I've been a regular lurker on this site for a while but I wanted to step in here and dispel something that's just plain not true - I don't have my name highlighted here, but anyone that doubts it's me can email me at [email protected] and I'll happily reply. We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John Smedley
Oh get over it. Its not a scam, its greed, and its not as though they're the only ones to do it.
I go one further, it is not greed. It is business maybe not the best idea but far from a greedy conspiracy. I would imagine EQ2 and EQ are not the huge cash cows many think they are. They need to generate revenue to keep afloat. The mmo world is changing, WOW ushered this in with its huge revenues.
SOE is banking on a big changes soon with the release of The Agency and DC Universe both going to console. What I think is SOE is experimenting with different payment methods and their two solid mmos are eq/eq2 so that is where they are going to test. While this may seem like a connection to the NGE disaster and the "lies" that seem to be connected into one web of deceit. At least some think this, like a big conspiracy by SOE to screw its customers out of all their money, while shoving 10s down the g-strings of strippers. I come to another conclusion; SOE is just trying to do business in a changing mmo market, that they helped make popular with the classic EQ, by trying to be competitive in todays WOW saturated market place.
SOE has made good decisions and bad decisions. They are a business not a charity. Mmo players are uniquely passionate about their games and when they go a different direction the players feel it personally like no other game experience. I simply think SOE is just trying to do business. If you want to play an mmo for years you will have to get use to them changing. The days of them trudging on for years exactly the way you first bought them are swiftly coming to an end.
It's not greed or conspiracy, it is business. Even with all the emotions invested in mmos, simple, if you do not like it do not buy it, and if it changes in a direction you will not tolerate, leave. That is how you get these developers to listen. The evil Smed. is not the only one making these decisions at SOE. SOE is trying to deal in a world wide mmo market. Not a market for just one style or even nationality of player. Item malls, a good idea? Not sure, the jury will be out on that for awhile. SOE going to far and scamming its customers? Na, just a questionable business decision. They are testing this idea.
[edit]
I just found this interview after I wrote the above. I find it interesting.
Is there an element of waiting for the community's reaction here?
John: We want to wait and see how this goes. We want to learn from this. I get that early on there is an initial shock, but the simple reality is that the items we put out there are very carefully balanced. They're not big power items. They're fun and they're convenient. That's all they are. We're not selling power. There are a lot of respectable viewpoints on this, and a lot of reasonable people can disagree on them.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else.
Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle.
I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else. Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle. I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else. Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle. I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
There are 2 kinds of changes, good ones and bad ones. That a company charges for things like cusomization (And I am bot talking SOE and Blizzard here) is just stupid, they are already getting $15 a month and that should be good enough to cover all those things.
Things like this is not a slight to the customers but a way to milk more cashout of them. Greed with other words.
Right now there seems to be 2 kinds of companies that make MMOs, greedy and not greedy. The greedy ones have SOE and Blizzard in top, charging you for small things while the non greedy have Arenanet in top, who don't charge anything 'cept for the game and expansion packs. Wonder which company I will buy the next game from?
I played EQ2 for a year or so(Jan 07-may08), quited because I felt burnt out and was just considering starting again but no thanks. Legends of Norrath was a sign that SOE tries to get out more cash from thier current players instead of making the game better so they get more new players.
Off course game companies need to get cash as anyone else but Arenanet seems to be doing fine without any monthly fees or additional crap, making games is like making music, once you start to only do things for cash the products start to suck.
I actually been positive to many of the changes in EQ2, like fashion slots, the crafting system and the guildhalls sound like a good idea too. Stuff that only is about cash however is not anything to be happy over. SOE problem have always been that they don't listen to their customers, that is why SWG is so small today and now they seems to be killing of EQ 1& 2.
I'm usually the first person to agree with game comapnies and defend them. I could buy that they are trying this out as a new model for their business.
IF there had been ample and loud and clear warning and an explanation on why they would do this PRIOR to doing it. Their marketing and communication to the public went from piss poor to down right devious. I wasn't there for the NGE so I don't know about that I can't refer to that, what I know is that I've just been lied to, would have had a chance to take a poll already in favor of the issue if only I had logged in that day/week.
