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things you guys havnt seen in other MMO's but want to see in CoS

i know from the titles you guys think that jatar or some other personal on the MMO Magic teambut im not.

this thread is merely to give easy access for jatar and others to come here to get some fans ideas.

i would like to see jumping that actualy has a purpose in CoS.

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Comments

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    i just realized how vague my previous post was about jumping.

    i had an idea when i was thinking about my post and decided that jumping makes for really cool games, but the way im thinking of jumping i have never ever seen done before. the amount that the character runs around on his feet on average would eventualy increase his jumping slightly, but set this at a very slow speed. also if there was a skill that allows you to kick, this could also mean the stronger the kick the better the jump.  plus if you jump while attacking upwards like a upercut it would increase dmg but if you hit a downward strike like a skull crusher slash while you were headed upwards it would decrease dmg even if it hit. plus momentum added to thees and you could own in a much vaster amount of ways.

    also if your gonna have jumping you have to have a reason to have jumping besides the preveius.

    but have areas where you have to jump over chasms and jump to reach a ledge or grab an object on the wall aswell as jumping over enemy attacks.

    thats it.

  • crazyst3vecrazyst3ve Member Posts: 12

     I would really like to see a method of casting spells where it requires certain gestures or happenings to be able to cast.

    linking to the jumping, where you need to be in the air and you can cast a spell that comes down hard on your target and stuns them.

    or casting defensive spells,such as when you learn a spell you learn how to defend yourself against it, however if someone who knows this spell can tell you how to defend it, it will still work. I mean something like if you know what a character is casting at you or a mob which ever you want to call it you can hold space to let you defend it and for instance press W,D,S,E and let go when you want to defend it, if you thought it was a different spell cast then you defended wrong and it will hit you, otherwise it will fly up or vanish or however you want to do this.

    casting spells in this way would also be fun such as you have a few tied to a key and by pressing that key it will do everything for yo, but if you want to use a spell not tied you will need to hold ctrl and type in your sequence hoping you can remember it and let go or ctrl when you want to let fly.

    my ideas are often a little out of this world and in a different box all together, and not just out of this one.

    but that is one thing that i've been thinking of lately that would be great to see.

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    The jumping idea made me think of Legend of Zelda II The Adventure of Link where you had to go to the masters to train the upward and downward stab while jumping.

    If you want to play a game that requires a lot of typing to do stuff try out a MUD.  Once you get the hang of the typing get a Mud Client and create aliases and macros.  Although it may seem kinda cool, most people aren't interested in typing a lot when you can just use a macro/hotbar to accomplish the same task.

    This leads us back to the button-mashing style of play.  EQ2 gets away from this by chaining actions to get extra effects.  But, it's still button mashing, just controlled better at a group level.

    AoC tried a new approach by making players 'swing' their weapons with multiple options as to the placement of the swing.  This also leads to chaining of attacks to perform cooler attacks.

    What I think you are really wanting to see is that you have the ability to react to events in combat.  More like classic platform games (Mike Tyson's punchout) where the oponent would have a tell that gives away the move he is about to perform.  That allows you to effectively counter and pummel the crap out of them.

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    back to jumping. i think that momentum can be built into this system like if you jump and do the skull crusher slash while headed down you would do more dmg.

    taking this to a larger scale jump off a castle wall and do the skull crusher slash, you will dramaticly increase you dmg when you hit the guy on ground level (if you survive).

    also i would like to see if you hit a guy with an arrow/spell or anything else in the leg he would slow down and you hit him in the arm his melee swings less powerful and if you hit him in the head

    i also want to see a destructible enviorment. like you can cut down trees, make the ground fall out from beneath your enemys and so on and so forth.

    you cut down a tree and it falls on your enemy...

    being able to cast at most to spells at once, note that the spells have to use only one hand in the spell.

  • crazyst3vecrazyst3ve Member Posts: 12

     I would also like to see the world react with you so that is you decide to jump and hit a chandelier you will be hurt on your head.

    if you make a tree fall on your enemies and a wind blows and you close enough to this tree you will get saw dust in your eyes and your vision will be impaired.

    i also like the idea on aiming your attacks like mentioned here already and each place you aim will do something different, as it would be pretty crazy to shoot a arrow at someone's knee and watch them fall to the ground and take an eternal sleep. But watching it hamper the movement of that leg would be pretty amazing.

