I havent seen anything online either, but barnes and noble carries the magazine I speak of. The issue this month has a mini MMO magazine inside of it and there is an article on it.
So, I take it you have the article on hand, or have read it? If so, why aren't you spilling the beans? As far as I can tell, Total PC Gaming is a UK-based magazine, so all of us sorry US gamers are stuck wondering what the heck you're talking about
Why are people still calling it KOTOR? Its called the Old Republic......
The Old Republic was only mentioned in a survey, so it could be just a code name. People know KOTOR, so they are more comfortable using it. Thats why people are still calling it KOTOR.
The Old Republic MMO could take place in the KOTOR era or in the last years of the Republic during the Clone Wars which seems more probable since the Clone Wars is George Lucas baby so Im thinking its during that time...
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
The Old Republic MMO could take place in the KOTOR era or in the last years of the Republic during the Clone Wars which seems more probable since the Clone Wars is George Lucas baby so Im thinking its during that time...
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
and Deacon, it seems at last we are getting what we want
10 DAYS... i cant believe i am cheking this every friggin day since march 2006 and lots of arguments discussions rumors thousands and millions of posts, hopes dreams wishes opininons...
and 10 DAYS! OMG
and 1 question: Anybody have anyidea if we can watch or listen or check this announcement on 21st, LIVE on the web ?
The Old Republic MMO could take place in the KOTOR era or in the last years of the Republic during the Clone Wars which seems more probable since the Clone Wars is George Lucas baby so Im thinking its during that time...
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
I would have to agree that the Mandalorian War era would be the better of choices. It would offer greater variety in factions, gear, and skills. Would also readily facilitate PvP as there would already be warring factions.
The Old Republic MMO could take place in the KOTOR era or in the last years of the Republic during the Clone Wars which seems more probable since the Clone Wars is George Lucas baby so Im thinking its during that time...
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
I would have to agree that the Mandalorian War era would be the better of choices. It would offer greater variety in factions, gear, and skills. Would also readily facilitate PvP as there would already be warring factions.
The Mandalorian War would be really cool. Ever since hearing the stories of Canderous Ordo from KOTOR 1. I've always wonder what it was like. Its sorta like when I first saw the original Star Wars movie back in the '80s with The Clone Wars. Yeah I was born a year after the original Star Wars was released. So I didn't see it for the first time until I was like 5 or some where around there.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
ll try to stop by the barnes and noble that I read the article at tomorrow and snap a picture of it. I dont have a scanner so my digi cam is the best I can do for ya.
ll try to stop by the barnes and noble that I read the article at tomorrow and snap a picture of it. I dont have a scanner so my digi cam is the best I can do for ya.
That would be most awesome and most appreciated Teganx
PS - 9 Days!
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
A lot of people are hoping this game will be Star Wars Galaxies 2.0... a big ol' sandbox...
I really want it to be a SANDBOX/Traditional MMORPG Hybrid... an evolution of both, really:
-MASSIVE PVP that makes SENSE and MATTERS, driven by the two 'largest factions' [Jedi/Republic VS Sith/Mandalorians for example]. Perhaps when a certain system is under one faction's control, anyone belonging to that faction has access to certain quests, can enjoy services at discount prices, etc. Something so it matters, and makes sense rather than just some sort of DEATHMATCH.
-PVP friendly dueling [that includes gunslingers too of course]. Sometimes, you just want to have a go with a friend or set up a small skirmish.
-Fully realized worlds to explore freely, providing you with all the freedoms of a SANDBOX like SWG... BUT full of great quests and characters.
-Quests to MATTER for more than just a means of getting some sort of reward. Sort of like 'Role Playing Quests' rather than your typical laundry list of CHORES. I want adventure, not boring repetition. I want my decisions to matter some and affect the way the universe will view me, either through alignment or factions.
-A great skill/leveling system which is much more in depth but and also more intuitive than what we have so far
-'Twitch' Combat preferably, where skill actually matters, and your level/skill level of character using certain weapons are just 'bonuses' to player skill.
-SPACE travel, exploration and combat. It's Star Wars, it's a must. And it needs to be quality at that. It would also be great if players can hitch rides on other people's ships or become 'pirate ship crews' or whatever they wish to do with their vessel. Personally, I think owning a spaceship is so essential that it could very easily serve as 'PLAYER HOUSING' like in KOTOR 1 & 2
-Leisurely/Social activites: Buy/Build a Pod Racer or Swoop Bike, enter tournaments to win prizes... Play Pazzac and gamble your credits away if you wish, trying to get lucky. CANTINA's that actually matter and serve as social hubs with mini-games and such
-Excellent character customization with pre and post character creation options
-Player Owned Properties/Businesses would be awesome as well. For players to open their own shop or cantina in a player made town would just be gold for all the crafters out there, which brings me to my next bullet...