How underhanded and ridiculous. This is not a company I want to do business with. If you do and forgive them all that, that's your choice but don't dare call out people who do feel cheated.
Also to many people cash shops in a p2p game is not something we believe in, no matter what your rebuttals are nothing will ever change that. SOE knew this perfectly well and ignored the fact.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else. Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle. I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
This isn't peanuts, honey. Its not a lifethreatening condition. Its adding something to a GAME that you don't like. I don't like PvP. In fact, I loath it. Yet I didn't bitch and moan when they added it, I just don't take part in it. Thats the adult thing to do. If you don't like nuts in a chocolate bar, are you going to bitch and moan because they added nuts? Or are you just going to stop buying the chocolate bar and move on?
Its not like they just suddenly increased prices without telling anyone. They just added something that you don't like to the game. Something OPTIONAL.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else. Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle. I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
There are 2 kinds of changes, good ones and bad ones. That a company charges for things like cusomization (And I am bot talking SOE and Blizzard here) is just stupid, they are already getting $15 a month and that should be good enough to cover all those things.
Things like this is not a slight to the customers but a way to milk more cashout of them. Greed with other words.
Right now there seems to be 2 kinds of companies that make MMOs, greedy and not greedy. The greedy ones have SOE and Blizzard in top, charging you for small things while the non greedy have Arenanet in top, who don't charge anything 'cept for the game and expansion packs. Wonder which company I will buy the next game from?
I played EQ2 for a year or so(Jan 07-may08), quited because I felt burnt out and was just considering starting again but no thanks. Legends of Norrath was a sign that SOE tries to get out more cash from thier current players instead of making the game better so they get more new players.
Off course game companies need to get cash as anyone else but Arenanet seems to be doing fine without any monthly fees or additional crap, making games is like making music, once you start to only do things for cash the products start to suck.
I actually been positive to many of the changes in EQ2, like fashion slots, the crafting system and the guildhalls sound like a good idea too. Stuff that only is about cash however is not anything to be happy over. SOE problem have always been that they don't listen to their customers, that is why SWG is so small today and now they seems to be killing of EQ 1& 2.
Again... so what? You don't like the changes, move on. its really as simple as that. In other aspects of your life, you don't go about moaning about it for weeks, months, or even years after the changes unless its something devastating like the death of someone you love. You just move on. Stop trying to turn it into something it isn't.
Seriously... your favorite hotels rates go up, do you continue to moan about it months or years after the fact? Or do you just move on? You are overreacting.
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else. Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle. I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
This isn't peanuts, honey. Its not a lifethreatening condition. Its adding something to a GAME that you don't like. I don't like PvP. In fact, I loath it. Yet I didn't bitch and moan when they added it, I just don't take part in it. Thats the adult thing to do. If you don't like nuts in a chocolate bar, are you going to bitch and moan because they added nuts? Or are you just going to stop buying the chocolate bar and move on?
Its not like they just suddenly increased prices without telling anyone. They just added something that you don't like to the game. Something OPTIONAL.
k fine not allergic i just dont like peanuts,
and fine ill bite (no pun intended), i wont buy from them anymore, but what about the other 2 boxes i payed for? i dont have them and they have my money.
its not charity what i do, i give money , i get whatever i gave the money for, not something else
The statement you posted from Smedley said "non-exhange enabled servers". Is this on all the servers or just the exchange servers? And where did they say you were forced to use it?
when it gives people an unfair or unnatural advantage outside of the existing game design architecture you are in fact in some form forced to use it, or forced to not use it and be at a disadvantage to other people who pay for this server to "jump" "skip" or "advance" in the game through means not dictated through game's design features. so yes once again, in some form you are forced whether you decide to use it, or not.
to make matters worse you paying extra fee's for a game that already has a payment model where you pay $14.99 a month for the existing game. its insult to injury for a game that isnt designed for that.
its like slapping a sail on a car and calling it a boat.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
Sounds like bs to me, P2P games should not have item shops, but if they do it should be for aesthetic purposes only. Nobody should get an advantage because they are willing to pay more money, its still hurting the game just as much as the other companies that sell gold. SOE is just trying to cash in on that market as well, since its so hard to get rid of gold farmers.
