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So everybody is a Captain, and Emmert is running the show?

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  • HagonbokHagonbok Member Posts: 365

    Well that sure was a lot of text to make a completely invalid point. Here I'll give a bunch too, except I'll keep it valid and based on truths.

    There's going to be plenty for the fleets to do to work together and build relationships. Plenty. You know that. Or if you didn't , again, go read up on the game. You can come back and edit out all that useless stuff and just say "Ok, I was wrong about the game, never mind."

     

    What is there about not wanting to be forced to serve on someone else's ship that has anything to do with not wanting to put time and effort into the game? There is nothing. Players are still going to have to put in the time and effort . In fact with everyone having their own ships, for people to really succeed beyond a more casual point they're going to have to put in more time and effort than if they were just a member of a crew. 

     

    Each ship players get as they progress through the game is going to need outfitting with chosen tech, crew, weaponry, etc.  It's like some of you are thinking that we're going to log into the game for the first time and be captaining a Galaxy or Sovereign class ship.   Players are going to progress through various classes and will have to accomplish what needs to be done to progress, and with every new ship comes new outfittings and such. Fleets are going to have to work together too build the highest classes of ships, and not long after release will have to work together to build their starbases.

     

    Then there's the whole aspect of what's going on in the Neutral Zone to consider. Players, fleets and otherwise, are going to have to work together putting in the time and effort doing competitive PvE and PvP to gain influence, and defend that influence, over planets and strategic locations. Then again, you're probably not even fathoming the implications of this being a faction based game and how that's going to bring players together anyway.

     

    Think about things for a minute will ya? Instead of blindly stumbling and ranting because you want to Star Trek sim the same way you do in text.  You're holding fast to a silly concept that simply wouldn't work  for 99% of the people that would want to play this game. Go ahead and insult that 99% if you want, but just keep in mind how it makes you look ranting for them to force everyone to play the way 1% wants to play, and how easily it is to pass you off as just some loon when you do it.

     

    Nice try with twisting the meaning of what I said too by the way, but sorry, anyone can see "what you did there". Getting in a group to go do some content is totally different from getting forced to get accepted into a crew/fleet to experience the game.  Leaving a group is totally different from leaving a crew/fleet too.

     

    If you don't like that these companies aren't forcing others to play with you, but instead are letting players choose whom they associate with, then too fricken bad for you. I'd say that if it's an issue for you, then clearly you've had problems with people not wanting to play with you in the past, and that's not the developers fault. 

     

    Maybe look at yourself and try and figure out why so many people are avoiding you.

  • whpshwhpsh Member Posts: 199

    I guess I'll just start at the top ...

    "...based on truths"

    Please cite for me the survey conducted using a statistically accurate representation of the STO playerbase that includes the question: "Do you want to play my way?" I searched for one, but didn't find it. I did, however, spend a few minutes counting the "for" PC crew posts on the official site. Since, according to you, I only represent 1% of the population, it should be statistically impossible for me to find more than 29.89 posts 'for' PC Crews out of the 2989 total posts (for a total of 299 pages! ... thats 20 more pages of comments than the entire 'general discussion' section). I, in fact, found those 30 'yes' posts within the first 75 posts. That's a whopping 40% .. a far cry from the 1% you indicate.

    "wanting to be forced to serve on a ship"

    We've all clearly stated time and time again that you wouldn't be forced to serve on a ship, that it would just be an option. I'll use you twice here, if you don't mind: "your holding fast to a silly concept" "Maybe you should look at yourself"

    Your second, third and fourth paragraphs clearly support my whole arguement.

    You want a game where everyone grinds through levels and is completely insignificant until the end game ... that's WoW in Space ...

    You want to force people to be a Captain and that's the only thing they can be.

    We'd rather have the option to be a Captain or a Crewman, not be forced one way or the other.

    And I've got to ask the obvious question: "Getting in a group to go do some content is totally different from getting forced to get accepted into a crew/fleet to experience the game. Leaving a group is totally different from leaving a crew/fleet too"

    ... how, exactly, is deciding to get off your own ship and  getting on someone elses, to do some content, completely different than flying next to someone elses ship to do some content?

    ... how, exactly, is leaving a fleet made up of ships and going your own way in your own ship any different than leaving a Ship's crew and going your own way in your own ship.?

    If it's different in the fact that your way you have to grind for months or years before you are deemed 'worthy' enough to join a fleet that is doing something interesting. I'll totally agree with you .... but I've played that game before ... lot's of times ... EVE, WoW, EQ, EQII, hmm ... all of them I guess.

    If you mean it's completely different because you can still use mispelled words and brag to all your buddies that you just killed some new girl who was just trying to look at the  nebula, I'd have to agree with you again. Your way does keep all the 'uncool' people out of your Neutral Zone.

    My way includes every one in whichever aspect of the game they choose to belong, regardless if they are social or combative, from the very moment they log in to the very second they leave. They can travel, socialize and contribute at the very edges of space ... all within the protection of a much larger ship than they might've ever had the time (or desire) to get on their own.

    Your way segregates, creates elitism, and promotes an incessant combat grind by everyone, regardless of whether they want to fight or not.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061

    And if you're an engineer and you can't find any ships that need an engineer, what then? Do you just stand around spamming "engineer in need of work" which is so not Star Trek? You're wasting your time running around trying to find people just so you can enjoy the game and not everybody has hours to spare. Been there and done that on the worst MMO ever made, no thanks.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Hagonbok

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Hagonbok


    I'd say that making sure that every players has equal opportunity to have fun and participate fully is a very smart move. Condemning newer players to have to be under the thumb of other players, and having their entire game experience dictated by what another player chooses to do, is what's "stupid", not to mention suicide for the game.

    Not only is that the lamest thing I ever heard, its also a sure fire plan for making a game that fails. Go play tic-tac-toe if thats what you want.  You want a game that caters to the most casual, least dedicated player?

    What does not making new players have to play the game under the control of some other player have to do with catering to casual ,least dedicated players? I'll answer that for you. Absolutely nothing is what.

    Player crew in a mmo has got to be THE most foolish thing I ever heard of. As a feature in a few of the episodic missions maybe, but as a general game play feature it's just too silly a concept for a gaming company to take seriously. The only people that think it is viable are those that have no idea about these games. Simple as that.

    This is what makes you seem so unreasonable.  I'm not saying it should be forced multiplayer crews and screw you. I've never said it should me one way and thats it. I'm saying offer players the option. I've spelled it out a couple of times already. Ships above a certain class size require a crew. Crew can be either npc's or players. Its real simple.  You're the one who is saying that it should be your way and screw everyone else. 

  • HagonbokHagonbok Member Posts: 365

    Some of you can't seem to pull your heads out of the clouds long enough to think about the issue objectively.

     

    Player crews are a silly idea as a general feature.

     

    It's asking the developers to take all the time and effort  to not only develop game play that would be exciting and interesting for each of the various bridge stations (probably a near impossible  task), but also to balance the entire game to accommodate them. Both in PvE and PvP. Something that in the end they just wouldn't be able to do.  The only way it could be done is to make the PC ships overpowered. Thus FORCING fleets to use them, thus FORCING most players to man them.

     

    You're talking about a pie in the sky feature. You're wanting them to just toss a simming feature into one of the core elements of an action oriented mmo, and expecting the general player to accept being FORCED into experiencing most of the game the way that a tiny proportion want them to. 

     

     

  • spdkillaspdkilla Member Posts: 111
    Originally posted by Hagonbok


    Some of you can't seem to pull your heads out of the clouds long enough to think about the issue objectively.
     
    Player crews are a silly idea as a general feature.
     
    It's asking the developers to take all the time and effort  to not only develop game play that would be exciting and interesting for each of the various bridge stations (probably a near impossible  task), but also to balance the entire game to accommodate them. Both in PvE and PvP. Something that in the end they just wouldn't be able to do.  The only way it could be done is to make the PC ships overpowered. Thus FORCING fleets to use them, thus FORCING most players to man them.
     
    You're talking about a pie in the sky feature. You're wanting them to just toss a simming feature into one of the core elements of an action oriented mmo, and expecting the general player to accept being FORCED into experiencing most of the game the way that a tiny proportion want them to. 
     