-INTERESTING AND FUN CRAFTING SYSTEM. I've never enjoyed crafting in any MMORPG yet, but I know a lot of people LOVED the SWG system
-A MAIN STORY that evolves with your choices and thus doesn't end up being the same experience as others are having.
...I'll stop here cuz I'm kind of rambling like I've got a list of demands... but if this sounds 'way too huge and impossible' than maybe we're not ready to make a Star Wars MMORPG... because all of these things 'are Star Wars'. It's Big.
Go big or go home right? Hope BioWare went big...
SHOULD BioWare fail to deliver [and mind you it doesn't have to do this to succeed, this is just a small portion of my wish list], there are a few MMORPG's which offer some depth: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and EARTHRISE are hopefuls willing to challenge the cookie-cutter syndrome.
For now, I'm stickin' to my blasters and gunnin for BioWare to pull off an awesome MMORPG.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
I totally agree. I mean I know the glowstick army [Jedi/Dark Jedi, Sith maybe even Krath... or Jedi Covenant if it's way back enough] will obviously be pretty huge if they allow anyone to make such a character.
Personally, I'd love to play a spy or some sort of Han Solo type rogue smuggler who sometimes chooses to help the 'good guys' and sometimes works for the 'bad guys' [Such as the Syndicate]... y'know... wherever the deal is sweetest
Point being that there are a lot more fun things to play as in the Star Wars universe than JUST the Force Weilders... my first character will not be a Force user no matter what. Gimme a good blaster at my side
As for the game being a 'groundbreaking interactive product', I realize they didn't want to give away exactly what it is.... so they worded it thusly... BUT if you're going to call it such a thing, it definitely SHOULD be something special and not just an attempt to Out-WoW WoW [I saw someone say that before and thought it was genius hehe] with a Star Wars skin.
I'm sure that the features of World of Warcraft which made the game so popular [of which like 90% were just 'inspired by previous MMORPG's, but done well] will make an appearance in this new game... but there has GOT to be more to it than that.
Pressure is on for them to deliver big...
i personally hope they leave jedi out of it, except for npcs. players shouldnt be able to be one.
why would you leave jedi out of the game..thats like having a batman game and not being able to play as batman..there is many other classes to choose from..mandolorins, sith, bounty hunters, droid, smugglers, commandos. i would be one of the people not playing a jedi., maybe a sith but definitely a commando.
I got props on MMO REPORT I was just sittin back watchin the MMO Report as I do every week, suddenly I hear 'DEACONSTRUCTED' and I was like, damn sweet. I just pointed them in the direction hehe. Thanks Casey.
I got props on MMO REPORT I was just sittin back watchin the MMO Report as I do every week, suddenly I hear 'DEACONSTRUCTED' and I was like, damn sweet. I just pointed them in the direction hehe. Thanks Casey. http://www.g4tv.com/thepile/videos/29218/The_MMO_Report_Thursday_October_9th.html@4:22, BioWare/Lec project is brought up.
Congratz. I watch The MMO Report every week too, but when I watched the Oct. 9th episode. I never made the connection, when Casey said your name, lol.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
Originally posted by purewitz Congratz. I watch The MMO Report every week too, but when I watched the Oct. 9th episode. I never made the connection, when Casey said your name, lol.
Thanks mate I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Originally posted by purewitz Congratz. I watch The MMO Report every week too, but when I watched the Oct. 9th episode. I never made the connection, when Casey said your name, lol.
Thanks mate I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home
hope we all find a home in the new SW game, but i hope you guys arent thinking this game will be like SWG, it wont. None of that is Biowares style, and i while i dont know for sure, i would bet Bush's govt salary that this game will not be like SWG, but it doesnt mean it wont be a great game!
Originally posted by purewitz Congratz. I watch The MMO Report every week too, but when I watched the Oct. 9th episode. I never made the connection, when Casey said your name, lol.
Thanks mate I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home
hope we all find a home in the new SW game, but i hope you guys arent thinking this game will be like SWG, it wont. None of that is Biowares style, and i while i dont know for sure, i would bet Bush's govt salary that this game will not be like SWG, but it doesnt mean it wont be a great game!
As long as its a Star Wars game, I'm in.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
I don't remember anyone catching this article in September:
September 16, 2008
AGDC: BioWare's Schubert On Why The MMO Endgame Matters
Damion Schubert, lead combat designer for BioWare Austin, argues that your endgame – what happens when MMO players have finished all the lower level quests and “made it” in the game universe – realizes the true potential of MMOs.
