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The truth about WoW: for anyone thinking about trying it

IMO this post should be stickied.

 

First.. get a free trial... that is worth much more then I can say here!

The following is my opinion:

WoW is the most successful western MMO ever made.  In any room full of people you can almost guarantee there is a WoW player or two... this has never been true of any other MMO in the US. 

World of Warcraft is an incredibly high quality product... somthing very rare in the genre.  The quality is clearly visible in the overall look and feel of the world and characters, the gameplay, and the content. 

Part1: Leveling- 

Now that WoW has two expansions the original game world has a fairly low population (though still not bad for a four year old MMO!).  Because this is the case Blizzard has made leveling from 1-60 much faster and easier.  Level 1-80 can easily be accomplished solo, without ever being forced to rely on the help of others.  It seems to me that doing the quests with friends or other random players does make things go faster.. it also makes it possible to complete quests that are too difficult for a single player... quests you would have to skip over if you were solo'ing.  The fact remains however that solo questing is the generally accepted method of leveling in WoW.

Starting at relatively low level there are five man dungeon instances available.  These dungeons require a 5 man group consisting of at least one tank and one healer.  The dungeons provide challenging team play for those who are more interested in playing with others.  The dungeons are linear instanced experiences where you will kill monsters to progress.. eventually coming to a boss.  You will have to successfully kill that boss to proceed... then comes more monsters and another more difficult boss... repeat several times until you come to the "end boss" of the instance.   Instances not only provide a nice challenge but also provide nice loot in many cases.  You could probably level all the way from level 15 to 80 doing nothing but group instances if you were so inclined.  I myself have leveled exclusively off instances since level 40 or so.

Part2:PvP- 

PvP in WoW consists primarily of Battleground instances.  These are mini-games where two opposing teams are formed (and limited to a certain number.. say 15 per team) and set against one another in an objective based environment.. the simplest being classic capture the flag.  There are quite a few different battlegrounds now that become available as you level up.  Battleground participation is restricted to level "tiers" so if you are level 25 you will be playing only with other players between 20 and 29... if you are 34 you will be playing with players level 30 to 39 etc.  The PvP will earn you honor which you can spend on gear upgrades.

World PvP is mostly exclusive to PvP servers.  On PvP servers you can openly attack any member of the opposing team (horde or alliance) at any time throughout much of the world.  World PvP pretty much died out with the introduction of "civilian NPC's" and the popularity of Battlegrounds.  There is a new World PVP area in the new expansion, available regardless of your server type.  This is basically an open Battleground where teams are not restricted in any way.. so you can bring as many friends as you want and things are not likely to be fair or even =).  This new area features destructible walls etc.

Arena PvP is available at high levels and offers a structured competition.  You for a permanent team of 2, 3, or 5 players and compete in a tiered competition (like real life sports).  Teams that do very well are rewarded with exclusive gear and items.

Part3: Endgame PvE-

Endgame PvE involves dungeons of increasing difficulty.  The last 10 levels worth of dungeons are available as "heroic" versions suitable for a max level character.  Heroic dungeons are very difficult and require precise teamwork with a 5 player team consisting of at least one tank and one healer.  Each of these "heroic" instances is a different level of difficulty, so as you master one, you move on to the next.  "Heroic" dungeons offer exclusive loot of a rather high quality as rewards.

Raids are dungeon instances requiring more then 5 players on the team.  They range from 10 person to 40 person, though the 40 man content is obsolete and no longer really viable.  Most current raids require between 10 and 25 players, with multiple healers and tanks.  Again the raids available vary in difficulty, so as you become able to complete one, you move on to the next more difficult one.

 

Part3: Graphics- 

Many people on these forums claim that WoW has terrible graphics.. here is the facts...  WoW's graphics are a highly stylized cartoonish style.  The polygon count is very low allowing the game to run well on almost any computer, but detracting from overall graphical quality.  In my opinion the fantastic quality and color of the textures and art design more then makes up for the low poly count.  It really is a matter of taste, and as I'm sure you have seen here on MMORPG.com there are plenty of people who hate them... but remember there are 11 million people who find them satisfactory =).  Dont rely on screenshots to judge the graphics as you really need to see the world in motion to appreciate it.  I recommend a free trial to see how you feel about the graphics.