Now if other game companies do the same thing, I'd be pissed. They should be trying to find other ways to get rid of the farmers instead of condoning it by doing RMT themselves. I don't see why people like to spend real money for fake money in a game, just to buy some cool stuff. Why not earn it, you'll feel like you accomplished something.
Or better yet, how about you give me the money and I'll give you some monopoly money. I have paypal pm if you want some fake money. lol Current rates are $100 for 1,000 monopoly dollars.
First they release this overpriced expansion for EQ2 and we realise it's gonna take a long time to get achievment xp ingame. Then out of nowhere the live servers gets patched with STATION CASH where you can buy achievment xp potions for a completly outrageous price!
The greed is fucking horrible and it sucks to be playing a game where you have both subscription, eq2players fee, legends of norrath crap and now this fucking bad idea of station cash. The greed is endless.
the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.
the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.
Just to let you know there are no ACHIEVMENT XP potions among the veteran rewards. (Yes, I'm a 5 year vet.)
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
Well said Daffid .. 100%
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.
Just to let you know there are no ACHIEVMENT XP potions among the veteran rewards. (Yes, I'm a 5 year vet.)
the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.
That's 8000 from Sony, you know the big giant responsible for playstations, batteries, computers and what not? NOT Sony Online Entertainment.
Using the economy is a poor excuse, if that was the real issue they should have been forward about it and explained it in that light, you might not have seen such an uproar. But that's not how it happened, at all, the only explanation they gave is that they are trying to bring in more 'fun' and that they added the cash shop after our feedback.
That's called lying. Call it backhanded, underhanded, devious whatever it's still the same thing.
Originally posted by Daffid011 If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
Moirae is not naive. She is an employee of SOE. Her job is to suppressive criticism of EQ 2. Check her post history. Take that into consideration as you read her replies regarding the introduction of CS.
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Quoted for epicness
I go one further, it is not greed. It is business maybe not the best idea but far from a greedy conspiracy. I would imagine EQ2 and EQ are not the huge cash cows many think they are. They need to generate revenue to keep afloat. The mmo world is changing, WOW ushered this in with its huge revenues.
SOE is banking on a big changes soon with the release of The Agency and DC Universe both going to console. What I think is SOE is experimenting with different payment methods and their two solid mmos are eq/eq2 so that is where they are going to test. While this may seem like a connection to the NGE disaster and the "lies" that seem to be connected into one web of deceit. At least some think this, like a big conspiracy by SOE to screw its customers out of all their money, while shoving 10s down the g-strings of strippers. I come to another conclusion; SOE is just trying to do business in a changing mmo market, that they helped make popular with the classic EQ, by trying to be competitive in todays WOW saturated market place.
SOE has made good decisions and bad decisions. They are a business not a charity. Mmo players are uniquely passionate about their games and when they go a different direction the players feel it personally like no other game experience. I simply think SOE is just trying to do business. If you want to play an mmo for years you will have to get use to them changing. The days of them trudging on for years exactly the way you first bought them are swiftly coming to an end.
It's not greed or conspiracy, it is business. Even with all the emotions invested in mmos, simple, if you do not like it do not buy it, and if it changes in a direction you will not tolerate, leave. That is how you get these developers to listen. The evil Smed. is not the only one making these decisions at SOE. SOE is trying to deal in a world wide mmo market. Not a market for just one style or even nationality of player. Item malls, a good idea? Not sure, the jury will be out on that for awhile. SOE going to far and scamming its customers? Na, just a questionable business decision. They are testing this idea.
[edit]
I just found this interview after I wrote the above. I find it interesting.
Is there an element of waiting for the community's reaction here?
John: We want to wait and see how this goes. We want to learn from this. I get that early on there is an initial shock, but the simple reality is that the items we put out there are very carefully balanced. They're not big power items. They're fun and they're convenient. That's all they are. We're not selling power. There are a lot of respectable viewpoints on this, and a lot of reasonable people can disagree on them.
Our view is that nothing here is gamebreaking.
www.massively.com/2008/12/12/soe-ceo-john-smedley-explains-the-station-cash-service-roll-out/
Thank you eccoton, well said and quite true. It never ceases to amaze me how MMO players react to any sort of change to their games. They behave as though its a personal attack when it isn't. Its just an attempt to make money. These games aren't here for any reason other to make money, just like everything else.
