How can you praise SOE when you see the results in SWG with TGC? You paid for virtual cards without being certain of getting an item and even more getting the item you want. Some people are spending hunderd $, this is worse than the casino.
I'm not against TGC and I have thousands of Magic the gathering cards. But theses are 2 different games. Also they are real paper cards that have resell value.
I'm not against RMT in general but SOE way to do so is just plain wrong. Once again they are screwing the customers.
Eccoton, SOE is doing his best to milk the cow. How can you praise SOE when you see the results in SWG with TGC? You paid for virtual cards without being certain of getting an item and even more getting the item you want. Some people are spending hunderd $, this is worse than the casino. I'm not against TGC and I have thousands of Magic the gathering cards. But theses are 2 different games. Also they are real paper cards that have resell value. I'm not against RMT in general but SOE way to do so is just plain wrong. Once again they are screwing the customers.
The connection to the card games is obvious and a smart decision. There is a whole new generation that is ok with spending money on virtual items and loves these card type games. Why not tie them into an mmo? WoW is doing this as well with its codes you get from the cards (real cards). Also most people buy the cards to play the game. SOE is not counting on the income from those that buy a bunch of cards for that item and do not play the card game. Yes there are people who do that, which I do not understand, and SOE benefits. Gambling on a loot cards is a lot different then an item mall. I have no problem with the cards but I have been addressing item malls in my responses. They are not the samething and should not be consider as such. Milking the cow is what they are in business for. I guess we see that analogy differently.
I understand your point but this is hardly worst then a casino. Much like someone connecting this to cigarettes or in one post someone was actually say the selfish use of item mall is why there is homelessness. These are games and entertainment. How each chooses, to spend their time and money is their own business.
Companies like SOE are tapping into a new way and generation of gamers/mmo players. I think we are starting to see the first generation gaps in mmos. There are a lot of older players who long for the good old days. Funny I am an older gamer and I am sure one of the older (not oldest!) regular posters here. Even in the "real world" I look to the future and embrace change. I do so in my virtual world as well. This network of game styles and payment methods will be even more tied together in the future into large virtual experiences made up of lots of variety. Item malls are just one part of that change. Don't be suprise to see see in an mmo in the future with the reverse of this idea as well. You will go to an ingame vendor and but a matching "real" hat as your avitar and have it shipped to your "real" house. If you are into virtual persistent worlds, which I assume you are since you are here, get ready for some big changes.
Originally posted by eccoton I never said SOE did not make some bad decisions, they have. Also I am not yielding against things that don't effect me. You have suggested that more then once. Again I like the idea. SOE is not counting on my yielding, they have my interest in this idea. I never yield both in my virtual world or my real world. Until you accept this, your comments are not really about me or my view on this subject. I am also so far past the NGE disaster it is not relevent to me anymore in how I deal with SOE. SOE is not or will not be ruining my journey because my dealings with them are more then EQ2. SOE has not screw- up my game experience, except with one game SWG, which I did have a great time for over 2 years, which SOE was responsible for. They changed the game I left, that does not take away the great virtual experience I had. I now play EQ2 love it, play Vanguard on and off like it but it needs work, Played Matrix Online for over a year liked it a lot. I am also a ps3 user, this is where I different and find it interesting. You have to put the ps3 into the mix to understand what SOE/Sony is doing. This is where I think many here do not understand what SOE/Sony is exploring. They are not trying to screw-up EQ/EQ2 with the item mall they are exploring a new idea and testing it with an established player base. It is not about greed. I believe, until you stop looking at it like this, you are not understanding the reality of what they are doing. You need to connect this idea with Home on the ps3, which I am currently in the open beta and think it is a fascinating idea. I think SOE/Sony is exploring the future of mmos and online gaming and are setting up to again be one of the leaders in this area. Not with one game but with a interconnecting network of games and virtual experiences. That is what they are doing not trying to suck you dry and kill EQ2. Last night in Home I decided to explore the mall and found a few stores. I looked around and saw a few items I wanted for my home and some cloths. These items cost real money. Yes real cash. So like I did with the item mall in EQ2 I deposited 10 dollar just to test it out. Indeed I had to spend my own real money. Items cost between .49 and .99 cents. I then spent 4.99 for a new apartment. If you pay .49 cents for a lamp it goes into your inventory and you can place as many as you want not just one. Anyway, so I had some fun. Spent time decorating my new pad. Just like I love to decorate in EQ2. Then I put on my cowboy hat, that cost .49 cents, and headed to the central plaza. There people loved my hat and did not say things like "You are foolish to spend .49 cent for a virtual hat" they simply said it was cool. This morning I got an e-mail receipts for all my purchases. They have my pc accounts linked to my ps3 account so everything is connected and smooth. I was impressed. You see there are 1000s of people who do not find this idea as a bad thing. It is a new thing and SOE thinks it is the future. Yes they are just a business. SOE exploration into this area, and even banking on consoles as the future of mmo type games, I think is a smart one. They are trying to place themselves as leaders in this area. All mmos have the lights turned out on them for many reasons. SOE may indeed close eq/eq2 in favor of The Agency, DC Universe, and Home. They may pursue more ideas like item malls in existing games. Regardless EQ2 will shut down someday. I will leave, it might be because of something stupid SOE does or it maybe just time to go. Everything ends including beloved mmos. That ending does not take away from the hours of enjoyment we had from them regardless of how they end. SOE has offered products that did this for many, including you, but products changed and people hated them for that. Like I said I do not invest that much emotions into entertainment. I am very interested in what SOE is doing I think they might be on the right direction as a business leader in this area. Smed is not evil SOE does not want to suck you dry with greed. They want to get your business. NGE is a dead issue and most people here are really mad over NGE and item malls SOE is much more then that. You can point out all the mistakes or "lies" SOE has presented, I am sure some will again, But until you see the big picture you do not get it. I say that since more then one here has said I do not get it. However indeed I do. My mmo and virtual experiences are much bigger then a game change that pissed me off. SOE in the big picture has had more success then failures and has giving you a chance to purches some great time spent in their games. They should be applauded for that. They should also be told when we are unhappy. I am still their supporter and customer because my good experiences with them as a company far outweigh the bad (NGE). I am waiting for someone to tell me how I am deluded so fire away.
Ecco, We are in full agreement on where SOE thinks the MMO future is. I understand they are banking on the PS3 and RMT transactions. None of this is something I do not understand. I will go you one futher in that SOE realizes they cannot compete in the subscription market with other companies right now and the future of their division in lost if they have to rely on the MMOs they have now. Their marketshare has been shriveling up to the point where it will not be a sustainable model for them unless their new games are successful.
