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Star Wars Galaxies: Five Year Re-Review

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Comments

  • HozloffHozloff Member Posts: 193

    The best aspects/features of the game (and those that set this game apart from the rest) are those that have somewhow survived from PRE-CU, even though they were nerfed to hell under the Nancy "too much reading" McIntyre doctrine.

    This clearly shows the vision of the early dev team and how they were so ahead of their time.

  • EduardoASGEduardoASG Member Posts: 832

    nice review.

    pitty all the bad stuff overlaps the good stuff still lwft in swg.. 

     SoE still in charge btw, and you cannt forget what they did to the game and how they dealt with the players at the time.. in a complete showoff of costumer bashing never seen before in any gaming comunity.

    SOE totally ruinned the game wihtout caring for the players who didnt welcome the change, who saw all their hard work and fun ruinned one day to the next.

    I wont return to swg while SOE in charge.. thats for sure. actually i never played another SOE game too.. so thats part of the package bonus SOE got from me when they ruinned SWG.

    Aion, AoC, AC, AO, DDO, Eve, Eq2, GW, MW3, L1&2, RF, RIFT, SWG, SWTOR, TR, UO, WOW, WAR
  • AkumaDaimyoAkumaDaimyo Member Posts: 185

    Bioware is doing a KOTR MMO game. Star Wars Galaxies will probably be given the death blow when that happens. Let's hope Bioware doesn't screw it up.

  • ArcAngel3ArcAngel3 Member Posts: 2,931

    That was an enjoyable read, and it's obvious that a lot of effort went into trying to be balanced, fair and honest.  Very challenging with this game's history, and well done by the author in my view.

    One of the points that really stood out to me was this: "That said, the game itself remains one of, if not the, most unique endeavors in the short history of the MMORPG genre, and would do well to invest a bit of marketing effort in promoting itself as a thinking man's game rather than a clone of the combat-only orgies that are being churned out by virtually every development studio in the business. With deep customization options, unparalleled immersion and roleplay tools, and a PvE game that is built on player interaction and choice, Star Wars Galaxies is currently a decent alternative for those seeking a place to call virtual home, and is worth a look due to an array of unique features that set it apart from the newer, simpler games crowding the market."

    This really seems to refer to the vestiges of the pre-NGE game that remain.  On the other hand, the dull, repetitive, necessary questing that seems bolted onto the game, the plain HUD, the uninspiring pvp, the simplistic WoW clone combat, the replacement of a vibrant player economy with loot: these are all pure NGE.

    The review in parts reads to me like a review of two seperate games, and I guess that's really what it is.  The original design was indeed a thinking person's game, with rich opportunities for player directed adventure and nearly unlimited customization.  These Kosteresque features still seem to be the game's strong points.  Ironically, these strong points were badly watered down by the NGE.  The second game, bolted onto the first (or in many cases overwriting the first) deserves the critique it received.  It was rushed, it is dull and overly simplistic, and it is a WoW clone that doesn't happen to work as well as the game it copied.

    I still can't help wondering where we'd all be now if the original, thinking person's game was simply fixed and completed, and then--as the author suggests--properly marketted as an alternative to the WoW clone culture.

  • AlienovrlordAlienovrlord Member Posts: 1,525

    Jedi running around the New Hope setting.

    Nothing else needs to be said. 

    Here's to the next Star Wars MMORPG where the designers actually PAY ATTENTION to the freaking IP. 

  • AlindaleAlindale Member Posts: 134

    What we have to remember is that the OP is trying to be objective even though he/she is a beta/day 1 veteran.  Can get confusing when trying to post with a fresh view over something that you have "been there, done that."  Very well written and informative post without being biased, I couldn't have written it without being biased, so hats off to the OP for being objective.

    Many readers have pointed out how the game has changed and is not what the OP described yet the OP made reference to those changes but did not go into great detail of them (for the most part). 

    If I had not played the game thru all of the changes then I would be willing to play it based on this article.  Alas, that is not to be as I am a disgruntled vet, expatriated by the evil doings of SOE.