Part4: Challenge-

Another complaint of the vocal minority is that WoW lacks challenge.  The basis for this is the fact that any player, regardless of skill level is able to attain max level through solo questing rather easily.. the only thing skill will change is how long it takes.  For those who seek a challenge (like myself) the answer is mostly in the dungeon instances.  Starting the dungeon instances at a lower level then is generally recommended will give you a very high level of difficulty..  you will most likely reach a point where you can not progress any further because it becomes too challenging for your characters.  As you gain a level or two you will be able to complete the dungeon and that is a great feeling!  End game raiding is also extremely challenging, but time consuming. 

Part5: Crafting- 

Crafting in WoW is a fairly simplistic system.  Basically you collect "ingredients" either by getting them from the world yourself, or from buying them on the auction house from other players.  Once you have the ingredients you just click.. wait a minute and the item is created.  Leveling up your crafting skill to make better, higher level items requires money more then anything else for ingredients.  You continually make the highest level items you can to increase your skill and become able to make even higher level items.

Part6:  Whats the downside?-

The biggest downside of WoW really applies only to us MMO veterans from the old school games.  WoW lacks some features that us old timers really miss from other games... things like player housing, challenging crafting, harsh death penalties, and "meaningful" PvP (meaning where you can actually take over parts of the world or loot the other players items).  

Most players will eventually become tired of WoW because in the end you are basically doing the same things over and over again.... but in reality what game is that not true of?   I would say most players play WoW on and off as the mood strikes for years, and many return especially when there is a new expansion pack.

Part7: Immature players?-

Many wow critics complain that WoW is full of kids and immature gamers.  This is partially true.. especially on PvP servers.  Generally this is really a result simply of the number of players that play WoW and the fact that it is not a "niche" game with a relatively small population of a select type of player.

To avoid immature players as much as possible I suggest creating your character on a RP, or RP-PvP server.  These servers have a noticeably better community because "kids" arent interested in roleplay.  Playing on a roleplay server does not mean that you have to roleplay.. its very likely that you will play out your time on a roleplay server without even often seeing others roleplay.

 

Part8: What does WoW have that no one else does?-

WoW is generally considered to be higher quality then the competition.  Probably the only game that might compete in the opinion of some is LOTRO, but LOTRO offers a lot less to do then WoW.

WoW has unique "dances" for each race/sex... jokes that each character can tell, fantastic animation, and tons of emotes.  These features are largely taken advantage of in the making of "Machinima"... player made movies created using WoW... often humorous.  These movies are available on youtube.... or if you are curious go to www.myspace.com/ravensong3 and click the links under "Movies" on the left border of the screen about halfway down... I have a bunch of my favorites linked there. 

Last and most important is WoW's player base.  WoW has more players and more importantly, retains more players then any other MMO.. this means more people for you to play with!  A well populated game world is important to the enjoyment of an MMO.  You are also much more likely to get friends and family to play WoW with you =), especially since it does not require an expensive gaming computer.

I hope you found this post informative and helpful! 

Don't let the naysayers talk you out of trying the worlds most successful MMORPG! Download the free trial.. just google WoW free trial to find it.

 

Grymm Ravensong

Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!

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Comments

  • AlcuinAlcuin Member UncommonPosts: 331

     Well done, Swiftblade13;  not without bias, but objective enough for new players to get a true feel of the game.

    And well written and well organized to boot! 

     

     

    _____________________________
    "Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"

  • KroggKrogg Member Posts: 480

    Great summary.

    9/10

  • andeemann10andeemann10 Member Posts: 237

    To the graphics comment: You said that 11 million people worldwide find them satisfactory. None of those people are gold farmers?

    I'm a big one of those 'naysayers' as you so put it. I will admit that WoW has quality, with a 60 million dollar deveopment budget, it would be sad if it was of poor quality. 

    But WoW has many issues, and Blizzard does many things wrong.

    1. They rely completely on the endgame. You said so yourself that they made the 1-60 leveling super quick because Blizzard now only views the end part of the game the part worth playing.