Now all of that aside it does not justify what is being done here. Not one bit and in now way deserves applause of all things rational. There is no reason to applaud SOE for renegging on their promises just so they can built better games in the future. This just shows how little they care for their current players.
SOE and Smdley promised this sort of thing would not happen to the Everquest series of games. It doesn't matter how they want to twist words now and redefine what was said in the past, the message was loud and clear then as it is now. Some people stuck with SOE based on those assurances. Now here we are and RMT is being crammed down the throat of the players once again.
Do you really think the players concerns will somehow be soothed by the fact that this is being tested for a future SOE game [a game which they may never even play]? Do you think it is somehow ok to force this type of thing on customers who have in the past said in no uncertain terms that they do not want this just so SOE can build games they will never play? Once again SOE is using their games to cater to the "potential future customer" at the expense of their current players. That is something you want to stand up and congratulate?
Also a fact for you that you keep dodging. The "fluff" items that you are now paying for were previously free. SOE removing what they would would have been free and instead reselling it to the player base is not a net gain for the players. It is a net loss even if you enjoy buying items. It ia a step in the wrong direction for THE PLAYERS OF EQ/EQ2. It doesn't matter what SOE does in their future games. It doesn't matter how smart they are about what the market holds for their prediction. What matters is right now people are being charged a second time for content.
That is not something to be applauded, ever.
Summary
A company broke their word to their subscribers... again.
They did not have the decency or respect to their players to discuss this change with them PRIOR to its release.
They once again made a highly controversial change to their game shortly after expansions were sold.
They are putting additional fees on content that has always been free.
They are using their playerbase once again as a test bed for "the potential" subscriber in a manner that many people don't want them to.
Can you tell me why people should be applauding SOE again? This just proves once again that they do not listen to their players and they have not learned from their past mistakes. It is business as usual for SOE no matter how much the fans want to forgive them or overlook what they do.
P.S. My smoking analogy wasn't trying to link SOE to cancer or homelessness or any of the worlds problems. If that is how you choose to twist it then my words are lost on you.
Originally posted by eccoton How were you burned exactly? You pay a monthly fee for a game that is for the time spent in a game and the box price. The box clearly explains the game can change.
You also know the CEO of SoE also PROMISED that RMT will not be introduced to the mainline PvE servers?
I specifically looked for a MMO for these two issues...
1. A good tradeskill side of the game. 2. No item mall.
I canceled my account promptly over #2, as I won't endorse gambling, especially with a company that thinks 2 addictions for a price of one is "fun". Seen what it does in F2P games, and refuse to be a party to it.
The connection to the card games is obvious and a smart decision. There is a whole new generation that is ok with spending money on virtual items and loves these card type games. Why not tie them into an mmo? WoW is doing this as well with its codes you get from the cards (real cards). Also most people buy the cards to play the game. SOE is not counting on the income from those that buy a bunch of cards for that item and do not play the card game. Yes there are people who do that, which I do not understand, and SOE benefits. Gambling on a loot cards is a lot different then an item mall. I have no problem with the cards but I have been addressing item malls in my responses. They are not the samething and should not be consider as such. Milking the cow is what they are in business for. I guess we see that analogy differently. I understand your point but this is hardly worst then a casino. Much like someone connecting this to cigarettes or in one post someone was actually say the selfish use of item mall is why there is homelessness. These are games and entertainment. How each chooses, to spend their time and money is their own business. Companies like SOE are tapping into a new way and generation of gamers/mmo players. I think we are starting to see the first generation gaps in mmos. There are a lot of older players who long for the good old days. Funny I am an older gamer and I am sure one of the older (not oldest!) regular posters here. Even in the "real world" I look to the future and embrace change. I do so in my virtual world as well. This network of game styles and payment methods will be even more tied together in the future into large virtual experiences made up of lots of variety. Item malls are just one part of that change. Don't be suprise to see see in an mmo in the future with the reverse of this idea as well. You will go to an ingame vendor and but a matching "real" hat as your avitar and have it shipped to your "real" house. If you are into virtual persistent worlds, which I assume you are since you are here, get ready for some big changes.
Really I don't know who's posts are worst yours or AmazingAvery ones.
At least he's a Fanboi and I can excuse his blind statements for that, whereas you are obviously clairvoyant. Maybe the difference between us lies in the following: I play LotRo because of the way they take care of their customers. I leave SOE special treatment to people like you.
Funny is I took a Turbine survey about RMT and I said yes I'm willing to pay RMT for most of their stuff. This because I do know they don't cheat players. Not only it will be optional but also it won't break any game play core elements.
I'm all for change but for improvements not regression.
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
Did it ever occur to you already pay a monthly fee for P2P MMO's and that this stuff they put into the cash shop would normally be put into the game for free? Simply because you pay a montly fee already, so the developers can maintain the game, continue developing it to add new stuff!
It's people like you that let companies get away with it and start implementing cash shops ON TOP of your monthly fee!
The result of all this is that NOTHING will be added for free anymore to the game! NOTHING!
As why would they? When people like you are willing to throw money at them through a cash shop.
So instead of having great FREE updates with fun event quest chains providing you with these fluff rewards and thus EARNING it ingame.... wich makes MMO's so fun. As you are able to do something else then just grind for gear only!
You are from now on FORCED to use the Cash Shop to obtain new (Fluff) stuff!
Without earning it! Without playing the game itself for it!
Sorry tho. But that's not how I like to play MMO's from now on.
And if you cannot see the damage being done by slapping this system on an existing game that is around for over 4 years??
And just as a point of interest, yesterday SOE began offering a new series of "fluff" game items for sale in exchange for real money. Among the new "fluff" items available for purchase is the ability to increase your movement rate in the game (I beleive it was by 50%).
Understandably, the folks on the PVP servers are up in arms.
It is no longer a matter of if SOE will sell game-changing items in EQ2. They have already begun.
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
Did it ever occur to you already pay a monthly fee for P2P MMO's and that this stuff they put into the cash shop would normally be put into the game for free? Simply because you pay a montly fee already, so the developers can maintain the game, continue developing it to add new stuff!
It's people like you that let companies get away with it and start implementing cash shops ON TOP of your monthly fee!
The result of all this is that NOTHING will be added for free anymore to the game! NOTHING!
As why would they? When people like you are willing to throw money at them through a cash shop.
So instead of having great FREE updates with fun event quest chains providing you with these fluff rewards and thus EARNING it ingame.... wich makes MMO's so fun. As you are able to do something else then just grind for gear only!
You are from now on FORCED to use the Cash Shop to obtain new (Fluff) stuff!
Without earning it! Without playing the game itself for it!
Sorry tho. But that's not how I like to play MMO's from now on.
And if you cannot see the damage being done by slapping this system on an existing game that is around for over 4 years??
