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Secret Quest: The Path of the Christian Gnostics

I'm not posting this to be critical of historical figures or groups, instead I'm posting it to pose a question.

After viewing this clip a question that comes to my mind is this.  Are there other texts out there of the teachings of Jesus Christ that someone intentionally withheld from me?  And if so, how can I get access to these?  Wouldn't every Christian want to know everything that Christ taught?  Not just what was selected for us to see?  Having these texts could put what we are familiar with into completely new and more realistic contexts for us to study and understand.

 

Secret Quest: The Path of the Christian Gnostics

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Comments

  • WharmasterWharmaster Member Posts: 234

     Oh, I'm sure there is a lot of material withheld by the Vatican, and others, which may cast a less than perfect light on xianity in general if ever made public.

    I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"

  • upallnightupallnight Member Posts: 1,154
    Originally posted by Wharmaster


     Oh, I'm sure there is a lot of material withheld by the Vatican, and others, which may cast a less than perfect light on xianity in general if ever made public.

    Actually, I was thinking it might show an even more inclusive nature of Jesus and free some people from their preconceived notions that Christianity is so restrictive and authoritative.  It's really hard to find God with the fear of approaching him that so many feel, whether it be blatant fear felt by Christians or subliminal fear that shows itself in hatred and rejection of the religion or its teachings by others.

    I have a feeling that Jesus wanted to free all men and women to approach God with the burdens of the confusion of their lives lifted so that they could experience only the love.  The love that can only be understood by experiencing the pain of this world and knowing that hope is there.  The pain of life hurts, but it hurts even more if you think there is no hope.

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  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    God creates man, God gives word to man, Man decides what word to spread. Interesting...

    Politics influencing religion, you don't say...

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • WharmasterWharmaster Member Posts: 234
    Originally posted by upallnight

    Originally posted by Wharmaster


     Oh, I'm sure there is a lot of material withheld by the Vatican, and others, which may cast a less than perfect light on xianity in general if ever made public.

    Actually, I was thinking it might show an even more inclusive nature of Jesus and free some people from their preconceived notions that Christianity is so restrictive and authoritative.  It's really hard to find God with the fear of approaching him that so many feel, whether it be blatant fear felt by Christians or subliminal fear that shows itself in hatred and rejection of the religion or its teachings by others.

    I have a feeling that Jesus wanted to free all men and women to approach God with the burdens of the confusion of their lives lifted so that they could experience only the love.  The love that can only be understood by experiencing the pain of this world and knowing that hope is there.  The pain of life hurts, but it hurts even more if you think there is no hope.

    well, TBH, I typically stay out of religious discussions, since I have nothing but disgust for xianity in any form.

    However, some of the recent discoveries in archaeology and what-not have revealed some ancient texts that are quite facinating...and one wonders how fast the Vatican will attempt to cover them up...and how many other bits of text, and lost scripture they have concealed in their vaults.

    If people got the notion that they didn't NEED a formal, organized church, and that goD was everywhere, especially within themselves, things might go badly for the church.

    And it might be interesting to see what happened when all the different sects, and churches realised they all have a very profound common ground...and that they were all "right"...and "wrong" at once.

    Although I pray to a different goD than they do...I think there's a universal truth in all worship:

    What matters is the relationship you hold with your deity of choice. Not some rules, or church, or book. Your personal, intimate connection with your goD.

    In fact, I go so far as to say...we each are our own, private church, and that these bloated, power-hungery, hate-mongering organizations are an insult to the goD they claim to worship.

     

    I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"

  • MarleVVLLMarleVVLL Member UncommonPosts: 905

    There are sevaral texts that have a date composition of ~50 - 100 AD that weren't marked at canon. It is an interesting study if you look into it. However, what is in the Bible today is sufficient for the purpose of the Bible - experience salvation (its three fold - justification, santification and glorification). Also, in order for something to be canonized, that text must have some very special things to it, ie, did an Apostle write it? Was it written in the generation of Jesus? Was it someone who was with Jesus?

