Be warned, this is going to be a TL:DR post for those who arn't discussing this seriously.
I read the whole thread. This was very interesting. Allow me to give my neutral point of view.
I don't play SWG. I have never played SWG. I never intended back then, now, or in the future to play SWG, regardless of how great the game is or is not, because I am not interested in playing a Star Wars-based MMORPG, and therefore I fall out of the game's target audiance. However, I do not hold any hate, disgust, or prejudice against the game. I enjoy the Star Wars Intellectual Property, and I enjoy MMORPGs. I do not want to play a Star Wars game in an MMORPG fashion not because the game isn't meeting any standards that I would want, but because I am just simply not interested in playing a Star Wars game in an MMORPG fashion. I will not be purchasing SW:TOR either due to my disinterest, and even though I am disinterested, I hold no biase towards the game because I have not played the game, and thus it would be foolish for me to make any opinionated remarks on a game that I have never played and don't have any interest to play either. So please, consider my thoughts on the subject, as my thoughts are from a true neutral point of view about the topic at hand, and not because a previous biase was or is lingering to taint my opinion. I hold no like or dislike for SWG, and I hold no like or dislike for SoE. Now for the topic at hand...
From what I have read in this thread, and at other sources through educated research, SoE is definitally breaching a law. The TCG's game-enhancing Loot Cards do have a market value, and a very strong one at that, using the $300 worth of some Loot Cards at auction sites as an example. Futhermore, the TCG isn't a true TCG either. There are no physical, tangable cards in your ownership. There is no true ability to freely trade since your subscritpion's 'free' booster packs are not tradable. And there is no security in ownership of any of these since SoE, from their own EULA, state that the cards are their digital property, to be modified or deleted at their discretion. Furthermore, you can't even play the TCG unless you purchase a SWG subscription. If one wanted to trade their excess cards to a friend(who does not wish to pay money into the TCG but is interested) to allow them to play the TCG, the person would be unable to do this, because not only are some cards untradable, but the game REQUIRES a subscription to be played, therefore it would force his friend to subscribe if he ever wished to play the TCG, and not only would he have to subscribe, but he would need an internet connection to even view the cards and play the game. If we compare SWG's TCG to other games, you will see big, glaring differences. Pokemon and Magic: The Gathering are popular TCGs that we can start with. Yes, the cards have a monetary value, but the value is for the card itself to be used with the card game in question, or because the card is rare due to a misprint, a change in artwork on future cards, or even a balance change that banned the card or changed the card's abilities in newer versions of the game, but still allowed the older version of the card to be used in playing the game properly, officially and fairly. If one were to lose interest and stop playing M:TG or Pokemon, they can archive their cards away, sell their cards, or give them away, or even trash them if truly desired. However, they still own the card because they have the card. It is physical, it can be touched, and it is a product of the game that was purchased or obtained by the owner in some way, shape or form. Outside of losing the card through misplacement, a debacle of the owner's fault, or theft, the card is, and will always be, under their ownership and belong to the person who owns it, and this cannot be revoked, even if the person never purchases anymore cards of the game. Even if the game stops being produced, the cards remain to be traded, collected, or even played with for as long as the cards can physically exist in the ownership of those that bought the cards. This factor also makes card collecting an indirect investment, as it is this reason that many other card-type entities(Such as baseball cards) have high value and high collectability.
Now lets look at some other TCGs with more differences than our traditional TCGs, such as the World of Warcraft TCG and even Magic: The Gathering Online. Lets start with the WoW TCG first. The WoW TCG is also legitimate, even though there are game altering items, similar to the case in the SWG TCG case. However, the WoW TCG does things differently that legitimizes it. Firstly, you do not have to have a World of Warcraft subscription, or have ever subscribed in the first place, to be allowed to play the WoW TCG. You don't even have to purchase cards to be allowed to play, as you could simply be given cards from someone else, and now have enough cards to participate in the game that the cards are meant for. Booster Packs and the like are available for purchases for those who want cards for the TCG, and of course, these cards vary in rarity and thus it is a change the purchaser takes. However, whatever the cards are that he gets from the booster pack, the cards are, and always will be except for theft and mishaps as outlined before, under his ownership. The cards are physical, solid entities that are tangible, and thus are true property, so it mimics the properties of other card games like Pokemon and Magic: The Gathering perfectly... except for the loot cards. The loot cards in WoW's TCG link it in similarity to SWG's TCG, but there are a few BIG exceptions. First off, loot cards you get in WoW's TCG do NOT require you to be subscribing to the actual World of Warcraft MMORPG, nor do you actually have to ever have played the MMORPG game or be playing the MMORPG game to receive a loot card. Second, unlike SWG's TCG, with the WoW TCG's loot cards, you are receiving a physical, tangible entity(the loot card) if you get one in the packs, or if someone gives you it. You truly 'own' the loot card, because it is a physical entity, and is NOT a digital entity, such as SWG's TCG. If the WoW TCG ever stopped production, or World of Warcraft stopped maintaining servers, you still own the physical entity that is the loot card, and thus it can still be considered an investment in collectability and tradability, and the loot card can hold monetary value for desire of the physical entity in your posession by any avid collectors. The same is not the case for SWG's TCG, as there is no physical entity, trade is restricted to some of your cards, you cannot collect any cards of the SWG TCG unless you actually play the game, and when the SWG service ends, the TCG will most likely end with it since it is linked to the SWG subscription, and thus all your digital cards will vanish since you never had physical ownership of it to begin with. Thirdly, the loot cards in WoW's TCG do NOT give players of the MMORPG an advantage if they manage to get them. The items obtained by the TCG Loot Cards for use in the MMORPG are either cosmetic or offer the player to receive the in game loot something that has no effect on the core gameplay of World of Warcraft. The loot card's actual item received in World of Warcraft is moreso for 'bragging rights' than for 'a competitive advantage', which is, as far as I know, NOT the case with the SWG TCG's loot cards. Fourthly, the loot cards you receive in the WoW TCG function as actual cards as well, cards that can be used in the TCG and thus still retains a purpose to those who do not play the World of Warcraft MMORPG. The loot cards in SWG's TCG, as far as I know, do NOT have any purpose other than to give the person a SWG item. The loot card cannot by itself be used in the TCG, and thus for the people who play only the TCG and not SWG, would be worthless to the person purchasing the pack, and thus be disadvantageous to the player to actually receive one, because getting a loot card instead of other cards in the TCG means that the 10 card booster pack you bought for cards to use in the TCG was actually 9 cards(or even less) and a useless-to-you loot card, and thus you would feel a notion of being ripped off, receiving only 9 or less actual usable cards, and a useless-to-you loot card that can't be used to enhance the TCG experience because it has no use within the TCG itself. Yes, you may be able to trade and sell the loot card to other people and receive money and/or cards back from any transaction you took with that loot card, but once again, these are trades, actions and prices that arise only because a non-usable card in the TCG was inserted into the booster packs of cards intended to be used in the TCG. In essence, these cards force TCG players to interact with SWG players in non-TCG ways if they wish to make their purchased loot card, a product of monetary investment in a TCG, useful for not only the purchase of the card, but also to make up for receiving only 9 cards instead of 10 out of a booster pack(or worse). This is not the case in WoW's TCG, as the cards have an actual use in the TCG as a card, and thus never forces a person who does not play the MMORPG to have to interact with anyone of the MMORPG to put their card, their investment of money, to usage. Then we have the case of Magic: The Gathering Online. Like SWG's TCG, M:TGO uses digital cards that are purchased for money, and payment to use their services is required. Some cards are even unique to MTGO that are not available to MTG players. However, unlike SWG'S TCG, collecting these digital cards does have an ultimate purpose for the player, especially since MTGO and MTG are the exact same game(One is digital, one is physical, but both play exactly the same). If a player collects an entire series of cards(either by buying packs, trading individual cards for other cards, for currency, or as a gift, or winning them through skillful play), they are able to trade them in and actually receive in the mail every single card of the set they had collected. They have the ability to turn their digitally owned cards(Which are owned by the player, NOT the company when they are purchased, even in their digital form) into solid, physical entities, real cards, that can be used in the Magic: The Gathering TCG, and thus enjoy the same qualities of life as a regular purchase of Magic: The Gathering cards. M:TGO allows you to turn your digital property into physical property(If you collect the series of cards, that is). Through this method, there even exists cards for the offline, physical TCG that are only obtainable through the online, digital TCG, but they are not gamebreaking or gamechanging enough to warrant direct want of them from true players, though collectors will find them worth quite a bit. In essence, while MTGO has something available from it that benefits the offline game that can't be gotten elsewhere, these is no demand for these cards because they are not necessary in the least bit to be competitive, unlike the SWG TCG loot cards having loot that changed the competitiveness of the SWG game. And also, SWG's TCG cannot have its cards turned into physical entities under any condition, unlike MTGO, therefore once again ruining any 'investment' the player makes into the cards for worth after the game stops production and/or ceases to exist, as these cards do not and will never exist physically.
