Crap. Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG. Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
Crap. Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG. Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.
Crap. Pong was a game and not a genre all by itself, and a MUD is still a MUD, infact all the innovation in MUDS could be said to have born the mmoRPG, in a round about way ~ a different genre. looking to my left I see a big list of games that all have certian aspects in common (except Planetside WW2 and a very few others), thus making them belong to a .... genre .... A car can be seen as a genre, as it is a TYPE OF VEHICLE. Innovation is welcome, but the post of mine you originaly chose to quote was in reply to someone suggesting that mmoRPGs need to be dismantled and completely redone. That coupled with some peoples apparent dislike for the RPG bit of an mmoRPG, would not be possible whilst maintaing enough features to qualify it as an mmo-RPG. Once again, you are looking for an mmoSOMETHING.
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.
I agree. Second Life is a porn chatroom with some "rpg" elements, IF you want to count that TYPE of "roleplaying" as gaming and not a sexual deviation. (Not that it can't be a FUN "deviation." LOL)
The games list is FULL of "MMOs." But to tout them all as mmoRPGs, is ludicrous. (My opinion only, of course, albeit, I feel it has some merit.)
Originally posted by nikoliath 2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so . 3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war. 4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues
5) Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make. 6) I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. 7) I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.
3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.
4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.
4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.
4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT? On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.
5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.
6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.
7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...
All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Originally posted by nikoliath 2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so . 3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war. 4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues
5) Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make. 6) I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. 7) I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.
3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.
4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.
4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.
You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. This says alot, to me, about you. The games I have listed does not read like some mmo graveyard. I can not think of one single mmo that I am bitter about, in ANY way. I suggest next time you quote me, so you can whine, you actually bother to look at the context of my conversation and with whom it is being held. As you missed this point, like many other points you missed, I will clear it up for you.
The post you quote was a reply to girlgeek [edited typo on name] and not [important typo fix] entirely in referance to the OP.
4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT? On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.
Good for you if you feel picking fault with something that is subjective and dressing it up as a game breaking fact. And NO I am not addressing the chat user interface when I discuss subjectivity. I suggest you bother to read some of my replies here. For the record I will, just for you, state once again, I know full well what subjective means. Ifn you are going to use the quote feature atleast bother to see to whom the quotation is directed at and the context of that post.
5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.
You can not, any more than I, know for certain that this is true. Although if you care to browse some of the rediculous posts on this site it's hard to refute what I say. Maybe you took it personally?
6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.
You fail once again. It is not a contradiction. I have not told anyone to like this game, or any other game. I argue points that people make, but always believe people should try for themsleves. I often state in the "should I play this game" threads... try it for yourself.
7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...
It is amazingly common for people to consume a hobby at such a rate they become tired of it. Just look at the sports people take up when they are on the TV or in season. The play play play until they get bored. After a break from it they pick it up again.
The notible difference with this industry is the rate of consumption. Some people will play for 4-8 hours per DAY. I will say again, nothing can quench these peoples thirst for new things to experience within this GENRE. And instead of taking a break, they complain that the industry is failing them or rubbishing a new mmoRPG for being.............................an mmoRPG!
All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.
If that is your opinion, good for you, I know differently. It is perhaps somewhat ironic, or moronic, that you lambast me for hostility in the face of disaggreement, and yet ridicule me and suggest I have mental health issues for writing something you do not agree with. And you call me out for "contradiction"
Thank you Dr gazenthia, sadly you reply is total bile.
That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.
Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.
MMORPG's are DEAD.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.
Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.
MMORPG's are DEAD.
How wrong can 1 person be? I started in 2001 with Anarchy Online and loved it. I moved on to Neocron and then on from there WoW was one of the last few I played, I avoided it for years because the art style did'nt appeal to me, but I decided to try it for myself and enjoyed it for some time. I have played, sampled and enjoyed many MMORPGS. I am not dictating to anyone how good WAR is or is not, or any other game for that matter.
But for you to make a statement of fact : "MMORPGs are dead", is bollocks. Brag all you like about your highbrow view on you think is a great MMORPG, and slurr those of us who do not share your apathy.