    2. They increase the level cap. Their answer to giving more content is raising the level cap, which although people don't seem to see a problem with, it's kind of like applying a band-aid to a flesh wound. It creates a feeling of being obsolete, and it makes people level their characters not for the enjoyment of developement, but so that they won't be obsolete in the world and against other players. 

    3. Their answer to more content in between expansions is the item grind. Nice new armor you just spent hours of playtime working to get- in two months it won't be worth crap. It goes again with the feeling of being obsolete. 

    Also, some of the worst costumer services experiences I ever had were with Blizzard. It made me feel not like a valued player, but someone who they could reach into their pocket every month and pull out 15 dollars.

    ------------------------------
    "Capitalism is currently working as intended."

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,708

    Very nice info about WoW, but a couple of things I think should be added:

    Endgame PvP: Endgame PvP is done in arenas (2vs2, 3vs3 or 5vs5 deathmatches with permanent teams fighting each other). Since the gear to do it is obtained through PvP, it's a viable alternative to endgame PvE. So once you've levelled up you can decide to concentrate either on PvP or PvE, or both. Also endgame PvP doesn't require as much time as raiding, you can very well do it even if you play only a couple of hours per week.

    User interface customization: Blizzard allows users to fully customize or redo any part of the interface by making addons. Using those isn't really necessary (except for a couple ones when you get into endgame), but if you wish you can modify your interface to suit your own personal playstyle better than in any other MMO.

    Auction house & inventory management systems: Auction house system in the game is very good, and also inventory management is done so that it's possible to handle it quickly and effectively once you learn it. For those of us who want to collect everything and benefit from it, but think that time spend organizing your inventory is boring, WoW is a good game.

     
  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501

    I strongly recommend the /sticky stick to be used on this thread.

    To the, as he define himself, naysayer.

    Gold seller: and < insert your favorite game here> doesn't?? EVERY MMO has gold sellers! face it! it is not a WoW problem, it is a global problem! yes, a fraction of those 11 mils account are gold sellers. As a fraction of those XXXX accounts for <insert your game here> are as well. The only thing you could argue for is that the % would be higher in WoW, but there is no proof or fact to that.

    Your other comments basically boils down to "I am sad WoW is this kind of game and I would like it to do something completely different".

    Fine you can be sad, but WoW is this kind of game and it follows this kind of game rules. Guess what? Everquest raised the level cap several time, EQ2 did as well. LOTRO has just now raised the level cap as well, so what is exactly your point? theme park like games rise the level cap? geez, I did not know that!

    Yes, we could have a philosophical discussion on the value of levels and what not.... but this is not the thread for that, WoW is a level based game and nothing will change that. period. for the good and the bad.

     

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Volkmar

    Fine you can be sad, but WoW is this kind of game and it follows this kind of game rules. Guess what? Everquest raised the level cap several time, EQ2 did as well. LOTRO has just now raised the level cap as well, so what is exactly your point? theme park like games rise the level cap? geez, I did not know that!
    Yes, we could have a philosophical discussion on the value of levels and what not.... but this is not the thread for that, WoW is a level based game and nothing will change that. period. for the good and the bad.

    Yeah, and that was what killed Everquest, having to high levelcap is dangerous. That was why Blizzard made it easier to level up, no one would like to start a game where most players are  so far away from you that you hardly see them.

    I'd rather that they added more content and talent trees myself and kept the level cap at the original level. As you said almost all companies raise the cap but that doesn't mean it is a good idea. It might sell a few extra expansions initially but it will affect the balance in the game.

    On the other hand they seems to have learned a lesson good: now there isn't a great gap between the items from the old and new expansion. Another of the things that killed of EQ was that all items from older expansions were useless since new stuff was much better even if it was the same level. I know EQ is still around but it is hardly "alive" anymore.

    Nothing else I agree with naysayer however, really nice post about ups and downs of Wow, OP

  • KordeshKordesh Member Posts: 1,715

     Your version of "truth" differs vastly from mine...you lost me at "most successful" and "high quality"

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • slask777slask777 Member Posts: 706

    Funny how people equate numbers with quality. Billions of flies like shit, so shit must be good yeah???

    WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW.