“People talk about massively multiplayer online games – whenever they gravitate to one of these games, they always gravitate to one of the big ideas,” says Schubert. “What would happen if you could burn down another guild? What would happen if you had a boss that needed 25 people to kill? What if you had a battle that was 100 ships versus 100 ships?”
“The most important thing about your endgame, about elder gameplay, is that it’s one of the few things in your games that’s actually massive. And at the end of the day, that’s what we’re talking about here.”
“Whenever you’re talking about things with your producers, (the endgame) looks like something to cut,” he says, “because maybe nobody will even get to that level. I think a lot of producers underestimate what happens at the endgame.”
It’s commonly said that in World of Warcraft, the game starts at level 70. That’s what Elder gameplay is all about. “It represents the third act of the series,” says Schubert. “You’re taking whatever you built inside the gameplay experience, and you’re applying it to something that’s interesting and challenging - you’re at the apex of your character’s development.”
Schubert says that most MMOs are pretty easy, most of the time. “It’s like popping bubblewrap. It’s low-investment activities.”
The endgame, he says, often represents the game's true challenge.
Sense Of History
History, legacy, and lore is important to players, Schubert says, but not necessarily the history of the game world. More specifically, he means the social history of the game. "When my raiding guild killed [a certain boss] in World of Warcraft, we were the first to do it, and a cutscene was going to be activated, and by the time we went to turn in the quest, there were 250-300 people just standing around waiting for us to turn in the quest. People feel like they want to be part of that history,” Schubert maintains.
Aside from the fact that the endgame represents the true massiveness of an MMO, “The other most important thing about elder gameplay is that it occupies the time, and keeps the investment, of your most devoted customers. If we start with the maxim that it costs 10 times as much to get a new player as it does to keep an existing player, which is a pretty standard marketing maxim,” then you should cater to those people, he says. They’re important people to the game, and they need something to do.
Territorial Control
One major endgame scenario is territorial control, which is popular because it’s cheaper, both for players and designers.
“One important thing in territorial games is respawn and attrition,” says Schubtert. “How long does it take for a player to get back to the fight?” Designers need to make it so that the balance can change properly such that through attrition someone can lose their respawn points or graveyards. You also don’t want to have players spending the majority of their time running back to the battle.
“You don’t have to have a political map,” he says, “but if you don’t, you’re stupid. The thing is a newbie can see these maps, and understand what’s happening.”
Looking at WWII online, you can see how territory changes hands from day to day on the game’s front page. “This sells your endgame. It makes people want to come to it, and acts as advertising.”
Six Rules Of Endgame
Schubert outlined his six overarching endgame rules as such:
1 - Player versus player endgames always excite the imagination more than player versus environment endgames.
2 - Players aren’t as hardcore as they think they are.
3 - 5% of your population can destroy the other 95%.
4 - Teamwork and numbers dominate.
5 - Fairness matters more than in PVE.
6 - Losing repeatedly sucks.
“If your endgame is PVP, you need to think about how PVP is introduced to characters at the low levels,” Schubert cautions. “If players decide along the way to the endgame that they don’t like your PVP, they will decide the endgame is not for them.” Argues that you should protect players more at the lower level, so they have a positive PVP experience.
“People don’t pay money to suck. People do not want to pay $15 a month to be the Washington Generals.” This is something he learned when making Shadowbane – “the winners now had lots of resources and the city could thrive, and the losers had nothing. So what happened is eventually the losers stopped logging on, and the winners eventually had nothing to fight.”
“We had one server where one guild was so in control, that they banned a player class so they’d have somebody to fight,” said Schubert. Players woke up in the morning and found that they were “wanted.”
The solution, he says, is to be able to hit a button, in the game (so to speak) to indicate that one group of players have won, and that they can begin again.
Raid Encounters – PVE
“My experience with raids is mostly through playing,” Schubert admits, “so this is all theoretical mumbo jumbo, but I look for patterns.”
Many claim that only a very small percentage of WoW players raid, but research found that “more than half of the level 70 characters have a piece of raid loot on their character. When they reach level 70, they don’t want to stop, and they at least give raiding a try.”
A raid encounter is “a Mario boss,” he says, “only with 25-40 people.” The puzzle is designed for that amount of people. With Mario, there are a number of things he can do, and you know what those are. “The problem with raid encounters is you don’t know what everyone can do.” You try to design raid encounters that require a mix, but you don’t know who’s going to show up. Players have certain tools, but not everyone has everything.