Tbh they should have just cut the scenarios from the game and focused on a more fulfilling RvR experience. Course the downside to a pure RvR game is that any faction population imbalance would put the less populated faction at a disadvantage.
How do you combat this? I've yet to come up with a solution.
As one guy mentioned earlier in the thread, the itemization is shocking in some areas. I'm finding bright wizard gear with heavy willpower/weaponskill. Wth? The junk items find their way to the salvagers.
But it's early days and I'm still enjoying the game. The moment I don't.. well then it'll be time to quit.
Tbh they should have just cut the scenarios from the game and focused on a more fulfilling RvR experience. Course the downside to a pure RvR game is that any faction population imbalance would put the less populated faction at a disadvantage. How do you combat this? I've yet to come up with a solution.
Well a three faction system like DAoC would have been better - as if one side get too powerful the other two presumably fight each other less. In theory at least.
I've always thought that 5-way RvR is the way to go, with each faction having two mortal enemies.. a bit like the Magic: The Gathering colours.
That way there are plenty of opportunities for the other factions to gang up on a single faction which extends itself too much.
Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.
"Congo rats" on finding a game you love! Isn't that what it's all about?
I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games. It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.
If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.
Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.
Congrats on finding a game you love! Isn't that what it's all about?
I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games. It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.
If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.
Comments
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.
All you need for a game to be a mmorpg is chat and a persistent representation of a virtual world/area where a large number of players can interact whilst assuming the persona of another sentient thing, that's it. Everything else can stripped away and replaced with whatever dev's can come up with.
Those are the only things all mmorpgs currently in the genre have in common.
Just because a lot of them share the same crappy mechanics it does not mean that is the only way of doing it.
There is plenty of room for creating totally new ideas.
Wrong. Second Life, for example, is NOT an MMORPG.
I agree. Second Life is a porn chatroom with some "rpg" elements, IF you want to count that TYPE of "roleplaying" as gaming and not a sexual deviation. (Not that it can't be a FUN "deviation." LOL)
The games list is FULL of "MMOs." But to tout them all as mmoRPGs, is ludicrous. (My opinion only, of course, albeit, I feel it has some merit.)
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.
3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.
4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.
4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.
4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT? On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.
5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.
6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.
7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...
All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
2) I think that your vast gaming career says a lot about you myself. I'll get back to this. Yes, your reply in question was extremely immature.
3) You have done almost nothing but degenerate this conversation.
4) There are a lot of things that are wrong and contradictory here so I will have to break this down into subgroups.
4a) Your statement that you have a problem with ex mmo fans is really... something else and I think you regard it as something that stands entirely on its own; IE you just dragged in something else to support it in this discussion. I think that a lot of the games you've played have died or deteriorated and you blame other players for leaving and/or saying bad things.
You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. This says alot, to me, about you. The games I have listed does not read like some mmo graveyard. I can not think of one single mmo that I am bitter about, in ANY way. I suggest next time you quote me, so you can whine, you actually bother to look at the context of my conversation and with whom it is being held. As you missed this point, like many other points you missed, I will clear it up for you.
The post you quote was a reply to girlgeek [edited typo on name] and not [important typo fix] entirely in referance to the OP.
4b) So WHAT if they complain about subjective issues? SO WHAT? On to the relevance of your comment to this thread, the chat interface and free-flowing communication being a key factor in an mmorpg is NOT a subjective reality.
Good for you if you feel picking fault with something that is subjective and dressing it up as a game breaking fact. And NO I am not addressing the chat user interface when I discuss subjectivity. I suggest you bother to read some of my replies here. For the record I will, just for you, state once again, I know full well what subjective means. Ifn you are going to use the quote feature atleast bother to see to whom the quotation is directed at and the context of that post.
5) Another really disturbing comment and snapshot of your mind. Nobody is here rubbing their hands in glee, hoping that they ruin hundreds of millions of lives and nuke years of work, perhaps laughing maniacally. Sorry, no. It is a simple case of people complaining about games, or parts of them, that they hate or dislike.
You can not, any more than I, know for certain that this is true. Although if you care to browse some of the rediculous posts on this site it's hard to refute what I say. Maybe you took it personally?