  • AkumaDaimyoAkumaDaimyo Member Posts: 185
    Originally posted by Alienovrlord


    Jedi running around the New Hope setting.
    Nothing else needs to be said. 
    Here's to the next Star Wars MMORPG where the designers actually PAY ATTENTION to the freaking IP. 

     

    Uh no there was FAR FAR worse than that. What about NON Human Imperials? BS. Total BS. The Empire is speciest. They hate non humans. Any non human who is actually accepted was just EU crap AND is a exception to the rule. Wookie Imperials? HA! That's so funny. That's like a Jewish Nazi. The Wookies were enslaved by the Empire. God the stuff they allowed was so dumb. Going to Endor before Return of the Jedi? Also bs. Endor wasn't discoverd by the galaxy at large for quite a while. The Empire is supposed to be building a Death Star in orbit. They are just gonna allow any old moron to go there and poke around? Um no. Hell no. Sony should have had to commit seppuku for their ultimate fail in SWG. They deserve only scorn for what they did. The game wasn't good when it came out and it's certainly not good now. I hope Bioware can save us from this travesty that could have been a great MMO.

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776
    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Well first off, let's get one thing clear here, the game is no longer a sandbox.  The elements that defined it as a sandbox were removed when they introduced the NGE patch.  You cannot discuss SWG without at least mentioning what was changed in the NGE patch.  Essentially, the two most important things that were changed. 
    One, they converted from a skill based character system to a class based one.  You used to be able to change your skillset if you so desired.  Now once a medic, always a medic.  When they did the conversion, most top level characters immediately became mid level characters.  As an example my creature master with top end skills, became a level 45 medic.  High end crafters that were essential to the game pre-NGE became fluff after the change.
    Secondly, the original game had the best crafting system in the genre, bar none.  The NGE change reduced that drastically by removing item degradation and introducing high end loot much better than you can craft.  Without items degrading and the new loot drops the market for new crafted  items dried up.  The crafters went from being the richest in the game to being the poorest.
    Granted that is all past history.  The game has to stand as it is today.  Most of the servers are pretty much ghost towns now.  There are a few active servers and new players should find out which ones they are and choose to play on them.  Avoid the empty ones, no sense playing on a server with no one to play with.  
    Me, I loved the sandbox aspects of the pre-NGE game and although I have tried many times to go back and play this game it is just a shadow of it's old self.   The role-play city I once lived in is gone, the role players have all left.   While I tried the new Beastmaster class, there is a huge grind ahead to actually use the creatures still in my inventory and with literally no one on starsider any more, it is just too hard to do it.



     

    Though I agree with most of your opinions about what was done to former swg players(I ain't no refugee I could never consider myself so easily entertained by what was a sub standard product to begin with) but to go out of his way mentioning the differences as you did would not be a re-review but a comparison, and I thought the reviewer did a good job in the first paragraph or so in explaining in brief some of the changes made to the game. I don't find the "new" swg to be as good as the reviewer seemed to and I think it could stem at least partly from the fact that I enjoyed the old system much more than what it has now become.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • WinnWinn Member CommonPosts: 24

    well i didn't read through the whole article but it's intention was made up the first paragraph: review SWG as it is. fair enough. my personal opinion of SWG right now is: c.r.a.p.

     

    NGE extinguished economy socialization and almost everything that made SWG one of the most intense and complex mmorporgs. Pre-NGE was a unique game now it's just a more colorful copy of wow which i think is the poorest game ever to hit the market.

    money makes the world go round and if Sony and Lucas would have been smart they would have maintained at least one server running the pre-nge version.

    if they would check the web for the open source project of SWG they might get an idea how much money they wasted by switching to copying wow.

     

    just my 2 cents

    faster pussycat - kill kill kill

  • ObraikObraik Member Posts: 7,261

    Overall, I thought it was a pretty fair review.  It's breath of fresh air to see a review that focuses on the game that we have today rather then focusing on the game as it was previously.

    I do have to question this tho:

    "Where the system breaks down is in Galaxies' gradual but inexorable move towards being a gear and loot-drop dependent game (as opposed to its original focus on a completely player-run economy). The new player will no doubt find it curious when all of the detail and complexity put into the crafting system and trader professions is rendered essentially moot by the combat-focused player's ability to go out and farm epic gear that beats the pants off of anything that can be crafted by players. The imbalance here is a long-suffering open wound for the game's veteran players, many of whom built their trader characters (and their fortunes) prior to the infamous New Game Enhancements that were, among other things, essentially giant, all-encompassing nerfs to player crafting."

    Even before GU5, other then weapons, there wasn't anything that could be looted that was better then a competitive crafted item.  Now with GU5, crafted weapons are now also vastly superior to anything you can get as loot.

    image

    image

  • unqlTangounqlTango Member Posts: 12

    I would have added a few more things to the RP section of the article.

     

    According to article it seems like only entertaners could RP. Entertainer however only a Social class.

    Anyone can RP, regardless of class. The tools are there for everyone to use:

    - customizable character (clothes and body) I would like to add, that in SWG having hundreds of items is not a problem, you can have 80 in your "pocket" and 50-60 in your backpack, and several hundred in your houses, even more on you vendors if you have a trader. So it is not a problem to have several sets of "useless" clothing for RP reasons only.

    - hundreds of emotes, all with 3 possible targets (targeted person or item, self, or just into the air)

    - over 100 ways to say something, chat bubble changes accordingly. Just a few: /utter /rap /parrot /foretell /recite /boast /swear /quote etc

    - character moods with animations (like you set your toon happy, he will do happy idle animations and add "said happily" to everything you say)

    - text sensitive emotes (like you say hi, your character will wave hi)

    - player housing with namable and colorable furnitures, which can be placed and turned around every axis, creating any unique scene you want. Thousands(!!!) of items which can be used as decoration. You can have several houses at the same time adn they are cheap.

    - storyteller mode (as decribed in the article)

     

    Imo no MMO will ever come even close to this detail of social and RP playstyle.

  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 787

    It's really hilarious at the number of people here saying the exact same thing about what SWG is now - a complete, and total shell of what it once was. I'm right there with all of you, being a vet player myself.

    With that said, it makes no logical sense that Smedley isn't willing to back a pre-cu server. I mean, he himself, admitted that the NGE was a quote, "disaster", yet he refuses to try and remedy the problem. If the excitement that's come about since the pr-SWG private project started is any indiciation (which, given the numbers, it certainly is), a pre-cu server would be huge success.

    The whole thing just baffles me. I understand that companies like SOE are in it for the money, and that's just it - there are  approximately 50+k users backing this project (check the numbers on a "certain" website to see for yourself), which would be more than enough for a healthy niche market. But alas, SOE has always seemed way to full of themselves to actually listen to their playerbase - it's sickening really.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents. Wether SOE is involved or not (preferrebly not), I'm looking forward to playing Pre-SWG again :).

    image
  • PapaLazarouPapaLazarou Member Posts: 502

    What was the main problem with Pre CU? Lack of content.



    What is the main problem with the NGE? The game doesn't make you feel special and Unique for playing anymore.

  • demolishIXdemolishIX Member Posts: 632
    Originally posted by PapaLazarou


    What was the main problem with Pre CU? Lack of content.



    What is the main problem with the NGE? The game doesn't make you feel special and Unique for playing anymore.



     

     Actualy it wasnt lack of content ,it was the way devs fixed bugs: "nerf what is broken and what isnt and buff a random".Many people were leaving pre-CU because of the lack of bug fixes.

     Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population.

     SWG would have become like EVE ,slow but growing subs ,if SOE focused on bugs rather then revamping the whole game and dumbing it down.

  • brezelbrezel Member Posts: 202

    if any good developer-team made a game like the good old SWG, then iam sure  the playerbase will be gigantic.

    do we have a alternative? maybe yes:  http://www.play-earthrise.com 

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,588

    As to a roleplay environment, yep I agree, I have never seen a better one, except that there is no one to roleplay with now.

    To this comment:

    "Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population."

    That is untrue, sure a few left after CU patch, but the game was very alive and vibrant just prior to NGE.  My guess was that less than 10% of the populace left after CU and many of those came back for the expansion pack that was out a week before NGE was implemented.  CU did very little to the number of players playing,  

  • demolishIXdemolishIX Member Posts: 632
    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    As to a roleplay environment, yep I agree, I have never seen a better one, except that there is no one to roleplay with now.
    To this comment:
    "Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population."


    That is untrue, sure a few left after CU patch, but the game was very alive and vibrant just prior to NGE.  My guess was that less than 10% of the populace left after CU and many of those came back for the expansion pack that was out a week before NGE was implemented.  CU did very little to the number of players playing,  



     

     You must have being playing a different game...

  • PapaLazarouPapaLazarou Member Posts: 502
    Originally posted by demolishIX

    Originally posted by PapaLazarou


    What was the main problem with Pre CU? Lack of content.



    What is the main problem with the NGE? The game doesn't make you feel special and Unique for playing anymore.



     

     Actualy it wasnt lack of content ,it was the way devs fixed bugs: "nerf what is broken and what isnt and buff a random".Many people were leaving pre-CU because of the lack of bug fixes.

     Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population.

     SWG would have become like EVE ,slow but growing subs ,if SOE focused on bugs rather then revamping the whole game and dumbing it down.



     

    Sure the game had bugs but back int he day the main complaint you heard from everyone was there was no content. Then you had people saying if the JTLS doesn't fix the problem then they're gone and after JTLS sucked soooo many people just quit the game on top of how many people quit since launch. The games release was horrible and missing sooo many features that didn't even make it in till the end of 2003 and even until JTLS the game didn't have the one feature everyone wanted from a Star Wars mmo and thats space.



    So tbh the main problem was lack of content and what everyone was complaining about, I mean even listen to The Galaxy Report from 2005 and they were saying themselves a lack of content and even into 2007 of the NGE they were still complaining about lack of content.

     

     

  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642

    What the hell? Yesterday the one word comment to its 6.5 rating  was mediocre . Which I can agree but now it is this -

    Final Score

    6.5

    Acceptable

    The NGE is far cry from Acceptable, at least in the eyes of the over 200,000 fromer SOE customers who quickly made it part of their MMO gaming history.

    Did SOE squeeze hard after reading the word mediocre because this game is truly mediocre and that is being nice.

     

    Very lame of whoever  changed it and proves that SOE's reach to the forum is true.

    Unaware of the Jestor?
    http://about.me/JestorRodo/

    Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan

  • PapaLazarouPapaLazarou Member Posts: 502
    Originally posted by demolishIX

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    As to a roleplay environment, yep I agree, I have never seen a better one, except that there is no one to roleplay with now.
    To this comment:
    "Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population."


    That is untrue, sure a few left after CU patch, but the game was very alive and vibrant just prior to NGE.  My guess was that less than 10% of the populace left after CU and many of those came back for the expansion pack that was out a week before NGE was implemented.  CU did very little to the number of players playing,  



     

     You must have being playing a different game...



     

    Oh come off it from the amount of games SWG sold I bet by the time the CU came out that only 1/4 of the people who originally bought it were still playing. Most people quit way before the CU because the game had a horrible launch and just sucked. Anyone remember all the reviews saying how much of a disatser launch was and how everyone was moaning that there was nothing to do and the game was missing half the features. It was only until the CU that did everyone stop complaining about Pre CU and start preaising it and saying how amazing it was.

    I mean I',m all for getting the old game back but all these crazy ideas of the game losing 80% of the people are stupid. Like LA said that they saw a handful of players leave but most of them all came back anyways.



    Don't forget the game is 5 years old so most people naturally leave anyways and the people on the forums only make up a tiny amount of actual players.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by JestorRodo


    What the hell? Yesterday the one word comment to its 6.5 rating  was mediocre . Which I can agree but now it is this -
    Final Score

    6.5

    Acceptable
    The NGE is far cry from Acceptable, at least in the eyes of the over 200,000 fromer SOE customers who quickly made it part of their MMO gaming history.
    Did SOE squeeze hard after reading the word mediocre because this game is truly mediocre and that is being nice.
     
    Very lame of whoever  changed it and proves that SOE's reach to the forum is true.