    So, if you were wondering, what is in the Scripture is sufficient. You may not believe me, and that is your choice and I respect that, but if you were to disagree, please study hard why exactly you disagree. Just to say, "the church changed it" is ignorant - because that isn't true. There are so many ancient manuscripts that, when compared to the ones we have today in our laps, are not changed at all - minus the language difference.

    I do not want to get into a religion debate because I don't have time, but for the heck of it, praying to 'your own' god will get nothing done because a god made up from an imaginiation is not a god but an imaginiation. It will not answer nor satisfy you.

    Blessings,

    i study greek and latin

  • upallnightupallnight Member Posts: 1,154
    Originally posted by MarleVVLL


    There are sevaral texts that have a date composition of ~50 - 100 AD that weren't marked at canon. It is an interesting study if you look into it. However, what is in the Bible today is sufficient for the purpose of the Bible - experience salvation (its three fold - justification, santification and glorification). Also, in order for something to be canonized, that text must have some very special things to it, ie, did an Apostle write it? Was it written in the generation of Jesus? Was it someone who was with Jesus?
    So, if you were wondering, what is in the Scripture is sufficient. You may not believe me, and that is your choice and I respect that, but if you were to disagree, please study hard why exactly you disagree. Just to say, "the church changed it" is ignorant - because that isn't true. There are so many ancient manuscripts that, when compared to the ones we have today in our laps, are not changed at all - minus the language difference.
    I do not want to get into a religion debate because I don't have time, but for the heck of it, praying to 'your own' god will get nothing done because a god made up from an imaginiation is not a god but an imaginiation. It will not answer nor satisfy you.
    Blessings,

    It's sort of hard to study texts that are being kept hidden from us.

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  • WharmasterWharmaster Member Posts: 234
    Originally posted by MarleVVLL
     
    I do not want to get into a religion debate because I don't have time, but for the heck of it, praying to 'your own' god will get nothing done because a god made up from an imaginiation is not a god but an imaginiation. It will not answer nor satisfy you.
    Blessings,

    Since you are obviously referring to me here, I will enlighten you. I am a Luciferian Satanist. Yes, my prayers DO serve a purpose, thank you very much.

    My faith is stronger than nearly anyone I've met in my life. The existance and love of my Lord is confirmed to me on a daily basis, and to those near to me who share my faith.

    It may confuse you to know that I encourage each and every person to find their own goD, and reason to worship. I do not lay claim that my Lord is the "only goD", and that our way is the "only way".

    Each person is different, in flesh, mind, and spirit. To each their own, specially in matters of faith.

    I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"

  • FinweFinwe Member CommonPosts: 3,106

    There's an interesting hebrew law. That the word of something must be authenticated on the word of at least two witnesses.

    Alot of the point of cannonization was corroboration with other A.D. written scriptures, as well as that of the Tanakh.

    Want to find truth and enlightenment in christianity? Look to the past, look to the old testament. It's like the saying, "To learn about our future. We must first master our past."

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  • runeofmagicruneofmagic Member Posts: 16
    Originally posted by upallnight


    I'm not posting this to be critical of historical figures or groups, instead I'm posting it to pose a question.
    After viewing this clip a question that comes to my mind is this.  Are there other texts out there of the teachings of Jesus Christ that someone intentionally withheld from me?  And if so, how can I get access to these?  Wouldn't every Christian want to know everything that Christ taught?  Not just what was selected for us to see?  Having these texts could put what we are familiar with into completely new and more realistic contexts for us to study and understand.
     
    Secret Quest: The Path of the Christian Gnostics

    Who was jesus christ?  You say you follow this person called jesus yet you don`t even realise that there was never anyone in the bible called jesus christ, that name is the latin name given to him  by european racists.

    The greeks were the first to change his name then the latin name Iseus ,then the british put a J at the start ,hence the word jesus, it`s all one big lie.

    His name is Yeshua Bin Yosef and he didn`t have blone hair and blue eyes.

     

    Call him by his real name if you really believe in him.

  • MarleVVLLMarleVVLL Member UncommonPosts: 905

    @ upallnight: I was not referring to the texts that haven't been included in the Canon.

    @ runeofmagic: I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but in essense, you're right. Our texts are translations of the original. Christ is a greek word which is the translated word of messiah, which means the anointed one of God. Yeshua is His Hebrew name - yet our translations render it, "Jesus".