    I only see one problem with the head though, killing creatures on quests would be fine but would get a bit boring as one well aimed shot and you move to the next one and unless there enough this will become boring as there isn't much of a challenge, I would like the idea tho if instead of the head shot which we are so used to make it do double damage esp. when it comes to players fighting, it won't come to the most skill it will be the one to get the other's head, and protect theirs.

    and watching that in a tournament would be boring, 

    i wanna see   

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66
    Originally posted by crazyst3ve


    i also like the idea on aiming your attacks like mentioned here already and each place you aim will do something different, as it would be pretty crazy to shoot a arrow at someone's knee and watch them fall to the ground and take an eternal sleep. But watching it hamper the movement of that leg would be pretty amazing.
    I only see one problem with the head though, killing creatures on quests would be fine but would get a bit boring as one well aimed shot and you move to the next one and unless there enough this will become boring as there isn't much of a challenge, I would like the idea tho if instead of the head shot which we are so used to make it do double damage esp. when it comes to players fighting, it won't come to the most skill it will be the one to get the other's head, and protect theirs.



     

    I'm all in agreement with interactive environments!!

    FPS style has some serious issues when you add in lag over internet and collision detection.  Not to mention the point and shoot method of FPS is inconsistent with improving a character's skills and abilities.  CoS has already stated that they are going with the icon based system.

    To keep your idea in line with an icon system, what do you think of a Targeting GUI.  When you select on a target creature a window pops up that displays an outline of the creature and targetable sections.  With nothing selected you have no mods and attack the target as normal.  A humanoid would have targetable parts: head, torso, r. arm, l. arm, r. leg, l. leg.  Select on a target area and you will focus on attacking that part of the body with appropriate mods.

    Example: you are fighting a guy in armor, helm, small shield on left arm, sword in right.  If you target left arm, the block chance will increase drastically, but you can slowly fatigue/damage the left arm until his overall blocking ability drops.  If you target the left leg, his block drops slightly because it is harder to cover the full range of the leg with a small shield, but chance to hit drops because it is harder to hit.  Damage the leg sufficiently and speed drops/limping.

  • crazyst3vecrazyst3ve Member Posts: 12
    Originally posted by skipeth                                Example: you are fighting a guy in armor, helm, small shield on left arm, sword in right.  If you target left arm, the block chance will increase drastically, but you can slowly fatigue/damage the left arm until his overall blocking ability drops.  If you target the left leg, his block drops slightly because it is harder to cover the full range of the leg with a small shield, but chance to hit drops because it is harder to hit.  Damage the leg sufficiently and speed drops/limping.

     

    this would make the game much more interesting and take away that mindless hit and hope something happens part of most RPGs, it would make you think in order to win a battle

     

    i never knew about the icon based methods they were using though. Something new :) a real time feed on that icon in colour based as to how that part of the body is feeling would make this great

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    Color coding condition of parts is good.  Once a part redlines you probably want to switch to hitting something else.  This also makes for more interesting AI.  If the mob is taking a lot of damage to one part, it may change it's actions to adjust.  When players realize it has chaged tactics, they may need to re-evaluate their strategy.

    Definitely adds a lot of complexity and interest to combat for those who want it and still leaves open the basic select target and mash icons.

    Another interesting addition to this is handedness and stances become more than a study in rock-paper-scissors.  Fighting sword and shield when both sides are right-handed is quite different than when one is left-handed.  In the first, where sword and shield are opposing, blocking plays a key role.  In the second where shield is on shied and sword on sword, the shiled isn't as important and the swordplay.

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    wow both you skipeth and crazyst3ve. here i was thinking i was being really smart, indepth and creative but you guys blow me away.

    all i have to say is keep this thread alive with FIRE while i think of some other ideas.