     

    The other half of the equation, and, the part that should be considered when saying good/bad/mediocre about SWG is value (for the money). Is SWG good, for the sub fee of $15? Most would say no (and have said no, by canceling). If for some reason, a person played 3 or more other SOE titles, would it be worth 1/4 the price of station pass? For me, no, for others, maybe, but still probably not.

    $15/mo is currently the high price (in the US at least, sorry VAT tax folks) for an MMO sub. The premium price, as it were, for a very much non-premium game.

    When you go to Mcdonalds for a burger, you know damn well you are not going to get an excellent burger, you are going to get a average/mediocre/acceptable burger. But, you are getting that mediocre burger for a non-premium/average/mediocre price. For a excellent burger, you go to a pub/tavern/steakhouse and pay a higher price, but get the much better product you were expecting.

    SWG, which is a not very good/average/mediocre (or worse) game, should not be played, simply because it not worth it for the charged price, anymore. Would you pay $9 for that Big Mac? Most people wouldn't, all other factors aside.

    Where was that in the review?

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    And now that you mention it, I would like to see one of the MMORPG.com editors answer this simple question: Is SOE a paid advertiser on this site?

    I am not wearing a tin-foil hat, but in the interestes of full disclosure, it is a fair question.

  • demolishIXdemolishIX Member Posts: 632
    Originally posted by PapaLazarou

    Originally posted by demolishIX

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    As to a roleplay environment, yep I agree, I have never seen a better one, except that there is no one to roleplay with now.
    To this comment:
    "Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population."


    That is untrue, sure a few left after CU patch, but the game was very alive and vibrant just prior to NGE.  My guess was that less than 10% of the populace left after CU and many of those came back for the expansion pack that was out a week before NGE was implemented.  CU did very little to the number of players playing,  



     

     You must have being playing a different game...



     

    Oh come off it from the amount of games SWG sold I bet by the time the CU came out that only 1/4 of the people who originally bought it were still playing. Most people quit way before the CU because the game had a horrible launch and just sucked. Anyone remember all the reviews saying how much of a disatser launch was and how everyone was moaning that there was nothing to do and the game was missing half the features. It was only until the CU that did everyone stop complaining about Pre CU and start preaising it and saying how amazing it was.

    I mean I',m all for getting the old game back but all these crazy ideas of the game losing 80% of the people are stupid. Like LA said that they saw a handful of players leave but most of them all came back anyways.



    Don't forget the game is 5 years old so most people naturally leave anyways and the people on the forums only make up a tiny amount of actual players.



     

     Yes everyone quit way before CU,that's why corolag (coronet) had 100 people+ everyday at almost any hour (except after downtime)

  • efefiaefefia Member Posts: 631
    Originally posted by demolishIX




     
     Yes everyone quit way before CU,that's why corolag (coronet) had 100 people+ everyday at almost any hour (except after downtime)



     

    Cnet was dead a long time before the CU, JTL meant that people could bypass it and they usually did. Dant MO was usually far more heavily populated due to it being the place of choice to grind from.

    There were two periods in the game that I remember a noticeable drop in players, mid-late '04 there was a definate drop off, not sure why, probably a few factors involved WoW being the main one I'd have thought. And then again right after the CU as everyone mistakenly thought that if they quit SOE would roll back. 

    The CU was actually pretty healthy (on my server at least) just prior to the NGE leak. 

     

    ...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.

  • EbenEmaelEbenEmael Member Posts: 334
    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    As to a roleplay environment, yep I agree, I have never seen a better one, except that there is no one to roleplay with now.
    To this comment:
    "Instead of fixing bugs and then adding content,SOE introduced CU wich caused about 40-50% of the current player base to bail after the first 2 weeks,NGE killed off the 85% of what was left of the CU population."


    That is untrue, sure a few left after CU patch, but the game was very alive and vibrant just prior to NGE.  My guess was that less than 10% of the populace left after CU and many of those came back for the expansion pack that was out a week before NGE was implemented.  CU did very little to the number of players playing,  

    Around 50% of my guild quit within 1 month of the CU being released. Most of the rest quit within 2 weeks of NGE. The CU signaled the start of the mass exodus  from the game.

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