    Most people in WoW only think about their own advancement and enjoyment of the game, giving no thought at all to anyone else, except when they need them to further advance themselfes. Just look at how new players are treated. I was sickened for a while when I still played WoW with the way the newb was treated by the general community. The community in WoW is, to put it blunt, full of self-centered pricks who would like nothing more than to walk all over you to get whatever shiny carrot Blizzard dangle infront of them, My suggestion, and method to avoid them is to turn off public chat channels and only group with guildies and real life friends. Sadly, that put me in the same category as the rest of the community and in the long run, didn't solve anything.

    The economy is out of whack. When people charge 1000's of golds for mediocre items that only require some grind to get you know something is wrong. Saw a blue twink dagger just before I quit the game sell for over 10k gold Goldsellers and their buyers run rampant in WoW and it feels like Blizzard don't do squat to remove them from the game. Sure, you get the occasional massban but it been quite a while since last Blizzard had one of those.

    WoW's pvp is WoW's pvp. It's made for the general public aswell. It's a meaningless grind to get shiny's. Some people praise it's pvp, the battlegrounds and arena's, calling them hardcore and epic. This is bollocks as you can afk gain pvp epics, and lots of people do just that. You don't even have to pvp to get them as in the Arenas you start with 1500 points to spend on shinys and its so easy to exploit to get those epics it's laughable.

    The problem with WoW is that it's way too item-centric. Another problem with WoW, and that one bleeds into other games as well, is it's community. As a mmorpg player from the Anarchy Online days I feel like the general mmo public become more and more immature and disrespectful.

    Oh well, despite all that I managed to survive 3 years in WoW, but through those 3 years I had quite a few breaks from the game and I doubt I managed to clock over 1000 hours in the game. I installed XFire to clock my gaming hours a few years back and have since then spent a little over 600 hours in WoW.

    To end this, WoW is a good game but I feel the OP is too biased and paint a picture perfect of that particular game. Criticism is always good.

    ---
    Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.

  • VistaakahVistaakah Member Posts: 176




    Good summary but you can't say WOW was polished at release. They've had 4 plus years of people losing a day a week to play do to scheduled maintenance to clean it up. No other game in my MMO history has had so much downtime for scheduled maintenance.

     

    What makes WOW appeasling is that all the classes are highly effective at soloing in both PVE as well as PVP. The majority of the long term WOW player base are first time MMO players. The learning curve is pretty much non existant and well you can level VERY fast with a good quest guide. The things that first appealed to me coming from DAOC were the Hunter class. I finally had a pet that was dangerous. Yes a effective pet class finally. Secondly the Auction House system rocked. I could finally sell items and drops when i was logged off.

    Those were my two favorite things about WOW. I was/am not impressed by combat mechanics but again to noobs this isn't/wasn't important. Quests were point and click and thanks to thottbot you just followed it from 0-70. I even used a guide that did quests in a way that no time was wasted travelling.

     

    I can sum WOW up in very few words. Its a PVE based gear centric game that anybody can play.  Its not PVP focused for those who desire serious PVP combat. You can play safely without any chance of being attacked by an enemy player if you so desire. EASY keeps popping into my mind. With the exception of high end raiding the game isn't much of a challenge at all and i think that is the biggest draw of the game. Yes this is probably the best *safe* game experience for Noobcomers to the MMO world of gaming. I probably enjoyed the game for about a year overall between release and TBC comebacks.

  • Swiftblade13Swiftblade13 Member Posts: 638

    Grymm
    MMO addict in recovery!
    EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
    Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!

  • Swiftblade13Swiftblade13 Member Posts: 638

    Grymm
    MMO addict in recovery!
    EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
    Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!

  • Swiftblade13Swiftblade13 Member Posts: 638

    amazing remake of Billy Jean, with a wow theme and video..

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=709049365&n=2&Mytoken=51369746-9D9A-692B-33E081DE9FE5CCBC17524685

    these videos really show off the animation quality in WoW.

    Grymm
    MMO addict in recovery!
    EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
    Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!