In a game like Everquest 2, a boss can manipulate players via the player’s magic pool, because everyone has it. Positioning is another common element. “The reason positioning is so heavily used,” he says, “is that it’s a tool everybody has. Everybody can determine a position.”
Casual players are an important consideration as well. “How many people can die in your fight before the whole thing falls apart is directly correlated to how casual-friendly that game is. Husbands, wives, girlfriends, are all bringing more casual people,” says Schubert.
WoW is approachable in this way, but if only one person has to die in order to fail a raid, it’s less likely you’ll bring those casuals, and it’ll be more hardcore oriented. This has difficult social implications.
Considerations When Designing Endgames
It should be content-heavy, while watching for overpowered classes. Repetition is a concern - how many times do people have to kill the same boss? “If you have a really really really long raid dungeon, players are going to kill the first boss a whole lot more than the last boss,” Schubert advises, “so you should consider how you reward them for that.”
The bench – if you need 25 to raid, you need to have 35 people in case your main tank is sick or you lose your healer. But this also means you have a lot of people sitting around doing nothing – “Most people aren’t going to sit on the bench forever,” Schubert says. “This creates real politics that is a headache for your guildmaster to manage.”
Considerations For Endgame Physicality
Technology – can your server handle 100 people versus 100 people?
How do you test it? “In Shadowbane, we redid our siege system a month and a half before it went live,” Schubert says. “We basically had one iteration of our game, played for a month and a half before we went live. Is that enough time to determine whether a game is balanced, fair, and stable? From experience, I can tell you no, no, and no.”
Fragility – if the endgame depends on a guild, and there are key players, the guild may be crippled when they lose that player.
Critical mass – what happens if your game doesn’t get enough people for it to take off? Or more likely, what happens if you lose people, and you don’t have enough for a raid or an endgame?
Interface – endgame interfaces tend to look much less like the interface of a lower level game. You can’t play endgame of World of Warcraft with the newbie interface.
Homework – “every time you add a consumable – a potion, or a stim-pack – you have to think about how you’re creating homework players will see as necessary before they get into that raid,” says Schubert. Players will be grinding to get things they think they need for the raid.
Guild management – managing a guild is difficult and fiddly, says Schubert. “For the love of god, will someone please design an MMO that gives these guys the tools they need?”
Matchmaking – “if you can get people who are likeminded together, your endgame is going to be stickier.”
Final Words
“Do massively multiplayer games need an endgame?” poses Schubert. “I argue yes. Massive is your selling proposition, and the endgame does that. That’s the stuff that captures the imagination.”
Well not to rain on your parade Deacon, but when push comes to shove, all these new MMO's coming out have no end game. There is a good reason for that too. Time and money. Investors don't want to wait eons while you get the end game working, hence all the games these days ship without one.
AoC made the huge mistake of rapidly shifting everyone to a non existent end game with a braindead leveling scheme. Hence the game has somewhat self destructed and who knows if it will ever recover.
Although War has somewhat of an end game implemented, but it is all pvp. If that is not your hot spot you are SOL for an end game there. Personally I got tired of retaking the same keep for the 100th time in DAoC, so I just skipped War entirely. Blizzard has the same problem with raiding, it can get overly boring also.
Bioware might surprise us in this area, but in today's environment, I don't have a lot of confidence they will.
Well not to rain on your parade Deacon, but when push comes to shove, all these new MMO's coming out have no end game. .... Bioware might surprise us in this area, but in today's environment, I don't have a lot of confidence they will.
No worries hehe I'll be confident enough for the both of us then . BioWare has NEVER been a 'half-assed ship it now' kind of company. I doubt they would do that with the biggest gable of their business lifetime thus far.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Only 5 more days til the 21st people, I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl lol. No matter what you think the LucasArts/BioWare project is going to be. You gotta admit one thing, its gonna be the biggest news of the Fall and maybe of the whole year.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
give an eye to this. all storm will break out there at 21st
After reading above article, I checked 'swtor.com' domain information. I found the owner changed it's name server information on 15 Oct.
Name Server: NS1.SWTOR.COM
Name Server: NS2.SWTOR.COM
Name Server: NS3.SWTOR.COM
As you can see, now it has it's own name servers! Usually they don't have their own name servers unless they don't expect massive concurrent internet access. Even more, there are three servers. Typically we set two name servers to make sure the domain reachable even if the first one is down. Yes, I'm 100% sure that the owner wants stable and reliable internet service at all costs. Then, for what? Can you imagin none other than MMO in this situation?
Comments
So, I take it you have the article on hand, or have read it? If so, why aren't you spilling the beans? As far as I can tell, Total PC Gaming is a UK-based magazine, so all of us sorry US gamers are stuck wondering what the heck you're talking about
C'mon man! Post some info!
Happen to remember specifics or even general questions from this survey, Tillamook?
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
The Old Republic was only mentioned in a survey, so it could be just a code name. People know KOTOR, so they are more comfortable using it. Thats why people are still calling it KOTOR.
The Old Republic MMO could take place in the KOTOR era or in the last years of the Republic during the Clone Wars which seems more probable since the Clone Wars is George Lucas baby so Im thinking its during that time...
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
and Deacon, it seems at last we are getting what we want
10 DAYS... i cant believe i am cheking this every friggin day since march 2006
and lots of arguments discussions rumors thousands and millions of posts, hopes dreams wishes opininons...
and 10 DAYS! OMG
and 1 question: Anybody have anyidea if we can watch or listen or check this announcement on 21st, LIVE on the web ?
People in armor (that looks like composite armor from SWG) wearing capes and handling glowbats. I hope that won't happen.
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
I would have to agree that the Mandalorian War era would be the better of choices. It would offer greater variety in factions, gear, and skills. Would also readily facilitate PvP as there would already be warring factions.
as long as they make it and its good. i dont care what era its in. has to be better than SWG.
I agree about The Clone Wars, I posted on it awhile back in this thread. Plus it makes sense knowing Lucas' marketing tactics.
The only thing about that to me is... there really weren't that many DARK JEDI running around at the time. There were two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. And then a wannabe Sith in Asaaj... but it doesn't really fascilitate a strong 'darksider' playerbase quite as well as even more historic parts of Star Wars. Not to say they COULDN'T twist the story some to allow dark jedi, but as is, there really weren't so many running around... unless they play the 'You were a Jedi of the the Order, only to be corrupted by Count Dooku and have joined him!' card...
Personally, I think The Mandalorian Wars would be the perfect era.
THE SITH with many trying to be the big bad boss, lots of dark jedi running around AND the Mandalorian's both trying to conquer the galaxy, while the Republic army and the Jedi are facing off against them trying to protect the galaxy - and then the criminal Syndicate and everyone else stuck in between the two, pretty much working for whatever suits their interest at the time.
PS - 10 DAYS!!!
I would have to agree that the Mandalorian War era would be the better of choices. It would offer greater variety in factions, gear, and skills. Would also readily facilitate PvP as there would already be warring factions.
The Mandalorian War would be really cool. Ever since hearing the stories of Canderous Ordo from KOTOR 1. I've always wonder what it was like. Its sorta like when I first saw the original Star Wars movie back in the '80s with The Clone Wars. Yeah I was born a year after the original Star Wars was released. So I didn't see it for the first time until I was like 5 or some where around there.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
ll try to stop by the barnes and noble that I read the article at tomorrow and snap a picture of it. I dont have a scanner so my digi cam is the best I can do for ya.
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
That would be most awesome and most appreciated Teganx
PS - 9 Days!
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
A lot of people are hoping this game will be Star Wars Galaxies 2.0... a big ol' sandbox...
I really want it to be a SANDBOX/Traditional MMORPG Hybrid... an evolution of both, really:
-MASSIVE PVP that makes SENSE and MATTERS, driven by the two 'largest factions' [Jedi/Republic VS Sith/Mandalorians for example]. Perhaps when a certain system is under one faction's control, anyone belonging to that faction has access to certain quests, can enjoy services at discount prices, etc. Something so it matters, and makes sense rather than just some sort of DEATHMATCH.
-PVP friendly dueling [that includes gunslingers too of course]. Sometimes, you just want to have a go with a friend or set up a small skirmish.
-Fully realized worlds to explore freely, providing you with all the freedoms of a SANDBOX like SWG... BUT full of great quests and characters.
-Quests to MATTER for more than just a means of getting some sort of reward. Sort of like 'Role Playing Quests' rather than your typical laundry list of CHORES. I want adventure, not boring repetition. I want my decisions to matter some and affect the way the universe will view me, either through alignment or factions.
-A great skill/leveling system which is much more in depth but and also more intuitive than what we have so far
-'Twitch' Combat preferably, where skill actually matters, and your level/skill level of character using certain weapons are just 'bonuses' to player skill.