As you can see, compared to the other TCGs out there, SWG's TCG has so many faults with it, that even people playing it for the TCG itself are being scammed, as you are required to pay into a different game to play it, you are unable to trade your cards received from said subscription, you are unable to physically hold or touch your cards as they do not and will not ever exist in a physical form, and when the SWG game's service ends(face it, a game has to end its service someday), the cards are gone for good, never to be seen again. And even if they never end service, you must pay a subscription fee, the fee being equivalent to what you would pay for a AAA MMORPG, to even have access to your cards. Forfeit the subscription and you forfeit your right to play the TCG with cards you 'own'. Therefore, where is the incentive to play and purchase the SWG TCG? TCGs exist, survive and leave a legacy based on the incentive to have people purchase the cards in the first place. In Magic the Gathering's case, we can see multiple incentives to purchase the cards, such as for playing the TCG, for getting better cards for your deck for the TCG, for making multiple decks without borrowing from other decks, for outright collecting for prospective income from selling to another collector or player, or to just collect simply to be a collector of Magic: The Gathering cards. Some people even buy Magic: The Gathering cards simply for the beautiful artwork on the card. These incentives are what put a price on the cards themselves, the booster packs, and the future of the game. Useful cards to players will always net a high price because they will be low in circulation for collectors to collect, and/or low in circulation for players to play with. Thus collectors will post high price offers to collect and archive the card, and players will post high price offers to purchase the card in order to utilize it in their deck. The same can be said for Pokemon's TCG, Magic the Gathering's Online TCG, and even World of Warcraft's TCG. The same cannot be said for SWG's TCG. Why is SWG not like the other TCGs above? Because unlike them, the cards are not real(and will never be real) and hold no value for collectors to invest in. The game itself also cannot be played or shared to play with other people easily as it is purely digital AND linked to a subscription based online game which you MUST purchase the subscription of in order to play, and MUST be online to play. The game also has untradable cards that remain untradable if you received them from the 'free' booster packs, thus destroying the point of the 'trading' in the Trading Card Game acronym. The cards can be changed for balance reasons at the will of the publisher, reducing their collectability. And you can receive cards, loot cards, useless to the TCG as they do not have any positive effect on the TCG and cannot be used in a deck for the TCG. Their only use loot cards have for a TCG player, as far as I can see, is removing a potential card from the player's booster packs. And the worst part is, the actual playing cards from the TCG have no real currency value, as traders barter with cards or in-game currency to trade the playing cards and NOT real money. On the other hand, the loot cards, cards that are useless to the TCG player, not only do they hold a monetary value in the real world, but some hold a SIGNIFICANT value. And while you can say this is a great boon for the TCG player since they can sell the card and make actual profit from selling the card, there does exist a problem, and the problem does not lie with the selling of the loot card(Even WoW loot cards are sold every now and then). The problem lies in the target audiance of the loot card, the SWG players. These loot cards of the SWG TCG benefit ONLY the SWG player, and hold no benefit and no reason to collect for the TCG player. These loot cards apparently have siginificant, game changing advantages over what is obtained in the actual game. History in gaming shows that players want to remain competitive, and will do what it takes to remain there. PC game players that don't play MMORPGS, but other games like Counter Strike, Crysis, Call of Duty, Starcraft, and other competitive games will buy expensive computers, heavy duty high quality ISP service, expensive peripherals, comfortable clothing, high quality chairs, desks, and all other things all to achieve the perfect ambiance and perfect setting to play their game at the top competitive level and to remove hinderances getting in their way. And even if players are not top quality tournament level, they will still want to play a game well, and will typically purchase a computer that can run it, broadband internet, and a decent monitor, mouse and keyboard, and mabye other things. And even if they don't purchase all these things, the players can still play just fine on a crappy computer with crappy equipment, but on a technical scale, they are at no true disadvantage over other players because they have the same access to the same game, and player skill and tactics will still be in the majority of how things are settled. Those who are competitive enough, however, will purchase and upgrade to play and perform better in order to stay at the top of the competition. The same holds true in MMORPGs. Players will do boring, time consuming and repetitive leveling processes, quests, raids, crafting, and other things in order to be competitive and at the top. In free to play games, like MapleStory(Most successful Free to play MMORPG available), players purchase things that assist them in leveling faster, hitting harder, or moving around the globe of the game quicker, or just to not have to worry about using potions and whatnot, because it makes the player able to play at a higher performance rating than they were able to before, and thus people will upgrade as their budget allows to become better, or in games with no shops like World of Warcraft, will invest as much time as possible to get the best equipment in the game to be competitive. These loot cards offer game changing advantages that are not easily available to players that don't buy TCG cards. While that would be dandy and fine, the major problems are that players are already paying a AAA fee to play SWG, and there doesn't exist in-game non-TCG equivalents to what is available. So SWG players will buy into the TCG, hoping to receive a loot card, or they'll pay an extreme amount of real-life currency to purchase said loot card. This, however, indirectly preys on a major psychological problem: Gambling Addiction. A SWG player who wants to remain competitive, but has no desire to play the TCG, now has to put money into the TCG to get the advantages, and they have two ways to do this. They can either buy the loot card they want from another player directly for a high price, or purchase a booster pack for a chance to get the competitve loot cards. And this is the first time I've used the word 'Chance' in this thread in a gambling fashion too. While the World of Warcraft TCG's loot cards are also in booster packs and people take chances to get them, they are not the same as SWG's TCG. WoW's TCG's cards are still physical entities which you own and keep even if you don't get the loot card you want, and there is no desire to get the loot card other than bragging rights that give you no advantage, so competitive players who don't have the budget won't risk their money for an item that won't help them defeat the next biggest raid boss or defeat the PvPer with the best gear in the game. Not the same apparently in SWG's case, because there is no other alternative for getting the best, competitive gear in the game. And it is these competitive, low budget players that fall for SWG's TCG ploy. By offering an inexpensive, but low chance, method to instantly receive some of the best gear, unique stuff in the game that cannot be gotten anywhere else and offers a true competitive advantage, players will risk their luck to get the loot card for a cheap price instead of paying a larger sum to receive the exact card they want. And this is how someone's gambling addiction starts and continues. They will continually purchase booster packs until they get what they want or they run out of money. It's not their fault, it's a neurological problem from deceptive interfaces, deceptive numbers, and the gambler's fallacy. Worst of all, the regular cards received will be of zero use to the SWG player looking specifically for the competittve loot cards, and arn't even a physical entity to collect, give away, or even sell for the card's own value. This turns the Booster Packs into a lottery for SWG players, and since it's time paced(like state lotteries and even casinos), an addicted gambler will continue to purchase the packs in hopes of winning the lottery at stake with no gain in return, in this case hoping to win the gamechanging competitive loot cards. And with the deceptive numbers and interface used for the loot card's actual appearance, this can quickly turn an addicted gambler bankrupt. There is no limit to how many packs can be purchased, no posted odds of receiving a loot card in the booster packs, and nobody there to stop the gambler from continually purchasing booster packs. The gambler, in a state of mind where he thinks that he will win it in the next one, continues to buy and buy until bankrupt or receives the loot card in question. The odds of him receiving the card before spending more money than it's worth is very, very low, as SoE has posted no actual odds of how often the loot cards appear in booster packs. This means that SoE can fix the odds in their favor any way they like without telling the purchasers(Akin to how the House in a Casino can fix the odds to their favor over the player even more than normal, what is called rigging). With no posted odds, no purpose of these loot cards being in the TCG other than to draw in income from those using the TCG Booster Packs like a lottery(Not taking away from the income from the actual TCG players, but drawing in SWG players for their own income to be used not on the TCG, but only the loot card lottery), and no limits beyond the credit card limit, SoE is essentially running a gambling business, offering players a chance to receive a gamebreaking competitive advantage. This chance is offered only in exchange for money AFTER a $15 monthly fee is paid, which means that not only are they having to pay into the lottery to get a gamechanging competitive item, but they are also forced to pay a subscription to even be allowed to do this in the first place. If it was free to play, it wouldn't be a problem. SWG is not free to play, and therefore this changes the rules completely, and definitally qualifies this as a gambling ring. I'd go as far as saying it is extortion as well, for BOTH the TCG and SWG players, since one can't play at all and one cannot play competitively without utilizing the other. And like I said, the method being used by SOE's store for purchasing booster packs to receive a chance to get a loot card with no published odds and no limit is clearly in place to take advantage of gamblers. It does take advantage of gambling addiction(In a game where an addicted gambler may have turned to get away from gambling in the first place), and from the stories I've read, has taken advantage. This is not only unethical, but unlawful as well. The lottery-like gambling system they have with the loot cards was either crafted this way to entice gambling by accident, or was crafted to be this way from the beginning. And even if both ways were possibly true, they should have been stopped by the company's lawyers before the content was pushed live. As a corporation dealing with online video gaming, and a large corporation at that, their lawyers should have been consulted or should have taken action to speak up against what exactly SoE is doing, and have drafted up the proper documents and clauses. Because of all the possibilities of being sued, their lawyers should have a hand somewhere in their production line in order to keep everything politically correct, unbiased, unhateful, equal opportunity, and that all content abides to the law without going overboard. From what I have read, SoE does not have documents and literature that would be considered valid for the operation that they are running. Even if they didn't intend the lottery to turn into gambling and consider it more of a promotion, they don't even have the proper documentation available to lay out the terms of it being a promotion. Therefore, this would be either a fault of the lawyers being unknowledgable about the law, a fault of the lawyers being unknowledgable about what they are doing does in fact require proper literature and information, a fault of the SoE employees that designed, drafted, and marketed the TCG and the Loot Cards, or a combination of these faults. Or even worse, they took no precaution with their service and launched it without bothering to look into the laws or what could possibly go wrong or draw court action, which is a bad move for any large corporation, especially when dealing with money on a global scale(regardless of how much money is in question).
