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Democrats insult our intelligence suggesting we can't perform basic math

Vote on bailout package failed by 13 votes. 133 Republicans voted no, 95 Democrats voted no, yet it's the Republicans fault?

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  • streeastreea Member UncommonPosts: 654
    Originally posted by RedwoodSap


    Vote on bailout package failed by 13 votes. 133 Republicans voted no, 95 Democrats voted no, yet it's the Republicans fault?



     

    This is a BIG two-way street considering that everyone is so busy talking about how the Democrats are pansies for trying to bail out big banks, yet 40% weren't on board for it.

    Honestly, I'm tired of the generalizations. If it were like 10% or less, then yes, it'd be the Republicans who were against this bill and the Democrats for it. But that's not the case AT ALL.

    REALITY though doesn't make for good headlines, and it's hard to point fingers when you're going "Damn the slight majority of Republicans, oh and the slight minority of Democrats, who voted against this!"

  • DailyBuzzDailyBuzz Member Posts: 2,306

    Do you think there's at least 13 members that woke up thinking to themself "if I knew then what I know now"? Hopefully the next two days won't be as brutal as yesterday, but if they are even close, this bill will easily pass Thursday. Then again, two more days like yesterday and all the constituents that called their representatives in opposition could be filing for unemployment.

    Important numbers:

    Democrats in favor = 60%

    Republicans in favor = 33%

    "Nay" votes cast by representatives in contested districts = 66%

     

    I think it'spretty clear what happened. Citizens called their representatives to express their disdain for the bailout and the politicians that were concerned about holding their seat voted "nay". As usual, the public doesn't understand what's in their best interest.

    How can McCain "suspend" his campaign and bolt off to Washington to secure a deal, and still not even deliver half of his party? He talks a lot about working across the aisle for someone who can't even persuade those on his side of the aisle. I guess they just said 'fuck John, I got my own campaign to worry about'. Some leader.

    Politics is a rough business, and the voters are quite fickle. The same people who were demanding a "nay" vote will be blaming these representatives when they lose their job a month from now. Unfortunately, they will also have no savings to support them until the market swings back.

  • FaxxerFaxxer Member Posts: 3,247
    Originally posted by DailyBuzz


    Do you think there's at least 13 members that woke up thinking to themself "if I knew then what I know now"? Hopefully the next two days won't be as brutal as yesterday, but if they are even close, this bill will easily pass Thursday. Then again, two more days like yesterday and all the constituents that called their representatives in opposition could be filing for unemployment.
    Important numbers:


    Democrats in favor = 60%


    Republicans in favor = 33%


    "Nay" votes cast by representatives in contested districts = 66%
     
    I think it'spretty clear what happened. Citizens called their representatives to express their disdain for the bailout and the politicians that were concerned about holding their seat voted "nay". As usual, the public doesn't understand what's in their best interest.
    How can McCain "suspend" his campaign and bolt off to Washington to secure a deal, and still not even deliver half of his party? He talks a lot about working across the aisle for someone who can't even persuade those on his side of the aisle. I guess they just said 'fuck John, I got my own campaign to worry about'. Some leader.
    Politics is a rough business, and the voters are quite fickle. The same people who were demanding a "nay" vote will be blaming these representatives when they lose their job a month from now. Unfortunately, they will also have no savings to support them until the market swings back.

    If i were a representative and my staff got thousands of calls from angry voters saying "do not vote" for this bill....  damn straight I'd vote no. 

     

    If nothing else they are representatives of THEIR constituents.  The ppl of the United States gave them the word...NO.  They dare not oppose that lest they find new work come November. (or next election cycle)

    besides...  Do you really want the same people that CREATED this problem to be handed trillion dollars to fix it?  are you shitting me?  This congress ...this DEMOCRAT controlled congress has the lowest approval rating in history... 10%

    let every business that needs a bailout file for bankruptcy.  THAT is what main street america does, why should they be any different?

    this is sortof a QFE but with my 2 cents tacked on..lol

  • DailyBuzzDailyBuzz Member Posts: 2,306
    Originally posted by Faxxer



    let every business that needs a bailout file for bankruptcy.  THAT is what main street america does, why should they be any different?