6) Obviously you do have a problem. A really big problem with it. #4 is a contradiction straight from your own post, in your own words. You also act and respond immaturely, aggressively, and persistantly at the sight of such opinions that you dislike.
You fail once again. It is not a contradiction. I have not told anyone to like this game, or any other game. I argue points that people make, but always believe people should try for themsleves. I often state in the "should I play this game" threads... try it for yourself.
7) This is illogical. If there are a lot of mmorpg players that are just sitting there, bored, than obviously that is because the industry has yet to provide something for them. Yeah...
It is amazingly common for people to consume a hobby at such a rate they become tired of it. Just look at the sports people take up when they are on the TV or in season. The play play play until they get bored. After a break from it they pick it up again.
The notible difference with this industry is the rate of consumption. Some people will play for 4-8 hours per DAY. I will say again, nothing can quench these peoples thirst for new things to experience within this GENRE. And instead of taking a break, they complain that the industry is failing them or rubbishing a new mmoRPG for being.............................an mmoRPG!
All in all, your post read like a nervous breakdown to me personally. I think you might have some other problems going on here.
If that is your opinion, good for you, I know differently. It is perhaps somewhat ironic, or moronic, that you lambast me for hostility in the face of disaggreement, and yet ridicule me and suggest I have mental health issues for writing something you do not agree with. And you call me out for "contradiction"
Thank you Dr gazenthia, sadly you reply is total bile.
Mind how you go.
That about sums it up. MMORPG's are DEAD.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
That about sums it up. My enthusiasm for MMORPG's is DEAD.
Edited for you
Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.
MMORPG's are DEAD.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Yes, you are correct. My enthusiasm for dumbed-down and linear MMORPG's IS dead. If you think WAR is an MMORPG then you as a player have very low standards. I've had more fun PvPing in games like Battlefield Vietnam. Evan as an online Xbox console game this effort is weak. You likely started playing these games in 2004 when WoW came along. If you were experienced you'd know better. But then again - maybe you just have low standards for what a massive online role playing game should be. By all means, enjoy your new toy.
MMORPG's are DEAD.
How wrong can 1 person be? I started in 2001 with Anarchy Online and loved it. I moved on to Neocron and then on from there WoW was one of the last few I played, I avoided it for years because the art style did'nt appeal to me, but I decided to try it for myself and enjoyed it for some time. I have played, sampled and enjoyed many MMORPGS. I am not dictating to anyone how good WAR is or is not, or any other game for that matter.
But for you to make a statement of fact : "MMORPGs are dead", is bollocks. Brag all you like about your highbrow view on you think is a great MMORPG, and slurr those of us who do not share your apathy.
Tbh they should have just cut the scenarios from the game and focused on a more fulfilling RvR experience. Course the downside to a pure RvR game is that any faction population imbalance would put the less populated faction at a disadvantage.
How do you combat this? I've yet to come up with a solution.
As one guy mentioned earlier in the thread, the itemization is shocking in some areas. I'm finding bright wizard gear with heavy willpower/weaponskill. Wth? The junk items find their way to the salvagers.
But it's early days and I'm still enjoying the game. The moment I don't.. well then it'll be time to quit.
Goodbye to all you that are leaving. You will not be missed. This game is fricking sweet. I loves it.
later haterz /wave
the game is mad rad
Well a three faction system like DAoC would have been better - as if one side get too powerful the other two presumably fight each other less. In theory at least.
I've always thought that 5-way RvR is the way to go, with each faction having two mortal enemies.. a bit like the Magic: The Gathering colours.
That way there are plenty of opportunities for the other factions to gang up on a single faction which extends itself too much.
Indeed it is. I love it.
"Congo rats" on finding a game you love! Isn't that what it's all about?
I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games.
It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.
If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Ahhhh, the mating call of the Vanboi ... Oh wait... its the mating call of the AoC boi... hmmm, wait.....
Congrats on finding a game you love! Isn't that what it's all about?
I feel the EXACT same way about the people that may be leaving games that I like and play, for other games.
It just makes less friction in the game if people that don't enjoy it, aren't PLAYING it.
If everyone would just play the games they love for the enjoyment they bring TO THEM.....the gaming world....would be a better place.
Amen brother.. sister