Cheers
Nope I do not see the damage. I have stated my opinion clearly on this matter and my opinion where I see mmos going with this idea in the future.
As far as this notion you have of earning it. I for one have been playing EQ2 since beta and am continuing playing now. Unlike many posting here who quit or played a year or two. After all these years I got nothing to prove to you or anyone about my time and skill in EQ2. So do not try to hold this idea of earning anything in EQ2 as some sort of proof of commitment or worth. "Without playing the game itself"? I guarantee I have played more and earned more in EQ2 the you have or ever will ( i mean this in a general way to those suggesting if you buy something somehow you did not earn it or are dedicated at the game). I am the truely devoted EQ2 fan I simply do not see this idea of an item mall hurting EQ2 and certianly not worth quiting over. My buying a house pet does not deminish the years of accomplishment in EQ2 or hurt its future.You doubt me log on the the mistmoore server and come visit my houses, checkout my equipment, mounts, professions, quest count, and guild level. I have earned it! Just like I earned the 3 bucks for my house pet.
EQ2 is most likely not the cash cow you think it is. In fact the use of the item mall may help keep eq2 around longer not kill it. I am a true fan I stayed even when SOE made changes I was not to happy about or ignored bugs that were around for years. I stayed and was patient. I did not whine and quit at the first thing I did not like. I see no evidence with the new marketplace that it is hurting anyone in an unfair way. Until I do I will continue to support EQ2 even if it takes a couple buck over subscription once and awhile. Why? because I want eq2 around for years. Item malls will not kill eq2 it is people leaving then spending time posting how rotten it is, to save us all from our delusions we enjoy eq2. People who are actually in game are saying very little about the item mall. It is not an issue with most players in the slightest. I have played for over 4 years at 20+ hours a week I got nothing to prove to anyone. Neither do 1000s of other dedicted players who might enjoy an item mall.
Maybe if you had taken a stance once in a while you wouldn't have a company that make these drastic changes you (or others) don't like. A company that ignores bugs for years (your words not mine). A company that thinks it is acceptable to thrust yet another controversial unannounced change onto the game that they damn well know people will quit over. It is sad when their design process factors in how upset the community will be and what level of anger is acceptable (see bruce ferguson interview for detail)
Again, the future of MMOs does not matter. When new games come out that have item malls then players will have all the knowledge BEFORE purchasing the game and knowing what they are getting into. EQ2 is a P2P game that was promised not to have RMT put in it.
What matters is SOEs promise to not do this, the manner in which they have went about doing it, the playerbase who said they did not want this.
Just because you chose to overlook where this is going and how it negatively affects your fellow game players does not in any way make it justifable. Can you name me one reason why this content that is normally free, but now is resold to the players is good?
There is a word I am looking for that describes this, but it escapes me right now. Complacency is the closest I can think of.
And just as a point of interest, yesterday SOE began offering a new series of "fluff" game items for sale in exchange for real money. Among the new "fluff" items available for purchase is the ability to increase your movement rate in the game (I beleive it was by 50%). Understandably, the folks on the PVP servers are up in arms. It is no longer a matter of if SOE will sell game-changing items in EQ2. They have already begun.
SOE has given away mounts as rewards for pre-order. These mounts offer speed increases as well. They were free to those that bought the expansion box not everyone. I did not see players up in arms about that. If they will sell them? They have been selling them remember exp bonus potions, they are technically game changing as well. So your statement while, I understand what you are trying to say with it, is not really some new justification the SOE will soon be selling uber must have items.
Movement bonuses are hardly anything to be up in arms about. Now I do not play on a pvp server since eq2 was designed as a pve game. However I did try a pvp server for a few months and pvp in eq2 needs a lot more work then worring about a movement speed bonus. While pvp is in eq2, most players understand eq2 is a pve game.
Maybe if you had taken a stance once in a while you wouldn't have a company that make these drastic changes you (or others) don't like. A company that ignores bugs for years (your words not mine). A company that thinks it is acceptable to thrust yet another controversial unannounced change onto the game that they damn well know people will quit over. It is sad when their design process factors in how upset the community will be and what level of anger is acceptable (see bruce ferguson interview for detail) Again, the future of MMOs does not matter. When new games come out that have item malls then players will have all the knowledge BEFORE purchasing the game and knowing what they are getting into. EQ2 is a P2P game that was promised not to have RMT put in it. What matters is SOEs promise to not do this, the manner in which they have went about doing it, the playerbase who said they did not want this.
Just because you chose to overlook where this is going and how it negatively affects your fellow game players does not in any way make it justifable. Can you name me one reason why this content that is normally free, but now is resold to the players is good?
There is a word I am looking for that describes this, but it escapes me right now. Complacency is the closest I can think of.
Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea!
I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%. I have been so far from that, you got no idea what you are talking about. I fought and complained about many things over the years with SOE. Some issues I won. I had direct effect on the shadow bug (which was a big issue for me) Other things I lost like the horrible NGE. It is cool you disagree with me even strongly but do not presume you know anything about me and my 4 year + commitment to EQ2 in the face of ridiculous statement like the one you used to describe me. I have taken more then my share of crap for my support of EQ2. I love the game and play it I support it not cry and whine and try to get everyone to quit over something that does not sit well with me. That is not complacency that is loyalty. Loyalty means sometime you take the bad with the good and try to fix the bad if you can. If you are an active player working to remove the item mall I give you credit even though I disagree on its impact in game. If you do not play or quit over it then you really do not got much to say about it. Except obviously insulting the players who work hard to keep EQ2 alive in the face of a often hard to understand developer.
Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea!
I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%.
For those who don't know what SoE does to folks who are "interested" in EQ2...
BTW, I've spent countless hours mentoring players and I only played the game for 3 months straight (had close to 80hrs play time even). I've commented on the game mechanics. I've discussed the class issues --- but I don't get paid, or the high fives, or flown to San Diego to grope devs.
MMOs die on the vine because folks treat it like they believe it's their God given property. Discussions turn into personal attacks (or what they do best, "Hey mod" who they dislike).
Get it through that MEMEME wall: folks will disagree, and they'll passionately disagree, but the moment you tell them to F off, you exposed exactly the problem -- not the solution.
MMOs are many different people playing many different play styles. If a MMO can't cater to the largest populations even (and turning their games into fisticuffs between PvP and PvE players, or soloers vs. groupers) it's the games and genre that lose.
Understand also those who worked their butt off to get their gear -- and didn't cheat and didn't exploit the game to get there -- find it patently offensive to be in a game were anyone will get something without working for it. Secondly, the more RMT enters the genre, more other genres can stereotype MMO players as cheaters and mythicals who bought their gear on mommy and daddy's credit card.
Does that help EQ2? Does it help MMORPGs?