Its like a hotel charging for local calls. Honestly local calls are free so why does the hotel charge for them? Because its just business and its about money. Nothing more, nothing less. And its most definately NOT a personal slight against their clientelle.
I really don't think most of them understand the meaning of the word "scam", either.
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
There are 2 kinds of changes, good ones and bad ones. That a company charges for things like cusomization (And I am bot talking SOE and Blizzard here) is just stupid, they are already getting $15 a month and that should be good enough to cover all those things.
Things like this is not a slight to the customers but a way to milk more cashout of them. Greed with other words.
Right now there seems to be 2 kinds of companies that make MMOs, greedy and not greedy. The greedy ones have SOE and Blizzard in top, charging you for small things while the non greedy have Arenanet in top, who don't charge anything 'cept for the game and expansion packs. Wonder which company I will buy the next game from?
I played EQ2 for a year or so(Jan 07-may08), quited because I felt burnt out and was just considering starting again but no thanks. Legends of Norrath was a sign that SOE tries to get out more cash from thier current players instead of making the game better so they get more new players.
Off course game companies need to get cash as anyone else but Arenanet seems to be doing fine without any monthly fees or additional crap, making games is like making music, once you start to only do things for cash the products start to suck.
I actually been positive to many of the changes in EQ2, like fashion slots, the crafting system and the guildhalls sound like a good idea too. Stuff that only is about cash however is not anything to be happy over. SOE problem have always been that they don't listen to their customers, that is why SWG is so small today and now they seems to be killing of EQ 1& 2.
I'm usually the first person to agree with game comapnies and defend them. I could buy that they are trying this out as a new model for their business.
IF there had been ample and loud and clear warning and an explanation on why they would do this PRIOR to doing it. Their marketing and communication to the public went from piss poor to down right devious. I wasn't there for the NGE so I don't know about that I can't refer to that, what I know is that I've just been lied to, would have had a chance to take a poll already in favor of the issue if only I had logged in that day/week.
How underhanded and ridiculous. This is not a company I want to do business with. If you do and forgive them all that, that's your choice but don't dare call out people who do feel cheated.
Also to many people cash shops in a p2p game is not something we believe in, no matter what your rebuttals are nothing will ever change that. SOE knew this perfectly well and ignored the fact.
The end.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
This isn't peanuts, honey. Its not a lifethreatening condition. Its adding something to a GAME that you don't like. I don't like PvP. In fact, I loath it. Yet I didn't bitch and moan when they added it, I just don't take part in it. Thats the adult thing to do. If you don't like nuts in a chocolate bar, are you going to bitch and moan because they added nuts? Or are you just going to stop buying the chocolate bar and move on?
Its not like they just suddenly increased prices without telling anyone. They just added something that you don't like to the game. Something OPTIONAL.
There are 2 kinds of changes, good ones and bad ones. That a company charges for things like cusomization (And I am bot talking SOE and Blizzard here) is just stupid, they are already getting $15 a month and that should be good enough to cover all those things.
Things like this is not a slight to the customers but a way to milk more cashout of them. Greed with other words.
Right now there seems to be 2 kinds of companies that make MMOs, greedy and not greedy. The greedy ones have SOE and Blizzard in top, charging you for small things while the non greedy have Arenanet in top, who don't charge anything 'cept for the game and expansion packs. Wonder which company I will buy the next game from?
I played EQ2 for a year or so(Jan 07-may08), quited because I felt burnt out and was just considering starting again but no thanks. Legends of Norrath was a sign that SOE tries to get out more cash from thier current players instead of making the game better so they get more new players.
Off course game companies need to get cash as anyone else but Arenanet seems to be doing fine without any monthly fees or additional crap, making games is like making music, once you start to only do things for cash the products start to suck.
I actually been positive to many of the changes in EQ2, like fashion slots, the crafting system and the guildhalls sound like a good idea too. Stuff that only is about cash however is not anything to be happy over. SOE problem have always been that they don't listen to their customers, that is why SWG is so small today and now they seems to be killing of EQ 1& 2.