  • Swiftblade13Swiftblade13 Member Posts: 638

    WoW was polished at release.. at least by my definition.  Sure there were bugs... server stability problems etc.... but the quality in the way the world was put together, the character animations, and the fact that the existing content felt "finished" made it highly polished in my opinion

     

    The only other MMO that comes close is LOTRO, and LOTRO in my opinion offers less to do in the long run and doesnt feel as exciting and interactive.... I always feel detatched from my character in LOTRO.  Still I would vote LOTRO 2nd best.

     

     

    Grymm
    MMO addict in recovery!
    EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
    Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Member Posts: 1,880
    Originally posted by slask777


    Funny how people equate numbers with quality. Billions of flies like shit, so shit must be good yeah???
    WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW.
    Most people in WoW only think about their own advancement and enjoyment of the game, giving no thought at all to anyone else, except when they need them to further advance themselfes. Just look at how new players are treated. I was sickened for a while when I still played WoW with the way the newb was treated by the general community. The community in WoW is, to put it blunt, full of self-centered pricks who would like nothing more than to walk all over you to get whatever shiny carrot Blizzard dangle infront of them, My suggestion, and method to avoid them is to turn off public chat channels and only group with guildies and real life friends. Sadly, that put me in the same category as the rest of the community and in the long run, didn't solve anything.
    The economy is out of whack. When people charge 1000's of golds for mediocre items that only require some grind to get you know something is wrong. Saw a blue twink dagger just before I quit the game sell for over 10k gold Goldsellers and their buyers run rampant in WoW and it feels like Blizzard don't do squat to remove them from the game. Sure, you get the occasional massban but it been quite a while since last Blizzard had one of those.
    WoW's pvp is WoW's pvp. It's made for the general public aswell. It's a meaningless grind to get shiny's. Some people praise it's pvp, the battlegrounds and arena's, calling them hardcore and epic. This is bollocks as you can afk gain pvp epics, and lots of people do just that. You don't even have to pvp to get them as in the Arenas you start with 1500 points to spend on shinys and its so easy to exploit to get those epics it's laughable.
    The problem with WoW is that it's way too item-centric. Another problem with WoW, and that one bleeds into other games as well, is it's community. As a mmorpg player from the Anarchy Online days I feel like the general mmo public become more and more immature and disrespectful.
    Oh well, despite all that I managed to survive 3 years in WoW, but through those 3 years I had quite a few breaks from the game and I doubt I managed to clock over 1000 hours in the game. I installed XFire to clock my gaming hours a few years back and have since then spent a little over 600 hours in WoW.
    To end this, WoW is a good game but I feel the OP is too biased and paint a picture perfect of that particular game. Criticism is always good.

    nah the OP pretty much nailed it and told it like it is. People who argue some points he made simply don't like that particular aspect of the game.

  • TalRashaTalRasha Member UncommonPosts: 827
    Originally posted by Kordesh


     Your version of "truth" differs vastly from mine...you lost me at "most successful" and "high quality"



     

    Your "truth" doesn't mean much then. How can you claim that "most successful" isn't true for WoW?

    There is no other game in this genre that comes even close to having 2.5 million subscribers in Europe, or 3 million in US, or 5.5 million in Asia.

  • TalRashaTalRasha Member UncommonPosts: 827
    Originally posted by slask777


    WoW's pvp is WoW's pvp. It's made for the general public aswell. It's a meaningless grind to get shiny's. Some people praise it's pvp, the battlegrounds and arena's, calling them hardcore and epic. This is bollocks as you can afk gain pvp epics, and lots of people do just that. You don't even have to pvp to get them as in the Arenas you start with 1500 points to spend on shinys and its so easy to exploit to get those epics it's laughable.



     

    That is a lie. You start with 1500 rating, and 0 points to spend.

     

    I dislike those arenas myself, and the mechanic behind it to get items. But disliking it is still not enough reason to lie about it.

  • Zayne3145Zayne3145 Member Posts: 1,448
    Originally posted by Swiftblade13

    Part6:  Whats the downside?-
    The biggest downside of WoW really applies only to us MMO veterans from the old school games.  WoW lacks some features that us old timers really miss from other games... things like player housing, challenging crafting, harsh death penalties, and "meaningful" PvP (meaning where you can actually take over parts of the world or loot the other players items). 

    This is exactly why vets need to stay away from WoW. It's not for them.