    @ Wharmater: My point wasn't to dog on people, my point was to serve people. Just because someone 'prays' to a 'god' doesn't mean that the prayers are effective or even heard for that matter. For the prayer to matter, that god must REALLY in REAL time exist and have interest in the person praying and the content of the prayer. Just to make up a god and pray to it is ultimately a waste of time. People need to find the TRUE and LIVING God, of which I believe the Bible points to :-) thats all.

    If you are up to it, I don't really know what satanists really believe. Want to PM? I've only heard of followers yet have never talked one.

    Blessings,

    i study greek and latin

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Apocrypha

    Pseudopigrapha

    Gnostic Gospels

     

    All left out of the canon because they etiher are completely contradictory to what the rest of the Bible preaches, or because they are not verifiable enough, among a few other smaller reasons not having anything to do with the vatican.

     

    Since your concern is primarily with the Gnostics...i'll just tell you that the Gnostic gospels appeared some time after the life of Paul, they were written some time after the Canon, and were therefore not included.  To say nothing of the dubious theology of the Gnostics, their timeline was all wrong as well.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • ThrakkThrakk Member Posts: 1,226

    I googled "christ himalayas" and this was the first thing to come up:

    www.atmajyoti.org/spirwrit-the_christ_of_india.asp

     

    I don't know if this site is any better than the rest but I like the texts of Christ in the Himalayas.

  • ThrakkThrakk Member Posts: 1,226
    Originally posted by Thrakk


    I googled "christ himalayas" and this was the first thing to come up:
    www.atmajyoti.org/spirwrit-the_christ_of_india.asp
     
    I don't know if this site is any better than the rest but I like the texts of Christ in the Himalayas.

     

    ahhh, here is the site I like:

    www.burningcross.net/crusades/jesus-in-vedas.html

     

    hehe, this site is trying to prove he wasnt at the himalayas.. the site is burningcross.com afterall.

    Anyways, the site has to mention that someone similar to Jesus was mentioned in the Vedas...

    and if you google vedas and jesus you can get other similar sites, some that aren't biased by christians. like this one maybe: vedicearth.com/veda-christian.php or www.lebensplan.com/puranas/jesus.html (I'm not gonna go through the whole site right now)

    You can imagine that there would be lots of skepticism about Jesus visiting the Himalayas. The skeptics themselves should accept that the Bible could have been falsified just as much as the Puranas

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562

    Nothing is being withheld from you. Just go to your local bookstore or search the web, There are hundreds of books about the gnostic and other early Christian writings.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by upallnight

    Originally posted by MarleVVLL


    There are sevaral texts that have a date composition of ~50 - 100 AD that weren't marked at canon. It is an interesting study if you look into it. However, what is in the Bible today is sufficient for the purpose of the Bible - experience salvation (its three fold - justification, santification and glorification). Also, in order for something to be canonized, that text must have some very special things to it, ie, did an Apostle write it? Was it written in the generation of Jesus? Was it someone who was with Jesus?
    So, if you were wondering, what is in the Scripture is sufficient. You may not believe me, and that is your choice and I respect that, but if you were to disagree, please study hard why exactly you disagree. Just to say, "the church changed it" is ignorant - because that isn't true. There are so many ancient manuscripts that, when compared to the ones we have today in our laps, are not changed at all - minus the language difference.
    I do not want to get into a religion debate because I don't have time, but for the heck of it, praying to 'your own' god will get nothing done because a god made up from an imaginiation is not a god but an imaginiation. It will not answer nor satisfy you.
    Blessings,

    It's sort of hard to study texts that are being kept hidden from us.

    Nothing is being hidden -- it's all publicly available. I have dozens of books about it in my own library. Just hit up the Religion section of Borders. Plenty there for you.

  • andeemann10andeemann10 Member Posts: 237
    Originally posted by Wharmaster

    Originally posted by MarleVVLL
     
    I do not want to get into a religion debate because I don't have time, but for the heck of it, praying to 'your own' god will get nothing done because a god made up from an imaginiation is not a god but an imaginiation. It will not answer nor satisfy you.
    Blessings,

    Since you are obviously referring to me here, I will enlighten you. I am a Luciferian Satanist. Yes, my prayers DO serve a purpose, thank you very much.