In conclusion, the SWG TCG is definitally being operated as an illegal gambling operation in my eyes, is definitally breaking the law, and definitally should be brought to justice and pay for damages to those who have suffered losses from their gambling addiction taking over, especially in a video game that isn't supposed to have real money gambling for competitive items in the first place since this sort of gambling is illegal in a pay to play game. If any of my information would be helpful to those seeking to bring this to the attention of the gambling authorities of the US and Canada, feel free to use this. I don't want to have typed this for nothing, and will also look into the matters myself. The best way to bring notification to a problem is if multiple sources bring it up to the governments. SOE should not go unregulated like this, and I praise those who are also actively seeking to bring regulation and justice to SOE, as this is definitally a broken law, and anyone who breaks a law, especially with gambling and minors in play, should pay the fine.
I wish you all luck on your endeavors, Darxio
Ok so I got tired of reading after the last point. I highlighted.
1st off let me say that I do think the game in itself can be a ripoff. Do I feel SOE is doing anything illegal no they are not.
Why do I feel it can be a rip off? For this fact alone. Person A can spen $100 and buy a box of cards and get 0 loot cards... while person B buys 1 pack for $2.99 and gets 2 loot cards in the same pack. I have experienced both scenerios 1st hand.
Now on to the points I highlighted. The main point you seemed to come back to was the fact that you need a subscription to SWG to play the TCG. This is absolutely not true. I know this 1st hand as well. I play on 2 accounts that have no active subscription to SWG. You may need a station account to play but you can sign up for that at no charge. SO that point goes out the window.
Next you mentioned several times that the loot cards in SWG give a competitive advantage unlike other TCG games. The fact of the matter is that there are only 3-4 cards that give any sort of competitve advantage those being buff cards like the Gorax ear. The problem with your arguement here is these cards are not the highly sought out cards, they do not sell for that much as a matter of fact. The cards that people lust after and spend paychecks on are all cosmetic cards only. Please tell me how a diner or a speeder is going to give you a competitive advantage in the game? It simply gives a status symbol that others will envy.
Lastly you mention several time about the fact the the booster packs are non trade. Ok yes they are no trade however they are free to the player a gift for their subscription to SWG. Only players with active subscriptions to SWG to get the free booster packs again it is a gift from SOE for your loyalty of playing the game.
This does not in anyway shape or form prevent others from playing the game. They will have to purchase their packs, that is all. Or if they have friends playing who have purchased packs and have multiples of cards they can give them to the player. Again they are not required to have any subscriptions to play. They can buy 1 pack and it could have a highly valued loot card in it. If they do not play SWG then they can trade that loot card for , additional packs,boxes ,cards whatever to better their playing deck for the TCG.
Bottom line is SOE is doing nothing wrong here. The game is there for all to play and they reward those who also play their MMO with free packs monthly.
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
Be warned, this is going to be a TL:DR post for those who arn't discussing this seriously.
I read the whole thread. This was very interesting. Allow me to give my neutral point of view.
I don't play SWG. I have never played SWG. I never intended back then, now, or in the future to play SWG, regardless of how great the game is or is not, because I am not interested in playing a Star Wars-based MMORPG, and therefore I fall out of the game's target audiance. However, I do not hold any hate, disgust, or prejudice against the game. I enjoy the Star Wars Intellectual Property, and I enjoy MMORPGs. I do not want to play a Star Wars game in an MMORPG fashion not because the game isn't meeting any standards that I would want, but because I am just simply not interested in playing a Star Wars game in an MMORPG fashion. I will not be purchasing SW:TOR either due to my disinterest, and even though I am disinterested, I hold no biase towards the game because I have not played the game, and thus it would be foolish for me to make any opinionated remarks on a game that I have never played and don't have any interest to play either. So please, consider my thoughts on the subject, as my thoughts are from a true neutral point of view about the topic at hand, and not because a previous biase was or is lingering to taint my opinion. I hold no like or dislike for SWG, and I hold no like or dislike for SoE. Now for the topic at hand...
From what I have read in this thread, and at other sources through educated research, SoE is definitally breaching a law. The TCG's game-enhancing Loot Cards do have a market value, and a very strong one at that, using the $300 worth of some Loot Cards at auction sites as an example. Futhermore, the TCG isn't a true TCG either. There are no physical, tangable cards in your ownership. There is no true ability to freely trade since your subscritpion's 'free' booster packs are not tradable. And there is no security in ownership of any of these since SoE, from their own EULA, state that the cards are their digital property, to be modified or deleted at their discretion. Furthermore, you can't even play the TCG unless you purchase a SWG subscription. If one wanted to trade their excess cards to a friend(who does not wish to pay money into the TCG but is interested) to allow them to play the TCG, the person would be unable to do this, because not only are some cards untradable, but the game REQUIRES a subscription to be played, therefore it would force his friend to subscribe if he ever wished to play the TCG, and not only would he have to subscribe, but he would need an internet connection to even view the cards and play the game. If we compare SWG's TCG to other games, you will see big, glaring differences. Pokemon and Magic: The Gathering are popular TCGs that we can start with. Yes, the cards have a monetary value, but the value is for the card itself to be used with the card game in question, or because the card is rare due to a misprint, a change in artwork on future cards, or even a balance change that banned the card or changed the card's abilities in newer versions of the game, but still allowed the older version of the card to be used in playing the game properly, officially and fairly. If one were to lose interest and stop playing M:TG or Pokemon, they can archive their cards away, sell their cards, or give them away, or even trash them if truly desired. However, they still own the card because they have the card. It is physical, it can be touched, and it is a product of the game that was purchased or obtained by the owner in some way, shape or form. Outside of losing the card through misplacement, a debacle of the owner's fault, or theft, the card is, and will always be, under their ownership and belong to the person who owns it, and this cannot be revoked, even if the person never purchases anymore cards of the game. Even if the game stops being produced, the cards remain to be traded, collected, or even played with for as long as the cards can physically exist in the ownership of those that bought the cards. This factor also makes card collecting an indirect investment, as it is this reason that many other card-type entities(Such as baseball cards) have high value and high collectability.
Now lets look at some other TCGs with more differences than our traditional TCGs, such as the World of Warcraft TCG and even Magic: The Gathering Online. Lets start with the WoW TCG first. The WoW TCG is also legitimate, even though there are game altering items, similar to the case in the SWG TCG case. However, the WoW TCG does things differently that legitimizes it. Firstly, you do not have to have a World of Warcraft subscription, or have ever subscribed in the first place, to be allowed to play the WoW TCG. You don't even have to purchase cards to be allowed to play, as you could simply be given cards from someone else, and now have enough cards to participate in the game that the cards are meant for. Booster Packs and the like are available for purchases for those who want cards for the TCG, and of course, these cards vary in rarity and thus it is a change the purchaser takes. However, whatever the cards are that he gets from the booster pack, the cards are, and always will be except for theft and mishaps as outlined before, under his ownership. The cards are physical, solid entities that are tangible, and thus are true property, so it mimics the properties of other card games like Pokemon and Magic: The Gathering perfectly... except for the loot cards. The loot cards in WoW's TCG link it in similarity to SWG's TCG, but there are a few BIG exceptions. First off, loot cards you get in WoW's TCG do NOT require you to be subscribing to the actual World of Warcraft MMORPG, nor do you actually have to ever have played the MMORPG game or be playing the MMORPG game to receive a loot card. Second, unlike SWG's TCG, with the WoW TCG's loot cards, you are receiving a physical, tangible entity(the loot card) if you get one in the packs, or if someone gives you it. You truly 'own' the loot card, because it is a physical entity, and is NOT a digital entity, such as SWG's TCG. If the WoW TCG ever stopped production, or World of Warcraft stopped maintaining servers, you still own the physical entity that is the loot card, and thus it can still be considered an investment in collectability and tradability, and the loot card can hold monetary value for desire of the physical entity in your posession by any avid collectors. The same is not the case for SWG's TCG, as there is no physical entity, trade is restricted to some of your cards, you cannot collect any cards of the SWG TCG unless you actually play the game, and when the SWG service ends, the TCG will most likely end with it since it is linked to the SWG subscription, and thus all your digital cards will vanish since you never had physical ownership of it to begin with. Thirdly, the loot cards in WoW's TCG do NOT give players of the MMORPG an advantage if they manage to get them. The items obtained by the TCG Loot Cards for use in the MMORPG are either cosmetic or offer the player to receive the in game loot something that has no effect on the core gameplay of World of Warcraft. The loot card's actual item received in World of Warcraft is moreso for 'bragging rights' than for 'a competitive advantage', which is, as far as I know, NOT the case with the SWG TCG's loot cards. Fourthly, the loot cards you receive in the WoW TCG function as actual cards as well, cards that can be used in the TCG and thus still retains a purpose to those who do not play the World of Warcraft MMORPG. The loot cards in SWG's TCG, as far as I know, do NOT have any purpose other than to give the person a SWG item. The loot card cannot by itself be used in the TCG, and thus for the people who play only the TCG and not SWG, would be worthless to the person purchasing the pack, and thus be disadvantageous to the player to actually receive one, because getting a loot card instead of other cards in the TCG means that the 10 card booster pack you bought for cards to use in the TCG was actually 9 cards(or even less) and a useless-to-you loot card, and thus you would feel a notion of being ripped off, receiving only 9 or less actual usable cards, and a useless-to-you loot card that can't be used to enhance the TCG experience because it has no use within the TCG itself. Yes, you may be able to trade and sell the loot card to other people and receive money and/or cards back from any transaction you took with that loot card, but once again, these are trades, actions and prices that arise only because a non-usable card in the TCG was inserted into the booster packs of cards intended to be used in the TCG. In essence, these cards force TCG players to interact with SWG players in non-TCG ways if they wish to make their purchased loot card, a product of monetary investment in a TCG, useful for not only the purchase of the card, but also to make up for receiving only 9 cards instead of 10 out of a booster pack(or worse). This is not the case in WoW's TCG, as the cards have an actual use in the TCG as a card, and thus never forces a person who does not play the MMORPG to have to interact with anyone of the MMORPG to put their card, their investment of money, to usage. Then we have the case of Magic: The Gathering Online. Like SWG's TCG, M:TGO uses digital cards that are purchased for money, and payment to use their services is required. Some cards are even unique to MTGO that are not available to MTG players. However, unlike SWG'S TCG, collecting these digital cards does have an ultimate purpose for the player, especially since MTGO and MTG are the exact same game(One is digital, one is physical, but both play exactly the same). If a player collects an entire series of cards(either by buying packs, trading individual cards for other cards, for currency, or as a gift, or winning them through skillful play), they are able to trade them in and actually receive in the mail every single card of the set they had collected. They have the ability to turn their digitally owned cards(Which are owned by the player, NOT the company when they are purchased, even in their digital form) into solid, physical entities, real cards, that can be used in the Magic: The Gathering TCG, and thus enjoy the same qualities of life as a regular purchase of Magic: The Gathering cards. M:TGO allows you to turn your digital property into physical property(If you collect the series of cards, that is). Through this method, there even exists cards for the offline, physical TCG that are only obtainable through the online, digital TCG, but they are not gamebreaking or gamechanging enough to warrant direct want of them from true players, though collectors will find them worth quite a bit. In essence, while MTGO has something available from it that benefits the offline game that can't be gotten elsewhere, these is no demand for these cards because they are not necessary in the least bit to be competitive, unlike the SWG TCG loot cards having loot that changed the competitiveness of the SWG game. And also, SWG's TCG cannot have its cards turned into physical entities under any condition, unlike MTGO, therefore once again ruining any 'investment' the player makes into the cards for worth after the game stops production and/or ceases to exist, as these cards do not and will never exist physically.
