with the incessent whining and posting of the same crap day after day after day.
A little less
please.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Greed isn't a valid justification for their actions. Every company wants more money and customers than they currently have. There is a huge difference between needing and wanting.
Fishermage is correct when he says Smedley and company are immature. Not in a childish sort of way, but in the fashion that they just do not know what they are doing. That sort of growth and his track record prove he does not have the experience or even the understanding of his customers (including the potential customer he is always pandering) to increase his market share. Smed was just in the right place at the right time which is why he has his job.
The manner in which they conduct their business factors in losing a portion of their current subscribers in an attempt to gain more revenue through a mythical potential customer. Never do their plans revolve around making a better product or emmulating the aspects of what their competition has done successful. That is the problem. He simply wants to make more money, but doesn't have the experience or know how to do it. Trying to emulate his competition is one thing, but taking a steaming dump on his current players while counting the money he hasn't made yet is just plain stupid. Treating customers with contempt while trying to woo over new customers isn't sound logic.
It isn't like they even try to make a better product while they sacrifice their current players. The effort isn't even there to make the claim that they are trying to make a better product.
Wanting more money has nothing to do with greed if that is your job. They are required to maximize their profits always. That's their job.
If you all want to say that he is immature in the context you put it then that seems more than acceptable.
maximizing profits is fine...however...you have to have a product cusumers want to buy to get it which is something SOE has issues with. Hell...they HAD a good customer base and chucked it to the curb for a non-existent one based upon a focus group of people who didn't play the game which is just one of the reasons they are the laughing stock of the MMO industry right now.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
That is a true and huge distinction that many have failed to see.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Rather than immature perhaps a better term would be ignorant....however ignorance presumes the capability of learning which SOE seems to lack.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
My problem is that the word immaturity is just not usually used in this case. Incompetant? sure, Bad business sense? sure. But I have never been to a meeting where this term was used to describe someone who made bad decisions. And again, like the Apple example, had he acually done what he sought to do then this conversation would be swinging a different way as people would be hard pressed to say he made a bad decision when he actually made money. He is NOT the first businessman who made a calculated decision and lost.
Otherwise I agree. Smed saw that he could make more money based upon what he saw out there. He did sell out the (at the time) current playerbase. I will reaffirm that SOE knew this. This was not a surprise. They don't usually make these decisions and sit back wringing their hands to see if they were right. Part of the problem is that they didn't take into account why their game was popular nor did they take any of the human factor into account.
But whether or not one wants to use the term immature, bad business acumen or what have you, the point is that he didn't do this for any other reason than to maximize profits. That's his job. He failed in this with regards to SWG but they are keeping him on for some reason.
Ok, I can understand your aversion to that particular word being used to describe those actions.
"Immaturity" has connotations that probably exceed the real intended meaning.
So point taken.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Ok, I can understand your aversion to that particular word being used to describe those actions.
"Immaturity" has connotations that probably exceed the real intended meaning.
So point taken.
Thanks!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo