Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Bill is failing; DOW is falling...

I guess we could call this "interesting times."

«1

Comments

  • SlytheSlythe Member UncommonPosts: 952

    Yea I was just reading this - money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm

    "Like the Iraq war and patriot act, this bill is fueled by fear and haste," said Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas.

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

     i honestly dont mind doing nothing.

    lets have a media blackout for now to ease the flames and let the chips fall where they may. 

    my portfolio may take a hit but im willing to accept it. im definitely nowhere near any financial stocks.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358

    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.

    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

  • LibertasplzLibertasplz Member Posts: 221

    This is ouch territory for lots of people particularly those with 401K and IRA's tied into mutuals because you can't really escape the pain.

    This is a major redistribution of wealth.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Dekron


    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.
    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

     

    I believe such provisions have been on the books since the Nixon administration, and almost every president has made new, scarier executive orders to this effect.

    Either way, it all sucks.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron


    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.
    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

     

    I believe such provisions have been on the books since the Nixon administration, and almost every president has made new, scarier executive orders to this effect.

    Either way, it all sucks.

    His order expanded the ability to declare martial law and suspend elections.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron


    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.
    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

     

    I believe such provisions have been on the books since the Nixon administration, and almost every president has made new, scarier executive orders to this effect.

    Either way, it all sucks.

    His order expanded the ability to declare martial law and suspend elections.

    I hate to be a pain, but do you have a link that shows this to be the case?

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron


    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.
    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

     

    I believe such provisions have been on the books since the Nixon administration, and almost every president has made new, scarier executive orders to this effect.

    Either way, it all sucks.

    His order expanded the ability to declare martial law and suspend elections.

    I hate to be a pain, but do you have a link that shows this to be the case?

    It will take a bit. I will find the link for the order.

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

     viva la bush.

    get the hoses.

    suspend the elections until mccain leads in the polls.

    in other words, suspend the elections until the americans come to their senses.

    viva liberty!

    nobama!

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • GorairGorair Member Posts: 959

    This is one of the very few tmies in life where doing absolutely nothing seems to be right.

    Lets see where this all goes , you cant ever improve or learn  if you arent allowed to fall.

     

     

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Dekron


    I'm glad the bailout failed. It would make things worse in the long run. However, I am now waiting for Bush to declare martial law as he considers this a national crisis.
    Does anyone remember the executive order he passed last year stating the President can suspend national elections under a declaration of martial law? Scary.

     

    I believe such provisions have been on the books since the Nixon administration, and almost every president has made new, scarier executive orders to this effect.

    Either way, it all sucks.

    His order expanded the ability to declare martial law and suspend elections.

    I hate to be a pain, but do you have a link that shows this to be the case?

    It will take a bit. I will find the link for the order.

    I know how long these things can take; thanks for just trying though

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524

    Write off all debt.  Start over.  Rich and poor.  Clean slate.  Make new money and throw away the old.  Any other way will just make rich people richer and everyone else will still be in the crapper.

    Sorry.  The current state of affairs is making me angsty!   

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Signe


    Write off all debt.  Start over.  Rich and poor.  Clean slate.  Make new money and throw away the old.  Any other way will just make rich people richer and everyone else will still be in the crapper.
    Sorry.  The current state of affairs is making me angsty!   

     

    I believe pat Ropertson used to call that "Jubilee," which was my wife's pet name for the bailout plan

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Fishermage
    I know how long these things can take; thanks for just trying though

    Still looking. I actually went to the White House website to review all the executive orders. Interesting enough it appears there are many, many orders no longer listed. I am not sure what that means - are they absolved or are they hidden?

  • GorairGorair Member Posts: 959
    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Signe


    Write off all debt.  Start over.  Rich and poor.  Clean slate.  Make new money and throw away the old.  Any other way will just make rich people richer and everyone else will still be in the crapper.
    Sorry.  The current state of affairs is making me angsty!   

     

    I believe pat Ropertson used to call that "Jubilee," which was my wife's pet name for the bailout plan



     

    That could do nothing but drag the rest of the world down with us AND it still wont fix anything. Because the new money will have a value of nothing if no one respects it. Seriously just let everything settle and we will recover , its been worse before and we are still here.

     

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562

    Here's what I found. It needs follow-up and dconfirmation, and I'm flipping burgers and watching the news right now...

     

    Yes. Bush can do that. Bush has signed several "Executive Orders" to enact "laws" that did not come through Congress. Those "orders" greatly extend the President's power and are mostly uncontitutional.

    "In May 2007, Bush issued a major presidential National Security Directive (National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive NSPD 51/HSPD 20), which would suspend constitutional government and instate broad dictatorial powers under martial law in the case of a "Catastrophic Emergency" [note: the nature of a "catastrophic emergency is undefined and left to the president's discretion; clearly it could be either an outside attack or a natural disaster.]

    "On July 11, 2007, the CIA published its "National Intelligence Estimate" which pointed to an imminent Al Qaeda attack on America, a second 9/11 which, according to the terms of NSPD 51, would immediately be followed by the suspension of constitutional government and the instatement of martial law under the authority of the president and the vice-president.

    "NSPD 51 grants unprecedented powers to the Presidency and the Department of Homeland Security, overriding the foundations of Constitutional government. It allows the sitting president to declare a “national emergency” without Congressional approval. The implementation of NSPD 51 would lead to the de facto closing down of the Legislature and the militarization of justice and law enforcement.

    "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. . . ."

    "Were NSPD 51 to be invoked, Vice President Dick Cheney, who constitutes the real power behind the Executive, would essentially assume de facto dictatorial powers, circumventing both the US Congress and the Judiciary, while continuing to use President George W. Bush as a proxy figurehead."