     

     

          * Wall'O Text  * ...... please read all the text before commenting ...... tyvm

     

    - I must admit i agree with most of your post the only thing I disagree with is the ability for player crews to be done .  Your post seems to imply that they can't be done maybe i didn't understand it correctly..(unless you mean its not going to be done in which case i agree).  I  think they CAN be done . ... I also think it would push game development back at least a year or 2 and would seriously blow the budget sky high.

    - The way I see it they could do it yes, but why shoot yourself in the foot with a nail gun before running in a marathon? Could you still win?  Maybe but why make things harder than they have to be?

    - IMO it would be awesome for the trekkie purists. If it was optional most players would see it as a cool sounding gimick that would fade within the 1st month or 2. I think it  would soon become a seldom used feature that would be seen as a huge mistake to all but those  trekkie purists.

    - i don't see cryptic or anyone else taking that kind of risk on a launch feature that IMO would be a gimicky seldom used feature by most of the mmo's players and only really used by the smaller hardcore trekkie fans.  The way I see it you want a game that appeals to the trek fans, sci-fi fans , space mmo fans , space game fans , and people who think the MMO sounds cool and they might want to try it.

    -From the companies point of view, I would think you want to keep the 1st three groups as you core gammers.  Make all 3 happy and you will do well. I think those wanting Player crews and not players having thier own ships are only seeing the game as the that 1st group they seem to think the others don't matter... I think thats why some people have been using the term "Elitest". They seem to want a Sim where people sit around chatting for hours on end (mini- space soap operas for 500 Alex) while waiting for something to happen or playing keep the little ball in the green area on the display (MMMini-GameORPG?) .  Fun for purists but boring as hell for the regular guy who is NOT likely to resub or buy the game in the first place if there is a trial... 

    - Then again maybe i am WRONG wouldn't be the first or the last time.  Maybe most mmo players want to hang out and chat and play mini-games for months and years on end to be the best engineer in STO by mini-games in an engineering interface .. "My engines operate at 116.13247% efficency lol take that you nubs"....... for hardcore trekkie purists yeah for 90%+ of the gamers in STO sorry i don't see it....

    - Believe me cryptic would love to have 90% + of their game made up of people from outside that 1st group that would hopefully mean they are attracting main stream mmo and new mmo players as well as trekkies not to put down trekkies but you want to reach as large an audience as possible and still keep your core players (SOE failed at this part) as long as you core players are in a large enough audience. IMO trekkie purists are not large enough an audience to just try to appeal to them only. I think thats what the other posters are trying to say.  Cryptic knows this is already a niche market why try to further reduce its market or increase its delay or development cost?

    - I have said my 2 cents worth i only hope i can't find a nickel....

       /carry on

  • Die_ScreamDie_Scream Member Posts: 1,785

    I think that a guild (whatever it's called in STO) should be able to build large galaxy class type ships, where a guildie could man the stations, and the leader could captain, for regular play though, what they are doing is probably the only feasable idea.

    If your guild could craft a ship though, different class from the usual, it would be incredibly exciting to have a ship interior, and work as a crew in some PvP.

    That would be amazing.

  • isolorisolor Member Posts: 189
    Originally posted by spdkilla

    Originally posted by Hagonbok


    Some of you can't seem to pull your heads out of the clouds long enough to think about the issue objectively.
     
    Player crews are a silly idea as a general feature.
     
    It's asking the developers to take all the time and effort  to not only develop game play that would be exciting and interesting for each of the various bridge stations (probably a near impossible  task), but also to balance the entire game to accommodate them. Both in PvE and PvP. Something that in the end they just wouldn't be able to do.  The only way it could be done is to make the PC ships overpowered. Thus FORCING fleets to use them, thus FORCING most players to man them.
     
    You're talking about a pie in the sky feature. You're wanting them to just toss a simming feature into one of the core elements of an action oriented mmo, and expecting the general player to accept being FORCED into experiencing most of the game the way that a tiny proportion want them to. 
     
     

     

          * Wall'O Text  * ...... please read all the text before commenting ...... tyvm

     

    - I must admit i agree with most of your post the only thing I disagree with is the ability for player crews to be done .  Your post seems to imply that they can't be done maybe i didn't understand it correctly..(unless you mean its not going to be done in which case i agree).  I  think they CAN be done . ... I also think it would push game development back at least a year or 2 and would seriously blow the budget sky high.