As you can see, compared to the other TCGs out there, SWG's TCG has so many faults with it, that even people playing it for the TCG itself are being scammed, as you are required to pay into a different game to play it, you are unable to trade your cards received from said subscription, you are unable to physically hold or touch your cards as they do not and will not ever exist in a physical form, and when the SWG game's service ends(face it, a game has to end its service someday), the cards are gone for good, never to be seen again. And even if they never end service, you must pay a subscription fee, the fee being equivalent to what you would pay for a AAA MMORPG, to even have access to your cards. Forfeit the subscription and you forfeit your right to play the TCG with cards you 'own'. Therefore, where is the incentive to play and purchase the SWG TCG? TCGs exist, survive and leave a legacy based on the incentive to have people purchase the cards in the first place. In Magic the Gathering's case, we can see multiple incentives to purchase the cards, such as for playing the TCG, for getting better cards for your deck for the TCG, for making multiple decks without borrowing from other decks, for outright collecting for prospective income from selling to another collector or player, or to just collect simply to be a collector of Magic: The Gathering cards. Some people even buy Magic: The Gathering cards simply for the beautiful artwork on the card. These incentives are what put a price on the cards themselves, the booster packs, and the future of the game. Useful cards to players will always net a high price because they will be low in circulation for collectors to collect, and/or low in circulation for players to play with. Thus collectors will post high price offers to collect and archive the card, and players will post high price offers to purchase the card in order to utilize it in their deck. The same can be said for Pokemon's TCG, Magic the Gathering's Online TCG, and even World of Warcraft's TCG. The same cannot be said for SWG's TCG. Why is SWG not like the other TCGs above? Because unlike them, the cards are not real(and will never be real) and hold no value for collectors to invest in. The game itself also cannot be played or shared to play with other people easily as it is purely digital AND linked to a subscription based online game which you MUST purchase the subscription of in order to play, and MUST be online to play. The game also has untradable cards that remain untradable if you received them from the 'free' booster packs, thus destroying the point of the 'trading' in the Trading Card Game acronym. The cards can be changed for balance reasons at the will of the publisher, reducing their collectability. And you can receive cards, loot cards, useless to the TCG as they do not have any positive effect on the TCG and cannot be used in a deck for the TCG. Their only use loot cards have for a TCG player, as far as I can see, is removing a potential card from the player's booster packs. And the worst part is, the actual playing cards from the TCG have no real currency value, as traders barter with cards or in-game currency to trade the playing cards and NOT real money. On the other hand, the loot cards, cards that are useless to the TCG player, not only do they hold a monetary value in the real world, but some hold a SIGNIFICANT value. And while you can say this is a great boon for the TCG player since they can sell the card and make actual profit from selling the card, there does exist a problem, and the problem does not lie with the selling of the loot card(Even WoW loot cards are sold every now and then). The problem lies in the target audiance of the loot card, the SWG players. These loot cards of the SWG TCG benefit ONLY the SWG player, and hold no benefit and no reason to collect for the TCG player. These loot cards apparently have siginificant, game changing advantages over what is obtained in the actual game. History in gaming shows that players want to remain competitive, and will do what it takes to remain there. PC game players that don't play MMORPGS, but other games like Counter Strike, Crysis, Call of Duty, Starcraft, and other competitive games will buy expensive computers, heavy duty high quality ISP service, expensive peripherals, comfortable clothing, high quality chairs, desks, and all other things all to achieve the perfect ambiance and perfect setting to play their game at the top competitive level and to remove hinderances getting in their way. And even if players are not top quality tournament level, they will still want to play a game well, and will typically purchase a computer that can run it, broadband internet, and a decent monitor, mouse and keyboard, and mabye other things. And even if they don't purchase all these things, the players can still play just fine on a crappy computer with crappy equipment, but on a technical scale, they are at no true disadvantage over other players because they have the same access to the same game, and player skill and tactics will still be in the majority of how things are settled. Those who are competitive enough, however, will purchase and upgrade to play and perform better in order to stay at the top of the competition. The same holds true in MMORPGs. Players will do boring, time consuming and repetitive leveling processes, quests, raids, crafting, and other things in order to be competitive and at the top. In free to play games, like MapleStory(Most successful Free to play MMORPG available), players purchase things that assist them in leveling faster, hitting harder, or moving around the globe of the game quicker, or just to not have to worry about using potions and whatnot, because it makes the player able to play at a higher performance rating than they were able to before, and thus people will upgrade as their budget allows to become better, or in games with no shops like World of Warcraft, will invest as much time as possible to get the best equipment in the game to be competitive. These loot cards offer game changing advantages that are not easily available to players that don't buy TCG cards. While that would be dandy and fine, the major problems are that players are already paying a AAA fee to play SWG, and there doesn't exist in-game non-TCG equivalents to what is available. So SWG players will buy into the TCG, hoping to receive a loot card, or they'll pay an extreme amount of real-life currency to purchase said loot card. This, however, indirectly preys on a major psychological problem: Gambling Addiction. A SWG player who wants to remain competitive, but has no desire to play the TCG, now has to put money into the TCG to get the advantages, and they have two ways to do this. They can either buy the loot card they want from another player directly for a high price, or purchase a booster pack for a chance to get the competitve loot cards. And this is the first time I've used the word 'Chance' in this thread in a gambling fashion too. While the World of Warcraft TCG's loot cards are also in booster packs and people take chances to get them, they are not the same as SWG's TCG. WoW's TCG's cards are still physical entities which you own and keep even if you don't get the loot card you want, and there is no desire to get the loot card other than bragging rights that give you no advantage, so competitive players who don't have the budget won't risk their money for an item that won't help them defeat the next biggest raid boss or defeat the PvPer with the best gear in the game. Not the same apparently in SWG's case, because there is no other alternative for getting the best, competitive gear in the game. And it is these competitive, low budget players that fall for SWG's TCG ploy. By offering an inexpensive, but low chance, method to instantly receive some of the best gear, unique stuff in the game that cannot be gotten anywhere else and offers a true competitive advantage, players will risk their luck to get the loot card for a cheap price instead of paying a larger sum to receive the exact card they want. And this is how someone's gambling addiction starts and continues. They will continually purchase booster packs until they get what they want or they run out of money. It's not their fault, it's a neurological problem from deceptive interfaces, deceptive numbers, and the gambler's fallacy. Worst of all, the regular cards received will be of zero use to the SWG player looking specifically for the competittve loot cards, and arn't even a physical entity to collect, give away, or even sell for the card's own value. This turns the Booster Packs into a lottery for SWG players, and since it's time paced(like state lotteries and even casinos), an addicted gambler will continue to purchase the packs in hopes of winning the lottery at stake with no gain in return, in this case hoping to win the gamechanging competitive loot cards. And with the deceptive numbers and interface used for the loot card's actual appearance, this can quickly turn an addicted gambler bankrupt. There is no limit to how many packs can be purchased, no posted odds of receiving a loot card in the booster packs, and nobody there to stop the gambler from continually purchasing booster packs. The gambler, in a state of mind where he thinks that he will win it in the next one, continues to buy and buy until bankrupt or receives the loot card in question. The odds of him receiving the card before spending more money than it's worth is very, very low, as SoE has posted no actual odds of how often the loot cards appear in booster packs. This means that SoE can fix the odds in their favor any way they like without telling the purchasers(Akin to how the House in a Casino can fix the odds to their favor over the player even more than normal, what is called rigging). With no posted odds, no purpose of these loot cards being in the TCG other than to draw in income from those using the TCG Booster Packs like a lottery(Not taking away from the income from the actual TCG players, but drawing in SWG players for their own income to be used not on the TCG, but only the loot card lottery), and no limits beyond the credit card limit, SoE is essentially running a gambling business, offering players a chance to receive a gamebreaking competitive advantage. This chance is offered only in exchange for money AFTER a $15 monthly fee is paid, which means that not only are they having to pay into the lottery to get a gamechanging competitive item, but they are also forced to pay a subscription to even be allowed to do this in the first place. If it was free to play, it wouldn't be a problem. SWG is not free to play, and therefore this changes the rules completely, and definitally qualifies this as a gambling ring. I'd go as far as saying it is extortion as well, for BOTH the TCG and SWG players, since one can't play at all and one cannot play competitively without utilizing the other. And like I said, the method being used by SOE's store for purchasing booster packs to receive a chance to get a loot card with no published odds and no limit is clearly in place to take advantage of gamblers. It does take advantage of gambling addiction(In a game where an addicted gambler may have turned to get away from gambling in the first place), and from the stories I've read, has taken advantage. This is not only unethical, but unlawful as well. The lottery-like gambling system they have with the loot cards was either crafted this way to entice gambling by accident, or was crafted to be this way from the beginning. And even if both ways were possibly true, they should have been stopped by the company's lawyers before the content was pushed live. As a corporation dealing with online video gaming, and a large corporation at that, their lawyers should have been consulted or should have taken action to speak up against what exactly SoE is doing, and have drafted up the proper documents and clauses. Because of all the possibilities of being sued, their lawyers should have a hand somewhere in their production line in order to keep everything politically correct, unbiased, unhateful, equal opportunity, and that all content abides to the law without going overboard. From what I have read, SoE does not have documents and literature that would be considered valid for the operation that they are running. Even if they didn't intend the lottery to turn into gambling and consider it more of a promotion, they don't even have the proper documentation available to lay out the terms of it being a promotion. Therefore, this would be either a fault of the lawyers being unknowledgable about the law, a fault of the lawyers being unknowledgable about what they are doing does in fact require proper literature and information, a fault of the SoE employees that designed, drafted, and marketed the TCG and the Loot Cards, or a combination of these faults. Or even worse, they took no precaution with their service and launched it without bothering to look into the laws or what could possibly go wrong or draw court action, which is a bad move for any large corporation, especially when dealing with money on a global scale(regardless of how much money is in question).
In conclusion, the SWG TCG is definitally being operated as an illegal gambling operation in my eyes, is definitally breaking the law, and definitally should be brought to justice and pay for damages to those who have suffered losses from their gambling addiction taking over, especially in a video game that isn't supposed to have real money gambling for competitive items in the first place since this sort of gambling is illegal in a pay to play game. If any of my information would be helpful to those seeking to bring this to the attention of the gambling authorities of the US and Canada, feel free to use this. I don't want to have typed this for nothing, and will also look into the matters myself. The best way to bring notification to a problem is if multiple sources bring it up to the governments. SOE should not go unregulated like this, and I praise those who are also actively seeking to bring regulation and justice to SOE, as this is definitally a broken law, and anyone who breaks a law, especially with gambling and minors in play, should pay the fine.
I wish you all luck on your endeavors, Darxio
Ok so I got tired of reading after the last point. I highlighted.
1st off let me say that I do think the game in itself can be a ripoff. Do I feel SOE is doing anything illegal no they are not.
Why do I feel it can be a rip off? For this fact alone. Person A can spen $100 and buy a box of cards and get 0 loot cards... while person B buys 1 pack for $2.99 and gets 2 loot cards in the same pack. I have experienced both scenerios 1st hand.
Now on to the points I highlighted. The main point you seemed to come back to was the fact that you need a subscription to SWG to play the TCG. This is absolutely not true. I know this 1st hand as well. I play on 2 accounts that have no active subscription to SWG. You may need a station account to play but you can sign up for that at no charge. SO that point goes out the window.
Next you mentioned several times that the loot cards in SWG give a competitive advantage unlike other TCG games. The fact of the matter is that there are only 3-4 cards that give any sort of competitve advantage those being buff cards like the Gorax ear. The problem with your arguement here is these cards are not the highly sought out cards, they do not sell for that much as a matter of fact. The cards that people lust after and spend paychecks on are all cosmetic cards only. Please tell me how a diner or a speeder is going to give you a competitive advantage in the game? It simply gives a status symbol that others will envy.
Lastly you mention several time about the fact the the booster packs are non trade. Ok yes they are no trade however they are free to the player a gift for their subscription to SWG. Only players with active subscriptions to SWG to get the free booster packs again it is a gift from SOE for your loyalty of playing the game.
This does not in anyway shape or form prevent others from playing the game. They will have to purchase their packs, that is all. Or if they have friends playing who have purchased packs and have multiples of cards they can give them to the player. Again they are not required to have any subscriptions to play. They can buy 1 pack and it could have a highly valued loot card in it. If they do not play SWG then they can trade that loot card for , additional packs,boxes ,cards whatever to better their playing deck for the TCG.
Bottom line is SOE is doing nothing wrong here. The game is there for all to play and they reward those who also play their MMO with free packs monthly.
End of story.
You need to pay a subscription fee to SWG or pay for a Station pass to access your cards. That's the point. You need to pay SOE more money to continue to access them. This is all very clearly spelled out on the TCG website. Here are some quotes:
"This first-ever online-only Star Wars® trading card game provides Star Wars Galaxies subscribers with an entirely new gameplay experience by combining the challenge of a trading card game with the adventures and community of the massively multiplayer game!
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game is an online-only trading card game, based on the massively multiplayer online role-playing game Star Wars Galaxies. Playable from within the MMO, Champions of the Force, the first set for Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game, features over 250 digital cards and is available in both 58-card digital starter decks and 15-card digital booster packs.
Station Access subscribers with accounts in good standing are also able to access and play the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game.
Additional recurring subscription fees apply to Star Wars Galaxies and Station Access accounts."
I copied and pasted the relevant statements from the website, and left out some of the fine print to avoid a wall of text.
You need to pay to access the cards you have already purchased. No payment, no access.
The loot cards that provide a competitive advantage include the buff cards you mention and unique vehicles with speed advantages over all other vehicles in the game. Here's the information on the vehicle advantage:
"Card Number: 1SWG17
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
The sith speeder is listed in another wiki as the second fastest vehicle in the game, and is highly maneuverable. They are both only available via the loot cards.
Do you have to pay additional fees to continue to access the cards you have purchased? Yes.
Do the loot cards give SWG players a competitive advantage in the MMO? Yes. It's really that clear.
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
The difference is I would not have to go back to Best Buy and buy something else just to watch the movie every month whereas to use the booster cards I HAVE to pay SOE.
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
The difference is I would not have to go back to Best Buy and buy something else just to watch the movie every month whereas to use the booster cards I HAVE to pay SOE.
That's just it. You'd have to pay admission to the Best Buy, get a movie as part of the admission fee, and then have to pay the admission fee everytime you wanted to watch it because you wouldn't actually own the movie and it would only be playable at Best Buy. This isn't a strange world-view at all. It is in fact exactly how the TCG is set up. Also, as I've mentioned, I like TCG's, I just don't happen to like this one specifically because of the cash-grabbing gimmicks and recurring fees that some people try to keep hidden. One of the things consumers need to be wary of is "free" phone plans etc. If you read the fine print in many of these, they're not free at all. There are tons of hidden fees. SWG's TCG is just like that. There is extremely small font fine print that explains these hidden fees, which I happened to take the time to read. They still don't admit that people are gambling for loot items (and they are), and I still see that as a huge oversight that may get them into a really bad spot, but they do at least admit that there are recurring fees associated with playing the TCG.
You have to pay SOE something to get the cards. You have to pay them more to use them. There's really no way around this within the bounds of honesty.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
So giving away a vehicle instead of allowing engineers to craft them doesn't hurt engineers? Giving away the first new player structures since the bunker instead of allowing architects to craft them doesn't hurt artchitects? Giving away a brand new ship chassis instead of allowing shipwrights to craft them doesn't hurt shipwrights?
Some people are still so blind to what SOE does to its players.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
P.S. LOL! The stats highlighting all the advantages of the sith speeder were formerly posted on SOE's site. Now the link takes you to a blank page. What a strange coincidence lol, too funny. Sorry I can't get you those Ummax, someone with admin privileges at SOE has decided to remove them it seems. Here's the useless link:
"09:30, 6 January 2009 Skinmeister (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sith Speederbike" (content was: 'A Sith-designed, crescent-shaped speeder bike like the one flown by Darth Maul. The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks o...' (and the only contributor was '24.70.42.207')) "
Since someone is on a campaign to remove all accurate information about the vehicle, I'll have to tell you that the speed rankings formerly posted were as follows:
1. podracer (loot card)
2. sith speeder (loot card)
3. barc speeder.
If I can find anything that someone hasn't been quick enough to delete lol, I'll post it, but I bet they've cleaned up after themselves rather thoroughly. If that doesn't suggest to you that something wrong is happening, I'm really not sure what will.
Lol yup, they've cleaned house. The information I read just a couple of days ago has been wiped out, all of it.
The last time there was a wipe-out campaign like this was when the stratics chats promising features in Trials of Obiwan were deleted after the NGE went live. The SWG site and other sites like War-cry had stratics chat logs before the ToOW ads, and after the ToOw ads, with a nice big blank spot where players were promised new creatures in ToOW and profession revamps. Of course, as we all know, creature handlers were then deleted, as were all the other professions promised revamps. Despite this deletion campaign, SOE still ended up giving players refunds in the face of fraud allegations. Well tbh, they didn't get rid of it before many players, myself included, made copies of it. It's my understanding that this information was then provided to the Federal Trade Commission and the State Attorney General -_^.
To be honest, it doesn't seem like SOE has learned all that much since then.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
The one caviat is that the loot cards have zero function in the TCG.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up .
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up .
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
Yeah I"m not an avid TCG fan. I never saw much wrong with the one in eq2 heck I never even opened the thing until like a couple weeks ago just to compare it to the swg thing. Suffice it to say I was not shocked to see an identical version but with orcs and fairies instead of sith's and jedi in eq2. I simply disagree with the impact that people put on the items people get from the TGC's on the gaming experience for the sole reason that I have played EQ2 with an identical TCG in place and haven't gotten any loot cards at all due to the fact that I Only just opened it just at christmas time. So I have pretty much solid evidence as far as I'm concerned that my gaming experience has not been affected with the presence of what is essentially an optional add on game. I am more worried about the introduction of the RMT shop then I am the card game for if anything is about to ruin my gaming experience it might possibly be that cause I prefer the subscription based model.
I just find the screams about the phat loots rather well out of hand, but then that's me. I get free cards every month i pay nothing and have way to many of those phat loots to know that I am accessing it without paying a dime. I also know that I can trade the ingame cards dropped with those who only play the TCG and not SWG for possibly say one of those butt ugly barns lol and that there is a medium for interfacing with people that never loging to SWG but only login to the TCG.
I have no idea if its illegal I dont think it is and I'm not really that bad at reasoning stuff out. Anyhow I will go over it again, but gambling is not something I can see in that. I only see that yes there are people unfortunately that will pay waaaay to much money for a barn card, but those people are going to do that no matter what is done as they lack the bone in their head that gives them the self control to not do that. I can't stop people from being people and change their personalities of spending beyond what they can affort and neither can sony. I also think to put that on any companies shoulders is unfair not just sony's, but blizzard as well becuase they have the same issues with their card game and people do over spend and Blizzard can't really do much about that other then to rake in the cash and possibly shake their heads if someone is mad at them because they over spent.
There is only one difference between the WoW one and the sony one and that is the presence of a paper card. I dont see that making it more legit especially seeing that all the loots that you get from those cards is going to go poof just like the one from SWG one day when someone shuts the games down. NOne of this stuff is owned by anyone and hinging the argument on this paper card thing just doesn't wash. If that were so then digital downloads could possibly be illegal among other things. I mean heck I go play game X (Pick a game .. lots around) I dont buy a disk i buy a digital download (here is a good example sims online) I paid them money and then one day they took all my stuff away. The only difference is that it was that I didn't play a game of war .. i played sims.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up .
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
Yeah I"m not an avid TCG fan. I never saw much wrong with the one in eq2 heck I never even opened the thing until like a couple weeks ago just to compare it to the swg thing. Suffice it to say I was not shocked to see an identical version but with orcs and fairies instead of sith's and jedi in eq2. I simply disagree with the impact that people put on the items people get from the TGC's on the gaming experience for the sole reason that I have played EQ2 with an identical TCG in place and haven't gotten any loot cards at all due to the fact that I Only just opened it just at christmas time. So I have pretty much solid evidence as far as I'm concerned that my gaming experience has not been affected with the presence of what is essentially an optional add on game. I am more worried about the introduction of the RMT shop then I am the card game for if anything is about to ruin my gaming experience it might possibly be that cause I prefer the subscription based model.
I just find the screams about the phat loots rather well out of hand, but then that's me. I get free cards every month i pay nothing and have way to many of those phat loots to know that I am accessing it without paying a dime. I also know that I can trade the ingame cards dropped with those who only play the TCG and not SWG for possibly say one of those butt ugly barns lol and that there is a medium for interfacing with people that never loging to SWG but only login to the TCG.
I have no idea if its illegal I dont think it is and I'm not really that bad at reasoning stuff out. Anyhow I will go over it again, but gambling is not something I can see in that. I only see that yes there are people unfortunately that will pay waaaay to much money for a barn card, but those people are going to do that no matter what is done as they lack the bone in their head that gives them the self control to not do that. I can't stop people from being people and change their personalities of spending beyond what they can affort and neither can sony. I also think to put that on any companies shoulders is unfair not just sony's, but blizzard as well becuase they have the same issues with their card game and people do over spend and Blizzard can't really do much about that other then to rake in the cash and possibly shake their heads if someone is mad at them because they over spent.
There is only one difference between the WoW one and the sony one and that is the presence of a paper card. I dont see that making it more legit especially seeing that all the loots that you get from those cards is going to go poof just like the one from SWG one day when someone shuts the games down. NOne of this stuff is owned by anyone and hinging the argument on this paper card thing just doesn't wash. If that were so then digital downloads could possibly be illegal among other things. I mean heck I go play game X (Pick a game .. lots around) I dont buy a disk i buy a digital download (here is a good example sims online) I paid them money and then one day they took all my stuff away. The only difference is that it was that I didn't play a game of war .. i played sims.
That's cool, we can agree to disagree, we've done it before with no hard feelings
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol . It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
The one caviat is that the loot cards have zero function in the TCG.
Well that's one of the key issues that sets this apart from every other card game I've come across, including WoW's. People are not buying and receiving cards for the TCG. They're gambling for a chance to get something else that has been embedded in the TCG, loot items for SWG (that give performance advantages and that are only available in tradeable form if you gamble for them).
SOE didn't have to set it up that way. No one else seems to set it up that way, but SOE went ahead and did it anyways. SOE seems to do things in a rather unique manner. When they do, players seem to get the muddy end of the stick.
I have nothing against current players of the game. As I've said, some are my good friends. I'd just like to see them get a nice clean stick once in a while.
Comments
Ok so I got tired of reading after the last point. I highlighted.
1st off let me say that I do think the game in itself can be a ripoff. Do I feel SOE is doing anything illegal no they are not.
Why do I feel it can be a rip off? For this fact alone. Person A can spen $100 and buy a box of cards and get 0 loot cards... while person B buys 1 pack for $2.99 and gets 2 loot cards in the same pack. I have experienced both scenerios 1st hand.
Now on to the points I highlighted. The main point you seemed to come back to was the fact that you need a subscription to SWG to play the TCG. This is absolutely not true. I know this 1st hand as well. I play on 2 accounts that have no active subscription to SWG. You may need a station account to play but you can sign up for that at no charge. SO that point goes out the window.
Next you mentioned several times that the loot cards in SWG give a competitive advantage unlike other TCG games. The fact of the matter is that there are only 3-4 cards that give any sort of competitve advantage those being buff cards like the Gorax ear. The problem with your arguement here is these cards are not the highly sought out cards, they do not sell for that much as a matter of fact. The cards that people lust after and spend paychecks on are all cosmetic cards only. Please tell me how a diner or a speeder is going to give you a competitive advantage in the game? It simply gives a status symbol that others will envy.
Lastly you mention several time about the fact the the booster packs are non trade. Ok yes they are no trade however they are free to the player a gift for their subscription to SWG. Only players with active subscriptions to SWG to get the free booster packs again it is a gift from SOE for your loyalty of playing the game.
This does not in anyway shape or form prevent others from playing the game. They will have to purchase their packs, that is all. Or if they have friends playing who have purchased packs and have multiples of cards they can give them to the player. Again they are not required to have any subscriptions to play. They can buy 1 pack and it could have a highly valued loot card in it. If they do not play SWG then they can trade that loot card for , additional packs,boxes ,cards whatever to better their playing deck for the TCG.
Bottom line is SOE is doing nothing wrong here. The game is there for all to play and they reward those who also play their MMO with free packs monthly.
End of story.
You don't have to participate in the TCG.
Nothing gamebreaking.... The podracers are slow, the houses look like crap. The V-Wing is just like the A-Wing but easier to hit.
If you spent a lot of money in this, that's your problem. You weren't guaranteed a loot-card for your purchases, but you did it anyways.
It is amazing that people actually believe that the boosters SOE includes with their subscriptions are free.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Ok so I got tired of reading after the last point. I highlighted.
1st off let me say that I do think the game in itself can be a ripoff. Do I feel SOE is doing anything illegal no they are not.
Why do I feel it can be a rip off? For this fact alone. Person A can spen $100 and buy a box of cards and get 0 loot cards... while person B buys 1 pack for $2.99 and gets 2 loot cards in the same pack. I have experienced both scenerios 1st hand.