No.
People who invested so much time in their characters often can't see past themselves. Wake up. See it as a whole, not just MEMEME. This genre will die on the vine if it becomes even more insular and catty.
Originally posted by eccoton Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea! I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%. I have been so far from that, you got no idea what you are talking about. I fought and complained about many things over the years with SOE. Some issues I won. I had direct effect on the shadow bug (which was a big issue for me) Other things I lost like the horrible NGE. It is cool you disagree with me even strongly but do not presume you know anything about me and my 4 year + commitment to EQ2 in the face of ridiculous statement like the one you used to describe me. I have taken more then my share of crap for my support of EQ2. I love the game and play it I support it not cry and whine and try to get everyone to quit over something that does not sit well with me. That is not complacency that is loyalty. Loyalty means sometime you take the bad with the good and try to fix the bad if you can. If you are an active player working to remove the item mall I give you credit even though I disagree on its impact in game. If you do not play or quit over it then you really do not got much to say about it. Except obviously insulting the players who work hard to keep EQ2 alive in the face of a often hard to understand developer.
Likewise I have done my fair share of work with EQ2 and was one first name basis with some devs during my time on test server. Standing up for something you do not believe is good for the game let alone ethical for a company to do is not whining or crying. Quitting one of the very few things this company understands and historically the only thing they have responded to. Yet I am not telling you to quit, but I am saying this change sucks to the nth degree. Defending SOE on this and turning a blind eye to bad ethics is what empowers this company to continue this behavior.
Great that you have done hard work and got a shadow bug getting fixed after how many years was it? I know graphics/art is very very important to you and kudos on your victory. How did things fare for all the shitty business practices SOE pulls over the years. Even if you like these changes they slipped in during the middle of the night you have to admit that it is upsetting to many people who were promised this would never happen. You cannot deny this was a very shady way to introduce these things. Telling people it isn't a big deal and looking the other way though....
Loyalty is a very strange word to bring up in an SOE discussion. I cannot think of a more unfaithful MMO company if I tried to.
LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
Originally posted by eccoton I see no evidence with the new marketplace that it is hurting anyone in an unfair way. Until I do I will continue to support EQ2 even if it takes a couple buck over subscription once and awhile. Why? because I want eq2 around for years. <<snip>> EQ2 is most likely not the cash cow you think it is. In fact the use of the item mall may help keep eq2 around longer not kill it. I am a true fan I stayed even when SOE made changes I was not to happy about or ignored bugs that were around for years.
What I keep reading from you is that somehow the ends justify the means. That is what I was unable to put my finger on for a while now.
While many upset people are offended by the manner this was presented, the danger is poses to the game, the promises that are once again being broken, the deceit and lies surrounding the implementation.
EQ2 should be a cash cow, but the bad choices this company has made time and time again have cost it marketshare. This is a shining example of that decision process by SOE that has in fact put EQ2 and SOE as a whole in the position it is right now. The trust bond between SOE and the customer keeps getting stepped on.
Believe it or not I used to be a very devoted fan like yourself, but eventually I got fed up with this type of thing. Enough was enough for me and the ends stopped being more important than the means they were achieved. I could not overlook it anymore regardless of what justification was being offered. I knew nothing was going to change until this company changed leadership.
I really hope that the management of SOE gets flushed, because I really think underneath all the mismanagement is a group of passionate game designers waiting to have the restraints removed. Almost every single big problem with SOE games can be traced back to senior level management decisions. Release dates, major game change directions, many numerous revenue changes, the manner in which the community is treated, etc. It all relates back to the top level people who make these choices and the manner in which they do it.
Why does it seem like every few weeks there is some new scandel with SOE. Cheating devs, producers telling their customers off, blindsiding players with mammoth changes, breaking promises about game direction, etc.
What I keep reading from you is that somehow the ends justify the means. ../.. I really hope that the management of SOE gets flushed, because I really think underneath all the mismanagement is a group of passionate game designers waiting to have the restraints removed. Almost every single big problem with SOE games can be traced back to senior level management decisions. Release dates, major game change directions, many numerous revenue changes, the manner in which the community is treated, etc. It all relates back to the top level people who make these choices and the manner in which they do it. Why does it seem like every few weeks there is some new scandel with SOE. Cheating devs, producers telling their customers off, blindsiding players with mammoth changes, breaking promises about game direction, etc.
Maybe if you had taken a stance once in a while you wouldn't have a company that make these drastic changes you (or others) don't like. A company that ignores bugs for years (your words not mine). A company that thinks it is acceptable to thrust yet another controversial unannounced change onto the game that they damn well know people will quit over. It is sad when their design process factors in how upset the community will be and what level of anger is acceptable (see bruce ferguson interview for detail) Again, the future of MMOs does not matter. When new games come out that have item malls then players will have all the knowledge BEFORE purchasing the game and knowing what they are getting into. EQ2 is a P2P game that was promised not to have RMT put in it. What matters is SOEs promise to not do this, the manner in which they have went about doing it, the playerbase who said they did not want this.
Just because you chose to overlook where this is going and how it negatively affects your fellow game players does not in any way make it justifable. Can you name me one reason why this content that is normally free, but now is resold to the players is good?
There is a word I am looking for that describes this, but it escapes me right now. Complacency is the closest I can think of.
Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea!
I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%. I have been so far from that, you got no idea what you are talking about. I fought and complained about many things over the years with SOE. Some issues I won. I had direct effect on the shadow bug (which was a big issue for me) Other things I lost like the horrible NGE. It is cool you disagree with me even strongly but do not presume you know anything about me and my 4 year + commitment to EQ2 in the face of ridiculous statement like the one you used to describe me. I have taken more then my share of crap for my support of EQ2. I love the game and play it I support it not cry and whine and try to get everyone to quit over something that does not sit well with me. That is not complacency that is loyalty. Loyalty means sometime you take the bad with the good and try to fix the bad if you can. If you are an active player working to remove the item mall I give you credit even though I disagree on its impact in game. If you do not play or quit over it then you really do not got much to say about it. Except obviously insulting the players who work hard to keep EQ2 alive in the face of a often hard to understand developer.
*claps* About damned time someone said that to the haters.
SoE as a company has been implementing questionable tactics for years and the ones to get it in the back is the customer base, and for what? the possibility of SoE making more money....which has yet to work in their favor i might add.
EQ is the perfect example of SoE being hungry for player cash.....EQ was released in 1999, between 1999 and 2008 no less than 15 expansions have been released...this is the largest single grouping of expansions ever released for one game, and most of these expansions were around 30-40 dollars on release.
SoE doesn't care about your support, they don't care about your dedication to them...they care about your money.
