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Tired of "cult" vs "troll" threads

AntaranAntaran Member Posts: 579

Why is it that people are either a member of a Darkfall Cult or being Trolls?

The answer to this is quite simple really, everyone has their own tastes but instead of simply having their opinions mentioned and keeping a civil tongue they decide to flame each other and name call..

There is one simple FACT that can't be denied by ANYONE!!!!  and that is that NO-ONE here has played the game and those that say they have are liars, if not liars then they're breaking the NDA (or whatever it's called) by simply stating they have played it.

There is no Cult, there are people who are seriously looking forward to the game.

There has been some Constructive criticism but this is very rare.

There are Trolls, i view this term to mean people who have zero interest in the game at all yet post for the sake of it.

Then there are people such as i, those that follow the game and are looking forward to it but are not willing to say outright that it's the best thing sinse sliced bread.

I'm looking forward to the game, i'm HOPING it pulls off the features they say it will, Does this make me a Cult member in some peoples eyes? YES according to the arguments the trolls have tried to put forth.

it should no longer be a question of are you a troll or cult member, the question people need to ask THEMSELVES is are they going to try the game or not.

If you are wanting to try the game, good on you.

If your not interested in it and don't plan on trying it out then why the hell do you bother posting about it? don't you have lives?

With regards to the threads about the graphics, graphics are all in the eye of the individual, some say they're good, other say they're rotten to the core and some say they're acceptable. Personally i think they're above average and what should be expected from an MMO these days. Poor to below average graphics (WoW in my eyes) is good because it runs on many systems, this in turn means more subscriptions and more income. Ultra Graphics like AoC limit the number of subscribers from the start due to the requirements of an ultra system. Average graphics such as LotRo should be the acceptable standards these days, granted they aint perfect and never will be but they run on the majority of systems and leave much more room for content to be developed, as in my eyes (and many other peoples eyes) Content and Gameplay will always rule over quality of Graphics. You want proof of this? WoW have below average graphics yet has many subscribers, this tells me the gameplay and content must appeal to many people. AoC has ultra Graphics yet minimal gameplay/Content, fewer subscribers than the average MMO (PTP or FTP)

Now, without going further into causing a flame thread as the forum alone causes that, i'll say one last thing...  I hate how MMO's have turned out and become pansies to the simple crowd, I hate constant PvP in games, for PvP i play FPS games for free, will i be buying Darkfall at release? hell no!!!  so why do i care so much about the game to even bother posting you may ask? The answer is a simple one, it's proposed features will hopefully return the RPG element back to MMO's but i refuse to buy a game outright just because i'm looking forward to it, with MMO's i do the trials which are usually done about 6 months or so after release, got burned with Vanguard and AoC and refuse to pay out for the same to happen to me again.

So as stated above, it's not a question of being a part of a Cult or being  a Troll, it's a question of will YOU as an INDIVIDUAL be playing the game?

Comments

  • DrukstylzDrukstylz Member Posts: 189

    Trolls know the least about the games they criticize. They are more interested in getting attention, and amusing themselves by pissing of others.

    There are several types of Trolls. The ignorant troll who just can't be bothered to change his opinion. The scared troll, who thinks a game will overshadow the one he is currently interested in. Then you have the demented troll who just enjoys arguing for the the sake of it.

    As for fanbois, they are just as bad. Regardless of your opinions on trolls or fanbois, both parties will be at loggerheads for all eternity. So its probably better just to avoid the issue completely.

  • MyPreciousssMyPreciousss Member Posts: 427
    Originally posted by Antaran


    Average graphics such as LotRo should be the acceptable standards these days, granted they aint perfect and never will be but they run on the majority of systems and leave much more room for content to be developed

     

    Not sure what you mean by "average" but if you have every options maxxed up (DX9 and DX10, yeah cuz they DO have DX10 not like the game you mentioned before) it's frigging amazing, breathtaking and beautiful, so I'd love to have everything that "average" in my games.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/595ae9d6-0b97-405c-b126-10616488744a

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495

    You missed one.

    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?

    image

  • xzyaxxzyax Member Posts: 2,459
    Originally posted by zymurgeist


    If you're tired of it why start another one? It's just bored people filling time until release.



     

    Yup... going to agree with zymurgeist on this one.

     

    The best thing DarkFall can do to quell the Troll side it to release the game in a state in which they have maintained for quite some time that it is in... Feature complete and stable.

  • xzyaxxzyax Member Posts: 2,459
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    You missed one.
    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?



     

    Elitists? 