Again... so what? You don't like the changes, move on. its really as simple as that. In other aspects of your life, you don't go about moaning about it for weeks, months, or even years after the changes unless its something devastating like the death of someone you love. You just move on. Stop trying to turn it into something it isn't.
Seriously... your favorite hotels rates go up, do you continue to moan about it months or years after the fact? Or do you just move on? You are overreacting.
"They said it would NEVER come into EverQuest 2."
The statement you posted from Smedley said "non-exhange enabled servers".
Is this on all the servers or just the exchange servers? And where did they say you were forced to use it?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
i do think it is a scam, or bad business put it this way.
you are alergic to peanuts
a company says we will sell you peanut free chocolate bars in boxes, WE WILL NOT PUT ANY PEANUTS in them nor we have any future plans to do so.
you say ok ill take 3 full boxes then. (the comany says that they will take the money and send you 1 box at a time to be sure that the chocolate does not spoil. when you are done with one they will send you the other)
so you agree and pay them. first box comes, yay no peanuts, you eat it all, then you hear in the news that they have changed the plan to appeal to a bigger market who likes peanuts in their chocolate bar. next month you get your chocolate box (that you already payed for) but it has peanuts!!! and they do not make peanut free chocolates anymore...
so you have now 2 boxes that are just sitting there that you can't eat. company has your money and they do not give refunds.
This isn't peanuts, honey. Its not a lifethreatening condition. Its adding something to a GAME that you don't like. I don't like PvP. In fact, I loath it. Yet I didn't bitch and moan when they added it, I just don't take part in it. Thats the adult thing to do. If you don't like nuts in a chocolate bar, are you going to bitch and moan because they added nuts? Or are you just going to stop buying the chocolate bar and move on?
Its not like they just suddenly increased prices without telling anyone. They just added something that you don't like to the game. Something OPTIONAL.
k fine not allergic i just dont like peanuts,
and fine ill bite (no pun intended), i wont buy from them anymore, but what about the other 2 boxes i payed for? i dont have them and they have my money.
its not charity what i do, i give money , i get whatever i gave the money for, not something else
when it gives people an unfair or unnatural advantage outside of the existing game design architecture you are in fact in some form forced to use it, or forced to not use it and be at a disadvantage to other people who pay for this server to "jump" "skip" or "advance" in the game through means not dictated through game's design features. so yes once again, in some form you are forced whether you decide to use it, or not.
to make matters worse you paying extra fee's for a game that already has a payment model where you pay $14.99 a month for the existing game. its insult to injury for a game that isnt designed for that.
its like slapping a sail on a car and calling it a boat.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
SOE is run by a bunch of money hungry monkeys. This whole instance was them reminding us that Funcon is not the king.
SOE is the king
Anything SOE has their hands on I would advise to stay clear.
SHOHADAKU
I figure everyone who acutally plays or has played EQ or EQ2 and is affected by the station store learned to live with it , just doesnt see the horror, or has quit the game. What is interesting is how long the haters ( be it EQ, EQ2 or just sony in general which is hated ) will keep these threads going. How long has it been now guys, and what is the point? Trying to get everyone to boycott sony? Might be kinda tuff. I figure next i will see the posts on how naive i am and blind to the evil empire of sony or maybe im a sony fanboy. At least that will be a change from the whining.
I can so sympathize.
Sounds like bs to me, P2P games should not have item shops, but if they do it should be for aesthetic purposes only. Nobody should get an advantage because they are willing to pay more money, its still hurting the game just as much as the other companies that sell gold. SOE is just trying to cash in on that market as well, since its so hard to get rid of gold farmers.
Now if other game companies do the same thing, I'd be pissed. They should be trying to find other ways to get rid of the farmers instead of condoning it by doing RMT themselves. I don't see why people like to spend real money for fake money in a game, just to buy some cool stuff. Why not earn it, you'll feel like you accomplished something.
Or better yet, how about you give me the money and I'll give you some monopoly money.
I have paypal pm if you want some fake money. lol Current rates are $100 for 1,000 monopoly dollars.
$tation Ca$h ftl!