I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately.
i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME.....
what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
some of us aren't upset about it being RMT. I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately. i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME..... what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
some of us aren't upset about it being RMT. I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately. i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME..... what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
Again like some others, you speak as if you know me. You do not know me in the slightest. Addicted? Right. Mmos are my hobby not my life. Addicted are you out of your mind? I won't leave because there are problems? What? Again what fantasyland are you from? I play EQ2 because I enjoy it ,a lot. However SOE did make me some magic brew that blinded me to their problems and made me an addicted zombie EQ2 player willing to give them money against my will. You see I am so addicted I can not take responsibilites for my actions.
Do you have any idea of my post history here? I play WoW, and Guild Wars currently both since launch. I have played LoTRO for over a year. Saga of Ryzom for over 2 years. SWG from beta to NGE. Dungeon and Dragons online for a year. Others Ultima Online, Sims Online, Flyyff, ROSE, Silkroads Online, Lineage II, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Anarchy Online, Second Life, and others. You see mmos are a very serious hobby of mine. I also go to E3 and have been to the Tokyo Game Show. I love mmos and follow the industry. I have current friends and former students in the industry. That is why I play these games. I have no trouble leaving a game I love. Took me less then 2 hours to cancel my SWG sub the day NGE went live and that still is my favorite game ever. It took that long because I want to say goodbye and pass on my game wealth to others who stayed. You see i did not try to get them to leave. If they were having fun great I wasn't. I did not need to insult them for playing or point out they were addicted or delusional. Unlike others here I do not find it necessary to tell others how to spend their entertainment budget.
We are talking about EQ2 and the idea that this is some sort of scam. I do not see it as a scam. I enjoy EQ2 and disconnect my hate for NGE from EQ2. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 is bad enough for me to leave. It has absolutely nothing to do with an addiction. I like the game! Until you accept that then you do not understand any of my comments and reasoning behind my statements reguarding EQ2.
I will add your stupid comment about me to the list, addicted, employee of SOE, Viral marketer, a friend of Smed, living off my parents credit card, living in their basement, the list goes on and on. It is amazing in this thread alone the ridiculous statements people have made about me based on nothing said here just some fantasy notions about me. Very entertaining indeed.
LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
sometimes it's not about 'addiction' 90% of the game is something my wife and i can agree on. we play together. she heals my sorry butt when she thinks i deserve it, and it's a good way for us to spend time together. even if we only play 2 hrs a month it's cheaper than us going to a movie night for that month.....
and i'm also on the list of ... played EQ, EQII, WOW, LOTRO, Vanguard, CoH, dot dot dot, etc etc etc. EQII is (except for this one point that i have a problem with (at the moment)) the best game for what i'm looking for...... when the 'next generation comes out' with all their Microtransactions in place i'll be ready for it and accepting it going in. not 'blindsided by it right after an expansion...... but again, that's just my perspective.....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
Originally posted by eccoton Again like some others, you speak as if you know me. You do not know me in the slightest. Addicted? Right. Mmos are my hobby not my life.
Online folks don't need to know if you wipe your butt with your right or left hand to know your thoughts -- your posting history tells enough. That's the face folks see, Eccoton. That's the face folks will judge you on. Not your RL; nor what you're done in EQ2; nor what you've done at 1001 other places online and off.
As much as you see those who quit EQ2 as haters, I see you as someone who rather stay in a game and make others who disagree with EQ2's direction or have left the game miserable. You like to paint EQ2 so rosey, and pooh-pooh or ignore it's flaws, even.
Do you know about the Fighter 2.0 changes coming up? Something so important that is in the works that will turn classes upside down, and not a peep to a new inquiring player? It's that type of blinders that can make yet another "hater" out of EQ2 when they took the copy and paste salesman advice at stock value, only to find in 2 months or so their uber decked out fighter/healer/wizzy is end-game trash.
If you truly love the game, you must acknowledge the good and the bad, and tell folks the truth -- not just what you want them to read.
Comments
Eccoton, SOE is doing his best to milk the cow.
How can you praise SOE when you see the results in SWG with TGC? You paid for virtual cards without being certain of getting an item and even more getting the item you want. Some people are spending hunderd $, this is worse than the casino.
I'm not against TGC and I have thousands of Magic the gathering cards. But theses are 2 different games. Also they are real paper cards that have resell value.
I'm not against RMT in general but SOE way to do so is just plain wrong. Once again they are screwing the customers.
The connection to the card games is obvious and a smart decision. There is a whole new generation that is ok with spending money on virtual items and loves these card type games. Why not tie them into an mmo? WoW is doing this as well with its codes you get from the cards (real cards). Also most people buy the cards to play the game. SOE is not counting on the income from those that buy a bunch of cards for that item and do not play the card game. Yes there are people who do that, which I do not understand, and SOE benefits. Gambling on a loot cards is a lot different then an item mall. I have no problem with the cards but I have been addressing item malls in my responses. They are not the samething and should not be consider as such. Milking the cow is what they are in business for. I guess we see that analogy differently.
I understand your point but this is hardly worst then a casino. Much like someone connecting this to cigarettes or in one post someone was actually say the selfish use of item mall is why there is homelessness. These are games and entertainment. How each chooses, to spend their time and money is their own business.
Companies like SOE are tapping into a new way and generation of gamers/mmo players. I think we are starting to see the first generation gaps in mmos. There are a lot of older players who long for the good old days. Funny I am an older gamer and I am sure one of the older (not oldest!) regular posters here. Even in the "real world" I look to the future and embrace change. I do so in my virtual world as well. This network of game styles and payment methods will be even more tied together in the future into large virtual experiences made up of lots of variety. Item malls are just one part of that change. Don't be suprise to see see in an mmo in the future with the reverse of this idea as well. You will go to an ingame vendor and but a matching "real" hat as your avitar and have it shipped to your "real" house. If you are into virtual persistent worlds, which I assume you are since you are here, get ready for some big changes.
Ecco, We are in full agreement on where SOE thinks the MMO future is. I understand they are banking on the PS3 and RMT transactions. None of this is something I do not understand. I will go you one futher in that SOE realizes they cannot compete in the subscription market with other companies right now and the future of their division in lost if they have to rely on the MMOs they have now. Their marketshare has been shriveling up to the point where it will not be a sustainable model for them unless their new games are successful.
Now all of that aside it does not justify what is being done here. Not one bit and in now way deserves applause of all things rational. There is no reason to applaud SOE for renegging on their promises just so they can built better games in the future. This just shows how little they care for their current players.
SOE and Smdley promised this sort of thing would not happen to the Everquest series of games. It doesn't matter how they want to twist words now and redefine what was said in the past, the message was loud and clear then as it is now. Some people stuck with SOE based on those assurances. Now here we are and RMT is being crammed down the throat of the players once again.