    My faith is stronger than nearly anyone I've met in my life. The existance and love of my Lord is confirmed to me on a daily basis, and to those near to me who share my faith.

    It may confuse you to know that I encourage each and every person to find their own goD, and reason to worship. I do not lay claim that my Lord is the "only goD", and that our way is the "only way".

    Each person is different, in flesh, mind, and spirit. To each their own, specially in matters of faith.

    The fact that a Luciferian Satanist encourages all to individually find their own god is not confusing in the slightest. In fact, if you did claim that your god was the only god and that everyone else is wrong, then I'd say that you aren't a very good Luciferian Satanist.

     

    ------------------------------
    "Capitalism is currently working as intended."

  • SharajatSharajat Member Posts: 926
    Originally posted by MarleVVLL 
    @ Wharmater: My point wasn't to dog on people, my point was to serve people. Just because someone 'prays' to a 'god' doesn't mean that the prayers are effective or even heard for that matter. For the prayer to matter, that god must REALLY in REAL time exist and have interest in the person praying and the content of the prayer. Just to make up a god and pray to it is ultimately a waste of time. People need to find the TRUE and LIVING God, of which I believe the Bible points to :-) thats all.

    Now why is the Christian God the True and Living God, instead of the Hindu Gods or something?  

    In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

    -Thomas Jefferson

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586
    Originally posted by Draenor


    Apocrypha
    Pseudopigrapha
    Gnostic Gospels
     
    All left out of the canon because they etiher are completely contradictory to what the rest of the Bible preaches, or because they are not verifiable enough, among a few other smaller reasons not having anything to do with the vatican.
     
    Since your concern is primarily with the Gnostics...i'll just tell you that the Gnostic gospels appeared some time after the life of Paul, they were written some time after the Canon, and were therefore not included.  To say nothing of the dubious theology of the Gnostics, their timeline was all wrong as well.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't many of the teaching throughout the New Testament contradict or reverse some of the teachings in the Old Testament?

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Originally posted by Briansho

    Originally posted by Draenor


    Apocrypha
    Pseudopigrapha
    Gnostic Gospels
     
    All left out of the canon because they etiher are completely contradictory to what the rest of the Bible preaches, or because they are not verifiable enough, among a few other smaller reasons not having anything to do with the vatican.
     
    Since your concern is primarily with the Gnostics...i'll just tell you that the Gnostic gospels appeared some time after the life of Paul, they were written some time after the Canon, and were therefore not included.  To say nothing of the dubious theology of the Gnostics, their timeline was all wrong as well.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't many of the teaching throughout the New Testament contradict or reverse some of the teachings in the Old Testament?

     

    That is a point that has been raised many times, on this board and elsewhere. The most common argument I have seen is that The old testament detailed one agreement between god and the people, but Jesus detailed a new one that overrode the old.

    As a nonbeliever, I just find it ironic that almost as soon as the old rules are made largely irrelevant and unwanted by the Romans and their form of civilization, they are replaced.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Briansho

    Originally posted by Draenor


    Apocrypha
    Pseudopigrapha
    Gnostic Gospels
     
    All left out of the canon because they etiher are completely contradictory to what the rest of the Bible preaches, or because they are not verifiable enough, among a few other smaller reasons not having anything to do with the vatican.
     
    Since your concern is primarily with the Gnostics...i'll just tell you that the Gnostic gospels appeared some time after the life of Paul, they were written some time after the Canon, and were therefore not included.  To say nothing of the dubious theology of the Gnostics, their timeline was all wrong as well.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't many of the teaching throughout the New Testament contradict or reverse some of the teachings in the Old Testament?

     

    Not exactly. But then, that view would all depend on how you interpret both. When Jesus spoke with the people, he was asking folks to move away from a legalistic interpretion of the law more towards a spiritual, theme-oriented interpretation.