    I'd agree if it were only the businesses that were perpetrating fraud that went down. However, all businesses are going to be affected. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    Back up the people and not the people who caused this mess in the first place. The people who caused it need to be replaced, and we need to secure the financial futures of the victims instead.  We can rebuild our businesses, their proposals just leaves us with insane amount of homeless that cannot get houses because of the damage from their credit from being screwed over and forced into a"scheme" when they were only trying to find homes for their families to live in. They are going to be much worse after this "proposal" than before they started.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by DailyBuzz


    Do you think there's at least 13 members that woke up thinking to themself "if I knew then what I know now"? Hopefully the next two days won't be as brutal as yesterday, but if they are even close, this bill will easily pass Thursday. Then again, two more days like yesterday and all the constituents that called their representatives in opposition could be filing for unemployment.
    Important numbers:


    Democrats in favor = 60%


    Republicans in favor = 33%


    "Nay" votes cast by representatives in contested districts = 66%
     
    I think it'spretty clear what happened. Citizens called their representatives to express their disdain for the bailout and the politicians that were concerned about holding their seat voted "nay". As usual, the public doesn't understand what's in their best interest.
    How can McCain "suspend" his campaign and bolt off to Washington to secure a deal, and still not even deliver half of his party? He talks a lot about working across the aisle for someone who can't even persuade those on his side of the aisle. I guess they just said 'fuck John, I got my own campaign to worry about'. Some leader.
    Politics is a rough business, and the voters are quite fickle. The same people who were demanding a "nay" vote will be blaming these representatives when they lose their job a month from now. Unfortunately, they will also have no savings to support them until the market swings back.

     

    This is a democrat controlled House. If something doesn't get passed it is 100% the democrats fault. In the Senate it's another story of course; Republicans can fillibuster there.

    In all ways the fault of this Bill not passing lies with the Democrats, as well as the weakness and stupid behavior of Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank. They had to play politics and a blame game with every statement they made. Epic fail from the least popular congress in history.

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by Fishermage


     
    This is a democrat controlled House. If something doesn't get passed it is 100% the democrats fault. In the Senate it's another story of course; Republicans can fillibuster there.
    In all ways the fault of this Bill not passing lies with the Democrats, as well as the weakness and stupid behavior of Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank. They had to play politics and a blame game with every statement they made. Epic fail from the least popular congress in history.



     

    This was a dumb statement. Just because your a democrat doesnt mean you are going to agree with another democrat. Everyone still has there own views and what they should vote for.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by DailyBuzz 
    I'd agree if it were only the businesses that were perpetrating fraud that went down. However, all businesses are going to be affected.


    So, do you think for this reason they should be bailed out? There are no consequences. This will just empower them to commit fraud even more knowing the government will be there to continue to socialize the market and bail them out again. Yes, it will be tough, but this must not pass.

    And, do you not understand that many of the "yes" votes, both democrats and republicans alike, are going against their constituents wishes. The politicians are forgetting their duty. They are voting what they think is best, not what the people want. Over 50% of the constituents polled stated they did not want the bailout package.

    Who do you think is going to pay for this? Do you think the government has a surplus of $700 billion lying around? There was already a $400+billion deficit in the budget. That did not include the $50billion stimulus package. It does not include the additional stimulus payment the democrats want to issue. It does not include the inflation which will be caused by the additional $630billion the Fed pumped into the markets. That only devalues our dollar more.

    How do you think this will be paid? It will be financed by foreign entities. This country will go further and further into debt leaving one valuable resource we will have to pay it off. Land. My children, and their children, will be paying for this for the rest of their lives.

     

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by DailyBuzz 
    I'd agree if it were only the businesses that were perpetrating fraud that went down. However, all businesses are going to be affected.


    So, do you think for this reason they should be bailed out? There are no consequences. This will just empower them to commit fraud even more knowing the government will be there to continue to socialize the market and bail them out again. Yes, it will be tough, but this must not pass.

    And, do you not understand that many of the "yes" votes, both democrats and republicans alike, are going against their constituents wishes. The politicians are forgetting their duty. They are voting what they think is best, not what the people want. Over 50% of the constituents polled stated they did not want the bailout package.

    Who do you think is going to pay for this? Do you think the government has a surplus of $700 billion lying around? There was already a $400+billion deficit in the budget. That did not include the $50billion stimulus package. It does not include the additional stimulus payment the democrats want to issue. It does not include the inflation which will be caused by the additional $630billion the Fed pumped into the markets. That only devalues our dollar more.

    How do you think this will be paid? It will be financed by foreign entities. This country will go further and further into debt leaving one valuable resource we will have to pay it off. Land. My children, and their children, will be paying for this for the rest of their lives.