-SPACE travel, exploration and combat. It's Star Wars, it's a must. And it needs to be quality at that. It would also be great if players can hitch rides on other people's ships or become 'pirate ship crews' or whatever they wish to do with their vessel. Personally, I think owning a spaceship is so essential that it could very easily serve as 'PLAYER HOUSING' like in KOTOR 1 & 2
-Leisurely/Social activites: Buy/Build a Pod Racer or Swoop Bike, enter tournaments to win prizes... Play Pazzac and gamble your credits away if you wish, trying to get lucky. CANTINA's that actually matter and serve as social hubs with mini-games and such
-Excellent character customization with pre and post character creation options
-Player Owned Properties/Businesses would be awesome as well. For players to open their own shop or cantina in a player made town would just be gold for all the crafters out there, which brings me to my next bullet...
-INTERESTING AND FUN CRAFTING SYSTEM. I've never enjoyed crafting in any MMORPG yet, but I know a lot of people LOVED the SWG system
-A MAIN STORY that evolves with your choices and thus doesn't end up being the same experience as others are having.
...I'll stop here cuz I'm kind of rambling like I've got a list of demands... but if this sounds 'way too huge and impossible' than maybe we're not ready to make a Star Wars MMORPG... because all of these things 'are Star Wars'. It's Big.
Go big or go home right? Hope BioWare went big...
SHOULD BioWare fail to deliver [and mind you it doesn't have to do this to succeed, this is just a small portion of my wish list], there are a few MMORPG's which offer some depth: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online and EARTHRISE are hopefuls willing to challenge the cookie-cutter syndrome.
For now, I'm stickin' to my blasters and gunnin for BioWare to pull off an awesome MMORPG.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
I totally agree. I mean I know the glowstick army [Jedi/Dark Jedi, Sith maybe even Krath... or Jedi Covenant if it's way back enough] will obviously be pretty huge if they allow anyone to make such a character.
Personally, I'd love to play a spy or some sort of Han Solo type rogue smuggler who sometimes chooses to help the 'good guys' and sometimes works for the 'bad guys' [Such as the Syndicate]... y'know... wherever the deal is sweetest
Point being that there are a lot more fun things to play as in the Star Wars universe than JUST the Force Weilders... my first character will not be a Force user no matter what. Gimme a good blaster at my side
As for the game being a 'groundbreaking interactive product', I realize they didn't want to give away exactly what it is.... so they worded it thusly... BUT if you're going to call it such a thing, it definitely SHOULD be something special and not just an attempt to Out-WoW WoW [I saw someone say that before and thought it was genius hehe] with a Star Wars skin.
I'm sure that the features of World of Warcraft which made the game so popular [of which like 90% were just 'inspired by previous MMORPG's, but done well] will make an appearance in this new game... but there has GOT to be more to it than that.
Pressure is on for them to deliver big...
i personally hope they leave jedi out of it, except for npcs. players shouldnt be able to be one.
why would you leave jedi out of the game..thats like having a batman game and not being able to play as batman..there is many other classes to choose from..mandolorins, sith, bounty hunters, droid, smugglers, commandos. i would be one of the people not playing a jedi., maybe a sith but definitely a commando.
I got props on MMO REPORT
I was just sittin back watchin the MMO Report as I do every week, suddenly I hear 'DEACONSTRUCTED' and I was like, damn sweet. I just pointed them in the direction hehe. Thanks Casey.
http://www.g4tv.com/thepile/videos/29218/The_MMO_Report_Thursday_October_9th.html @4:22, BioWare/Lec project is brought up.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Congratz. I watch The MMO Report every week too, but when I watched the Oct. 9th episode. I never made the connection, when Casey said your name, lol.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
Thanks mate
I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home 
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Thanks mate
I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home 
hope we all find a home in the new SW game, but i hope you guys arent thinking this game will be like SWG, it wont. None of that is Biowares style, and i while i dont know for sure, i would bet Bush's govt salary that this game will not be like SWG, but it doesnt mean it wont be a great game!
Thanks mate
I submitted the news because I know Casey the host is REALLY hoping for an awesome new Star Wars MMORPG too - I wasn't expecting him to mention me though. So yeah that was just a sweet lil bonus hehe. I didn't submit a name so I guess he just went with my e-mail but still it's cool. Hope we all get a Star Wars MMORPG we can call home 
hope we all find a home in the new SW game, but i hope you guys arent thinking this game will be like SWG, it wont. None of that is Biowares style, and i while i dont know for sure, i would bet Bush's govt salary that this game will not be like SWG, but it doesnt mean it wont be a great game!
As long as its a Star Wars game, I'm in.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
I don't remember anyone catching this article in September:
September 16, 2008
AGDC: BioWare's Schubert On Why The MMO Endgame Matters
Damion Schubert, lead combat designer for BioWare Austin, argues that your endgame – what happens when MMO players have finished all the lower level quests and “made it” in the game universe – realizes the true potential of MMOs.