    The idea was the people were getting too hung up on the letter of the law (much like today's fundamentalists), and forgetting about the spirit of the law and its purpose -- which was threefold: to draw men closer to God, to encourage us all to love one another and work together for the betterment of society, and to teach us that we all fall short of perfection (hence the need for redemption and forgiveness).

    In Jesus' time, people were using the Law as a means to oppress one another and to practice cruelty (much like today, my how some things never change). Jesus rebuked that and taught for us to live in the spirit, by love, which was the purpose of the law in the first place.

    This is why to some, this might seem a contradiction, but the only contradiction is in legalism vs spiritualism. If you are a literalist, however -- they might seem contradictory -- which is another problem with a literalistic or fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible.

    For instance, if God commands "Thou shalt not jaywalk," yet the He says, "seek to preserve life," someone running out into the middle of the street to save a child might seem in contradiction -- but only in the most literal sense. It comes from recognizing that the reason one makes Jaywalking illegal it to preserve human life, so when one violates that rule to preserve human life one is not violating the higher law in which the lesser law is rooted.

     

  • MarleVVLLMarleVVLL Member UncommonPosts: 905
    Originally posted by Sharajat


    Now why is the Christian God the True and Living God, instead of the Hindu Gods or something?  

     

    That is a good question.

    Its because He proved/s it and the hindu gods cant and will not.

    Blessings,

    i study greek and latin

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Originally posted by MarleVVLL

    Originally posted by Sharajat


    Now why is the Christian God the True and Living God, instead of the Hindu Gods or something?  

     

    That is a good question.

    Its because He proved/s it and the hindu gods cant and will not.

    Blessings,

     

    Um, right.

    Did I miss something? If unverified textual "proof" is given a fair chance at equality, the Christian god has no more proof going for him than any of thousands of other religions, most of which are now dead and gone.

    Or are you talking about something other than the bible and related texts? Textual evidence is a fickle thing, over such long periods, there is nothing to say that the core body of the text did not start off the same way Tolkien's Middle Earth did, a couple of bedtime stories for his children.

    Except for that and any personal experiences, the only substantial evidence that any of the Judeochristian religions are true is the fact that they comprise the by far majority of the world's population.

    That of course is no reason on its own not to believe. God does not need proof to inspire faith.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Aelfinn

    Originally posted by MarleVVLL

    Originally posted by Sharajat


    Now why is the Christian God the True and Living God, instead of the Hindu Gods or something?  

     

    That is a good question.

    Its because He proved/s it and the hindu gods cant and will not.

    Blessings,

     

    Um, right.

    Did I miss something? If unverified textual "proof" is given a fair chance at equality, the Christian god has no more proof going for him than any of thousands of other religions, most of which are now dead and gone.

    Or are you talking about something other than the bible and related texts? Textual evidence is a fickle thing, over such long periods, there is nothing to say that the core body of the text did not start off the same way Tolkien's Middle Earth did, a couple of bedtime stories for his children.

    Except for that and any personal experiences, the only substantial evidence that any of the Judeochristian religions are true is the fact that they comprise the by far majority of the world's population.

    That of course is no reason on its own not to believe. God does not need proof to inspire faith.

     

    Actually the word we translate as "faith" from the new testament is pistis. It means "to be convinced" as in evidence. That is how Aristotle and Plato used the word. the Christian faith is evidentiary.

    How thoroughly have you studied the evidence? The validity of the various texts, historical accuracy of the New Testament, the claims of the gospels and so on?

    I went from being a pretty hardcore non-believer to a believer after studying the evidence over the course of many years. I fought very hard against what I thought was pretty much what you seem to think it is, but in the end, the evidence convinced me.

    For me God very much needed proof for me to believe. Proof which he provided.

  • MarleVVLLMarleVVLL Member UncommonPosts: 905

    Fishermage is right in saying there are many convicing proofs in Scripture, and there are. I'm also talking about miracles. Heh, all you have to do is youtube Todd Bently, Benny Hinn or Reinhart Bonnke to see some.

    Blessings,

    i study greek and latin

  • SharajatSharajat Member Posts: 926

    Benny Hinn.... yay!  Comedy hour!  When even 60 minutes rips an act to shreds, you know you have a nice good helping of fraud on your hands.

    In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

    -Thomas Jefferson

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