     



     

    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed? though i don't think they should bail them out i understand what it is for though.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by Goldknyght


    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed? though i don't think they should bail them out i understand what it is for though.



     

    I fully understand what this bailout is for, it is "supposed" to prevent  a global meltdown. But the problem is the way they are going about it it will not only not prevent a global meltdown, it will leave many of our citizens out to dry and homeless. Their plan benefits those in congress who have much to lose from this, and are backed by these failed companies. There are other ways to go about stablizing the economy just they do not want to consider them.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Goldknyght
    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed?

    Yes, I do. But the reason does not justify this action. Economists, Congress and even the President (as stupid as he is) say this is a short-term fix. It's a patch on the problem. It is not a fix. We will suffer more if this bill passes than if it does not.

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Goldknyght
    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed?

    Yes, I do. But the reason does not justify this action. Economists, Congress and even the President (as stupid as he is) say this is a short-term fix. It's a patch on the problem. It is not a fix. We will suffer more if this bill passes than if it does not.



     

    I dont need you to flame me but i really want to know how it will be bad in the long run if it works.

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Goldknyght


    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed? though i don't think they should bail them out i understand what it is for though.



     

    I fully understand what this bailout is for, it is "supposed" to prevent  a global meltdown. But the problem is the way they are going about it it will not only not prevent a global meltdown, it will leave many of our citizens out to dry and homeless. Their plan benefits those in congress who have much to lose from this, and are backed by these failed companies. There are other ways to go about stablizing the economy just they do not want to consider them.



     

    Well if what you say is true and that this bill will benefit the people in congress then the bill would of passed right? I could bet a majority of them care about themselves right now then you i would think to get the bill passed if thats what you believe.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Goldknyght

    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Goldknyght
    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed?

    Yes, I do. But the reason does not justify this action. Economists, Congress and even the President (as stupid as he is) say this is a short-term fix. It's a patch on the problem. It is not a fix. We will suffer more if this bill passes than if it does not.



     

    I dont need you to flame me but i really want to know how it will be bad in the long run if it works.

    Larger national debt, inflation, devaluation of the dollar just to name a few. This is a debt I do not wish my children to carry, nor their children or their children.

    The proponents of this bill are riding on the hope that the assets will increase in value over time and provide a return.

    Have you actually seen the proposed bill? And I mean that in a respectful tone. I am seriously asking if you actually have sat down and read any portion of the bill. I haven't read it all, but I have read some. I am just baffled that any would vote yes if they read it.

    And, there is one major flaw in your question - the word "if". However, again it was said this is a short-term fix if it works.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by Goldknyght

    Originally posted by deviliscious


    I fully understand what this bailout is for, it is "supposed" to prevent  a global meltdown. But the problem is the way they are going about it it will not only not prevent a global meltdown, it will leave many of our citizens out to dry and homeless. Their plan benefits those in congress who have much to lose from this, and are backed by these failed companies. There are other ways to go about stablizing the economy just they do not want to consider them.



     

    Well if what you say is true and that this bill will benefit the people in congress then the bill would of passed right? I could bet a majority of them care about themselves right now then you i would think to get the bill passed if thats what you believe.

    LOl that isn't just what I belive it is true! Pelosi has more to lose than anyone in congress right now. look into the finances of those that voted for the bill, those are the people that were allowed into the "closed door sessions" and they threw everyone else out  and expected them to sign it anyways "because they said so" Look at what both republicans and democrats said was happening during all of this, they are telling the truth.  Even democrats with nothing to lose here stated that  their friends in congress were enemies of the republic. What happened according to the "other senators" the ones that do not have personal interests stake here:

     

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.youtube.com/watch

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Goldknyght

    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Goldknyght
    Do you even know why the bailout is proposed?

    Yes, I do. But the reason does not justify this action. Economists, Congress and even the President (as stupid as he is) say this is a short-term fix. It's a patch on the problem. It is not a fix. We will suffer more if this bill passes than if it does not.



     

    I dont need you to flame me but i really want to know how it will be bad in the long run if it works.

    Larger national debt, inflation, devaluation of the dollar just to name a few. This is a debt I do not wish my children to carry, nor their children or their children.

    The proponents of this bill are riding on the hope that the assets will increase in value over time and provide a return.

    Have you actually seen the proposed bill? And I mean that in a respectful tone. I am seriously asking if you actually have sat down and read any portion of the bill. I haven't read it all, but I have read some. I am just baffled that any would vote yes if they read it.

    And, there is one major flaw in your question - the word "if". However, again it was said this is a short-term fix if it works.