    I think a lot of WoW hate stems from people who come into the game and want it to be something that it is quite clearly not. If there was a perfect MMO out there that catered for the hardcore, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be anywhere near as much WoW hate as the vets would be too busy enjoying themselves, rather than lamenting the state of the industry and blaming WoW for everything.

    image

  • SharajatSharajat Member Posts: 926
    Originally posted by Vistaakah






    Good summary but you can't say WOW was polished at release. They've had 4 plus years of people losing a day a week to play do to scheduled maintenance to clean it up. No other game in my MMO history has had so much downtime for scheduled maintenance.

    I just want to laugh here.  You claim to have played the game too.  Either this statement is a bald-faced lie, or your statement on ever having played the game is a bald-faced lie.

    In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

    -Thomas Jefferson

  • slask777slask777 Member Posts: 706
    Originally posted by TalRasha

    Originally posted by slask777


    WoW's pvp is WoW's pvp. It's made for the general public aswell. It's a meaningless grind to get shiny's. Some people praise it's pvp, the battlegrounds and arena's, calling them hardcore and epic. This is bollocks as you can afk gain pvp epics, and lots of people do just that. You don't even have to pvp to get them as in the Arenas you start with 1500 points to spend on shinys and its so easy to exploit to get those epics it's laughable.



     

    That is a lie. You start with 1500 rating, and 0 points to spend.

     

    I dislike those arenas myself, and the mechanic behind it to get items. But disliking it is still not enough reason to lie about it.



     

    Well, then they changed it since I last played WoW. The free arena points was where the term welfare epics originated.

    ---
    Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.

  • RedleicesterRedleicester Member Posts: 27

    slask777 said:

    "WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW."

    The point to note here is that the crowd vote by continuing to subscribe in the miilions, numbers that most other MMO's would ritually sacrifice staff for. I get what people mean when they say that WoW is populist and not aligned to the true heart of RPGing, but the fact is that Blizzard produce a gaming product that millions of people subscribe to, by what other measure do you value such a product? I'm no WoW fanboi, i hate what they've done to the little lore wow was true to, but I've played it since the opening week and it's changed a great deal from back then, but every time it does change it seems to get more popular, and when you look at it logically, what other way can you judge it.

    While i think that the responses in this particular thread are on the whole quite considered, whenever i see someone bashing WoW and the gamers who play it, there's always a greater or lesser tone of sneering at the gullible noobs who are fooled into coughing up their subscription every month to play something they seem to enjoy so much, without realising what greater horizons could be opened to them if they only got turned on to a "proper" rpg like <insert game here>. My point is that in all the time i've been playing wow and also many, many other MMOs, the amount of features developed in wow that have leaked into being the accepted norm for online gaming grow more and more each year, and yet people still look down on the game that holds the crown for being the most succesful marketed game in the computer world and has opened so many people to the idea of playing online games who might otherwise not have considered it.

  • slask777slask777 Member Posts: 706
    Originally posted by Redleicester


    slask777 said:
    "WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW."
    The point to note here is that the crowd vote by continuing to subscribe in the miilions, numbers that most other MMO's would ritually sacrifice staff for. I get what people mean when they say that WoW is populist and not aligned to the true heart of RPGing, but the fact is that Blizzard produce a gaming product that millions of people subscribe to, by what other measure do you value such a product? I'm no WoW fanboi, i hate what they've done to the little lore wow was true to, but I've played it since the opening week and it's changed a great deal from back then, but every time it does change it seems to get more popular, and when you look at it logically, what other way can you judge it.
    While i think that the responses in this particular thread are on the whole quite considered, whenever i see someone bashing WoW and the gamers who play it, there's always a greater or lesser tone of sneering at the gullible noobs who are fooled into coughing up their subscription every month to play something they seem to enjoy so much, without realising what greater horizons could be opened to them if they only got turned on to a "proper" rpg like <insert game here>. My point is that in all the time i've been playing wow and also many, many other MMOs, the amount of features developed in wow that have leaked into being the accepted norm for online gaming grow more and more each year, and yet people still look down on the game that holds the crown for being the most succesful marketed game in the computer world and has opened so many people to the idea of playing online games who might otherwise not have considered it.