  • crazyst3vecrazyst3ve Member Posts: 12

     lol thanks.

    the idea of bleeding would also be great or some sort of link to the weapon you are using.

    meaning if you are using a sort on an unblocked arm then the more you hit the more cuts and gashes there will be and so this will cause a increasing fatigue and if the cuts are enough you get a chance of going deep enough to cut a muscle rendering that area close to useless.

    however if you using an axe, then there will be more bruising and 'lamies' making that area harder to move and a chance of completely stuffing up the bones rendering it close to useless again.

    if there is a shield then depending how good it is will depend how much bruising you will get from it been pounded against you and how much fatigue you will get from the constant blocking.

    and if you had spells that would do say cutting or pushing or pin point hitting you could incorperate these into the weapon advantages

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    thanks for the props noobz.  I've been gaming for 25+ years and have played a wide variety of RPGs, war games, miniatures, and computer games as the industry has developed so I've got a lot of experience in what works and what doesn't work in games.

    Steve's last post regarding weapon types brings to mind some of the more complicated RPGs and wargames where Armor doesn't have a single rating, but is rated against different types of weapons.  Such as chainmail is fantastic vs. slashing weapons, ok vs. bludgeoning and is like cloth vs. piercing.  Different weapon types will also have different critical tables for the cool effects such as puncturing a lung, crushing someone's head in or cutting off a limb.

    I always liked systems that varied hit/dmg with weapon type vs. armor type.  I think it provides more interest and thought as to when do I want to use a sword, axe, maul etc.  As opposed to getting the one weapon that maximizes dps.

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    that sounds very interesting, also to add to this i think that spells should also be tied into this subject as well...

    say a knight wearing fullplate armor is walkin along and comes across a bandit, he kills the bandit and walks on without a scatch due to his armor. then later the knight comes across a fire/ice mage. the wisest choice would be to take off his armor and fight him because if he gets hit with fire the metal covering every inch of his body would heat up killing him soon after and if he gets hit by ice he will freeze to death.

    notice how i used a little bit of reallity. because his armor would intensify the spell dramaticly.

    (i do know that there will be no classes in CoS so dont bug me about it)

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    Exactly noobz.  Further expanding damage types to include magical, elemental, shadow, psionic etc. and how different armors and materials are affected makes for more interesting choices in gear.

    Let's say I get a mission that involves bandits.  I know bandits prefer lighter armors, lighter piercing weapons and bows, perhaps some magics to help them hide and the use of poisons.  I can then grab my armor that has higher rating against piercing weapons and some charms that protect from poison.

    So Jatar, is there any further info you can release about combat other than what is posted on the website?

  • DakirnDakirn Member UncommonPosts: 374

    I like the theory behind some of these ideas, however with MMOs usually the practice of them ends up tedious and makes game play less fun.

    The idea of switching armor between monsters is fine.. but when you're out working on a quest do you really want to spend all your time switching in and out of armors?  What if you don't have time to switch?

    Interactive combat sounds fun, but how interactive can it be before it just becomes tedious and you dread doing it?  Are 5 minute fights really that exciting?

    I understand the need for new an exciting concepts but keep in mind that most of these translate poorly to an environment such as an MMO where you're going to constantly have to use the system and it becomes more work than it's worth.

  • PellagrenPellagren Member Posts: 32

    I would like to see a system where not every skill/spell/ability works all/most of the time.  The fights could become much more fluid if you couldn't depend on that mez/stun/root landing and had to adapt tactics when they failed.  I could imagine a system where you could do all sorts of work to increase the chance of any single type of ability to work, but never reach 100%. 

  • TesinatoTesinato Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Originally posted by Dakirn


    I like the theory behind some of these ideas, however with MMOs usually the practice of them ends up tedious and makes game play less fun.
    The idea of switching armor between monsters is fine.. but when you're out working on a quest do you really want to spend all your time switching in and out of armors?  What if you don't have time to switch?
    Interactive combat sounds fun, but how interactive can it be before it just becomes tedious and you dread doing it?  Are 5 minute fights really that exciting?
    I understand the need for new an exciting concepts but keep in mind that most of these translate poorly to an environment such as an MMO where you're going to constantly have to use the system and it becomes more work than it's worth.