“People talk about massively multiplayer online games – whenever they gravitate to one of these games, they always gravitate to one of the big ideas,” says Schubert. “What would happen if you could burn down another guild? What would happen if you had a boss that needed 25 people to kill? What if you had a battle that was 100 ships versus 100 ships?”
“The most important thing about your endgame, about elder gameplay, is that it’s one of the few things in your games that’s actually massive. And at the end of the day, that’s what we’re talking about here.”
“Whenever you’re talking about things with your producers, (the endgame) looks like something to cut,” he says, “because maybe nobody will even get to that level. I think a lot of producers underestimate what happens at the endgame.”
It’s commonly said that in World of Warcraft, the game starts at level 70. That’s what Elder gameplay is all about. “It represents the third act of the series,” says Schubert. “You’re taking whatever you built inside the gameplay experience, and you’re applying it to something that’s interesting and challenging - you’re at the apex of your character’s development.”
Schubert says that most MMOs are pretty easy, most of the time. “It’s like popping bubblewrap. It’s low-investment activities.”
The endgame, he says, often represents the game's true challenge.
Sense Of History
History, legacy, and lore is important to players, Schubert says, but not necessarily the history of the game world. More specifically, he means the social history of the game. "When my raiding guild killed [a certain boss] in World of Warcraft, we were the first to do it, and a cutscene was going to be activated, and by the time we went to turn in the quest, there were 250-300 people just standing around waiting for us to turn in the quest. People feel like they want to be part of that history,” Schubert maintains.
Aside from the fact that the endgame represents the true massiveness of an MMO, “The other most important thing about elder gameplay is that it occupies the time, and keeps the investment, of your most devoted customers. If we start with the maxim that it costs 10 times as much to get a new player as it does to keep an existing player, which is a pretty standard marketing maxim,” then you should cater to those people, he says. They’re important people to the game, and they need something to do.
Territorial Control
One major endgame scenario is territorial control, which is popular because it’s cheaper, both for players and designers.
“One important thing in territorial games is respawn and attrition,” says Schubtert. “How long does it take for a player to get back to the fight?” Designers need to make it so that the balance can change properly such that through attrition someone can lose their respawn points or graveyards. You also don’t want to have players spending the majority of their time running back to the battle.
“You don’t have to have a political map,” he says, “but if you don’t, you’re stupid. The thing is a newbie can see these maps, and understand what’s happening.”
Looking at WWII online, you can see how territory changes hands from day to day on the game’s front page. “This sells your endgame. It makes people want to come to it, and acts as advertising.”
Six Rules Of Endgame
Schubert outlined his six overarching endgame rules as such:
1 - Player versus player endgames always excite the imagination more than player versus environment endgames.
2 - Players aren’t as hardcore as they think they are.
3 - 5% of your population can destroy the other 95%.
4 - Teamwork and numbers dominate.
5 - Fairness matters more than in PVE.
6 - Losing repeatedly sucks.
“If your endgame is PVP, you need to think about how PVP is introduced to characters at the low levels,” Schubert cautions. “If players decide along the way to the endgame that they don’t like your PVP, they will decide the endgame is not for them.” Argues that you should protect players more at the lower level, so they have a positive PVP experience.
“People don’t pay money to suck. People do not want to pay $15 a month to be the Washington Generals.” This is something he learned when making Shadowbane – “the winners now had lots of resources and the city could thrive, and the losers had nothing. So what happened is eventually the losers stopped logging on, and the winners eventually had nothing to fight.”
“We had one server where one guild was so in control, that they banned a player class so they’d have somebody to fight,” said Schubert. Players woke up in the morning and found that they were “wanted.”
The solution, he says, is to be able to hit a button, in the game (so to speak) to indicate that one group of players have won, and that they can begin again.
Raid Encounters – PVE
“My experience with raids is mostly through playing,” Schubert admits, “so this is all theoretical mumbo jumbo, but I look for patterns.”
Many claim that only a very small percentage of WoW players raid, but research found that “more than half of the level 70 characters have a piece of raid loot on their character. When they reach level 70, they don’t want to stop, and they at least give raiding a try.”
A raid encounter is “a Mario boss,” he says, “only with 25-40 people.” The puzzle is designed for that amount of people. With Mario, there are a number of things he can do, and you know what those are. “The problem with raid encounters is you don’t know what everyone can do.” You try to design raid encounters that require a mix, but you don’t know who’s going to show up. Players have certain tools, but not everyone has everything.