Do you really think the players concerns will somehow be soothed by the fact that this is being tested for a future SOE game [a game which they may never even play]? Do you think it is somehow ok to force this type of thing on customers who have in the past said in no uncertain terms that they do not want this just so SOE can build games they will never play? Once again SOE is using their games to cater to the "potential future customer" at the expense of their current players. That is something you want to stand up and congratulate?
Also a fact for you that you keep dodging. The "fluff" items that you are now paying for were previously free. SOE removing what they would would have been free and instead reselling it to the player base is not a net gain for the players. It is a net loss even if you enjoy buying items. It ia a step in the wrong direction for THE PLAYERS OF EQ/EQ2. It doesn't matter what SOE does in their future games. It doesn't matter how smart they are about what the market holds for their prediction. What matters is right now people are being charged a second time for content.
That is not something to be applauded, ever.
Summary
Can you tell me why people should be applauding SOE again? This just proves once again that they do not listen to their players and they have not learned from their past mistakes. It is business as usual for SOE no matter how much the fans want to forgive them or overlook what they do.
P.S. My smoking analogy wasn't trying to link SOE to cancer or homelessness or any of the worlds problems. If that is how you choose to twist it then my words are lost on you.
You also know the CEO of SoE also PROMISED that RMT will not be introduced to the mainline PvE servers?
I specifically looked for a MMO for these two issues...
1. A good tradeskill side of the game.
2. No item mall.
I canceled my account promptly over #2, as I won't endorse gambling, especially with a company that thinks 2 addictions for a price of one is "fun". Seen what it does in F2P games, and refuse to be a party to it.
Their current "business model" is a scam, truly.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Really I don't know who's posts are worst yours or AmazingAvery ones.
At least he's a Fanboi and I can excuse his blind statements for that, whereas you are obviously clairvoyant. Maybe the difference between us lies in the following: I play LotRo because of the way they take care of their customers. I leave SOE special treatment to people like you.
Funny is I took a Turbine survey about RMT and I said yes I'm willing to pay RMT for most of their stuff. This because I do know they don't cheat players. Not only it will be optional but also it won't break any game play core elements.
I'm all for change but for improvements not regression.
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
Did it ever occur to you already pay a monthly fee for P2P MMO's and that this stuff they put into the cash shop would normally be put into the game for free? Simply because you pay a montly fee already, so the developers can maintain the game, continue developing it to add new stuff!
It's people like you that let companies get away with it and start implementing cash shops ON TOP of your monthly fee!
The result of all this is that NOTHING will be added for free anymore to the game! NOTHING!
As why would they? When people like you are willing to throw money at them through a cash shop.
So instead of having great FREE updates with fun event quest chains providing you with these fluff rewards and thus EARNING it ingame.... wich makes MMO's so fun. As you are able to do something else then just grind for gear only!
You are from now on FORCED to use the Cash Shop to obtain new (Fluff) stuff!
Without earning it! Without playing the game itself for it!
Sorry tho. But that's not how I like to play MMO's from now on.
And if you cannot see the damage being done by slapping this system on an existing game that is around for over 4 years??
Cheers
And just as a point of interest, yesterday SOE began offering a new series of "fluff" game items for sale in exchange for real money. Among the new "fluff" items available for purchase is the ability to increase your movement rate in the game (I beleive it was by 50%).
Understandably, the folks on the PVP servers are up in arms.
It is no longer a matter of if SOE will sell game-changing items in EQ2. They have already begun.
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
Did it ever occur to you already pay a monthly fee for P2P MMO's and that this stuff they put into the cash shop would normally be put into the game for free? Simply because you pay a montly fee already, so the developers can maintain the game, continue developing it to add new stuff!
It's people like you that let companies get away with it and start implementing cash shops ON TOP of your monthly fee!
The result of all this is that NOTHING will be added for free anymore to the game! NOTHING!
As why would they? When people like you are willing to throw money at them through a cash shop.
So instead of having great FREE updates with fun event quest chains providing you with these fluff rewards and thus EARNING it ingame.... wich makes MMO's so fun. As you are able to do something else then just grind for gear only!
You are from now on FORCED to use the Cash Shop to obtain new (Fluff) stuff!
Without earning it! Without playing the game itself for it!
Sorry tho. But that's not how I like to play MMO's from now on.
And if you cannot see the damage being done by slapping this system on an existing game that is around for over 4 years??
Cheers
Nope I do not see the damage. I have stated my opinion clearly on this matter and my opinion where I see mmos going with this idea in the future.
As far as this notion you have of earning it. I for one have been playing EQ2 since beta and am continuing playing now. Unlike many posting here who quit or played a year or two. After all these years I got nothing to prove to you or anyone about my time and skill in EQ2. So do not try to hold this idea of earning anything in EQ2 as some sort of proof of commitment or worth. "Without playing the game itself"? I guarantee I have played more and earned more in EQ2 the you have or ever will ( i mean this in a general way to those suggesting if you buy something somehow you did not earn it or are dedicated at the game). I am the truely devoted EQ2 fan I simply do not see this idea of an item mall hurting EQ2 and certianly not worth quiting over. My buying a house pet does not deminish the years of accomplishment in EQ2 or hurt its future.You doubt me log on the the mistmoore server and come visit my houses, checkout my equipment, mounts, professions, quest count, and guild level. I have earned it! Just like I earned the 3 bucks for my house pet.
EQ2 is most likely not the cash cow you think it is. In fact the use of the item mall may help keep eq2 around longer not kill it. I am a true fan I stayed even when SOE made changes I was not to happy about or ignored bugs that were around for years. I stayed and was patient. I did not whine and quit at the first thing I did not like. I see no evidence with the new marketplace that it is hurting anyone in an unfair way. Until I do I will continue to support EQ2 even if it takes a couple buck over subscription once and awhile. Why? because I want eq2 around for years. Item malls will not kill eq2 it is people leaving then spending time posting how rotten it is, to save us all from our delusions we enjoy eq2. People who are actually in game are saying very little about the item mall. It is not an issue with most players in the slightest. I have played for over 4 years at 20+ hours a week I got nothing to prove to anyone. Neither do 1000s of other dedicted players who might enjoy an item mall.
Maybe if you had taken a stance once in a while you wouldn't have a company that make these drastic changes you (or others) don't like. A company that ignores bugs for years (your words not mine). A company that thinks it is acceptable to thrust yet another controversial unannounced change onto the game that they damn well know people will quit over. It is sad when their design process factors in how upset the community will be and what level of anger is acceptable (see bruce ferguson interview for detail)
Again, the future of MMOs does not matter. When new games come out that have item malls then players will have all the knowledge BEFORE purchasing the game and knowing what they are getting into. EQ2 is a P2P game that was promised not to have RMT put in it.