     

    That gives the numbers of the orders though.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Gorair

    Originally posted by Fishermage

    Originally posted by Signe


    Write off all debt.  Start over.  Rich and poor.  Clean slate.  Make new money and throw away the old.  Any other way will just make rich people richer and everyone else will still be in the crapper.
    Sorry.  The current state of affairs is making me angsty!   

     

    I believe pat Ropertson used to call that "Jubilee," which was my wife's pet name for the bailout plan



     

    That could do nothing but drag the rest of the world down with us AND it still wont fix anything. Because the new money will have a value of nothing if no one respects it. Seriously just let everything settle and we will recover , its been worse before and we are still here.

     

    I tend to agree. I wish there were a better, easier way, but I don't see one. We really need to break up fannie and freddie, repeal a bunch of crappy laws, and return to sound money policies.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,358
    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Here's what I found. It needs follow-up and dconfirmation, and I'm flipping burgers and watching the news right now...

    That's it. I searched the executive orders list again and they are not there. That makes things a bit more curious.

  • FishermageFishermage Member Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Here's what I found. It needs follow-up and dconfirmation, and I'm flipping burgers and watching the news right now...

    That's it. I searched the executive orders list again and they are not there. That makes things a bit more curious.

    Creepy/curious, I'd say...

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Here's what I found. It needs follow-up and dconfirmation, and I'm flipping burgers and watching the news right now...

    That's it. I searched the executive orders list again and they are not there. That makes things a bit more curious.

    Alot of stuff that I was able to read a few days ago I can no longer find.  When I try to search things easily found a few days ago the links are all dead or  they are no longer comming up in searches.  Much of what I read from MSN searches is gone completely, and I was able to find vague stuff from google search. There is definately something curious going on right now. Are they deleting our internet?!!

     

  • BushMonkeyBushMonkey Member Posts: 1,406
    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Here's what I found. It needs follow-up and dconfirmation, and I'm flipping burgers and watching the news right now...

    That's it. I searched the executive orders list again and they are not there. That makes things a bit more curious.

    Alot of stuff that I was able to read a few days ago I can no longer find.  When I try to search things easily found a few days ago the links are all dead or  they are no longer comming up in searches.  Much of what I read from MSN searches is gone completely, and I was able to find vague stuff from google search. There is definately something curious going on right now. Are they deleting our internet?!!

     



     

    Kind of noticed a few  dead links myself the last few days also.  Wonder what's coming? October suprise?

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Member UncommonPosts: 2,154

    Yeah but if Donald can be trusted Oil is gana Plumit.

    And I honestly dont think Bush has the balls.

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    —Samuel Adams

  • Tuor7Tuor7 Member UncommonPosts: 950

    What's really crazy is that people are putting huge amounts of cash into T-Bonds at essentially 0% yield. That means that they are all but *giving* the government their money and that money, plus some tiny extra amount, will return to them when the T-Bonds' duration is complete.

    I suspect that things like 401(k)s are behind a lot of this. People have bought in so throughly to the Stock Market that they all view it as some sort of magical money making machine that will always make you money in the long run -- yeah, like magic.

    When something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Greed and lack of accountability do not make for a good outcome. Even if this bill is passed, things are in disarry. What caused the bubble to burst? Not the bad mortgage loans, but the simple fact that PEOPLE COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO BUY HOUSES.

    *Think* about that. When people couldn't afford the list price of most homes, the homes sat in the market. Their owners had come to *depend* on the fact that they could sell a home for more than they paid for it and make back their money and then some. Again the magic money making machine. Only wages didn't increase at the same rate as housing costs. Wages have remained flat for a long time. (The same thing is happening in higher education, BTW.)

    The glut of homes on the market led to a buyer's market, then to people being over-extended. Many people, particularly those who were in heavy credit card debt, had gone and take loans against the equity of their houses, thinking they could regain it by selling the house or by some other "magic" method. Others who never should've bought houses were unable to afford the payments when the interest rates on their ARMS jumped up.

    Was this whole thing manipulated from the shadows? Possibly. I think it could be done, though that doesn't mean it *was* done. At any rate, the results of this situation, and several other situations, are growing increasingly felt, and, I think, will only get worse. Time will tell whether or not I'm right.

  • TheFranchiseTheFranchise Member Posts: 241
    Originally posted by Tuor7
    I suspect that things like 401(k)s are behind a lot of this. People have bought in so throughly to the Stock Market that they all view it as some sort of magical money making machine that will always make you money in the long run -- yeah, like magic.

     

    I think Vallejo, California is the city I'm thinking of... it upped its ridiculous pension plans for various city workers like firefighters and police officers, etc, and it figured it could pay for the pensions based on an expectation that the stock market would go up x amount every year like it had been at the time.  Not sure if the city declared bankruptcy yet, but it's been thinking about it since it can't afford anything anymore.

    Just so many greedy, inept clowns in so many areas of government and finance, and they are finally being found out and their house of cards is crumbling.  Thank God for whatever divine intervention stopped this bailout from passing.  Too bad it still probably will a few weeks from now after it is slightly modified but probably still containing the ridiculous Section 8.

     

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457
    Originally posted by bluberryhaze


     i honestly dont mind doing nothing.
    lets have a media blackout for now to ease the flames and let the chips fall where they may. 
    my portfolio may take a hit but im willing to accept it. im definitely nowhere near any financial stocks.



     

    I am.

    I thought I was making a loan, but it turned out to be a donation.

    I've lost more money from all the bank write off's and devaluations this year than most people see in a lifetime. But it will come back..... it's only a question of time.

     

    On the other hand, I've been saving up a war chest of cash for just such a moment and I am buying into cheap banks like they are going out of fashion.

    Opportunities like this only come every few decades. Be ready for the next one.

Sign In or Register to comment.