In a game like Everquest 2, a boss can manipulate players via the player’s magic pool, because everyone has it. Positioning is another common element. “The reason positioning is so heavily used,” he says, “is that it’s a tool everybody has. Everybody can determine a position.”
Casual players are an important consideration as well. “How many people can die in your fight before the whole thing falls apart is directly correlated to how casual-friendly that game is. Husbands, wives, girlfriends, are all bringing more casual people,” says Schubert.
WoW is approachable in this way, but if only one person has to die in order to fail a raid, it’s less likely you’ll bring those casuals, and it’ll be more hardcore oriented. This has difficult social implications.
Considerations When Designing Endgames
It should be content-heavy, while watching for overpowered classes. Repetition is a concern - how many times do people have to kill the same boss? “If you have a really really really long raid dungeon, players are going to kill the first boss a whole lot more than the last boss,” Schubert advises, “so you should consider how you reward them for that.”
The bench – if you need 25 to raid, you need to have 35 people in case your main tank is sick or you lose your healer. But this also means you have a lot of people sitting around doing nothing – “Most people aren’t going to sit on the bench forever,” Schubert says. “This creates real politics that is a headache for your guildmaster to manage.”
Considerations For Endgame Physicality
Technology – can your server handle 100 people versus 100 people?
How do you test it? “In Shadowbane, we redid our siege system a month and a half before it went live,” Schubert says. “We basically had one iteration of our game, played for a month and a half before we went live. Is that enough time to determine whether a game is balanced, fair, and stable? From experience, I can tell you no, no, and no.”
Fragility – if the endgame depends on a guild, and there are key players, the guild may be crippled when they lose that player.
Critical mass – what happens if your game doesn’t get enough people for it to take off? Or more likely, what happens if you lose people, and you don’t have enough for a raid or an endgame?
Interface – endgame interfaces tend to look much less like the interface of a lower level game. You can’t play endgame of World of Warcraft with the newbie interface.
Homework – “every time you add a consumable – a potion, or a stim-pack – you have to think about how you’re creating homework players will see as necessary before they get into that raid,” says Schubert. Players will be grinding to get things they think they need for the raid.
Guild management – managing a guild is difficult and fiddly, says Schubert. “For the love of god, will someone please design an MMO that gives these guys the tools they need?”
Matchmaking – “if you can get people who are likeminded together, your endgame is going to be stickier.”
Final Words
“Do massively multiplayer games need an endgame?” poses Schubert. “I argue yes. Massive is your selling proposition, and the endgame does that. That’s the stuff that captures the imagination.”
Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20235
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Well not to rain on your parade Deacon, but when push comes to shove, all these new MMO's coming out have no end game. There is a good reason for that too. Time and money. Investors don't want to wait eons while you get the end game working, hence all the games these days ship without one.
AoC made the huge mistake of rapidly shifting everyone to a non existent end game with a braindead leveling scheme. Hence the game has somewhat self destructed and who knows if it will ever recover.
Although War has somewhat of an end game implemented, but it is all pvp. If that is not your hot spot you are SOL for an end game there. Personally I got tired of retaking the same keep for the 100th time in DAoC, so I just skipped War entirely. Blizzard has the same problem with raiding, it can get overly boring also.
Bioware might surprise us in this area, but in today's environment, I don't have a lot of confidence they will.
No worries hehe I'll be confident enough for the both of us then
. BioWare has NEVER been a 'half-assed ship it now' kind of company. I doubt they would do that with the biggest gable of their business lifetime thus far.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Only 5 more days til the 21st people, I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl lol. No matter what you think the LucasArts/BioWare project is going to be. You gotta admit one thing, its gonna be the biggest news of the Fall and maybe of the whole year.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
PC GAMER PODCAST talks HOLIDAY ISSUE [which sounds awesome btw]:
BioWare/LEC Project Feature - click to listen [FF to 7:18 ]:
http://www.pcgamerpodcast.com/?p=219
Not really much on it at all but I'll be looking for the issue of PC gamer for sure...
3 More Days
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
http://swtor.bioware.com
give an eye to this. all storm will break out there at 21st
After reading above article, I checked 'swtor.com' domain information. I found the owner changed it's name server information on 15 Oct.
Name Server: NS1.SWTOR.COM
Name Server: NS2.SWTOR.COM
Name Server: NS3.SWTOR.COM
As you can see, now it has it's own name servers! Usually they don't have their own name servers unless they don't expect massive concurrent internet access. Even more, there are three servers. Typically we set two name servers to make sure the domain reachable even if the first one is down. Yes, I'm 100% sure that the owner wants stable and reliable internet service at all costs. Then, for what? Can you imagin none other than MMO in this situation?
I can't wait for HKO!