What matters is SOEs promise to not do this, the manner in which they have went about doing it, the playerbase who said they did not want this.
Just because you chose to overlook where this is going and how it negatively affects your fellow game players does not in any way make it justifable. Can you name me one reason why this content that is normally free, but now is resold to the players is good?
There is a word I am looking for that describes this, but it escapes me right now. Complacency is the closest I can think of.
SOE has given away mounts as rewards for pre-order. These mounts offer speed increases as well. They were free to those that bought the expansion box not everyone. I did not see players up in arms about that. If they will sell them? They have been selling them remember exp bonus potions, they are technically game changing as well. So your statement while, I understand what you are trying to say with it, is not really some new justification the SOE will soon be selling uber must have items.
Movement bonuses are hardly anything to be up in arms about. Now I do not play on a pvp server since eq2 was designed as a pve game. However I did try a pvp server for a few months and pvp in eq2 needs a lot more work then worring about a movement speed bonus. While pvp is in eq2, most players understand eq2 is a pve game.
Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea!
I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%. I have been so far from that, you got no idea what you are talking about. I fought and complained about many things over the years with SOE. Some issues I won. I had direct effect on the shadow bug (which was a big issue for me) Other things I lost like the horrible NGE. It is cool you disagree with me even strongly but do not presume you know anything about me and my 4 year + commitment to EQ2 in the face of ridiculous statement like the one you used to describe me. I have taken more then my share of crap for my support of EQ2. I love the game and play it I support it not cry and whine and try to get everyone to quit over something that does not sit well with me. That is not complacency that is loyalty. Loyalty means sometime you take the bad with the good and try to fix the bad if you can. If you are an active player working to remove the item mall I give you credit even though I disagree on its impact in game. If you do not play or quit over it then you really do not got much to say about it. Except obviously insulting the players who work hard to keep EQ2 alive in the face of a often hard to understand developer.
For those who don't know what SoE does to folks who are "interested" in EQ2...
www.massively.com/2008/03/18/losing-influence-with-soe-eq2-flames-admin-lfg-tells-all
BTW, I've spent countless hours mentoring players and I only played the game for 3 months straight (had close to 80hrs play time even). I've commented on the game mechanics. I've discussed the class issues --- but I don't get paid, or the high fives, or flown to San Diego to grope devs.
MMOs die on the vine because folks treat it like they believe it's their God given property. Discussions turn into personal attacks (or what they do best, "Hey mod" who they dislike).
Get it through that MEMEME wall: folks will disagree, and they'll passionately disagree, but the moment you tell them to F off, you exposed exactly the problem -- not the solution.
MMOs are many different people playing many different play styles. If a MMO can't cater to the largest populations even (and turning their games into fisticuffs between PvP and PvE players, or soloers vs. groupers) it's the games and genre that lose.
Understand also those who worked their butt off to get their gear -- and didn't cheat and didn't exploit the game to get there -- find it patently offensive to be in a game were anyone will get something without working for it. Secondly, the more RMT enters the genre, more other genres can stereotype MMO players as cheaters and mythicals who bought their gear on mommy and daddy's credit card.
Does that help EQ2? Does it help MMORPGs?
No.
People who invested so much time in their characters often can't see past themselves. Wake up. See it as a whole, not just MEMEME. This genre will die on the vine if it becomes even more insular and catty.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Likewise I have done my fair share of work with EQ2 and was one first name basis with some devs during my time on test server. Standing up for something you do not believe is good for the game let alone ethical for a company to do is not whining or crying. Quitting one of the very few things this company understands and historically the only thing they have responded to. Yet I am not telling you to quit, but I am saying this change sucks to the nth degree. Defending SOE on this and turning a blind eye to bad ethics is what empowers this company to continue this behavior.
Great that you have done hard work and got a shadow bug getting fixed after how many years was it? I know graphics/art is very very important to you and kudos on your victory. How did things fare for all the shitty business practices SOE pulls over the years. Even if you like these changes they slipped in during the middle of the night you have to admit that it is upsetting to many people who were promised this would never happen. You cannot deny this was a very shady way to introduce these things. Telling people it isn't a big deal and looking the other way though....
Loyalty is a very strange word to bring up in an SOE discussion. I cannot think of a more unfaithful MMO company if I tried to.
LOL. SOE screwing their customers? Id say their customers are screwing themselves. You people still giving them your money even though you are "unhappy" about it are the biggest bunch of morons. YOU are the ones allowing this to continue. You think they could do this without actually making anything? Its YOU PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM WHO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE. You are fueled by your own sad addiction that you can't even do whats right for yourselvs and stop giving them money. Good luck!
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
What I keep reading from you is that somehow the ends justify the means. That is what I was unable to put my finger on for a while now.
While many upset people are offended by the manner this was presented, the danger is poses to the game, the promises that are once again being broken, the deceit and lies surrounding the implementation.
EQ2 should be a cash cow, but the bad choices this company has made time and time again have cost it marketshare. This is a shining example of that decision process by SOE that has in fact put EQ2 and SOE as a whole in the position it is right now. The trust bond between SOE and the customer keeps getting stepped on.
Believe it or not I used to be a very devoted fan like yourself, but eventually I got fed up with this type of thing. Enough was enough for me and the ends stopped being more important than the means they were achieved. I could not overlook it anymore regardless of what justification was being offered. I knew nothing was going to change until this company changed leadership.
I really hope that the management of SOE gets flushed, because I really think underneath all the mismanagement is a group of passionate game designers waiting to have the restraints removed. Almost every single big problem with SOE games can be traced back to senior level management decisions. Release dates, major game change directions, many numerous revenue changes, the manner in which the community is treated, etc. It all relates back to the top level people who make these choices and the manner in which they do it.
Why does it seem like every few weeks there is some new scandel with SOE. Cheating devs, producers telling their customers off, blindsiding players with mammoth changes, breaking promises about game direction, etc.
Hear the truth.
Nice try, but I am and have never been complacent. You know nothing about me. My years of posting on the offical forums on bug issues even e-mails and phone calls. I was relentless about a little thing like the disappearing shadow bug. For two years I documented it and in the face of SOE publicly saying they could not find or reproduce it I kept on. You know what? Since I and others were not complacent they finally admited the bug was real and fixed it. I worked hard to document and post about the many vista issues and SOE fixed them. I have helped 100s of player both in game and on forums to understand the overly complicated tech issues with EQ2. I have dedicated endless hour to the EQ2 community in and outside of the game by mentoring new players. So do not even suggest I have never took a stance or am complacent. I am a totally dedicated EQ2 player. Overlook the item mall? Wrong again, I actively participate in it! How many time do I need to say this I like the idea!