First they release this overpriced expansion for EQ2 and we realise it's gonna take a long time to get achievment xp ingame. Then out of nowhere the live servers gets patched with STATION CASH where you can buy achievment xp potions for a completly outrageous price!
The greed is fucking horrible and it sucks to be playing a game where you have both subscription, eq2players fee, legends of norrath crap and now this fucking bad idea of station cash. The greed is endless.
/Cancel account.
the xp pots in station cash are crap, you get better ones in the vetrean rewards, nothing in station cash effects the game play, at all, soe is trying to recover some revenue in the failing economy, they just laid off 8000 people, i would rather have em sell worthless junk that doesnt effect the game at all to idiots who will buy it instead of closing down eq2 which is my favorite fantasy mmo.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Just to let you know there are no ACHIEVMENT XP potions among the veteran rewards. (Yes, I'm a 5 year vet.)
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
.
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
Well said Daffid ..
100%
It has been a couple of days and yes if you don't see the potential of what this can easily turn into you are blind.
If we listened to people like you and Moiria everyone should just tuck their tale when something bad is done, walk away quietly and not say a word. While I doubt you are as niave as she is, negative feedback is as valuable as positive feedback if not moreso. Everything you say goes against the basic best of practices for consumer rights. The pair of you are like a corporate giants wet dream. Telling people to shut up doesn't change anything.
SOE is counting on people like you. People who say things like "it doesn't affect me so I don't care". Read the posts of people who are canceling, they are now saying this does affect them. What do you think they said about station exchange, the card game, etc. All these people sitting by letting SOE push the limits and little by little people hit that point as SOE never stops. Keep in mind with station cash it is now in SOEs best interest to make the game more reliant on cash sales than it is to make content designed to challenge you.
The question you should ask yourself is "Does this have the potential to affect me and is it believable that SOE could do something like that". I cannot see how the answer could be anything other than yes, but SOE is counting on people like you. People who just don't want to see the bad, because they are so entrenched in not wanting to see what is going on.
When SOE does finally get around to doing something that does affect you, please don't come here and post about it. If you are tired of hearing people complain about SOE, perhaps you should talk to SOE about the things they continually do that makes such an uproar. Strange concept I know, but maybe it will work better than telling people to be quiet because it doesn't affect you.
Well said Daffid ..
100%
Well said I agree. I especially like the "people like you" comment. I am people like him but I go even further. Something you seem to miss all together. I like the idea and so do many players no one is tucking tail. I even bought a fun house pet for 3 bucks and I'm enjoying it roaming around my house. Explain to me why I should not enjoy it? Hmm because I bought it? Kind of like I bought the game and computer I use to play it on. It does not matter that I "earned it ingame", like that is some medal of honor, instead I bought it with money I "earned". I been playing EQ2 since release I got nothing to prove to anyone. Come to one of my houses in EQ2 and see some of the 1000s of items I earned. I also play with many people who like this idea. I do not see them tucking tail or bailing out of EQ2 over this.
SOE is not counting on people like grandpagamer they are counting on players like me, who will enjoy this idea and buy a few things. So your well written response means nothing to "people like me" many of "us" people like the idea and see it in the future of mmos, in one form or another. I'm sure someone will post a well written response as to how I do not get it and am allowing the devil SOE to take over the world with their greed. I will save you the trouble, you are right! I don't get it. I simply enjoy a fun game called EQ2 for entertainment, so what do I know.
Just to let you know there are no ACHIEVMENT XP potions among the veteran rewards. (Yes, I'm a 5 year vet.)
So what.
That's 8000 from Sony, you know the big giant responsible for playstations, batteries, computers and what not? NOT Sony Online Entertainment.
Using the economy is a poor excuse, if that was the real issue they should have been forward about it and explained it in that light, you might not have seen such an uproar. But that's not how it happened, at all, the only explanation they gave is that they are trying to bring in more 'fun' and that they added the cash shop after our feedback.
That's called lying. Call it backhanded, underhanded, devious whatever it's still the same thing.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Moirae is not naive. She is an employee of SOE. Her job is to suppressive criticism of EQ 2. Check her post history. Take that into consideration as you read her replies regarding the introduction of CS.