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf Member Posts: 2,269

    Actually one of the main reasons for this imo is that every time I've replied to a thread where there was an decent debate with actual arguements for and against the facets and mechanics of the game, it gets deleted.

    If you even attempt to discuss the issues involved with this game and the technical boundaries that Ave claim they have managed to overcome, a million fanbois report you for trolling on issues you can't have a diffinitive answer on. Or you get an equal number of rabid haters claiming you have no clue, it's very strange how when any technical question of coding or networking comes up all of a sudden everyone on mmorpg.com is a software developer with eons of experience.

    So if you're looking for a serious discussion on this game you really aren't in the right place tbh.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • summitussummitus Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    You missed one.
    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?



     

    I believe the type of Troll you are looking for is the "Intellectual Troll " .... a very rare breed indeed ........ hang on if your very quiet and patient you can spot them .... lurking deep and hidden in most thread undergrowth

  • MST3K84MST3K84 Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by xzyax

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    You missed one.
    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?



     

    Elitists? 



     

    I was going to say Forumfallers, but ya that works too,

  • BlodplsBlodpls Member Posts: 1,454
    Originally posted by Random_mage
    If you have BASIC knowledge about advertising and marketing and point out that aventurine lacks these.. you are a troll.

     

    Advertising and marketing does not produce games though, I don't see the connection between the two.

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    You are right..

    They don't produce games..

    But, games do cost money to maintain.. and develop.  The more subscribers you have, the more money the developers have to make the game you are playing better.  It's sort of a cause and affect.. Money goes into games, games get better, more people play them.  The game gets better hardware.. making your overall gaming experience, better... ya dig?

    Currently playing Real Life..

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by Random_mage


    You are right..
    They don't produce games..
    But, games do cost money to maintain.. and develop.  The more subscribers you have, the more money the developers have to make the game you are playing better.  It's sort of a cause and affect.. Money goes into games, games get better, more people play them.  The game gets better hardware.. making your overall gaming experience, better... ya dig?

     

    Problem many had with AoC is they pumped a lot of money into marketing and advertising that should have been put in to development. While it was good for the company because they ended up with a ton of people purchasing CE's pre-orders and boxs in general it was bad for the gamers.

    What Aventurine is doing seems to be a lot better for the gamers. Sure they will miss out on the quick buck other MMO's get from the standard scams but hey doesn't impact me negatively and actualy gives them a bit of credibility the other MMO's lack in my eyes.

    I mean even the Trailer was simply in game footage not the standard Cinematic garbage.

    By the way it is my belief that the Troll cult thing also happens when someone randomly starts with the Cult comments in threads for no reason in which they are generaly called a troll in return. An example would be this fellow........

    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Darkfall is special because..

     

    It's the only game to spawn it's own religion! which was posted in this thread...................

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213409/page/4

    <---- You claim you only do it because you get provoked so please show me the provocation in that thread that compelled you to start with the comments again.

     

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by Random_mage


    Not denying anything.
    Although you need to look up the word
    SATIRE
    Until then.. there will be no point in me replying to your posts..

     

    How about you look up "Flame" instead since that is what I asked about. 

    However, I have to say, this is a horrible attempt at flame. Better luck next time!

    I mean you do see I made no comment about your satire comment right?  If you want me to address your "Satire" fine I will, seems like it was a lame attempt to save face after making a blunder you assumed no one would catch to me.

     

  • BlodplsBlodpls Member Posts: 1,454
    Originally posted by Random_mage


    You are right..
    They don't produce games..
    But, games do cost money to maintain.. and develop.  The more subscribers you have, the more money the developers have to make the game you are playing better.  It's sort of a cause and affect.. Money goes into games, games get better, more people play them.  The game gets better hardware.. making your overall gaming experience, better... ya dig?

     

    Marketing is also prohibitively expensive though, if you only have 10m Euro's to spend on creating a product you have to make choices.

    Do you spend it on the game or do you spend it on advertising?  No form of marketing is free or cheap.  Even doing interviews costs money. 

    The world of gaming media works on the principle of the "Junket", an expenses paid event organised by the publisher at which entertainment, trail bike riding or driving a tank ect, is provided and the opportunity to interview to devs is made.  If your not giving a Junket then FO we will send our reporters to somebody that are is the prevailing attitude.

    Who in their right mind would send their reporters to Athens and have to pay for it when EA's doing a free event, and god forbid that EA decides to stop doing them cause one of their competitors isn't footing the bill.

    Sadly that is how it works.