I rarely do this. Take your description of me as being complacent and stick up your #$%. I have been so far from that, you got no idea what you are talking about. I fought and complained about many things over the years with SOE. Some issues I won. I had direct effect on the shadow bug (which was a big issue for me) Other things I lost like the horrible NGE. It is cool you disagree with me even strongly but do not presume you know anything about me and my 4 year + commitment to EQ2 in the face of ridiculous statement like the one you used to describe me. I have taken more then my share of crap for my support of EQ2. I love the game and play it I support it not cry and whine and try to get everyone to quit over something that does not sit well with me. That is not complacency that is loyalty. Loyalty means sometime you take the bad with the good and try to fix the bad if you can. If you are an active player working to remove the item mall I give you credit even though I disagree on its impact in game. If you do not play or quit over it then you really do not got much to say about it. Except obviously insulting the players who work hard to keep EQ2 alive in the face of a often hard to understand developer.
*claps* About damned time someone said that to the haters.
I also agree with Daffid
SoE as a company has been implementing questionable tactics for years and the ones to get it in the back is the customer base, and for what? the possibility of SoE making more money....which has yet to work in their favor i might add.
EQ is the perfect example of SoE being hungry for player cash.....EQ was released in 1999, between 1999 and 2008 no less than 15 expansions have been released...this is the largest single grouping of expansions ever released for one game, and most of these expansions were around 30-40 dollars on release.
SoE doesn't care about your support, they don't care about your dedication to them...they care about your money.
some of us aren't upset about it being RMT.
I do not like RMT, but i see it is the 'way of things to come' unfortunately.
i dont' want to use RMT or MicroTransactions in a subscription game, but i see it will be the way of things to come, as i said. the emphasis here though is TO COME.....
what SOE has done with this implementation after the great and glorious Smedley has said "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement." is WRONG. period. end of statement.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
Its a BUSINESS. This isn't personal. Stop trying to make it so.
if i run a business that is customer driven, in that there is no 'merchandise' merely a service i offer for x dollars a month ... i dunno.. lets say 15. and i make a statement to my customers that i am going to implement a feature with my service, but i'm going to do it in a way that those that don't want that feature don't have to be involved with it... i dunno... making the above statement regarding Station Exchange and how RMT won't be on any other servers. I then arbitrarily change my mind with ... i dunno... station cash. it may not be personal, but it's a pretty sad way to run a business that relies on subscriptions of the people i just lied to....
but what do i know, i'm not a president of an international game manufacturer... maybe that makes sense on some level. i dunno.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
Again like some others, you speak as if you know me. You do not know me in the slightest. Addicted? Right. Mmos are my hobby not my life. Addicted are you out of your mind? I won't leave because there are problems? What? Again what fantasyland are you from? I play EQ2 because I enjoy it ,a lot. However SOE did make me some magic brew that blinded me to their problems and made me an addicted zombie EQ2 player willing to give them money against my will. You see I am so addicted I can not take responsibilites for my actions.
Do you have any idea of my post history here? I play WoW, and Guild Wars currently both since launch. I have played LoTRO for over a year. Saga of Ryzom for over 2 years. SWG from beta to NGE. Dungeon and Dragons online for a year. Others Ultima Online, Sims Online, Flyyff, ROSE, Silkroads Online, Lineage II, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Anarchy Online, Second Life, and others. You see mmos are a very serious hobby of mine. I also go to E3 and have been to the Tokyo Game Show. I love mmos and follow the industry. I have current friends and former students in the industry. That is why I play these games. I have no trouble leaving a game I love. Took me less then 2 hours to cancel my SWG sub the day NGE went live and that still is my favorite game ever. It took that long because I want to say goodbye and pass on my game wealth to others who stayed. You see i did not try to get them to leave. If they were having fun great I wasn't. I did not need to insult them for playing or point out they were addicted or delusional. Unlike others here I do not find it necessary to tell others how to spend their entertainment budget.
We are talking about EQ2 and the idea that this is some sort of scam. I do not see it as a scam. I enjoy EQ2 and disconnect my hate for NGE from EQ2. Nothing SOE has done to EQ2 is bad enough for me to leave. It has absolutely nothing to do with an addiction. I like the game! Until you accept that then you do not understand any of my comments and reasoning behind my statements reguarding EQ2.
I will add your stupid comment about me to the list, addicted, employee of SOE, Viral marketer, a friend of Smed, living off my parents credit card, living in their basement, the list goes on and on. It is amazing in this thread alone the ridiculous statements people have made about me based on nothing said here just some fantasy notions about me. Very entertaining indeed.
Those who stick with EQ2 are stuck because of the addiction and time invested in their army of alts. Often they can't see beyond their own main and alts. EQ2 is a very insular community. Some will be playing and crafting right to the last second the servers are unplugged (and then later probably spend months talking about past times). Eccoton is a prime example, he knows there's problems but won't leave even if the SS SoE Titanic will go down -- probably even refuse to get on a lifeboat or even wear a life preserver.
Those who left aren't paying a red cent to SoE.
The only thing folks can do is WARN new players not to become another addict, and hopefully save the game and the genre from it's own narcissim.
sometimes it's not about 'addiction' 90% of the game is something my wife and i can agree on. we play together. she heals my sorry butt when she thinks i deserve it, and it's a good way for us to spend time together. even if we only play 2 hrs a month it's cheaper than us going to a movie night for that month.....
and i'm also on the list of ... played EQ, EQII, WOW, LOTRO, Vanguard, CoH, dot dot dot, etc etc etc. EQII is (except for this one point that i have a problem with (at the moment)) the best game for what i'm looking for...... when the 'next generation comes out' with all their Microtransactions in place i'll be ready for it and accepting it going in. not 'blindsided by it right after an expansion...... but again, that's just my perspective.....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
Online folks don't need to know if you wipe your butt with your right or left hand to know your thoughts -- your posting history tells enough. That's the face folks see, Eccoton. That's the face folks will judge you on. Not your RL; nor what you're done in EQ2; nor what you've done at 1001 other places online and off.
As much as you see those who quit EQ2 as haters, I see you as someone who rather stay in a game and make others who disagree with EQ2's direction or have left the game miserable. You like to paint EQ2 so rosey, and pooh-pooh or ignore it's flaws, even.
Do you know about the Fighter 2.0 changes coming up? Something so important that is in the works that will turn classes upside down, and not a peep to a new inquiring player? It's that type of blinders that can make yet another "hater" out of EQ2 when they took the copy and paste salesman advice at stock value, only to find in 2 months or so their uber decked out fighter/healer/wizzy is end-game trash.
If you truly love the game, you must acknowledge the good and the bad, and tell folks the truth -- not just what you want them to read.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.