    Why not set up a system to where you have multiple equip windows?  If you were to say have 3 equipment windows, one for say light armor, heavy armor, and cloth armor, wouldn't that solve most of the tedious issues?  Generally if your in heavy armor, your going to have a shield, and some sort of weapon, but changing a weapon isn't hard.  Cloth more then likely would have a staff for magic boosting.

    If you had it setup so you could easily just hit a button and it would auto-equip a new set of armor, I think that would solve that issue.  Make it take 10 seconds or something as a cool-down, or you can't change armor for a said amount of time.  There is a way to make combat complex, but make it very universal and not tedious.  It is just a matter of it is possible to do, and if it is seriously a wanted feature to begin with.

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Since you asked... I'll tell you a little bit about part of our equipping system. But before I get into that, let's address the post about things getting 'tedious'. We are aware of the danger in some of these systems, and are both attempting to bring some more detail to combat and equipment, and yet not make it tedious.



    Our design will be tested and should any portion become annoying, it will be removed. It is important to us to offer various strategies in combat to the players, so that each battle challenges the players to make the best choices so that they win more often, and take less damage doing so. However, even if you don't employ these better tactics, battle can still be won, you just pay a higher price.



    Now, about changing equipment. CoS employs a system by which you can equip your character and then save out that configuration to an icon. You can make as many (or as few) of these as you wish. Changing to that configuration is then as simple as clicking on that icon. But, it takes time to change. The time is listed on the icon, so you can always see how much time it will take to make the change from what you have equipped now, to what you will equip if you click on the icon. This time changes depending on what you have equipped.



    We are going to offer advantages to certain types of equipment depending on who and what you are fighting, as well as other situations. it is then up to the player to decide if the time cost (listed on the icon) to change to a better piece (or pieces) of equipment is worth it. During the change, you can't defend or attack, so you're 'exposed'. Players who anticipate what they'll need by getting information ahead of time can already have the right armor, weapon, etc. ready.



    But it's not just about battle. If you are running toward a river with a pack of maggotmen on your tail, and you think you will swim across the river while wearing plate armor, think again. You, my friend, are what is known as an anchor. You can either, try to walk across the bottom of the river, and hope you can hold your breath that long (or use an underwater breathing spell to help extend that time), or you can take off your armor. That could take up to a minute or two, and if those nasty dudes are close, that's not really an option.



    On the subject of damage, we are employing several types, including slash, pierce and crush. Certain weapons do better in each of these, and certain types of armor are better protection. Also, some monsters have hide or skin that is resistant to some of these. There is an equivalent in the magical arena, and psionics.



    What this means is that knowledge is power. Knowing what you are going up against in this quest is important information. You can learn this information various ways, like doing research on an area before going there (in the library), or talking to locals, or the good old trial and error. Hmmm, i stabbed that beast with my sword and did 1 HP of damage, I wonder if his hide resists piercing damage? Maybe I should take the time to switch to a mace, (icon says, 5 seconds, not bad). Now I hit him with that and do 30 HP, much better.



    So anyway, there is some information on what we're doing. More on combat will be released later on. The only thing I'll say is that we're working hard to add strategy to the combat system, you need to use the right choices for the right moment in a battle. Just mashing icons to hit your target with the next available Ability is a recipe for disaster in CoS. Using knowledge and tactics will get you much better results. Finally, no one strategy will work for every battle, because your opponents will not use the same strategies. Much depends on their intelligence. Fortunately, we won't throw any super genius level monsters at you when you first start the game.



    Hope that helps. Keep up the discussion, it's very interesting. Our design team has had full in depth discussions on every one of these subjects, but it's interesting to see if you guys hit on anything different. We always read your posts, even if we don't always comment. Sometimes we don't want to kill your brainstorm session by interjecting too much reality.

     

  • TesinatoTesinato Member UncommonPosts: 222

    Seriously, that sounds like a very interesting system.  I like the idea of an icon to do it all for you.  That does save time.  I'm curious though, how will that work with inventory?  We going to have a big enough bag or capacity to carry say 2 or 3 sets of armor and weapons around?  If so, that would be cool.  I'm glad to see you guys are thinking about how to make the combat challenging.  I really love this idea alot.

    Thanks Jatar for replying, I am sure your a busy person.  Again I'm glad to see a developper who wants to step out of the mold a little, and make something far better.  Can't wait to play. :)

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Originally posted by Shadowlord10


    Seriously, that sounds like a very interesting system.  I like the idea of an icon to do it all for you.  That does save time.  I'm curious though, how will that work with inventory?  We going to have a big enough bag or capacity to carry say 2 or 3 sets of armor and weapons around?  If so, that would be cool.  I'm glad to see you guys are thinking about how to make the combat challenging.  I really love this idea alot.
    Thanks Jatar for replying, I am sure your a busy person.  Again I'm glad to see a developper who wants to step out of the mold a little, and make something far better.  Can't wait to play. :)

     

    OK, inventory...

    Cos uses a tabbed inventory sheet system that auto sorts your equipment to the correct panel by 'type'.  This keeps your inventory sorted nicely, gives you plenty of storage and yet allows us to limit the number of each type of item category you are carrying (since you cannot put say, armor in the shields area).  How you carry all this and don't look like a pack mule is simple, it's a magic bag.   It compresses the size and reduces the weight of what's inside :)  (It is Citadel of SORCERY).

    This way when you are fleeing those maggotmen on your tail and try to cross the river, when you take off your plate armor it goes in the magic bag, therefore it does not take you to the bottom of the river since the weight of the armor is reduced once it is inside the magic bag.   And, when you get to the other side of the river, you can put your armor back on (since you didn't have to leave it on the other side to swm across).

    There is still a limit to how much you can carry, and in this system, you could run out of 'armor' space while sill having room for other things, or vice-versa.   But... there is also a system to reduce space in your bag without having to drop equipment or return to a town.   More about that later on :)

  • TesinatoTesinato Member UncommonPosts: 222

    Very nice.  Seems like this system will do wonders.  Seems like it is complex, and yet very simple to use.  I really do have to say you guys have really put alot of thought into this kind of stuff.  I can only assume most folks don't even really think about storage or inventory space, but you guys created a whole system for it.  It is just impressive.

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    Thanks for the info.  Looks like we hit on some of the combat concepts you are working on, and it sounds great.  I'll definitely be spending some time researching enemies before heading out on quests. 

    Yea! magic bag of holding.  I was wondering how you were going to cross the river with 200lbs of gear in your pack.  Maybe you could grab a goat skin bladder and fill it with air to use as a floatation device. 

    Thanks for auto-sorting inventory by type.  Managing items in varied size bags of crap when you are collecting assorted quest items, loot and resources is a huge pain in the ass.

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    To continue to expand on Armor having varied resistance to damage type, what about materials?

    Cloth: Silk, cotton, flannel, wool

    Leather: cow/deer, rhino, shark,

    Metal: bronze, iron, steel

    Awesome materials: dragon scales, demon skin, ceramic-carbide

    Where different materials effect equipment weight and assorted resistances.

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    first of all......

    all this in one DAY!?!?!?!?!? wow and all that info flying around like a bullets in a gunfight.

    now skipeth about both of your posts on materials (i just wanted you to know i read threw all of it) it sounds like a very interesting idea personally i'd go for dragon scale mailof course there should be more materials then that like for metal there should be bronze, iron, steele, and how about some giant insects you can kill, take there exo-skeleton and head to a smith to have him make it into armor for you? just as strong as steele plate mail and half the weight.

    and how about if you look alot like a creature those particular ones wont attack you unless they are smart ones.

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    im wondering if the following creatures will be in CoS

    Vampires (classical)

    Gnolls (not so well known)

    zombies (do i have to answer)

    dragons (must, absolutley a MUST)

    Mimics (just to keep players on their toes when opening chests)

    and thats all i can think of right now

     

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Hmm.  I have never even HEARD of CoS, and can't find anything about it on MMORPG.com.  Maybe I just didn't take enough time to hunt?

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

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