    Personally I don't give a crap in how many people play a game. What really matters is if I like a game or not. The insane amount of players WoW got bring alot of shit to the scene though. Numbers don't say squat about a game other than it's a commercial success, like those boybands that sold in the millions while they where so damn popular a few years back.

    A game can go on with small numbers proven by, amongst other titles akin to it, Anarchy Online. While the numbers are slowly dwindling away the vets and hardcore fans keep that game alive and it's a quality mmo featuring quality gameplay seldom seen nowadays, but it's betrayed by it's aging graphic engine. They are working on updating it though, but it take time.

    ---
    Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.

  • RedleicesterRedleicester Member Posts: 27
    Originally posted by slask777

    Originally posted by Redleicester


    slask777 said:
    "WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW."
    The point to note here is that the crowd vote by continuing to subscribe in the miilions, numbers that most other MMO's would ritually sacrifice staff for. I get what people mean when they say that WoW is populist and not aligned to the true heart of RPGing, but the fact is that Blizzard produce a gaming product that millions of people subscribe to, by what other measure do you value such a product? I'm no WoW fanboi, i hate what they've done to the little lore wow was true to, but I've played it since the opening week and it's changed a great deal from back then, but every time it does change it seems to get more popular, and when you look at it logically, what other way can you judge it.
    While i think that the responses in this particular thread are on the whole quite considered, whenever i see someone bashing WoW and the gamers who play it, there's always a greater or lesser tone of sneering at the gullible noobs who are fooled into coughing up their subscription every month to play something they seem to enjoy so much, without realising what greater horizons could be opened to them if they only got turned on to a "proper" rpg like <insert game here>. My point is that in all the time i've been playing wow and also many, many other MMOs, the amount of features developed in wow that have leaked into being the accepted norm for online gaming grow more and more each year, and yet people still look down on the game that holds the crown for being the most succesful marketed game in the computer world and has opened so many people to the idea of playing online games who might otherwise not have considered it.

    Personally I don't give a crap in how many people play a game. What really matters is if I like a game or not. The insane amount of players WoW got bring alot of shit to the scene though. Numbers don't say squat about a game other than it's a commercial success.



     

    I agree entirely with you on a personal level, i measure a game by whether i like it or not. I won't play a game just because loads of other people do, and i suspect that virtually no-one in the world does or would.

    My use of your quote was to highlight your point  "Funny how people equate numbers with quality." If millions of people play it, is it the best quality game around? Well yes, it must be. Maybe not the best graphics, or the most innovative play, or the funniest, or weirdest or whatever measure you may be placing against it, but more people playing it than any other online game in the world means it must be the best at whatever it is that draws people to play it. For the success of a game there is no other measure than the number of people who play it, whether we're talking about Monopoly or Snap or WoW.

  • slask777slask777 Member Posts: 706
    Originally posted by Redleicester

    Originally posted by slask777

    Originally posted by Redleicester


    slask777 said:
    "WoW is a quality product, but it's designed to please the crowd. If you're looking for a niche game with a close-knit community you wont find it in WoW."
    The point to note here is that the crowd vote by continuing to subscribe in the miilions, numbers that most other MMO's would ritually sacrifice staff for. I get what people mean when they say that WoW is populist and not aligned to the true heart of RPGing, but the fact is that Blizzard produce a gaming product that millions of people subscribe to, by what other measure do you value such a product? I'm no WoW fanboi, i hate what they've done to the little lore wow was true to, but I've played it since the opening week and it's changed a great deal from back then, but every time it does change it seems to get more popular, and when you look at it logically, what other way can you judge it.
    While i think that the responses in this particular thread are on the whole quite considered, whenever i see someone bashing WoW and the gamers who play it, there's always a greater or lesser tone of sneering at the gullible noobs who are fooled into coughing up their subscription every month to play something they seem to enjoy so much, without realising what greater horizons could be opened to them if they only got turned on to a "proper" rpg like <insert game here>. My point is that in all the time i've been playing wow and also many, many other MMOs, the amount of features developed in wow that have leaked into being the accepted norm for online gaming grow more and more each year, and yet people still look down on the game that holds the crown for being the most succesful marketed game in the computer world and has opened so many people to the idea of playing online games who might otherwise not have considered it.