     

    Nope haven't read it yet but getting on it. Linky for anybody else its at the bottome of the wiki under referances 110page PDF.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_bailout_of_U.S._financial_system_(2008)

  • FaxxerFaxxer Member Posts: 3,247
    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Goldknyght

    Originally posted by deviliscious


    I fully understand what this bailout is for, it is "supposed" to prevent  a global meltdown. But the problem is the way they are going about it it will not only not prevent a global meltdown, it will leave many of our citizens out to dry and homeless. Their plan benefits those in congress who have much to lose from this, and are backed by these failed companies. There are other ways to go about stablizing the economy just they do not want to consider them.



     

    Well if what you say is true and that this bill will benefit the people in congress then the bill would of passed right? I could bet a majority of them care about themselves right now then you i would think to get the bill passed if thats what you believe.

    LOl that isn't just what I belive it is true! Pelosi has more to lose than anyone in congress right now. look into the finances of those that voted for the bill, those are the people that were allowed into the "closed door sessions" and they threw everyone else out  and expected them to sign it anyways "because they said so" Look at what both republicans and democrats said was happening during all of this, they are telling the truth.  Even democrats with nothing to lose here stated that  their friends in congress were enemies of the republic. What happened according to the "other senators" the ones that do not have personal interests stake here:

     

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.youtube.com/watch



     

    your two videos are so damning to the democrats...they have to be gearing up for a major media blitz with their lib friends in the press to lie and smear this into the republican's fault zone... typical.

    I'm amazed how many people use CNN only or NYT only as their opinion litmus.  in a land of blind people the one eyed man is king.

  • Tyres100Tyres100 Member Posts: 704
    Originally posted by Faxxer

    Originally posted by DailyBuzz


    Do you think there's at least 13 members that woke up thinking to themself "if I knew then what I know now"? Hopefully the next two days won't be as brutal as yesterday, but if they are even close, this bill will easily pass Thursday. Then again, two more days like yesterday and all the constituents that called their representatives in opposition could be filing for unemployment.
    Important numbers:


    Democrats in favor = 60%


    Republicans in favor = 33%


    "Nay" votes cast by representatives in contested districts = 66%
     
    I think it'spretty clear what happened. Citizens called their representatives to express their disdain for the bailout and the politicians that were concerned about holding their seat voted "nay". As usual, the public doesn't understand what's in their best interest.
    How can McCain "suspend" his campaign and bolt off to Washington to secure a deal, and still not even deliver half of his party? He talks a lot about working across the aisle for someone who can't even persuade those on his side of the aisle. I guess they just said 'fuck John, I got my own campaign to worry about'. Some leader.
    Politics is a rough business, and the voters are quite fickle. The same people who were demanding a "nay" vote will be blaming these representatives when they lose their job a month from now. Unfortunately, they will also have no savings to support them until the market swings back.

    If i were a representative and my staff got thousands of calls from angry voters saying "do not vote" for this bill....  damn straight I'd vote no. 

     

    If nothing else they are representatives of THEIR constituents.  The ppl of the United States gave them the word...NO.  They dare not oppose that lest they find new work come November. (or next election cycle)

    besides...  Do you really want the same people that CREATED this problem to be handed trillion dollars to fix it?  are you shitting me?  This congress ...this DEMOCRAT controlled congress has the lowest approval rating in history... 10%

    let every business that needs a bailout file for bankruptcy.  THAT is what main street america does, why should they be any different?

    this is sortof a QFE but with my 2 cents tacked on..lol

     

    You believe that? Sorry but it sounds naive to think a politician is really out there basing important decisions on a few people. What ever happened to doing what is best for our country.

    Who let you in the VIP section?

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by Tyres100

    Originally posted by Faxxer


    If i were a representative and my staff got thousands of calls from angry voters saying "do not vote" for this bill....  damn straight I'd vote no. 

     
    If nothing else they are representatives of THEIR constituents.  The ppl of the United States gave them the word...NO.  They dare not oppose that lest they find new work come November. (or next election cycle)
    besides...  Do you really want the same people that CREATED this problem to be handed trillion dollars to fix it?  are you shitting me?  This congress ...this DEMOCRAT controlled congress has the lowest approval rating in history... 10%
    let every business that needs a bailout file for bankruptcy.  THAT is what main street america does, why should they be any different?
    this is sortof a QFE but with my 2 cents tacked on..lol

     

    You believe that? Sorry but it sounds naive to think a politician is really out there basing important decisions on a few people. What ever happened to doing what is best for our country.