     

  • sbantingsbanting Member Posts: 238

    Lol for the guy that has obviously no idea what Marketing does, please go back to school and do business studies, without marketing you won't know the game exists, if people don't know the game is out there, they won't play it. Darkfall has only got publicity via word of mouth, which is the most effective way of marketing but very slow and limited, but most likely to get results. If this game is released in the next, how ever many days that its meant to be coming out, less than 60 according to some, then you really need a marketing plan and a campaign to really get more than the avid fan to know the game exists, defiantly if you are going to put the game on the shelves. Lets put it this way, how many games have you bought, mmorpgs in particular, straight off the shelf with only the box to guide you? I could hazard a guess and put that to about 1 maybe 2.

    So without marketing you won't have many players, and without a lot of subs you won't have a game, a game that took a long time to build will have a lot of debt, 7 years worth of a whole Dev's team time is going to cost, and they will need enough subs after launch to be able to pay for the debt and for the servers.

     

    Back to the whole troll and cult thing tho, I hate it too, I'm probably known as a troll of Darkfall, all because I don't believe it could work, I believe the ship has sailed about 2 years ago for this game to work. I hate the whole troll and cult thing, it bugs me as its an opinion not a sentence, freedom of speech is killed in Darkfall forums, everyone has a label and everyone has to be on a side lmao.

    image

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by Blodpls

    Originally posted by Random_mage


    You are right..
    They don't produce games..
    But, games do cost money to maintain.. and develop.  The more subscribers you have, the more money the developers have to make the game you are playing better.  It's sort of a cause and affect.. Money goes into games, games get better, more people play them.  The game gets better hardware.. making your overall gaming experience, better... ya dig?

     

    Marketing is also prohibitively expensive though, if you only have 10m Euro's to spend on creating a product you have to make choices.

    Do you spend it on the game or do you spend it on advertising?  No form of marketing is free or cheap.  Even doing interviews costs money. 

    The world of gaming media works on the principle of the "Junket", an expenses paid event organised by the publisher at which entertainment, trail bike riding or driving a tank ect, is provided and the opportunity to interview to devs is made.  If your not giving a Junket then FO we will send our reporters to somebody that are is the prevailing attitude.

    Who in their right would send their reporters to Athens and have to pay for it when EA's doing a free event, and god forbid that EA decides to stop doing them cause one of their competitors isn't footing the bill.

    Sadly that is how it works.

     

     

    I get the basic concepts of marketing costing money... However.. game magazines, as well as websites, don't get money from game companies paying them.. they get the money for the advertising that's generated by whatever they are spotlighting.  A game with this mass appeal that darkfall 'supposedly' has would, in affect, generate millions of hits (repeat visitors) to any sight marketing the game.  Thus, it does cost money to advertise, but having spots or articles in magazines.. which is why a lot of magazines will pay for exclusives.. thus generating more revenue for the company.

    Currently playing Real Life..

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by sbanting


    Lol for the guy that has obviously no idea what Marketing does, please go back to school and do business studies, without marketing you won't know the game exists, if people don't know the game is out there, they won't play it. Darkfall has only got publicity via word of mouth, which is the most effective way of marketing but very slow and limited, but most likely to get results. If this game is released in the next, how ever many days that its meant to be coming out, less than 60 according to some, then you really need a marketing plan and a campaign to really get more than the avid fan to know the game exists, defiantly if you are going to put the game on the shelves. Lets put it this way, how many games have you bought, mmorpgs in particular, straight off the shelf with only the box to guide you? I could hazard a guess and put that to about 1 maybe 2.
    So without marketing you won't have many players, and without a lot of subs you won't have a game, a game that took a long time to build will have a lot of debt, 7 years worth of a whole Dev's team time is going to cost, and they will need enough subs after launch to be able to pay for the debt and for the servers.

     
    Back to the whole troll and cult thing tho, I hate it too, I'm probably known as a troll of Darkfall, all because I don't believe it could work, I believe the ship has sailed about 2 years ago for this game to work. I hate the whole troll and cult thing, it bugs me as its an opinion not a sentence, freedom of speech is killed in Darkfall forums, everyone has a label and everyone has to be on a side lmao.

     

    The thing is they actualy have advertisements and such. There just focused on the Euro side of things for now because they don't even have a publisher in the US yet but they do over there lol.

    Of course there not sinking in a ton of money into marketing the game though, there just giving basic info out and then letting the game speak for itself. 200k made it to the official forums and registerd so far from this marketing strategy and they haven't even launched yet so it can't be all that bad.

    However they do not need to divert a god awful amount of funds into marketing and advertising as many AAA MMO's do for the simple fact it is a waste. DarkFall isn't WoW and isn't going to cater to non MMORPG players, its more for established MMORPG'rs.

    IMO they've done the marketing and advertising perfectly so far.