    Personally I don't give a crap in how many people play a game. What really matters is if I like a game or not. The insane amount of players WoW got bring alot of shit to the scene though. Numbers don't say squat about a game other than it's a commercial success.



     

    I agree entirely with you on a personal level, i measure a game by whether i like it or not. I won't play a game just because loads of other people do, and i suspect that virtually no-one in the world does or would.

    My use of your quote was to highlight your point  "Funny how people equate numbers with quality." If millions of people play it, is it the best quality game around? Well yes, it must be. Maybe not the best graphics, or the most innovative play, or the funniest, or weirdest or whatever measure you may be placing against it, but more people playing it than any other online game in the world means it must be the best at whatever it is that draws people to play it. For the success of a game there is no other measure than the number of people who play it, whether we're talking about Monopoly or Snap or WoW.

     

    Oh yes they would. Just look at fashion for proof of that

    ---
    Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564
    Originally posted by Volkmar


    I strongly recommend the /sticky stick to be used on this thread.
    To the, as he define himself, naysayer.
    Gold seller: and < insert your favorite game here> doesn't?? EVERY MMO has gold sellers! face it! it is not a WoW problem, it is a global problem! yes, a fraction of those 11 mils account are gold sellers. As a fraction of those XXXX accounts for <insert your game here> are as well. The only thing you could argue for is that the % would be higher in WoW, but there is no proof or fact to that.'
    That's either a complete strawman argument, or you entirely missed his point. He's not talking about whether or not any other MMO has goldfarmers.


    What he's saying is that it's not entirely honest to say that 11 million players are satisfied with the graphics because of those 11 million, a considerable number are likely gold farmers, whom aren't interested in how good or bad the graphics are as it has no relevance to why they're in the game.


    And as for other MMOs having gold-farmers... this is true; and his argument would be valid in any of those others as well.
    Your other comments basically boils down to "I am sad WoW is this kind of game and I would like it to do something completely different".
    Fine you can be sad, but WoW is this kind of game and it follows this kind of game rules. Guess what? Everquest raised the level cap several time, EQ2 did as well. LOTRO has just now raised the level cap as well, so what is exactly your point? theme park like games rise the level cap? geez, I did not know that!
    It's amazing to me that even with all the positive things he says about the game, there are still people who are going to nit-pick at anything said that is in any way critical of it. Heaven forbid anyone have a negative opinion of their game.


    Again, you're pointing to what other games do to "justify" what Blizzard does with WoW. It's another strawman argument.


    Once again, his point would stand with any of those other MMOs you listed. 


    As an aside, it has been noted, by experienced folks in the game development industry, that raising the level cap as a way to provide more content is rather lazy.
    Rather than providing more interesting stuff to do with the levels already provided, Blizzard - and yes, other companies too - hand the players 10 more levels of xp and gear grinding... along with some new raid instances to do repeatedly... just like they did with the last expansion and will likely do with the next.
    I certainly remember plenty of complaints from players of having to do all that with TBC. Still, Blizzard turned around and pretty much did the same thing with WoTLK... .'cause they know the players are going to play it no matter what they do.


    And, by the by, it is possible to provide more content without raising the level cap. FFXI has four expansions in over 6 years of service. In that time, SE raised the level cap once, and that was with the first expansion, which came out back in 2003. Ever since then, they've found ways to incorporate new content into the 75 levels the game already has.


    So the argument against simply adding more levels to grind is one with merit.
    Yes, we could have a philosophical discussion on the value of levels and what not.... but this is not the thread for that, WoW is a level based game and nothing will change that. period. for the good and the bad.
    Okay... I don't think anyone's disagreeing that it's a level-based game. He was merely giving his own point-of-view on it... which seems to have been quite enough to get under your skin as you have notably "taken him to task" over it... right up to the point where you declare that this isn't the thread to do so.
     

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • AntaranAntaran Member Posts: 579

    Personally i hate World of Warcraft, i'm only posting in this thread as the title caught my eye and it is a damned good review of the game for potential new players to it...  well wrote out, well organised and it does state the bad with the good which is often forgotten about by other people.

    Well done OP.

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