    - The way I see it they could do it yes, but why shoot yourself in the foot with a nail gun before running in a marathon? Could you still win?  Maybe but why make things harder than they have to be?

    - IMO it would be awesome for the trekkie purists. If it was optional most players would see it as a cool sounding gimick that would fade within the 1st month or 2. I think it  would soon become a seldom used feature that would be seen as a huge mistake to all but those  trekkie purists.

    - i don't see cryptic or anyone else taking that kind of risk on a launch feature that IMO would be a gimicky seldom used feature by most of the mmo's players and only really used by the smaller hardcore trekkie fans.  The way I see it you want a game that appeals to the trek fans, sci-fi fans , space mmo fans , space game fans , and people who think the MMO sounds cool and they might want to try it.

    -From the companies point of view, I would think you want to keep the 1st three groups as you core gammers.  Make all 3 happy and you will do well. I think those wanting Player crews and not players having thier own ships are only seeing the game as the that 1st group they seem to think the others don't matter... I think thats why some people have been using the term "Elitest". They seem to want a Sim where people sit around chatting for hours on end (mini- space soap operas for 500 Alex) while waiting for something to happen or playing keep the little ball in the green area on the display (MMMini-GameORPG?) .  Fun for purists but boring as hell for the regular guy who is NOT likely to resub or buy the game in the first place if there is a trial... 

    - Then again maybe i am WRONG wouldn't be the first or the last time.  Maybe most mmo players want to hang out and chat and play mini-games for months and years on end to be the best engineer in STO by mini-games in an engineering interface .. "My engines operate at 116.13247% efficency lol take that you nubs"....... for hardcore trekkie purists yeah for 90%+ of the gamers in STO sorry i don't see it....

    - Believe me cryptic would love to have 90% + of their game made up of people from outside that 1st group that would hopefully mean they are attracting main stream mmo and new mmo players as well as trekkies not to put down trekkies but you want to reach as large an audience as possible and still keep your core players (SOE failed at this part) as long as you core players are in a large enough audience. IMO trekkie purists are not large enough an audience to just try to appeal to them only. I think thats what the other posters are trying to say.  Cryptic knows this is already a niche market why try to further reduce its market or increase its delay or development cost?

    - I have said my 2 cents worth i only hope i can't find a nickel....

       /carry on

    I highly agree with you.

     

  • grimbojgrimboj Member Posts: 2,102

    Its been time proven that single pilot star trek games are hurrendously shallow, noticed how star trek suddenly swapped to FPS games? Because no one wanted single pilot games.

    I don't understand what makes them think that a single pilot game is going to be a positive thing.

    There is no good answer to:

    How am I suppose to fire, pilot, plot a warp course, redirect power for and replace the dilithium crystals on a galaxy class by myself?

     

    --
    Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL

  • warrior41warrior41 Member Posts: 65
    Originally posted by grimboj


    Its been time proven that single pilot star trek games are hurrendously shallow, noticed how star trek suddenly swapped to FPS games? Because no one wanted single pilot games.
    I don't understand what makes them think that a single pilot game is going to be a positive thing.
    There is no good answer to:
    How am I suppose to fire, pilot, plot a warp course, redirect power for and replace the dilithium crystals on a galaxy class by myself?

     

     There will never game a Star Trek game that does those things you mention. Unless one day a developer decides to make a Star Trek simulator, which I dont see ever being economcially feasible. 

     In STO all those things, firing, piloting, plotting a warp course, redirecting power and doing engineering work, in addition to medical needs and diplomacy, all can easily and entertainingly done by a sINGLE player. Having several player crew do those things together would result in a very slow and tedious and difficult and frustrating game that would in reality only be enjoyed by a minority dedicated base. 

     Now, that's not to say I don't think player crews and ship interiors are important nor should be an option. They are and should be there, but not as the basis of gameplay. 

    Cryptc made an inevitable decision which is to make STO a solo game at heart, in terms of completing missions and stuff like that. 

    But I support adding in player crews as an option, and ship interiors for free-roaming and social purposes and for fun too. 

    As soon as Cryptic makes it official they are putting in ship interiors in an expansion I support them. 

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