Now on to the points I highlighted. The main point you seemed to come back to was the fact that you need a subscription to SWG to play the TCG. This is absolutely not true. I know this 1st hand as well. I play on 2 accounts that have no active subscription to SWG. You may need a station account to play but you can sign up for that at no charge. SO that point goes out the window.
Next you mentioned several times that the loot cards in SWG give a competitive advantage unlike other TCG games. The fact of the matter is that there are only 3-4 cards that give any sort of competitve advantage those being buff cards like the Gorax ear. The problem with your arguement here is these cards are not the highly sought out cards, they do not sell for that much as a matter of fact. The cards that people lust after and spend paychecks on are all cosmetic cards only. Please tell me how a diner or a speeder is going to give you a competitive advantage in the game? It simply gives a status symbol that others will envy.
Lastly you mention several time about the fact the the booster packs are non trade. Ok yes they are no trade however they are free to the player a gift for their subscription to SWG. Only players with active subscriptions to SWG to get the free booster packs again it is a gift from SOE for your loyalty of playing the game.
This does not in anyway shape or form prevent others from playing the game. They will have to purchase their packs, that is all. Or if they have friends playing who have purchased packs and have multiples of cards they can give them to the player. Again they are not required to have any subscriptions to play. They can buy 1 pack and it could have a highly valued loot card in it. If they do not play SWG then they can trade that loot card for , additional packs,boxes ,cards whatever to better their playing deck for the TCG.
Bottom line is SOE is doing nothing wrong here. The game is there for all to play and they reward those who also play their MMO with free packs monthly.
End of story.
You need to pay a subscription fee to SWG or pay for a Station pass to access your cards. That's the point. You need to pay SOE more money to continue to access them. This is all very clearly spelled out on the TCG website. Here are some quotes:
"This first-ever online-only Star Wars® trading card game provides Star Wars Galaxies subscribers with an entirely new gameplay experience by combining the challenge of a trading card game with the adventures and community of the massively multiplayer game!
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game is an online-only trading card game, based on the massively multiplayer online role-playing game Star Wars Galaxies. Playable from within the MMO, Champions of the Force, the first set for Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game, features over 250 digital cards and is available in both 58-card digital starter decks and 15-card digital booster packs.
Station Access subscribers with accounts in good standing are also able to access and play the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game.
Additional recurring subscription fees apply to Star Wars Galaxies and Station Access accounts."
I copied and pasted the relevant statements from the website, and left out some of the fine print to avoid a wall of text.
You need to pay to access the cards you have already purchased. No payment, no access.
The loot cards that provide a competitive advantage include the buff cards you mention and unique vehicles with speed advantages over all other vehicles in the game. Here's the information on the vehicle advantage:
"Card Number: 1SWG17
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
The sith speeder is listed in another wiki as the second fastest vehicle in the game, and is highly maneuverable. They are both only available via the loot cards.
Do you have to pay additional fees to continue to access the cards you have purchased? Yes.
Do the loot cards give SWG players a competitive advantage in the MMO? Yes. It's really that clear.
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
The difference is I would not have to go back to Best Buy and buy something else just to watch the movie every month whereas to use the booster cards I HAVE to pay SOE.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Maybe the should have the Shamwow guy advertise SWG
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Please tell me how my subscription price was raised due to the TCG? I pay EXACTLY the same amount per subscription as I have since launch day June 26th 2003 to today.
SWG has charged exactly the same amount for the one month, 3 month, 6 month and yearly subscription since the game launched.
Just because they didn't raise the price doesn't make the boosters free. You must have a subscription to obtain them thus they are part of what you pay for. It is not free no matter how you spin it.
I don't play the card game, I don't care if I get any of the loot cards, I pay to play SWG.
By your logic if you go to lets say best buy and purchase something and they hand you a random DvD movie as you walk out that DvD is not free to you because you "Had" to buy something to get it.
Strange world you live in..................................
The difference is I would not have to go back to Best Buy and buy something else just to watch the movie every month whereas to use the booster cards I HAVE to pay SOE.
That's just it. You'd have to pay admission to the Best Buy, get a movie as part of the admission fee, and then have to pay the admission fee everytime you wanted to watch it because you wouldn't actually own the movie and it would only be playable at Best Buy. This isn't a strange world-view at all. It is in fact exactly how the TCG is set up. Also, as I've mentioned, I like TCG's, I just don't happen to like this one specifically because of the cash-grabbing gimmicks and recurring fees that some people try to keep hidden. One of the things consumers need to be wary of is "free" phone plans etc. If you read the fine print in many of these, they're not free at all. There are tons of hidden fees. SWG's TCG is just like that. There is extremely small font fine print that explains these hidden fees, which I happened to take the time to read. They still don't admit that people are gambling for loot items (and they are), and I still see that as a huge oversight that may get them into a really bad spot, but they do at least admit that there are recurring fees associated with playing the TCG.
You have to pay SOE something to get the cards. You have to pay them more to use them. There's really no way around this within the bounds of honesty.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
So giving away a vehicle instead of allowing engineers to craft them doesn't hurt engineers? Giving away the first new player structures since the bunker instead of allowing architects to craft them doesn't hurt artchitects? Giving away a brand new ship chassis instead of allowing shipwrights to craft them doesn't hurt shipwrights?
Some people are still so blind to what SOE does to its players.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
lol...
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
P.S. LOL! The stats highlighting all the advantages of the sith speeder were formerly posted on SOE's site. Now the link takes you to a blank page. What a strange coincidence lol, too funny. Sorry I can't get you those Ummax, someone with admin privileges at SOE has decided to remove them it seems. Here's the useless link:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/news_archive.vm?id=68101
Oh someone's been very busy today. The sith speeder stats were also removed just today from the SWG wiki found here:
http://swg.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sith_Speederbike&action=edit&redlink=1
Here's confirmation of the deletion:
"09:30, 6 January 2009 Skinmeister (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sith Speederbike" (content was: 'A Sith-designed, crescent-shaped speeder bike like the one flown by Darth Maul. The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks o...' (and the only contributor was '24.70.42.207')) "
Since someone is on a campaign to remove all accurate information about the vehicle, I'll have to tell you that the speed rankings formerly posted were as follows:
1. podracer (loot card)
2. sith speeder (loot card)
3. barc speeder.
If I can find anything that someone hasn't been quick enough to delete lol, I'll post it, but I bet they've cleaned up after themselves rather thoroughly. If that doesn't suggest to you that something wrong is happening, I'm really not sure what will.
Lol yup, they've cleaned house. The information I read just a couple of days ago has been wiped out, all of it.
The last time there was a wipe-out campaign like this was when the stratics chats promising features in Trials of Obiwan were deleted after the NGE went live. The SWG site and other sites like War-cry had stratics chat logs before the ToOW ads, and after the ToOw ads, with a nice big blank spot where players were promised new creatures in ToOW and profession revamps. Of course, as we all know, creature handlers were then deleted, as were all the other professions promised revamps. Despite this deletion campaign, SOE still ended up giving players refunds in the face of fraud allegations. Well tbh, they didn't get rid of it before many players, myself included, made copies of it. It's my understanding that this information was then provided to the Federal Trade Commission and the State Attorney General -_^.
To be honest, it doesn't seem like SOE has learned all that much since then.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
The one caviat is that the loot cards have zero function in the TCG.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/217080
and here for hockey or other collectible cards:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/215458
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up
.
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/217080
and here for hockey or other collectible cards:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/215458
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up
.
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
Yeah I"m not an avid TCG fan. I never saw much wrong with the one in eq2 heck I never even opened the thing until like a couple weeks ago just to compare it to the swg thing. Suffice it to say I was not shocked to see an identical version but with orcs and fairies instead of sith's and jedi in eq2. I simply disagree with the impact that people put on the items people get from the TGC's on the gaming experience for the sole reason that I have played EQ2 with an identical TCG in place and haven't gotten any loot cards at all due to the fact that I Only just opened it just at christmas time. So I have pretty much solid evidence as far as I'm concerned that my gaming experience has not been affected with the presence of what is essentially an optional add on game. I am more worried about the introduction of the RMT shop then I am the card game for if anything is about to ruin my gaming experience it might possibly be that cause I prefer the subscription based model.
I just find the screams about the phat loots rather well out of hand, but then that's me. I get free cards every month i pay nothing and have way to many of those phat loots to know that I am accessing it without paying a dime. I also know that I can trade the ingame cards dropped with those who only play the TCG and not SWG for possibly say one of those butt ugly barns lol and that there is a medium for interfacing with people that never loging to SWG but only login to the TCG.
I have no idea if its illegal I dont think it is and I'm not really that bad at reasoning stuff out. Anyhow I will go over it again, but gambling is not something I can see in that. I only see that yes there are people unfortunately that will pay waaaay to much money for a barn card, but those people are going to do that no matter what is done as they lack the bone in their head that gives them the self control to not do that. I can't stop people from being people and change their personalities of spending beyond what they can affort and neither can sony. I also think to put that on any companies shoulders is unfair not just sony's, but blizzard as well becuase they have the same issues with their card game and people do over spend and Blizzard can't really do much about that other then to rake in the cash and possibly shake their heads if someone is mad at them because they over spent.