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    Its interesting you say cult as anything Tasos says is interpreted by the fanboys as the "word of God". He gives us very broad non-specific bread crumb updates that be seen by both fanboys and sceptics as different things. This is starting to remind me of Dark and Light all over again except without the pre-orders. Not very good damage control by fanboys with this one as well. Dark and Light had a few crazy fanboys that tried to make excuses for everything but nothing concrete ever came from them.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 42,622
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    You missed one.
    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?

     

    EVE Players?

    But back to the OP.  There will be no intelligent debate on the DF forums until the game releases. Until then, expect nothing but "yes, it will come out and be the greatest game ever" vs the "vaporware I tell you, no way it can deliver that feature set"

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by Random_mage

    Originally posted by Blodpls

    Originally posted by Random_mage


    You are right..
    They don't produce games..
    But, games do cost money to maintain.. and develop.  The more subscribers you have, the more money the developers have to make the game you are playing better.  It's sort of a cause and affect.. Money goes into games, games get better, more people play them.  The game gets better hardware.. making your overall gaming experience, better... ya dig?

     

    Marketing is also prohibitively expensive though, if you only have 10m Euro's to spend on creating a product you have to make choices.

    Do you spend it on the game or do you spend it on advertising?  No form of marketing is free or cheap.  Even doing interviews costs money. 

    The world of gaming media works on the principle of the "Junket", an expenses paid event organised by the publisher at which entertainment, trail bike riding or driving a tank ect, is provided and the opportunity to interview to devs is made.  If your not giving a Junket then FO we will send our reporters to somebody that are is the prevailing attitude.

    Who in their right would send their reporters to Athens and have to pay for it when EA's doing a free event, and god forbid that EA decides to stop doing them cause one of their competitors isn't footing the bill.

    Sadly that is how it works.

     

     

    I get the basic concepts of marketing costing money... However.. game magazines, as well as websites, don't get money from game companies paying them.. they get the money for the advertising that's generated by whatever they are spotlighting.  A game with this mass appeal that darkfall 'supposedly' has would, in affect, generate millions of hits (repeat visitors) to any sight marketing the game.  Thus, it does cost money to advertise, but having spots or articles in magazines.. which is why a lot of magazines will pay for exclusives.. thus generating more revenue for the company.

     

    DarkFall has done many many interviews, dev journals they were even the HOSTS of the ADW convention that housed the ESWC . They haven't exactly been hiding out as some seem to try and portray. US just isn't there focus at the moment. I mean hell they were even featured on one of the major news networks over in Greece lol. Until they get a publisher in the US though I don't seem them focusing much on advertising and marketing here.

  • BlodplsBlodpls Member Posts: 1,454

    Hmmm well if you guys don't want to take my word for it, how about the Washington Posts, or maybe Gamespot is a more reliable source of news? 

    www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/02/AR2007070201743.html

     

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586
    Originally posted by xzyax

    Originally posted by zymurgeist


    If you're tired of it why start another one? It's just bored people filling time until release.



     

    Yup... going to agree with zymurgeist on this one.

     

    The best thing DarkFall can do to quell the Troll side it to release the game in a state in which they have maintained for quite some time that it is in... Feature complete and stable.

     

    whoah, Zytx is that you????

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • mcpoopypantzmcpoopypantz Member Posts: 272

    he turned over a new leaf

  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190

    One of the reasons I stopped posting here is because most of the responders are irrational. I have no faith in Tasos, but I hope that the game turns out ok. There are way too many militant posters on here to have a decent conversation. So I will wait quietly and hope to bash their head in if the game turns out half way decent.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,442
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    You missed one.
    Trolls, cultists, and those that like to portray themselves as superior to both of those. What shall we call them?

     

    EVE Players?

    But back to the OP.  There will be no intelligent debate on the DF forums until the game releases. Until then, expect nothing but "yes, it will come out and be the greatest game ever" vs the "vaporware I tell you, no way it can deliver that feature set"

     

     

    The church of Eve-ology is actually scarier then the Darkfall fanatics.  Though you can at least reason with Eve-Online fans. 

    To answer the OP.  Arguing with the Darkfall fans is fun.  Some of them are way pass gone.  They produce some of the funniest post.  Then you have those that are at the line, but haven't crossed it.  They manage to hold on to a bit of their sanity.  Those are the most fun to debate with, they tend to be more rational even though, heavily believing that Darkfall is like the second coming of jesus.  They are far and few between though.  Only maybe 1 or 2 of them left, while the rest have gone off the deep end, and only here to provide the skeptics with amusement to pass the time.

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