    Yes we believe that because it is true. THIS IS WHAT OUR OWN SENATORS ARE SAYING IS HAPPENING. Both Democrats and republicans are telling us this. Have you not watched these videos?

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.youtube.com/watch

     

  • FaxxerFaxxer Member Posts: 3,247

    I admit i've only skimmed this article, but it caught my eye....

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

     

    "Editor's note: Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University. A Libertarian, he was one of 166 academic economists who signed a letter to congressional leaders last week opposing the government bailout plan.

    "

     

  • DailyBuzzDailyBuzz Member Posts: 2,306
    Originally posted by Faxxer



    your two videos are so damning to the democrats...they have to be gearing up for a major media blitz with their lib friends in the press to lie and smear this into the republican's fault zone... typical.

     

    The democrats clearly don't have time to take this on right now. They are way too busy apologizing because the wicked witch of the west kicked some republican crybabies in the shin.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by DailyBuzz

    Originally posted by Faxxer



    your two videos are so damning to the democrats...they have to be gearing up for a major media blitz with their lib friends in the press to lie and smear this into the republican's fault zone... typical.

     

    The democrats clearly don't have time to take this on right now. They are way too busy apologizing because the wicked witch of the west kicked some republican crybabies in the shin.

    The wicked witch also kicked 95 of her own "crybabies" in the shins as well.  Open your eyes,  frank, pelosi, and kennedy all need to step down right now. ask marcy kuptur what she thinks about it ...

    Now why wasn't Kaptur the one running for president here? I mean seriously.. If an election was held right now, she would win in a landslide against everyone else.

  • DailyBuzzDailyBuzz Member Posts: 2,306
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by DailyBuzz 
    I'd agree if it were only the businesses that were perpetrating fraud that went down. However, all businesses are going to be affected.


    So, do you think for this reason they should be bailed out? There are no consequences.

    Yes. I think this is precisely the reason they should be bailed out. This credit freeze will tank even those who didn't overextend and had no involvement in predatory lending. It will devastate IRAs and put hundreds of thousands out of work. All I can say is thank god that Bush never was allowed to privatize social security, else my grandparents might have been moving in with me by this time next year.

    And, do you not understand that many of the "yes" votes, both democrats and republicans alike, are going against their constituents wishes. The politicians are forgetting their duty. They are voting what they think is best, not what the people want. Over 50% of the constituents polled stated they did not want the bailout package.

    Indeed I do. I can only applaud their effort to help those unaware that they need help. Trying to circumvent a catastrophe is a thankless job.

    Who do you think is going to pay for this? Do you think the government has a surplus of $700 billion lying around? There was already a $400+billion deficit in the budget. That did not include the $50billion stimulus package. It does not include the additional stimulus payment the democrats want to issue. It does not include the inflation which will be caused by the additional $630billion the Fed pumped into the markets. That only devalues our dollar more.

    How do you think this will be paid? It will be financed by foreign entities. This country will go further and further into debt leaving one valuable resource we will have to pay it off. Land. My children, and their children, will be paying for this for the rest of their lives.

     I concede that all the scary things you have listed will happen. Now, what is your assessment of what will happen if we do nothing? You can ignore it if you want, but it won't go away. All that will go away is jobs, homes, and businesses.

    My ass is covered. I'll be selling bibles and booze. How are you planning for your future?

     

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    My future is secure. I live below my means. I have no "debt".  I am against this bailout because it is fraud. Those that supported it have LIED TO US. They are in this for their personal gain, that is it. They don't give a rats behind about american jobs, business or what happens to these families, all they care about is what is in it for them, and what it means for them. Kaptur was right, You disagree with her? These people need to be prosecuted not "bailed out" and the help that we give needs to be to the people that were victims of this fraud. We can build new companies, we can rebuild our economy, but we need to do it without the people who caused this mess and are only trying to cover up what they have done. Hell there are so many unemployed right now, I am sure we can find some responsible people to step up to do this right. We just need to stop looking to the people who betrayed us to find a solution and put our futures, our economy, our jobs into the hands of someone who is responsible enough to keep them safe rather than those who gambled them all away. covering a tower that is destined to fall with bandaids does not fix the tower, it needs a strong foundation.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by deviliscious


    My future is secure. I live below my means. I have no "debt"


     

    That is how I feel. If people lose their homes and their assets for overextending themselves, then that is their problem. Not mine.

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