There is only one difference between the WoW one and the sony one and that is the presence of a paper card. I dont see that making it more legit especially seeing that all the loots that you get from those cards is going to go poof just like the one from SWG one day when someone shuts the games down. NOne of this stuff is owned by anyone and hinging the argument on this paper card thing just doesn't wash. If that were so then digital downloads could possibly be illegal among other things. I mean heck I go play game X (Pick a game .. lots around) I dont buy a disk i buy a digital download (here is a good example sims online) I paid them money and then one day they took all my stuff away. The only difference is that it was that I didn't play a game of war .. i played sims.
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
See above re missing information on sith speeder stats. I think you might find that interesting. As for the comparison to Wow's card game, you can see that at this link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/217080
and here for hockey or other collectible cards:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/215458
You've missed a lot of the conversation, trying to catch you up
.
I agree, however, the final decision will be with authorities that regulate online games of chance. I'll respect any decision they come to. I'm sharing my personal impressions, and the reasons for those. If you're ok with the way the TCG game is run, I respect that, your thoughts are as valuable as anyone else's. I just see a lot of things going on that smell like bad fish.
Yeah I"m not an avid TCG fan. I never saw much wrong with the one in eq2 heck I never even opened the thing until like a couple weeks ago just to compare it to the swg thing. Suffice it to say I was not shocked to see an identical version but with orcs and fairies instead of sith's and jedi in eq2. I simply disagree with the impact that people put on the items people get from the TGC's on the gaming experience for the sole reason that I have played EQ2 with an identical TCG in place and haven't gotten any loot cards at all due to the fact that I Only just opened it just at christmas time. So I have pretty much solid evidence as far as I'm concerned that my gaming experience has not been affected with the presence of what is essentially an optional add on game. I am more worried about the introduction of the RMT shop then I am the card game for if anything is about to ruin my gaming experience it might possibly be that cause I prefer the subscription based model.
I just find the screams about the phat loots rather well out of hand, but then that's me. I get free cards every month i pay nothing and have way to many of those phat loots to know that I am accessing it without paying a dime. I also know that I can trade the ingame cards dropped with those who only play the TCG and not SWG for possibly say one of those butt ugly barns lol and that there is a medium for interfacing with people that never loging to SWG but only login to the TCG.
I have no idea if its illegal I dont think it is and I'm not really that bad at reasoning stuff out. Anyhow I will go over it again, but gambling is not something I can see in that. I only see that yes there are people unfortunately that will pay waaaay to much money for a barn card, but those people are going to do that no matter what is done as they lack the bone in their head that gives them the self control to not do that. I can't stop people from being people and change their personalities of spending beyond what they can affort and neither can sony. I also think to put that on any companies shoulders is unfair not just sony's, but blizzard as well becuase they have the same issues with their card game and people do over spend and Blizzard can't really do much about that other then to rake in the cash and possibly shake their heads if someone is mad at them because they over spent.
There is only one difference between the WoW one and the sony one and that is the presence of a paper card. I dont see that making it more legit especially seeing that all the loots that you get from those cards is going to go poof just like the one from SWG one day when someone shuts the games down. NOne of this stuff is owned by anyone and hinging the argument on this paper card thing just doesn't wash. If that were so then digital downloads could possibly be illegal among other things. I mean heck I go play game X (Pick a game .. lots around) I dont buy a disk i buy a digital download (here is a good example sims online) I paid them money and then one day they took all my stuff away. The only difference is that it was that I didn't play a game of war .. i played sims.
That's cool, we can agree to disagree, we've done it before with no hard feelings
EXACTLY! No one forced anyone to spend a small fortune trying to get loot cards.
Well tbh I don't recall anyone accusing SOE of taking money by force. I believe that would be robbery. You're right, they aren't taking money from people by force.
Saying loudly that they aren't guilty of robbery, or any list of possible offences, seems to be a strange way of dodging the real concerns and issues that many people have raised.
The fact remains, however, that if you want tradeable loot cards, the only way to get them is to gamble real cash for them online. I don't think you can deny that, well honestly anyways. And, this is only one of the many concerns raised. PDX is quite right that the loot items also give the shaft to crafters...again. Why? they can't compete with the loot item vehicles in terms of performance, not even close. Once again, crafters are only capable of offering second class goods.
If you want to see the entire list of legitimate concerns (those actually raised by current and former players) you can find these by reading the thread. You're defending SOE against an accusation that I haven't seen anyone make.
The crafter problem is an ongoing one and many people are hoping that the next few updates will address this. However the vehicles are no faster then the ones released in the game as I used an at-at to outrun a sith speeder and then kill the player on the speeder. I am a BH so I was after me bounty. The sith speeder is maneuverable, but not any faster then other cars available. I do not believe its fair to blame this on the TCG alone as this crafter problem was started with the introduction of the very first no craft items awhile back. Also one does have to realize that at christmas time they introduced the stap speeder. This can be backwards engineered (deconstructed) and given to a crafter to upgrade to make into an advanced stap speeder. It has a glancing blow bonus of 80% so its virtually impossible to hit anyone on that thing. Its a menace in reustuss and I have beeen unable to catch it or kill anyone riding one. so to be fair there are other vehicles introduced via other methods. Its unfair though to keep telling people that the fastest and best cars are from the TCG as i'm sorry, but it simply is not true. They look different and people want them for that reason, but they give no added gaming benefit other then coolness factor.
The two buildings I have never seen such an outcry and quite plainly put they are horrible buildings and there is an update coming which will address issues of new structures for traders to craft in the game. ON top of this the furniture for the diner is not available via the TCG they were added as craftable schematics to structure traders in the present. So yes they created a diner that is sub par in comparison to other buildings available but they also created furniture which people can buy from structure traders that will fit in any building.
As for the gambling. I do not understand how people classify the possibility of getting a loot card as gambling? its no more gambling then the possibility of getting a rare drop inside the game. There are rare cards that will require you to buy packages like the hockey cards I used to buy when I was a kid, but no one called it gambling and I remember buying tons of packages to get those stupid cards. Like the rare loot cards or even rare tcg cards you can get there is a chance of getting them, but I do find this argument of gambling to be very thin at best and quite honestly everytime I read it (which has been a few times now) I fail to see the connection and Im not a stupid person not by a long shot. ( i know many here try to paint me as stupid, but that doesnt make it true lol)
Anyhow I enjoy reading your posts archangel and to be honest the gambling stuff really got me thinking and your the reason why I decided to try to take part in discussions here again. I enjoy your information even ifi dont agree with it all lol.
As for the loot card vehicle speed, I'm basing my information on the following quote, as well as from a current player who told me about it in the first place: "Card Number: 1SWG17
The Ord Pedrovia is a one-person, custom-built repulsorlift podracer. The vehicle is a custom Ord Pedrovia similar to the one flown by Gasgano in the Boonta Eve Classic.
The vehicle is a special loot card found in random booster card decks of the Champions of the Force card game available with an active Star Wars Galaxies subscription. If you can claim this loot card during your Champions play, you can drive away with this rare vehicle.
They are faster than any other personal transport in the game..."
This is posted elsewhere, but the threads on this issue are simply huge, so I've copied it here for your convenience.
About the gambling, that's also been discussed very thoroughly, but the short story is this:
People pay real cash for the chance to win an SWG loot card. It's a game of chance, involving a real risk of monetary loss, and some people have lost big time (see post number 2). I'm not against online games of chance involving real cash. However, in order to run one, you need government permission and you need to follow a list of rules that protect players from the game being rigged.
One of the ways players must be protected is that the odds of winning the game of chance involving real money must be independently verified by a third party monitor. The odds of winning or losing a loot card are not available to the general public, and are not independently verified by anyone.
There are many other issues connected with this, but to avoid repeated myself and others too much, I can only suggest that you get yourself your favourite beverage and snack food and work your way through the ttread, if you're really that curious lol
. It's a loooong read, with arguments from probably every angle available. Very informative really.
I read it actualy if you can believe that , but this is what I see. The loot card is simply another rare item in the TCG like the rare cards that you use for playing the game that you also get for TCG. Now I'm using my hockey cards as an example cause it makes sense to me. There are rare cards in those packs that you can get that are not promised that you simply have to buy packs for until you get it. This is identical to the virtual TCG thing we see here. By that very nature every TCG around is illegal including WoW's and any of the non virtual ones around (pokemon, hockey and baseball cards etc) cause they all have that "chance" of giving you that rare thing. So if the sony TCG is illegal or proven so then it is going to set a huge precident and every other TCG around is going to be automatically rulled as illegal including those ones where I get the paper cards that have no virtual pixel version to them at all. I find it hard to believe and even swallow that there are so many illegal card games floating around for what amoutns to now 20+ years and that no one has batted an eyelid till this one. I'm sorry, but the only person that will prove this to me is a judge and the lawyer that makes the case, but if this case is made they are all gonna be shut down cause the loot card is simply an extension of the rare cards that have been a part of these games for longer then sony online games or blizzards WoW have even existed.
The one caviat is that the loot cards have zero function in the TCG.
Well that's one of the key issues that sets this apart from every other card game I've come across, including WoW's. People are not buying and receiving cards for the TCG. They're gambling for a chance to get something else that has been embedded in the TCG, loot items for SWG (that give performance advantages and that are only available in tradeable form if you gamble for them).
SOE didn't have to set it up that way. No one else seems to set it up that way, but SOE went ahead and did it anyways. SOE seems to do things in a rather unique manner. When they do, players seem to get the muddy end of the stick.
I have nothing against current players of the game. As I've said, some are my good friends. I'd just like to see them get a nice clean stick once in a while.